Matt Cutts at SES About the Next Penguin Update

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  • SEO
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It seems Matt Cutts at the SES San Francisco yesterday informed that there will be some major changes coming in the next Penguin update that won't be liked by the webmasters.

Here is the link,

Google's Next Penguin Update Will Be "Jarring & Jolting"
#cutts #matt #penguin #ses #update
  • Profile picture of the author grover69
    Oh man, here we go again. I really wish Google didn't dominate the search engine game so much. I would love some competition in this space.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by grover69 View Post

      Oh man, here we go again. I really wish Google didn't dominate the search engine game so much. I would love some competition in this space.
      Hahahahaha, it seems SEO is only getting easier yes


      EDIT:
      Oh lol I am completely misunderstanding what you said there. You want competition between the search engines, I thought you want competition in Google after they take down all the crappy sites cause it's getting to easy now. Anyway just focus on strong links and throw all software out of the window and you should be fine.
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    • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
      Originally Posted by grover69 View Post

      Oh man, here we go again. I really wish Google didn't dominate the search engine game so much. I would love some competition in this space.
      I get a lot of traffic (not as much as Google) from Bing. It's not like they are taking over the world, but it's a start.

      As for the news? I'm so far removed from SEO these days that I could really care less. Most of my visits come from twitter, facebook, and blog exchange style widgets. Something for that the "sick... and tired" (Cosby anyone?) should start looking into.

      BP
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Google should be more concerned with delivering good, relevant results than trying to intimidate SEOers and webmasters.
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    • Profile picture of the author dbx3
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Google should be more concerned with delivering good, relevant results than trying to intimidate SEOers and webmasters.
      Thank you! This exactly. I wonder how hard we will be hit though ? ]:
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      • Profile picture of the author cjreynolds
        You can run, but you can't hide!!



        ...it's only a matter of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author ilee
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Google should be more concerned with delivering good, relevant results than trying to intimidate SEOers and webmasters.
      These two things often go hand in hand. Some people won't even twitch at the thought of a new google animal update simply because they've got nothing to be scared about.

      Its the ones using automated methods trying to earn a fast buck that will be penalized.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by ichl13 View Post

        These two things often go hand in hand. Some people won't even twitch at the thought of a new google animal update simply because they've got nothing to be scared about.

        Its the ones using automated methods trying to earn a fast buck that will be penalized.
        Sorry, but I don't agree. Google shouldn't be trying to intimidate people, which is all this latest comment does. And they seem to agree with me, with Cutts backing off his statement a short time later.

        BTW, isn't it ironic that Google itself is an automated scraper site, using the content of others to make a fast buck?
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        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Sorry, but I don't agree. Google shouldn't be trying to intimidate people, which is all this latest comment does. And they seem to agree with me, with Cutts backing off his statement a short time later.

          BTW, isn't it ironic that Google itself is an automated scraper site, using the content of others to make a fast buck?
          Matt just likes to throw a bit fear into the group, provocating things a bit, why not

          Not much ironic about it, they are a search engine, what else they have to show? Empty pages with only url's of sites, now that makes a great user experience :rolleyes:

          Everyone should love Google, they give us a great platform to make a lot of money when doing things smart, it would be so much nastyer if we had to rank in tons of different search engines all scattered over the place.
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          • Profile picture of the author JEasy
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Matt just likes to throw a bit fear into the group, provocating things a bit, why not

            Not much ironic about it, they are a search engine, what else they have to show? Empty pages with only url's of sites, now that makes a great user experience :rolleyes:

            Everyone should love Google, they give us a great platform to make a lot of money when doing things smart, it would be so much nastyer if we had to rank in tons of different search engines all scattered over the place.
            Since you provide SEO services, I'm willing to bet that the end of all of this you are going to have hurt feelings because in Google's eyes you are the enemy. It's you versus the Google Algo everyday, and they're always tweaking to find a way to close you out.

            The article referred to Cutts as "The Head of Search Spam". If that's his actual title, then that should tell you something.
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            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by JEasy View Post

              Since you provide SEO services, I'm willing to bet that the end of all of this you are going to have hurt feelings because in Google's eyes you are the enemy. It's you versus the Google Algo everyday, and they're always tweaking to find a way to close you out.

              The article referred to Cutts as "The Head of Search Spam". If that's his actual title, then that should tell you something.
              I might be the enemy but I outsmart them. Don't take that like I think I'm smarter then Google cause I'm definitely not, they have top engineers. But out smarting an algorithm doesn't take any rocket science.

              The reason most people have a hard time with these updates (me included, it's only recently that I smartened up), is cause it kills their one click button systems to get rich. A Scrapebox / AMR / Xrumer / BMD blast won't cut it anymore, and even if you can rank with it it's only temporarily.

              Either way, I don't fear any new update cause what I do is okay, maybe not approved but there is nothing Google can do about it without harming millions of innocent sites as well.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Matt just likes to throw a bit fear into the group, provocating things a bit, why not

            Not much ironic about it, they are a search engine, what else they have to show? Empty pages with only url's of sites, now that makes a great user experience :rolleyes:

            Everyone should love Google, they give us a great platform to make a lot of money when doing things smart, it would be so much nastyer if we had to rank in tons of different search engines all scattered over the place.
            It's ironic in the context of the post I responded to.

            And I don't need to love Google and can disagree with Cutts' tone and still make money from them. It isn't either/or.
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        • Profile picture of the author rahmanpaidar
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          BTW, isn't it ironic that Google itself is an automated scraper site, using the content of others to make a fast buck?
          Fast buck?

          Kurt, do you know the history behind the Google Inc company and
          what hard times they had in early days?

          Competing Yahoo, and all other search engines at that time was not
          an easy task to be done with the empty hands of only two persons.
          Yahoo was and still is a monster in its name.

          Employing and managing thousands of people, and at the same time
          developing the software and algorithm was not an easy task to be done,
          apart from competing in the market, fighting spam and cleaning up the web.

          How many of us can achieve to do these and make a new brand like
          Google from the dust in 10 years?
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          • Profile picture of the author JEasy
            Originally Posted by rahmanpaidar View Post

            Fast buck?

            Kurt, do you know the history behind the Google Inc company and
            what hard times they had in early days?

            Competiting Yahoo, and all other search engines at that time was not
            an easy task to be done with the empty hands of only two persons.
            Yahoo was and still is a monster in its name.

            Employing and managing thousands of people, and at the same time
            developing the software and algorithm was not an easy task to be done,
            apart from competiting in the market, fighting spam and cleaning up the web.

            How many of us can achieve to do these and make a new brand like
            Google from the dust in 10 years?
            poor Google
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by rahmanpaidar View Post

            Fast buck?

            Kurt, do you know the history behind the Google Inc company and
            what hard times they had in early days?

            Competiting Yahoo, and all other search engines at that time was not
            an easy task to be done with the empty hands of only two persons.
            Yahoo was and still is a monster in its name.

            Employing and managing thousands of people, and at the same time
            developing the software and algorithm was not an easy task to be done,
            apart from competiting in the market, fighting spam and cleaning up the web.

            How many of us can achieve to do these and make a new brand like
            Google from the dust in 10 years?
            I'm fully aware of Google's history. I've been doing SEO since before Googe existed.

            Google hardly competed with Yahoo in the early days. As a matter of fact, it was Yahoo's use of Google SERPs that got Google over the hump. A big mistake on Yahoo's part, IMO.

            Google was also a "media darling", getting tons of free press because the media loved them, despite Hotbot (Inktomi) equaling or beating Google in every independant search test at the time.

            My use of "fast buck" was in quotes because the phrase was used by the person I quoted. Did you miss that?

            BTW, your two comments that I bolded above seem to contradict each other. The latter seems to agree with the "fast buck" point.

            Now back on topic...did you notice Cutts walked back his statement shotly after? Seems Google agrees with me that they shouldn't be trying to intimidate SEOers and web masters.
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            • Profile picture of the author rahmanpaidar
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              I'm fully aware of Google's history. I've been doing SEO since before Googe existed.

              Google hardly competed with Yahoo in the early days. As a matter of fact, it was Yahoo's use of Google SERPs that got Google over the hump. A big mistake on Yahoo's part, IMO.

              Google was also a "media darling", getting tons of free press because the media loved them, despite Hotbot (Inktomi) equaling or beating Google in every independant search test at the time.

              My use of "fast buck" was in quotes because the phrase was used by the person I quoted. Did you miss that?

              BTW, your two comments that I bolded above seem to contradict each other. The latter seems to agree with the "fast buck" point.
              Kurt, It's matter of how you interpret that comment
              I was reffering to how hard it is to make a new brand.

              I think you got that inversely as fast money making


              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Now back on topic...did you notice Cutts walked back his statement shotly after? Seems Google agrees with me that they shouldn't be trying to intimidate SEOers and web masters.
              I agree with you. I was not quoting that part of your comment.
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            • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Google hardly competed with Yahoo in the early days. As a matter of fact, it was Yahoo's use of Google SERPs that got Google over the hump. A big mistake on Yahoo's part, IMO.
              Times like this I wished there was a like button here!

              Thumbs Up!!!

              Kurt, you need spend more time in the SEO sub-forum, you full of SEOwisdom man!
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
    Just reaffirms what I've been thinking for a while...

    Google is no longer a viable, long-term source of organic traffic. Time spent dancing to Google's ever-changing beat is much better spent strengthening your reach through other sources (social media, email, article syndication, etc).
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    • Profile picture of the author FIP
      Penguin and Panda decimated my sites. As a result I chose to not play the google game. I now do not try to meet google requirements. It forced me to change direction and look at other methods in internet marketing.

      If you are trying to please google then are you being reactive to a changing attitude and algorithym and wasting precious time on finding other ways?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
        Originally Posted by FIP View Post

        If you are trying to please google then are you being reactive to a changing attitude and algorithym and wasting precious time on finding other ways?
        Reacting to change and learning from past mistakes is what separates winners from losers. I'm ranking easier than ever before (and this time, hopefully, for a long long time).

        Everything worthwhile takes hard work.
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  • Profile picture of the author marketinguk
    Yep i've been saying this for some time now it really isn't a viable business model to be honest. I used to rely too much on SEO and with the Penguin update I got hammered overnight. This was actually good news this happened to me as I realised I didn't actually have a business.

    This is another wake up call for people to realise they should try and stop relying on google traffic so much IMO.

    Joel
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    • Profile picture of the author Cory Friedman
      After years of 'stressing out' about trying to receive quick and easy traffic from Google with the absolute minimum of work, I have come to the following conclusions:

      1. Trying to game Google is without doubt a losing battle

      2. SEO is a Long-Term traffic getting activity

      3. If you make it your goal to provide fresh, consistent, genuinely helpful and valuable content (along with even just the basic 'social signals') on a consistent basis and stick to it the traffic will come and you won't have to worry about playing any 'Google Games'.

      So in general, just do 'good' for others and forget about fast results. From what I've seen and heard the most successful SEO'ers are the ones who are the least desperate for immediate results and treat it as a long term investment.

      This is why outsourcing solid SEO can be such a great way to go. Keep the boring part of waiting out of sight and out of mind, until that one golden day arrives and your site finally 'has it's day'.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
        Originally Posted by Cory Friedman View Post

        This is why outsourcing solid SEO can be such a great way to go. Keep the boring part of waiting out of sight and out of mind, until that one golden day arrives and your site finally 'has it's day'.

        Until, of course, the next algorithm change that has your site fall off the map. Then, you're right back to where you started.

        SEO focus, as a source of organic traffic creation, is a pointless practice in the next generation of online marketing, in my opinion. Google is making absolutely sure of that.

        I'd much rather pay someone to do some social media promotion than drop a single cent on any type of SEO services aimed at Google.
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          I'm looking forward to it.

          You can't get much worse than not ranking for anything apart from the blog name lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    People who continually try to game systems will continually be let down. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      People who continually try to game systems will continually be let down. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Hey Michael,

      The ironic thing is, Google's/Cutts' attitude makes me what to "game" their system even more.

      It seems they are past trying to eliminate crap and more like trying to punish people/sites they think are "cheating", with no regards to the collateral damage, such as allowing negative SEO.

      All Google has to do is not count "platform" links for anything, including good and bad. It was Google's use of links in their ranking that was/is the cause of all the comment spam we see. Google encouraged this spam and even rewarded the spammers, until it wasn't benefical to Google any more.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Hey Michael,

        The ironic thing is, Google's/Cutts' attitude makes me what to "game" their system even more.

        It seems they are past trying to eliminate crap and more like trying to punish people/sites they think are "cheating", with no regards to the collateral damage, such as allowing negative SEO.

        All Google has to do is not count "platform" links for anything, including good and bad. It was Google's use of links in their ranking that was/is the cause of all the comment spam we see. Google encouraged this spam and even rewarded the spammers, until it wasn't benefical to Google any more.
        Hi Kurt,

        That's an interesting take on it.

        I do not go overboard on my SEO, and prefer to take what I consider a more logical approach to it. At the same time, I don't rely on Google for the majority of my traffic.

        Some of what they are doing does sound fishy, but maybe this is only one part of a long-term strategy.

        The idea of gaming systems is one I don't get, but at the same time, I don't want to see my Warrior friends suffer due to apparently arbitrary changes.

        We will all ride it out, and things will start to settle down. The gamers will try to figure it out, only to suffer again and again. That's a shame, but it's the way it is. Those who accept that reality will eventually come out ahead.

        All the best,
        Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      People who continually try to game systems will continually be let down. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Well, all the best to you too!



      Penguin = Fail
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  • Feels good not relying on Google anymore. The last update was the best thing to happen for my business.

    Google traffic should be considered a nice bonus, not a primary source.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Do you all know the REAL reason for so many arbitrary Google Updates? It's not to stop people from gaming the system... It's to get more people to finally start paying for good placement in the search engine. If Google had it's way, every search result would be 100% paid positions instead of having the organic section. But then everyone would stop using them so Google makes up all sorts of new algorithm changes to frustrate people into buying more advertising.
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    • Profile picture of the author ex9to5guy
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Do you all know the REAL reason for so many arbitrary Google Updates? It's not to stop people from gaming the system... It's to get more people to finally start paying for good placement in the search engine. If Google had it's way, every search result would be 100% paid positions instead of having the organic section. But then everyone would stop using them so Google makes up all sorts of new algorithm changes to frustrate people into buying more advertising.
      Nailed it... Google just want us all to pay for traffic. Plain and simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author JEasy
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Do you all know the REAL reason for so many arbitrary Google Updates? It's not to stop people from gaming the system... It's to get more people to finally start paying for good placement in the search engine. If Google had it's way, every search result would be 100% paid positions instead of having the organic section. But then everyone would stop using them so Google makes up all sorts of new algorithm changes to frustrate people into buying more advertising.
      This is all it's about. Everyone pay for AdWords. They've hinted at this before.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert M Gouge
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Do you all know the REAL reason for so many arbitrary Google Updates? It's not to stop people from gaming the system... It's to get more people to finally start paying for good placement in the search engine. If Google had it's way, every search result would be 100% paid positions instead of having the organic section. But then everyone would stop using them so Google makes up all sorts of new algorithm changes to frustrate people into buying more advertising.
      I remember reading somewhere that after the penguin update that their adwords customers increased by 25-30% or some other obscene number.

      Whether this is true or not, who knows. I don't recall the source of the article, but, what better way to encourage more ad buys than to ensure it's impossible to maintain consistent rankings by constantly changing the algorithm.

      If I owned Google, I would do just that. It really is their only play to increase buyers.
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      • Profile picture of the author theteach
        Originally Posted by Robert M Gouge View Post

        I remember reading somewhere that after the penguin update that their adwords customers increased by 25-30% or some other obscene number.

        Whether this is true or not, who knows. I don't recall the source of the article, but, what better way to encourage more ad buys than to ensure it's impossible to maintain consistent rankings by constantly changing the algorithm.

        If I owned Google, I would do just that. It really is their only play to increase buyers.

        Just look at history....

        Create the Problem and Provide the Solution
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    • Profile picture of the author fortony
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Do you all know the REAL reason for so many arbitrary Google Updates? It's not to stop people from gaming the system... It's to get more people to finally start paying for good placement in the search engine. If Google had it's way, every search result would be 100% paid positions instead of having the organic section. But then everyone would stop using them so Google makes up all sorts of new algorithm changes to frustrate people into buying more advertising.
      That is just the usual conspiracy minded thinking.

      Actually, what Google gets from small time ppc advertising is peanuts as a percentage of overall revenue. Besides, for every loser in seo, there is a winner.

      Google cares about search results and knows it is nothing without them. They want to deliver what they see as value to the user as the mighty can fall quickly online.

      Not that I agree with a lot of what they do. But the whole bit about forcing people to ppc....
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  • Profile picture of the author JeffHylands
    Reply to this article from Matt Cutts

    " I wasn't saying that people needed to overly stress out about the next Penguin update, but I'm happy to give more details. I was giving context on the fact that lots of people were asking me when the next Penguin update would happen, as if they expected Penguin updates to happen on a monthly basis and as if Penguin would only involve data refreshes.

    If you remember, in the early days of Panda, it took several months for us to iterate on the algorithm, and the Panda impact tended to be somewhat larger (e.g. the April 2011 update incorporated new signals like sites that users block). Later on, the Panda updates had less impact over time as we stabilized the signals/algorithm and Panda moved closer to near-monthly updates.
    Likewise, we're still in the early stages of Penguin where the engineers are incorporating new signals and iterating to improve the algorithm. Because of that, expect that the next few Penguin updates will take longer, incorporate additional signals, and as a result will have more noticeable impact. It's not the case that people should just expect data refreshes for Penguin quite yet."
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  • Profile picture of the author Charanjit
    looking forward to the new update, just make you value your email list and social media that little bit extra, what I am less is more at the moment. I have been testing two sites, one with 100 fresh back links a week and the other one 10 (but in a pyramid). The pyramid is wining hands down.
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Google has already done all they can to me. Bring it on!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Here's a little video I made a while back about this topic:

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    • Profile picture of the author kiliki
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Here's a little video I made a while back about this topic:

      Google Penguin and Panda - YouTube
      That's awesome, haha... took me a few seconds to figure out the message, but that's exactly what we worry about.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Funny thing is ... Google's search results suck now. It's much harder to find to what I'm searching for. I'm not interested in the youtube results or any other Google property and the results have just gotten less relevant IMO. As for shaking in my boots, I don't really care what Google does. That's not where my traffic comes from.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Jacobsen
    Gaming or not gaming is not the question. The question is weather a business can grow with the new changes. Unfortunately many SEO's believe Google is going for the dollar now instead of making their search engine the best in the world.

    Diversify or die is what it looks like for the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Andrew Jacobsen View Post

      ...many SEO's believe Google is going for the dollar now instead of making their search engine the best in the world
      ^^^^^^^
      This. Google is sacrificing search relevance to dominate the front page with its own crapola and with sponsored links and results. Google thinks this is a good idea, but I'll bet Yahoo thought it had a few good ideas too.

      I got so tired of searching through literally pages and pages of one famous marketer's links when I was searching for something entirely different that I went to Bing to get relevant results. Got to say ... there's still one marketer gaming Google big time.

      I don't know if it will be Bing, but I can honestly see a day when people are sick of Google's results.
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      • Profile picture of the author 1byte
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        ^^^^^^^
        This. Google is sacrificing search relevance to dominate the front page with its own crapola and with sponsored links and results. Google thinks this is a good idea, but I'll bet Yahoo thought it had a few good ideas too.

        I got so tired of searching through literally pages and pages of one famous marketer's links when I was searching for something entirely different that I went to Bing to get relevant results. Got to say ... there's still one marketer gaming Google big time.

        I don't know if it will be Bing, but I can honestly see a day when people are sick of Google's results.
        I agree wholeheartedly, and couldn't have said it better myself. I'm really sick of Google's Act, and am looking forward to the day when Google gets knocked off its high-and-mighty perch.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Here's a guess:

    Right before Xmas traffic starts, and without leaving webmasters time for corrections during the holiday season, millions of Amazon affiliate sites will disappear from the search rankings.

    The goal will not merely be 'cleaning up search' - but the long-term elimination of affiliates by forcing financial devastation so they need to get jobs.

    Coincidentally, of course, Google product listings will be given more prominence.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Here's a guess:

      Right before Xmas traffic starts, and without leaving webmasters time for corrections during the holiday season, millions of Amazon affiliate sites will disappear from the search rankings.

      The goal will not merely be 'cleaning up search' - but the long-term elimination of affiliates by forcing financial devastation so they need to get jobs.

      Coincidentally, of course, Google product listings will be given more prominence.

      .
      I totally agree with this. Too bad the job market is going to be so tough on them too.
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  • Profile picture of the author KamauAustin
    I agree that with all the updates I notice Google's results aren't as good. Furthermore other methods of promotion like social media just isn't as valuable or effective as SEO.

    I have a large social media network of over 250K contacts but they don't buy like SEO driven prospects. Unless you're doing B2B on Linked In I don't really see social media prospects as good as SEO.

    I even have a client doing a multimillion dollar business online. He invests big money in Adwords to off set his SEO efforts. But Adwords has a very low click-thru rate from people on Google. The organic SEO prospects driven from Google convert much higher than Adword prospects.

    I'm moving out of SEO because I'm tired of all the updates. I'd rather go to a online sales platform like eBay or Amazon to work on building a business. eBay and Amazon want you to make money on their system.

    Google is more concerned with their Ad revenue and destroying the SEO business. It's hard to beat someone in a game they created and control. SEO I don't think will be a viable and liable business in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianCorcoran
    Originally Posted by yourreviewer View Post

    It seems Matt Cutts at the SES San Francisco yesterday informed that there will be some major changes coming in the next Penguin update that won't be liked by the webmasters.

    Here is the link,

    Google's Next Penguin Update Will Be "Jarring & Jolting"
    Just get your anchor text distribution sorted and you will be fine!
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  • Profile picture of the author AlphaWarrior
    I built one of my sites 5-6 years ago and I believe that it is a quality site giving value to people looking for the information that the site provides. The only link building I did was post several articles on Ezines and I did that because I wanted traffic from Ezines (over the years I have gotten a lot of traffic from Ezines). Before Panda, traffic was so so, but I was OK with it. After Panda, traffic jumped big time. Then came Penguin, and traffic dropped 70% to about 30% of what it was under Panda. G giveth, G taketh it away. It is their search engine, so be it. I have not and I am not chasing G.

    The real problem is that Google no longer gives relevant results. I have searched Google for several things, gone through the first 10-15 pages (no kidding, I really looked at the first 10-15 pages), not find what I am searching for, gone to Bing, and find it on the first page. Now I just go to Bing.

    It seems to me that Google is so scared that someone is trying "game" their system that they do not even believe the page title, keywords, description, etc. of a web page, but believe that the web site creator is always trying to fool them. So Google makes up its' own concept of what Google thinks a page is "really" about. And because Google doesn't believe web site creators, Googles' results are JUNK!
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    • Profile picture of the author The Real Deal
      Originally Posted by Joel Ross View Post

      Yep i've been saying this for some time now it really isn't a viable business model to be honest.
      Even if this were true, it's kinda hard to give up on something that has made you millions in profits...

      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Google is sacrificing search relevance to dominate the front page with its own crapola and with sponsored links and results. Google thinks this is a good idea, but I'll bet Yahoo thought it had a few good ideas too.
      Exactly.

      Google is without question sacrificing the quality of their results to reach their next quarterly earnings target. If this continues it will be a very costly long-term strategy.

      There is one problem with trying to analyze Matt's comments though. He is a spokesperson for Google and he will say whatever is beneficial for them, not the truth. If anyone is interested I posted here about an experience I had with Matt Cuts not telling the truth, and there have been many more examples since then...
      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Silvey
    I think as a community we should just ignore Google altogether. Boycott the whole thing. Just focus on W3 standards for organics and plow through other traffic methods.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    If your scared of learning SEO, find another traffic source. Or just keep posting how Google did you wrong, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    If the search results are as bad as many of you claim, you can bet your sweet bottom that Google would fix it. But the reality is ..there is nothing to fix.

    The truth of the matter, is that the average joe internet user is quite satisfied with what Google is recommending them. It's in Google's interests to keep them happy otherwise they lose market.

    See: Bing/Yahoo Down 4 Percent, Google steady

    If keeping them happy means serving answers directly in the SERPs, or offering up well-known brands more often, or demoting sites that didn't earn their rankings REGARDLESS OF CONTENT OR serving a half page full of ads before serps ....then that's what they'll do.

    It's not in Google's interest to keep us [webmasters] happy or provide us free traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Not worried in the least. Despite all the rah rah people always focus on what is changing not on what has remained the same. Getting great links (not spam links) has worked for years, Sites that engage real readers has worked for years (cause go figure people link to them organically) and well written pages that cover the subject well has worked for years.

    People love to point out the exceptions but they are not the rule. If people were not finding the content they wanted like someone said Google would be slipping. they aren't . Only people really crying are marketers and that only makes Google want to make em cry more
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    • Profile picture of the author JonVinci
      This is starting to really push for people generating traffic by other means than just straight ranking in SERPS. I see social media sites continuing to play a big role in directing traffic to your site. In fact, I'm exploring what I think could be the next big social start up company and seeing some decent results.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheProgrammer
    I don't know if y'all noticed, but Matt responded to this article.
    Matt Cutts • 2 hours ago −
    Hey Barry, I wasn't saying that people needed to overly stress out about the next Penguin update, but I'm happy to give more details. I was giving context on the fact that lots of people were asking me when the next Penguin update would happen, as if they expected Penguin updates to happen on a monthly basis and as if Penguin would only involve data refreshes.

    If you remember, in the early days of Panda, it took several months for us to iterate on the algorithm, and the Panda impact tended to be somewhat larger (e.g. the April 2011 update incorporated new signals like sites that users block). Later on, the Panda updates had less impact over time as we stabilized the signals/algorithm and Panda moved closer to near-monthly updates.
    Likewise, we're still in the early stages of Penguin where the engineers are incorporating new signals and iterating to improve the algorithm. Because of that, expect that the next few Penguin updates will take longer, incorporate additional signals, and as a result will have more noticeable impact. It's not the case that people should just expect data refreshes for Penguin quite yet. http://www.seroundtable.com/google-p...ment-621250469
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  • Profile picture of the author aadi144
    Although change is for betterment but i think this update will make a drastic change for SEO's and webmasters.Hope despite doing well my site image won't go down.
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  • Profile picture of the author legoog8
    Google is a joke an algorithm can always be cracked and again it is dynamic just like all other websites it is like google does not know what dynamic means! Also google isn't a super artificial intelligence google cannot even read (well only numbers).

    The internet is basically light and light has a infinite spectrum so google cannot beat light!
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Nguyen
    Many will disagree but Google is still predominantly a links based algorithm. Get good links and your site will go far. No need to try and game Google, with BMR and link networks. It's all about trust and relevancy with Google.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sanket Patel
    Google engineers doing handwork for launching next penguin updates. I am eager to see algorithm that's designed to penalize sites that spam Google. So now SEO becomes more challenging for us.
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  • Profile picture of the author matthewjudd
    Hey.... Its really very important news for any SEO's and webmasters. I also agree with Mike Hill. And as per my opinion Google will convert all organic result into paid one. If this happen than most of high priority keyword would be on Auction.


    I think organic result is always need. Because in organic result, their is a competition. And its better than paid.
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  • Profile picture of the author rahmanpaidar
    Google never hates any sites, nor it hates spamming techniques.
    They care less about who you are and what is this and what is that.

    You can name it all you want. Google penalized me. Google wants that
    google wants this. But one thing is real. If you pay them, they will list
    you on each position you want.

    You can spam internet all day long and end with getting dropped in ranking.
    Do you think they hate you and your site?

    Do you think they trust less to your site, its contents and to what you
    provide on your site after spamming? If so, then how they will list you
    in their adwords program for their visitors?

    Yes, sure. They abide to US rules and laws.
    They can show whatever they want on their site to profit more like all of us,
    as long as it is legal and abide to laws.
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  • Profile picture of the author amrikvirdi
    All we can do is "WAIT"!
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  • Profile picture of the author MSC
    I like penguins and its updates, as with ever update I get sudden jump in ranking positions, like from #32 to #4 and so on.

    Keep those penguins coming , as long as they improve my rankings every time
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
      Originally Posted by MSC View Post

      I like penguins and its updates, as with ever update I get sudden jump in ranking positions, like from #32 to #4 and so on.

      Keep those penguins coming , as long as they improve my rankings every time
      Yeah, I also like idiots... yipee yay!

      Next time, hopefully you gonna do better
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    These threads make me realize that many of you spend far too much time in your own little IM world and not enough time in the real world. You act like there is this big backlash across the world against Google search. Do you actually talk to people outside of the IM world though?

    Never once have I been sitting at a bar with some friends and heard this comment, "Man, did you hear about Google's latest update? I'm done with them. Bing all the way for now on."

    The real world, which 99% of Google's users exist in, has no idea what Penguin, Panda, Caffeine, May Day, or any other major Google update are.

    Google is still dominating search market share everywhere outside of China and Russia, while Bing continues to lose money hand over fist.

    I find it hilarious when people act like Bing's search results are perfect and impervious to spammers. There are numerous search queries I can find where Google's results are better than Bings and vice versa.

    Search "currency trading online". Just look at the top 2 results in Google and Bing, and tell me which look more legit. Google wins hands down. For those complaining that Google wants to overrun its SERP with ads, in this query Google does have more ads at the top of the screen, but Bing only lists 8 organic results while Google has 10. Also, I think Google is far more transparent about which results are ads with their colored box around them. Bing's ad background is only visible when you adjust your monitor settings (at least on the 4 different monitor's I tested it on).

    I'm not a Google apologist. I could care less which search engine emerges as the top dog in the next 10 years. I think people just get too emotional in their analysis of Google and comparing it with Bing. If their website doesn't come up where they want it in Google, than Google sucks and they start making excuses for Bing.

    If you want to believe that the SERPs are worse after Penguin, fine, but prove it. Show some examples of SERPs before and after Penguin. Do not just list some search query with a few spammy results in it. Those existed before Penguin too. Back it up with some facts, so there can be a real discussion about it.

    Like I said, I have no side in this argument. I would rather just see the arguments made with actual facts and examples.
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    • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      "...." Like I said, I have no side in this argument. I would rather just see the arguments made with actual facts and examples.
      Mike, thanks! You right man, it is an emotional reaction everytime... I remember when everyone brought up that "make money online" example with the empty blogger blog at the top of the results and used that eg. to say G is screwed up, BUT, if they went to Bing they would have seen the same blogger blog on the first page for that query.

      Bing is not the best search engine and they will never be, coz Google's human assets are beyond Bing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Pava
    Mike, Google serp now is a piece of sh*t.
    Look at this AOL Search and compare http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=sex...UTF-8&fr=moz35
    I want links to sex dating sites, and what do I see? Ads are 100% relevant right....

    I can show tons of such examples. Sometimes a half of the results is Youtube.

    PS. In SEO 5 years.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Pava View Post

      Mike, Google serp now is a piece of sh*t.
      Look at this AOL Search and compare sex dating sites - Yahoo! Search Results
      I want links to sex dating sites, and what do I see? Ads are 100% relevant right....

      I can show tons of such examples. Sometimes a half of the results is Youtube.

      PS. In SEO 5 years.

      I'm not asking to see examples of SERPs that are bad. They have always existed. I can show you examples in Bing, Yahoo, or any other search engine that suck too. I want examples of where Penguin made the SERPs worse.
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      • Profile picture of the author DidierEv
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        I want examples of where Penguin made the SERPs worse.
        Do a search for "home bar design pictures" and tell me that is a quality result. SEVEN consecutive results from the same photo spamming site.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by DidierEv View Post

          Do a search for “home bar design pictures” and tell me that is a quality result. SEVEN consecutive results from the same photo spamming site.
          That still doesn't answer Mike's question (before/after results).

          Anyways, that search for [home bar design pictures] is how you SEO & the images on those ranked 1st page SERP (text) listings are 100% relevant. Doesn't matter If they own the 1st page, they are totally serious about that keyword, the guys below them on 2nd+ pages can't be bothered with being serious about ranking 1st page for that keyword.

          They snooze, they lose.

          [edit]
          Also anytime you search for image keywords [home bar design pictures], the top of the SERP page will be loaded with images, as you can see the images are pushing the SERPs down to only display 6 SERP listings on the 1st page.
          • keyword + pictures
          • keyword + images
          • keyword + photos
          • etc...
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by DidierEv View Post

          Do a search for "home bar design pictures" and tell me that is a quality result. SEVEN consecutive results from the same photo spamming site.
          Again you are missing my point. Bad results have always existed in all search engines. I'm asking for proof that Penguin made it worse.
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      • Profile picture of the author retsek
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        I want examples of where Penguin made the SERPs worse.
        The thing is ...Penguin's primary purpose wasn't to improve search quality. It was to level the playing field and remove sites that weren't playing by the existing rules.

        As a result, sites with potentially great content but "aggressive webspam tactics " got hit. I don't think Penguin makes a distinction.

        I've yet to see a site that got hit by Penguin and didn't deserve it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
          Originally Posted by retsek View Post

          The thing is ...Penguin's primary purpose wasn't to improve search quality. It was to level the playing field and remove sites that weren't playing by the existing rules.

          As a result, sites with potentially great content but "aggressive webspam tactics " got hit. I don't think Penguin makes a distinction.

          I've yet to see a site that got hit by Penguin and didn't deserve it.
          Pretty much this. Well said.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tessa Holmes
            Somebody posted an offer here to ignore or 'boycott' Google. I am not sure if this is possible. They are too big and useful to ignore them completely.
            I am not excited about new update. "Jarring & Jolting" Ah..? Not sure if I like this kind of offer. Let's see what is coming.
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            Can I Haz A CheezBurgr?
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by retsek View Post

          The thing is ...Penguin's primary purpose wasn't to improve search quality. It was to level the playing field and remove sites that weren't playing by the existing rules.

          As a result, sites with potentially great content but "aggressive webspam tactics " got hit. I don't think Penguin makes a distinction.

          I've yet to see a site that got hit by Penguin and didn't deserve it.
          You are absolutely right. Just like sites with potentially great content but aggressive webspam tactics got hit, many sites with great content that didn't have a clue how to spam their way to the top saw their rankings improve.

          And I agree. Every site I have seen someone post that "didn't deserve to get hit and wasn't doing anything wrong" has been debunked.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            I'm not asking to see examples of SERPs that are bad. They have always existed. I can show you examples in Bing, Yahoo, or any other search engine that suck too. I want examples of where Penguin made the SERPs worse.
            The answer to that is simple. The real answer is that its worse because the person that is saying its worse ISN'T RANKING. The deciding factor for the complaining by marketers has never been about quality results, NEVER. Its purely about where THEIR sites are ranking and they think pointing at other sites that are ranking with poor quality somehow justifies their "google did me wrong " argument

            Rewind this forum 2+ years back and one and two page MFAs were ranking and were Imers complaining about search result quality? Nah. Live and let live. They were blasting with Xrummer, slamming with senuke and doing thousands of blog comments plus Angela's backlinks . If anyone said maybe you shouldn't be doing that they were LAUGHED off the forums because it was working. "Its working and I am going with it. You can come off your high horse" was the most common sentiment.

            Tomorrow if a software package with a few clicks makes you rank #1 even with one page wordpress sites with only 100 words of content total this board would have people rushing to buy it and run the software 27 hours a day. They would strip Godaddy and name cheap of all their available domains, burn out their web hosts cpus doing Fantastico/Softaculous installations and the thread that it sold in would be 1587 pages long requiring special modding to WF forum software

            and there would be hardly heard a peep about how evil Google is or how wrong it is that quality content isn't ranking. Cause um the surest internet marketers definition of quality content is -

            Mine

            Rank a site based on that quality definition and everybody is good. Outside of that the content complaints are a total farce to justify Google's decision not to rank their own money sites.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              The answer to that is simple. The real answer is that its worse because the person that is saying its worse ISN'T RANKING. The deciding factor for the complaining by marketers has never been about quality results, NEVER. Its purely about where THEIR sites are ranking and they think pointing at other sites that are ranking with poor quality somehow justifies their "google did me wrong " argument

              BINGO!

              Hold your cards, we have a winner...
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  • Profile picture of the author Pava
    By the way people use google because of Google search bar in their browsers. Even in my iphone I can't change default search engine. And yes, I started using Yahoo sometimes, because Google just can't find what I need.

    Another story. I searched for some media buying IM methods, and I had found great blog posts about this... on the 15th page. Really great blogs with usefull info in the Google's ass. Sometimes I think that google now is a big catalogue of big brands.

    P.S. I still have big SEO projects but i'm tired of all this Google's sh*t. It is a search engine, they use our content. They need US. Not we.
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    • Profile picture of the author DidierEv
      Originally Posted by Pava View Post

      It is a search engine, they use our content. They need US. Not we.
      Exactly what I'm thinking. Without us webmasters Google wouldn't even exist
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  • Profile picture of the author Pava
    Before penguin I did not see that SERP could be filled with only Youtube or pages from only 1 website.
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  • Profile picture of the author howto
    Just make your backlinks look natural and dont over SEO your on page stuff. If you make your site gain backlinks like a site that gets backlinks naturally you cant go wrong. Do you think they will give natural sites a penalty? Most likely not, so look natural and you will be fine .


    Posted from Warrior Forum Reader for Android
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  • Profile picture of the author Dayes
    Hello, there! My name is Random Internet Marketer. I make terrible websites about other peoples products, that I've never even used myself.

    Why has my website been penalized by Google updates!? I must proceed to hate this company, but still continue to use their services.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    The rumor has it, hmmmm, the rumor has it hmmmm.

    I hope you guys are not thinking what am thinking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
    The answer to that is simple. The real answer is that its worse because the person that is saying its worse ISN'T RANKING. The deciding factor for the complaining by marketers has never been about quality results, NEVER. Its purely about where THEIR sites are ranking and they think pointing at other sites that are ranking with poor quality somehow justifies their "google did me wrong " argument
    SPAM

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    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
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  • Profile picture of the author gearmonkey
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    My Guitar Website | My SEO Blog - Advertising spots available.

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  • Profile picture of the author Writingman1421
    They want more people paying. They get no money from the top 10 results, ZERO, ZIP, NADDA. They get money from clicking on ads..... so you have crappy results in top 10... you get more people clicking on ads.
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  • Profile picture of the author aroth
    Just scare tactics from matt cutts. Penguin has made the results crappy but it also made ranking easier at the same time. I agree with mike hill that a big portion of its motive is to push people to adwords but also it's because they know they can never fully protect organic listings as long as they rely on a linking system and their is no better alternative to using links to gage a websites authority.
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