Anti-Marketing Mentality VS Forum Mentality

by nest28
25 replies
  • SEO
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I see questions asked all the time about what niche to choose or how can I monetize my site, and marketers give the same answers every time, well make a niche site, use Adsense or Amazon, as if these are the only ways to make money/sites.

Where is your creativity, I don't see anyone saying anything different than what the last guy just said. I've already gone down that road of following forum mentality , I made sites in niches that had nothing to do with my own interest, and even though they may have been bigger than the average MFA site, I can admit now that they were made with the sole purpose of making money


Quick definitions:

Forum Mentality- Simply doing the same as everybody else, retelling the same info you just read in someone else's post.


Anti-Marketing Mentality-Someone who is creative, comes up with fresh ideas, does testing for themselves instead of relying on other members info.

Some may say hey who does this guy think he is, he acts like he's better than us or smarter, no I don't, you think I make these threads because I get paid to do it, or just to rant for no reason, I do this to trying wake you guys up, it's like being around zombies in here.


I want to see you guys succeed, I mean truly succeed, and that wont happen by making 100 niche sites, or following everybody else, because guess what, when those new updates come yr after after yr, you going to be one of many complaining about how you hate Google because they penalized your niche sites.

You better start making real sites, they people want to visit, more and more Google is eliminating the need to even visit a site. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A SITE SO GOOD, THAT PEOPLE TYPE IN THE NAME, YOU WANT TO HAVE "DIRECT TRAFFIC".

Check out IMDb, in Google keyword tool, it get's more than 3,000,000 visitors from people who type in "IMDb" in order to visit their site. You think I'm crazy right, take a look at this:


Oh you want to build niche sites as Amazon affiliate huh well Google shopping has another thing to say about that.



Oh your smarter than the rest of us, because your going to build info type sites, well Google is slowly but surely taking traffic away from those to.

So you want to know how old Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is do ya, well you don't even have to visit a site to find that out, oh you want to know how much he make, no problem , all the info is right here without even visiting a website.



Here's another example:

Searcher: aaww damn what was the name of that guy who played agent Smith in The Matrix, oh I know I'll visit IMDb and find out.



Searcher: oh never mind his name his "Hugo Weaving" it's right there at the top of the page, and I didn't even have to visit a website to get that info, man Google is great.

In the future you will have to have a site that people love/need to visit, niche sites want last much longer, X-factors methods, along with Sniper sites are out. The internet is rapidly changing yet were here talking about methods from 3 or 4 yrs ago.

Your goal should be to make a site with a great topic, that will never get stale, something that is fun and refreshing. Your second goal should be to have this site be centered around social interaction, site with social vibes will defiantly get direct traffic, I mean look at Facebook, all I do is type "F" and Google already know where I want to go.



For example imagine if Amazon created a better user experience by some how making user profiles on there site better, by having profile stats, like pro buyer,active buyer etc, and having a thank count, so that you know any advice from this person would benefit you,it would be like a Facebook of shopping, people could make friends and get advice on which items to buy.



Yea I know they have user reviews but who you going to believe a user review from a stranger or from a friend you met last month, who profile says she's a pro buyer, and have great stats.

All this is just something for you to think about, these last couple threads I made have been so long that I've decided to go ahead and make my own personal blog, somewhere for people that are tired of the norm,everyday thread titles of "how do I rank niche sites" or "what is a backlink" as if a simple Google search couldn't answer that question.
#antimarketing #forum #mentality
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I don't want to sound like the $7 self promoting gurus, but there's ways to make serious money without creating a single page of written content on your own site/s. I'm not talking about affiliate products I'm talking about creating your own products (not Clickbank either).

    I won't say how I know this, but I know a few folks (not on this forum) that are bringing in average $30,000+ per month (consistently, month after month).

    I don't care If anyone believes me about the $30k+. I'm not selling anything, I won't go into details with PMs (don't anyone PM about it), I have nothing to gain or lose, just pointing out that there's a lot of money on the net & it has nothing to do with writing articles (man I hate articles, lol). I'm usually one of the first to call BS on money claims, I do realize that, but I'm not talking BS here.

    Also, I'm defiantly not making $30k per month right now, but I've seen it done multiple times (consistently) & not from some self proclaimed guru, from people that are actually very modest.

    My advice for everyone, look for pockets of buyer traffic on the net. Step outside of the IM thinking & research the traffic that the most popular sites are getting, why are they getting that traffic & where is the traffic coming from (besides SEO).

    BTW, there's nothing wrong with SEO, but I've never (ever) let SEO be more than 50% of my traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rollmodl
      Good post. I definitely agree with the lack of creativity.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I don't want to sound like the $7 self promoting gurus, but there's ways to make serious money without creating a single page of written content on your own site/s. I'm not talking about affiliate products I'm talking about creating your own products (not Clickbank either).

      I won't say how I know this, but I know a few folks (not on this forum) that are bringing in average $30,000+ per month (consistently, month after month).

      I don't care If anyone believes me about the $30k+. I'm not selling anything, I won't go into details with PMs (don't anyone PM about it), I have nothing to gain or lose, just pointing out that there's a lot of money on the net & it has nothing to do with writing articles (man I hate articles, lol). I'm usually one of the first to call BS on money claims, I do realize that, but I'm not talking BS here.

      Also, I'm defiantly not making $30k per month right now, but I've seen it done multiple times (consistently) & not from some self proclaimed guru, from people that are actually very modest.

      My advice for everyone, look for pockets of buyer traffic on the net. Step outside of the IM thinking & research the traffic that the most popular sites are getting, why are they getting that traffic & where is the traffic coming from (besides SEO).

      BTW, there's nothing wrong with SEO, but I've never (ever) let SEO be more than 50% of my traffic.
      I believe those income statements for simple fact that I trust you, and I know there is a hell of a lot more to marketing than what get's discussed here. I've also seen sites that have no articles, just pics and a clever idea, and that was enough for them to make ton of money online.

      Personally I want to have a website, but I am always open for new ideas, that's all I would like to see here, fresh ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I should also mention that the $30k+ per month is based on a lot of work & skills, that right there eliminates the majority of people looking to earn money online. Skills can be learned, work ethics, well, people either have it or they don't.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
    First let me agree with you 110%: Yes this is a long post and Yes you need to start a blog for this stuff.. *laughs*

    I personally think IM as it relates to websites and SEO is at a crossroads (which is being forced/pushed by google updates), at some point you will need to make a choice if you want to do MNS or create a brand. I personally love creating brands because of the sense of pride it gives you when you see in the logs someone searched for the brand you created in your niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by Nelapsi View Post

      First let me agree with you 110%: Yes this is a long post and Yes you need to start a blog for this stuff.. *laughs*

      I personally think IM as it relates to websites and SEO is at a crossroads (which is being forced/pushed by google updates), at some point you will need to make a choice if you want to do MNS or create a brand. I personally love creating brands because of the sense of pride it gives you when you see in the logs someone searched for the brand you created in your niche.
      I promise this is my last thread for a very long time, I'm helping the WF expand their site instead of building my own. This is another goal of mine, to incorporate user generated content, it's the fastest way to expand a site, let others do the work.

      I also feel the same way you do, I have a great idea for a site, and it's so much fun that I could easily spend 10 hrs working and it would feel like 5 minutes, because it not about ranking for a keyword, I don't care about ranking for keywords anymore, what I do care about is traffic, get enough traffic and you can write your own ticket.

      Working on something you love feels great.
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  • Profile picture of the author jxam69
    Hi Nest

    I always enjoy your threads, so if you take them to your own blog I'll probably drop by from time to time.

    Your message about Google constantly changing in ways that serve to improve their own value, often at the expense of the sites they return in their search results, is lost on many people here - they're the ones who are reactive rather than proactive, and sit around complaining every time big G releases an update.

    As yukon observed, there are many ways to climb the mountain, I hope you fare well on your journey.
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    • Profile picture of the author JamesColin
      Banned
      Also another thing that is changing is the fact that computers now have become so small that many people carry them all the time, they are the smartphones and to another extend the tablets. 2 weeks ago I was in a plane from beijing to bangkok and it looked like everyone on this plane had an ipad or another tablet for the 4h trip (the seats didn't have screens)
      So apps or websites tailored for smaller screens are something we can't ignore much longer if at all :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
    I have to agree with you here!
    You find the idea's and websites that make the MOST financial income online are unique idea's that nobody has ever come up with before.

    I.e Facebook, before Facebook there wasnt really a market for people wanting to share their life with their friends etc but now there is one.

    And same goes for PayPal and eBay, going back years and years ago there wasnt a market or waiting bunch of people searching for online auctions to sell their stuff but now there is.

    Sometimes you have to take a risk, on a project or idea where there ISNT already a waiting market, or maybe not a large one and make it something that people will search for and want.

    And ive spent god knows amount of wasted hours and days racking my brains for that amazing idea, and it never comes. Sometimes I can fall into it and I also believe the best idea's come from something YOU want or are searching for that you cannot find.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by Geekgirl01 View Post

      And ive spent god knows amount of wasted hours and days racking my brains for that amazing idea, and it never comes. Sometimes I can fall into it and I also believe the best idea's come from something YOU want or are searching for that you cannot find.
      Great ideas are all around you, first take a look at yourself, what is it that you like/love to do in your spear time, make a site about it . Now normally the advice would stop right there, make a site about what you love right, how about making a site about what you love with a twist.

      For example I notice a lot of sites are just plain boring, like Wikipedia, I mean sure there a great website, but it reminds me of a dictionary, and how fun is a dictionary to read.

      How about making a site with attitude, using slang instead or proper English, I just gave this advice in another thread but I like it so much I may use it in my own site. We all text, nobody is going to correct you if you write like this" yo Resident Evil Retribution was off the hook" vs " Resident Evil Retribution was a well thought out movie that supplied lots of action"

      Not to insult the general public but people like dumb things, you could even make a site about the dumbest things ever, I once saw this show called dumb criminals, they showed a clip where this guy robbed a bank and left his wallet, now how dumb is that.

      There really isn't anything new, just reinvent things, put spins on certain topics, instead of a boring review on a movie, type the whole thing in slang, and see if your site doesn't become popular with visitors ages 14 to 30
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  • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
    Very true! Making websites that are less formal, more interesting and like it is being given to you by a REAL person rather than a robot.

    Fun and interesting graphics and more importantly quirky and different techy things, that keep your visitor coming back and back again. And I am a great believer in having a website where there are lots of different things to do on the website.
    e.g. a website that has a store, a few articles maybe a forum and maybe a little something interactive.

    This is exactly what my site is based around.
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    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by Geekgirl01 View Post

      Very true! Making websites that are less formal, more interesting and like it is being given to you by a REAL person rather than a robot.

      Fun and interesting graphics and more importantly quirky and different techy things, that keep your visitor coming back and back again. And I am a great believer in having a website where there are lots of different things to do on the website.
      e.g. a website that has a store, a few articles maybe a forum and maybe a little something interactive.

      This is exactly what my site is based around.
      You actually said it much better than me, and with fewer words, I suck at getting my ideas across lol, but your on the right path.
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  • Profile picture of the author n0tr3v3
    @nest28, I don't normally read long post but this post has re-open my eyes to the fact that Google is changing everyday, and their so-called changes are not only for the searches but for them to increase their profit in the long haul.

    You have also encourage me to think more about brand names... And as such I am looking towards making a website that soon that with get great traffic just from individuals entering the url for direct access....

    Thanks again for sharing your thoughts....
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  • Profile picture of the author lovboa
    Banned
    The Oatmeal is a really good example of this imo.

    The site is run by one guy who is the actual artist of all the work on there.

    Last I saw, he does have an adsense ad here and there, and there was an interview on a podcast with him. He said it's his full-time income and he's quite successful.

    I think he started by selling the artwork/infographics in posters and t-shirts.
    Now, he has a shop on the site selling everything from stickers to greeting cards, all from his artwork.

    I don't think he would be able to make a full-time living off of that site if he just decided to stick some amazon links or adsense ads on there and hope for the best.


    On an SEO note,
    Interestingly enough, do a search for "how to use an apostrophe".
    His info-graphic is ranked #1.
    There's no text on the page, just 9 images make up his content body.
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    • Profile picture of the author Carl Brown
      Great thread. Nice to see some original thinking and some great examples. I never heard of that particular site, but it's the kind of site some of you guys have said will get regular traffic once discovered and passed around.

      Sometimes grammar mistake really annoy me--especially when it's from those who want to make their (there? they're? ) living as writers. Everybody should bookmark and frequent sites like that--especially if you're not sure (not understanding the difference between "your" and "you're" is one of them).
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by lovboa View Post

      The Oatmeal is a really good example of this imo.

      The site is run by one guy who is the actual artist of all the work on there.

      Last I saw, he does have an adsense ad here and there, and there was an interview on a podcast with him. He said it's his full-time income and he's quite successful.

      I think he started by selling the artwork/infographics in posters and t-shirts.
      Now, he has a shop on the site selling everything from stickers to greeting cards, all from his artwork.

      I don't think he would be able to make a full-time living off of that site if he just decided to stick some amazon links or adsense ads on there and hope for the best.


      On an SEO note,
      Interestingly enough, do a search for "how to use an apostrophe".
      His info-graphic is ranked #1.
      There's no text on the page, just 9 images make up his content body.
      Good example!

      Proof again that it isn't always necessary to have an article on a page.

      Example:
      http://shop.theoatmeal.com/collections/frontpage/products/10-words-you-need-to-stop-misspelling
      Same page as above URL (Google Cache) shows very little text:
      10 Words You Need To Stop Misspelling Poster - Google Cache

      Cool idea for selling infographics (posters), that could be applied to a lot of niches, simply create posters (large cheat sheets) from data. You could create an entire site out of infographics (posters, link below).

      http://shop.theoatmeal.com/collections/posters
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Nest is right, odd thing is that most people who thank him for this just continue to build crappy sites It's just in the human nature to think like "Oh yes I want to build a real site, you are so true" to eventually end up with a 20 page affiliate site full of crap and amazed why they don't get repeat clients LOL.

        There is still money to be made in micro niche sites but there are a few catches.

        Catch1: You won't make money unless you're able to flip it for 20 times monthly like Adsense Flippers does. The math is real simple, they spend $40-50 on a site, the site will make on average like $5/month, selling it for 20*monthly brings in $100 so they doubled their investment. Most people only get 10*monthly if they are lucky and just break-even, or they have to keep it 8-10 months but most of the time some update will kill it.

        Catch2: To do make this profitable with only 10* monthly sales value, you can't go out to buy SEO services, the costs will get too high, unless you've done real good kw research of course or build some great site with tons of high converting content, then it's different obvious, but most sites are not build like that, actually the opposite, so the only way to then make money is using a churn & burn strategy by spamming in the right way, OR to utilize your own private network to rank in an affordable way.

        Only then micro niche sites can get affordable, when depending on others the chance is just real small to make it a profitable business, one of the main reasons why very few people succeed in this business.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Proof again that it isn't always necessary to have an article on a page.
        No one ever said it's necessary to have content on a page to be able to rank it, but it's a proven fact that the more relevant content you have on that page, the less links you need to rank it.

        "how to use an apostrophe"
        http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe
        Page Authorty: 81
        KW difficulty: Easy

        "10 Words You Need To Stop Misspelling Poster"
        http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling
        Page Authority: 84
        KW difficulty: Extreme Easy

        Great example of huge authority sites with tons of juice for dead easy keywords and we all know that Google uses OCR so when you add that up then you'll see that the content has quiet a bit of text in it as well which makes it even more easy.

        Now show me some real example please cause this makes totally no sense at all.
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        • Profile picture of the author mike221
          I am internet marketer newbie then I sure, this post does give me very important information. Thanks for sharing.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

          No one ever said it's necessary to have content on a page to be able to rank it, but it's a proven fact that the more relevant content you have on that page, the less links you need to rank it.

          "how to use an apostrophe"
          How To Use An Apostrophe - The Oatmeal
          Page Authorty: 81
          KW difficulty: Easy

          "10 Words You Need To Stop Misspelling Poster"
          10 Words You Need to Stop Misspelling - The Oatmeal
          Page Authority: 84
          KW difficulty: Extreme Easy

          Great example of huge authority sites with tons of juice for dead easy keywords and we all know that Google uses OCR so when you add that up then you'll see that the content has quiet a bit of text in it as well which makes it even more easy.

          Now show me some real example please cause this makes totally no sense at all.


          You missed the point, the keyword above was irrelevant. My point was that not all traffic cares about bloated articles.

          It makes perfect sense, look at this SEO forum & all the clueless folks suggesting things like articles, keyword density, blah, blah....

          This forum is so stuck on articles it's freakin hilarious & goes to show how few people (people in general) on this forum understand how to rank a page. What makes it so funny is, forum members say they can't write articles or have to outsource articles, give me a freakin break.

          If someone can't write articles, don't write articles, it's not complicated, especially since it's not even necessary for SEO. People on this SEO sub-forum are writing articles just to try & rank a page, most could care less what their traffic wants (lol), funny stuff.

          Let's talk keywords anyways.

          Example keyword:
          • low cost auto insurance

          Ranked page - Google Cache

          By all means feel free to write articles all day (everyday).

          BTW, build a large site with all the pages relevant to the main keyword & internal links will do a lot of the SEO work, or write articles all day If you have a bunch of free time. IMO it's easier to build relevant internal links than waste time writing articles just to try & rank a page.
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Pages just rank better with more content so it's logical that people want to write articles or buy articles. Who cares who reads it, as long as you can do with less back links right.

            No seriously, if you can reduce the amount of backlinks by let's say 30% and you need to rank some keyword that would cost $200,- on links or investment in private sites or whatever, that is a saving of $60,- and an article only costs $5,- so it would be stupid for someone to not spend that tiny bit extra on content. So yeah they have very legit reasons to care about articles/content.

            Btw that low insurance site is a PR6 which again proves that you need real strong links to compensate for the lack of content. All the other sites at page 1 are PR3, PR4, PR5. Sure PR on itself doesn't mean much but these aren't some spammed MFA sites so in this case PR definitely does matter. If that site that you mentioned would add a well written 1000 word article with LSI content it would climb up 1 or 2 spots without needing a single extra link.

            Now you can say, this one ranks above it: www.thegeneral.com/car-insurance/ with just as few content but that site is there from 1998 with a ton of back links and most of those links have been there just as long as well, most people heavily under estimate what influence the age of a site can have.

            I used to rank a crappy 1 page tumblr blog at the top of page 2 with a simple PAD blast for a 18.000 exact keyword in the mortgage niche. Why? Cause it was a huge well spun piece of content FULL of LSI keywords. That's the only reason why it moved up so well. Long articles makes it so much cheaper to rank, it's just not normal.
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          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post


            This forum is so stuck on articles it's freakin hilarious & goes to show how few people (people in general) on this forum understand how to rank a page. What makes it so funny is, forum members say they can't write articles or have to outsource articles, give me a freakin break.
            Are you talking to me? Because I've seen you say this a couple times in different threads. Who do you think you are to tell people to think outside the box huh, I'm just kidding


            Your right, I to was brain washed into thinking I needed a ton of content on my sites in order to rank, it was only recently I started to question this logic. There are plenty of sites out there with little to no content that are killing it, because they had a great idea.

            We are living in a era where dumbing things down can actually help your site. Not to long ago, I was sitting in my living gazing at my computer and wondering how I'm going to fund a true authority site, because we all know real authority sites have thousands of pages of content right, and since I'm no writer I would have to buy all that content.

            This lead me to a few options, 1. try writing the articles myself, 2. pay for content, 3. make a forum with the sole purpose of having the members create content for me, like we do here, 4 create a site the has interactive polls,pictures, videos etc.

            In the end I went with option 4, creating a site on a fun topic, using polls, pics, and videos seem like a better option than paying thousands for content, for me personally it was my shortcomings as a writer that push me into this direction, I thought it was a weakness, but it turn out to be a good thing.

            Like I said earlier, the content featured on my site will not read like a dictionary but rather in slang, that way nobody notices my how bad I am as a writer, but the site will center around videos and pictures for the most part.
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  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    Imo you are preaching to newbs. People who have figured this out are generally no longer forum visitors. Nothing wrong with small niche sites. That's where I learned the ropes and now I understand how to analyze markets and come up with creative ideas for content.

    You are asking people who barely know how to format a blog post to create something of quality. That's not how education works. You must learn alphabet before you learn how to read. Some people with experience stick around because they use it as a social hang out but the Target audience you are preaching to have all graduated or flunked out.

    A lot of newbs learning abcs around here and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You are asking people who barely know how to identify money keywords to start understanding complex market analysis.

    Just my opinion but in general, I do agree with your post.
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  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    To clarify what I meant by complex market analysis, I see a lot of people who think the best way to monetize a movie website is to put up a netflix ad when in reality the better way is to put up weight loss ads. I'm my experience, newbs can't wrap their head around this until they gain some experience with niche sites and seeing how traffic behaves.

    I'm not an expert. Just my opinion based on limited experience with a handful of students.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by boxoun View Post

      To clarify what I meant by complex market analysis, I see a lot of people who think the best way to monetize a movie website is to put up a netflix ad when in reality the better way is to put up weight loss ads. I'm my experience, newbs can't wrap their head around this until they gain some experience with niche sites and seeing how traffic behaves.

      I'm not an expert. Just my opinion based on limited experience with a handful of students.
      True, I had a site ranking for a less related keywords to what my Adsense ads were about and the CTR was awesome. It's all about creative thinking.
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