Professional SEO services - is it myth or reality?

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Hello warrior community, I really need some advice in order to understand what should we do. We are selling digital products and services related to web design for last 4 years. Unfortunately we don't have in-house SEO specialist and i simply don't have time to handle that. We received a lot of back-links from our themes and many blogs post but unfortunately our organic traffic is almost same as we had 2 years ago. That is why we hired 1 year ago seo company. We had positive results for 1-2 months but with Panda update our traffic decreased even lower then we had before all link building. I really think that they used links placed on links farms and some other spammy tricks and that was main reason of our organic traffic decline.

So our first experience was quite negative. We are also were trying to find other specialist but we got either "no-guarantee" monthly quotes more 10 000 USD or found same spammy companies with budgets lower 1 000 USD.

So no we want to start working on our site seo again but i really don't sure if we should do that in house or it's still possible to find good specialist with reasonable budget.

Any advice is really appreciated.
#good #myth #professional #reality #seo #services
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    I assume these quotes are so high because you're going after very competitive keywords. Is that the case?
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    • Profile picture of the author gorillas
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      I assume these quotes are so high because you're going after very competitive keywords. Is that the case?
      I don't think that it's quite competitive nice but we one of our main keywords have something like 21,200,000 results in Google. And we are already in top 3 for several such main keywords.

      So all we need is to work on less competitive words.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marketing Fool
    Spend your time and budget elsewhere...no one...and I mean NO ONE...knows how to do SEO anymore. Google has stirred the pot so much that it's a complete crap shoot...and anyone that tells you differently is lying to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

      Spend your time and budget elsewhere...no one...and I mean NO ONE...knows how to do SEO anymore. Google has stirred the pot so much that it's a complete crap shoot...and anyone that tells you differently is lying to you.

      Actually, things really didn't change much at all. Google just made a more concerted effort to target things they were telling people not to do all along.

      Things changed for backlinkers, but not SEOs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marketing Fool
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Things changed for backlinkers, but not SEOs.
        Sorry, that's just not true. I had thousands of websites decimated in these recent updates that had no backlinking on them whatsoever.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEO Haven
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Actually, things really didn't change much at all. Google just made a more concerted effort to target things they were telling people not to do all along.

        Things changed for backlinkers, but not SEOs.
        Well said right there!
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

      Spend your time and budget elsewhere...no one...and I mean NO ONE...knows how to do SEO anymore. Google has stirred the pot so much that it's a complete crap shoot...and anyone that tells you differently is lying to you.
      That's funny, wrong, but still funny.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marketing Fool
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's funny, wrong, but still funny.
        So what's the secret sauce now? How should we be doing SEO?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

          Sorry, that's just not true. I had thousands of websites decimated in these recent updates that had no backlinking on them whatsoever.
          Well of course and the giveaway line is "I had thousands of websites". They were mostly garbage thin MFA sites.

          Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

          So what's the secret sauce now? How should we be doing SEO?
          Stop creating and telling people to create hundreds of low quality nonsense sites. That would be a great start
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        • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
          Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

          So what's the secret sauce now? How should we be doing SEO?
          Change username to SEO... :p

          SEO is dead, move along people.
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          • Profile picture of the author gorillas
            Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

            SEO is dead, move along, people.
            Google is giving us around 40% of traffic and sales and i really think that it's possible to get more with less competitive keywords and networks of site. So i don't think that that SEO is dead i just think that old cheap seo tricks are not working any more.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
              Originally Posted by gorillas View Post

              Google is giving us around 40% of traffic and sales and i really think that it's possible to get more with less competitive keywords and networks of site. So i don't think that that SEO is dead i just think that old cheap seo tricks are not working any more.
              I was being sarcastic. Of course organic traffic rocks - conversion rates are ridiculous (only word of mouth converts better IMO).

              Of course good SEO is possible. You're looking in the wrong place though.
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              • Profile picture of the author gorillas
                Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

                I was being sarcastic. Of course organic traffic rocks - conversion rates are ridiculous (only word of mouth converts better IMO).

                Of course good SEO is possible. You're looking in the wrong place though.
                Thank you for advices. Can you suggest what is right place to find seo specialist for consultation?
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              • Profile picture of the author Becker13
                Banned
                Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

                I was being sarcastic. Of course organic traffic rocks - conversion rates are ridiculous (only word of mouth converts better IMO).

                Of course good SEO is possible. You're looking in the wrong place though.
                WHAT?! The best SEOs in the world come to the WF to share their great knowledge!

                Just look how much awesome info is shared in the WSO section daily! (face palm)
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

      Spend your time and budget elsewhere...no one...and I mean NO ONE...knows how to do SEO anymore. Google has stirred the pot so much that it's a complete crap shoot...and anyone that tells you differently is lying to you.

      What a silly comment from someone trying to build a list by giving away indexing software (which by itself is a load of nonsense). No one should sign up with you because it makes no sense to get your site indexed if it can't rank. I will grant you that someone that needs indexing software doesn't know how to do SEO but that does not mean no one knows.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        What a silly comment from someone trying to build a list by giving away indexing software (which by itself is a load of nonsense). No one should sign up with you because it makes no sense to get your site indexed if it can't rank. I will grant you that someone that needs indexing software doesn't know how to do SEO but that does not mean no one knows.
        Why can't you just disagree with his post instead of going after him personally? His post stands on its own and has nothing to do with his opt-in incentive.

        Actually, I happen to agree with you on this one but not because of an indexer program.
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        • Profile picture of the author Becker13
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

          Why can't you just disagree with his post instead of going after him personally? His post stands on its own and has nothing to do with his opt-in incentive.

          Actually, I happen to agree with you on this one but not because of an indexer program.
          Dude..Thats Mike Anthony eternal WF troll

          It is said long ago he sat on a long sand papery piece of wood and vowed to take vengeance on any man, women, or child that posted anything slightly opinionated on the WF

          Beware for he may just sneak up, quote you, and then insult everything in the quote and then scamper back into his grandparents basement with your dignity and ego left shattered in his smelly wake
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

            Why can't you just disagree with his post instead of going after him personally? His post stands on its own and has nothing to do with his opt-in incentive.
            Its a Marc_l sighting. Seriously I don't see you in here anymore unless its to respond to me. No nuggets? Anyway Its totally illogical to claim I was the one that made it personal when the poster indicated that anyone in this thread or outside of it are liars if they say they know how to rank sites. Given the context and the title its basically calling anyone that claims to be a SEO professional who knows how to rank sites a liar. and the opt in has everything to do with it. It totally contradicts the premise. Hey anyway.... Welcome to on page SEO though. Brave new world eh? Good to see you guys offering it. Call me some time. Can give you some tips. We'll do lunch. - um noo forks or knives allowed.

            Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

            It is said long ago he sat on a long sand papery piece of wood and vowed to take vengeance on any man, women, or child that posted anything slightly opinionated on the WF
            I prefer the title Defender of the People from Spammers and False claims in SEO

            First page in 24 hours EVERY time?? hmmmm

            I see my work here is not done. Kato bring the car around.
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            • Profile picture of the author Marc_L
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Its a Marc_l sighting. Seriously I don't see you in here anymore unless its to respond to me. No nuggets? Anyway Its totally illogical to claim I was the one that made it personal when the poster indicated that anyone in this thread or outside of it are liars if they say they know how to rank sites.
              Hi Mike!

              It doesn't matter if he was Hitler. He said what he said and I make no defense of it I was talking about how you make it personal instead of just sticking to the facts.

              "He did it first" is an excuse a 5 year old would give. Stick to the facts.

              I'm just giving you some friendly advice, my friend.
              Given the context and the title its basically calling anyone that claims to be a SEO professional who knows how to rank sites a liar.
              Yeah I agreed with you that he was wrong.
              and the opt in has everything to do with it. It totally contradicts the premise.
              I don't see it that way as he wasn't claiming to be an expert.
              Hey anyway.... Welcome to on page SEO though. Brave new world eh? Good to see you guys offering it. Call me some time. Can give you some tips. We'll do lunch. - um noo forks or knives allowed.
              Haha, ok thanks for the offer.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by Marc_L View Post

                Hi Mike!

                It doesn't matter if he was Hitler. He said what he said and I make no defense of it I was talking about how you make it personal instead of just sticking to the facts.

                "He did it first" is an excuse a 5 year old would give. Stick to the facts.
                .

                Theres that lack of ability to understand your own words I have grown to love and have missed . There was no excuse. You said I MADE IT into something personal. I merely indicated your poor choice of words and logic. You can't look at a group of people, call them liars and it not be personal. Well I mean YOU can but I mean logically. If its already something personal no one else can make it into anything

                Those ARE the facts and the opt in makes the point because if ranking is a crap shoot and no one knows how to do it then theres no point at all in getting indexed. Lets not do the whole go round thing again. It was never very enlightening before and its started out the same way with you not even recognizing what "Made it" actually means.
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                • Profile picture of the author kingster
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  Theres that lack of ability to understand your own words I have grown to love and have missed . There was no excuse. You said I MADE IT into something personal. I merely indicated your poor choice of words and logic. You can't look at a group of people, call them liars and it not be personal. Well I mean YOU can but I mean logically. If its already something personal no one else can make it into anything

                  Those ARE the facts and the opt in makes the point because if ranking is a crap shoot and no one knows how to do it then theres no point at all in getting indexed. Lets not do the whole go round thing again. It was never very enlightening before and its started out the same way with you not even recognizing what "Made it" actually means.
                  Mike, Can you PM me?

                  I can't contact you on your website. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author 2Intense
      Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

      Spend your time and budget elsewhere...no one...and I mean NO ONE...knows how to do SEO anymore. Google has stirred the pot so much that it's a complete crap shoot...and anyone that tells you differently is lying to you.
      That's sadly the truth right there. Since the last update we're all newbs about SEO.
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      • Profile picture of the author gorillas
        Originally Posted by 2Intense View Post

        That's sadly the truth right there. Since the last update we're all newbs about SEO.
        Probably that is the way i will go. But is that possible to hire seo specialist for audit and some seo plan?
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    • Profile picture of the author Becker13
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Marketing Fool View Post

      Spend your time and budget elsewhere...no one...and I mean NO ONE...knows how to do SEO anymore. Google has stirred the pot so much that it's a complete crap shoot...and anyone that tells you differently is lying to you.
      Lol....make a PR5 blog network...Add sites...Rank for whatever the hell you want..

      Im not sure when SEO got OMG HARD...Its easier than ever right now
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    I don't think you should sign any contract that says you have to pay but the SEO company doesn't have to perform.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vivers
    There are 3 or 4 really great ones on here that I would trust my site with if I did not handle on my own.
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    • Profile picture of the author gorillas
      Originally Posted by Vivers View Post

      There are 3 or 4 really great ones on here that I would trust my site with if I did not handle on my own.

      Sorry can you suggest any such company? Will be really grateful.
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  • Profile picture of the author daweelmac
    You can start learning SEO in your own. But be sure to abide with Google's TOS.
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    • Profile picture of the author Becker13
      Banned
      Originally Posted by daweelmac View Post

      You can start learning SEO in your own. But be sure to abide with Google's TOS.
      Yeah....never build backlinks or do SEO...

      Good advice!
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  • Profile picture of the author faithyunn
    That is why if you have an idea about SEO better to do it on your own than letting other to work for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I would spend time looking at your on page optimization before you do anything else. We did an inventory on the sites we're working on and found that over 50% of them have some sort of duplicate content on the site they are wanting to rank for.

    So before you send out a single link take care of that. The info below is what we found out about Penguin. If anyone can add to the list let me know.

    SITE DESIGN
    Google has made it clear that clean layout, logical navigation, and appealing design are now an integral factor in their determining a site's ability to gain ground in the SERPs. While using an ultra-simplistic layout to maximize CTR or a widely-used free template to save on up-front costs for bulk site building may seem appealing, you've really got to ask yourself if the potential long-run sacrifice is worth the short-term savings. Perhaps it may be; but in most cases i see it's not.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    DUPLICATE CONTENT
    It's extremely important that the text content on your site is 100% unique and original. Any pages containing content duplicated on other websites should be set with a noindex attribute and not targeted for search engine traffic.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    PAGE TITLE TAG - <title>Page Title</title>
    I never choose to single out one specific on-page element that is more important than all else, but if i did, it would be the page title tag. Along with the meta description tag, they're the only pieces of your website that are explicitly displayed to visitors in the SERPs. Good practice of this tag calls for insert of a single instance of your keyword aside or within other words relevant to your site content. In addition, be sure each page on your site has a unique title tag that does not exceed a total of 10 words.

    Appropriate --> <title>Guide to YOUR KEYWORD and other keywordy things</title>
    Not Appropriate --> <title>YOUR KEYWORD</title>
    Not Appropriate --> <title>YOUR KEYWORD | A Variation of Keyword | And Another Variation of Keyword | And One More Variation of Keyword</title>

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    META DESCRIPTION TAG - <meta name="description" content="A sentence or two containing a single keyword instance within page-relevant text, unique from all other meta descriptions, and less than 160 characters." />
    With the page title tag, the meta description tag is shown to search engine visitors on the SERP as a snippet below your page title listing. Make sure it contains spam-free text with a single instance of your keyword, does not exceed 160 characters, and is present but unique on every single page of your website.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    META KEYWORDS TAG - <meta name="keywords" content="primary keyword,secondary keyword,tertiary keywords..." />
    Do not use the meta keywords tag. All of the top search engines have said for years that they ignore the meta keywords tag - but we still recommended its integration, cuz, you know, just in case. But now that Google has made it clear that the latest algorithm updates are exactly focused upon seeking out examples of keyword spam and over-optimization, it makes absolutely zero sense to hand them the master list of the terms they should seek out for examination. Dump it from every page on your website.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    TOTAL WORD COUNT & ANCHORED TEXT RATIO
    The minimum recommended word count for a single page is 450 words, but do not place all 450 words within anchors. In general, a page's normal body text should outweigh its anchor text by a margin of AT LEAST 5 to 1.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    OVERALL PAGE KEYWORD DENSITY & ON-PAGE ANCHORS
    There is no magical target keyword density which the search engines are seeking. Like many other factors, keyword density is elastic; the ideal percentage is variable and relative to other site factors. That being said, some safe generalizations we can make are: 1. Keyword density should be above 0.5% - one keyword instance per 200 words on your page; 2. Keyword density should not exceed 4% - eight keyword instances per 200 words; 3. Keywords should not appear excessively as anchor texts upon your page. Once or twice in the main navigation and once within relevant body copy is acceptable; 4. Keyword instances should be spaced apart from each other, never used in repeated spam fashion; 5. Keyword instances should not be stylized (bold, italics, underline) without reasons pertaining to enhancing visitor experience.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    PAGE HEADINGS & IMAGE ALT ATTRIBUTES
    Your keyword should appear once within an H1 tag upon your page and once within the alt attribute of one of your page's images, but never in excessive fashion. It used to be good and standard practice to see how many keywords we could jam into H1's and image alt attributes, but no longer.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    WORDPRESS TAG CLOUDS
    Do not use them.

    ================================================== ================================================== ===============

    SITE MAPS
    HTML Site Maps and XML sitemaps greatly enhance a search engine's ability to crawl your pages in an effective manner. An HTML Site Map is a page the same as any other on your website that contain a single link to every other page on your site. It should be linked to from your site's navigation or subnavigation in the same manner as the other top-level pages. An XML sitemap is an xml file containing links to your site's pages that is published for search engines. It should be named sitemap.xml and placed on the top level of your site directory - yourdomain.com/sitemap.xml. More information on XML sitemaps can be found at sitemaps.org.

    What did I miss?
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  • Profile picture of the author TakenAction
    try hubshot.
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    The best thing you can do is put yourself out there.

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  • SEO is a myth. Its never worked and still doesn't work. Haven't you heard? Google did another update.

    /endsarcasm
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  • Profile picture of the author Suir1980
    if they really are so good at seo then they'd be promoting their own websites and making bank from them instead of trying to dupe ppl into thinking they know how to rank somebody else's website

    seo services are really just like wsos... all hype, no substance
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Suir1980 View Post

      if they really are so good at seo then they'd be promoting their own websites and making bank from them instead of trying to dupe ppl into thinking they know how to rank somebody else's website

      seo services are really just like wsos... all hype, no substance
      If people were really good at brain surgery they would operate on their own brains only.
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    • Originally Posted by Suir1980 View Post

      if they really are so good at seo then they'd be promoting their own websites and making bank from them instead of trying to dupe ppl into thinking they know how to rank somebody else's website

      seo services are really just like wsos... all hype, no substance

      LOL

      I have over 30 websites im currently making money from with clickbank and CPA.

      Funny post though, thanks for the chuckle
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    • Profile picture of the author SEO Haven
      Originally Posted by Suir1980 View Post

      if they really are so good at seo then they'd be promoting their own websites and making bank from them instead of trying to dupe ppl into thinking they know how to rank somebody else's website

      seo services are really just like wsos... all hype, no substance
      Who says we don't have sites of our own ranking on page 1? Ever wondered where original screenshots come from? Surely not all of them found on the internet are Photo-shopped?

      But yes, I agree that there are many BS SEO companies out there. I've heard "experts" asking the most ridiculous and basic questions like "what is panda" or "how to get backlinks". These people fool others into thinking they know something about SEO, and that sucks for the rest of us.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryPabelate
    Banned
    Any professional SEO has to learn these updates and they may also be confused at this time..
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  • Profile picture of the author Capbell
    Come on guys, why is it that in every single thread I look, it's the same.... It all boils down to people claiming to be experts at ranking websites and the constant remarks of "seo is easy. Click my signature. I have loads of sites ranked number one. Click my signature, buy my seo services" comments. Can't you guys add something constructive instead of constantly peddling your "seo services"?

    To the original poster:

    Unfortunately, finding a "good seo company" isn't straightforward at all. You're much better off forgetting about Google and hiring a good marketing person who can get your brand/products/services/whatever to your prospective customers in more clever ways. There was a time when the internet did not exist and entrepreneurs still made it big. Go back to basics. The basics still work, you just need to be smart about it.

    P.s I just re-read and realised that you are selling web design. Why are you not looking at the Yellow Pages and looking for companies with huge banners but no websites? Call them and sell to them properly.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Capbell View Post

      Come on guys, why is it that in every single thread I look, it's the same.... It all boils down to people claiming to be experts at ranking websites and the constant remarks of "seo is easy. Click my signature. I have loads of sites ranked number one. Click my signature, buy my seo services" comments. Can't you guys add something constructive instead of constantly peddling your "seo services"?

      To the original poster:

      Unfortunately, finding a "good seo company" isn't straightforward at all. You're much better off forgetting about Google and hiring a good marketing person who can get your brand/products/services/whatever to your prospective customers in more clever ways. There was a time when the internet did not exist and entrepreneurs still made it big. Go back to basics. The basics still work.
      Finding a good lawyer is hard. Finding a good attorney is hard. Finding a good house builder is hard. And those things really matter. It's not just SEO services that have a lot of scammers and crap in there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
    Go pick the company ranked #1 google when searching the keyword SEO....cant get much more proof than that right?
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    SEO is real. If you have enough money you can rank. Same way if you have enough money, you can get pretty much anything you want in this world.

    I wish I could hire WikiPedia and Jimbo Wales to my SEO Geekgirl
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  • Hello there!
    Of course, SEO is real. There maybe a lot of changes in terms of how google rank websites. But once done correctly, especially by a reputable and experienced company, SEo will be able to lift your traffic. Back up SEO with organic traffic by building connections online and using social media.
    Regards
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  • Originally Posted by gorillas View Post

    Hello warrior community, I really need some advice in order to understand what should we do. We are selling digital products and services related to web design for last 4 years. Unfortunately we don't have in-house SEO specialist and i simply don't have time to handle that. We received a lot of back-links from our themes and many blogs post but unfortunately our organic traffic is almost same as we had 2 years ago. That is why we hired 1 year ago seo company. We had positive results for 1-2 months but with Panda update our traffic decreased even lower then we had before all link building. I really think that they used links placed on links farms and some other spammy tricks and that was main reason of our organic traffic decline.

    So our first experience was quite negative. We are also were trying to find other specialist but we got either "no-guarantee" monthly quotes more 10 000 USD or found same spammy companies with budgets lower 1 000 USD.

    So no we want to start working on our site seo again but i really don't sure if we should do that in house or it's still possible to find good specialist with reasonable budget.

    Any advice is really appreciated.
    PM me. I can help. SEO still works, you just need to know how to do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author thepresence
    Gorillas,

    Small businesses are in a tough position. In the past, you typically had two choices: do SEO yourself, but this is like learning a whole new career OR pay an SEO company a bundle of money, as you did, and get terrible results. But, now there is a third choice:


    Hope this helps,
    TP
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