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Is your favorite SEO 'expert' moaning about the latest change?

by Tina Golden
70 replies
  • SEO
    • |
If they are or they're making changes based on the latest update - FIRE THEM.

I've seen so many people on this forum the past two days crying about this update, many of them with SEO sites/services in their signatures. I'm far from an SEO expert yet I know that every single time there is a major update, the SERPs take 2-4 weeks to settle down. If I know this, shouldn't your SEO expert?

If you're on your own doing SEO, do not react to this update yet. Let things settle before you make any decisions or you will just shoot your toe off.
#change #expert #favorite #latest #moaning #seo
  • Profile picture of the author wAvision
    How do you know?
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    They Say You Can't...Show Them How
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  • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
    What if we are extremely happy that google finally hit linkspam? Cuz I am lovin it.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    I think changes could be in order.

    1) Google announced they were going after 'webspam.'
    2) Your website has been demoted.

    Based on that bit of logic, attempts to de-optimize or reduce your 'spamminess profile' would make a lot of sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by wAvision View Post

      How do you know?
      History.

      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      I think changes could be in order.

      1) Google announced they were going after 'webspam.'
      2) Your website has been demoted.

      Based on that bit of logic, attempts to de-optimize or reduce your 'spamminess profile' would make a lot of sense.
      What logic? Historically, it takes up to a month to have the SERPs settle to see the actual results of a change. Why on earth would you react before that happens?

      That's rather like the doctor ordering several tests to figure out what's wrong with you and then ordering surgery before the results are in.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        History.

        What logic? Historically, it takes up to a month to have the SERPs settle to see the actual results of a change. Why on earth would you react before that happens?

        That's rather like the doctor ordering several tests to figure out what's wrong with you and then ordering surgery before the results are in.
        Deductive logic, Tina. I have no idea where you're getting your idea that ranking changes can't be made for a month.

        People should not sit around hopelessly waiting for a 'good turn.' Fact is, many people's websites are finished forever. Google was very clear about what they targeted. If your site has been hit, you fit the profile of what they now consider to be a 'crap website.'

        Personally, I think it's a great time to buy brand new domains and get to work on ranking them. They won't have any negative backlink karma for you to deal with and they'll be easier to rank than it will be to get a penalized site back into Google's good graces.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          Deductive logic, Tina. I have no idea where you're getting your idea that ranking changes can't be made for a month.

          People should not sit around hopelessly waiting for a 'good turn.' Fact is, many people's websites are finished forever. Google was very clear about what they targeted. If your site has been hit, you fit the profile of what they now consider to be a 'crap website.'

          Personally, I think it's a great time to buy brand new domains and get to work on ranking them. They won't have any negative backlink karma for you to deal with and they'll be easier to rank than it will be to get a penalized site back into Google's good graces.
          What I will do is watch flippa and start buying hit domains for cheap. Then fix them. That is the real strategy to use right now. I did this after the Panda panic.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        What logic? Historically, it takes up to a month to have the SERPs settle to see the actual results of a change. Why on earth would you react before that happens?
        Because most people have absolutely no mathematical and/or logical thinking. No other reason.
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  • Profile picture of the author LimitLessJZ
    Isn't it an SEO's duty to always adapt to new changes?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by LimitLessJZ View Post

      Isn't it an SEO's duty to always adapt to new changes?
      Of course, but any real expert knows not to react immediately. It always takes a bit of time to have everything shake down before you can see true results. Then it's time to adapt if necessary.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Tina great post. I was going to post a thread like this but just didn't have the time. In several threads I have been telling people the exact same thing but people just do not get it.

        Its embarrassing to have to explain this to people who claim they know SEO but theres this thing called a crawler. It goes through pages and it indexes them and sends data that its been programmed to report to google's database.

        When there is a new algo and new things the crawler is programmed to record the crawler MUST BE GIVEN TIME TO ACTUALLY CRAWL THE SITES. This can take days up to a couple weeks.

        Is crazy that people are whining about results that showed within the first 24 hours. there has NEVER ever been an algo where Google could just switch a button and boom the results are what they are going to be. It s crazier that within 24-48 hours people are trying to state what the algo targets and how we might correct it because no one knows now where any result will end up settling out at.

        The latest craziness is to claim that when people see things settling down as they naturally would as more sites get crawled they make the ridiculous claim on ignorance that its manual corrections not the algo sorting things out.

        Like you said. Any SEO that doesn't get something so simple should not be trusted. Fire em.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


          When there is a new algo and new things the crawler is programmed to record the crawler MUST BE GIVEN TIME TO ACTUALLY CRAWL THE SITES. This can take days up to a couple weeks.
          The problem with your theory is that this is a link based algorithm update, not an on page algo change. Crawling your site isnt gonna do a thing for you, its the links pointing to you.

          The smart thing to do would be to start removing spam links. Even if this algo update was not about spam links, you should still remove them.

          You could say that the crawler has to crawl the pages your link is on. Even better! Try to get your link off before they crawl that site! Problem is, they have your link data already Cause link spammers were doing things like pinging backlinks and stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

            The problem with your theory is that this is a link based algorithm update, not an on page algo change. Crawling your site isnt gonna do a thing for you, its the links pointing to you.
            Rex its not a theory. Thats my point. theres an incredibly lack of understanding about how algo changes work. IF the algo change was just about reordering present data then Google could push a button and it would be stable over night. Google is obviously adding new metrics and through crawl data is adjusting as that data is sorted and processed. the fact that you see sites moving around tells you point blank that new data is being collected and modifying the rankings.

            Plus your claim that no on page factors are in this algo is unfounded and counter to the evidence. The people making such blanket statements are in fact exactly what this thread is about.

            Finally where do links appear if not on a page? Whether google is going off of present crawl data of links from pages or adjusting as new crawls are done (actually both) its still PAGES that are being looked at for the links.


            The smart thing to do would be to start removing spam links. Even if this algo update was not about spam links, you should still remove them.
            I don't see anywhere where either Tina or I dispute that but people have been getting notices of unnatural links for months. People should have been doing that long ago regardless of any algo change. Any Real SEO worthy of keeping should have addressed that long ago.
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      • Profile picture of the author OneManSEO
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        Of course, but any real expert knows not to react immediately. It always takes a bit of time to have everything shake down before you can see true results. Then it's time to adapt if necessary.
        Depends on if the expert knew they were spamming the sh*t out of the web to get ranked. Only an idiot would sit and wait to see what happens.

        I'm not one of those experts, but I was just pointing out that action should be taken if you are one of those types of IMers.

        Personally, I'm fine with the change...
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        • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
          Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

          The problem with your theory is that this is a link based algorithm update, not an on page algo change.
          I would hazzard a guess that it is not as simple as this.

          When Cutts & Co issue a message they are not going to give out all details.

          Common sense says they are getting more sophisticated and mixing things up at the same time, even if they aren't getting things right in many cases....for the moment at least :-(
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Even if this update won't stick it shows what Google's plans are. Thats why it's wise to alter the services based on that. Thing is that I had a few slightly doubtfull links in my packages that worked awesomely well. Now I replaced them with even better stuff.

      So I think it's pretty bogus to say that an seo providers is not an expert when he adapts. The SEO providers who aren't changing a thing are the ones you should be afraid of. Especially on this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by LimitLessJZ View Post

      Isn't it an SEO's duty to always adapt to new changes?

      Yes, it is the SEO's duty to adapt, but not to over-react.

      Real SEO professionals will be following the same strategy that Tina is endorsing.

      Why?

      It is simple. It is the SEO's duty to be able to rank you in Google, in relation to the realities that are on the ground now.

      But in order to be able to help you to improve your rankings, they must UNDERSTAND what is going on and how to game it.

      A smart SEO person will spend the next 3-4 days, perhaps even the next 2 weeks, analyzing what has changed, trying to understand what has happened and what has changed.

      Once the SEO professional believes that they understand the change, it becomes their job to theorize about "how to adapt", then to "test" their hypothesis.

      Real professionals try to apply their trade much as a research scientist investigates how chemical changes can affect the human body -- theorize, test the theory, measure results, then implement across the board.

      Right now, real SEO professionals are not whining in forums about the most recent changes. Instead, they are analyzing what is and what was, trying to grasp what is now.

      Once they believe they understand what happened, they will hypothesize a solution, then run a number of tests to see if they have hypothesized it correctly.

      Based on the results of the tests that they have run, then they will adjust their activities to match "how to game Google in the now."

      Ah... But many of you will ask "what makes me think I am so damned smart..." LOL

      I worked as a Professional SEO from 2005 to 2009. I got out of the industry when Google implemented "personalized search".

      I figured that if my clients could not replicate on their computers what I was able to see on my computer, then staying in the industry would be very frustrating.

      I got out on my own terms.

      While I was working in the industry, my clients paid me anywhere from $3,000 to $15,000 per month to optimize their sites.

      Maybe I should not be speaking about others in this industry, but what I have laid out above is exactly how I would be handling the current situation, if I was still in that industry.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        [B]
        Right now, real SEO professionals are not whining in forums about the most recent changes. Instead, they are analyzing what is and what was, trying to grasp what is now.
        I suspect the real impetus for the whining has less to do with their sites falling as the realization that the only way they knew how to do SEO is either gone or almost gone. If you had or have more than one kind of shoe you don't go crying at the foot of the hill you need to climb when the asphalt road runs out . You just put on your mountain climbing shoes pull out the rope and continue the journey.

        IF however you have nothing but a piece of string and slippers then you sit at the end of the road and whine that its all over and how unfair it is that google expects you buy shoes, get rope and learn another way of using your feet besides walking on asphalt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
    I dont know Tina, I kinda agree with mosthost on this one. Google told us they were going to do this a month ago. This algo targeted links, just like they said it would.

    Historically, it doesnt take a month, maybe a couple of weeks...maybe. In most of the niches that I watch, all fluctuations have stopped. There will be tweaks and roll outs, but if a site has linkspam backlinks, that site WAS the target of this algo update.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

      I dont know Tina, I kinda agree with mosthost on this one. Google told us they were going to do this a month ago. This algo targeted links, just like they said it would.

      Historically, it doesnt take a month, maybe a couple of weeks...maybe. In most of the niches that I watch, all fluctuations have stopped. There will be tweaks and roll outs, but if a site has linkspam backlinks, that site WAS the target of this algo update.
      I think you should always be avoiding spammy links and other spamalicious tactics - no argument there. And I said 2 to 4 weeks for the 'dance' to see the full effects. My point is that spam links have always been something Google didn't like. If that was the target of the latest change, good for them.

      My post wasn't aimed at those who knew they were using spammy tactics. I'm talking to the people who tried to do everything right but found their rankings tanked this week.

      The same thing happened when Panda first rolled out. People with decent sites saw their rankings bottom out and they panicked, making changes willy-nilly. Some of them never recovered because they overcompensated before the shakedown settled.

      All I'm saying is that if you've been doing everything to the best of your ability to try to provide users with an optimal experience and have not been trying to do anything spammy, then wait to see how it settles before over-reacting.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mister Rex
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        I think you should always be avoiding spammy links and other spamalicious tactics - no argument there. And I said 2 to 4 weeks for the 'dance' to see the full effects. My point is that spam links have always been something Google didn't like. If that was the target of the latest change, good for them.

        My post wasn't aimed at those who knew they were using spammy tactics. I'm talking to the people who tried to do everything right but found their rankings tanked this week.

        The same thing happened when Panda first rolled out. People with decent sites saw their rankings bottom out and they panicked, making changes willy-nilly. Some of them never recovered because they overcompensated before the shakedown settled.

        All I'm saying is that if you've been doing everything to the best of your ability to try to provide users with an optimal experience and have not been trying to do anything spammy, then wait to see how it settles before over-reacting.
        Good response!

        Tina, you seem smart and a voice of reason. Watch Flippa. People are going to be trying to dump their busted sites for cheap. Since you know what is going to happen with regaining rankings, you stand to gain a lot when the sites start coming back.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Okay that last post makes a lot more sense indeed. In my own packages I used some web2.0's and profiles created with senukex and we also did some forumpost spamming (which worked pretty well). Now that I saw a site tank hard that had a lot of forumpost spamming I decided to remove that completely and step away far from Senukex as well. Not that senuke links really hurt, but they just don't work, so waste of time really.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

        I think you should always be avoiding spammy links and other spamalicious tactics - no argument there. And I said 2 to 4 weeks for the 'dance' to see the full effects. My point is that spam links have always been something Google didn't like. If that was the target of the latest change, good for them.

        My post wasn't aimed at those who knew they were using spammy tactics. I'm talking to the people who tried to do everything right but found their rankings tanked this week.

        The same thing happened when Panda first rolled out. People with decent sites saw their rankings bottom out and they panicked, making changes willy-nilly. Some of them never recovered because they overcompensated before the shakedown settled.

        All I'm saying is that if you've been doing everything to the best of your ability to try to provide users with an optimal experience and have not been trying to do anything spammy, then wait to see how it settles before over-reacting.
        That's true. But if you've been naughty you need to consider cleaning up your act ASAP. Mister X makes a valid point: Flippa is about to be even more flooded by domains that should be a bargain, especially if you know how to improve them.

        There are probably a lot of defeated webmasters out there dumping sites without really considering they could come back.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

      I dont know Tina, I kinda agree with mosthost on this one. Google told us they were going to do this a month ago. This algo targeted links, just like they said it would.

      Historically, it doesnt take a month, maybe a couple of weeks...maybe. In most of the niches that I watch, all fluctuations have stopped. There will be tweaks and roll outs, but if a site has linkspam backlinks, that site WAS the target of this algo update.
      Rex no doubt alot of marketers sites are not coming back. Some things are obvious and as Tina pointed out were known long ago. If you are sitting around waiting for spammy links to once again rule then you are in for a rude awakening. However claiming to know everything you need to know at this point and how sites will be ranked is just premature and certainly as Tina indicated all the whining is just baseless.

      The silliest thing is all these people saying how Google messed up because this or that site is ranking for the time being. Can't know that until at least 4-5 days not 48 hours.
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    • Profile picture of the author marknel
      Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

      I dont know Tina, I kinda agree with mosthost on this one. Google told us they were going to do this a month ago. This algo targeted links, just like they said it would.

      Historically, it doesnt take a month, maybe a couple of weeks...maybe. In most of the niches that I watch, all fluctuations have stopped. There will be tweaks and roll outs, but if a site has linkspam backlinks, that site WAS the target of this algo update.
      How do you define linkspam backlinks..
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
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        Originally Posted by marknel View Post

        How do you define linkspam backlinks..
        For example:

        1000 forumprofiles
        1000 wiki links
        1000 comments

        In general, too many of the same is never good.

        Or you could get many diffrent links, like 25 of this, 25 of that etc. or you can just focus on max 50 or 100 links and making these links strong with tiered backlinking.

        Most people think you need many links, but often a dozen is enough already, it all depends what you do with them. Although be carefull with tiering them up, make sure you do some tests to see if the links stick, otherwise it's a big waste of your time.

        The best solution is to buy a couple domains and put them on seperate hostings + whois privacy. This way you can get 100% relevant links and make those domains/sites as strong as you want.

        If you don't like to deal with that you could outsource it to someone for cheap

        Or you could hire a "real" uhumm expert and pay professional fees
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        • Profile picture of the author marknel
          Or would you say its over optimization using narrow strategies..(let me put it straight) Im worried about 50-100 social profile links that have been manually made, are they indicative of linkspam and should I remove them ....what should be my course of action now...sorry Im not lifting up my hands or buying a new domain.
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
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            Originally Posted by marknel View Post

            Or would you say its over optimization using narrow strategies..(let me put it straight) Im worried about 50-100 social profile links that have been manually made, are they indicative of linkspam and should I remove them ....what should be my course of action now...sorry Im not lifting up my hands or buying a new domain.
            I wouldn't worry about them and if that's all you have on backlinks I would just wait a while and see what happens. I can't put a spamtag on 50-100 social profile links.
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            • Profile picture of the author orebian
              SEO really hasn't changed that much. It's just that gaming the system is getting harder and harder.
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  • Profile picture of the author ketset
    Great title to this thread and yes I get an email once a week saying this has changed and this has changed and we need to go down this route now, very funny how it seems to change so quickly in the SEO world. Be careful who you pick!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    Post-Panda, it took my main site 25 days to bounce back.

    Tina's logic seems sound to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Seo On
    all my site still there and improved in the serp because i don't put adsense in my sites
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    If you're site dropped hard it means that most of the links are crawled already so not very much chance you'll get back.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    I wonder how Google is handling links from deindexed websites. Are they still 'holding it against you' even though the site is gone from their index?
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Very good point, Tina. If you haven't made any changes to a particular site in a while, and all of a sudden you start making a bunch of changes right after the lastest G update started, then that is a HUGE red flag to Google right there that you are trying to game their system. If you do that then IMO you are begging to have your site permanently de-indexed.

      Google is not dumb... they know that their search results don't make any sense right now, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are doing this strictly for the reason I mentioned above.

      My advice for anyone who's site/s got hit would be to not make ANY out-of-the-ordinary changes to your site for at least a month. If it hasn't bounced back by then, then start making small changes to it spread out over time.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

    If they are or they're making changes based on the latest update - FIRE THEM.

    I've seen so many people on this forum the past two days crying about this update, many of them with SEO sites/services in their signatures. I'm far from an SEO expert yet I know that every single time there is a major update, the SERPs take 2-4 weeks to settle down. If I know this, shouldn't your SEO expert?

    If you're on your own doing SEO, do not react to this update yet. Let things settle before you make any decisions or you will just shoot your toe off.
    Actually, I would go a step farther. I wouldn't wait to see if they are making changes. If your site got hammered by this latest change and you have been working with just one SEO, I would probably fire them.

    Most people on this forum do not hire real SEO's though, so this really doesn't apply here. Most just hire low quality backlink providers.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Im sorry but theres far too much common sense and not enough irrational panic in this thread.

    2 stars.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ashera
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Im sorry but theres far too much common sense and not enough irrational panic in this thread.

      2 stars.
      Haha, John hit the nail on the head here.

      This is by far the most solid post I have seen in days. So many people freak at the slightest change and think the sky is falling. Google isn't perfect - and just like any change over the next few weeks they will do their best to restore a little bit of sanity to the latest changes.

      edit:

      Google is officially calling the latest update "Penguin"

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  • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
    They shouldn't be moaning anyway because they would know this isn't the update.
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  • Profile picture of the author RevSEO
    Amen Tina, its a bit disgusting at how many people are proclaimed experts, but the slightest algorithm update or "Panda refresh" and all hell has frozen over.

    No SEO is not dying.
    No this algorithm update isn't done "refreshing".

    Don't cry, call it quits, 301 your domain, quit your services, or cry to Mommy because of a sudden drop in your rankings. Life will go on, and there's a good chance you'll see things bounce back to normal soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Welsh Warrior
    Just want to side with the "it's not complete yet" side. I have one site that I haven't backlinked yet, been up for 3 months. It was at #30 for it's keyword. Currently it seems to bounce between #3 and off the charts (my software only checks to #200), and is literally changing every hour.

    A number of other sites are bouncing like crazy, whilst others have stayed the same with small boosts or falls and aren't changing much.

    Obviously simply building quality content at this time is the best bet (ok, not obvious, I am far from an SEO expert) - just keep building, let Google see you're putting good stuff up and ride out the changes.

    I'm not going to sit down and take stock of where this change has left me for a couple of weeks yet
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    • Profile picture of the author Architex
      I agree you need to wait a little. My site traffic dropped off the map yesterday and today it is back. Not all the way but most of the way. I think there is still some shaking out that is happening. Because if a site with 1 back link and no social signals can rank for Dallas architects on the first page that is a pretty crappy result.

      I also have pages that are ranking for Kw they have no business ranking for. One example is I have a search results page from my site that is for 4 bedroom house plans and it is ranking for 3 bedroom house plans. That is not a good result if you ask me from a users perspective.
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      • Profile picture of the author scottmacair
        My guess is things may settle down. The serps looks crazy at the moment but i think things will make more sense in a few days.

        Matt Cutts has been indicating for a while that changes are coming. Over optimisation penalties, leveling the playing field, rewarding sites that are not written for bots etc etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author JROC777
          I recently took some advice a couple months back that may have caused me to be hit with a significant rank drop. I created multiple web 2.0 accounts - webs, tumbler, insanejournal, hubpages, squidoo actually about ten of them in total. These all had anchor text links back to my main site. Gave a great boost in position for the last 2 months but now I've dropped to page 12 to 18 and beyond for over a dozen keywords that I was previously on page 1 for. The site is about 6 years old and had been on page one for multiple keywords for years and only experienced a slight 1 or 2 position drop when panda hit. I suspect this is the reason for my demise but may be too early to delete those accounts in hopes of recovery.

          To clarify I'm not an seo pro I'm just guessing and looking for someone wiser to confirm my suspicions. I read learn and apply seo from what I learn on forums like this and its done pretty well for me over the years.
          Would these web 2.0 links be considered webspam?
          What about croppy backlinks in general I don't really understand how you can remove a croppy link that's already pointing to your site and with all the talk about negative seo and intentionally hurting each other I'm kind of feeling at a loss for what to do here.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    The next time Google says they're planning on updating, it's time to grab your ankles
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    • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      The next time Google says they're planning on updating, it's time to grab your ankles

      I'll be grabbing something else next time, my ankles have already worn out with this one
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  • Profile picture of the author colourofspring
    Personally, I think it's a great time to buy brand new domains and get to work on ranking them. They won't have any negative backlink karma for you to deal with and they'll be easier to rank than it will be to get a penalized site back into Google's good graces.
    These kinds of sites are sitting ducks for negative SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Architex
      Originally Posted by colourofspring View Post

      These kinds of sites are sitting ducks for negative SEO.
      How about if I have an 11 year old site that has never had any linking done to it? Will that be affected by Neg SEO?
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    Google confirmed the update is fully rolled out. You can probably stop waiting for "things to settle down" now.
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  • Profile picture of the author poppa5502
    Tina your so right mrs lady...there is no need to panic and go jumping off a building over this. We should be use to this by now since its been going on forever. We all know its coming so lets just sit back and cross our fingers.

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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Originally Posted by Tina Golden View Post

    If they are or they're making changes based on the latest update - FIRE THEM.


    Tina, It would be cool if this WAS a seo problem... which is NOT. This is way bigger then that. It's a new move towards "Go PPC or go home".

    But I'll wait for people to figure it out in a couple months, or maybe a year - the exact time some Warriors will take to understand backlinks can really hurt Google rankings (since many of you are still in denial).

    April what? 26th? 2012... Ok, see ya guys in a year to bring this one back alive. Bet in a year MOST people in this forum will be discussing anti-trust laws and "how google is killing the internet"...
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  • Profile picture of the author cashtree
    Playing Google's game is lame, who wants to wait weeks, every day that goes by is money that could be lost because of Google's NON-SENSE. They need to be removed from their monopoly and other avenues take over. Bing facebook, whatever let them climb, google sucks.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

      Playing Google's game is lame, who wants to wait weeks, every day that goes by is money that could be lost because of Google's NON-SENSE. They need to be removed from their monopoly and other avenues take over. Bing facebook, whatever let them climb, google sucks.
      The problem is Bing & Facebook suck more than Google.

      Bing is ghost town.

      Facebook will be belly up in less than 10 years unless they build something 1K times better than the crap they dish out now.
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      • Profile picture of the author cashtree
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        The problem is Bing & Facebook suck more than Google.

        Bing is ghost town.

        Facebook will be belly up in less than 10 years unless they build something 1K times better than the crap they dish out now.
        Bing is NOT a ghost town and it does NOT suck. They been getting market share from google, and It's results have shown to be better than google on many levels. Yahoo is bing powered, facebook is bing powered, win7 phone is bing, IE is bing, I believe verizons deal with them is default bing. Xbox probably uses bing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      Deductive logic, Tina. I have no idea where you're getting your idea that ranking changes can't be made for a month.

      People should not sit around hopelessly waiting for a 'good turn.' Fact is, many people's websites are finished forever. Google was very clear about what they targeted. If your site has been hit, you fit the profile of what they now consider to be a 'crap website.'

      Personally, I think it's a great time to buy brand new domains and get to work on ranking them. They won't have any negative backlink karma for you to deal with and they'll be easier to rank than it will be to get a penalized site back into Google's good graces.
      You are completely wrong and Tina has a pretty good idea ofw hat she is talking about. If you do some research you will see there are a TON of crap sites ranking right now for some reason, but anybody that has studied any type of SEO at all knows this won't last and in about a month we will see what Google was really trying to do.

      Originally Posted by Mister Rex View Post

      What I will do is watch flippa and start buying hit domains for cheap. Then fix them. That is the real strategy to use right now. I did this after the Panda panic.
      Brilliant!!

      Originally Posted by Kelly Verge View Post

      Post-Panda, it took my main site 25 days to bounce back.

      Tina's logic seems sound to me.
      Me too....this seems about normal.

      Originally Posted by Seo On View Post

      all my site still there and improved in the serp because i don't put adsense in my sites
      Adsense has very little to do with your ranking.

      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      If you're site dropped hard it means that most of the links are crawled already so not very much chance you'll get back.
      This is a false statement too!

      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      Im sorry but theres far too much common sense and not enough irrational panic in this thread.

      2 stars.
      Just made me laugh John!

      Originally Posted by cashtree View Post

      Playing Google's game is lame, who wants to wait weeks, every day that goes by is money that could be lost because of Google's NON-SENSE. They need to be removed from their monopoly and other avenues take over. Bing facebook, whatever let them climb, google sucks.
      I agree....google has never been my main source of traffic and I have never tried to rank super high with them. I rank, however, with many sites and pages, but not because that is my main goal.

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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger View Post


        This is a false statement too!
        Absolutely not, for example my own site got hit cause I used article distribution at English sites with dutch anchor txt in it. That was exactly what this update was after. Matt even explained it on his blog with images to illustrate.

        No way my site will get back. Others perhaps but with this site it just ain't gonna happen and I am pretty sure 90% of the sites won't come back.

        The sites with a clean linkprofile, yeah I beleive Google made some what of a mistake there but same like the previous posted said: If you have a bad backlink profile. Just forget it for the next couple of months, many people dropped from page 1 exactly to page 5, I am sure this is a penalty that will last a few months at least.

        Oh before we get nonsense talk like: How can a SEO provider have a bad linkprofile? First this site is old already, secondly I test all kind of stuff on my own site first and it held top 3 positions for a lot of strong keywords. But I don't worry I just buy a new domain and move on.
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      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger View Post

        You are completely wrong and Tina has a pretty good idea ofw hat she is talking about. If you do some research you will see there are a TON of crap sites ranking right now for some reason, but anybody that has studied any type of SEO at all knows this won't last and in about a month we will see what Google was really trying to do.
        LOL, No, I'm not completely wrong. Tina was totally off the mark, as was proven by the post from Search Engine Land.

        The update is over. If you were targeted as 'webspam' you need to buy a new domain. Or you can look for a new career.

        Pretending that it's going to 'take a month' for things to 'settle down' is useless advice.
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          LOL, No, I'm not completely wrong. Tina was totally off the mark, as was proven by the post from Search Engine Land.

          The update is over. If you were targeted as 'webspam' you need to buy a new domain. Or you can look for a new career.

          Pretending that it's going to 'take a month' for things to 'settle down' is useless advice.
          There might be some alters in the alghoritm the next weeks cause I do beleive some sites are hit without good reason, or the owners are plain lieing about it, not very uncommon either.

          The self-proclaimed experts who say it takes Google a month to crawl the whole web should also do a reality check. Probably this are the same people that charge their clients $1000/month and making these statements to buy theirselves time to try to correct the downfall. If it took Google a month to crawl stuff I wouldn't get awesome results within 4 days for one of my clients that runs a micro niche emperiom. Yes over and over again I get him page 1 results and each single time it doesn't take longer then 3-4 days. He is increasing his production hugely cause he finally found someone that does bring him results instantly.

          What the "experts" achieve in results for $1k/month I achieve with $100/month for client sites who have a normal linkprofile or brand new sites. So don't start about SEO-expert talk to me please.

          (oh btw this is mostly not pointed at you Mosthost, I just had to write it down) You are more right then most of the "WF veterans"
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          • Profile picture of the author mosthost
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            There might be some alters in the alghoritm the next weeks cause I do beleive some sites are hit without good reason, or the owners are plain lieing about it, not very uncommon either.

            The self-proclaimed experts who say it takes Google a month to crawl the whole web should also do a reality check. Probably this are the same people that charge their clients $1000/month and making these statements to buy theirselves time to try to correct the downfall.

            What the "experts" achieve in results for $1k/month I achieve with $100/month for client sites who have a normal linkprofile or brand new sites.
            I'm not saying that Google might not 'shuffle' some results. They have before. That said, I think that if your website plummeted in rankings after a rankings update that was specifically launched to remove 'webspam,' you have been caught up in the net.

            Hoping that the good old days is not much of a strategy. Of course SEO experts tell you to wait....and wait....and wait.....and wait. They are charging monthly after all!
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

              Hoping that the good old days is not much of a strategy. Of course SEO experts tell you to wait....and wait....and wait.....and wait. They are charging monthly after all!
              EXACTLY my point as well!

              Good luck with buying yourself time folks!
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  • Profile picture of the author faceblogger
    People who are moaning about the changes ain't SEO experts. They will never be
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikeaha
    So I see 2 camps in general from reading this thread!
    1) Hang tight, we haven't seen the end of this. It takes a few days for things to settle
    2) Get moving and do something NOW. Fix your links and recover as quickly as possible!
    Well, I think that both sides have valid points. Here is why:
    Only you know what you did for your sites as far as back linking goes. If you did it the "clean" way (we can have a whole different conversation about this) and there is no reason that your sites should have been annihilated by G then you should hang tight! After all, G was pretty specific as to what they were targeting. If you are sure that you do not fall into this category then wait a week or two.
    On the other hand, if you know that you paid for 2500 forum links, a 5000 Xrummer gig, and submitted a 300 word spun article to 2000 article directories, all for $2.99 well, chances are you were hit by the algo for good reason! maybe you should start acting right now!
    The problem is if you fall in the grey area between these 2 extremes. Lets say you paid a fiver Gig for (insert your back link strategy here) and they used some automated garbage, or a few years back you submitted your spun articles to 200 directories. Lets also say that in general you have done things the right way, guest blogging etc then how can you be sure?
    In this grey area, I advocate for a wait and see approach. I also think that most of us fall in this category.
    Anyhow, I subscribe to the OP on this one. We're in the SEO business right? A long term business. What does it hurt to wait 2 or 3 weeks?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    My penalised sites came back to rankings this week, but most likely because the penalties sort of expired or something... Not quite ranking as high as before I got hit (in February!), but back up to 100-150 uniques/day from Google (used to be 200+/day).

    That being said, I have completely changed my whole SEO strategy over the last few months. No more penalties for me (unless a competitor nukes me).
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  • Profile picture of the author markowe
    Another way we know this update isn't done yet is that many sites aren't cached. I am seeing no cache even for sites that were always cached up to the minute by Google. So the monster is still munching through the data. Also, one of those white-hat authority sites of mine has had its traffic slashed by half: the reason? Half its pages aren't even indexed currently. Anyone heard of sites being half-de indexed?

    I am just going to carry on what I was doing, in fact I rolled put a new, more "authoritative" theme on that one site yesterday, quite independently of this new update. You really think the algo its having a top-level meeting with itself, saying, oo look, he made some changes during the update, he must be a Web spammer?!

    I just don't sweat these updates, and I think many that do are just showing they are one-trick ponies.
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  • Profile picture of the author kickmoney
    Good Thread.

    Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    The problem is Bing & Facebook suck more than Google.

    Bing is ghost town.

    Facebook will be belly up in less than 10 years unless they build something 1K times better than the crap they dish out now.
    Good call.

    Moreover.

    How many threads have been all over the IM forums linking to that ONE example in the serps "how to make money online"

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  • Profile picture of the author marksmit
    What ever the updates is from Google is to refine search to best quality. Don't go against the basic of SEO. Try to stick to the guidelines of Google then there is nothing to fear.
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  • Profile picture of the author hicksdelight
    Interesting thread.

    I am seeing a lot of profile links and twitter.com/yourkeywordhere and other spam techniques ranking VERY well, and a lot of good sites have tanked and taken over by spam.

    It's clear Google have not found a middle ground yet, or if they have, then the above example I just gave makes no sense.

    I dunno, I'm off to get drunk, anyone in?
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