Specific C-class/ seperate IP address/ seperare host strategy for networks that WORK?!?!

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Hi All,

I have been reading as many posts on warrior as I can about the topic in the title.

Essentially I have FIVE dog niche sites I want to point to two DOG money sites.

Currently the money sites are on seperate IP's on the same Australian Host.

The first level sites are all on a shared Hostgator account.

There seems to be a lot of conjecture about the max number of sites to host on one account, particulary if each of those sites point to one or two money sites.

I get that even having separate IPs with one Host does not guarantee that their IP numbers are far enough away from each other not to look suspicious.

Does anyone have a reasoned view or a recent quote from matt cutts or seomoz etc, that definitively states what the issue is and how to resolve it.

Yes I could host each of the five sites separately, and on separate hosts, in separate countries for a relatively small fortune (for a dog walker when I figure Australian domain costs into it etc) in money and admin time.

Is there a quick workable solution such as seohost (which has up to ten diff IPs on the one account), or will the C class issue wreck this network option?

would having three on a share network, and two on another host work? etc etc?

What are the ACTUAL tactics that you or your "friends" would use to solve this small network issue? THANKS.

PS WHAT ACTUAL HOSTS WOULD YOU SELECT AND WHAT PLANS??
#address or #cclass or #host #networks #seperare #seperate #specific #strategy #work
  • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
    The two main reasons why this is not a definitive answer are that either seo is an art that no one can tame, or that this question is beyond the scope of the players here (which I doubt)? Or .. is it just a really big secret???

    While I am building a very small support network, it is of no value if G de-rates any of the PR from it. I get that hosting all on one Shared IP is probably not the best method out there, but if i get get some justification as to how far I need to spread these five sites it would be of GREAT help.

    Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Grazina
      Aseohosting.com SEO services can be helpful for you.
      Check out their plans and choose the best one for your needs.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Go to webhostingtalk.com and look for their shared hosting offers. You can get hosting for under five dollars each and sometimes even under $3. You are wrong about it costing you a small fortune.



        P.S. Good luck non Matt Cutts or SEOmoz telling you about putting sites on seperate IPs in order to rank.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
          So if it is not safe to have all sites on one IP.

          You guys feel that it is ok to have five or ten with one host, as long as they are on different C blocks?

          Does anyone know of any host that sells such a single plan?

          I also have all sites using thesis for wordpress, and I have read that even same templates give a 'wrong signal' Makes you wonder how they add these signals together to decide if they will let PR be passed on ..

          .. also wondering how long after seperating the sites off the same IP that G will allow the PR to be passed on, or if they will be in the 'bad books' forever??

          Any more views???
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        • Profile picture of the author gotlinks
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Go to webhostingtalk.com and look for their shared hosting offers. You can get hosting for under five dollars each and sometimes even under $3. You are wrong about it costing you a small fortune.



          P.S. Good luck non Matt Cutts or SEOmoz telling you about putting sites on seperate IPs in order to rank.
          Thanks Mike.

          Wish there was an easier way to keep track as I have over 100 websites :/ thats a lot of seperate hosting plans.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by gotlinks View Post

            Thanks Mike.

            Wish there was an easier way to keep track as I have over 100 websites :/ thats a lot of seperate hosting plans.
            Excel is perfect.

            I have one big workbook created. Each hosting plan gets its own sheet. On each sheet I list the hosting information (login, nameservers, etc), domains hosted, their PR, Wordpress login if there is any, and the niche the domains are in.

            You could organize it any way you want though.

            I also do a separate spreadsheet for billing information (date purchased, amount paid, next payment). When you are buying hosting plans for 1-3 years at a time and you have a lot of them, those automated payments can sneak up on you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Grant
            Originally Posted by gotlinks View Post

            Thanks Mike.

            Wish there was an easier way to keep track as I have over 100 websites :/ thats a lot of seperate hosting plans.
            Haven't used it, but I believe wpmanage can do what you're looking for.
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            • Profile picture of the author gotlinks
              Originally Posted by Mike Grant View Post

              Haven't used it, but I believe wpmanage can do what you're looking for.
              Yeah I use that. But it doesnt help with uploading site files from the beginning. just managing afterwords which isnt that difficult.
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        • Profile picture of the author alkirke1
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Go to webhostingtalk.com and look for their shared hosting offers. You can get hosting for under five dollars each and sometimes even under $3. You are wrong about it costing you a small fortune.



          P.S. Good luck non Matt Cutts or SEOmoz telling you about putting sites on seperate IPs in order to rank.
          Hi Mike
          always appreciate your input.
          Another question please in your experience is there a minimum amount of sites that link to each other you can get away with.

          I mean surely if you are in a small enough niche and having 2-3 sites related to the topic.
          • all linked in some way
          • possibly hosted on one account
          • all with solid content and unique concepts
          • visually appealing designs
          wouldn't google over look this as I am sure larger brand companies
          have multiple sites that link to each other.Possibly on same IP's or even not even worrying about hiding footprints.


          I ask this question with honest value of your opinion and an intermediate understanding in the subject matter.


          Thanks
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by alkirke1 View Post

            wouldn't google over look this as I am sure larger brand companies
            have multiple sites that link to each other.Possibly on same IP's or even not even worrying about hiding footprints.
            Its done CONSTANTLY by companies that have multiple sister companies. Large insurance companies , job boards (with multiple geographic and career niches. Entertainment outlets and on and on. Thats why I smirk when some Pure Whitehat Google is my moral compass forum poster claims how evil SEO networks are. They haven't done their homework. Google is quite fine with some of the biggest companies using followed links to their other sites

            If you are only talking about three or four sites then maybe but no one in SEO I know really believes Google treats sites equally. Saying big companies do this or that so its allowed and you are okay can lead you into some serious problems. Two years back JC Penney got caught using all kinds of link spam and black hat techniques.

            They got a three month penalty, Do the same and your site will get life in prison instant rejection on appeal.

            No time off for good behavour and absolutely no conjugal visits
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
    Does anyone have a view about seohost.com shared hosting plans (they say seperate c blocks) is called shared because you share the IP with other clients - up to five.

    It will still be all with one host, but better than sharing five sites on one IP???
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Bruce99 View Post

      Does anyone have a view about seohost.com shared hosting plans (they say seperate c blocks) is called shared because you share the IP with other clients - up to five.

      It will still be all with one host, but better than sharing five sites on one IP???
      Just about all SEO hosting packages are shared hosting packages.

      The reason that I stay away from SEO hosts is that about the only reason to use an SEO host is to put a private network up. Google knows this too. That makes any SEO host a potential target.

      I have only had 2 sites in my entire network deindexed in the past 18 months by Google. They were entirely different sites. One was on Wordpress. One was HTML. No common articles, outbound links, plugins, etc. between them. The only thing they shared in common was that both were with the same SEO host. Both were deindexed on the same day. When I went through other sites on the same IPs, about 75% of the sites were obviously parts of networks and all were deindexed as well.

      Admittedly, they were not some of my best work. They were two sites I was using just for running some tests, so I did not put a lot of effort into creating them.

      So yeah, there is certainly convenience working with an SEO host, but that convenience means little if domains get deindexed. If you are going to use an SEO host, you better really be building good sites that leave no trace of being part of a network. Just to be safe though, I would avoid them. Spending a few extra bucks a month is worth it.
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    So how many sites should you have on a single hosting account? 1 or multiple as long as they're not pointing to the same money sites?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by elperuanito View Post

      So how many sites should you have on a single hosting account? 1 or multiple as long as they're not pointing to the same money sites?
      That is up to you. I have as many as 4-5 in some cases, but there is absolutely nothing related between them.
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  • Profile picture of the author bb785
    Having separate IPs is not going to help you much if you are using the same anchor text and linking to the same money site multiple times on your networked site. Unnatural anchor text is much easier for Google to detect than class C blocks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
      Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

      Just get yourself a couple small shared hosting plans. Check in the offers section, there are a few cheap ones there. The class of the IP has nothing to do with anything, you're just paying a higher premium for a normal IP.

      Class C = some companies charge $7+ per IP, which if you're willing to waste your money on IP's because someone tells you they're better than other IP's, you should do a little more research. Selling these IP's for this price is simply nothing more than a "stupid" tax because there's no difference from a C class to an A class or B class in terms of hosting or SEO.
      Thanks for the conversations and advice guys.

      From other forums and a little research this is where I am at with this:

      Out of the four blocks of numbers that make up the IP address, the C Block is the one that smaller Hosts have in common with all their clients. So having the same C block will make it obvious you are with one host and maybe going heap on a network deal and need further automatic G investigation.

      The seo hosting pack i saw by seohost has five domains for $10 per month.

      My concern is that if another Four people are on your IP, and they are doing their network and get banned or have dodgy sites, then yes you will automatically get banned ( I dont think they just ban some sites on one IP?)

      My sites all have original content, but they each are on thesis and they each point to two of my money sites. Since I dont have other sites to point to, and I dont need to needlessly dilute the PR from these sites, I am working out how to disguise that is what I am doing.

      Seohost dedicated IP plan for five sites is $20 a month, effectively double the shared IP. So if I can get anywhere else that has less than $4 per month for each IP hosting, and I not to go shared IP, then it makes sense not to go with a firm that is known for seo hosting and might encourage more scrutiny from G
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  • Profile picture of the author bradudan
    I have had 3 wbsites deindexed but it was my mistake .. I have 77 different websites in my private network..

    My advice for you in this small 5 sites pn is to take website hosting ( no seo hosting) on different servrs and even located in different countries.

    My recommandations are : hostgator, site5, justhost, blue host.... etc

    You can find many offers. They will give you different C-class ip's cause they are built on different servers on different countries .

    So try to do it simple , it is a small Pn and you should have no problem....
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    • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
      Just to be clear on C class... this is a quote from another forum:

      "An IP consist of 4 parts AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD - the first part is called A-class, the second part B-class and the third part C-class. So any IP under the last part will be in the same C-class. So for example:

      123.123.123.1 and 123.123.123.2 are in the same C-class but
      123.123.123.1 and 123.123.124.1 is in two different C-classes

      Many smaller hosts only mange one single or very few C-classes and therefore makes it difficult to get multiple IPs in different C-classes if you host all your sites the same place. Larger hosts have many C-classes (I believe some even have almost full B-classes but unless you specifically request your various sites to be on different C-class IPs you still could end up on the same."

      BRUCE - isnt the theory that if all of your sites are say on 123.123.123.XXX even though the XXX varies .... If they are a network I( ie point to the same money sites) ... then Google will easily assume they are a network through the C class give away, and de index?

      If however I am with a host that has my sites on different C classes (because A class is country dependent etc) then it isnt as obvious to G. Isn't that why you want to spread your hosting out (to guarantee (almost) that you are on different C classes), and maybe even B classes? And therefore not as obvious?

      DO you also use fake/ not the same, registration details for each hosting plan so that Google cant tell - or is that too hard or not required?

      So C class is then kind of important, and not just a stupid tax? Or am I being Stupid or paranoid, or just not the cleverest grey hatter in the room?
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
    Hi Kingfish85 sorry you took exception to my post on another thread, I just didn't feel that I was getting ALL the questions SPECIFICALLY sorted on this thread, and hosting decisions are kind of vital and cost money etc, so I want to get it right, No point making sites manually just to get them de indexed hey?

    It looks like from actual examples IM's have given here that I indeed better " Get yourself a few different cheap hosting accounts and call it a day."

    Re class C " if I tell you a class C Ip is better than a normal class a or b" as per my reply above, I don't get that they are better. It's just that it's a starting point to have different class C IP's if you can. Getting different class A and B's is probably overkill (ie hosting overseas). Different C class Just removes one more signal that G is going to use in their auto tracking list of people gaming them.

    And yes " put good, relevant, quality content on your sites and you'll be fine." that is what I am doing. I just didn't want to pay more than I needed to for hosting, each year, when I am only selling product in Australia and I don't need to over capitalise.

    If I was brilliant at affiliate sites, and had everything automated from link building to article creation then I would just throw money at it, knowing it would come back from my brilliant sites. These questions are about a small player trying to get some return and make a living in the southern hemisphere on sites that are his passion.

    Thanks bradudan I will look into site5, justhost, blue host.. (and keep just one site on hostgator. Cant wait for the fun of site migration.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kingfish85
    completely useless information.

    1) SEO hosting is a deliberate waste of the IPv4 Space
    2) Hosting websites on different IP Ranges DOES NOT impact search engine rankings, it is a myth.
    3) Any host or "SEO Expert" who tells you that it does make a difference are simply lying to you.
    4) SEO Hosting is pretty much a scam
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

      Please someone, PROVE that a class C block is better than an A or B block.
      It has nothing to do with it being better. I do not think anyone here would argue that. Multiple C-class IPs are not going to magically make anyone rank better.

      If you have a bunch of sites together in a network that you are using for the sole purpose of gaming the search results, the reason for putting them on different C-class IPs is to make it less likely that a search engine realizes they are all part of the same network and deindexes them all.

      I agree 100% about there being nothing else special about them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        It has nothing to do with it being better. I do not think anyone here would argue that. Multiple C-class IPs are not going to magically make anyone rank better.

        If you have a bunch of sites together in a network that you are using for the sole purpose of gaming the search results, the reason for putting them on different C-class IPs is to make it less likely that a search engine realizes they are all part of the same network and deindexes them all.

        I agree 100% about there being nothing else special about them.
        exactly what i was saying/ thinking - no disrespect to anyone!

        And info here has helped me understand that perhaps seohosting isnt for me and I have to bight the bullet and have all different hosts, particularly if I want to have some point at the same money sites. I guess G is always going to refine what it bans and its worthwhile planning ahead.

        Shame that it can index even if you have all original content and it is valuable in a searchers eyes.

        I also get that its very worth knowing more about ip's so thank you king for the link!
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    • Profile picture of the author limestone614
      Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

      completely useless information.
      2) Hosting websites on different IP Ranges DOES NOT impact search engine rankings, it is a myth.
      Here is a rare commercial example as proof of the above statement.

      Google UK, "Eden Hotel Collection".com

      Central site, 7 sub sites, different URL's, each receives local traffic related to its hotel URL.

      Lots of shared content between all 8 sites in the news section.

      All 8 sites are on the same server, using the same IP.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by limestone614 View Post

        Here is a rare commercial example as proof of the above statement.

        Google UK, "Eden Hotel Collection".com

        Central site, 7 sub sites, different URL's, each receives local traffic related to its hotel URL.

        Lots of shared content between all 8 sites in the news section.

        All 8 sites are on the same server, using the same IP.
        There are plenty examples of that. its not rare at all. In an earlier post I listed a variety of niches I see that in all the time. Do I think that say a client running a pet shop can do that? rank number one for the term by links form his own site and be OK if there is a report by a competitor? Do I think he has nothing to worry about? No can't say that. I can't say that that hotel might not find a ranking issue in a serp if a competitor says - "they are ranking because of their own linking. either"

        So why would anyone utilize their own sister sites and put them on the same IP? Plus I get the distinct impression some people think there is an algo reason why people advocate different server appearance but thats false. Its for manual situations
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        • Profile picture of the author connorbringas
          No one will be able to tell you for sure. However, my opinion and experience tells me that having multiple websites with the same/similar IP isnt a good idea if you are going for the same kws. However, if you are blogging/pointing some websites to the "money sites" in your case, I think it should be fine and you wont be penalized. In an example, I have multiple domains with thousands of pages pointing to one site and havent seen a penalty/problem with it-they are similar IP's as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author danparks
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Plus I get the distinct impression some people think there is an algo reason why people advocate different server appearance but thats false. Its for manual situations
          Mike I agree with you on this that multiple IPs are best for contributing to surviving a manual review. But I do wonder if Google doesn't take IP into account in some way algorithmically. It's a simple thing for them to note. And while there are perfectly valid reasons for a site getting many backlinks from multiple sites on the same IP (such as a big business that has many "sister" sites in the same field that are all related, so the sites naturally link to one another and are naturally under the control of one IT person or staff using the same server), in the vast majority of cases one site getting many backlinks from many sites that all reside on the same IP certainly seems like cause to raise a red flag (why would many unrelated sites reference one site, and all those unrelated sites happen to be on the same server). Because it's so simple to track, and because it can be a sign of SEO manipulation, don't you think that if not now, then maybe in the future, Google might factor "too many links from the same IP" into their algorithms? I go with multiple IPs regardless of whether or not it matters regarding SERPS, so in the end I guess it doesn't really matter. But I'm always trying to "think like Google might think" so I do wonder if it might not be best to spread out IPs for SERP reasons (for now or to be set up nicely in the future).
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  • Profile picture of the author micksss
    There are plenty of web hosts under $4/month that are reliable that you can use for your many sites. Just do your research by reading customer reviews and checking WHT.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
    Hi Mick ...

    the aussie dollar is doing OK, but if the secondary sites dont boost the money sites enough soon enough then the 5 to 10 x (hosting + aus domain) prices can get execisive. This is a hard niche I am trying to crack, not forward selling an affiliate ..

    But yes I get what you mean and a little research plus the recomm even in this tread for host will go a long way. THANK YOU ALL
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  • Profile picture of the author sham2
    Thanks for sharing nice information. I like these discissions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
    Hello again,

    I went to register with bluehost and noticed that in the final steps that it says:

    "A Dedicated IP address ensures one IP address is tied to your account, and only your account. A unique IP address allows additional features, including the ability to open non-standard ports, add SSL Certificates and is believed to improve search engine rankings."

    This costs an extra $30 a year.

    Does this mean that most hosting companies provide a shared IP, and if so, how is this different from seohosting companies that also provide a shared IP.

    Are we talking about the quality of clients (and therefore a higher likelihood of your site getting banned for being on the same seo as a blackhatter) or is there a technical difference?

    As none of the major host companies mention how many people are on one IP, i dont get how it is any different and why i should stay away from an seo host kind of company???
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce99
        Hi Kingfisher,

        Thank you for the answer, and yes I have learned a lot, but I still would like confirmation that most if not all standard hosting packages are on shared IP, and so are technically exactly the same as seohosting - just more expensive?!? IS THIS TRUE?

        Surely this would mean that I am just a likely to get another persons bad domain on my IP with bluehost or hostgator or any other of the majors, as I would on seohost.com ???

        Am I just paying for reputation of the majors, and potential better uptime, rather than getting a dedicated IP. IF SO, ARE THERE ANY CHEAP DEDICATED HOSTS OUT THERE?

        And why are their comments in this thread about seohosting being bad, when it is basically the same???
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        • Profile picture of the author bb785
          Originally Posted by Bruce99 View Post

          Hi Kingfisher,

          Thank you for the answer, and yes I have learned a lot, but I still would like confirmation that most if not all standard hosting packages are on shared IP, and so are technically exactly the same as seohosting - just more expensive?!? IS THIS TRUE?

          Surely this would mean that I am just a likely to get another persons bad domain on my IP with bluehost or hostgator or any other of the majors, as I would on seohost.com ???

          Am I just paying for reputation of the majors, and potential better uptime, rather than getting a dedicated IP. IF SO, ARE THERE ANY CHEAP DEDICATED HOSTS OUT THERE?

          And why are their comments in this thread about seohosting being bad, when it is basically the same???
          You always have some risk with shared hosting but it certainly is not as bad as what many on this thread have made it out to be. I have not seen solid evidence of Google penalizing a site just because another bad site shared the IP. That does not mean it doesn't happen, just means I have not seen it first hand or in a case study by someone I trust.

          Personally, I would stay away from the "SEO" shared plans because the uptime is generally lousy as is the service. You get what you pay for. Bluehost, Hostgator, and Dreamhost all offer shared plans as well as unique IPs and VPS plans. Unless you have a need for a unique IP, such as a running https, then stick with a shared plan on a reputable host. Your life will be much easier.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Bruce99 View Post

          Hi Kingfisher,

          Thank you for the answer, and yes I have learned a lot, but I still would like confirmation that most if not all standard hosting packages are on shared IP, and so are technically exactly the same as seohosting - just more expensive?!? IS THIS TRUE?
          No it isn't. although I recommend shared host over SEO hosting Kingfish is just creating strawmen arguments to bash competitors to suit his sig. I have been in networks for years and i have NEVER EVER seen nor heard any SEO host or anyone else claim their IPs are better for SEO that any one elses. What they do say is that having Class C and up unique IPs is better than not having them because in networks it will indicate to anyone who looks that all the sites are on the same server and the same source of the links is exposed.

          Now to your question the difference is that if you order two packages on a regular shared host (unless you specify different locations on the order forms) you have a good chance both will end up on the same IP. A SEO host will make sure they are separate. Now with shared providers of different companies you will get the same uniqueness. In fact if you put enough time between orders on a fairly known host then you stand to get separate class c and up IPs as IPs are requested and provisioned as needed

          Surely this would mean that I am just a likely to get another persons bad domain on my IP with bluehost or hostgator or any other of the majors, as I would on seohost.com ???
          getting one bad domain isn't really the issue. If Google deindexed sites for being on shared servers they would hit too many sites that were not doing anything Google considers wrong. Everyone would have to be on dedicated. However if most of the sites on the IP look like crappy SEO networks then yeah you will be toast too so better to have your sites on servers.companies not just catering to SEO hosting.

          Am I just paying for reputation of the majors, and potential better uptime, rather than getting a dedicated IP. IF SO, ARE THERE ANY CHEAP DEDICATED HOSTS OUT THERE?
          Overkill and of course they are not going to be as cheap when only one customer is using the entire box.

          And why are their comments in this thread about seohosting being bad, when it is basically the same???
          I would not say bad as in evil or ripoff as kingfish tries to imply (which is just more sales garbage since MANY MANY SEO hosts charge the same price that a shared package costs. Is a $7 a month host over taxing? Total malarkey.)
          but for the reason I indicated above they are to be avoided,
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

      No, they don't. Look at the prices carefully.
      Oh please. I've been teaching on this subject for over a year here. I know exactly what the prices are.


      It's "per" IP and the typical seo plan contains 5+ IP's.
      of course its per IP. How many Class C IPs does a normal host provide on a $5-$7 package? not five Class C IPs. Who are you trying to fool? Most hosts you would have to show very good reason to get even a second Class C IP at time orf purchase. You yourself indicated IPs might be reclaimed because of the problem of supplying "unnecessary" ones.

      So, in conclusion, I can sell you the exact same IP's for 300% less per IP. How is that not a rip off? EVERY other "non-seo host" does the same.
      I can't believe you are that obtuse so I can only gather that you are trying to sell up your services. Every non-seo host offers 5 CLASS C IPs with their package? You know full well we are not talking about regular additional IPs so its back to playing games again.


      frankly you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. In one post you say its wasteful to provide those addresses and then you claim all non SEO hosts provide the same deliberately trying to equate apples with oranges.

      P.S. Not interested in the strawman argument that anyone is claiming "class C block is better than an A or B block." This is not the first thread you have been corrected on that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

          A c class IP IS a regular IP. There's no difference. Maybe you need a general networking lesson on IP addressing.
          .
          No you do and on SEO hosting. You strike me like a student taking their first class who still doesn't know practices in the real world but thinks they have it down in the real world because they read the first chapter of the textbook.

          Obviously a Class C Ip is an IP - duh moment noted - however regular there refers to the real world - as in what you usually or REGULARLY get with a NORMAL/REGULAR shared account. Get the meaning of the world regular there yet?

          So no matter what you claim the "regular" additional IPs you get on a regular shared account are NOT" class C and due to the way that REGULAR hosts receive IPs and REGULARLY set then up not getting unique class C IPs or higher would be a good indicator in many if not most scenarios that the links were all coming from the same source.

          This has nothing to do with the strawman drivel you have been pushing that any SEO expert or host is claiming the class of the IP gives you a boost in the serps. It has to do with not wanting to telegraph that all the links are likely to be with the same provider or even server so as to look unnatural. Want to disagree then do so intelligently by understanding the issue not make up some strawman argument in your head.

          Don't believe in SEO networks? fine but next time consult the thread title.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

              Right, ok. You strike me as the typical "seo expert" that thinks they know everything in the seo world. Please explain to me what bearing difference a classed IP has? your explanation just below this completely contradicts what you're arguing about.
              :rolleyes: Its common for people who can't grasp a point to claim a contradiction because in their minds the misunderstanding IS a contradiction. Thats the whole point of learning. one plus one ending up as three will be a contradiction too when it comes to a man and a woman - until you learn reproduction.

              As I mentioned earlier, most of the blocks being handed out are class c. Please tell me what the difference is between a class C block that I purchase and hand to customers for shared/reseller hosting and a class c block being sold by "seo hosting".

              Sheesh ....good night man.. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp ( at this point I think you are just trying to save face). As people here have already expressed a lot of them would prefer to have ONE ACCOUNT and the IPs HAVE EVERYTHING to do with that.

              A SEO host gives out MULTIPLE different Class C IPS per single account. The average host gives out one unique one per package. How anyone reading through this thread could not see such an obvious difference gives me no hope it will finally sink in by me saying it again



              I guess you're the expert in networking & ip addressing right?
              Nope but its clear to see neither are you especially when talking about SEO networks.

              Buy multiple hosting accounts in different locations.
              Sure my suggestion for other reasons not because SEO Hosts are ripping people off or because there is no point to having networks on separate Class C IPs. Plenty of hosts charge more than $7 for a single site account and you could easily Spend the same if not more.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

              Right, ok. You strike me as the typical "seo expert" that thinks they know everything in the seo world.
              King get in line. You are not the first person to see thank and post count andget intimidated (or see Quan of SEO, not realize it comes from a joke in a old thread and think it means expert because they never educated themselves by watching one of the best movies ever Jerry MacGuire) See this is why I responded to your accusations levelled against your competitors to elevate your own self proclaimed expertise. You don't have a problem holding out yourself as an expert in your niche but if you get the sense that anyone sees someone else as an expert in their area you get all hurt and if we dare to question something you try and smear us.

              Of course there are SEO experts (I nowhere claim to be one). The only people whining about "SEO experts" incessantly like you are those whose only problem with it is that they think that they know more than any SEo expert could. Since they know it all already then SEO experts don't exist so its all born out of arrogance in its own rite.

              Don't know what it is about the hosting business but you are the second host running around in threads deriding expertise in other peoples niches while promoting expertise in your own. I would say it was maybe because being a host was something only experts could do but no profession has more companies being run by kids coming home at three O'clock after school so that can't be it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

                  As far as promoting my own company, sure, I advertise here on Warrior Forum - however, since we're not providing unlimited everything under the sun web hosting, most users here tend to flock to the cheapest junk they can find. Again, it is what it is, I have no problem with that. Our prices are also not on par with that the majority of WF users are looking for when compared to the resources we offer.

                  As far as being run by a kid, I have been in the IT & hosting industry since 2002 professionally. I can tell you this, there's only a handful of other web hosts here on this forum that actually know what they're talking about, and yes, I'll be conceded and say I'm one of them. (technical wise)

                  On the other hand, search through my threads, and you'll see where I have recommended other hosting companies based on someones needs.
                  We thank our sponsor for their ad support. Now back to our program in progress

                  I'm not arguing the fact that having different IP addresses affects SEO, and I never have. I am arguing the fact that the class of the IP has nothing to do with it and people like the OP end up getting sucked in to some ridiculous marketing gimmick.
                  Dude like I said you will never get it. NO ONE has said that it is the class of the IP that has any magic. You keep trying to light that straw. Its the fact that Hosting companies rarely give out multiple separate unique Class C Ips and higher to a single account or even on the same server. SEO hosting was invented to give people in a single account a portfolio of sites that do not look as obviously grouped together under one account or server as a shared account with multiple domains. End of story.

                  You can whine complain , dodge and makeup any other strawhat you wish to make. Its not a matter of how you see it its a matter of what the facts are and you don't get to invent them
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  • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
    What I find amusing is that people are still using the nonsense terms like "C class" or "class C" -- or A, B, C, D, etc. There's no such thing as a "class", much less there being a "C" or any other letter. These are invented definitions by self-proclaimed "marketing gurus" out to sell snake oil. Hosts giggle at these asinine terms, excluding the "SEO hosts" that bilk suckers for their money.

    There's no positive valuation given from IP addresses.

    At very most, sites can be downgraded or entirely deindexed if found to be on "bad neighborhoods" (network ranges comprised heavily of spam, shill, thin affiliate crap sites, etc), which is what most "SEO hosts" are. There's no way to hide the ASN or SWIP'd range from Google.

    Those who still think IP is the only telltale sign of relationship are also indulging in wishful thinking. The code in the site is a dead giveaway (AdSense IDs, for example), as is domain whois. And those are just two of the more common and obvious ones. Even "article spinning" (plagiarism, mostly) is being caught by improved AI that can detect flimsy transposition, borrowed phrases, and synonyms.

    The idea that you can trick Google or Bing with something like an IP address is therefore silly.

    Spend time and funds on creating quality sites people find useful, and would like to visit, and therefore share with others on their own blogs, sites, social media, etc. Or even something picked up by media outlets, colleges, and other authoritative sources.

    All of this blog commenting (spam), forum posting (spam), IP finagling, etc -- all ridiculous in 2012. The games that have been played for the past few years have ended now. Some never even started -- i.e. SEO hosting.

    The longer you stay stuck in the past, the worse off you're going to be.
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      What I find amusing is that people are still using the nonsense terms like "C class" or "class C" -- or A, B, C, D, etc. There's no such thing as a "class", much less there being a "C" or any other letter. These are invented definitions by self-proclaimed "marketing gurus" out to sell snake oil. Hosts giggle at these asinine terms, excluding the "SEO hosts" that bilk suckers for their money.
      This doesn't make any sense. Of course A, B, C, D are "real." The four components of an IP address are referred to by these letters to differentiate them. It's how people communicate about the parts of an IP address. Whether or not hosting on different class C IP addresses is important for SEO is another story. I believe it can't hurt as it's something that Google could easily log and easily use in algorithms. Whether I'm right or wrong on that doesn't matter - the point that claiming there's no such thing as "classes" when referring to IP addresses is still flat out wrong.

      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      Those who still think IP is the only telltale sign of relationship are also indulging in wishful thinking.
      I don't think anyone was saying that IP is the "only" telltale sign. You yourself just said you do believe in telltale signs, such as AdSense ID and whois. Why is it so ridiculous to think that Google might not track IP and take that into account? If you think that getting many backlinks from sites with the same whois might be bad, why is it a stretch to think that getting many backlinks from sites on the same server might not be viewed badly by Google?
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      • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
        Originally Posted by danparks View Post

        This doesn't make any sense. Of course A, B, C, D are "real." The four components of an IP address are referred to by these letters to differentiate them.
        All Internet-based networking is classless, and has been since 1993. Look up "CIDR". Read my other post that was linked to. There is no "A, B, C, D". That's a nonsense term. There is no such thing as a "class C". No offense, but the only people who insist on such things are not at all versed on networking, routing, or how the internet works in general (including hosting).

        Why is it so ridiculous to think that Google might not track IP and take that into account?
        Two words: shared hosting. Specifically virtual hosts (vhosts).
        IPs can easily have thousands of sites on the same IP, most of which are completely unrelated to one another. If you put your 10 or 100 blogs in the same account at a large host -- especially EIG brands like HostGator, etc -- then you're already lost in a sea of IP sharing sites. That's why you cannot penalize based on IP. Imagine all of the bloggers that link to one another, and use the same hosts. Do you think Google will penalize a blogger for linking to another blogger simply because they're using the same hosting company? No, of course not, that would be silly.

        If you think that getting many backlinks from sites with the same whois might be bad, why is it a stretch to think that getting many backlinks from sites on the same server might not be viewed badly by Google?
        Because it's simply not how things work. You're seeing boogeymen where none exist. Whois is far more tell-tale than an IP address.

        ___

        Personally, I don't care what you use. If you want to spend all of your money in a tinfoil hat sort of way, or subject yourself to the bad neighborhoods created by "SEO" hosts, then be my guest. I'm just telling you the facts. And "SEO hosting" is a pseudoscience "solution" to a problem that doesn't even exist. Whether you believe the science, or the pseudoscience, is completely up to you. Unfortunately, "affiliate marketing" is largely a religion dominated by amateur spammers now, so pseudoscience is winning.

        Good day to you all.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kingfish85
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Dude like I said you will never get it. NO ONE has said that it is the class of the IP that has any magic. You keep trying to light that straw. Its the fact that Hosting companies rarely give out multiple separate unique Class C Ips and higher to a single account or even on the same server. SEO hosting was invented to give people in a single account a portfolio of sites that do not look as obviously grouped together under one account or server as a shared account with multiple domains. End of story.

          You can whine complain , dodge and makeup any other strawhat you wish to make. Its not a matter of how you see it its a matter of what the facts are and you don't get to invent them
          Then why exactly do you keep throwing this "Unique Class C IPs" out there? Like I said, you need a lesson on IP addressing & classifying what IP's are used for because clearly you are clueless. Matter of facts...Lol, then start showing some. What you've listed so far is what every single other "seo affiliate expert" know-it-all says as well.

          You still do not get the fact that the class of the IP means NOTHING. But I guess you can't be wrong, since you're the "quan of seo" as you said. Whatever the F that means...

          Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

          What I find amusing is that people are still using the nonsense terms like "C class" or "class C" -- or A, B, C, D, etc. There's no such thing as a "class", much less there being a "C" or any other letter. These are invented definitions by self-proclaimed "marketing gurus" out to sell snake oil. Hosts giggle at these asinine terms, excluding the "SEO hosts" that bilk suckers for their money.

          There's no positive valuation given from IP addresses.

          At very most, sites can be downgraded or entirely deindexed if found to be on "bad neighborhoods" (network ranges comprised heavily of spam, shill, thin affiliate crap sites, etc), which is what most "SEO hosts" are. There's no way to hide the ASN or SWIP'd range from Google.

          Those who still think IP is the only telltale sign of relationship are also indulging in wishful thinking. The code in the site is a dead giveaway (AdSense IDs, for example), as is domain whois. And those are just two of the more common and obvious ones. Even "article spinning" (plagiarism, mostly) is being caught by improved AI that can detect flimsy transposition, borrowed phrases, and synonyms.

          The idea that you can trick Google or Bing with something like an IP address is therefore silly.

          Spend time and funds on creating quality sites people find useful, and would like to visit, and therefore share with others on their own blogs, sites, social media, etc. Or even something picked up by media outlets, colleges, and other authoritative sources.

          All of this blog commenting (spam), forum posting (spam), IP finagling, etc -- all ridiculous in 2012. The games that have been played for the past few years have ended now. Some never even started -- i.e. SEO hosting.

          The longer you stay stuck in the past, the worse off you're going to be.
          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          This doesn't make any sense. Of course A, B, C, D are "real." The four components of an IP address are referred to by these letters to differentiate them. It's how people communicate about the parts of an IP address. Whether or not hosting on different class C IP addresses is important for SEO is another story. I believe it can't hurt as it's something that Google could easily log and easily use in algorithms. Whether I'm right or wrong on that doesn't matter - the point that claiming there's no such thing as "classes" when referring to IP addresses is still flat out wrong.

          I don't think anyone was saying that IP is the "only" telltale sign. You yourself just said you do believe in telltale signs, such as AdSense ID and whois. Why is it so ridiculous to think that Google might not track IP and take that into account? If you think that getting many backlinks from sites with the same whois might be bad, why is it a stretch to think that getting many backlinks from sites on the same server might not be viewed badly by Google?
          No, you're wrong. The class of an IP is determined by the FIRST octet range. This "4 components" be is completely made up by internet marketers/seo hosts/affiliated marketers that for some reason think it's different. Sure, the classes are there. They pertain to mainly internal IP addressing for adding devices on a network, NOT HOSTING.

          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          To quote Kingfish's edits "useless information". You merely assume that those running networks either do not address those issues or use "spinning" so like Kingfish your whole argument is based on a strawman. The idea that because Google can use other things to track down a sites ownership in no way implies that A) they do B) that you should do nothing at all if you decide to build a network (your diatrible against doing anything but "if you build it they will come" techniques can be ignored until Kevin Costner does "Field of SEO").

          Fact is the web is run on IPs. Every domain is mapped to one right out the git go so it just makes sense if there ever becomes an issue to take away the one most obvious thing. the ohter issue is that many of you don't know that it isn't just Google alone this is done for. Its also done for competitors that often do report to google. So the Google can do this and that and walk on water argument is equally a failure.
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          There are plenty examples of that. its not rare at all. In an earlier post I listed a variety of niches I see that in all the time. Do I think that say a client running a pet shop can do that? rank number one for the term by links form his own site and be OK if there is a report by a competitor? Do I think he has nothing to worry about? No can't say that. I can't say that that hotel might not find a ranking issue in a serp if a competitor says - "they are ranking because of their own linking. either"

          So why would anyone utilize their own sister sites and put them on the same IP? Plus I get the distinct impression some people think there is an algo reason why people advocate different server appearance but thats false. Its for manual situations
          [quote=connorbringas;7444628]No one will be able to tell you for sure. However, my opinion and experience tells me that having multiple websites with the same/similar IP isnt a good idea if you are going for the same kws. However, if you are blogging/pointing some websites to the "money sites" in your case, I think it should be fine and you wont be penalized. In an example, I have multiple domains with thousands of pages pointing to one site and havent seen a penalty/problem with it-they are similar IP's as well.[/QUOTE]

          Well.

          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          Mike I agree with you on this that multiple IPs are best for contributing to surviving a manual review. But I do wonder if Google doesn't take IP into account in some way algorithmically. It's a simple thing for them to note. And while there are perfectly valid reasons for a site getting many backlinks from multiple sites on the same IP (such as a big business that has many "sister" sites in the same field that are all related, so the sites naturally link to one another and are naturally under the control of one IT person or staff using the same server), in the vast majority of cases one site getting many backlinks from many sites that all reside on the same IP certainly seems like cause to raise a red flag (why would many unrelated sites reference one site, and all those unrelated sites happen to be on the same server). Because it's so simple to track, and because it can be a sign of SEO manipulation, don't you think that if not now, then maybe in the future, Google might factor "too many links from the same IP" into their algorithms? I go with multiple IPs regardless of whether or not it matters regarding SERPS, so in the end I guess it doesn't really matter. But I'm always trying to "think like Google might think" so I do wonder if it might not be best to spread out IPs for SERP reasons (for now or to be set up nicely in the future).
          Everyone is forgetting 1 thing here. Run a trace on the IP's bound to a server. It doesn't matter how many different ranges there are or how many different blocks they are on, they still go through the same hops to get to the destination.

          Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

          All Internet-based networking is classless, and has been since 1993. Look up "CIDR". Read my other post that was linked to. There is no "A, B, C, D". That's a nonsense term. There is no such thing as a "class C". No offense, but the only people who insist on such things are not at all versed on networking, routing, or how the internet works in general (including hosting).

          Two words: shared hosting. Specifically virtual hosts (vhosts).
          IPs can easily have thousands of sites on the same IP, most of which are completely unrelated to one another. If you put your 10 or 100 blogs in the same account at a large host -- especially EIG brands like HostGator, etc -- then you're already lost in a sea of IP sharing sites. That's why you cannot penalize based on IP. Imagine all of the bloggers that link to one another, and use the same hosts. Do you think Google will penalize a blogger for linking to another blogger simply because they're using the same hosting company? No, of course not, that would be silly.

          Because it's simply not how things work. You're seeing boogeymen where none exist. Whois is far more tell-tale than an IP address.

          ___

          Personally, I don't care what you use. If you want to spend all of your money in a tinfoil hat sort of way, or subject yourself to the bad neighborhoods created by "SEO" hosts, then be my guest. I'm just telling you the facts. And "SEO hosting" is a pseudoscience "solution" to a problem that doesn't even exist. Whether you believe the science, or the pseudoscience, is completely up to you. Unfortunately, "affiliate marketing" is largely a religion dominated by amateur spammers now, so pseudoscience is winning.

          Good day to you all.
          Agree. I mean, look at the thousands of people on this forum pushing hostgator or any of the other EIG brands. /endofstory.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

            Then why exactly do you keep throwing this "Unique Class C IPs" out there?
            Goodnight. How obtuse people get when they are trying to vault themselves up as being smart. Isn't it obvious why i use the term? See if you can grasp this

            BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE TERM S PEOPLE USE WHEN TALKING ABOUT SEO HOSTING.

            and umm we are discussing um ...SEO hosting?

            MIke Anthony made up none of those terms but refers to them because thats the language people use. I'm not some nerd coming into a a forum thread arguing with people as to why a group of people use the particular language they use because I think it makes me smart to point it out.

            Can we have a lecture on terms when people say backlinking? Cause my ggodness man whats back in backlinking. Its just linking. Maybe if it was riciprocal it would be "back" "linking". The only back in backlinking is that most people try to post their links while the webmasters back is turned. Think of the opportunities Choose that one and you can have all kinds of threads showing how brilliant you are because clearly dude anyone who uses backlinking has no clue about anything. LOL

            Sorry man. You can't lecture anyone on how clueless they are because you came into this thread with all kinds of strawman arguments and have ignored people telling you over and over and over and over again why you are wrong about why they would want CLASS C hosting (knock yourself out with the term again)

            I got to say it is kind of funny for Hosts such as yourself to question the use of "Class" anything when you sell "Business class" hosting - the most arbitrary , nonspecific meaningless term ever to be foisted on the public.


            You still do not get the fact that the class of the IP means NOTHING.
            Asked and answered like what three times now. Read or shovel that straw. Anyone reading already knows I have specified why having UNIQUE Class C and IPs and up can be important. At this point claiming that I think the class of Ip rather than having DIFFERENT class C and up IPs is beneficial is just straight up lying.

            But I guess you can't be wrong, since you're the "quan of seo" as you said. Whatever the F that means...
            LOL yes that makes perfect sense reference something you don't know the meaning of as a point.

            Everyone is forgetting 1 thing here. Run a trace on the IP's bound to a server. It doesn't matter how many different ranges there are or how many different blocks they are on, they still go through the same hops to get to the destination.
            No one is forgetting anything or claiming anything you imply. You just continue to make up strawmen. No one ever said that Getting unique CLass C Ips gives you total anonymity/ protects you. Its merely one layer. Saying because something does not totally protect you means you should not bother with any protection is like saying if theres a thief thats a locksmith on the loose you should just leave your door unlocked.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Saying because something does not totally protect you means you should not bother with any protection is like saying if theres a thief thats a locksmith on the loose you should just leave your door unlocked.
              Or that you should sleep with that girl you just met at the bar without a condom. You know, because they are not 100% effective. So why bother?
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Or that you should sleep with that girl you just met at the bar without a condom.
                The day after a beer night that analogy seems too real and personal. Whats her name Mike? I'm telling the GF.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

          All Internet-based networking is classless, and has been since 1993. Look up "CIDR". Read my other post that was linked to. There is no "A, B, C, D". That's a nonsense term. There is no such thing as a "class C". No offense, but the only people who insist on such things are not at all versed on networking, routing, or how the internet works in general (including hosting).
          Total silliness. Seriously anyone who uses the term "Class C doesn't know how the internet works? :rolleyes:. You can always tell when people are desperate to assert their importance when they make such over the top and ridiculous statements

          Heres what we have folks - a couple guys in hosting that want to impress us on how smart they are and how every one who isn't a host is dumb but who in the process show their own ineptness to grasp the rudiments of language.

          Not one of us in this thread invented the term "class C" . Don't believe me? Here

          Classful network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          http://www.networkcomputing.com/netdesign/ip101.html


          Have things changed over the years? Why of course yes duh. In language do people still refer to terms to designate certain things even though technology has changed? Why of course. Go argue over someone using the term "Film" when a movie was digitally recorded or the expression horse power when horses haven't powered transportation in nearly a century. You are just being silly and self importnat should you choose to do so.

          Class C for everyone that discusses this issue is simply a way to designate the kind of iP numeric you get with your hosting. IF you are too daft or nerdie to get that and want to lobby for some other term go change language usage but when you do don't think you will impress anyone but yourself of how smart you are. You've just pretty much demonstrated your cluelessness as to how language is defined by usage not by technical minutiae.
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          • Profile picture of the author kpmedia
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            want to impress us on how smart they are and how every one who isn't a host is dumb
            I can imagine you also thought -- or possibly still think, depending on age -- that all of your parents, teachers, professors and bosses are a bunch of dum-dums. Anybody that knows more than you is suddenly an egghead or elitist trying to "impress" you. Sorry, but that's just daft.

            This is a topic I know, but apparently you and others here do not.

            @...

            What I find truly silly is the attempt to make the third octet a "class" -- when that's NOT what a class is -- all while completely ignoring the ASN. The ASN dictates the network cluster ownership, not the third octet range, or any octet range for that matter. And that's just for IPv4. It's going to get obnoxious for IPv6, in terms of route management (security, mostly), firewalls, etc.

            Again, snake oil for people seeking magic cures. Have at it. Some host will be glad to take your money. There's always a shyster willing to steal from the ignorant.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by Kingfish85 View Post

              I find it hilarious that you quote to links explaining the network classes yet you still cannot comprehend what they are and how they are applied. Again, when using the classes A,B or C they refer to the number of physical devices or "hosts" the specific range is capable of. It has nothing to do with SEO.
              Dude at this point the thing that is hilarious is you trying to pretend like you are even competent to discuss the issues surrounding SEO hosting. All you can helplessly do is try and make your strawman argument stick. every website and active domain is mapped to an IP and here you are arguing that IPs have nothing to do with SEo. Too silly. No? Then why are you reduced to arguing about why people should not use the language they do to refer to kinds of addresses they do. I've told you before you don't understand squat about language and how USAGE in a culture defines it. If you studied English you would probably be arguing that "cool" must refer to temperature to make yourself feel important.

              We are not interested in your silly semantics game of what terms should be used We know what the OP is referring to and what he is looking for in terms of being on the topic he is interested in.

              I and other have told you over and over again its not the class of the IP but the amount of UNIQUE separate CLASS C IPS. We are interested in not making it obvious that they are all on the same box because of existing patterns. Go ahead and play dumb again or claim that because its not foolproof that its nonsense. You don't have the street creds to be taken seriously on SEO related issues here. To hear you jokers argue it its like you have never seen the IP addresses that go out with every hosting account. Your problem is that EVERYONE ELSE HAS so WHATEVER term the OP uses we know what he is referring to and you don't.

              its quite obvious you are only attaching yourself to this discussion because you are trumping your superiority over some of your competitors who use the terms. You have nothing of substance to offer on SEO.

              Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

              This is a topic I know, but apparently you and others here do not.
              Never heard of you and your forum page link indicates you are into all kinds of things. Expertise not noted.

              The topic is SEO hosting and the one thing You and King have demonstrated CONCLUSIVELY is that you do not understand why people use it or the issues involved with it. You are merely trying to propose thyselves as Lords of Geekdom by arguing semantics. and please spare us the being kids accusation. No profession is more filled with kid owners than web hosting. Nada.

              What I find truly silly is the attempt to make the third octet a "class"
              learn to read son. No one hear invented the term Class C Ips. We are not attempting to make anything into a class. Your accusation is silly. Its already in usage and has been for years in and out of SEO hosts mentioning it. Thats whats make you and KIngs derailement of this thread so perfectly silly. You are in here on the topic of what semantics should be rather than addressing the real issues. arguing with people who didn't make up the terms but acting like they did.

              Probably in Fish's case because his strawman arguments not related to semantics were completely blown up. He didn't have a clue of why it is the people actually want to have what some SEO hosts provide.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kingfish85
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                Dude at this point the thing that is hilarious is you trying to pretend like you are even competent to discuss the issues surrounding SEO hosting. All you can helplessly do is try and make your strawman argument stick. every website and active domain is mapped to an IP and here you are arguing that IPs have nothing to do with SEo. Too silly. No? Then why are you reduced to arguing about why people should not use the language they do to refer to kinds of addresses they do. I've told you before you don't understand squat about language and how USAGE in a culture defines it. If you studied English you would probably be arguing that "cool" must refer to temperature to make yourself feel important.

                We are not interested in your silly semantics game of what terms should be used We know what the OP is referring to and what he is looking for in terms of being on the topic he is interested in.

                I and other have told you over and over again its not the class of the IP but the amount of UNIQUE separate CLASS C IPS. We are interested in not making it obvious that they are all on the same box because of existing patterns. Go ahead and play dumb again or claim that because its not foolproof that its nonsense. You don't have the street creds to be taken seriously on SEO related issues here. To hear you jokers argue it its like you have never seen the IP addresses that go out with every hosting account. Your problem is that EVERYONE ELSE HAS so WHATEVER term the OP uses we know what he is referring to and you don't.

                its quite obvious you are only attaching yourself to this discussion because you are trumping your superiority over some of your competitors who use the terms. You have nothing of substance to offer on SEO.



                Never heard of you and your forum page link indicates you are into all kinds of things. Expertise not noted.

                The topic is SEO hosting and the one thing You and King have demonstrated CONCLUSIVELY is that you do not understand why people use it or the issues involved with it. You are merely trying to propose thyselves as Lords of Geekdom by arguing semantics. and please spare us the being kids accusation. No profession is more filled with kid owners than web hosting. Nada.



                learn to read son. No one hear invented the term Class C Ips. We are not attempting to make anything into a class. Your accusation is silly. Its already in usage and has been for years in and out of SEO hosts mentioning it. Thats whats make you and KIngs derailement of this thread so perfectly silly. You are in here on the topic of what semantics should be rather than addressing the real issues. arguing with people who didn't make up the terms but acting like they did.

                Probably in Fish's case because his strawman arguments not related to semantics were completely blown up. He didn't have a clue of why it is the people actually want to have what some SEO hosts provide.
                Straw-man argument? Lol, no, it's the fact that you don't want to hear what this "bull-shit" really is that's called "seo hosting".

                Ok, so let's put 5 sites on 5 different IP addresses on the same server. What's the common denominator here? They ALL USE THE SAME HOPS TO GET TO THAT SERVER. It doesn't matter how many different blocks they are on or how many different "Class C" whatever. Remember, CIDR has taken over...so..."class c", yea.....

                To be completely honest, if you "need" this made up concept, you're doing something wrong.

                I mean hell, even black hatters will tell you "seo hosting" is complete BS.

                Regarding the classifications on netblocks & IP addressing, you seriously need to do some research in the field. You seem to forget that search engines take into account of the following:

                interlinking between sites
                backlinking (quality links)
                whois information
                route traces from location X (them) to the sites themselves
                content comparison
                keywords, tags, anchors etc etc
                netblock reg info (swip'd doesn't matter)


                You all say "diversity", but having sites in the same place is the furthest thing from it. It doesn't matter how many different IP's you have, they are in the same place, on the same server, using the same routes to get there and on the same network. Think about that before you respond.

                Of course, who other than 98% of so called "SEO's" using "seo hosting" are trying to game the search engines? At the same time, I wouldn't expect anything different from someone with "ALWAYS WANTED TO BUILD YOUR OWN NETWORK?" & classed IP's listed on your website. :confused:

                Quoted right form your site:
                Every month people spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars buying SEO links. They do it because getting high authority links is the only way to ensure top spots in lucrative competitive search results.
                My god, that couldn't be the furthest from the truth. Seems like the snake oil is back.

                Understanding SEO Hosting and Class C IPs.
                Really? Do you understand what this "class C" IP is?

                It seems to me that your ridiculous, false arguments are mainly because you're being called out since you sell most of this type of "networked spammy, try to trick the search engines" type of service.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  For brevity and avoiding repetition I'll just skip the nonsense of going over the same issue yet again That and the you teaching me SEO stuff because I don't think any regular here believes you have the credentials to teach me SEO. but this was funny as I head off to bed.

                  [quote=Kingfish85;7453792]
                  Of course, who other than 98% of so called "SEO's" are trying to game the search engines?
                  ROFL.......Umm.... have you taken a look around your virtual surroundings? . You really think you are calling me out on a board where 98% of the board is "trying to game the search engines" ? Do you walk into a rock concert and think you will get any headway in arguing that rock and roll is the devil's music too and if you feel so strongly that all kinds of what you call gaming is wrong then what are you doing here pretending to be squeaky clean while dropping a sig to pick up business? Trying to pimp the devil's dollars from people gaming the system? Some would say hypocrisy is the very heart of the snake oil you accuse others of.

                  This was amusing too

                  My god, that couldn't be the furthest from the truth. Seems like the snake oil is back.
                  Its the Gospel truth you just don't know a lick of SEO. Any one denying that links are bought and sold every day and is rampant in SEO is totally and absolutely clueless and I'll even show you a company you know well doing one subtle but guilty form of buying links - Your very own hosting service


                  It seems to me that your ridiculous, false arguments are mainly because you're being called out since you sell most of this type of "networked spammy, try to trick the search engines" type of service.
                  Too silly again cause A) you are pimping your services to the same crowd here so you are deliberately pushing to be a host that provides services to people gaming the system but LOL believe you are calling them out while offering services to help them host the spammy promoted sites.:rolleyes:

                  and um B) your own backlink profile betrays that you have actually participated in getting links not based on merit but based on paying for them with financial relationships. In essence your best links are bought so you are being totally hypocritical and funny as can be. In fact I could not find one link in my quick search where you had any link that Google would call editorial. Its basically all bought or spammy ad links (which Google says should be no followed).

                  So you are proof of what I claimed.

                  Word to the wise - don't throw stones while your business is housed in a glass building but thanks for referring to my offers. It usually results in sales so that WAS kind of you.

                  Since your own business illustrates how various sites leverage dollar bills and get links. Why not buy aged domains and use them? You don't have a moral foot to stand on. Stick to arguing semantics of Class C IPs
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          But I do wonder if Google doesn't take IP into account in some way algorithmically. It's a simple thing for them to note..... But I'm always trying to "think like Google might think" so I do wonder if it might not be best to spread out IPs for SERP reasons (for now or to be set up nicely in the future).
          You have a valid issue and I believe they do. at any rate you can ignore the following nonsense

          Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

          Because it's simply not how things work.
          None of us knows that Google does not look at IPs and anyone claiming authoritatively that that is not how Google works is just blowing pure smoke. Many professional SEOs have seen the possible effects of IP diversity. every domain name is mapped to an Ip so it is nothing for Google to take IPs into account. Their crawlers after all just like our web browsers use them. In the good old days (say two years ago) a lot of people believed that the reason why even crappy links helped to rank was because of IP diversity (more people referring to you would make sense in the good old days as a ranking factor)

          So its entirely likely that there is something in the algo that isolates sites based on what it considers unique and non unique "votes" (links). Anyone running around claiming that having more links form variously unique IP factors cannot possibly help can be ignored until they bust into Google and get a copy of the algo.

          however as far as SEO hosting is concerned its not done for reasons of the algo. Its done for manual review situations. The people in this thread implying that its done for algo reasons are totally clueless.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      Those who still think IP is the only telltale sign of relationship are also indulging in wishful thinking. The code in the site is a dead giveaway (AdSense IDs, for example), as is domain whois. And those are just two of the more common and obvious ones. Even "article spinning" (plagiarism, mostly) is being caught by improved AI that can detect flimsy transposition, borrowed phrases, and synonyms.
      To quote Kingfish's edits "useless information". You merely assume that those running networks either do not address those issues or use "spinning" so like Kingfish your whole argument is based on a strawman. The idea that because Google can use other things to track down a sites ownership in no way implies that A) they do B) that you should do nothing at all if you decide to build a network (your diatrible against doing anything but "if you build it they will come" techniques can be ignored until Kevin Costner does "Field of SEO").

      Fact is the web is run on IPs. Every domain is mapped to one right out the git go so it just makes sense if there ever becomes an issue to take away the one most obvious thing. the ohter issue is that many of you don't know that it isn't just Google alone this is done for. Its also done for competitors that often do report to google. So the Google can do this and that and walk on water argument is equally a failure.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
      Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

      What I find amusing is that people are still using the nonsense terms like "C class" or "class C" -- or A, B, C, D, etc. There's no such thing as a "class", much less there being a "C" or any other letter. These are invented definitions by self-proclaimed "marketing gurus" out to sell snake oil. Hosts giggle at these asinine terms, excluding the "SEO hosts" that bilk suckers for their money.
      Sorry, Class A, B, C, D is NOT invented by marketing gurus or out to sell snake oil. It is to help 'sort out' network architecture and it has been around since 1980s, before the term "Internet Marketing" is born.

      So get your facts right.
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  • Profile picture of the author alkirke1
    Thanks Mike,
    Appreciate your reply
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingfish85
      Originally Posted by Joseph Then View Post

      Sorry, Class A, B, C, D is NOT invented by marketing gurus or out to sell snake oil. It is to help 'sort out' network architecture and it has been around since 1980s, before the term "Internet Marketing" is born.

      So get your facts right.
      Now, since we need to get our "facts right", please see my details at the bottom for when CIDR "Classless Inter-Domain Routing" replaced classful networking.

      Please explain how the class relates to hosting? Yes, there are classes, but they have nothing to do with hosting or seo at all. They don't "help sort out" network architecture. The classes are comprised of the first octet range of an network range which specifies the number of hosts it can have.

      So when people say A is the first octet, B is the second octet, C is the 3rd octet etc, it means nothing. See below for the quote the OP put:

      Originally Posted by Bruce99 View Post

      Just to be clear on C class... this is a quote from another forum:

      "An IP consist of 4 parts AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD - the first part is called A-class, the second part B-class and the third part C-class. So any IP under the last part will be in the same C-class. So for example:

      123.123.123.1 and 123.123.123.2 are in the same C-class but
      123.123.123.1 and 123.123.124.1 is in two different C-classes
      ^This is NOT how IP addresses are classed, or ever classed. The class only pertains the the first octet. The IP's above are not even considered class C range... :confused:

      Class A
      0. 0. 0. 0 = 00000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      127.255.255.255 = 01111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      0nnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH

      Class B
      128. 0. 0. 0 = 10000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      191.255.255.255 = 10111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      10nnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH

      Class C
      192. 0. 0. 0 = 11000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      223.255.255.255 = 11011111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      110nnnnn.nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH

      Class D
      224. 0. 0. 0 = 11100000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      239.255.255.255 = 11101111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      1110XXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX

      Class E
      240. 0. 0. 0 = 11110000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      255.255.255.255 = 11111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      1111XXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX

      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Goodnight. How obtuse people get when they are trying to vault themselves up as being smart. Isn't it obvious why i use the term? See if you can grasp this

      BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE TERM S PEOPLE USE WHEN TALKING ABOUT SEO HOSTING.

      and umm we are discussing um ...SEO hosting?

      MIke Anthony made up none of those terms but refers to them because thats the language people use. I'm not some nerd coming into a a forum thread arguing with people as to why a group of people use the particular language they use because I think it makes me smart to point it out.

      Can we have a lecture on terms when people say backlinking? Cause my ggodness man whats back in backlinking. Its just linking. Maybe if it was riciprocal it would be "back" "linking". The only back in backlinking is that most people try to post their links while the webmasters back is turned. Think of the opportunities Choose that one and you can have all kinds of threads showing how brilliant you are because clearly dude anyone who uses backlinking has no clue about anything. LOL

      Sorry man. You can't lecture anyone on how clueless they are because you came into this thread with all kinds of strawman arguments and have ignored people telling you over and over and over and over again why you are wrong about why they would want CLASS C hosting (knock yourself out with the term again)

      I got to say it is kind of funny for Hosts such as yourself to question the use of "Class" anything when you sell "Business class" hosting - the most arbitrary , nonspecific meaningless term ever to be foisted on the public.

      Asked and answered like what three times now. Read or shovel that straw. Anyone reading already knows I have specified why having UNIQUE Class C and IPs and up can be important. At this point claiming that I think the class of Ip rather than having DIFFERENT class C and up IPs is beneficial is just straight up lying.

      LOL yes that makes perfect sense reference something you don't know the meaning of as a point.

      No one is forgetting anything or claiming anything you imply. You just continue to make up strawmen. No one ever said that Getting unique CLass C Ips gives you total anonymity/ protects you. Its merely one layer. Saying because something does not totally protect you means you should not bother with any protection is like saying if theres a thief thats a locksmith on the loose you should just leave your door unlocked.
      Pfft. please... Go back and read thoroughly the 2 links you quoted and explain how they pertain to hosting. The fact of the matter is that they don't.

      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Total silliness. Seriously anyone who uses the term "Class C doesn't know how the internet works? :rolleyes:. You can always tell when people are desperate to assert their importance when they make such over the top and ridiculous statements

      Heres what we have folks - a couple guys in hosting that want to impress us on how smart they are and how every one who isn't a host is dumb but who in the process show their own ineptness to grasp the rudiments of language.

      Not one of us in this thread invented the term "class C" . Don't believe me? Here

      Classful network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      http://www.networkcomputing.com/netdesign/ip101.html


      Have things changed over the years? Why of course yes duh. In language do people still refer to terms to designate certain things even though technology has changed? Why of course. Go argue over someone using the term "Film" when a movie was digitally recorded or the expression horse power when horses haven't powered transportation in nearly a century. You are just being silly and self importnat should you choose to do so.

      Class C for everyone that discusses this issue is simply a way to designate the kind of iP numeric you get with your hosting. IF you are too daft or nerdie to get that and want to lobby for some other term go change language usage but when you do don't think you will impress anyone but yourself of how smart you are. You've just pretty much demonstrated your cluelessness as to how language is defined by usage not by technical minutiae.
      I find it hilarious that you quote to links explaining the network classes yet you still cannot comprehend what they are and how they are applied. Again, when using the classes A,B or C they refer to the number of physical devices or "hosts" the specific range is capable of. It has nothing to do with SEO.

      So, now that we've gotten that outlined, let's move on to "unique class c ip's". Since the class of the network range for said network has nothing to do with SEO, we can conclude that the terms "SEO & IP or network class" actually mean nothing. So, since it means nothing and they do not relate what so ever, we can conclude that selling you "SEO hosting" is actually nothing.

      Strawman arguments...as I said quite a few times, you need a lesson on general networking & IP addressing. Period.


      Classful networking was replaced by Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR), starting in 1993 with the specification of RFC 1518

      RFC = Request for Comments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      RFC 1518: RFC 1518 - An Architecture for IP Address Allocation with CIDR

      Since CIDR has replaced classful networking, there "IS NO" C-Class. Even though IP ranges can still be considered part of a class from the years ago, it means nothing now. The IPV4 CIDR blocks people refer to, are not the same as this "C Class" you people keep referring to.
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  • Profile picture of the author Becker13
    Banned
    OMFG LOOK AT MAH NUMBERS

    I R SO GOOD AT SEO NO YOU DUMB, SO WHAT I MAKE NO MONEY< LEAST I AM MASTER OF CLASS CCCCC IPPPSSS

    Class A
    0. 0. 0. 0 = 00000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
    127.255.255.255 = 01111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
    0nnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH

    Class B
    128. 0. 0. 0 = 10000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
    191.255.255.255 = 10111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
    10nnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH

    Class C
    192. 0. 0. 0 = 11000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
    223.255.255.255 = 11011111.11111111.11111111.11111111
    110nnnnn.nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH

    Class D
    224. 0. 0. 0 = 11100000.00000000.00000000.00000000
    239.255.255.255 = 11101111.11111111.11111111.11111111
    1110XXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX

    Class E
    240. 0. 0. 0 = 11110000.00000000.00000000.00000000
    255.255.255.255 = 11111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
    1111XXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX

    lol jesus christ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingfish85
      Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

      OMFG LOOK AT MAH NUMBERS

      I R SO GOOD AT SEO NO YOU DUMB, SO WHAT I MAKE NO MONEY< LEAST I AM MASTER OF CLASS CCCCC IPPPSSS

      Class A
      0. 0. 0. 0 = 00000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      127.255.255.255 = 01111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      0nnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH

      Class B
      128. 0. 0. 0 = 10000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      191.255.255.255 = 10111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      10nnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH.HHHHHHHH

      Class C
      192. 0. 0. 0 = 11000000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      223.255.255.255 = 11011111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      110nnnnn.nnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnn.HHHHHHHH

      Class D
      224. 0. 0. 0 = 11100000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      239.255.255.255 = 11101111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      1110XXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX

      Class E
      240. 0. 0. 0 = 11110000.00000000.00000000.00000000
      255.255.255.255 = 11111111.11111111.11111111.11111111
      1111XXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX.XXXXXXXX

      lol jesus christ...
      What's your point? Do you not understand what that is?
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  • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
    Interesting....time to read on about this before I decide to start a private blog network? O_O
    Signature

    RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by GGpaul View Post

      Interesting....time to read on about this before I decide to start a private blog network? O_O
      When you do ignore alot of things in this thread. It makes absolutely no sense to ignore IP diversity when building a network. None whatsoever. As indicated its better to use diverse shared accounts to get what SEO hosts provide but its just rank silliness to claim Ips have nothing to do with SEO.
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      • Profile picture of the author GGpaul
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        When you do ignore alot of things in this thread. It makes absolutely no sense to ignore IP diversity when building a network. None whatsoever. As indicated its better to use diverse shared accounts to get what SEO hosts provide but its just rank silliness to claim Ips have nothing to do with SEO.
        So would seohost.com be good to use?
        Signature

        RIP Dad Oct 14 1954 - Mar 14 2015.

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  • Profile picture of the author atlanta2008
    I have a guy in my real estate niche that has most of his BL coming from his own websites ( sidewide too haha ) all on same IP and he is nailed to#1 for every top local term ( over 700 keywords in total) .
    To add insolt to injury most of them are duplicate content , same template websites.
    I guess 12 years old website in same niche with zero SEO ever done to it goes a long way sometimes.
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  • Profile picture of the author yohanaton
    Personally, I'd always look for as many unique subnets as possible...
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