Making money With a Penguin, A panda and yeah SEO - Adsense You Suck

329 replies
  • SEO
  • |
I know the adsense guys won't like this thread and will try and snipe it

but its time to lay the cards on the table and give people a business model that works post Penguin, Panda, EMD and the rest of the furry animal updates thats surely still to come. first off lets get the truth out there that at first glance will have the adsense guys laughing

Google doesn't like adsense sites. In fact they pretty much hate adsense sites, never wanted them and will tank them in a heart beat at the slightest excuse.

Thats right I said it and it true. People confuse themselves and feel hurt and offended when google tanks their adsense sites because they thought they were in partnership with Google. Google NEVER saw it that way and frankly its very likely that Google is motivated FINANCIALLY to aim their algo updates at tanking strictly adsense sites.

Adsense was designed to get traffic from webmasters sites that had their own traffic NOT Google search engine traffic. Doing SEO for Adsenses sites already puts you in conflict with adsense goals as far as Google is concerned. google never ever wanted sites that didn't already have their own success at gaining traffic. It being an open system is what led to that.

NOTE: for clarification a site that is already successful and has its own traffic and business model but that happens to place an adsense ad here and there is not an adsense site as herein defined. Its an otherwise successful site with a business model that allows it to do mutliple advertising or monetization - however that is NOT what 95% of people on this board have and especially not newbies have.

Its them giving you money for THEIR traffic and as such you cut into their bottom line. If the traffic was at a Google search engine to begin with what they want is for the searcher to click the adwords link right there and cut you out not go to your site and then come back to an adwords customer.

You are a detriment even a leech to their bottom line plus you junk up their search results which embarasses them and potential causes them to lose market share. IF you have your own traffic then google can live with you and pay you but from their prospective not love you because they would prefer that all traffic started with them

Second truth - Adsense as a business model has absolutely sucked for most people. Most of the success stories back up the first truth. they generally are not Adsense sites created with adsense in mind. They were successful in getting and keeping traffic. The webmaster decided to put a few adsense ads on after building it - not building it for adsense.

Even then adsense pays pennies on the dollar its been bad for far more people on this forum than good but a few people claiming success have perpetuated the myth that its a good business model for people in general to go after. It IS NOT unless you already have a successful site online getting good traffic

So whats the alternative if you don't have your own products to sell? Why not turn to something that has proven to work for DECADES, With a proven business models that employs millions each day.

Commission sales. We have seen people here do well with affiliate marketing. JV's are another form of this but it also extends far further than the traditional IM kind of affiliate /commission programs. Practically every industry in the world has companies willing to pay out for customers and many pay far more than pennies on the dollar. You can search on the internet and find ton loads of companies willing to pay you for leads, sales, customers with almost no end in site in almost every niche imaginable and you can do this on a passive simple level or even carry it to a professional level by getting certified in an area ( such as insurance as I once did). Your choice. depending on the product or service you can get checks for hundreds of dollars per customer referred. Some niches require nothing more than one sale a week and you make thousands per month.

Whats more instead of being hooked into one company your checks can come from multiple companies. Instead of venturing into niches that you know nothing about (because of keywords), don't like and will never build authority sites on you can start with YOUR interests, YOUR specialties and what YOU love even pick up new loves and start sites on those as well.

See the forums these last ten days? Ranking for keywords doesn't give you control of anything. As we have seen you can lose that any day. That does NOT mean Seo is not a viable advertising model but that people have used it entirely the wrong way.

SEO is to advertise your business not to be your business.

The real business is having a strong visitor base of return visitors and that can start with SEO. WF can sell anything it wants now because it has that traffic and if tomorrow it got deindexed it wouldn't matter. With billions of people connected you can make money by selling products and services YOU like from multiple companies, get return customers from the hundreds of thousands of people who like what you like (or learn to like) and be the one selling advertising slots to people. Almost no company will turn you down for a commission if you give them a bulk of sales (I have even approached some product sellers who have no commission program at all and they will make one for you if it means multiple sales).

. Best of all when you start getting return visitors who didn't use Google to come back to you again -

You won't have to cry how your whole business just went down because of a Google update.

Short version? - Theres no long term business in owning websites unless you are selling a product or service for yourself or for someone else. to 90% and more of you adsense will continue to suck as it has sucked for years. Don't make any adsense guru tell you otherwise. You are connected to the single greatest search tool ever created to find literally thousands of companies willing to pay you good money for a single customers. If you doubt this then look to adwords itself - How many companies do you see there paying $3-$20 for just a click through and multiply that by a very optimistic 10% conversion to customer rate.

takes some independent research but if you do it then you are on your way to a real business online
#adsense #making #money #panda #penguin #seo #yeah
  • Profile picture of the author bsbear
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Adsense was designed to get traffic from webmasters sites that had their own traffic NOT Google search engine traffic. Doing SEO for Adsenses sites already puts you in conflict with adsense goals as far as Google is concerned.

    Its them giving you money for THEIR traffic and as such you cut into their bottom line. If the traffic was at a Google search engine to begin with what they want is for the searcher to click the adwords link right there and cut you out not go to your site and then come back to an adwords customer.
    That's insane. Adsense pays the webmasters the same amount if their website gets organic traffic from Google or any other source.

    What you are saying is literally the opposite of what Google wants. Their 'bottom line' is made purely from taking advertiser's money and giving a cut to the webmasters. They don't make any more or less if the webmasters are getting organic traffic from Google.

    Secondly, they don't hate adsense sites. They love them.

    You are completely confused on that... what they hate are low-quality websites that are made purely for adsense.

    The reason is that there are hundreds if not thousands of high-quality sites out there that can supply the adsense/adwords traffic, they just want the highest quality sites to be the ones supplying the traffic.

    It has nothing to do with where the traffic comes from (ie. Google), but rather the quality of the web page itself.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7122929].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      LOL Didn't I say the Adsense guys would get upset

      Originally Posted by bsbear View Post

      That's insane. Adsense pays the webmasters the same amount if their website gets organic traffic from Google or any other source.

      What you are saying is literally the opposite of what Google wants. Their 'bottom line' is made purely from taking advertiser's money and giving a cut to the webmasters. They don't make any more or less if the webmasters are getting organic traffic from Google.
      Who in the world said google pays more to any group? You gotta learn to read my man. The facts are undeniable and only a truly insane person would even try to deny them. If the traffic originates at google then GOOGLE makes more money from the searcher clicking the adwords being displayed on the search result page because they don't have to pay the adsense guy a dime.

      Adsense WAS created to get traffic from other sites that had it not to circulate Google's own traffic.


      Secondly, they don't hate adsense sites. They love them.

      You are completely confused on that... what they hate are low-quality websites that are made purely for adsense.
      No you are confused. there is no love in business. Google wants the traffic if you have it. If you don't then theres nothing to love. If all you are doing is getting traffic from google they don't need you

      It has nothing to do with where the traffic comes from (ie. Google), but rather the quality of the web page itself.
      thats totally naive. google is a business and has no interest in paying you for their traffic if they don't have to. Again adsense was originally designed to get traffic they did not have such as return traffic and traffic from other sources not as an avenue to give people money from their own traffic.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7122995].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sufeyh
    Google doesn't hate adsense.. adsense/adwords accounts for majority of their revenue. Google hates how people are exploiting SEO to rank low quality made-for-adsense sites.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7122947].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bsbear
      Originally Posted by sufeyh View Post

      Google doesn't hate adsense.. adsense/adwords accounts for majority of their revenue. Google hates how people are exploiting SEO to rank low quality made-for-adsense sites.
      Exactly. No offense, but I don't understand why tons of 'respected' SEO professionals keep saying that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7122990].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
        Originally Posted by bsbear View Post

        Exactly. No offense, but I don't understand why tons of 'respected' SEO professionals keep saying that.
        Google does hate MFA sites.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7122996].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by sufeyh View Post

      Google doesn't hate adsense.. adsense/adwords accounts for majority of their revenue. Google hates how people are exploiting SEO to rank low quality made-for-adsense sites.
      Like the op states if you have traffic to your site then google is fine with paying you for it. If a site exists that is successful and has traffic and has some adsense on it then thats all well and good but sites that exists to be adsense sites are under the gun. Anyone can look around and see this.

      Originally Posted by sufeyh View Post

      i don't think lottery is a good way to put it, more like a short term source of income. you shouldn't expect it to work long term and you should always have a backup plan if you decide to use adsense because there is so much uncertainty and risk in SEO, you never know when google decides to ban your adsense account or when google decides to release an update that kills all your sites.

      You are stuck in your thinking. There is nothing unstable about SEO. Its an advertising medium. If the minute you stop advertising your business it completely disappears then your business SUCKS not SEO.

      As for neps point about newbies learning - fair enough but why can't they learn form something far more viable like some form of commission/affiliate setup. Right now newbies learning from adsense are not going to learn a lot because the kinds of sites newbies build for adsense are EXACTLY what google is targeting. The other thing I didn't cover in the Op (it was long enough) was how this has started out thousands of people down the wrong track of not building real websites.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123023].message }}
    • Originally Posted by sufeyh View Post

      Google doesn't hate adsense.. adsense/adwords accounts for majority of their revenue. Google hates how people are exploiting SEO to rank low quality made-for-adsense sites.
      Hello there!
      I totally agree with this. There are so many websites that keep on appearing these days which do not offer the promised quality contents. I get the part that we all want to earn money, who does not? But making dummy sites will only ruin everything and that includes your reputation and how google adsense and SEO work.
      Regards
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7133847].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author rain21
      Originally Posted by sufeyh View Post

      Google doesn't hate adsense.. adsense/adwords accounts for majority of their revenue. Google hates how people are exploiting SEO to rank low quality made-for-adsense sites.
      this is the reason.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7139027].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
    When I read this.. Google hates sites that are made to have Adsense ads on them.. which is different then a site that was developed to answer a need for its visitors that just so happens has Adsense on it.

    Part of me would love to debate this but even watching how my habits changed when I put Adsense on my site to how things have changed again since remove Adsense, I agree completely. I now view Adsense as the short bus of IM but I won't dare tell someone new to IM to not sure it because it is a great learning experience. Just don't get so hooked on the stupid penny clicks that you stop looking forward.

    Adsense is like the lottery, yes people do get the big checks but odds are you won't.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7122992].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author sufeyh
      Originally Posted by Nelapsi View Post

      When I read this.. Google hates sites that are made to have Adsense ads on them.. which is different then a site that was developed to answer a need for its visitors that just so happens has Adsense on it.

      Part of me would love to debate this but even watching how my habits changed when I put Adsense on my site to how things have changed again since remove Adsense, I agree completely. I now view Adsense as the short bus of IM but I won't dare tell someone new to IM to not sure it because it is a great learning experience. Just don't get so hooked on the stupid penny clicks that you stop looking forward.

      Adsense is like the lottery, yes people do get the big checks but odds are you won't.
      i don't think lottery is a good way to put it, more like a short term source of income. you shouldn't expect it to work long term and you should always have a backup plan if you decide to use adsense because there is so much uncertainty and risk in SEO, you never know when google decides to ban your adsense account or when google decides to release an update that kills all your sites.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123022].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Your totally clueless about Adsense yet your giving advise on the subject.

    Yep, typical Warrior Forum thread.

    The thread title should have been:

    Guys that don't run Adsense - while busy building spammy link networks to get traffic from Google SERPs, because they don't know how to generate their own traffic.
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123096].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bsbear
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Your totally clueless about Adsense yet your giving advise on the subject.

      Yep, typical Warrior Forum thread.

      The thread title should have been:
      Exactly.

      OP has shown his intelligence by stating that Google doesn't like people who create adsense websites. Or in other words, he thinks that Google is running a program that makes them millions of dollars per year even though 'they don't like adsense websites.'

      Lol. Nice try Mike.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123113].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by bsbear View Post

        Exactly.

        OP has shown his intelligence by stating that Google doesn't like people who create adsense websites. Or in other words, he thinks that Google is running a program that makes them millions of dollars per year even though 'they don't like adsense websites.'

        Lol. Nice try Mike.
        I'm sorry Bsbear but you are just being ignorant. The OP clealry states that if you have your own traffic then Google is fine with paying you for that traffic. Google does not make a dime off adsense. the only people who pay them are adwords advertisers. IF they can get the searcher to click links on the 'search page they don't need you and make more money without you. It doesn't matter how you and yuke or anyone else tries to snipe , derail question intelligence or anything else. what matters are the facts. I've even put a note for those clueless enough not to get the point so you guys have even less of a point than before.

        adsense sucks for most people on this board and should be totally abandoned as a passive way to make money for newbies. It leads to the newbie creating the exact kinds of sites that Google is targeting.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123173].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Your totally clueless about Adsense yet your giving advise on the subject.

      Yep, typical Warrior Forum thread.

      The thread title should have been:
      I was expecting you Yuke. I had you in mind as one of the main snipers because you have been leading people down the path of thinking adsense was a good model when it sucks for the vast majority of people. You cant dismantle anything n the Op so you do a flame.

      You don't have a clue what I do or do not know about adsense and your attack on Networks and SEO networks is childish because many of the same people who you encourage to run down adsense have to rank and use such networks to do so. lol
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123141].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I was expecting you Yuke. I had you in mind as one of the main snipers because you have been leading people down the path of thinking adsense was a good model when it sucks for the vast majority of people. You cant dismantle anything n the Op so you do a flame.

        Mikey, I know you had me in mind, you like stirring the pot here on the forums to see If you can get your little pissing match going. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why you created this thread, you told us why in the first sentence. The majority of the net calls that trolling, we'll be nice & call it a debate (lol).

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I know the adsense guys won't like this thread



        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        You don't have a clue what I do or do not know about adsense and your attack on Networks and SEO networks is childish because many of the same people who you encourage to run down adsense have to rank and use such networks to do so. lol
        I know what you do, it's in your forum sig. Einstein. You teach people how to build spammy networks, then you have the stones to flame the same people your selling to, that are also running Adsense.

        You claim you teach Adsense guys to build spammy link networks to rank on Google SERPs, then create a thread ripping on those guys. Nice, real nice. That shows a lot about a person.

        Looks like your on both sides of the fence, selling links to rank a page, yet at the same time you claim that's the wrong way to do things.

        Get your story straight & get back with me.
        Signature
        Hi
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123341].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Mikey, I know you had me in mind, you like stirring the pot here on the forums to see If you can get your little pissing match going. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why you created this thread, you told us why in the first sentence. The majority of the net calls that trolling, we'll be nice & call it a debate (lol).
          So full of venom eh Yuke. Its not a debate yet because in two posts you haven't addressed a single point (because you know you can't). I didn't write that whole long post to rile up anybody but I have been around three plus years and know where the board is at and what the some board members holds as sacred cows and how people like yourself would respond.

          I don;t care anymore about all the bile anyone gets whenever they state the truth about adsense. Penguin, Panda and Emd updates has me more caring about the newbs you guys are deceiving.

          So I knew you would get ugly -I'm a prophet. what can I say

          As for the rest all personal attacks and no substance - You are just flat out bold faced lying. I never claimed to teach adsense guys how to rank using networks. My course teaches people to build networks PERIOD. I dont even know what half of them are into and its not a requirement for me to know but anyone that has ever asked I've told them to build real money sites.

          So go ahead and show all the good people al the times in the last three years I have taught people to use google adsense. If you can't then they will know who has the character issues

          I routinely turn away adsense sites when doing SEO and not because I am a saint but because just linking to too many adsense sites puts your network at risk. so go ahead and call hypcorisy that doesn't exist and attack and flame trying to evade admitting that you can't answer ANY point in the OP.

          You are fooling only those who already want to be fooled and showing the kind of person your really are just like you said.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123466].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author retsek
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Your totally clueless about Adsense yet your giving advise on the subject.

      Yep, typical Warrior Forum thread.

      The thread title should have been:
      lol ....pretty much this.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123304].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by retsek View Post

        lol ....pretty much this.
        lol..what you got to compalin about ret? Its better than buying links over on DP and buy them links you do.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123318].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    The Warrior Forum is not the place for this kind of talk, people here are to set in their ways.

    Adsense and Amazon are gods here, that will never change.
    Signature

    Somewhere watching Power.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123101].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      Hey Mike, stop stealing my Anti-Marketing ideas, or either post them own my site, I need the content. I received the same response when I made this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...se-amazon.html.

      The Warrior Forum is not the place for this kind of talk, people here are to set in their ways, they rather follow someone who suggests making MFA authority sites, than someone telling them to focus on other avenues of business.

      Adsense and Amazon are gods here, that will never change.
      Nah....This is waaaaay too important for me to let slide so I am going over my 5,000 post on this one. tired of crap being sold to people. After watching people crying over panda, Penguin, Emds and more to come its totally assinine for people to continue to push that adsense is this business model that is so great for newbies when it reeks and leads them to build crappy sites to begin with.

      If you are not an already successful site with traffic of your own as spelled out now three or four times by me then yes adsense SUCKS.

      Since the vast majority of people on this board have no such traffic of their own then its time to take on the issue head to head even if the the adsense gurus get all upset.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123243].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Nah....This is waaaaay too important for me to let slide so I am going over my 5,000 post on this one. tired of crap being sold to people. After watching people crying over panda, Penguin, Emds and more to come its totally assinine for people to continue to push that adsense is this business model that is so great for newbies when it reeks and leads them to build crappy sites to begin with.

        If you are not an already successful site with traffic of your own as spelled out now three or four times by me then yes adsense SUCKS.

        Since the vast majority of people on this board have no such traffic of their own then its time to take on the issue head to head even if the the adsense gurus get all upset.
        People do wear rose coloured glasses when it comes to adsense.
        I personally am not 100% bothered about it, certainly wouldnt build a website around it.

        People don't realise that where people are making the real money is in real product/service/ebooks and affiliate but even that is not a business module
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123258].message }}
  • Getting organic searches to not just adsense sites but legitimate sites has become a challenge with Google these days. One of my sites had its traffic halved in just on month thanks to these string of updates. Some of these sites have been going strong for over 10 years and don't use any spammy techniques. A lot of good sites are now gone from the searches and are being replaced by useless searches.
    Signature
    Thailand Car Exporter Dealer : [URL="http://toyota-hilux-revo.org"]Toyota Hilux Revo Thailand/URL] : Dubai Car Exporter Dealer
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123112].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
    The whole purpose of adsense is because those who are not a big business or not ranked at all or high enough on Google who want more traffic to their website

    - Now if nobody or barely anyone was to have adsense then not many being would be buying into any adwords programme, which then results in Google losing money!

    The only reason people pay Google for adwords is because they know not only will they be seen on the side of each search relating to their keyword, but they will also be seen on other websites with good traffic DESPITE whether that traffic come from Google or not!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123157].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Geekgirl01 View Post

      The whole purpose of adsense is because those who are not a big business or not ranked at all or high enough on Google who want more traffic to their website

      - Now if nobody or barely anyone was to have adsense then not many being would be buying into any adwords programme, which then results in Google losing money!!
      This is a classic example of how people have confused newbies into thinking pure nonsense about their business. adsense is only a net gain for Google for sites that have their own traffic. google makes ton loads of dollars off adwords without adsense . If google cared about losing money by lowering the amount of adsense sites then why do they ROUTINELY erradicate thousands of them at a time. because they just love quality over money?

      Get real. Say over and over again - Google is a business, google is a business. If you say it enough it might sink in.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123203].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        This is a classic example of how people have confused newbies into thinking pure nonsense about their business. adsense is only a net gain for Google for sites that have their own traffic. google makes ton loads of dollars off adwords without adsense . If google cared about losing money by lowering the amount of adsense sites then why do they ROUTINELY erradicate thousands of them at a time. because they just love quality over money?

        Get real. Say over and over again - Google is a business, google is a business. If you say it enough it might sink in.
        Yeah Google is a business and yes they are only in it for their own bank balance and not ours.

        But seriously without adwords then there is no adsense! If they didnt have any websites to display adsense adverts then not many people would be paying for adwords which means google lose money.

        Im not disagreeing with the fact that Google are in it all for the money and yes all they care about in themself.....but they have a right to dont they?
        They built their search engine so if they want to only be in it for the money then good on them.

        If you dont like them or how they work then simply dont use them for any of your income!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123227].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Geekgirl01 View Post

          Yeah Google is a business and yes they are only in it for their own bank balance and not ours.

          But seriously without adwords then there is no adsense! If they didnt have any websites to display adsense adverts then not many people would be paying for adwords which means google lose money.
          two things.

          A) adwords and adsense are not bound together. Adwords can exist without the other

          B) sites with traffic of their own as I have said at least five times are exactly what google designed adsense for.

          so google will continue to make money off adwords without adsense and adsense for already successful sites traffic wise are welcome by Google.

          So there is no scenario under which google would not have sites with significant traffic still using their adsense program. It however SUCKS and now has proven to suck for most marketers for years now and its time to stop pretending it hasn't.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123300].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123216].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      I don't understand why people have such a big problem with at least considering other options, all Mike said was go after a more stable business model, so many of you complain about losing traffic in updates or getting banned from Adsense.


      You wouldn't have to worry about that if you built direct traffic and created your own services and products. I said this before, IMDb, gets over 3 million visitors a month to there site from direct traffic, if Google de-indexed them it would mean absolutely nothing.

      I actually 100% agree with Mike in the sense silly people really shouldnt build a website around adsense..... thats not a business is it
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123230].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Mike, I'm ready to just save my ring for you instead of my girl and the WF. .
    Signature

    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123223].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

      Mike, I'm ready to just save my ring for you instead of my girl and the WF. .

      LOL literally. everybody at my house is asking me what I am laughing about. touche. Wouldn't mind meeting you and her some time. I made so many jokes about her and you I feel like I should.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123262].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    The real money is made selling SEO services to suckers. Am I right?

    During a gold rush you make the most cash selling tools to the miners, not by digging for gold yourself. Digging the gold is dirty work and rarely pans out.

    See Levi Strauss for more information!
    Signature
    Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123278].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      During a gold rush you make the most cash selling tools to the miners, not by digging for gold yourself. Digging the gold is dirty work and rarely pans out.

      See Levi Strauss for more information!

      Yep and when its fools gold the person selling the SEo IS the only one making money
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123308].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sufeyh
        I think a lot of people don't get his point in this thread, even though I don't completely agree with him, some of his points are valid. But personally I am not a fan of SEO so my opinions might be biased, anyway his point is:

        Basically this is the process of the searchers:

        1. Searches xxx keyword

        2. Adwords ads appear in the SERPS for xxx keyword on top;
        While organic search for xxx keyword appears below. (where the Adsense sites will be)

        3. If someone clicks on the adwords ads in the SERPS, Google earns y amount of money. But if someone clicks on the Adsense site, they see the same ads for the same keywords on the site, Google gets 30% of y amount because Google pays commission to the site owner.

        So the point is, why would Google want to earn 30% of what they can earn when they can earn 100% with their own traffic. Unless you are bringing in traffic from some other place, it doesn't make sense for Google to earn 30% of what their supposed to earn because it is the same people clicking those ads.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123347].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by sufeyh View Post

          So the point is, why would Google want to earn 30% of what they can earn when they can earn 100% with their own traffic. Unless you are bringing in traffic from some other place, it doesn't make sense for Google to earn 30% of what their supposed to earn because it is the same people clicking those ads.
          There ya go. Thats exactly how the maths work and exactly the business rationale
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123525].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Johnny Danes
      Banned
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan;7123278[B

      ]The real money is made selling SEO services to suckers. Am I right?[/B]

      You are 100% correct with this. The fools on this forum will never learn. I feel like selling SEO services. But I'm too honest. The fools need someone to look out from them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7138489].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    You're in California?
    Signature

    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123330].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

      You're in California?
      Nah the real coast - East/ Orlando but I will be in Cali next year on mY way to Hawaii If you see a black guy with Vince Vaughn at your wedding then you know its me.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123366].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Nah the real coast - East/ Orlando but I will be in Cali next year on mY way to Hawaii If you see a black guy with Vince Vaughn at your wedding then you know its me.
        Make that 2 black guys, yea that's right homie, brace ya self fool, we crashing the wedding.
        Signature

        Somewhere watching Power.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123392].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          Make that 2 black guys, yea that's right homie, brace ya self fool, we crashing the wedding.
          Umm... Nu - huh....sorry man I am sticking with Vince

          two black guys crashing a wedding is just the opening for a movie about Alcatraz or the remake of Jail Break. Aint no way an all mahogany crew does't get a call for the po po.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123499].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
          You do realize only around 10% of search ads are clicked by search engine users? That means the other 90% are visiting websites that appear in the organic listings or they perform another search or abandon completely. What does that mean?

          Adsense adds to Google's bottom-line as sites in the organic listings that publish Adsense ads gives Google a second bite at the cherry. Even though that bite is smaller it still adds up!

          There isn't anything wrong with monetizing with Adsense but it should be used as just one method of monetizing, just like SEO should be just one source of traffic.

          Google's search quality team doesn't hate Adsense publishers! What they hate are sites that are reducing the quality of their user's experience... aka... thin 10 page sites full of fluff.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123502].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

            You do realize only around 10% of search ads are clicked by search engine users? That means the other 90% are visiting websites that appear in the organic listings or they perform another search or abandon completely. What does that mean?

            Adsense adds to Google's bottom-line as sites in the organic listings that publish Adsense adds gives Google a second bite at the cherry. Even though that bite is smaller it still adds up!
            The click throughs on the adsense sites are even less in that the person who doesn't click on ads doesn't generally click on ones at adsense sites either so it not much of a second shot PLUS most people don't find everything they want in their first click through so they come back often to the serp page. So theres no doubt what soever that Google makes more money converting them there than they do on the adsense site

            but what does google's history teach us? That google doesn't care that much about your second go round or they would suffer monetarily from kicking thousands of them to the curb at a time regardless of quality. They don't even when they kick the top placers to the curb.

            Now if its an adsense site that has its own traffic then theres traffic they NEVER had a shot at and never shown any ad to PLUS those are the sites that tend to have quality , user base and trust that would more incline people to click on their ads.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123588].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author nest28
              [DELETED]
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123674].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                Again, Mike, leave this alone, it will get you nowhere here, I learned the hard way, people only want to take shots at you, they don't want to actually discuss anything or else the OP, would be the topic, not your service or what pics you have in your sig. Now I'm out, deuces.
                Bleh not worried about a few snipers. They have their function - they bounce the thread so that more people see it and I knew coming in that they would be here attacking. So its all good
                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123706].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author nest28
                  [DELETED]
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123813].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Complex
                    [DELETED]
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124104].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by Complex View Post


                      OP wouldn't be getting as much backlash if he'd just said Google hates MFA sites and didn't use the term, Adsense sites as if they are all MFA. Somewhere in there he qualified what he meant, but it would have communicated much differently had he just said MFA sites from the get go. I think he knows that, though. Trolling ain't easy, and I say that even though I pretty much agree with him.
                      I added a note because people were showing how dense they were not because there was anything wrong with my communication . In the original OP I said point blank that if you had existing traffic then Google would pay you for it and live fine with that. Nothing changed in that and it should have been obvious to a child that the op states flat out that adsense can work for sites with that kind of traffic to begin with (sheesh its point blank in the op). They are however not "Adsense sites any more than CNN putting an ad for Seomoz makes them an Seo site, an advertising site or a Seomoz site. As for backlash. haven't you read Yuke's response - it doesn't phase me. Theres actually less of it than I was ready for.

                      Besides, this is WaFo where if you use any more than 2 lines of text... half the people reading it are going to be hearing some imaginary debate going on in their head
                      half the people that post in this thread but umm no...If anyone is so silly that you can't read more than two lines of text then they should just skip where grown ups post. If they can't read beyond that then nothing will help them anyway. As has been pointed out WF is for adults 18 and over. Its a business site not a extended IM version of twitter or Forrest Gump's academy for marketing.

                      Ya'll can get your box of chocloates elsewhere .
                      Signature

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124368].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              ...So theres no doubt what soever that Google makes more money converting them there than they do on the adsense site
              No argument here - they do get most of their income from their own search engine as these clicks are far more costly for an Adwords advertiser. But take away Adsense and it will make a huge dent in their profits

              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              but what does google's history teach us? That google doesn't care that much about your second go round or they would suffer monetarily from kicking thousands of them to the curb at a time regardless of quality. They don't even when they kick the top placers to the curb.
              They don't care because the numbers will always be in their favour. The sheer number of Adsense sites ensures they will still profit from publishers. Although one site loses another will gain!

              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Now if its an adsense site that has its own traffic then theres traffic they NEVER had a shot at and never shown any ad to PLUS those are the sites that tend to have quality , user base and trust that would more incline people to click on their ads.
              Nah, return traffic are the blindest of the lot (ad blind that is).

              Sure, Google benefit from a site that gets mostly direct traffic but they also benefit from other sites that rely on search engine traffic! If sources of traffic was such a big deal to Google then they could just make that a requirement before people are accepted into the Adsense program.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123677].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

                Nah, return traffic are the blindest of the lot (ad blind that is).
                apples and oranges. that happens over repeated visits all of which google isn't getting at all on their sites. Plus sites with return traffic get organic links as well because people who visit them tend more to link to them so theres fresh visitors that come with that and word of mouth. look google has had a stance in the past about sites made for adsense so it pretty such telling you they wanted sites that existed prior to an apart from adsense. Thats just a fact

                If sources of traffic was such a big deal to Google then they could just make that a requirement before people are accepted into the Adsense program.
                Nah that would be too much hassle and putting up the requirement and having a long process to go through to verify would only dissaude even webmasters that would qualify. they keep it open because its easier to manage plus there are always smaller site that develop their own non google search traffic as well that they benefit from
                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123789].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author bsbear
            Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

            You do realize only around 10% of search ads are clicked by search engine users? That means the other 90% are visiting websites that appear in the organic listings or they perform another search or abandon completely. What does that mean?

            Adsense adds to Google's bottom-line as sites in the organic listings that publish Adsense ads gives Google a second bite at the cherry. Even though that bite is smaller it still adds up!

            There isn't anything wrong with monetizing with Adsense but it should be used as just one method of monetizing, just like SEO should be just one source of traffic.

            Google's search quality team doesn't hate Adsense publishers! What they hate are sites that are reducing the quality of their user's experience... aka... thin 10 page sites full of fluff.
            This.

            Mike, you have a picture of Matt Cutts in your signature, lol.

            Explain to us how you are against SEO?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123616].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by bsbear View Post

              This.

              Mike, you have a picture of Matt Cutts in your signature, lol.

              Explain to us how you are against SEO?



              Sorry man but some of you guys need to get tutored in English or something. If its your second language then you really should not rely on your abilities to comprehend the langauge until you are ready

              Where in the world did I say anything about being against SEO? What I said is that SEO is advertising for your business which is all it is and should be - not your entire business
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123675].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author thomco55
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                What I said is that SEO is advertising for your business which is all it is and should be - not your entire business
                i don't agree with that seo is only advertising for business. it also use for branding, site popularity, internet marketing.
                And after all most of persons made a website to get the business or make his identity on internet. and seo is do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                Signature

                Kwikweb solution | Everytime Ready to Help YOU :)

                http://mykwikweb.co.uk
                | SEO Services UK

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7132209].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by thomco55 View Post

                  i don't agree with that seo is only advertising for business. it also use for branding, site popularity, internet marketing.
                  And after all most of persons made a website to get the business or make his identity on internet. and seo is do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  Your disagreeing makes no point. advertising does all those things you just mentioned. Tell Budweiser their advertising doesn't build their brand, their popularity or that it isn't marketing or doesn't give them an identity in the marketplace.

                  SEo is just putting your site in front of peoples eyes. That IS advertising.
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7132276].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Ben Acharyaa
                  Originally Posted by thomco55 View Post

                  i don't agree with that seo is only advertising for business. it also use for branding, site popularity, internet marketing.
                  And after all most of persons made a website to get the business or make his identity on internet. and seo is do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  At first glance i thought this was Yukon. lol that logo looks so similar.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7133036].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author nik0
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Ben Acharyaa View Post

                    At first glance i thought this was Yukon. lol that logo looks so similar.
                    LOL same here
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7134038].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Nah the real coast - East/ Orlando but I will be in Cali next year on mY way to Hawaii If you see a black guy with Vince Vaughn at your wedding then you know its me.
        Nice! If you see a brown skin Filipino that can pass for a black guy when he gets a line up, then you know it's me .
        Signature

        RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123767].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

          Nice! If you see a brown skin Filipino that can pass for a black guy when he gets a line up, then you know it's me .

          Who you kiddin. You can't pass for black but I got good news. You and the GF can pass for Hawaiian so pack the bags bro. I needs me a native guide. We'll drop vince off on Rodeo pick up Nest and head out.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123814].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
    You men are more bitchy than women
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123489].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bsbear
    Google makes a cut off the top on adsense type sites.

    It is only hurting their profit margin, technically, but the profit wouldn't even be there if got rid of microniche-type sites on adsense.

    You haven't said anything concrete yet. Google doesn't lose any money on the adsense sites, they only make money from them.

    Let's pretend that you are right --

    Google shuts down all MNS or sites with the sole purpose to make money from adsense.
    All they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot, it won't increase their adwords revenue, it will decrease their overall profit, and they will lose a ton of money.

    Put plainly, its an ignorant claim.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123822].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123860].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        People read the OP same as I did, but only chose to focus on the Adsense part, why? idk. No one is talking about contacting companies directly and making profit from sending them sells, Like Mike stated.
        Well let me tell you why that is. Adsense is easy, quick and fairly mindless to get going. Since everyone is basically doing it then you can buy into a technique and/or software not have to think about what you want to sell or promote and go forward. When you run into a problem there are a host of people doing the same thing you can turn to.

        SO its good that way. When you do a site that you want to really sell from you have to think for yourself , pick out products you want to promote and pick companies that will pay etc. That isn't a formula paint by number kind of deal and requires thought and putting some of your self into it. Plus if you are going to build trust and repeat visitors and traffic you have to know something about t\what your site is about. MFAs allow your mind to be on auto pilot and along the way is a bunch of software that just about picks out niches for you etc.

        Some work but its minimal. Its pull is easy to see the only problem is that it makes little more than pocket change for most people so all the ease and social company and software overlooks the whole reason to be doing any of it

        actually making money.

        Not to fear at the end of the rainbow there are people who claim to be making money at it so that replaces for the actual reality of not making money - hope springs eternal.

        whether those people are really making the money they claims isn't even the main factor. Its that even among those who claim they are doing well they are outweighed by a ton load of people who are not like the average Imer - they have tried and have put up sites and it just hasn't worked for them.

        For them and most people the model just completely sucks. Its not even a given that for those it does work it is even the most beneficial system they could have put in place for their sites that have enough traffic.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124024].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dennis09
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        The point is to let newbies know there is more to marketing than adsense, I don't think people would be so quick to throw up a 5 page sites, if it was based on there own products/service, they would actually care about the quality of the site.

        People read the OP same as I did, but only chose to focus on the Adsense part, why? idk. No one is talking about contacting companies directly and making profit from sending them sells, Like Mike stated.

        No one is talking about getting direct traffic, also stated in OP, I notice people here see what they want to see.
        Because that's already being talked about. In fact there's a whole subsection of this forum dedicated to it. Go see for yourself. It's not exactly breaking news. :rolleyes:
        Signature
        There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124076].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      Damn!!!!, that felt good.
      I'll put you down for the Hawaii trip then


      Originally Posted by bsbear View Post

      Google makes a cut off the top on adsense type sites.

      It is only hurting their profit margin, technically, but the profit wouldn't even be there if got rid of microniche-type sites on adsense.
      Yep thats why they don't clear out thousands at a time frequently...oh wait... You are clearly delusional if you think the bulk of adwords money comes from micro niche sites. get up stretch and take a look around the world. Adwords profits come mostly from real companies not MFAs. you been reading too much WSOs



      All they are doing is shooting themselves in the foot, it won't increase their adwords revenue, it will decrease their overall profit, and they will lose a ton of money.

      Put plainly, its an ignorant claim.
      Put plainly . You have no clue, the fact that google routinely kicks out thousands of advertisers, drops kicks top ranking niche sites and has aimed MULTIPLE algo changes at "microniche-type sites on adsense" would be clue enough for a reasonable person to see that they are making no point.

      But hey you have demonstrated you can't comprehend the points so theres nothing more to add.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123871].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        [DELETED]
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123924].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author dennis09
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          I suppose I got a little carried away . Just tired of this forum mentality, but defiantly put me down for the trip, I need a vacation.
          How ironic, most of your posts in this thread have been the epitome of the "forum mentality". I understand he's your best friend in the whole wide world, but you shouldn't attack people that don't agree with him (that's forum mentality). That just makes you look immature and stupid. Unless there's something you'd like to add, please go sit down somewhere.
          Signature
          There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124061].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

            How ironic, most of your posts in this thread have been the epitome of the "forum mentality". I understand he's your best friend in the whole wide world, but you shouldn't attack people that don't agree with him (that's forum mentality). That just makes you look immature and stupid. Unless there's something you'd like to add, please go sit down somewhere.
            You are transparent Dennis. I've seen this kind of thing before. When people can't make their point stand they start attacking whoever else supports whatever point they can't take apart. People should grow and evolve. I used to sell backlink packages years ago when they worked and I thought they were good. The fact that I no longer do is hardly a point against me.

            Nest is a friend of mine on and off this board that quite separately from me came to some of the same conclusions. It might kill you to look at the OP and see the other people who thanked me to agree also. truth is I get ton loads of people who pm who thank me for posts like this. Thats why I don't get as frustrated at sniping. I know there are far more that agree that keep quiet because they can't be bothered......basically you can always tell whose foot you've stepped on by those who cried out the loudest.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124258].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author dennis09
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              You are transparent Dennis. I've seen this kind of thing before. When people can't make their point stand they start attacking whoever else supports whatever point they can't take apart. People should grow and evolve. I used to sell backlink packages years ago when they worked and I thought they were good. The fact that I no longer do is hardly a point against me.

              Nest is a friend of mine on and off this board that quite separately from me came to some of the same conclusions. It might kill you to look at the OP and see the other people who thanked me to agree also. truth is I get ton loads of people who pm who thank me for posts like this. Thats why I don't get as frustrated at sniping. I know there are far more that agree that keep quiet because they can't be bothered......basically you can always tell whose foot you've stepped on by those who cried out the loudest.
              I can understand you guys being friends and all, but that should be a reason for him to come on the forum and attack those that disagree with you. And just as there are people that agree with your OP, i'm sure there are also credible members here that disagree. Some of which have already spoken out, and others who'm im sure prefer not to get involved in such a heated debates because they tend to devolve to the type of nastiness shown in this thread when 2 people have differing and valid points.

              I must say that overall I do agree with what you're trying to do here, I just do not feel as though this was the best way to go about it. I'll agree to disagree and just leave it at that.
              Signature
              There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124488].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                I can understand you guys being friends and all, but that should be a reason for him to come on the forum and attack those that disagree with you. .
                Actually If you go look up Nest's most recent threads you will notice that he is not here backing me up. Most of the things he has been saying long before this post and we have never talked specifically about adsense. You are trying to reference his agreement with me as a matter of friendship which is false. We began talking because he expressed his present views long before this post and before I would have called him a friend and not just an online acquaintance.

                Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                Nest, that victim role will only get you so far. I'm not the only person here who has addressed you in this thread, you think people are doing that for no reason??? No reason at all huh? We just felt like picking on nest right?
                Like I said your motivation is crystal clear. No one who is holding an agreement with the OP is attacking Nest. If he did not support the premise of the OP you would not be attacking him and we both know thats the truth.
                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124575].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author nest28
                  [DELETED]
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124610].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    Anyway you slice it, I never came on here attacking anyone in the name of friendship, saw Mike being attack for asking people to think outside the box, sense I know how that feels, and sense he is a friend of mine, I defend him.

                    I never once called anyone names or put down anyone opinion. This whole thread is off topic, just like I said, this thread is becoming more about me and Mike's friendship than about IM.

                    It's becoming increasingly difficult to even have a real discussion here. I don't care about the person, just the topic, I see a thread title and I make a comment on the topic, for some reason other see the same title and make a comment about me.
                    For real son? You're still playing that victim role? You have no idea why people are calling you out? Ok, i'll bite:

                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    The Warrior Forum is not the place for this kind of talk, people here are to set in their ways, they rather follow someone who suggests making MFA authority sites, than someone telling them to focus on other avenues of business.

                    Adsense and Amazon are gods here, that will never change.
                    What are you talking about??? "People here" aren't arguing because we'd rather follow someone else's BS, we are arguing because we genuinly disagree with the OP and are voicing our own points of view.


                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    You have plenty of people here including myself who don't even know how to generate direct traffic, yet you call your selves marketers because you made a small niche site, oh wait I forgot, that business model is dying down, so now the new trend is to build bigger crappy MFA sites, and call them authority sites.
                    So you don't know what you're doing, you completely agree with the OP, and everyone else is wrong right? Sounds legit...

                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    Mike, take this discussion to a site you own, stop adding to the Warrior Forum's content, not to mention you will only get further insulted if you continue.

                    I believe this quote applies:

                    “The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”
                    Hmmm, but you're new to the IM world, blindly back the OP, and admittedly can't generate your own traffic. Sounds to me like that quote can be reversed.


                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    Again, Mike, leave this alone, it will get you nowhere here, I learned the hard way people only want to take shots at you, they don't want to actually discuss anything or else the OP would be the topic, not your service or what pics you have in your sig. Now I'm out, deuces.
                    Not really, nobodys taking shots at Mike, we're taking shots at his OP. There's a difference.

                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    This forum is for weak minded individuals, who have no creativity what soever, following the lead of others who have no idea what they were doing...

                    And after saying you were finally done with the thread, you come back and post some sh*t like this. I mean really? But you do know what you're doing though, right? Well you sure talk as if you do, almost had me fooled. :rolleyes:

                    edit: Yeah this forum is lame lol
                    Signature
                    There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124654].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author nest28
                      [DELETED]
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124671].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                        My man, why are you still talking about me?

                        Why are you still replying when you've "left" 3 times already? Don't get mad cause you got called out.
                        Signature
                        There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124735].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
    MA, you just not in favour of Adsense as a monetization technique.... and that's okay but people should test various monetization techniques on their sites and stick with what works best.

    I do however believe Adsense isn't something that will complement one's own products - this is probably the defining factor!

    Look at Amazon: visit a page where they are selling a Kindle and there aren't any "sponsored links" but all the other pages with 3rd party products have sponsored links on them!

    Added: the truth is if people were selling their own products and that was the core of their online business then Adsense will be the last thing on their minds! This is coming from someone who depends on Adsense and aff. comms.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123834].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

      MA, you just not in favour of Adsense as a monetization technique.... and that's okay but people should test various monetization techniques on their sites and stick with what works best.
      If you think about it how are you going to test anything without traffic? You are wrong though. I have nothing against sticking an adsense ad on a site as monetization. You are still missing my point. If You have traffic apart from getting it for your adsense site then I just said it may work for you and yes along with other things.

      is that the case with most Imers? No so they end up BUILDING the site for that not just testing it as one monetization technique. In essence what you just said is something that works only if you already have traffic and thats been one of the key points.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123941].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Fact is indeed that Google doesn't need MFA sites when all the traffic comes from Google itself.

        Damn people, how freaking hard is that to understand???

        Whether Google wins or loses on it I leave in the middle cause many clicks on MFA sites are generated cause the producers of these sites leave the visitor no choice to click anything else. (yeah sure the Back button is a choice but you know what I mean).

        Then why not ban disallow those accounts right away? Well Google has a system where you apply once with a site and then you can put the Adsense site on as many sites as you wish. If they have to review each single site then it will cost money to hire people for that. So add that up to the costs as well as the few people who better their life and start making sites that do offer value, well then it will most probably be a break-even situation.

        But hell, who needs break-even?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7123994].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        If you think about it how are you going to test anything without traffic? You are wrong though. I have nothing against sticking an adsense ad on a site as monetization. You are still missing my point. If You have traffic apart from getting it for your adsense site then I just said it may work for you and yes along with other things.

        is that the case with most Imers? No so they end up BUILDING the site for that not just testing it as one monetization technique. In essence what you just said is something that works only if you already have traffic and thats been one of the key points.
        Yeah, sure thing!

        Adsense is not the problem! It is how people are starting out that is the problem, so you are probably right about "95%" of marketers not having a real online asset.

        Basically people are learning to do things wrong from the outset. Find a CB/Amazon product or resolve to use Adsense from the beginning, find a bunch of targeted kws, purchase a domain, throw up some content and then drive traffic to that site via SEO or whatever other means.

        What is the problem with this?

        There isn't any real planning and market research going into the sites that people build. They do not know the preferences and needs of the end-user, hence, they cannot deliver and satisfy the end-user. Many do not know anything about the niche but because of high CPC and large aff. comms people are just jumping in and a number of gurus are to blame for spreading this mentality.

        I believe that when people first enter this market they need to determine firstly whether they posses the skills to be marketers and once they know they are suited to the industry they need to learn about business principles and all the functions of a business from operations to finance.

        So really, Adsense isn't the problem and focusing on Adsense as the problem in the OP does not tackle the root which is people's lack of online business acumen! You have some good points but I do not know how you singled out Adsense as an issue.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124077].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

          So really, Adsense isn't the problem and focusing on Adsense as the problem in the OP does not tackle the root which is people's lack of online business acumen! You have some good points but I do not know how you singled out Adsense as an issue.
          actually you just proved yourself that adsense is part of the problem. look at your simplistic statement of

          find a bunch of targeted kws, purchase a domain, throw up some content and then drive traffic to that site via SEO or whatever other means.
          "

          Big problem is it leaves out all the other things that should be going into building a real site. If people start out with the idea of just picking keywords and throwing up content most never recover. Thats pretty much the idea behind all MFAs and yes adsense encourage it because with adsense you never have to think abut what you are good at, what you know , what you can provide some value in. its just look up keywords throw up some content and try ad rank it.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124293].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author IM Ash
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Big problem is it leaves out all the other things that should be going into building a real site. If people start out with the idea of just picking keywords and throwing up content most never recover. Thats pretty much the idea behind all MFAs and yes adsense encourage it because with adsense you never have to think abut what you are good at, what you know , what you can provide some value in. its just look up keywords throw up some content and try ad rank it.
            If that is how you looking at it then CB, other affiliate programs and Amazon's asscoiate program are also the problems at hand, not just Adsense!

            The root of the problem is what is been taught to others which does not focus on building a business but rather on making a quick buck!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124319].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by IM Ash View Post

              If that is how you looking at it then CB, other affiliate programs and Amazon's asscoiate program are also the problems at hand, not just Adsense!

              The root of the problem is what is been taught to others which does not focus on building a business but rather on making a quick buck!
              Well sure you can be lazy with anything and people are . Like i have said if you have the mindset to build a site that gets lots of return traffic and attract other kinds of traffic and then you use adsense then fine but as business model its suckier than the rest in how it tends to dupe people into thinking just keywords and rankings. Plus I do think more people have tried to make it work and it still hasn't for most.

              A few people have taken issue with me not saying straight out MFAs but you know what I didn't want to and don't think thats accurate. adsense is still pushed as a good model for newbies if they don't build thin sites and I still think thats wrong (and so apparently does Google who has tanked sites with hundreds pages) . Its not just the standard idea of MFAs with their low quality and few pages. its the whole idea of a site that exists for adsense regardless of quality or size - an adsense site not just a site thats a real business that has some adsense ads. its just not a very good model regardless of size or quality especially with all the major updates that have taken place. Supplement I can see it main model -IT SUCKS.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124434].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Google doesn't like adsense sites. In fact they pretty much hate adsense sites, never wanted them and will tank them in a heart beat at the slightest excuse.

    Thats right I said it and it true.
    You just pulled this "fact" straight from the deepest pits of your @ss. Just because you said it doesn't make it true...not even close.

    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Its them giving you money for THEIR traffic and as such you cut into their bottom line. If the traffic was at a Google search engine to begin with what they want is for the searcher to click the adwords link right there and cut you out not go to your site and then come back to an adwords customer.

    You are a detriment even a leech to their bottom line plus you junk up their search results which embarasses them and potential causes them to lose market share. IF you have your own traffic then google can live with you and pay you but from their prospective not love you because they would prefer that all traffic started with them

    Sorry Mike, it isn't THEIR traffic by a long shot. Google basically acts as a doorway page. People only use it to get to their final destination. If it was wiped off the face of the earth people would still be using other search engines to find content. On the other hand if Wikipedia or Facebook got wiped out then you'd have people in fits of rage. In other words, Google in itself is NOTHING without the content created by other webmasters. I mean let's face it, outside of whoring out other peoples content for traffic and cash, what value do they have to offer? Google+???.

    2nd. If they really wanted to direct more traffic to paid results then surely they can do so without f*cking over every webmaster with an adsense account. How? Easy, change the paid ads background to make it blend more with the organic listings. Push the organic listings down a bit to make room for more paid results. But of course this won't happen, you know why? Because although the advertisers would be happy, their users would once again be OUTRAGED.


    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Second truth - Adsense as a business model has absolutely sucked for most people. Most of the success stories back up the first truth. they generally are not Adsense sites created with adsense in mind. They were successful in getting and keeping traffic. The webmaster decided to put a few adsense ads on after building it - not building it for adsense.

    Even then adsense pays pennies on the dollar its been bad for far more people on this forum than good but a few people claiming success have perpetuated the myth that its a good business model for people in general to go after. It IS NOT unless you already have a successful site online getting good traffic
    First, Adsense is not a "business model". It's a method of monetization and one of many as you have pointed out. The people that "fail" with it are likely the ones that see it as a "business model". You can't point at peoples failure with it as any kind of proof that it isn't viable. We can say the same thing about commission sales, PPC, CPA or just about any other monetization technique you can dream of. A large percentage of people WILL fail with it for whatever reason.

    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    So whats the alternative if you don't have your own products to sell? Why not turn to something that has proven to work for DECADES, With a proven business models that employs millions each day.

    Commission sales. We have seen people here do well with affiliate marketing.
    So what, we have seen people do well with every monetization method you can think of, including adsense.

    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    See the forums these last ten days? Ranking for keywords doesn't give you control of anything. As we have seen you can lose that any day. That does NOT mean Seo is not a viable advertising model but that people have used it entirely the wrong way.

    SEO is to advertise your business not to be your business.

    The real business is having a strong visitor base of return visitors and that can start with SEO. WF can sell anything it wants now because it has that traffic and if tomorrow it got deindexed it wouldn't matter.

    . Best of all when you start getting return visitors who didn't use Google to come back to you again -

    You won't have to cry how your whole business just went down because of a Google update.
    Wrong. Let's face it Mike, for a good majority of online businesses, especially bloggers, a nice sum of their traffic will come from the SERPS. Regardless of the number of direct repeat visitors getting knocked out of the rankings will have a HUGE impact on their visitors and bottom line. Period. This hold true for CNN, Wikipedia, About, Amazon, eBay and any of the other online giants as well. Being knocked out of the SERPS will likely become a disaster scenario just as it would for most of the SEO's here.

    ----------------------
    There's something strange about this post Mike. I generally agree with the threads you make but this one is well...lacking. Pretty much everything you stated here is just pure opinion and speculation, a lot of it with no basis in reality. I mean, it's a cool story and all but you shouldn't be surprised that people find it hard to argue against. There's nothing there except "I hate Adsense". No real data or anything else of use.

    And nest it's funny to see you d*ck riding this whole thread, Mr. "adsense longtail authority method". :rolleyes: He's basically saying you suck, and it appears you're quite good at it. (see what i did there) Hell i'm really starting to wonder if you're an alt of his...
    Signature
    There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124020].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

      You just pulled this "fact" straight from the deepest pits of your @ss
      I have no doubt that for most of what you write that is the ultimate source of your best material but we do not all have quite those great caverns full to draw from. Its a fact because it is a fact and because your defense otherwise fails miserable and anything even attempting to pretend to be logical falls down at the slightest glimpse of reality as now demonstrated

      Sorry Mike, it isn't THEIR traffic by a long shot. Google basically acts as a doorway page.
      So people visiting a site is not that sites traffic. What a perfectly silly irrational fantasy.

      People only use it to get to their final destination.
      So directories do not have traffic. Whenever anyone goes to your site to find a resource link to somewhere else that is not your traffic?


      If it was wiped off the face of the earth people would still be using other search engines to find content.
      so if other sites exist that could replace yours you therefore do not have any traffic. Now that is pulling things out of ones great rear assets.

      The people visit google get over your fantasy - Its their traffic. theycan and often do send trafic to their own properties as well . never heard of Youtube? blogger? sheesh really bad logic - awful

      First, Adsense is not a "business model". It's a method of monetization and one of many as you have pointed out. The people that "fail" with it are likely the ones that see it as a "business model".
      Duh thats the entire point. try reading the thread OP again and several other posts. I've said now like four times that if you have traffic its what the program was designed for and you can make it with adsense. However if you don't have traffic like most people starting out to get it for adsense is again for most people a total bust

      You can't point at peoples failure with it as any kind of proof that it isn't viable. We can say the same thing about commission sales, PPC, CPA or just about any other monetization technique you can dream of. A large percentage of people WILL fail with it for whatever reason.
      In what make believe world when something doesn't work for most people can you not say it doesn't work for most people? I was careful to point out in an earlier post that even among those who try and who work at their sites the failure rate is high. I have yet to say anywhere that it works for no one so you have no point, Facts are for people starting out in light of everything google is doing in penguin. panda and with emds adsense as a major means to start making money online is a downright INFERIOR way to go about establishing an online income. It SUCKS.


      [qu0te]
      So what, we have seen people do well with every monetization method you can think of, including adsense. [/quote]

      LOL. Where? do you live under a rock somewhere? How many people do you know making money with adsense? I can walk into any community and point to TENS OF THOUSANDS making money off commissions. Wake up and smell the real world - real estate agent, insurance agents, car salesmen, mortgage brokers, sales people working off of commission in just about every field . Millions of people. Now compare that to adsense again for me.


      Wrong. Let's face it Mike, for a good majority of online businesses, especially bloggers, a nice sum of their traffic will come from the SERPS. Regardless of the number of direct repeat visitors getting knocked out of the rankings will have a HUGE impact on an their visitors and bottom line. Period.
      total rubbish borne out of spending too much time regurgitating WSO thinking. if you even think past your nose you would remove the ridiculous period lol to back up your air as well. Embarassingly you are presently on such a site that if tomorrow it were deindexed by Google would continue to have almost ALL the regular visitors that it presently has and makes a living off of. No one will deny that occasional advertising will bring in new customers but to dispute that sites with significant regular reoccuring traffic do not lose their entire business when they are not in a position to advertise is assinine.

      here is NO BUSINESS on the planet outside of adsense webmasters where the LIONS SHARE of money is not made on existing customers. this shows you are TOTALLY and absolutely Naive when it comes to business.

      Being knocked out of the SERPS will likely become a disaster scenario just as it would for most of the SEO's here.
      this is like twilight zone. CNN with it worldwide media coverage would be in a disaster if it did not rank on Google? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You must be in your early teens. CNN was a viable business long before google was around. it makes most of its money off of television advertising not serp results.

      this is the thing with you guys. You get so sucked up into your IM world you don't have a clue whats going on in the real one.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124214].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dennis09
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Its a fact because it is a fact and because your defense otherwise fails miserable and anything even attempting to pretend to be logical falls down at the slightest glimpse of reality as now demonstrated
        No Mike, it is not a fact. The bulk of your original post is your OPINION. Just because you say it is so does not make it a fact. And THAT...is a fact.


        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        So people visiting a site is not that sites traffic. What a perfectly silly irrational fantasy.



        So directories do not have traffic. Whenever anyone goes to your site to find a resource link to somewhere else that is not your traffic?
        Get real Mike, unless you own a major information hub then this type of business model is one built on sand. You have nothing to offer anyone besides other peoples property. Since you're so intent on talking about "real" businesses, then let's go there. Come to my business to buy a house and I will then take you to another business so that they can show you were to buy a house. No matter what cute and fancy term you dress it up in, you are nothing more than a middleman.


        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        The people visit google get over your fantasy - Its their traffic. theycan and often do send trafic to their own properties as well . never heard of Youtube? blogger? sheesh really bad logic - awful
        No no Mike, your logic is leading you to distort the context of this conversation. Youtube and Blogger can, and do, stand on their own. Google, as in the search engine property we are referring to, is nothing more than a gateway to other peoples stuff. "Their" traffic comes to them with the sole intent of going somewhere else. Nobody goes to Google just to look at it.


        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Duh thats the entire point. try reading the thread OP again and several other posts. I've said now like four times that if you have traffic its what the program was designed for and you can make it with adsense. However if you don't have traffic like most people starting out to get it for adsense is again for most people a total bust
        Then why not change the entire Adsense program? Only accept people with sites or businesses that only get viable traffic? Noone knows the site owners orignal intent with a site other than of course the owners themselves.

        Whether they choose Adsense upfront or later on down the road is a moot point.



        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        In what make believe world when something doesn't work for most people can you not say it doesn't work for most people?

        I was careful to point out in an earlier post that even among those who try and who work at their sites the failure rate is high. I have yet to say anywhere that it works for no one so you have no point, Facts are for people starting out in light of everything google is doing in penguin. panda and with emds adsense as a major means to start making money online is a downright INFERIOR way to go about establishing an online income. It SUCKS.
        And when did I say that it wasn't ok to say that??? I agree with you though, the micro Adsense sites, in my opinion are not the way to go in light of the recent updates. But then again, who's to say that there isn't a way to adapt a strategy to get around that? There ARE a lot of thin 1-5 page Adsense sites that are still ranking. I DO think that it will be harder to do for the masses though.


        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        LOL. Where? do you live under a rock somewhere? How many people do you know making money with adsense? I can walk into any community and point to TENS OF THOUSANDS making money off commissions. Wake up and smell the real world - real estate agent, insurance agents, car salesmen, mortgage brokers, sales people working off of commission in just about every field . Millions of people. Now compare that to adsense again for me.
        How many people do I know PERSONALLY is irrelevant because frankly I don't know sh*t about any of you besides that crap you post online. And yeah, I do smell the real world and in that world, just as it is online, many of them aren't doing so well. As a matter of fact, many of the people HERE ON THIS FORUM come from those backgrounds. So obviously something isn't working there either. Hell one of my neighbors used to own the second largest construction company in all of California. Little to say he is now more interested in how I make money online than anything else. Wake up and smell the real world.



        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        total rubbish borne out of spending too much time regurgitating WSO thinking. if you even think past your nose you would remove the ridiculous period lol to back up your air as well. Embarassingly you are presently on such a site that if tomorrow it were deindexed by Google would continue to have almost ALL the regular visitors that it presently has and makes a living off of. No one will deny that occasional advertising will bring in new customers but to dispute that sites with significant regular reoccuring traffic do not lose their entire business when they are not in a position to advertise is assinine.

        here is NO BUSINESS on the planet outside of adsense webmasters where the LIONS SHARE of money is not made on existing customers. this shows you are TOTALLY and absolutely Naive when it comes to business.
        WSO's? The only WSO's i've ever bought have been software programs. And you singling out the WF DOES NOT invalidate my point...at all. You'll notice I said A GOOD MAJORITY, which includes a lot of the major players I listed above. WF just so happens to fall into the crack of sites that will still do quite well. And while those other major sites may not go bankrupt and shut down shop, their businesses would be SIGNIFICANTLY affected by not showing up in the SERPS. We're not just talking about "occasional advertising" here. Disagreeing with this just goes to show how absolutely NAIVE you are when it comes to business.

        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        this is like twilight zone. CNN with it worldwide media coverage would be in a disaster if it did not rank on Google? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You must be in your early teens. CNN was a viable business long before google was around. it makes most of its money off of television advertising not serp results.

        this is the thing with you guys. You get so sucked up into your IM world you don't have a clue whats going on in the real one.
        I understand you're trying to maintain your credibility and make yourself look smart, but I once again, I said the vast majority of sites would be significantly affected by losing all search traffic. Of course someone like CNN would survive, but how big of an impact do you think that would have on someone like Wikipedia? You're so sucked up into your little "know it all/authority" space that you're completely missing my points.
        Signature
        There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124391].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

          . "Their" traffic comes to them with the sole intent of going somewhere else. Nobody goes to Google just to look at it.
          I've blown up that argument and no one is buying that Google does not have real traffic but you. The fact that they can send the traffic to whoever they want indicates its very miuch theirs. Its a silly silly point that has no merit so I need not address it again. I can't run down every crazy point. I have some sunday work to do athough I usually take off the weekends

          Hell one of my neighbors used to own the second largest construction company in all of California. Little to say he is now more interested in how I make money online than any thing else. Wake up and smell the real world.
          ad yet even in a bad economy far more people are still paying their mortgage feeding their kids and paying their bills on commission than the few people making money on adsense. What dos that tell Ya? That commission in business has a far and away more solid history than getting paid pennies per click. Your aside proves my point even more

          . WF just so happens to fall into the crack of sites that will still do quite well. And while those other major sites may not go bankrupt and shut down shop, their businesses would be SIGNIFICANTLY affected by not showing up in the SERPS. We're not just talking about "occasional advertising" here. Disagreeing with this just goes to show how absolutely NAIVE you are when it comes to business.
          yes yes of course CNN would be devastated to the point of disaster if they did not rank on google. Same tired irrational point. Sorry I do business with real businesses and they are paying to get ranked in Google for the very first time with cash they generated WITHOUT being ranked. They want to expand and grow their business but back to the point you objected to irrationally to begin with - Their business will NOT go down like adsense dependent webmasters because of a ranking change. They are not in a "small crack".They represent the real world outside of Imers. That continues to be your fantasy. Even on the online world the customers that they have won will keep coming back to them in a healthy enough percentage than will ever go looking up that site that gave them nothing to buy besides an adsenseclick. Real business acquires real customers for you with a proven record of being willing to open their purse and buy from you. you don't have that with clickers.


          I understand you're trying to maintain your credibility and make yourself look smart, but I once again, .
          I don't need to do that. You did a fine job of doing that that for me especially picking CNN among that group. you chose it not me. Dont cry because I pointed it out
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124523].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author dennis09
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            I've blown up that argument and no one is buying that Google does not have real traffic but you. The fact that they can send the traffic to whoever they want indicates its very miuch theirs. Its a silly silly point that has no merit so I need not address it again. I can't run down every crazy point. I have some sunday work to do athough I usually take off the weekends
            It seems as though you still missed my point. My original argument is that Google, as a search engine, makes it's money from OTHER PEOPLE content. Without that, they have nothing in terms of their search engine. This actually brings to mind one of my favorite quotes: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".

            While "technically", yes, it is Google's traffic as people navigate directly to it. But they only do so to find other people's stuff. Once again, noone goes to Google just to look at blank pages and ads. Outside of organazing other peoples stuff, they offer little value. But luckily they are d*m good at that or otherwise we'd all be using Bing. (or Yahoo)

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            ad yet even in a bad economy far more people are still paying their mortgage feeding their kids and paying their bills on commission than the few people making money on adsense. What dos that tell Ya? That commission in business has a far and away more solid history than getting paid pennies per click. Your aside proves my point even more
            Sorry to bust your bubble again, but not really. People paying their bills and feeding their kids has nothing to do with Adsense. And of course brick and mortar businesses have a more solid history...duh. I don't think the Greeks or our founding fathers knew how to do SEO back then. :rolleyes:


            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            yes yes of course CNN would be devastated to the point of disaster if they did not rank on google. Same tired irrational point. Sorry I do business with real businesses and they are paying to get ranked in Google for the very first time with cash they generated WITHOUT being ranked. They want to expand and grow their business but back to the point you objected to irrationally to begin with - Their business will NOT go down like adsense dependent webmasters because of a ranking change. Tey are not in a small crack they represent the real world outside of Imers. That continues to be your fantasy
            All i'm going to do here is repost my original response:

            "Of course someone like CNN would survive, but how big of an impact do you think that would have on someone like Wikipedia? You're so sucked up into your little "know it all/authority" space that you're completely missing my points."

            Don't worry though, i'll just keep crying. :rolleyes:
            Signature
            There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124582].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

              It seems as though you still missed my point. My original argument is that Google, as a search engine, makes it's money from OTHER PEOPLE content. Without that, they have nothing in terms of their search engine. This actually brings to mind one of my favorite quotes: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you".

              While "technically", yes, it is Google's traffic as people navigate directly to it.
              Finally the light bulb is fluttering on . At least we are past the ridiculous notion that Google's traffic is not theirs so as you can see I didn't miss your point it just wasn't a solid one.

              But they only do so to find other people's stuff. Once again, noone goes to Google just to look at blank pages and ads. Outside of organazing other peoples stuff, they offer little value. But luckily
              all of which is totally irrelevant because my point only resides on the fact that it is their traffic not where they end up pointing it. So you still ARE making money off THEIR traffic

              Sorry to bust your bubble again, but not really. People paying their bills and feeding their kids has nothing to do with Adsense. And of course brick and mortar businesses have a more solid history...duh.
              You have argued yourself into a such a knot you don't even remember how we got to this point. You arguing that adsense was as proven as commission based income and objecting to me pointing out the Modern history of commissions is g far more solid than being paid per click. I dont' need to go back to founding fathers. THIS YEAR Commission based income blew the socks off any history of the last year in bringing in real income to people both offline AND ONLINE compared to people making money with adsense.

              Its good to see you have withdrawn your CNN nonsense as well from consideration. Wikipedia would indeed feel it in terms of traffic because they are ranked for many terms across the widest spectrum of search results but you forgot to calculate that WIkipedia isn't a business supported by a customer business model. Since very few people donate to wikipedia I really don't know its a given that the people who use it and love it enough to have given in the past would stop doing so because they no longer ranked.

              So even in this your objections to me saying that a web property with repeat traffic would not suffer devastation of their business by not ranking fails to raise a good point.

              In the end ANY business even wikipedia will be insulated by repeat customers and will ALWAYS be far better than people depending month in and month out on each moths search volume. Thats a fact. You can call it an opinion all you want but its just common sense business 101. Businesses with a customer base of proven purchasers or wikipedia's case cash supporters will ALWAYS be insulated compared to people without that return customer base. Argue with logic all you want.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124647].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Finally the light bulb is fluttering on . At least we are past the ridiculous notion that Google's traffic is not theirs so as you can see I didn't miss your point it just wasn't a solid one.



                all of which is totally irrelevant because my point only resides on the fact that it is their traffic not where they end up pointing it. So you still ARE making money off THEIR traffic
                lol oh now that was just wrong. Once again you cut off my whole argument and left that one little sentence hanging. Allow me to repost:

                "While "technically", yes, it is Google's traffic as people navigate directly to it. But they only do so to find other people's stuff. Once again, noone goes to Google just to look at blank pages and ads. Outside of organazing other peoples stuff, they offer little value. But luckily they are d*m good at that or otherwise we'd all be using Bing. (or Yahoo) "



                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                You have argued yourself into a such a knot you don't even remember how we got to this point. You arguing that adsense was as proven as commission based income and objecting to me pointing out the Modern history of commissions is g far more solid than being paid per click. I dont' need to go back to founding fathers. THIS YEAR Commission based income blew the socks off any history of the last year in bringing in real income to people both offline AND ONLINE compared to people making money with adsense.
                No not really, but I do feel as though we're on a never ending ferris wheel. My original point was that many people fail with the commission model just as they do with Adsense. For the beginner, it is actually easier to "succeed", or at least get your foot in the door with Adsense than it is with commission based products. Most newbs don't understand how to properly analyze their visitors to pick the best product, build sales funnels, optimize landing pages, write effective pre-sell content, setup OTO's/Upsells and everything else that comes along with it. For BEGINNERS, programs like Adsense is the preferred way to "get in the game" and start making some money. Which is partly why so many people get so caught up in it and never make the transition.

                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Its good to see you have withdrawn your CNN nonsense as well from consideration. Wikipedia would indeed feel it in terms of traffic because they are ranked for many terms across the widest spectrum of search results but you forgot to calculate that WIkipedia isn't a business supported by a customer business model. Since very few people donate to wikipedia I really don't know its a given that the people who use it and love it enough to have given in the past would stop doing so because they no longer ranked.

                So even in this your objections to me saying that a web property with repeat traffic would not suffer devastation of their business by not ranking fails to raise a good point.

                In the end ANY business even wikipedia will be insulated by repeat customers and will ALWAYS be far better than people depending month in and month out on each moths search volume. Thats a fact. You can call it an opinion all you want but its just common sense business 101. Businesses with a customer base of proven purchasers or wikipedia's case cash supporters will ALWAYS be insulated compared to people without that return customer base. Argue with logic all you want.
                Here's the thing Mike, how many newbs around here have solid businesses with tons of repeat customers? It doesn't matter how you frame your argument, my point still stands. Any web property receiving a substantial percentage of visitors from the search engines will see a drastic drop in both traffic and income if it took a hit in the SERPS. You can point out counter examples all day until the cows come home, but for the MAJORITY of these types of businesses, this will always be the case. PERIOD.
                Signature
                There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124727].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                  this will always be the case. PERIOD.
                  The only thing I need add to is that I like your tendency to say babbling nonsense and think that stating period at the end makes it coherent sense. I wasn't trying to cut your quote off I was trying to give you credit for saying it was their traffic but if you insist I'll take back the credit since you seem to be making the same silly claim again. Anyway -

                  Its Google's traffic since they direct it where they wish.

                  Say it over and over a few times and you might come off that bad logic trip you are on

                  Here's the thing Mike, how many newbs around here have solid businesses with tons of repeat customers?
                  its amazing that you reference that and yet still can't get how that is exactly the point and what needs to be changed.
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124789].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    The only thing I need add to is that I like your tendency to say babbling nonsense and think that stating period at the end makes it coherent sense. I wasn't trying to cut your quote off I was trying to give you credit for saying it was their traffic but if you insist I'll take back the credit since you seem to be making the same silly claim again.
                    Nice try, but you weren't trying to give me credit. You cut off my argument which took that one sentence completely out of its context. That's not how a debate works. My points are valid and I could care less about your snide remarks. We can simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.
                    Signature
                    There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125020].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by bsbear View Post

                      Lol - This was Mike and his buddy's terrible attempt at seeming knowledgeable when it comes to Google and SEO.

                      Boy, that backfired a lot.
                      Yeah three or four adsense guys unable to make any logical point against whats actually in the op came in sniping like I said they would making me a prophet and meanwhile twice the number of people thanked the post. ROFL. two to one ratio in favor and thats their idea of failure. no wonder so many people struggle with Adsense. the proponents for it it don't even do maths well.

                      Hmmm.......... maybe that affects their claims of profit as well. the plot thickens.

                      Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                      Nice try, but you weren't trying to give me credit.
                      Actually I was. You saying technically still means its their traffic. So I thought you were taking a step back from that silliness. But since you don't understand that then I am quite fine removing credit for you coming to your senses. The idea that Google has no traffic because they refer other sites as a business model is still hopeless as a viable argument..
                      Signature

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125090].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Yeah three or four adsense guys unable to make any logical point against whats actually in the op came in sniping like I said they would making me a prophet and meanwhile twice the number of people thanked the post. ROFL. two to one ratio in favor and thats their idea of failure. no wonder so many people struggle with Adsense. the proponents for it it don't even do maths well.

                        Hmmm.......... maybe that affects their claims of profit as well. the plot thickens.
                        Really Mike? Don't even do "maths" well? This thread has received over 819 views since you posted it and so far only 8 people gave it a thanks. That means they either didn't agree or really didn't care about what you had to say. ROFL.

                        And the points I made were very logical. Same with a lot of the other comments here, but of course I don't expect you to agree with that. It seems like at this point your'e more invested in protecting your ego. And I don't think the insults or snide remarks are helping your case or your credibility. It's actually pretty childish. :rolleyes:

                        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                        Actually I was. You saying technically still means its their traffic. So I thought you were taking a step back from that silliness. But since you don't understand that then I am quite fine removing credit for you coming to your senses. The idea that Google has no traffic because they refer other sites as a business model is still hopeless as a viable argument..
                        I'm done with this Mike, it's getting a bit redundant. I've made a host of very logical arguments but you seem hell bent on attacking that one, and you are completely doing so outside of its original context. You're right about one things though, I am coming to my senses. I should've taken a play from Yukons book on page 1 and hit the log off button. Arguing with you is a fools task.
                        Signature
                        There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125316].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                          Really Mike? Don't even do "maths" well? This thread has received over 819 views since you posted it and so far only 8 people gave it a thanks. That means they either didn't agree or really didn't care about what you had to say. ROFL.
                          don't be silly You can no more claim that people are against it that have not commented than I can say they agree.The only known is who has weighed in. and so the now nine still trump your band of adsense snipers. As Paul Myers reminded me recently Over 80% of the people reading never comment or make any note of having read. So the invisible make no point. Plus I take no great notice of popularity. I take far more satisfaction that for the last 3 pages the only one that has even attempted to put up anything coherent in rebuttal in the form of real debate has been Troy (fraggler) and that we have you on the opponents side claiming that it is WRONG to say that Googles traffic is actually their traffic. LOL its till funny even writing it back for the fifth time.

                          And I don't think the insults or snide remarks are helping your case or your credibility. It's actually pretty childish.......Arguing with you is a fools task.
                          and yet here you are doing just that . so what should we conclude?
                          Signature

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125381].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    I brought in $625,000 on Adsense from 2004-2010 doing pretty much all Black Hat SEO. Since then I've moved on to greener pastures. In the end I never treated it as a business model or thought it was a sustainable one. Treat Google like the piece of dirt it really is and you'll do fine. Build a monument to their imaginary 'quality standards' and you'll be let down every time.
    Signature
    Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124103].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      I brought in $625,000 on Adsense from 2004-2010 doing pretty much all Black Hat SEO. Since then I've moved on to greener pastures. In the end I never treated it as a business model or thought it was a sustainable one. Treat Google like the piece of dirt it really is and you'll do fine. Build a monument to their imaginary 'quality standards' and you'll be let down every time.
      Yeah right, you made $625,000 and you post on forums, uhuuu

      :p
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124113].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Yeah right, you made $625,000 and you post on forums, uhuuu

        :p
        In six years dude. Unless you're from Thailand that's a working wage.

        I had to pay taxes on it, etc and I had expenses. Not exactly wealth, unless YOU'RE REALLY POOR.
        Signature
        Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124126].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          In six years dude. Unless you're from Thailand that's a working wage.
          Oh yeah? Dare to say that again in 3-4 weeks!!!

          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          I had to pay taxes on it, etc and I had expenses. Not exactly wealth, unless YOU'RE REALLY POOR.
          100k/yr is still not really a working wage for most, average income in my country is 1500 euro/month after taxes so without that comes down to 2100 euro * 13 months = 27.000 euro or $35.000,- I guess, so not anything close to working wage right.

          Anyway, was j/k about it obvious but saying working wage while it's actually 3* working wage is not really nice for 80% of the people that make average or less Heck there are people here in Holland that have to live from 10k euro/year
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124149].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Oh yeah? Dare to say that again in 3-4 weeks!!!



            100k/yr is still not really a working wage for most, average income in my country is 1500 euro/month after taxes so without that comes down to 2100 euro * 13 months = 27.000 euro or $35.000,- I guess, so not anything close to working wage right.

            Anyway, was j/k about it obvious but saying working wage while it's actually 3* working wage is not really nice for 80% of the people that make average or less
            I grossed it and not netted it. Where I live the median income is $49,200 for a family of 4. My take from the Adsense was around $50K+. If it wasn't for all the links I sold too I would have been scraping a long like everyone else
            Signature
            Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124162].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author dennis09
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Yeah right, you made $625,000 and you post on forums, uhuuu

        :p
        Like there aren't any others here KILLING IT online and still hanging out in the forums. You ever think that just maybe he enjoys all the f*ckery that goes on around here? I mean it really is entertaining. A lovely way to spend a nice Sunday afternoon at the beach.
        Signature
        There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124131].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

          Like there aren't any others here KILLING IT online and still hanging out in the forums. You ever think that just maybe he enjoys all the f*ckery that goes on around here? I mean it really is entertaining. A lovely way to spend a nice Sunday afternoon at the beach.
          Like I tried explaining to my little developing world friend there, it was around around $100,000 a year for six years. The money was paid to an S Corp and I took a salary. Plus there were expense for 'content creation,' 'spam,' 'thowaway domains' etc. When all was said and done it contributed about $50,000 a year to my well being.

          Not exactly the ROCKSTAR money many IMs brag about But definitely a decent pay rate for the Midwest of the USA and for the actual work done.

          That whole thing started crashing for me when Google introduced PERSONALIZATION. It's gotten harder and harder and harder since then and Adsense has went way downhill. Personalization, Adblockers, and their war on spam all took a toll.
          Signature
          Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124157].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

          Like there aren't any others here KILLING IT online and still hanging out in the forums. You ever think that just maybe he enjoys all the f*ckery that goes on around here? I mean it really is entertaining. A lovely way to spend a nice Sunday afternoon at the beach.
          OMG how many wink / tong out smiley's does someone have to post before it's recognized as a joke. No wonder 90%+ of IM'ers fail.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124165].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            OMG how many wink / tong out smiley's does someone have to post before it's recognized as a joke. No wonder 90%+ of IM'ers fail.
            90% of all IMers fail because of one thing only: they lack a nutsack made out of titanium!
            Signature
            Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124169].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author dennis09
            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            OMG how many wink / tong out smiley's does someone have to post before it's recognized as a joke. No wonder 90%+ of IM'ers fail.
            Signature
            There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124184].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

              lol typical way out when people get confronted with their stupidity
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124192].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author nest28
            [DELETED]
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124225].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author dennis09
              Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

              YOUR NOT EVEN WORTH A RESPONSE.


              I have nothing to lie about, first of all I'm 5 "10" 205lbs, I am a ex-police officer so I know about dealing with so called tough guys, I've had bullets hit the ground 2 feet in front of me, and this was before I ever join law enforcement, and on top of that it happen quit a few times.

              I have no problem dealing with anyone that has a problem with me face to face,, there are about 30 marketers who are my friend on FB, that know wha

              People are way to comfortable doing it, like this fool Dennis, dude don't even know me, he more worried about me than the OP.
              Maybe if you weren't here nit picking at everyone with a different opinion to the OP then you wouldn't get called out. I know you might feel like a victim right now, but people don't just single you out for no reason.
              Signature
              There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124409].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author nest28
                [DELETED]
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124455].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author dennis09
                  Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                  What the hell are you talking about, I don't know you, you don't know me, I never once addressed you in any kind of way so why are you even talking to me dude.


                  I'm here to talk about IM, what are you here for. You spend all your time talking about what I do. I don't mind getting in a heated discussion about IM, I take it personal when people focus there attention on me. So what if I took up for a friend of mine, that's what I'm suppose to do, keyword "defend", not attack.

                  Everyone is free to have there own opinion, I simply asked to be talked with respect, because that is how I will talk to you. This place is so used to being NASTY, people don't even realized they insult people and use sarcastic remarks more than they leave comments based on the topic.


                  Do you have any thought on the OP, that don't include poking holes in Mike's theory, can you offer any good advice on how to approach companies and get them to pay you for leads.

                  Can you tell me how to generate direct traffic, cuz right now you aint talking about sh*t related to IM.
                  Nest, that victim role will only get you so far. I'm not the only person here who has addressed you in this thread, you think people are doing that for no reason??? No reason at all huh? We just felt like picking on nest right?

                  As for my thought's on the OP, they are posted above if you care to read them. Just as you yourself stated, it is a "theory", but he has stated it as fact. And as anyone who'd been around for a while knows, things in IM aren't always exactly one sided. There are contradictions just about everywhere you look.

                  If you have any questions about me or my business model then i'd be happy to answer them through a PM. As for your question about offline lead generation i'm sure there are others around a lot more qualified than myself to answer them. As I stated before we have an entire subforum dedicated to just that among other strategies.
                  Signature
                  There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124525].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    This thread just went all Gangsta!
    Signature
    Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124111].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      This thread just went all Gangsta!
      NO WAY near gangsta -__-.
      Signature

      RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124492].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    When I finally make $1 million a year I'm gonna hang out on forums just to rub it in! I can't be alone on this one can I?
    Signature
    Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124196].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      When I finally make $1 million a year I'm gonna hang out on forums just to rub it in! I can't be alone on this one can I?
      I will help you, I think we would make a great team
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124254].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        I will help you, I think we would make a great team
        Think of how fun it would be to sit up in the Heavens of IM Riches looking down at all the little people. And laughing at them

        P.S. I'm afraid shots may be fired soon in this thread!
        Signature
        Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124268].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          Think of how fun it would be to sit up in the Heavens of IM Riches looking down at all the little people. And laughing at them

          P.S. I'm afraid shots may be fired soon in this thread!
          Oh sooo mean

          I would love to laugh at all those crappy back link sellers though, you know the old stuff: wiki's/article spam/bookmarks/profile links/web2.0's, actually all that is supported by the same tools. Simple cause they truly have the right to be laughed at. I mean do those people seriously never learn it? Then they come to me like: "Hey are you also selling so terrible lately?". Uhhh no... lol.

          Now I have to admit that I also started to attract less new clients, but in return you get clients that know what they need, larger affiliate guys, local seo companies who don't have or care about their own networks etc etc.

          Bit off topic but well.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124323].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bsbear
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          Think of how fun it would be to sit up in the Heavens of IM Riches looking down at all the little people. And laughing at them

          P.S. I'm afraid shots may be fired soon in this thread!
          I'm getting in on this group too.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124330].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    People who make an argument from the standpoint of googles revenue

    a) think they understand googles plans
    b) thinks the only way google earns higher revenue is by more publishers
    C) you missed the point

    Google doesn't want or need you.. Anymore.

    Lets promote real business ideas then and only then should we discuss Adsense as a complimentary strategy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124350].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dennis09
      Originally Posted by boxoun View Post

      People who make an argument from the standpoint of googles revenue

      a) think they understand googles plans
      This. Noone but Google understand anything about what they "meant" or "intend" to do. If their business plans aren't explicitly stated, then any mention of them is just OPINION. NOT FACTS
      Signature
      There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124417].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    Here's what's funny. Experienced marketers are arguing amongst themselves and newbs will continue to fall for the guru trickery. The courses I'm involved in are no longer making money from the example site but there are still people following the model. How ignorant is that? That's every single course not just one. Think about that for a second. That's why I support the majority of ops thread.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124431].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JoshuaG
    OP and anyone agreeing with him have overlooked a very simple fact.

    Google loses potential revenue when someone doesn't click an Adwords ad on search and then visits a retail site in the SERPS directly.

    Adsense for content gives Google a 2nd chance to profit from their platform by displaying another round of ads to users.

    EDIT: Though I will agree that making decent money through micro niche sites with adsense and SEO traffic has been getting harder. I wouldn't recommend it.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124489].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JoshuaG View Post

      OP and anyone agreeing with him have overlooked a very simple fact.

      Google loses potential revenue when someone doesn't click an Adwords ad on search and then visits a retail site in the SERPS directly.

      Adsense for content gives Google a 2nd chance to profit from their platform by displaying another round of ads to users.
      That's what I mean, and that's what makes the whole thing more likely break-even for Google then really making money off it. Break-even cause of the 60% loss plus the fact that Adwords advertisers pay more when people click on their ad at the Google search engine page it self.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124519].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author 9ball
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Adsense was designed to get traffic from webmasters sites that had their own traffic NOT Google search engine traffic. Doing SEO for Adsenses sites already puts you in conflict with adsense goals as far as Google is concerned. google never ever wanted sites that didn't already have their own success at gaining traffic. It being an open system is what led to that.
    I think the bold statement is not make sense. Why google hate High Quality sites with search engine traffic??

    Let's suppose all the sites that are on page 1 for all possible keywords are quality sites that provide the most relevant information to users (in other words : google happy with organic search in that case). Google will lose the opportunity to reap a great deal of the profits if they all do not put adsense on their site. I think google will try every angle to make profit from their search engine, thats mean they will exploit every single space include organic search.

    Maybe you need to change your opinion to be Adsense was designed to get traffic from high quality super relevant webmasters sites that had their own traffic OR Google search engine traffic. NOT for junk MFA sites :p

    sorry about my english,google translate mode
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124595].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sakana
    Adsense = Webmaster Welfare

    /Thread
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124596].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    Adsense was designed to get traffic from webmasters sites that had their own traffic NOT Google search engine traffic. Doing SEO for Adsenses sites already puts you in conflict with adsense goals as far as Google is concerned. google never ever wanted sites that didn't already have their own success at gaining traffic. It being an open system is what led to that.
    No, Adsense was designed to give advertisers the best opportunity to get their products and services in front of their ideal demographic.

    Google only wants people with genuine interest in the ad clicking them; they don't want peopled funneled through the ads through mis-direction or as an escape path. Google wants their advertisers to make money off their ads so they keep buying more and more.

    The type of site doesn't matter if this valued is maintained.

    The problem with a lot of MFA sites is that they are built poorly and don't prepare the customer as they should when they click an ad. The SEO is often poor so they get knocked down during updates but I strongly doubt having Adsense on them is the problem. Sites drop just as fast if they are advertising Amazon products, clickbank books, or even offline services; simply because the sites are built and promoted poorly.

    I think you'll find that a large portion of newbies choose Adsense as their monetisation method but just because these sites fail doesn't mean that Adsense is to blame.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124607].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author 9ball
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      No, Adsense was designed to give advertisers the best opportunity to get their products and services in front of their ideal demographic.

      Google only wants people with genuine interest in the ad clicking them; they don't want peopled funneled through the ads through mis-direction or as an escape path. Google wants their advertisers to make money off their ads so they keep buying more and more.

      The type of site doesn't matter if this valued is maintained.

      The problem with a lot of MFA sites is that they are built poorly and don't prepare the customer as they should when they click an ad. The SEO is often poor so they get knocked down during updates but I strongly doubt having Adsense on them is the problem. Sites drop just as fast if they are advertising Amazon products, clickbank books, or even offline services; simply because the sites are built and promoted poorly.

      I think you'll find that a large portion of newbies choose Adsense as their monetisation method but just because these sites fail doesn't mean that Adsense is to blame.
      agree with you
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124631].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

      No, Adsense was designed to give advertisers the best opportunity to get their products and services in front of their ideal demographic.
      Hi Troy,

      Even if we follow that rationale down the road a bit it leads to the same spot. If the best demographics are not represented when the keywords are put in and the search result is shown then what could be a better representation of the demographic? Only one thing - a place where the demographic is already served. Thats an existing site where the demographic already visits! and therefore a site with existing traffic in the niche outside of just trying to capture a searcher for that term

      where would google prefer to have ads about photoshop for maximum reach beyond what the keywords would supply on the results page and with a higher conversion rate. On a site that even with great content was just designed for photoshop searchers? or the NAPP site (national association for photoshop users)? What would have the higher click through rate a site designed to get searcher for seo or SEo moz's site? Clearly the SEo moz site has exactly the kind of reach that meets the demographic better because its already filled with people and content that serves that demographic.

      The whole point of extending beyond the walls of google's search results is to have sites that more accurately already reach the core demographic not just sites made to get search traffic. SO it still ends up targeting sites that have traffic that represents the demographic that google doesn't have.

      theres no other point to adsense from google's stand point but extendig reach to better traffic and click through demographics. they might as well just enhance the adwords on the search result page because the demogprahic is hit or miss to be better at the adsense site. from a business perspective adsense was created to extend google's reach for its advertisers making them more money

      Its not either or what I said or you said- its both.

      Saying its not about the kind of site is not accurate though. IF a site isn't going to be the type that could or has developed its own even repeat traffic then its not going to do any better at reaching the demographic over the search result page where Google gets a crack at them without having to pay adsense webmasters a dime.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124726].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        If the best demographics are not represented when the keywords are put in and the search result is shown then what could be a better representation of the demographic? Only one thing - a place where the demographic is already served. Thats an existing site where the demographic already visits! and therefore a site with existing traffic in the niche outside of just trying to capture a searcher for that term.
        Mike, there is no definite answer to that as it all depends on the particular niche and the journey of the visitor. You're talking about which ads are the most profitable now and it isn't always the Search Network.

        It's a valid and profitable strategy to target visitors who are searching by placing your ads on the Content Network on websites that are getting that organic traffic. It allows you to get exposure to the market for a much more affordable rate using different advertising strategies.

        A large percentage of searchers go to an organic result rather than a paid result. These customers can still be influenced with the right ad that the Search Network advertisers aren't providing.

        Through my Adwords experience I've found that established communities respond differently and click ads less than pages attracting organic traffic - and this isn't limited to Adwords either but specific media buys as well. A reader who is used to the design of a site and familiar with the ads on the site tends to ignore them. Once they've seen and dismissed my ad then my ROI is lowered. Organic traffic provides fresh eyes on my ads.

        I agree that users building low quality sites suffer but they'll suffer regardless of using Adsense, Amazon, Clickbank, CPA, etc. I totally disagree with you saying that Google doesn't like Adsense on sites that only get organic traffic.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125154].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Fraggler View Post

          Mike, there is no definite answer to that as it all depends on the particular niche and the journey of the visitor. You're talking about which ads are the most profitable now and it isn't always the Search Network.
          No I was following your logic of increase click through rates thats all.

          It's a valid and profitable strategy to target visitors who are searching by placing your ads on the Content Network on websites that are getting that organic traffic.
          Never said it wasn't but thats has nothing to do with my point. What makes sense for you as the adword client doesn't mean anything as to why Google wouldn't want to extend its exposure beyond search traffic. P.S. Not sure what you are trying to say with organic traffic. Organic does not have to be search traffic

          A large percentage of searchers go to an organic result rather than a paid result. These customers can still be influenced with the right ad that the Search Network advertisers aren't providing.
          Yes that point has been raised before but I've answered it already. I've said now four times that if a site has what it takes to create return traffic then adsense can work fine for it. I can say it a fifth time if people want. Its going to have to go way beyond being an adsense site and if so then (if you dont get how I am defining that then you have not read the thread) It DOES or will have have traffic that extends beyond what the search traffic for the keywords are that month. However if it isn't doing that then its likelihood of creating a better fit in which click rates increase is unlikely.

          Through my Adwords experience I've found that established communities respond differently and click ads less than pages attracting organic traffic - and this isn't limited to Adwords either but specific media buys as well. A reader who is used to the design of a site and familiar with the ads on the site tends to ignore them. Once they've seen and dismissed my ad then my ROI is lowered. Organic traffic provides fresh eyes on my ads.
          Well I am not going to argue with your experience and you may have a point with percentage rates regarding click throughs to views - and as I hope you know i have enormous respect for you despite our disagreeing here - but you are ignoring that fresh eyes are on communities as well since they attract new users every day. I'd have to see actual data on that . everyones anecdotal experience can be different. plus without seeing the sites you advertise on its hard for me to tell if a common phenomenon exists which often exists in the serps. That is that Google often does a pretty good job at ranking the very site s that are also getting their own traffic because of quality. In that case your point would make no point against my claims.

          I agree that users building low quality sites suffer but they'll suffer regardless of using Adsense, Amazon, Clickbank, CPA, etc. I totally disagree with you saying that Google doesn't like Adsense on sites that only get organic traffic.
          You are free to but to me your constant bouncing back between what you like as an adword advertiser and what Google wants is not coherent with a business model. My point is pretty clear from a business perspective - the bottom line is better for Google when you click on their ads on the search result page. if they had their choice then thats where the most money would be made for them. They have multiple shots on this since people don;t find the sites they want the first time and end up coming back to the serp. I disagree with your assertion that adsense was not created to extend Google's reach. it seems pretty obvious to me as thats exactly what any such affiliate like relationship is always designed to do. Frankly your arguing against it isn't common sense (no disrespect meant I just find it so).

          I get what you are saying about MFAs and low quality sites and newbs but to me we are past all of that. Those kinds of objections have no useful function in directing newbies because it still leaves them still thinking that search engine traffic as a total business model rather than an advertising model is correct and that kind of thinking is deeply flawed at its core. THe only way adsense makes any sense is as some have suggested one income stream to a website that is in itself a real business not its central or only business model and especially not for newbs starting out

          The fact that you can mess up Affiliate marketing means little to me. I tried in the the Op to lay out a perspective of people looking at what They like, what they are good at and looking outside the box to creating a real viable business based on being able to offer something real.

          Adsense as a business model for newbs stinks to high heaven because it has everyone trying to do paint by number businessesn (keywords, search count, throw up wordpress, throwup content rinse repeat) and its causing people all over to abandon SEO and make crappy arguments that SEo is dead

          Until people stop talking about it just has to be quality and address the deeper roots of adsense and SEO traffic not being a total business model newbs will continue down the same path if for no other reason that everyone convinces themselves their quality content should be Google's and we can all see over the last few months that that leads nowhere in helping people.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125333].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author dennis09
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            You are free to but to me your constant bouncing back between what you like as an adword advertiser and what Google wants is not coherent with a business model. My point is pretty clear from a business perspective - the bottom line is better for Google when you click on their ads on the search result page. if they had their choice then thats where the most money would be made for them. They have multiple shots on this since people don;t fidn he sites they want the first time and end up coming back to the serp.
            That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Google doesn't have a "choice" as to where the traffic goes. It's a search engine. The only value they offer is places for their traffic to LEAVE. Compare that to the WF where we sit around having conversations like this all day lol.


            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Adsense as a business model for newbs stinks to high heaven because it has everyone trying to do paint by number businessesn (keywords, search count, throw up wordpress, throwup content rinse repeat) and its causing people all over to abandon SEO and make crappy arguments that SEo is dead

            Until people stop talking about it just has to be quality and address the deeper roots of adsense and SEO traffic not being a total business model newbs will continue down the same path if for no other reason that everyone convinces themselves their quality content should be Google's and we can all see over the last few months that that leads nowhere in helping people.
            But see that's the thing, it's not the "Adsense business model" that's making people abandon SEO. It's the micro niche site model that's causing people to get slapped and abandon SEO. Just becauseso many people fail with the MNS approach doesn't mean that Adsense sucks. People do the same thing with mini amazon sites, clickbank sites, hell you name it. But I have to say that I do agree with the overall intent and message of your post, i just feel as though you went about it the wrong way by diverging from your core message and attacking Adsense.

            Either way, i'm not sure if you've responded to my last comment but i'm done with this thread so you don't have to worry about me replying to it. Good night, and no hard feelings toward either you or your butt buddy nest lol
            Signature
            There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125435].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

              That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Google doesn't have a "choice" as to where the traffic goes. It's a search engine. The only value they offer is places for their traffic to LEAVE. Compare that to the WF where we sit around having conversations like this all day lol.
              Hold up didn't you say only a fool would take on the task of continuing to argue. I've rebutted this in the past. it is getting redundant. Further you are in a dream world if you think Google doesn't manipulate people where to go. DO you know how many non techies actually click the top links not realizing they are ads? On some monitors that color difference barely shows.
              go ahead and tell me that this page doesn''t lead people to the sites google wants people to go to and think as a non techie not a marketer

              Google

              IF I was looking to buy an Ipod I know where I would be tempted to click

              Your argument that Google doesn't have traffic or doesn't influence where it wants to go is false on even that level.


              But see that's the thing, it's not the "Adsense business model" that's making people abandon SEO. It's the micro niche site model that's causing people to get slapped and abandon SEO
              No it isn't because as people gleefully pointed out with penguin good sites got hit as well. Until people stop thinking of SEO as a total business model and rather look at it as an advertising model that should go along with a real business model they will never get that they can not rank and yet still continue to make money. The adsense model used on this board tells people get keywords in weak niches even if they care nothing for them, build site and rank and get SEO traffic (the other step took a serious bite in the dust because that was to buy an EMD).

              If you build a business around acquiring customers not just search clicks then you can survive changes and ups and downs. The adsense model leaves you with squat if search engine traffic goes. No buyers list no marketing data nothing to make any money. I didn't attack adsense to attack adsense, I seriously think thats a HUGE flaw in the adsense business model that DIRECTLY affects IMers whose one consistent claim over the last few months was that you can't build a business on SEO. YOu CAN if you use SEO to acquire real customers. Even if they develop nothing but buyers trust then they have no hesitance buying from your site again or recommending others to do so. You could change your supplier and they will still buy from your site. Adsense kicks you to the curb you gat nada/zip nothing.

              Bt the way thanks I found this comment far more reasonable even without reading what you were saying afterwards . It beats the tar out of coming in swinging claiming I pulled things out of my ass because you didn't agree. It might go for ordinary talk with teenagers on the corner of a street but in a business discussion its crass and offensive using that kind of language and we both know it s meant to be insulting so don't complain if you get back snide remarks after coming in like that..

              and no hard feelings toward either you or your butt buddy nest lol
              yeah definitely either 14 or 15. Can't keep it in for long. :rolleyes:
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125526].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

    Why are you still replying when you've "left" 3 times already? Don't get mad cause you got called out.
    I don't think theres anything more sad than someone who thinks they have done an effective call out by posting on a forum ...oh wait I was wrong ...come to think of it...there is one things that beats it

    doing it with a short green fuzzy monster as your avatar.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124810].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author dennis09
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      I don't think theres anything more sad than someone who thinks they have done an effective call out by posting on a forum ...oh wait I was wrong ...come to think of it...there is one things that beats it

      doing it with a short green fuzzy monster as your avatar.
      Opinions are like @ssholes...

      Besides, i'd take a little green monster over a test tube baby any day.

      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      He'll never get it, I had it and lost it myself, I don't even remember what the what topic of this thread is about anymore.
      You're right, I don't get it. Out of all the participants in this thread you don't seem to realize why people are taking shots at you. You were just randomly selected. Yeah, right. Here let me help you:

      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      I never came on here attacking anyone in the name of friendship, saw Mike being attack for asking people to think outside the box, sense I know how that feels, and sense he is a friend of mine, I defend him.
      Exactly my point. You simply jumped in and started throwing shots at people because he is your friend and and you'd do anything to "defend" him. Basically you're contradicting yourself. You indeed started attacking people in the name of friendship!!! Hint: Noones "attacking" Mike, where simply throwing out objections to his OP. No need for you to come here and get all high and mighty.

      p.s. I don't even know why you're responding to me. I'm obviously one of those weak minded non creative individuals you were referring to for "attacking" the OP. :rolleyes:
      Signature
      There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124969].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

        Opinions are like @ssholes...
        are you like twelve years old? Every other analogy of yours refers to potty time. Grown up board at least try to raise the vocab.

        Hint: Noones "attacking" Mike, where simply throwing out objections to his OP. No need for you to come here and get all high and mighty.
        Mike has got plenty of attacks from all of you come back to reality

        I don't even know why you're responding to me.
        Well let me tell you its like a bad car wreck. You just can't help from slowing down and gawking at the sheer tragedy of it all. I mean when someone argues that Google that is one of thetop three in traffic month in and month doesn't have any of their own traffic it makes the mouth drop open and forces the fingers to type. Perhaps Nest is just mesmerized by the novelty of the moment.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125121].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author radivoj
    Google hate and penalizing AdSense site, but not all check this out...

    this site is ranked #1 on Google for research keyword "how to get rid of stretch marks naturally"



    site is build-ed and ranked for only AdSense purpose and I know this site is still ranked #1 after all these algorithm changes it has Not drop the ranking plus EMD as well..

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124860].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
      That is ONE s*@#%y looking site. Generates an ok amount though.
      Originally Posted by radivoj View Post

      Google hate and penalizing AdSense site, but not all check this out...

      this site is ranked #1 on Google for research keyword "how to get rid of stretch marks naturally"



      site is build-ed and ranked for only AdSense purpose and I know this site is still ranked #1 after all these algorithm changes it has Not drop the ranking plus EMD as well..

      Signature

      RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125103].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

        That is ONE s*@#%y looking site. Generates an ok amount though.
        Yeah its testimony to good keyword research but not much else. Thats a weak old serp. Weak weak links from competitors on the first page. Whenever you see PR N/As on the first page its a dead giveaway
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125156].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bsbear
    Lol - This was Mike and his buddy's terrible attempt at seeming knowledgeable when it comes to Google and SEO.

    Boy, that backfired a lot.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7124972].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      [DELETED]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125230].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Brendan Mace
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        some how this thread is known as Mike and friend attempt at putting down adsense.
        Title of thread = Blah blah blah - Adsense You Suck!

        I really don't know how people came to that conclusion :rolleyes:
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125314].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Brendan Mace View Post

          Title of thread = Blah blah blah - Adsense You Suck!

          I really don't know how people came to that conclusion :rolleyes:
          People who come in objecting now (or any time past page one) to this thread and read the Op even with the added note as to what was meant by adsense sites are just are being ridiculous or are hurt to the core that their great hope of lazy riches might be in jeopardy. (stand by for $10,000 a month with niche sites income claims)
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125406].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Brendan Mace
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            People who come in now (or any time past page one) to this thread and read the Op even with the added note as to what was meant by adsense sites are just are being ridiculous or are hurt to the core that their great hope of lazy riches might be in jeopardy. (stand by for income claims)
            huh? Are you actually suggesting that "anyone" that posts now is just being ridiculous?

            First of all, my comment wasn't about whether Adsense is a viable monetization strategy. I was only addressing the hypocrisy of Nest's "you guys are all just attacking us for no reason" comments.

            I don't disagree with a lot of what has been said. I HATE adsense as well. But why make an attack against adsense, and then pretend that you are not criticizing anyone or anything. Of course you are!!! It's Mike Anthony and Nest for goodness sakes. I would not expect anything less. Playing the "victim card" is weak minded. Not people that state their opinions on the forum. I'm not scared of you Nest. I'm perfectly comfortable with stating my opinions, as are you guys.

            Anyways, just want to end by saying that I have a lot respect for you Mr. Anthony. You've created a lot valuable posts over the years, and I am genunely going to miss your knack for destroying peeps in arguments. I don't necessarily always agree with your points, but I sure as heck am impressed with your rhetoric.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125458].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Brendan Mace View Post

              huh? Are you actually suggesting that "anyone" that posts now is just being ridiculous?
              Nope not suggesting directly stating that anyone that objects to the Op at this point is being ridiculous. A note was put after the first page that explains exactly what I meant by adsense sites which makes it so close to the common objection against MFAs that they thought I should use the term MFA (I disagree ).

              But why make an attack against adsense, and then pretend that you are not criticizing anyone or anything.
              See ridiculous. I never claimed anywhere that I was not attacking anything. I made it abundantly clear I was attacking adsense as a business model repeatedly. Why would I pretend I am not. Is adsense a person?

              By the way even some people who disagree with me on adsense agree that micro niche sites now suck so you will have plenty people to disagree with whether I am here or not and you are going to have a much harder time with your product or services. I may stick around. I am that way the more people voice they want me to go and they will miss me sarcastically. the more they assure my continued company.
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125564].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        If anyone paid attention you would have noticed that I myself warned Mike not to continue with this thread, I already knew what would happen if he did, the result is 3 pages of bullsh*t.

        The first page was full of jokes, and all of my comments were directed at Mike and no one else, than Dennis started saying I attacked people, after looking through the entire thread there is not one post were I insulted someone.
        Actualy he did point out a lot of insulting remrks you made. They werent directed at anybody in particular, but you made them about the posters here and the forum in general. Open season.

        Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

        The thing I noticed about this place is people see what they want, Mike attempted to have a debate with people who are more interested starting beef, now some how this thread is known as Mike and friend attempt at putting down adsense.


        All the man said was give other revenue streams a try. Really didn't take a genius to see how this thread would turn out, like I said, Adsens is GOD here.
        Looked like a debate to me. And 'give other revenue streams a try' was not all he said. It was a bit more detailed than that and it started out with " Adsense You Suck". Shall I remind you that this is the Adsense/SEO forum and that's how many of the people here make their money. I honestly don't really see why you're surprised at the backlash. Thats like my going into a lions pit and saying lions suck and then looking all confused when they turn around and gang up on me.
        Signature
        Something stinks...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125353].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nest28
          [DELETED]
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125393].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
            Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

            The WF and I just don't mix, everyone here wants to stick with Adsense and that's it, no one wants to make there own products/service, be a leader in there niche. They would rather play it safe, throw content up and wait for clicks, and hey that's fine.

            To each his own, I'm done trying. This time next year people will still be here talking about backlinks, and ranking sites, instead of focusing on getting direct traffic, and branding yourself.
            Believe me I understand your frustration. The thing is, this is the ADSENSE section of the forum. The people here are going to primarily be interested in that method of monetization. On top of that, the WF in general tends to be a place where a lot of newbies come to for information. That's why you constantly see the EXACT same threads/questions over and over year after year. Hanging around here past your newb stage will turn you into an arrogant @sswhole faster than anything else. Why do you think the senior members are always so bitchy lol
            Signature
            Something stinks...
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125515].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author nest28
              [DELETED]
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125539].message }}
              • Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                Your absolutely right, there is no reason to stay here past the newbie stage, it's like you'll hit a glass ceiling. The learning stops, and you just start wondering why people are stuck on the same song EMD,backlinks,rankings,ctr themes, none of that is even real marketing.

                The topics here are entry level at best, real marketers would point and laugh, I was honest about my success and failures, all that did was have people use it against me.

                Nice talking to you man, I contacted the mods this account should be deleted when they get the message, been here far to long.
                Why have you account deleted? Just take a break man. Give it a week or two then come back and re-educate some newbies.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125572].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author nest28
                  [DELETED]
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125595].message }}
                  • Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    Thanx for the advice but as you can see, every thread I post in some how becomes about me, not to mention I haven't learned anything new here in months.

                    I been researching like crazy lately and found out that most marketers are just like me, there just not here. Newbies shouldn't even be here, all they learn is how to make adsense based sites, use Magic submitter and pollute the net with spun content.
                    Yeah i understand. I actually don't learn anything from this subforum. Never have. Everything i learn is done with testing and coaching from a really good mentor. Honestly the only reason im posting at all is to promote my backlink service. I just deal with the noob threads. Sometimes when a thread is so ridiculous like

                    "When will my site hit page one"? kind of threads. I usually reply with something smart ass like. "Exactly 14 days 10 hours and 5 minutes." lol

                    But aslong as i can promote my service everyday. Its worth it in the long run. Even if i only get 1 client a month from doing this. Its better then nothing and its free. Just takes a lot of time out my day.

                    Anyways hopefully you may change your mind and stay here. These newbies needs guys like us to lead them in the right path. Although im sure most don't even take the advice given to them. A few will, and they will go on to do some great things.

                    This maybe the longest post i have ever made, and thats sad lol

                    Peace
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125615].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
                      Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                      These newbies needs guys like us to lead them in the right path. Although im sure most don't even take the advice given to them.

                      Peace
                      And herein lies the problem with the WF. How are you going to lead newbies when you're a newb yourself? Classic case of the blind leading the blind and lord knows we don't need any more of that around these parts.
                      Signature
                      Something stinks...
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125657].message }}
                      • Originally Posted by IMdeaming View Post

                        And herein lies the problem with the WF. How are you going to lead newbies when you're a newb yourself? Classic case of the blind leading the blind and lord knows we don't need any more of that around these parts.
                        Says the kid with a WHOOPING 33 posts. What have you contributed besides insults?
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125744].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                          Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                          Says the kid with a WHOOPING 33 posts. What have you contributed besides insults?
                          and only four thanks for any contributions he has made. It always amazes me that newbs come on and start spouting off about a forum they have put almost nothing into like their newbie status gives them part mods privileges.
                          Signature

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125781].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
                            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                            and only four thanks for any contributions he has made. It always amazes me that newbs come on and start spouting off about a forum they have put almost nothing into like their newbie status gives them part mods privileges.
                            On top of being "clicky", this right here is why I don't even bother with WF. There was absolutely no reason for your comment as I never addressed you. I've been reading your posts around here for years and you always take that same condescending tone towards people. And you act all surprised when your thread turns into a pissing contest. Go figure.

                            And nest you shouldn't let other people get you down. It's just a forum. I promise you it's not the end of the world. I have to say that you can do way better than this place though. Maybe a private forum would be better for you.
                            Signature
                            Something stinks...
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125863].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
                          Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                          Says the kid with a WHOOPING 33 posts. What have you contributed besides insults?
                          Thanks for pointing out my post count as if that actually indicated anything. :rolleyes: Just sit back and watch, most people here don't really have a clue what their talking about, and that includes a lot of the members here with high post counts as well.
                          Signature
                          Something stinks...
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125836].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author nik0
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                          Says the kid with a WHOOPING 33 posts. What have you contributed besides insults?
                          Says the kid selling seo services, what have you contributed besides tanking sites?

                          LOOOOOOL
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7126790].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
                            Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                            Says the kid selling seo services, what have you contributed besides tanking sites?

                            LOOOOOOL
                            Woop woop!

                            Nice rant thread, Mike. Read through most of it, have nothing good to add... HOLLA!
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127065].message }}
                          • Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                            Says the kid selling seo services, what have you contributed besides tanking sites?

                            LOOOOOOL
                            Look its nik0 the hypocrite. Bashes link builders for building social bookmarking but he offers them on his website. Lol
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127636].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author nik0
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                              Look its nik0 the hypocrite. Bashes link builders for building social bookmarking but he offers them on his website. Lol
                              1st my website is outdated
                              2nd I only do bookmarks at the top 10 sites

                              That's a little different then 1000 bookmarks in one package
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127932].message }}
                              • Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                1st my website is outdated
                                2nd I only do bookmarks at the top 10 sites

                                That's a little different then 1000 bookmarks in one package
                                Right.... your offering 2000 social bookmarks. That's more then 1000 pal
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127956].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author nik0
                                  Banned
                                  Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                                  Right.... your offering 2000 social bookmarks. That's more then 1000 pal
                                  :confused: where do I offer 2000 bookmarks??
                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127966].message }}
                                  • Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                    :confused: where do I offer 2000 bookmarks??
                                    Services « Seo service group

                                    Package 6

                                    5 Relevant guestposts
                                    1 Pressrelease at SBwire
                                    20 Local listings
                                    15 Links at Social Aged accounts
                                    25 Video submissions
                                    25 Doc sharing submissions
                                    100 Customized web2.0′s
                                    100 Authority links
                                    25 Retweets / Likes / +1′s
                                    25 Digg / SU Votes
                                    30 Dofollow high PR comments
                                    300 Pinterest Repins
                                    2000 Social Bookmarks <------ right here buddy
                                    Backlink Booster (Tier3)
                                    Price: $299,-
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127970].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author nik0
                                      Banned
                                      Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

                                      Services « Seo service group

                                      Package 6

                                      5 Relevant guestposts
                                      1 Pressrelease at SBwire
                                      20 Local listings
                                      15 Links at Social Aged accounts
                                      25 Video submissions
                                      25 Doc sharing submissions
                                      100 Customized web2.0′s
                                      100 Authority links
                                      25 Retweets / Likes / +1′s
                                      25 Digg / SU Votes
                                      30 Dofollow high PR comments
                                      300 Pinterest Repins
                                      2000 Social Bookmarks <------ right here buddy
                                      Backlink Booster (Tier3)
                                      Price: $299,-
                                      Wow that's an old package, I don't do that anymore, besides those 2000 bookmarks are tier 2 and you edited that out. Oooooh what are you terrible LOL.

                                      Btw, did you see there are no buy now buttons on that page?

                                      But good that you remember me that I still have that site, it's kind of my spam test site when I just started. Will remove those packages now, makes people confused.
                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128034].message }}
                                      • Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                                        Wow that's an old package, I don't do that anymore, besides those 2000 bookmarks are tier 2 and you edited that out. Oooooh what are you terrible LOL.

                                        Btw, did you see there are no buy now buttons on that page?

                                        But good that you remember me that I still have that site, it's kind of my spam test site when I just started. Will remove those packages now, makes people confused.
                                        LOL i'm a bad man
                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128092].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
                      Mike, can't say we disagree in the overall picture.

                      Look at what I've been saying:

                      If your site exists only to put adsense ads on it, then
                      there is no need for it to be online, and you deserve
                      every bit of google's wrath.

                      Adsense is still a pretty good game for those of use
                      who built sites based on our knowledge, experience,
                      authority, etc., not based some on some pie-in-the-
                      sky keyword "research."

                      If you built a site for adsense because google "told"
                      you there are 50,000 unique searches for it and the
                      ads pay $100 a click, then you're lame. Period.
                      Toss in an EMD, WP, and you get double-lame-o.

                      We don't need any more sites on XYZ just to put
                      ads of XYZ on it.

                      So, if your argument is against MFA sites, and a MFA
                      is not just one page crap but like I described above,
                      then I'm all in.

                      If it's a rant against adsense, no problem. To each his
                      own. I'll stick with adsense. But because I take my
                      own advice, I make more selling ads on my site. I chose
                      to plant, water, and nurture my sites into truly great sites.

                      Wish people would do the same and stop the insanity.

                      Paul
                      Signature

                      If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128040].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
                        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

                        If your site exists only to put adsense ads on it, then
                        there is no need for it to be online, and you deserve
                        every bit of google's wrath.

                        Adsense is still a pretty good game for those of use
                        who built sites based on our knowledge, experience,
                        authority, etc., not based some on some pie-in-the-
                        sky keyword "research."

                        If you built a site for adsense because google "told"
                        you there are 50,000 unique searches for it and the
                        ads pay $100 a click, then you're lame. Period.
                        Toss in an EMD, WP, and you get double-lame-o.
                        Spoken like a shadow of a man who never even made it to full time status in IM. What possible difference does it make "why your website exists?" If it's useful, it's useful. Google is not a religion. They're a made for profit company. And make profit they do. Get off your high horse you part time wannabe.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128059].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

                        Mike, can't say we disagree in the overall picture.

                        Look at what I've been saying:

                        If your site exists only to put adsense ads on it, then
                        there is no need for it to be online, and you deserve
                        every bit of google's wrath.

                        Adsense is still a pretty good game for those of use
                        who built sites based on our knowledge, experience,
                        authority, etc., not based some on some pie-in-the-
                        sky keyword "research."l
                        We disagree on Microsoft but on this Paul we totally agree. From what I know of your sites they sound to me like exactly the exception I stated in the OP. Your sites would get return Traffic. To be honest so would Yukons if he is to believed (which I am not obligated to) but he just gets upset whenever anyone says Adsense sucks so I anticipated that.

                        If your site is a real business offering value that gets return traffic of its own besides people having to type into Google and you make money putting adsense on there then more power to you and you are aligned with what Google wants as I said in the Op.

                        For newbs starting out however that have neither a business model or existing traffic of their own its a lousy business model. in fact any business that goes to zero traffic because they were ranking for months ( and should have acquired a real following) and then no longer ranks is a bad business model.

                        That you have people arguing against that just ells you how many people in here have no business sense. You do which is why I anticipated your kind of response.
                        Signature

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128178].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author paulgl
                          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                          For newbs starting out however that have neither a business model or existing traffic of their own its a lousy business model. in fact any business that goes to zero traffic because they were ranking for months ( and should have acquired a real following) and then no longer ranks is a bad business model.
                          Off topic warning ahead, not a hijack...

                          What I see from that, and again we are not exactly on the same page, but
                          same book, is that people are unwilling to think real-world logic:

                          Don't expect to make a full time income.
                          Don't quit your day job.
                          Have a Plan B.

                          People think it strange that I still have an offline job. So does my
                          wife. Thing is, I pay every bill I have using income generated online.
                          Every bill. But I want savings. I want a nest egg. I want freedom.
                          I want peace of mind. Google does not run my life.

                          Granted, there are people here who earn money online, don't work
                          offline, and probably never need to worry.

                          If you lost all your online income today, and forever, could you
                          survive? I could. And quite nicely.

                          If you choose to run an online business on the whim of google,
                          shame on you. And that includes adsense.

                          But when I talk about treating your online business like a REAL
                          business, like advertising, networking, word of mouth, etc., I
                          get called out. No worries. I would never expect to open a
                          clothing store and expect google to send me all the customers
                          I needed.

                          No worries, mosthost. I take a lot of shots and I give em.
                          I never take stuff personal here.

                          Paul
                          Signature

                          If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128932].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    Thanx for the advice but as you can see, every thread I post in some how becomes about me, not to mention I haven't learned anything new here in months.

                    I been researching like crazy lately and found out that most marketers are just like me, there just not here. Newbies shouldn't even be here, all they learn is how to make adsense based sites, use Magic submitter and pollute the net with spun content.
                    Oh come on dont attack spun content.. Brendans latest post is reviewing the best spinner vs article factory. Let the man make a few bucks off these newbs stop hating nest. Geez.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125684].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    Thanx for the advice but as you can see, every thread I post in some how becomes about me, not to mention I haven't learned anything new here in months.
                    .
                    to be honest I haven't even followed that back and forth but I think you take it a bit personally. Sorry to hear you requested that . I wouldn't let anyone get me to that point. Give them too much power. You got stuff to do so take a break for awhile not tank your whole WF presence. I don't believe the penguin update that everyone was afraid of has even happened yet. If you think no one is open to seeing the flaws of the present business models then just wait till that hits. WSos on how to escape adsense business models will be ten pages long
                    Signature

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125715].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Ben Acharyaa
                Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                Nice talking to you man, I contacted the mods this account should be deleted when they get the message, been here far to long.
                Oh come on Nest!! Take a break for a while and then come back dude. there's no need to delete the account. i dont know whats goin on with you and mike!! what are you guys planning? lol first mike says he'll leave WF now you're leaving. i thought the trip to hawaii was a year later, are you starting to pack your bags already? :p
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125623].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author nest28
                  [DELETED]
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125663].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post


                    Mike's leaving for his own reasons.
                    Mike aint going nowhere for now unless a Mod deems it so. Too many adsense model people want me to go . I can't go out making them happy. Every time somebody groans at a thread I comment on (or start) I'll point back to these guys and say it was all their fault. LOL

                    shucks one of them just demanded I leave just to make me stay.
                    Signature

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125762].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
                    Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

                    I wasn't planning on leaving until this thread happened, really wasn't planning on staying either. I'm putting a lot into my own site, there wont be anytime to spend here even if I wanted to.

                    Mike's leaving for his own reasons.
                    You've mentioned leaving in multiple threads.

                    If you're not happy here, then GTFO. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

                    Either that, or make a positive contribution for once where you don't complain about what other people are doing.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127289].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Crap. I must be in the wrong section then. Where is the Amazon section? .
    Signature

    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125530].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Mace
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    I may stick around. I am that way the more people voice they want me to go and they will miss me sarcastically. the more they assure my continued company.
    This is hard to respond to because I do hope you stay. So perhaps it would be better for me to pretend that I want you to go.

    Ok here goes.... Get the heck out of this forum Mike Anthony! Nobody wants you here.

    I don't know whether you're a dude that doesn't take well to compliments. But I seriously do admire your ability to argue. If I didn't know any better, I would've guessed that you'd be an attorney of some sort for sure.

    You are creating a little bit of a straw man argument against me though. Because I NEVER claimed anything good or bad about MFA sites in this thread. My comment was directed towards Nest's statement that this thread "isn't about adsense." That's a very hard argument to support when "Adsense Sucks" is in the title of the thread. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with criticizing Adsense as a business model. I'm only saying it's wrong to argue that this thread isn't an attack. It is. And that's something I don't have a problem with.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125620].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author prashant85
    Banned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125900].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author IMdeaming
      Originally Posted by prashant85 View Post

      thanks for sharing for your idea...
      See what I mean? Nest you can do better than this lol
      Signature
      Something stinks...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7125916].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tamtu
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    I know the adsense guys won't like this thread and will try and snipe it

    but its time to lay the cards on the table and give people a business model that works post Penguin, Panda, EMD and the rest of the furry animal updates thats surely still to come. first off lets get the truth out there that at first glance will have the adsense guys laughing

    Google doesn't like adsense sites. In fact they pretty much hate adsense sites, never wanted them and will tank them in a heart beat at the slightest excuse.

    Thats right I said it and it true. People confuse themselves and feel hurt and offended when google tanks their adsense sites because they thought they were in partnership with Google. Google NEVER saw it that way and frankly its very likely that Google is motivated FINANCIALLY to aim their algo updates at tanking strictly adsense sites.

    Adsense was designed to get traffic from webmasters sites that had their own traffic NOT Google search engine traffic. Doing SEO for Adsenses sites already puts you in conflict with adsense goals as far as Google is concerned. google never ever wanted sites that didn't already have their own success at gaining traffic. It being an open system is what led to that.

    NOTE: for clarification a site that is already successful and has its own traffic and business model but that happens to place an adsense ad here and there is not an adsense site as herein defined. Its an otherwise successful site with a business model that allows it to do mutliple advertising or monetization - however that is NOT what 95% of people on this board have and especially not newbies have.

    Its them giving you money for THEIR traffic and as such you cut into their bottom line. If the traffic was at a Google search engine to begin with what they want is for the searcher to click the adwords link right there and cut you out not go to your site and then come back to an adwords customer.

    You are a detriment even a leech to their bottom line plus you junk up their search results which embarasses them and potential causes them to lose market share. IF you have your own traffic then google can live with you and pay you but from their prospective not love you because they would prefer that all traffic started with them

    Second truth - Adsense as a business model has absolutely sucked for most people. Most of the success stories back up the first truth. they generally are not Adsense sites created with adsense in mind. They were successful in getting and keeping traffic. The webmaster decided to put a few adsense ads on after building it - not building it for adsense.

    Even then adsense pays pennies on the dollar its been bad for far more people on this forum than good but a few people claiming success have perpetuated the myth that its a good business model for people in general to go after. It IS NOT unless you already have a successful site online getting good traffic

    So whats the alternative if you don't have your own products to sell? Why not turn to something that has proven to work for DECADES, With a proven business models that employs millions each day.

    Commission sales. We have seen people here do well with affiliate marketing. JV's are another form of this but it also extends far further than the traditional IM kind of affiliate /commission programs. Practically every industry in the world has companies willing to pay out for customers and many pay far more than pennies on the dollar. You can search on the internet and find ton loads of companies willing to pay you for leads, sales, customers with almost no end in site in almost every niche imaginable and you can do this on a passive simple level or even carry it to a professional level by getting certified in an area ( such as insurance as I once did). Your choice. depending on the product or service you can get checks for hundreds of dollars per customer referred. Some niches require nothing more than one sale a week and you make thousands per month.

    Whats more instead of being hooked into one company your checks can come from multiple companies. Instead of venturing into niches that you know nothing about (because of keywords), don't like and will never build authority sites on you can start with YOUR interests, YOUR specialties and what YOU love even pick up new loves and start sites on those as well.

    See the forums these last ten days? Ranking for keywords doesn't give you control of anything. As we have seen you can lose that any day. That does NOT mean Seo is not a viable advertising model but that people have used it entirely the wrong way.

    SEO is to advertise your business not to be your business.

    The real business is having a strong visitor base of return visitors and that can start with SEO. WF can sell anything it wants now because it has that traffic and if tomorrow it got deindexed it wouldn't matter. With billions of people connected you can make money by selling products and services YOU like from multiple companies, get return customers from the hundreds of thousands of people who like what you like (or learn to like) and be the one selling advertising slots to people. Almost no company will turn you down for a commission if you give them a bulk of sales (I have even approached some product sellers who have no commission program at all and they will make one for you if it means multiple sales).

    . Best of all when you start getting return visitors who didn't use Google to come back to you again -

    You won't have to cry how your whole business just went down because of a Google update.

    Short version? - Theres no long term business in owning websites unless you are selling a product or service for yourself or for someone else. to 90% and more of you adsense will continue to suck as it has sucked for years. Don't make any adsense guru tell you otherwise. You are connected to the single greatest search tool ever created to find literally thousands of companies willing to pay you good money for a single customers. If you doubt this then look to adwords itself - How many companies do you see there paying $3-$20 for just a click through and multiply that by a very optimistic 10% conversion to customer rate.

    takes some independent research but if you do it then you are on your way to a real business online
    If Google feels adsense did not live up to the purpose it was designed for why don't they just take it off why should they cajole and entice us into it and then pull the rug from under us. Here it would not only be the MFA sites that are hit but also many quality sites which use their adsense program in a certain style. By the way I also believe Google really do not have any traffic issues to really be bothered like this.
    Signature

    sheena

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7126115].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    They didn't canjole or entice us into it. The rich quick niche did.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7126261].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    Google should hate AdSense. I advertised on AdWords and my ROI was much lower advertising through the AdSense network than it was through search/search partners.

    Sure, people browsing other sites aren't so interested in my widget, but I was also struck by how junk many of the AdSense sites were, and junk sites attract junk traffic.
    Signature
    ÖŽ FindABlog: Find blogs to comment on, guest posting opportunities and more ÖŽ




    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7126321].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dumkist
    Hey Mike your 100% correct..I tried adsense before and every time I put their junk ads on my sites my rankings dropped like rocks...we'll I wonder why ?? ..Mike your right they just don't want to hear the truth is all..you guys should thank him for trying to help you all before it's to late !
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7126613].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    I know the adsense guys won't like this thread and will try and snipe it

    but its time to lay the cards on the table and give people a business model that works post Penguin, Panda, EMD and the rest of the furry animal updates thats surely still to come. first off lets get the truth out there that at first glance will have the adsense guys laughing

    Google doesn't like adsense sites. In fact they pretty much hate adsense sites, never wanted them and will tank them in a heart beat at the slightest excuse.

    Thats right I said it and it true. People confuse themselves and feel hurt and offended when google tanks their adsense sites because they thought they were in partnership with Google. Google NEVER saw it that way and frankly its very likely that Google is motivated FINANCIALLY to aim their algo updates at tanking strictly adsense sites.

    Adsense was designed to get traffic from webmasters sites that had their own traffic NOT Google search engine traffic. Doing SEO for Adsenses sites already puts you in conflict with adsense goals as far as Google is concerned. google never ever wanted sites that didn't already have their own success at gaining traffic. It being an open system is what led to that.

    NOTE: for clarification a site that is already successful and has its own traffic and business model but that happens to place an adsense ad here and there is not an adsense site as herein defined. Its an otherwise successful site with a business model that allows it to do mutliple advertising or monetization - however that is NOT what 95% of people on this board have and especially not newbies have.

    Its them giving you money for THEIR traffic and as such you cut into their bottom line. If the traffic was at a Google search engine to begin with what they want is for the searcher to click the adwords link right there and cut you out not go to your site and then come back to an adwords customer.

    You are a detriment even a leech to their bottom line plus you junk up their search results which embarasses them and potential causes them to lose market share. IF you have your own traffic then google can live with you and pay you but from their prospective not love you because they would prefer that all traffic started with them

    Second truth - Adsense as a business model has absolutely sucked for most people. Most of the success stories back up the first truth. they generally are not Adsense sites created with adsense in mind. They were successful in getting and keeping traffic. The webmaster decided to put a few adsense ads on after building it - not building it for adsense.

    Even then adsense pays pennies on the dollar its been bad for far more people on this forum than good but a few people claiming success have perpetuated the myth that its a good business model for people in general to go after. It IS NOT unless you already have a successful site online getting good traffic

    So whats the alternative if you don't have your own products to sell? Why not turn to something that has proven to work for DECADES, With a proven business models that employs millions each day.

    Commission sales. We have seen people here do well with affiliate marketing. JV's are another form of this but it also extends far further than the traditional IM kind of affiliate /commission programs. Practically every industry in the world has companies willing to pay out for customers and many pay far more than pennies on the dollar. You can search on the internet and find ton loads of companies willing to pay you for leads, sales, customers with almost no end in site in almost every niche imaginable and you can do this on a passive simple level or even carry it to a professional level by getting certified in an area ( such as insurance as I once did). Your choice. depending on the product or service you can get checks for hundreds of dollars per customer referred. Some niches require nothing more than one sale a week and you make thousands per month.

    Whats more instead of being hooked into one company your checks can come from multiple companies. Instead of venturing into niches that you know nothing about (because of keywords), don't like and will never build authority sites on you can start with YOUR interests, YOUR specialties and what YOU love even pick up new loves and start sites on those as well.

    See the forums these last ten days? Ranking for keywords doesn't give you control of anything. As we have seen you can lose that any day. That does NOT mean Seo is not a viable advertising model but that people have used it entirely the wrong way.

    SEO is to advertise your business not to be your business.

    The real business is having a strong visitor base of return visitors and that can start with SEO. WF can sell anything it wants now because it has that traffic and if tomorrow it got deindexed it wouldn't matter. With billions of people connected you can make money by selling products and services YOU like from multiple companies, get return customers from the hundreds of thousands of people who like what you like (or learn to like) and be the one selling advertising slots to people. Almost no company will turn you down for a commission if you give them a bulk of sales (I have even approached some product sellers who have no commission program at all and they will make one for you if it means multiple sales).

    . Best of all when you start getting return visitors who didn't use Google to come back to you again -

    You won't have to cry how your whole business just went down because of a Google update.

    Short version? - Theres no long term business in owning websites unless you are selling a product or service for yourself or for someone else. to 90% and more of you adsense will continue to suck as it has sucked for years. Don't make any adsense guru tell you otherwise. You are connected to the single greatest search tool ever created to find literally thousands of companies willing to pay you good money for a single customers. If you doubt this then look to adwords itself - How many companies do you see there paying $3-$20 for just a click through and multiply that by a very optimistic 10% conversion to customer rate.

    takes some independent research but if you do it then you are on your way to a real business online
    I definitely agree with the OP in that Adsense is a bad business model for "most new webmasters". I am really beginning to like the lead generation model myself, but on the same note...I don't think Google hates Adsense sites because they have Adsense blocks on them.

    Obviously, in this case, quality matters as it always does. Google wants quality sites in its search results and they want Adsense on those quality sites. They hate low-quality MFA sites as do I.

    It all goes back to quality...if its there, great, if its not, that's bad for Google and their advertising platform. I am sure any advertising company feels the exact same way.
    Signature
    Do Your Copywriting Skills Suck?

    Let Us Help You Develop Your Writing Skills!

    Submit Guest Posts With [ TheBitBot.Com ]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7126751].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Geekgirl01
    The above post makes a VERY good point!!! Your losing your own potential customers and visitors for the sake of $1 through adsense!!! When if you kept that customer on your own site with NO ads that customer could end up spending $$$ on your product/service etc.

    Although I suppose if you have a crappy niche site with 5 pages on content offering sweet FA apart from ads and affiliate then I guess you wouldnt mind!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127258].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
    I am fairly certain this thread has degenerated exactly how Mike planned.

    Friend A: What did you do all weekend?
    Newbie: Got in this massive war on a WF thread, it was brutal
    Friend A: That's sad
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127264].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by Nelapsi View Post

      I am fairly certain this thread has degenerated exactly how Mike planned.

      Friend A: What did you do all weekend?
      Newbie: Got in this massive war on a WF thread, it was brutal
      Friend A: That's sad
      No doubt. Mike Anthony, resident troll of the Adsense/PPC/Discussion Forum at Warrior Forum and general life's loser.

      He claims he's a full-grown man but he spends his times flaming people. Damn...get a life
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127280].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
        Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

        No doubt. Mike Anthony, resident troll of the Adsense/PPC/Discussion Forum at Warrior Forum and general life's loser.

        He claims he's a full-grown man but he spends his times flaming people. Damn...get a life
        Actually if you read the OP he has a very good and valid point with regard to running a website. About 2 weeks ago I would of been looking in the mirror and be one of the people he was talking about. Only by removing Adsense from my sites did I realize first hand just how much I was letting Adsense be a part of the decision process for how I did things on my sites.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127320].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by Nelapsi View Post

          Actually if you read the OP he has a very good and valid point with regard to running a website. About 2 weeks ago I would of been looking in the mirror and be one of the people he was talking about. Only by removing Adsense from my sites did I realize first hand just how much I was letting Adsense be a part of the decision process for how I did things on my sites.
          Mike Anthony is an antagonistic, self-centered know-nothing and cyber bully. You really think someone who just lost their income needs to read a rant like this. This thread is straight up trolling. His little buddy 'Nest' loves making the same type of pointless, attacking, and overly generalized posts.

          Likely this thread will be deleted soon, so I don't want to spend much more time typing.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127389].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
            Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

            Likely this thread will be deleted soon, so I don't want to spend much more time typing.
            Good point.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127501].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
            Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

            Mike Anthony is an antagonistic, self-centered know-nothing and cyber bully. You really think someone who just lost their income needs to read a rant like this. This thread is straight up trolling. His little buddy 'Nest' loves making the same type of pointless, attacking, and overly generalized posts.
            Why not? If people can start useless threads like "Google update just crushed my sites again, Help!" then people should have the right to start these threads up too. Both are entertaining and neither are educational.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127699].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by mosthost View Post


        He claims he's a full-grown man but he spends his times flaming people. Damn...get a life
        LOL I'm thinking of getting one like yours. Go by my overpriced hosting company name, drop my sig more often than not and them claim you have nothing to promote while telling everyone that social networks will do everything for your site an no other form of SEO will help you

        oh and yeah I sure flamed a whole lot of people personally in my OP at least we know your last name is Adsense now
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127905].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          {quote}If you're not happy here, then GTFO. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. [/quote]

          There ya go You always prove my point before I make em. Aint Got no problem being a Grade A cyber bully yourself just can't stand how I blow up 'your points .

          It doesn't matter how you adsense loving guys derail a thread (like I said you would). You only bounce it so more people read it more and then by the time the next algo hits they will realize who was right. Shucks you can even get it deleted now. Who cares? ton loads of people have read who never would if it had sank without being bounced. Kinda like search engine ranking. while you rank high you get your message across so if it tanks later the message has still been delivered
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127975].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          LOL I'm thinking of getting one like yours. Go by my overpriced hosting company name, drop my sig more often than not and them claim you have nothing to promote while telling everyone that social networks will do everything for your site an no other form of SEO will help you

          oh and yeah I sure flamed a whole lot of people personally in my OP at least we know your last name is Adsense now
          Someday you might even have a real business with an address and a phone number. You may even get a paycheck. But really, I doubt it.

          You're in a service business and you're 1) an a-hole and 2) anonymous.

          That alone relegates you to the scraping the barnacles of this joint for clients.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128027].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    This is a bit random, but here goes: if any of you guys got hit BAD this Penguin update and don't mind sharing your sites, please PM me. I can't help you get back in SERPs or anything like that, but I have found (so far) a 100% correlation between *something* -> sites that got hit and a bigger data set would be really helpful.

    Thank you!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127315].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author cagliostro
    So why the clicks value i earn is much-much better when the user came from google search and the click value is so low when the user comes from a website (a referrer not from seach engines) ?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127738].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author boxoun
    Stop trolling mosthost. Get a life bro. Sounds like you've been attacked by mike lol. Let it go man.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127781].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nest28
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      You've mentioned leaving in multiple threads.

      If you're not happy here, then GTFO. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

      Either that, or make a positive contribution for once where you don't complain about what other people are doing.
      I have twice the amount of thanx as you and much less post, there are at least 7 threads were I have plenty of thanx in the OP.

      For long time I did nothing but contribute to this forum, but your right aint no sense sticking around in place you hate, I've already made arrangements to take care of that.
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      Mike Anthony is an antagonistic, self-centered know-nothing and cyber bully. You really think someone who just lost their income needs to read a rant like this. This thread is straight up trolling. His little buddy 'Nest' loves making the same type of pointless, attacking, and overly generalized posts.

      Likely this thread will be deleted soon, so I don't want to spend much more time typing.
      Check my profile, all I did was tell people to make good websites, don't backlink, or spam the net.

      I already said in post 12 that I was against Mike continuing this discussion, I knew way back than were it would lead, and I was right.


      If funny how everyone hates me so much, I never sold crappy links or WSO that's full of baloney.
      Signature

      Somewhere watching Power.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127843].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
    A typical Mike Anthony's thread who is obsessed with networks so much that he think even Google pisses after seeing his network and keep forgetting BMR and others. I think every solution according to Mike will be a network. If you are a newbie you have to build a network, if you want to make money you have to build a network rest everything suck right Mike ?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127825].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Rohit View Post

      I think every solution according to Mike will be a network. If you are a newbie you have to build a network, if you want to make money you have to build a network rest everything suck right Mike ?


      Actually no . Link exchanges are the bomb as well, so is guest posting and so is any form of link building where you get a link on a high authority page within content' Let me guest SenukeX guy right? I'd be angry at my types too after you lost a bunch of sites.

      Flame on. It s a monday morning and some of have still sites that rank and can still rank to attend to
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128060].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Becker13
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post



        Actually no . Link exchanges are the bomb as well, so is guest posting and so is any form of link building where you get a link on a high authority page within content' Let me guest SenukeX guy right? I'd be angry at my types too after you lost a bunch of sites.

        Flame on. It s a monday morning and some of have still sites that rank and can still rank to attend to

        And whoever is flaming networks....Are you a idiot? Have you ever ranked for a searches that people actually care about? Searches like "Credit repair" or "Buy cars" well I have...Ands its not done with SEO tools or the mental masturbation you read on these forums

        Building networks is truly the only way to compete in real big money searches ( I am talking searches where your clients pay 5+ figures a month to be first page) And when you have a good network running (50-100 PR 4-5 sites) You can literally rank for whatever you want, when you want..

        The only reason why no one really pumps this here is because A) No one can afford it B) You cant sell this to anyone in a WSO because they want free happy time no work SEO strategies

        Tools are great for uncompetitive niches, but in 6 figure niches where your competition is spending 200k a year on SEO (Seriously most big SEO agencies require a minimum of 25k a month for big boy searches..You think your gonna beat them with your 147 subscription to SEnuke)...Sorry, your gonna need the big guns

        No amount of free SEO is going to beat 300 relevant PR 5 sites pointing at a website, and if you keep those links to yourself and dont show em off to the world like idiots who run blog networks...Your sites are not going anywhere

        Now dont get me wrong, I make a ton of random SEO niches. But if you REALLY want to get serious about agency level SEO, then you might want to educate yourself a wee bit before you flame networks
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128101].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

          And whoever is flaming networks...Seriously learn to do decent SEO.

          Building networks is truly the only way to compete in real big money searches ( I am talking searches where your clients pay 5+ figures a month to be first page)

          Tools are great for uncompetitive niches, but in 6 figure niches where your competition is spending 200k a year on SEO...Sorry, your gonna need the big guns

          No amount of free SEO is going to beat 100 relevant PR 5 sites pointing at a website
          Yep that's how it works.

          Henry are you reading this? ^^

          :p
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128120].message }}
          • Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

            Yep that's how it works.

            Henry are you reading this? ^^

            :p
            Yeah i read it.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128445].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author nik0
              Banned
              Originally Posted by HenrySEO89 View Post

              Yeah i read it.
              Now do something with it, I know you can do so much better then what you're doing now. The better links you sell, the more serious clients you'll attract which automatically equals larger clients. Without kidding, at the moment I attract about 5-10 new clients a week from all my sales thread (which is pretty poor), but I still process 30-50 orders a week.

              Why is that? Cause of tons of repeat business that build up over the last 8-9 months and the new clients often order 5+ packages at the same time.

              You can make / build up a killing here if you do it right!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128531].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

          And whoever is flaming networks...Seriously learn to do decent SEO.

          Building networks is truly the only way to compete in real big money searches ( I am talking searches where your clients pay 5+ figures a month to be first page)

          Tools are great for uncompetitive niches, but in 6 figure niches where your competition is spending 200k a year on SEO...Sorry, your gonna need the big guns

          No amount of free SEO is going to beat 100 relevant PR 5 sites pointing at a website
          Is that where you compete? In the six figure niches? Wow, a 100 relevant PR 5 links. Gosh, nothing could ever beat that.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128125].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

            Is that where you compete? In the six figure niches? Wow, a 100 relevant PR 5 links. Gosh, nothing could ever beat that.
            1 PR7 link equals 5 PR6 links wasn't it?

            1 PR6 links equals 5 PR5 links

            So 5 PR7 links beat 100 PR5 links.

            At least theoretically, such a damn shame those good PR7 ones are so hard to find. If anyone has one of them please make me an offer.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128196].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author mosthost
              Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

              1 PR7 link equals 5 PR6 links wasn't it?

              1 PR6 links equals 5 PR5 links

              So 5 PR7 links beat 100 PR5 links.

              At least theoretically, such a damn shame those good PR7 ones are so hard to find. If anyone has one of them please make me an offer.
              I think "Becker" is also suggesting the best SEO strategy is to buy 100 dropped PR 5 domains and then link to your 'money site.'

              After all, he's the 20 year old kid with the world's largest SEO budget, so I guess that advice makes a little bit of sense. But for the average person, it's frigging crazy.

              He's making $200,000 a year as an 'SEO' an he has a PR 0 web site with the possibly the worst friggin' backlink profile I've ever seen in my life.

              These guys giving out business model advice here are the funniest dudes online.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128219].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author nik0
                Banned
                Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

                I think "Becker" is also suggesting the best SEO strategy is to buy 100 dropped PR 5 domains and then link to your 'money site.'

                After all, he's the 20 year old kid with the world's largest SEO budget, so I guess that advice makes a little bit of sense. But for the average person, it's frigging crazy.

                He's making $200,000 a year as an 'SEO' an he has a PR 0 web site with the possibly the worst friggin' backlink profile I've ever seen in my life.

                These guys giving out business model advice here are the funniest dudes online.
                Now, I won't judge a person on the backlink profile in anyone's sig on this forum. I haven't linked from any of my private network sites to my website Seo service group. In fact I tested quite some Fiverr gigs on it.

                But bold promotional sigs like ranking in 24 hrs, I just hate that cause there are noobs that will buy that shit while it's the biggest nonsense ever obviously.

                What amazed me even more was this case study about EMD sites 2 days after it was launched lol, and then starting to claim that it has to do with the back link profile, uhuuuu :rolleyes:. This forum is getting more crazy every day.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128468].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Becker13
                Banned
                Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

                I think "Becker" is also suggesting the best SEO strategy is to buy 100 dropped PR 5 domains and then link to your 'money site.'

                After all, he's the 20 year old kid with the world's largest SEO budget, so I guess that advice makes a little bit of sense. But for the average person, it's frigging crazy.

                He's making $200,000 a year as an 'SEO' an he has a PR 0 web site with the possibly the worst friggin' backlink profile I've ever seen in my life.

                These guys giving out business model advice here are the funniest dudes online.
                Why would I ever do that for a SEO money site

                I do that for clients, and yes 20% of what they pay covers that. And yes when you build networks and use that budget to get links from the right places, they rank for almost anything you want.

                I'm not sure why that model is surprising to you at all. Spending 20-30% of a clients pay to simply buy the right links is pretty common practice for SEO agencies.

                This is of course not doable for a standard SEO site because of the cost.

                I do next to no standard SEO for Source Wave. Authorship/knowledge graph SEO is working much better in a niche like SEO blogging.

                I mean ranking in 24 hours for big SEO news would be a good SEO strategy right?





                Naww....I should be wasting my time growing my page rank like you!

                I also focus 95% of my attention on getting traffic from other sources and places like pro blogger, pmi, and other online publications. Works 100x faster and the traffic converts 100x better. Also Considering the site already has a subscriber base of 15k+ at 7 months old and has gotten me a truckload of SEO business, I think I might be doing something right.

                my time would be much better spent increasing the PR and trying rank a brand new site for something like "SEO consultant "though...right? Even though doing that would get me 1/10th of the traffic I get now..

                But hey...you already know better than me since your running a successful SEO agency and a very large SEO resource...oh wait..

                Kudos on being a warrior forum SEO expert though, I sure wish I had my shit together like you...

                lol
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7129031].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
                  Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

                  I also focus 95% of my attention on getting traffic from other source and places like pro blogger, pmi, and other online publications. Works 100x faster and the traffic converts 100x better.

                  But hey...you already know that since your running a successful SEO agency and a very large SEO blog...oh wait..

                  Kudos on being a SEO expert though, I sure wish I had my shit together like you
                  Out of curiosity, is "Source-Wave.com" the SEO agency and blog you're referring to?
                  Signature
                  Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7129046].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author mosthost
                  Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

                  my time would be much better spent increasing the PR and trying rank a brand new site for something like "SEO consultant "though...right? Even though doing that would get me 1/10th of the traffic I get now..

                  But hey...you already know better than me since your running a successful SEO agency and a very large SEO resource...oh wait..

                  Kudos on being a SEO expert though, I sure wish I had my shit together like you

                  lol
                  I'm so blessed to be in the presence of SEO greatness. Hopefully some it will rub off. Rubbing elbows with you and M.A. is a real pleasure.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7129092].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
                  Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

                  Why would I ever do that for a SEO money site

                  I do that for clients, and yes 20% of what they pay covers that. And yes when you build networks and use that budget to get links from the right places, they rank for almost anything you want.

                  I'm not sure why that model is surprising to you at all. Spending 20-30% of a clients pay to simply buy the right links is pretty common practice for SEO agencies.

                  This is of course not doable for a standard SEO site because of the cost.

                  I do next to no standard SEO for Source Wave. Authorship/knowledge graph SEO is working much better in a niche like SEO blogging.

                  I mean ranking in 24 hours for big SEO news would be a good SEO strategy right?





                  Naww....I should be wasting my time growing my page rank like you!

                  I also focus 95% of my attention on getting traffic from other sources and places like pro blogger, pmi, and other online publications. Works 100x faster and the traffic converts 100x better. Also Considering the site already has a subscriber base of 15k+ at 7 months old and has gotten me a truckload of SEO business, I think I might be doing something right.

                  my time would be much better spent increasing the PR and trying rank a brand new site for something like "SEO consultant "though...right? Even though doing that would get me 1/10th of the traffic I get now..

                  But hey...you already know better than me since your running a successful SEO agency and a very large SEO resource...oh wait..

                  Kudos on being a warrior forum SEO expert though, I sure wish I had my shit together like you...

                  lol
                  Just for the record. I just searched for EMD update and your site is number 10. This is your bigtime strategy to get traffic?

                  I searched from two different machines. On the one you're not in the top 20 and in the other you're in number 10. It's a good thing you took a screen capture when the page was still fresh
                  Signature
                  Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7129236].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post



        Actually no . Link exchanges are the bomb as well, so is guest posting and so is any form of link building where you get a link on a high authority page within content' Let me guest SenukeX guy right? I'd be angry at my types too after you lost a bunch of sites.

        Flame on. It s a monday morning and some of have still sites that rank and can still rank to attend to
        Naah, not SeNuke, Nuke do more bad than good. I build most of link myself manually mostly by guest posting or blog commenting. I have small websites that ranks well and that enough for cover the expenses of a student.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128762].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by Rohit View Post

          Naah, not SeNuke, Nuke do more bad than good. I build most of link myself manually mostly by guest posting or blog commenting. I have small websites that ranks well and that enough for cover the expenses of a student.
          Don't let him ever discover your website or you'll be in for a real tongue-lashing
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128793].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mosthost
      Originally Posted by Rohit View Post

      A typical Mike Anthony's thread who is obsessed with networks so much that he think even Google pisses after seeing his network and keep forgetting BMR and others. I think every solution according to Mike will be a network. If you are a newbie you have to build a network, if you want to make money you have to build a network rest everything suck right Mike ?
      Two phrases come to mind when considering Mike Anthony.

      1) When all you have is a hammer...everything looks like a nail.
      2) In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128071].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    If anyone really wants to know me and the kind person I am, check the sig, than check the profile, I reached out to help newbies more than anyone else here, that's fact.

    I answered every pm, and always treated other people problem as if they were my own, this thread is a example of what I hate, and the classic forum mentality, one person see some one call me Mikes buddy, now everyone is doing it.

    I don't regret backing up a friend , but this thread should have never been started.

    Just waiting on MODs to delete this thread and my account. Good luck to everyone, hope you make million dollars.
    Signature

    Somewhere watching Power.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127884].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

      If anyone really wants to know me and the kind person I am, check the sig, than check the profile, I reached out to help newbies more than anyone else here, that's fact.

      I answered every pm, and always treated other people problem as if they were my own, this thread is a example of what I hate, and the classic forum mentality, one person see some one call me Mikes buddy, now everyone is doing it.

      I don't regret backing up a friend , but this thread should have never been started.

      Just waiting on MODs to delete this thread and my account. Good luck to everyone, hope you make million dollars.
      Can I have your "thank you's" , I'm a bit short on them :p

      Nah Nest, quit the complaining and tell the mods to not delete your account.

      If you make threads like this is bad, that is bad then you can expect such comments from people.

      In Holland we have a special saying for it:

      "wie kaatst kan de bal terug verwachten"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127960].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Can I have your "thank you's" , I'm a bit short on them :p
        Just donated a "thank you". Hope that helps you a little on your journey to becoming WarriorForums next ..???
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127990].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by bnetwork View Post

          Just donated a "thank you". Hope that helps you a little on your journey to becoming WarriorForums next ..???
          TOP Model!

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128064].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nest28
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Can I have your "thank you's" , I'm a bit short on them :p

        Nah Nest, quit the complaining and tell the mods to not delete your account.

        If you make threads like this is bad, that is bad then you can expect such comments from people.

        In Holland we have a special saying for it:

        "wie kaatst kan de bal terug verwachten"
        This thread aint the main reason, you can't think outside the box here, everyone here is in Adsense/ Amazon jail, it's like being in a time where people still think the earth is flat.

        If I stayed here there thinking might become my thinking and I don't want that.
        Signature

        Somewhere watching Power.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127992].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          This thread aint the main reason, you can't think outside the box here, everyone here is in Adsense/ Amazon jail, it's like being in a time where people still think the earth is flat.

          If I stayed here there thinking might become my thinking and I don't want that.
          LOL nest honestly... you can do whatever you like with your sites, no one cares. They're your sites == your money == good money in your bank account bro - stuff that pays your bills, mortgage and buys you freedom! Random forum threads shouldn't influence your money making capabilities. I make far more running insurance submits than I do through Adsense, but you don't see me crying that people use Amazon/Adsense or whatever for monetization. It's an easy way to get started and let's face it - most of you can't build half decent "money" sites, how on earth are you ever going to figure out other monetization methods.

          I just don't understand why you care about this so much. Load up your daily conversion reports, smile and then tell me if you still care about a random "Adsense is bad" discussion on some forum somewhere. This is what I don't get. .. at all.

          Are you so easily influenced by what others say (post - even better lol) on a random forum that it might ruin your chances to make money and turn you into some sort of non-functioning Adsense drone? Really bro, you can do better than this.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128041].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mosthost
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          This thread aint the main reason, you can't think outside the box here, everyone here is in Adsense/ Amazon jail, it's like being in a time where people still think the earth is flat.

          If I stayed here there thinking might become my thinking and I don't want that.
          So you aren't leaving then? Good thing you got your helmet on. Now grow some thick skin.

          Congrats on having twice as many "thanks" as I do. I think you earned those when you wrote that useless post about how you had your ass kicked in IM and how you were going to building linkless websites.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128042].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author nik0
          Banned
          Originally Posted by nest28 View Post

          This thread aint the main reason, you can't think outside the box here, everyone here is in Adsense/ Amazon jail, it's like being in a time where people still think the earth is flat.

          If I stayed here there thinking might become my thinking and I don't want that.
          You know what you should do?

          Try Commission Junction!

          They have so much to offer there and I heard much better deals then Amazon/Adsense.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128055].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SeoKnightsInc
    If you cant adapt a model whats others mistake stop preaching the things you dont have any idea about. There are thousands of persons making a living on adsense who cares if you cant. Everyone cant make networks like you and that's not the only thing where a person can earn from. If you really want to be idealistic and caring about Google guidelines than i think google hate those crappy networks more than adsense.

    I wonder why people with so many post doesn't have any other way to pass there time than just trying boost there knowledge.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    and yes i will miss you mike if you leave cuz you are the among those very few persons here who can argue with everyone till last even they have no idea of what they are talking about thinking themselves to be perfect.

    Sorry Man but you really dont have any idea about adsense.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127928].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
    Drop me a line I will tank all of your sites. Adsense or no Adsense. Wait, what?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127964].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nest28
    Mike your really good guy and a funny as dude, but no one sees that here, I started out cheerful, wanting to help, now look at me, I can't help but to rant about this or that. You don't need this place to have a business, almost every successful market online don't even know what the hell the WF is.

    Here your known for networks, ans starting arguments, if you built your own site, you could be known for great things. If the guy that runs problogger came here they would hate him to, but on his own site he is considered a great success.

    You don't care what people think and that's great, at the same time you don't need to be at a place who have nothing good to say about you, even if you were dead wrong about the OP, people didn't have to come at you the way they did.

    Leave, you planned on doing so at 5,500 anyways.
    Signature

    Somewhere watching Power.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127967].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nelapsi
    With every post this thread gets more and more like watching the Special Olympics
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7127984].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Becker13
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

    I know the adsense guys won't like this thread and will try and snipe it

    but its time to lay the cards on the table and give people a business model that works post Penguin, Panda, EMD and the rest of the furry animal updates thats surely still to come. first off lets get the truth out there that at first glance will have the adsense guys laughing

    Everything else
    Hell...to the yes...

    Like seriously...Has there EVER been a "adsense" site that has last more than 2 years. How is this STILL even a "business strategy.

    If you walked into a real business and said "look guys here is how we are gonna make money. We are going to get traffic from this company and them PAY us to get the traffic back. Oh and just FYI, they actively state they are trying to kill this business on their twitter feed every day..All in?"



    and I think the big focus needs to be SEO IS A WAY TO ADVERTISE YOUR BUSINESS

    It is totally f%$ktarded when I see people saying their "business" collapsed on here..

    Sorry bestworkofficechairsreviews.com is not a real business, the fact that its income goes to zero the SECOND Google removes your traffic is proof of that.

    The fact that people still make this type of crap and claim to be "marketers" is just insanity and even funnier is that even after all these nukes people are still trying to figure out a new way to rank their adsense sites INSTEAD of finding a real way to make a online business

    A business based off "leeching" against a unwilling host "Google" is doomed before it even gets started
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128083].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
      Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

      Hell...to the yes...

      Like seriously...Has there EVER been a "adsense" site that has last more than 2 years. How is this STILL even a "business strategy.
      I'd listen to this guy, he's a CEO. :p

      Hell... to the yes, yo.

      Not hating on you, just thought it was funny.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128096].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    Why would anyone take business lessons from you Mike?

    RankAndLearn.com isn't a business.

    It's a website with a PayPal button.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128201].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

      Why would take business lessons from you Mike?

      RankAndLearn.com isn't a business.

      It's a website with a PayPal button.
      Actually in a way you are right . That site isn't a business. Its just one site of a larger setup. The only site I will never SEO because it faces toward WF (anyone who doesn't understand that doing so exposes SEO tactics and resources is a newb ). I'd comment further but I don't need to , by attacking even Paul and Becker you pretty much have done your credibility in to anyone who has any sense. so you can be ignored here on in. Plus a host that can't make any leverage on WHT despite trying has no reviews anywhere that would indicate any market presence is bound to be angry so feel free to let off more steam. I'd be upset too if a "website with a paypal button" was making more than I was.

      BY the way becker never indicated anywhere he expected people here to buy 100 PR5 he was talking about an ultra competitve serp and what would work to rank it. You are pretty much clueless on SEO so you missed the point entirely
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128292].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mosthost
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Actually in a way you are right . That site isn't a business. Its just one site of a larger setup. The only site I will never SEO because it faces toward WF. I'd comment further but I don't need to , by attacking even Paul and Becker you pretty much have done your credibility in to anyone who has any sense. so you can be ignored here on in. Plus a host that can't make any leverage on WHT despite trying has no reviews anywhere that would indicate any market presence is bound to be angry so feel free to let off more steam.
        By attacking 'PaulGL' I lost all my credibility? Get serious. PaulGL is a part-time IMer. He said so himself. He is also a 'novelty account.' He has no links to any real world business and he attacks others on here.

        His MO is very similar to yours. Hide yourself as much as you can and then attack. With you you're pretty big on attacking signatures. You want all the attention on your own and you HATE it when anyone has a sig.

        You've critiqued my business and tactics many times, usually over something as trivial as your desire to win an argument. Well, you've linked to "Rank and Earn" now. If that's an example of the work you do, then you're the one who's 'overpriced.'

        Your site is riddled with incoherent babble, grammatical errors, and ridiculous claims. There are multiple 'coming soon' pages and broken links.

        Anyone who would actually buy SEO, training, or even take free advice from you needs their head examined.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128414].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by mosthost View Post

          Anyone who would actually buy SEO, training, or even take free advice from you needs their head examined.
          Bleh. You are spewing at everyone because you can't make it in the hosting business. I've never had a single complaint from a customer as to the quality of my network training and I consider my site fine for one that is just for this forum. If it were my only Public facing presence then yes you would have a point. I'd get a logo better than clipart and a waiter serving champagne (really? for hosting services? ) Your not my customer just a troll trying to get a thread deleted like you have done before. your credibility around is here is zilch. when anyone mentions who they respect and whose post they read no one ever says Mosthost.

          Besides a host that can't tell the difference between Joomla and wordpress is for all intents and purposes worthless.

          Case closed.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128507].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author mosthost
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Bleh. You are spewing at everyone because you can't make it in the hosting business. I've never had a single complaint from a customer as to the quality of my network training and I consider my site fine for one that is just for this forum. If it were my only Public facing presence then yes you would have a point. I'd get a logo better than clipart and a waiter serving champagne (really? for hosting services? ) Your not my customer just a troll trying to get a thread deleted like you have done before. your credibility around is here is zilch. when anyone mentions who they respect and whose post they read no one ever says Mosthost.
            I've been in the hosting business since 1998. I've worked for myself since 1991. You, on the other hand, are a forum troll.

            I could care less if they close this thread. Why would you care so much?

            LOL, when people mention who they respect they mention you? You're seriously deluded. Keep it up.

            I'm busy earning money, not trying to earn the respect of people on a forum. Damn, you sound like a teeny bopper.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128690].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author JoshMcNary
              I feel like OP is making a misguided assumption about the business model of Google.

              While it's true that Google makes superior advertising money if an ad is clicked in the SERP's rather than inside a site, you can't say that if all Adsense sites were removed from Google searches, that Google would be better off as far as revenue.

              The truth is, a well crafted site will be able to out convert the Google search page, and if Google only earns 30% commission through Adsense, this means a landing page/site needs to convert 3.33x as much as the Google search for it to be a positive revenue source. If you're converting less than this, then you're a "leech" as OP says.

              However, if you're able to convert 5x, 10x, 20x what the Google searches do, then you're a gem in Google's eyes, or at least you should be because this is a mutually beneficial relationship, and not a costly one for Google.

              This is just a theory, but if you focus on conversion rates with Adsense, Google most likely has a system to help boost you in rankings because after all, if you're converting on a ton of their ads, they want you to be on the top (or should).

              It doesn't make sense for Google to punish someone just because they're an Adsense publisher. It does make sense for them to punish a shitty Adsense publisher.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7128812].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony