SEO-2012-Anchor text Replaced By Co-citation?!

by kroyal
28 replies
  • SEO
  • |
Prediction: Anchor Text is Dying...And Will Be Replaced by Co-citation - Whiteboard Friday | SEOmoz

And this is prediction of RAND, what do the other experts think about? as we know there lots of experts in SEO market
#cocitation #replaced #seo2012anchor #text
  • Profile picture of the author cisin
    Its indeed a very informative article.

    But actually doing that would be not that easy as it seems.
    Signature
    LiveHelpIndia- Support and Sales with Smile!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7377449].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SEOSteveO
      I think Co-citations will be huge but anchor text in the mean time still works wonders. To make co-citations work you need to get someone to talk about your brand and keyword together, and backlink from them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7378319].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    What a lot of spammers do these days is place their keyword next to the bare url anchor txt and they are pretty successful with that.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7378341].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    I was a little disappointed with this. There has long been evidence that Google uses the text around a link to judge what the linked to page is about. This is nothing new.
    Signature
    New Private Mastermind Group Discussing SEO, Local SEO, Google Ads, Facebook Ads, and more -
    Open for A Limited Time!

    Request to Join
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7378459].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      I was a little disappointed with this. There has long been evidence that Google uses the text around a link to judge what the linked to page is about. This is nothing new.
      Rand is talking about without the link not just text around a link. In fact if you think about it he is talking about Google learning from the web what companies and terms to include in their LSI metrics. SO google is both looking for relationships and learning about relationships as it crawls. Its an interesting point but its easy to think on a causal watch that he is talking about something thats already well known.

      To illustrate - its one thing to talk about me putting the terms "Mike Anthony" and "SEO" in close proximity together on my own site or surrounding a link to my site with those keywords but its another whole ballgame that I can't directly control when respected sites not even linking to me mention me in the same breath with SEO. One is easy to game the other is something that can't be easily done without publicity and earning it. It would have to include a serious public relations campaign to get writers across the web (and probably works off a certain set of respected sites) to make that association for me.

      Originally Posted by SEOSteveO View Post

      I think Co-citations will be huge but anchor text in the mean time still works wonders. To make co-citations work you need to get someone to talk about your brand and keyword together, and backlink from them.
      Bingo! except they don't have to backlink you in many cases. The key point some are missing is at the 1:12 mark - very little anchor text links for the term - the brand is getting a boost because when people talk about the keywords the brand name is included. This is not about Google seeing related words its more about Google LEARNING what brand words relate to the keyword.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379207].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Rand is talking about without the link not just text around a link. In fact if you think about it he is talking about Google learning from the web what companies and terms to include in their LSI metrics. SO google is both looking for relationships and learning about relationships as it crawls. Its an interesting point but its easy to think on a causal watch that he is talking about something thats already well known.

        To illustrate - its one thing to talk about me putting the terms "Mike Anthony" and "SEO" in close proximity together on my own site or surrounding a link to my site with those keywords but its another whole ballgame that I can't directly control when respected sites not even linking to me mention me in the same breath with SEO. One is easy to game the other is something that can't be easily done without publicity and earning it. It would have to include a serious public relations campaign to get writers across the web (and probably works off a certain set of respected sites) to make that association for me.
        No I got that. But again, I don't think this is anything new. I think this has been happening for awhile now.

        I reread my post though, and I wasn't clear in what I meant.

        There has long been evidence that Google uses the text around the mention of a page, whether there is a link or not, to judge what the page is about.

        That is what I meant to say. My morning hangover was clouding things a bit.
        Signature
        New Private Mastermind Group Discussing SEO, Local SEO, Google Ads, Facebook Ads, and more -
        Open for A Limited Time!

        Request to Join
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379238].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        To illustrate - its one thing to talk about me putting the terms "Mike Anthony" and "SEO" in close proximity together on my own site or surrounding a link to my site with those keywords but its another whole ballgame that I can't directly control when respected sites not even linking to me mention me in the same breath with SEO. One is easy to game the other is something that can't be easily done without publicity and earning it. It would have to include a serious public relations campaign to get writers across the web (and probably works off a certain set of respected sites) to make that association for me.
        Exactly, very hard to replicate such thing, it just means that the big boys get more love and that it only get's harder for us. KW research will also get a new dimension that way, things that look easy at first glance might not be that easy at all.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379255].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author dennis09
          Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

          Exactly, very hard to replicate such thing, it just means that the big boys get more love and that it only get's harder for us. KW research will also get a new dimension that way, things that look easy at first glance might not be that easy at all.

          Actually, this would be VERY easy to replicate. No more worrying about building hyperlinks or getting them approved. "Stealth" SEO. Just mention your keywords near your brand name while spamming high PR pages lol.

          And Yukon's right, the relevancy of the surrounding text has been important for quite some time now. Without looking at the video though, it seems as though someone is suggesting that the actual hyperlink aspect of it could be replaced. If that is correct, then refer back to my first paragraph.
          Signature
          There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7380775].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

            Actually, this would be VERY easy to replicate. No more worrying about building hyperlinks or getting them approved. "Stealth" SEO. Just mention your keywords near your brand name while spamming high PR pages lol.

            And Yukon's right, the relevancy of the surrounding text has been important for quite some time now. Without looking at the video though, it seems as though someone is suggesting that the actual hyperlink aspect of it could be replaced. If that is correct, then refer back to my first paragraph.
            Blog comment spam resurrected from the death
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7381538].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        To illustrate - its one thing to talk about me putting the terms "Mike Anthony" and "SEO" in close proximity together on my own site or surrounding a link to my site with those keywords but its another whole ballgame that I can't directly control when respected sites not even linking to me mention me in the same breath with SEO. One is easy to game the other is something that can't be easily done without publicity and earning it. It would have to include a serious public relations campaign to get writers across the web (and probably works off a certain set of respected sites) to make that association for me.

        Nothing new for anything that's worthy of being promoted on the net. It goes right back to relevancy of sites linking into your domain.

        I know you don't believe in overall relevant domains linking back to your own pages, but it makes a difference.

        If an external backlink page has relevant incoming links from the same domain (domain that the external backlink is on), it's stronger than a random domain/niche.
        Signature
        Hi
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379270].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Once again Moz is a joke. He isn't predicting the future, he's predicting the past/present.

    How many time have I preached relevancy & surrounding anchor-text with relevant keywords (too many times).

    Heck I've been ranking images like this for a long time with zero external links (in this order):
    1. relevant keyword-1
    2. image/page anchor-text
    3. relevant keyword-2

    This works the same way with images or pages. The only difference is the level of competition that your up against, If the target page doesn't have enough incoming authority from the same domain to back itself up then throw some external links at the page.

    Also the internal link wheel works well & is very obvious that it works. I get Google Sitelinks from my internal link wheels that show the pages included inside the link wheel as the actual "Google Sitelink Titles/Anchor-text" in the SERPs which is proof it works for pumping up a target page with only internal links. Google Sitelinks are a sign of authority.

    Moz, welcome to the future (pick up the pace).
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7378769].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Once again Moz is a joke. He isn't predicting the future, he's predicting the past/present.

      How many time have I preached relevancy & surrounding anchor-text with relevant keywords (too many times).

      Heck I've been ranking images like this for a long time with zero external links (in this order):
      :rolleyes:

      Two points.

      A) watch a video before commenting on it and especially before putting down a well respected SEO organization that has far more accomplishments then either of us have. Ranking some videos can't even be mentioned in the same breath with what Seomoz has done in the SEO space. Thats like a used car dealership saying they are better than Ford because they sold a few cars off the local lot. The video has nothing , NADA to do with surrounding your anchor text with relevant keyword text. this has to do with other people mentioning you in context on their own sites such to the point that your brand becomes related to that word. Its not something you can preach people to do on their own site. the video is like 4 minutes. Can't see how you could watch even for two minutes and not see that.

      B) One of the things that makes this board a bit amatueirish at times is when people step up. place themselves on the same level as people who have accomplished something in SEO and then put down major organizations like SEOmoz that have far more data and experience than the poster stepping up ever will.

      You are not alone on this Yuke . its pretty common here. Maybe a little bit of the young adolescent phase where its hip to bash any one who is established. I don't agree with everything Seomoz states but to any intelligent person its hard to argue against the accomplishments of SEOmoz. They get a lot of hate because they do preach white hat (and how could they not given their prominence with Google watching) but the idea that you are light years ahead of the company that created opensite explorer, Seomoz tools and metrics like Mozrank is just really funny Friday forum chest beating.

      Give some props when props are due. IF you watch the video then you will realize that Rand is talking about Brand marketing where across the web people relate your keywords to your brand and no I have been here three years and that is not something you are known for teaching. Again adding keyword text around a link or a video is not what the video covers.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379100].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Looks like I stepped on a followers toes (oops...).

        They get hate because they suck, it has nothing to do with white hat. The folks following that stuff are simply that, followers & can't be bothered to test anything on their own.

        I will give the guy credit for marketing, he is defiantly a pro for selling (seriously). He should hook up with Carleton Sheets & sell some real estate.







        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        :rolleyes:

        Two points.

        A) watch a video before commenting on it and especially before putting down a well respected SEO organization that has far more accomplishments then either of us have. Ranking some videos can't even be mentioned in the same breath with what Seomoz has done in the SEO space. Thats like a used car dealership saying they are better than Ford because they sold a few cars off the local lot. The video has nothing , NADA to do with surrounding your anchor text with relevant keyword text. this has to do with other people mentioning you in context on their own sites such to the point that your brand becomes related to that word. Its not something you can preach people to do on their own site. the video is like 4 minutes. Can't see how you could watch even for two minutes and not see that.

        B) One of the things that makes this board a bit amatueirish at times is when people step up. place themselves on the same level as people who have accomplished something in SEO and then put down major organizations like SEOmoz that have far more data and experience than the poster stepping up ever will.

        You are not alone on this Yuke . its pretty common here. Maybe a little bit of the young adolescent phase where its hip to bash any one who is established. I don't agree with everything Seomoz states but to any intelligent person its hard to argue against the accomplishments of SEOmoz. They get a lot of hate because they do preach white hat (and how could they not given their prominence with Google watching) but the idea that you are light years ahead of the company that created opensite explorer, Seomoz tools and metrics like Mozrank is just really funny Friday forum chest beating.

        Give some props when props are due. IF you watch the video then you will realize that Rand is talking about Brand marketing where across the web people relate your keywords to your brand and no I have been here three years and that is not something you are known for teaching. Again adding keyword text around a link or a video is not what the video covers.
        Signature
        Hi
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379240].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          They get hate because they suck, it has nothing to do with white hat. The folks following that stuff are simply that, followers & can't be bothered to test anything on their own.
          lol.... Dude your are a forum poster just like me. You can kid yourself all you want. Respect is earned not claimed. People respect SEOmoz cause they went out and built Opensite explorer and industry metrics. Its too silly claiming people respecting that are followers who don't test things. LOL thats exactly why they respect SEomoz. They see the data and its been tested by the "followers". Doesn't mean they are right about everything or even most things its just that a forum poster who nobody knows claiming to be ahead of SEomoz because they rank some videos is some pretty funny stuff.

          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Nothing new for anything that's worthy of being promoted on the net. It goes right back to relevancy of sites linking into your domain.
          You perhaps will forever be stuck on links because marketers usually are. The video is not about links its about related words across the entire internet regardless of whether they link to you. Also has nothing to do with the subject of entire sites. You have zero evidence that a well written article on mortgages on a site about parenting will not give you a great boost. There is ZERO evidence that Google breaks down sites based on the sites subject and not the page. CNN is not a site about mortgages but you would have to be batty not to want that link regardless if you were doing mortgages. Do I believe links from context matter? yes. so you are wrong again. I just don't believe as you do that the entire site has to be about the subject.

          No I got that. But again, I don't think this is anything new. I think this has been happening for awhile now.
          Well yeah but I don't think Rand is claiming to be making a brand new announcement. Still its not something talked about much especially not here at WF. I think if someone came on here a year ago (or even today) and said they are going to rank by just having authority sites mention them all over the internet without any links there would still be a good amount of laughter. Not saying it can be done today (I'd still chuckle a bit) but I wouldn't fall over laughing as much as I would a year ago.

          Google leaning more and more on Co -citation just makes sense. Its one of the few things that Marketers cannot game (provided Google designates sites where those associations are made and not just quantity of the references across the entire web). IMers can build all the Blasting power they want but outside of hacking they are not going to get respected writers (author profiles will go big with this) to mention them in context of their keywords.
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379272].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            lol.... Dude your are a forum poster just like me. You can kid yourself all you want. Respect is earned not claimed. People respect SEOmoz cause they went out and built Opensite explorer and industry metrics. Its too silly claiming people respecting that are followers who don't test things. LOL thats exactly why they respect SEomoz. They see the data and its been tested by the "followers". Doesn't mean they are right about everything or even most things its just that a forum poster who nobody knows claiming to be ahead of SEomoz because they rank some videos is some pretty funny stuff.

            Lol, you quoted me with some other guys forum name (WTH?).

            People follow cults all the time, they must be smart, does that sound about right?
            Signature
            Hi
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379279].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              People follow cults all the time, they must be smart, does that sound about right?

              No but the kinds of off analogies you make sound about right for a failing argument

              The whole point of cults is that people do not follow raw data but emotion. You could not have come up with a more self defeating analogy to your claims. SEOmoz is nowhere near that. People respect them because they are most known FOR their data. Mozrank, Opensite explorer etc. Googling does wonders. Try it some time

              Originally Posted by yukon View Post

              Lol, you quoted me with some other guys forum name (WTH?).
              Fixed. Apologies to Steve. I am sure he wouldn't want to be associated with that quote
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379365].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author yukon
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                No but the kinds of off analogies you make sound about right for a failing argument

                The whole point of cults is that people do not follow raw data but emotion. You could not have come up with a more self defeating analogy to your claims. SEOmoz is nowhere near that. People respect them because they are most known FOR their data. Mozrank, Opensite explorer etc. Googling does wonders. Try it some time



                Fixed. Apologies to Steve. I am sure he wouldn't want to be associated with that quote

                Really respect? Do you even know what it is your following?

                You've based respect on some site that can spider the web, big deal, that means nothing.
                Signature
                Hi
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7380311].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                  You've based respect on some site that can spider the web, big deal, that means nothing.
                  Too silly to even respond much to. Even if that were all they had ever done it sure beats allegedly ranking some arbitrary videos and talking big on a forum as being your only accomplishments. I post here too but I am not trying to put down an organization that has done good work (way beyond just running a crawler as you just ignorantly claimed) and is widely respected in the SEO community. You are being childish. Don't know your age so maybe you can't help it.

                  Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

                  Actually, this would be VERY easy to replicate. No more worrying about building hyperlinks or getting them approved. "Stealth" SEO. Just mention your keywords near your brand name while spamming high PR pages lol.
                  You are assuming that it would be based on quantity or non contextual articles which would be silly or them. they know it could be spammed. It is more likely to use a set of sites they trust. Good luck at mentioning your keywords and your site in an article on CNN

                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                  Uhh, have to say that SEOmoz is about the worse back link checking tool out there. I see many cases where Opensiteexplorer shows like 20 links and then I check Ahrefs and they show like 800 links.
                  Use SEOspyglass myself and prefer PR over mozrank because they do miss alot of links but SEomoz is not trying to cater to everyone checking backlinks. They have a more medium . bigger business audience. I have found in my better domain prospects that if SEOmoz doesn't have any links reported its usually not the best of buys. I suspect for their target market it serves them well. Beyond that People tend to forget their main product is their SEO analysis tools which go beyond open site explorer and are pretty good.

                  Its just both bonehead stupid and arrogant to claim they have done nothing in the SEO community worthy of any respect. One of the stupidest lines or arguments I have seen here in years. If they had done nothing anyone else but a total newb would look at their rankings for SEO terms and say thats a good accomplishment.

                  I dare anyone here to go rank number three for SEO.

                  The tools they have developed and what they have done with a huge dataset in establishing metrics beyond what Google provides speaks for itself. I don;t agree with everything they say (And frankly believe some of the things they say they say just for Google. you can even see Fishkin smirk sometimes like wink wink) but a forum poster saying they are beyond Seomoz :rolleyes: just highlights how bad this forum gets sometimes and how much people are just fronting.
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7382197].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author nik0
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Use SEOspyglass myself and prefer PR over mozrank because they do miss alot of links but SEomoz is not trying to cater to everyone checking backlinks. They have a more medium . bigger business audience. I have found in my better domain prospects that if SEOmoz doesn't have any links reported its usually not the best of buys. I suspect for their target market it serves them well. Beyond that People tend to forget their main product is their SEO analysis tools which go beyond open site explorer and are pretty good.

                    The tools they have developed and what they have done with a huge dataset in establishing metrics beyond what Google provides speaks for itself. I don;t agree with everything they say (And frankly believe some of the things they say they say just for Google. you can even see Fishkin smirk sometimes like wink wink) but a forum poster saying they are beyond Seomoz :rolleyes: just highlights how bad this forum gets sometimes and how much people are just fronting.
                    The Keyword competition tool is pretty good, although you have to know how to use it or a dead easy keyword can come out as 65% competition as Google has nothing else to show then authority sites so hope they work on that in the future, it's easy, just give a bit less weight to the DA as that's what causing it when a list of 10 sites with 99-100% DA are showing up at page 1 (while most pages are in fact PA0-10, bit silly they never fixed that) but once you know that you can easily anticipate on it.

                    I also take their articles with a large grain of salt but they do have a good sample and nice data analysis posts now and then. And now they came up with this citation thing, which is pretty useful info and explains why some sites sometimes rank while previously thinking what the hell is that site doing there.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7382529].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author nik0
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                No but the kinds of off analogies you make sound about right for a failing argument

                The whole point of cults is that people do not follow raw data but emotion. You could not have come up with a more self defeating analogy to your claims. SEOmoz is nowhere near that. People respect them because they are most known FOR their data. Mozrank, Opensite explorer etc. Googling does wonders. Try it some time



                Fixed. Apologies to Steve. I am sure he wouldn't want to be associated with that quote
                Uhh, have to say that SEOmoz is about the worse back link checking tool out there. I see many cases where Opensiteexplorer shows like 20 links and then I check Ahrefs and they show like 800 links.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7381542].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
                  Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

                  Uhh, have to say that SEOmoz is about the worse back link checking tool out there. I see many cases where Opensiteexplorer shows like 20 links and then I check Ahrefs and they show like 800 links.
                  Yes, AHREFS is the most powerful one in these days. Any clue about Majestic SEO?
                  Signature

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7381568].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ProSence
    I agree that Google would implement Co-citations but anchor text would exist forever, as without anchor text web page is not too helpful.
    Signature

    three great FREE tools - www.sitebeak.com, www.GAtective.com and www.impersonal.me

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7378927].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author retsek
    Some peeps miss the point of the video. But I do think it's a stretch to say this will replace anchor text.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7379439].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    I hadn't heard of this before I saw this on SEOMOZ about a week ago.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7380605].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author fmac
    Interesting. I would add my keyword next to my URL on yahoo answers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7380781].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author purdue512
    There is no doubt that Anchor Text is still in the algo - and will remain there for quite some time..

    Sure - these other factors are rising in importance for SEO, but the fundamentals are still there.
    Signature

    For outstanding SEO Reseller programs,

    with a US-based Account Manager and Industry-Leading Technology,

    see HubShout.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7455916].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alonso1983
    I guess anchor text is not replaced with co-citation. All the updates are about removing spam from Google search
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7458019].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RyanLB
    I think he makes a solid point, but moreso about changes to the algo, and additions that they will make to it. Of course Google wants to test for relevancy in every way they can. Anchor text on its own is a poor metric to regard so highly when they rank the websites, as the last few years showed a lot of us. However, it still does serve its purpose. I don't see it being completely phased out for a long time because there are practical uses for relevant anchor text, not just for gaming the search algo.
    Signature

    I'm a Freelance Copywriter that helps Agencies, Startups and Businesses Educate Their Audience and Grow Sales
    Skype Me: r.boze
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7458210].message }}

Trending Topics