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Where to host my new PR4.

by Danny Woolard
23 replies
  • SEO
    • |
Just bought a new PR4 site, and I want to put a link from the home page to my money site.

It's my first purchased site, and I need to save some money.

Would it by okay to host it on the same server/ip as money site?

I would think if it's just one site and related niche, google would be fine with it...It's not like I have a whole farm of sites.

?
#host #pr4
  • Profile picture of the author gotlinks
    I would get a diff ip for it.

    And write new content for the site containing your link. Do not just place the link on the sidebar.
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  • Profile picture of the author NestZone
    Get a different host so that you can have a different IP for it
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    You need Whois Privacy too.
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  • Profile picture of the author dburk
    Hi denutza,

    There is absolutely no reason, related to SEO, to host it on a different IP address. IP addresses are not a ranking factor. Since you are linking the pages, you are making a clear signal of affiliation so the same, or different, IP address has no effect.
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    • Profile picture of the author gotlinks
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      You need Whois Privacy too.
      That is simply not true.

      Originally Posted by dburk View Post

      Hi denutza,

      There is absolutely no reason, related to SEO, to host it on a different IP address. IP addresses are not a ranking factor. Since you are linking the pages, you are making a clear signal of affiliation so the same, or different, IP address has no effect.
      I'm not sure about that. Google takes so many factors into consideration why wouldn't the consider the same hosted ip linking to each other as a way of spam detection? It would be easy for Google to do so.

      Either way, get a separate c-class ip just in case to be safe OP.
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      • Profile picture of the author dburk
        Originally Posted by gotlinks View Post

        That is simply not true.



        I'm not sure about that. Google takes so many factors into consideration why wouldn't the consider the same hosted ip linking to each other as a way of spam detection? It would be easy for Google to do so.

        Hi gotlinks,

        That's easy to answer. What makes something into webspam is never based on the IP address.

        Do you really think that an IP address can turn a high quality page, designed to provide high value to users, into web spam?

        Google is concerned with the quality, utility, and relevance of the page. The IP address has no influence on those factors. I assure you that Google does not use the IP address as a signal of relevancy, quality, or usefulness.

        Google does look at affiliations. Since you are linking the pages, you have already established an affiliation, a common IP address has no measurable effect after that link is established. Google does look at IP addresses to establish affiliations, which can in certain cases pass Trust values between affiliated pages, This is a positive thing, not something that should be avoided.
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        • Profile picture of the author gotlinks
          Originally Posted by dburk View Post

          Hi gotlinks,

          That's easy to answer. What makes something into webspam is never based on the IP address.

          Do you really think that an IP address can turn a high quality page, designed to provide high value to users, into web spam?

          Google is concerned with the quality, utility, and relevance of the page. The IP address has no influence on those factors. I assure you that Google does not use the IP address as a signal of relevancy, quality, or usefulness.

          Google does look at affiliations. Since you are linking the pages, you have already established an affiliation, a common IP address has no measurable effect after that link is established. Google does look at IP addresses to establish affiliations, which can in certain cases pass Trust values between affiliated pages, This is a positive thing, not something that should be avoided.
          Oh im not saying Google def does. Im just saying if I was Google hell yes I would and itd be easy to capture spam and blog networks from crappy providers very easily.

          So to be safe for $4/mo its worth it.
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          • Profile picture of the author dburk
            Originally Posted by gotlinks View Post

            Oh im not saying Google def does. Im just saying if I was Google hell yes I would and itd be easy to capture spam and blog networks from crappy providers very easily.

            So to be safe for $4/mo its worth it.
            I sorry, I must have not made my point very clear.

            If you have good content, you will want Google to find it, and you'll want them to be aware of every affiliation.

            Your suggestion "to be safe" seems to be based on a strategy of using web spam, and then attempting to hide the affiliation. Google is too good at detecting webspam for that to work, so it is a waste of time and money. They already have the link to follow, so using a different IP address accomplishes nothing. If you have an affiliation they will find it, and if you do not have an affiliation it will not benefit you.

            Google looks at the content of the page to determine whether it is useful, relevant, and trustworthy. If they find it to be "crappy" webspam it will not pass value to the links, even if you place the content on a different IP address. It would just be silly for Google to say "hey this crappy web spam is on a different IP address so lets pass some link juice from this crappy web spam page." The different IP address isn't going to make it into valuable content.

            If there was any benefit from using different IP addresses, then every top ranked website would host every page of their website on a different IP address. Since that doesn't work, you will not see any top-ranked sites doing it, right? Instead we see that top ranked website typically host all their pages on the same IP and usually the same domain name.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by dburk View Post

              I sorry, I must have not made my point very clear.

              If you have good content, you will want Google to find it, and you'll want them to be aware of every affiliation.
              Don I know this is like one of your favorite subjects and you and I have gone at it before so I am bored now but thats just one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. You will probably come back with something about links being affiliations but thats just a - duh moment - beyond the links there is no reason to make Google aware of every affiliation you have with another site regardless of content.

              P.S. If you are referring to the site in your sig I strongly doubt your site is ranking for anything much less proving that not haivign your sites on different IPs doesn't benefit.
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              • Profile picture of the author dburk
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Don I know this is like one of your favorite subjects and you and I have gone at it before so I am bored now but thats just one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. You will probably come back with something about links being affiliations but thats just a - duh moment - beyond the links there is no reason to make Google aware of every affiliation you have with another site regardless of content.

                P.S. If you are referring to the site in your sig I strongly doubt your site is ranking for anything much less proving that not haivign your sites on different IPs doesn't benefit.
                Hi Mike,

                Yep, the reported primary motivation for Brin to build the backrub project (later renamed Google) was to discover affiliations... wait for it.... via backlinks. :p

                And yes, I agree, once you have built a backlink, there is no need to do more to make Google aware of that affiliation, they are very good at discovering affiliations via backlinks, as that was the original idea behind developing the original technology that Google runs on. That was the point I was trying make, glad you got it.

                Oh, I just checked and my website does rank #1 for dburk, just as intended, thanks for reminding me to check that.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by dburk View Post

                  That was the point I was trying make, glad you got it.
                  Yes which is why the reference to good content was so nonsensical in reference to affiliaton. If its just links then it would hardly matter. Unfortunately you didn't get it.

                  Oh, I just checked and my website does rank #1 for dburk, just as intended, thanks for reminding me to check that.
                  Which means your SEO sucks even more than I had imagined. The first step in SEO is to rank for something enough people are searching for . this is why you will never see me pointing to any site I have done no SEO to and claim that I "Rank". If no one is searching for a term its like you saying you came first in the "race" when you alone were jogging around the block.

                  LOL this is a great example guys why you shouldn't take what somebody says when they say something works for them - they just might mean they rank for Dburk.

                  Shucks My profile here ranks number one for "Mike Anthony SEO" with no SEO
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                  • Profile picture of the author dburk
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Yes which is why the reference to good content was so nonsensical in reference to affiliaton. If its just links then it would hardly matter. Unfortunately you didn't get it.



                    Which means your SEO sucks even more than I had imagined. The first step in SEO is to rank for something enough people are searching for . this is why you will never see me pointing to any site I have done no SEO to and claim that I "Rank". If no one is searching for a term its like you saying you came first in the "race" when you alone were jogging around the block.

                    LOL this is a great example guys why you shouldn't take what somebody says when they say something works for them - they just might mean they rank for Dburk.

                    Shucks My profile here ranks number one for "Mike Anthony SEO" with no SEO
                    LOL, you fell for my troll bait!
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    I've tested this extensively.

    Use IP hosting in a separate service with masked or different Whois information.

    If you don't, Google will detect this site as 'related.' They will discount the value of the link, rendering your investment in the dropped domain virtually worthless.
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    • Profile picture of the author gotlinks
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      I've tested this extensively.

      Use IP hosting in a separate service with masked or different Whois information.

      If you don't, Google will detect this site as 'related.' They will discount the value of the link, rendering your investment in the dropped domain virtually worthless.
      How did you test this?
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by gotlinks View Post

        How did you test this?
        By doing it both ways.

        I had a small network of websites on the same IP range that had the same whois. I linked to a different website and got minimal results.

        Then I went through the added trouble of masking whois on new 'dropped domains' I bought and put them on separate hosting accounts. These moved up higher.

        Prior to late 2010 or so this wasn't as big of a factor. In the last few years, Google has made this is a bigger deal. They must figure most people won't go through all this trouble to rank. Apparently they misunderstand

        I'm no longer transparent when dealing with Google. I take all the following precautions when 'cross-linking' sites under my control.
        • Separate hosting (including IP and name server and even company)
        • Masked whois
        • Different themes/writing styles/etc.
        • No common backlink signatures.

        It's a bigger pain in the *ss, but it's worth it.
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        • Profile picture of the author dburk
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          By doing it both ways.

          I had a small network of websites on the same IP range that had the same whois. I linked to a different website and got minimal results.

          Then I went through the added trouble of masking whois on new 'dropped domains' I bought and put them on separate hosting accounts. These moved up higher.

          Prior to late 2010 or so this wasn't as big of a factor. In the last few years, Google has made this is a bigger deal. They must figure most people won't go through all this trouble to rank. Apparently they misunderstand

          I'm no longer transparent when dealing with Google. I take all the following precautions when 'cross-linking' sites under my control.
          • Separate hosting (including IP and name server and even company)
          • Masked whois
          • Different themes/writing styles/etc.
          • No common backlink signatures.

          It's a bigger pain in the *ss, but it's worth it.
          Hi PerformanceMan,

          I do the opposite and it works well every time.

          I use the exact same public whois info, put dozens of domains all on the same host, same IP, even the same Wordpress script. I crosslink all the pages, and the sites, in a way that is useful to users. I use the same Google Analytics account and the same Google Webmaster Tools account. They rank well, they earn great PR on internal pages, they attract a lot of traffic and provide a great ROI.

          Why does mine work well, when yours does not?

          My guess would be that I build sites for users, with high quality, relevant and useful content, and link them together in a way that is useful to users. It's more work than spewing web spam, but it's worth it.
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          • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
            Originally Posted by dburk View Post

            Hi PerformanceMan,

            I do the opposite and it works well every time.

            I use the exact same public whois info, put dozens of domains all on the same host, same IP, even the same Wordpress script. I crosslink all the pages, and the sites, in a way that is useful to users. I use the same Google Analytics account and the same Google Webmaster Tools account. They rank well, they earn great PR on internal pages, they attract a lot of traffic and provide a great ROI.

            Why does mine work well, when yours does not?

            My guess would be that I build sites for users, with high quality, relevant and useful content, and link them together in a way that is useful to users. It's more work than spewing web spam, but it's worth it.
            Don,

            I don't 'spew spam' as you so eloquently called it. I work for small business clients who desire to rank higher in search engines.

            My only goal is to make them more money. When they get paid from their search engine traffic, they're happy to keep paying me. It's a symbiotic relationship.

            I don't work for or with Google. Google has proven themselves to be unreliable even in a tenuous 'partner relationship.' They're a big multinational company that couldn't give a crap about me or my clients. I love my clients! They love their high rankings.

            You know the type of clients I have. Real people who own 'storage units.' Do you know these people just don't have the time or inclination to 'write high quality' content extolling the virtues of their 'storage bin?' They aren't going to become social media superstars or 'develop relationships' with other 'storage unit' website owners.

            They went into business to make money selling out their units. I'm here to help them Everything I do is 'white hat' and involves 'great content.' But I don't go out of my way to tell Google about any of it. That's not my job.
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            • Profile picture of the author dburk
              Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

              Don,

              I don't 'spew spam' as you so eloquently called it. I work for small business clients who desire to rank higher in search engines.

              My only goal is to make them more money. When they get paid from their search engine traffic, they're happy to keep paying me. It's a symbiotic relationship.

              I don't work for or with Google. Google has proven themselves to be unreliable even in a tenuous 'partner relationship.' They're a big multinational company that couldn't give a crap about me or my clients. I love my clients! They love their high rankings.

              You know the type of clients I have. Real people who own 'storage units.' Do you know these people just don't have the time or inclination to 'write high quality' content extolling the virtues of their 'storage bin?' They aren't going to become social media superstars or 'develop relationships' with other 'storage unit' website owners.

              They went into business to make money selling out their units. I'm here to help them Everything I do is 'white hat' and involves 'great content.' But I don't go out of my way to tell Google about any of it. That's not my job.
              Hi PerformanceMan,

              I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were "spewing spam", only that you were advocating a strategy for hiding link affiliations, which wouldn't be necessary, except in the context of this discussion, where gotlinks posts:
              Im just saying if I was Google hell yes I would and itd be easy to capture spam and blog networks from crappy providers very easily.
              I'm glad to hear that you have real business clients, and especially happy to hear that you are not spewing web spam.

              However, that does beg the question, why are you advocating hiding affiliations from Google? I know you say you tested this, but were your test methods valid? Did you have an adequate sample size? Did you isolate third causes? Can the results be repeated? And why are so many high profile websites able to do the opposite and get top rankings?
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              • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
                Originally Posted by dburk View Post

                However, that does beg the question, why are you advocating hiding affiliations from Google? I know you say you tested this, but were your test methods valid? Did you have an adequate sample size? Did you isolate third causes? Can the results be repeated? And why are so many high profile websites able to do the opposite and get top rankings?
                My sample size is the same size as yours. My testing methods are the same identical testing procedures as yours.

                You aren't providing proof based on the 'scientific method' and neither I am.

                The proof will come fast enough when the OP does what he plans on doing and sees 'minimal boost.'

                I advocate hiding affiliations from Google because it gives me a benefit to do so. I derive NO BENEFIT from telling Google what I'm doing. I don't need their 'Webmasters Tools' to tell me if my site is indexed. I don't need 'Google Analytics' to tell me about my site's stats. And I definitely have no reason to SPELL OUT my relationship between websites that I'm 'controlling the links to.'

                As you probably already know, Google is no advocate of link building. What possible advantage can I gain from saying "Hey, Google, I own this here website and I just linked to this here website using juicy anchor text." What possible advantage would by client derive from Google knowing that a certain network of websites was linking to their website? None that I can think of.

                I'm not in business with Google, nor will I ever be.
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  • Profile picture of the author jade69
    You can find a great guide on web hosting at Web hosting services, companies and reviews

    Or search on Google web hosting reviews...
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Woolard
    Thanks guys. I know everyone's trying to help.
    I forgot all about the WhoIs Privacy costs as well.

    I don't think testing a few sites would be a great sample size from statistical point of view.

    Google could theoretically use a bunch of factors we might not think of..For example, linking to a site from a "bad neighborhood" and the "same IP", they could penalize differently.

    I'm leaning towards dburks results, after all it is just one site.

    My site is getting ZERO love from google so far....8-10 articles, with no search traffic to date.

    Ill post the results after I get about 5000 words on the new site, and one contextual link from the home page.
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  • Profile picture of the author BreakingRetail
    I think that if both pages are high quality in google's eyes there is no reason to penalize you for it, it doesn't make sense to penalize you for having the same ip if both sites provide excellent content and user experience.
    I may be wrong but that's just the way i see things.
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