Google has just RUINED my day

80 replies
  • SEO
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So I spend all year working on ranking for crappy harder to deal with keywords whilst I continually build up my site. Finally I start to rank for some better finance terms and everything starts getting seriously exciting and then I see this today in google.co.uk.

If you're in the UK type any typical comparison shopping terms and google is dominating the ads with their crap.

Type in "car insurance" or "find a mortgage" or "compare mortgages" or "credit cards" or "best buy to let mortgages" or a thousand other things and Google will be nicely place right in front of you.

I'm not one to moan about Google like everybody else does but it does seem contradictory to everything Google says.

Firstly: they don't have to pay for their ads and seem to be able to place it exactly where they want to on every single page. No stressing about a quality scoring algorithm or anything of the sort

Secondly: Their ad has been absolutely customised to look just the way they want it to. It doesn't have the coloured background like the other ads do and looks like a normal listing except it has a very attractive little button on it. It often contains very nice and attractive pictures of products as well that takes up pretty much half the page and is impossible to ignore.

Thirdly: As far as I'm concerned it just seems to be an affiliate site with very little content. I'd sooner get my advice from a company that specialises in finance. Google probably just passes your details on to a random company you've never heard of in many cases.


I don't see how they can justify this as fair or even providing the best value to the consumer. I do believe this is a bit of an abuse of power by google to be honest. At least make your ads look like other companies ads if nothing else.

Rant over, sorry.
#day #google #ruined
  • Profile picture of the author emini_guy
    Google sucks! I just summed it up for you. I feel your pain. I have never tried to game it, have always been doing it organically, but what Google is doing is just wrong and exploitative in some instances.

    For instance, I rank on the first page of Yahoo/Bing twice for some relevant keyword, but on Google I am not even among the first 20 pages for this very same keyword. But, at the same time, Google links to my YouTube videos and blogger posts that are much less relevant than what's on my site.

    In other words, it sends traffic to its properties and not directly to mine. It does this already on page 1. Somehow my old YouTube video is more relevant than my site that is being updated a few times a week. Beats me! Yes, Google is evil.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    It will continue to be more and more difficult for terms like these as Google properties slowly and surely dominate all results above the fold in one way or another. Your best bet is to go after smaller markets and long-tail keywords when it comes to getting traffic from Google.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      What's funny is how so many Internet marketers kept their most lucrative niches to themselves, never revealing them to anyone, lest any fellow marketers catch on to where the big bucks were.

      I wonder how many of those Internet marketers, who kept their niches so secretive, installed Google Analytics on their sites?
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      • Profile picture of the author emini_guy
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post


        I wonder how many of those Internet marketers, who kept their niches so secretive, installed Google Analytics on their sites?
        Are you suggesting that Google ANALytics can be screwing us over? Because I am somehow getting this impression.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
          Originally Posted by emini_guy View Post

          Are you suggesting that Google ANALytics can be screwing us over? Because I am somehow getting this impression.
          I'm not saying anything. I'm sure Google would never ever use your data for their own benefit. Do you think they would do that?
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          • Profile picture of the author emini_guy
            Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

            Do you think they would do that?
            Of course, not. I am glad we agree on that.
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            • Profile picture of the author birdman87
              I haven't had any bad rankings. In fact I'm very pleased with the way I've been ranking.

              Do you guys think though that now google has its hands in this pie that it will start "scrutinising" other websites a lot more. Even though I've been relatively well-behaved I'm sure it could always find a reason to penalise a site if it wanted to.

              Do you predict that it would start Pushing other sites down to ensure it does better in its markets?
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by emini_guy View Post

          Are you suggesting that Google ANALytics can be screwing us over?
          Dan's just one among tens of thousands, probably, who are also suggesting it.

          Because I am somehow getting this impression.
          Better late than never.
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          • Profile picture of the author emini_guy
            Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post



            Better late than never.
            You are right. Uninstalling it this month.
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            • Profile picture of the author cooler1
              Originally Posted by emini_guy View Post

              You are right. Uninstalling it this month.
              Google have access to the data which Analytics gets from your site anyway. Unstalling it is pointless. Don't listen to the fear mongers.
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            • Profile picture of the author PvPGuy
              Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

              Better late than never.
              Ha! Had to chuckle at that one.

              I feel your pain, and can't really comment on google except to say the long term goal of the internets is to control the content that people see; and to have folks pay a premium for access to the masses, much like a cable company or the old paradigm of major news networks. I won't venture to put a timeframe on that endgame, but its something I always keep in mind; I'm fighting a war I ultimately will not win....which I can accept, as long as I win many battles along the way
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              • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                Originally Posted by PvPGuy View Post

                I'm fighting a war I ultimately will not win....which I can accept, as long as I win many battles along the way
                Nothing wrong with fighting the good fight.
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              • Profile picture of the author Pradeep Bhagwat
                Cry against Google is breakout here and that is true. Google had shattered dream of many internet marketers, many websites which are making millions of dollars. Panda and Penguin rules done that all the things and there is total disaster situation.

                My experience

                I have a website which is Sorry I have to say `was` ranking on first page for certain keyword. I am getting about 30+ visitors daily and I am happy with that, but suddenly it goes no where. Most important is news, press releases, one page wordpress blogs are on first page for that keyword and my well develop website is no where. Even my Fanpage is for that website is ranking on first page!

                I had purchased a keyword reach domain and developed the website but it is also nowhere now.

                I am getting good ranking in Yaho, Bing etc for the same websites.

                Solution:

                I think the days getting easy ranking with Google are gone now! You have to go for other to get traffic. As John Chow says in his latest course 'Blogging with John Chow', You have to build yourself as a brand so that people come to you for purchase.

                - Pradeep
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                • Profile picture of the author myob
                  What seems to be missing here is that Google is not a search engine, it is an advertising company that has entrenched itself by offering free services - including a huge array of internet tools. They don't make any money from search, nor do they profit from hardly any of the products or services they offer. Nearly all of Google's revenue comes from advertising. Offering free services to promote sales is just a marketing model that Google uses - and it's a very good one.
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                  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                    They don't make any money from search..
                    Adsense? ... (filler so it's not too short)
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                    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
                      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

                      Adsense? ... (filler so it's not too short)
                      Adsense IS 'ads'
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                      • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
                        Originally Posted by DanielleS View Post

                        Adsense IS 'ads'
                        Thank you, Danielle.

                        I was not disputing that fact. I don't even care what they are.

                        The comment was there's no profit from search, and there is, clearly.
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                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by KenThompson View Post

                      Adsense? ... (filler so it's not too short)
                      Technically this is paid advertising, which is of course a significant source of revenue for Google.
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                • Profile picture of the author Daniel Canfield
                  Originally Posted by bhagwat68 View Post


                  I have a website which is Sorry I have to say `was` ranking on first page for certain keyword. I am getting about 30+ visitors daily and I am happy with that, but suddenly it goes no where.

                  - Pradeep
                  If you are only getting 30 visitors daily then you definitely do not have the sample size needed to draw any conclusions. If you were drawing 3,000 or 30,000 visitors a day I would definitely listen but not when you only have 30 visitors.

                  I always get a kick when people say they were affected by a Google algorithmic change because now their blog is only getting 50 visits a month instead of the 70 a month it was getting before.
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                • Profile picture of the author Becker13
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by bhagwat68 View Post

                  Cry against Google is breakout here and that is true. Google had shattered dream of many internet marketers, many websites which are making millions of dollars. Panda and Penguin rules done that all the things and there is total disaster situation.

                  My experience

                  I have a website which is Sorry I have to say `was` ranking on first page for certain keyword. I am getting about 30+ visitors daily and I am happy with that, but suddenly it goes no where. Most important is news, press releases, one page wordpress blogs are on first page for that keyword and my well develop website is no where. Even my Fanpage is for that website is ranking on first page!

                  I had purchased a keyword reach domain and developed the website but it is also nowhere now.

                  I am getting good ranking in Yaho, Bing etc for the same websites.

                  Solution:

                  I think the days getting easy ranking with Google are gone now! You have to go for other to get traffic. As John Chow says in his latest course 'Blogging with John Chow', You have to build yourself as a brand so that people come to you for purchase.

                  - Pradeep
                  Are you guys on fricking crack. I literally ranked for a 22k search in 24 hours and many other big searches in the same time period...


                  (Proof right here AND I have seen total noobs do the same thing 24 Hour SEO Ranking)


                  SEO is easier than ever, its not dead, and smart people are still thriving.

                  Like literally every Google update has been like christmas because it gets rid of shitty SEOs/website owners and makes it easier for good SEOs to just eat it up (agency wise and affiliate wise)

                  Google authorship

                  High PR relevant links (f@&K i know, you might have to invest in your rankings)

                  Social signals

                  Smart anchor text with tools and posting to to quality sites

                  Its not that hard....

                  I see so many people complaining, but with a few high PR links I am able to rank clients in literally days and call it GG. I was never able to do that before.

                  Unless your website is "digital camera xyz review" the google listings arn't doing crap to you and if that was your site, you really do not belong in the rankings anyways


                  Googles evil...No shat. They are a business. Whether its algorithms, competitors, or batman something is always going to be there to make it "unfair"

                  jeeze louise its a fecking gold mine right now and you guys are sitting around complaining
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                  • Profile picture of the author tech84
                    Originally Posted by Becker13 View Post

                    Are you guys on fricking crack. I literally ranked for a 22k search in 24 hours and many other big searches in the same time period...


                    (Proof right here AND I have seen total noobs do the same thing 24 Hour SEO Ranking)


                    SEO is easier than ever, its not dead, and smart people are still thriving.

                    Like literally every Google update has been like christmas because it gets rid of shitty SEOs/website owners and makes it easier for good SEOs to just eat it up (agency wise and affiliate wise)

                    Google authorship

                    High PR relevant links (f@&K i know, you might have to invest in your rankings)

                    Social signals

                    Smart anchor text with tools and posting to to quality sites

                    Its not that hard....

                    I see so many people complaining, but with a few high PR links I am able to rank clients in literally days and call it GG. I was never able to do that before.

                    Unless your website is "digital camera xyz review" the google listings arn't doing crap to you and if that was your site, you really do not belong in the rankings anyways


                    Googles evil...No shat. They are a business. Whether its algorithms, competitors, or batman something is always going to be there to make it "unfair"

                    jeeze louise its a fecking gold mine right now and you guys are sitting around complaining

                    It's because Google made it harder for them to rank websites the old way.


                    Oh and because because Google owes them rankings.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert View Post

        What's funny is how so many Internet marketers kept their most lucrative niches to themselves, never revealing them to anyone, lest any fellow marketers catch on to where the big bucks were.

        I wonder how many of those Internet marketers, who kept their niches so secretive, installed Google Analytics on their sites?

        I have G Analytics on my sites, I could care less what they do with the data, considering I run Adsense on those same sites. I have no doubts Adsense collects more data than Analytics shows the end user (me).




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    • Profile picture of the author birdman87
      I agree with you there mate.

      I will go after smaller properties eventually. I've put so much heart and soul into this though, that I really cannot just give up on it. A guy with a small budget and limited time working his arse off competing very well against multi-billion budget companies on the search engines. What I've achieved I'm immensely proud of.

      We have lots of content on our site and the content we decide to put on their is all based on what the majority of our enquiries ask about. It literally is added and altered as we go along to try to best answer any questions that we are asked. Basically, completely focused on what the visitor wants to know from typing in a specific keyword.

      The thing that annoys me the most though is not when it ranks for "compare" terms. A lot of our leads say to us that they were getting frustrated with the internet as all they wanted was some information or advice on a particular topic. All they ended up getting were these huge comparison sites. When people search for advice and information from a broker, and instead get given a whole first page of results about comparing the best whatever it really isn't helpful.

      I thought that maybe google would see this and change it but it's actually jumped on the bandwagon instead. We get so much feedback saying how glad they are to find trustworthy and efficient brokers like us online. All google is promoting is humanless call centres and lead-gen/affiliate comparison tables. I know that it's easy to be pissed off when it's my niche but it really does strike me as exploitation and abuse of power. At least play the game like the other companies have to, apply quality score to your own ads and have them look like other ads and not stand out.

      Forgetting about my website for a moment and just looking at the comparison sites. Nothing whatsoever stands out as far as google is concerned. It's comparison search results offer nothing over much higher authority and older well-known websites that are UK household names and have been doing it for years. It even looks crap visually.

      How can they suddenly justify pride of place in their search results overnight like this? They should hold themselves up to their own standards.

      Baffles me. I genuinely would welcome bing to become more dominant.

      I'd love matt cutts to try to speak directly on this topic and answer the points I've raised. Doubt he ever would though.



      p.s. Please don't judge the link in my sig as a indicator of how high/low quality my sites are. It was my first ever site, I keep it there for sentimental value to remind myself how far I've come as self-taught and as an reminder of what NOT to do.

      I was also intending to use them as a way of testing what Google is doing when it changed an algorithm.
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        There's a website in one of my client's niches that is in the top 3 of page one (for several very competitive keywords).

        They have almost no content, the site is poorly optimised (according to Google's guidelines), no Twitter/Facebook/Youtube traffic, and the site has only two backlinks.

        Must be voodoo

        Putting Google Analytics on your site is like deliberately installing a keylogging trojan.

        Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author connorbringas
      Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

      It will continue to be more and more difficult for terms like these as Google properties slowly and surely dominate all results above the fold in one way or another. Your best bet is to go after smaller markets and long-tail keywords when it comes to getting traffic from Google.
      I'd have to agree. On a side note, why are you going after such broad/difficult keywords in the first place? It's extremely difficult to rank for a keyword such as car insurance..if not impossible. Not sure if this was what you were going for or not.
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      • Profile picture of the author birdman87
        Originally Posted by connorbringas View Post

        I'd have to agree. On a side note, why are you going after such broad/difficult keywords in the first place? It's extremely difficult to rank for a keyword such as car insurance..if not impossible. Not sure if this was what you were going for or not.
        That's kind of the underlying principle behind half of our traffic. Lots of user focused content etc. We do rank highly for some good keywords though.

        I'd say my keywords aren't as hard as "car insurance", but aren't far away either.

        I often rank like page 4-5 for them by default due to well designed and targetted content and at least a bit of authority. Although it does make me smile when I have mozbar on the first page and see how small our DA is compared to these HUGE companies. Customers never complain though, usually the one's that make enquiries are looking for something just like our site.

        It's not so much about the traffic. However, it's difficult to grow at the moment as the people in the office at the back are getting all the complicated and difficult to deal wth cases along with leads from other sources. Whilst I'm not complaining that we're getting a lot of leads, it makes profits very inconsistent. It also usually takes longer for things to be completed as well.

        Our aim was to have a full time self employed guy working purely on our leads but it's hard to do this because, whilst they could make a lot of money in the long term, it would be inconsistent for the first two months and we couldn't guarantee income.

        So yeah... doing it for a bit of consistancy in lead quality.

        Would otherwise just become a lead provider, but I think in the situations I'm in the customers wouldn't like that. It doesn't give a good service. It's quite open and they know who is giving the advice on each page and we say that they can contact us directly if they so choose.

        If I got paid for every lead I receive I'd be rich by now... hmph

        Next project is going to be a lot more minimalist in a much more simple induustry. It's such a good niche I could make very decent money just running PPC campaigns never mind SEO. That can be my cash cow and I can focus on this one as a much more long-term project.
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    • Profile picture of the author sadneck
      Originally Posted by Bill_Z View Post

      It will continue to be more and more difficult for terms like these as Google properties slowly and surely dominate all results above the fold in one way or another. Your best bet is to go after smaller markets and long-tail keywords when it comes to getting traffic from Google.
      This is exactly right Bill. We have been doing this for years with much success. And if you want to compete with nice little pictures in Google as google is doing to you, use video marketing. Often google will display that ever so important video result within its search results, and now you are back in business.

      Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author jesseholmes
    It seems like Google is in the day-ruining business. With every algo update and every new advertising policy I really don't think they care if they ruin people's days. It's easy not to care when you're the biggest kid on the block.

    That's why it's important to find out if the reward is worth the effort trying to rank for those keywords. If there's good traffic and money to be had, keep working at it. If the payoff isn't worth it, pack it in and look at other cheap and consistent ways to drive high converting traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author birdman87
      Originally Posted by jesseholmes View Post

      It's easy not to care when you're the biggest kid on the block.
      Google reminds me of a mafia boss from back in the day. It completely runs the neighbourhood and, if a business is doing well it barges right in and takes it own share of whatever it wants.

      As an aside, Google's been under a lot of scrutiny recently in the UK for not paying ANY tax. That's right, one of the richest (don't be evil) companies in the world is using tax avoidance schemes whilst everybody else here is broke as f**k paying extra taxes to stave of the recession whilst struggling to get by.

      Are their any big companies that actually keep their ethical back-bone once they go public? Could do with some examples to keep my positivity up.
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      • Profile picture of the author mknowles2262
        [QUOTE=birdman87;7461407]Google reminds me of a mafia boss from back in the day. It completely runs the neighbourhood and, if a business is doing well it barges right in and takes it own share of whatever it wants.

        As an aside, Google's been under a lot of scrutiny recently in the UK for not paying ANY tax. That's right, one of the richest (don't be evil) companies in the world is using tax avoidance schemes whilst everybody else here is broke as f**k paying extra taxes to stave of the recession whilst struggling to get by.

        Are their any big companies that actually keep their ethical back-bone once they go public? Could do with some examples to keep my positivity up.[/QUOTE

        While not a big fan of Google, They DO PAY...really tired of people complaining how the "rich don't pay their fair share. They use the LEGAL tax laws. If you don't like that then change the laws. Why should they pay MORE than they are LEGALLY required to
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        • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
          Originally Posted by mknowles2262 View Post

          They DO PAY...really tired of people complaining how the "rich don't pay their fair share. They use the LEGAL tax laws. If you don't like that then change the laws. Why should they pay MORE than they are LEGALLY required to
          Yes, they use the system in their businesses. And yes, G does pay. They paid something a few years ago when it was reported they squirreled away 40 to 60 billion in offshore havens to avoid paying. But they were using the system. So who's complaining...

          Paying one's fair share is subjective. Fair is subjective. Hell, depending on how high one goes, paying is subjective.

          Your advice to change the laws is cute.
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      • Profile picture of the author sunray
        Originally Posted by birdman87 View Post

        Google reminds me of a mafia boss from back in the day. It completely runs the neighbourhood and, if a business is doing well it barges right in and takes it own share of whatever it wants.

        As an aside, Google's been under a lot of scrutiny recently in the UK for not paying ANY tax. That's right, one of the richest (don't be evil) companies in the world is using tax avoidance schemes whilst everybody else here is broke as f**k paying extra taxes to stave of the recession whilst struggling to get by.

        Are their any big companies that actually keep their ethical back-bone once they go public? Could do with some examples to keep my positivity up.
        But, tell me, is it really fair to blame Google for high socialist state taxes in the UK and the most of the rest of the EU? Google is an American company, and it certainly has any right to pay the taxes exactly where it resides.

        You can also register a company in Switzerland, on the Island of Man or elsewhere whereever you can optimize your own taxes.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bewley
          Originally Posted by sunray View Post

          But, tell me, is it really fair to blame Google for high socialist state taxes in the UK and the most of the rest of the EU? Google is an American company, and it certainly has any right to pay the taxes exactly where it resides.

          You can also register a company in Switzerland, on the Island of Man or elsewhere whereever you can optimize your own taxes.
          You really think the UK is a Socialist state? We haven't had a real Socialist government since 1979. We are presently living under the most right-wing Government since WWII.
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          • Profile picture of the author birdman87
            I'm hardly even a socialist.

            If you're talking pure capitalism then the tories definitely aren't. If we were all about the free market the government wouldn't be intervening with everything.

            It feels more like socialism for the corporations and the rich than anything else. Free market capitalism means big companies pay for their mistakes and it's no easier for them to get away with stuff than it is for me.

            We don't live in a capitalist state, we live in a corporatist state.

            I will shut up now though, I promise lol. Calmed down a little bit now.

            Thanks for all the responses, negative and positive .
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          • Profile picture of the author Kiyi
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            • Profile picture of the author PayPower
              "Nil illegitimi carborundum". Don't let the bas...ds grind you down! Spread your work around. Fish in other ponds. Diversify! P.S. Your response ruined your day, not Google. Get a thicker skin
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    Hope you did not only rely on Google for traffic. Too many people rely on them and when this happens, things go down the hill for them very fast.

    I would never rely on Google or Yahoo for traffic because you never know when your site goes from page 1 listings to page 100 and no where to be seeing.

    There are other ways to drive traffic like:

    PPC
    Article marketing
    Video Marketing
    Forum marketing
    solo ads.
    Twitter PPC marketing
    Facebook PPC marketing.
    Blog commenting
    Banner ads.

    I would do all of them and never put all your eggs into one basket.
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    • Profile picture of the author ccole
      This is how Google works and unfortunately, we are unable to do anything about it as it is their website and they can do anything they want with it. No one knows what Google will do in the next few months so we must be prepared to create traffic other than using what Google is offering.

      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      Hope you did not only rely on Google for traffic. Too many people rely on them and when this happens, things go down the hill for them very fast.

      I would never rely on Google or Yahoo for traffic because you never know when your site goes from page 1 listings to page 100 and no where to be seeing.

      There are other ways to drive traffic like:

      PPC
      Article marketing
      Video Marketing
      Forum marketing
      solo ads.
      Twitter PPC marketing
      Facebook PPC marketing.
      Blog commenting
      Banner ads.

      I would do all of them and never put all your eggs into one basket.
      You got it right Talfighel. Never rely on Google for traffic because you can never win the game. We can all use the above suggestions for generating free traffic.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Like it or not, Google is a business and their goal is to keep their shareholder's happy by making lots of money.

        They set their own terms, policies, systems, procedures, and whatever else they want to do without consulting with you and I for our opinions on their business practices.

        I'm not saying I agree with their methods, but to be very candid, I think you would be hard pressed to criticize their success at making money over the short time they have been in business.

        If you don't like their customer relations . . . don't deal with them.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author rekerlolz
        Why not take advantage of the fact that Google likes to rank it's own web properties before other web properties?

        Just sayin ......
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    • Profile picture of the author pratima
      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      Hope you did not only rely on Google for traffic. Too many people rely on them and when this happens, things go down the hill for them very fast.

      I would never rely on Google or Yahoo for traffic because you never know when your site goes from page 1 listings to page 100 and no where to be seeing.

      There are other ways to drive traffic like:

      PPC
      Article marketing
      Video Marketing
      Forum marketing
      solo ads.
      Twitter PPC marketing
      Facebook PPC marketing.
      Blog commenting
      Banner ads.

      I would do all of them and never put all your eggs into one basket.
      Hello Dude,

      I want to Try some Video Marketing through PPC But could you please tell how many types of video marketing are There?

      Any help will regards .
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaolinsteve
    Although I would say I have quite a fair amount of experience regarding SEO for my latest project I don't think I will consider anything else apart from Onsite SEO. Maybe the occasional easy ranking keywords now and again but my focus (especially for next year) is all about List Building and working with others to achieve far better results than I would just on SEO.

    I will be using PPC for testing purposes and analysis but apart from that I am getting fed up with SEO too. I had an ecommerce store that was rank 4th to a number 1 keyword getting 497 searches a day, then EMD hits and I'm gone... pooof!

    Sorry to hear about your results man...
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Welcome to reality. Google has systematically removed tons of lucrative phrases from the overall pie and kept it for themselves.

    There's no growth for their ad revenues if they don't. Don't pour any more 'heart and soul' as you called into this idea. Sure, try and get traffic from them, but do a bunch of other stuff too. Otherwise those bad days will becoming bad weeks, months, and then years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Silver
    It does seem unfair, but you have to remember that its their website and they can manipulate it how they see fit.

    I know it feels good to vent your frustration, but quickly get back into action mode and start building your business to be more sustainable without having to rely on Google traffic.

    The best way to do this in my opinion is to sell in market where you can build up a list of customers and prospects who are interested in purchasing products and services over and over again.
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  • Profile picture of the author rmolina88
    SEO is dying out.

    Look for better paid traffic sources.
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    Google is a business out to make money, nothing else. Why would they limit themselves on how to make money? They would rather take money away from you, the IMer, and put all sorts of restrictions on you so that you get sick of trying to play, give up, and fork out cash for Google ads.

    You (anyone selling anything on the internet) are google's competition. THEY ARE NOT THERE TO HELP YOU DO ANYTHING, EXCEPT MAKE THEM MONEY.
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  • Profile picture of the author birdman87
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    If you can't run ads and make a profit with your product, you don't have a viable product.
    I agree. However, it would just not be possible in the niche I'm in without millions of pounds.

    Also the keywords I target are often informational and advice keywords. I'm not saying google shouldn't make profit. What annoys me is it's hypocrisy.

    It doesn't offer anything new, actually hinders those looking for quality advice and information. As I said before Many leads have commented on how they struggled to find the info or help they were looking for as all they saw was two pages of comparison tools.

    It's content is thin and other, more well established websites, do what they're doing a lot better. They certainly don't offer anything of special value and definitely, if they were any other site, wouldn't deserve such prominence in te serps. I don't think they owe me anything, I just think its abuse of their monopoly and hypocritical in te context of what they say they expect from other webmasters.

    Ho hum... I'll get over it I suppose
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  • Profile picture of the author KenThompson
    I knew how this thread would progress. It's certainly not the first one of its kind, nor will it be the last.

    I think the OP is smart enough to realize the points made by those who sound very much like Google apologists.
    We all know Google can do what they want on their site. As for "the only" way for them to... survive, pay their bills, and find a way to get through life is by advertising. But please, when they stash away possibly 60 B into their safe harbor piggy bank, pretty tough to feel any sympathy for their (hypocritical) practices.

    And the OP, rightly upset about it. You would be, too. He'll move on and find alternate means to get traffic.

    So let him vent a little, if he's venting. I don't know.

    Maybe you're tired of people like the OP posting these and similar stories. But I would guess a lot of people are tired of those who come to rescue Google's image and defence. Of course you can do that. So nothing will change...

    We'll revisit this another day, I'm sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author FranksToys
    Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast, especially when your business (website) is dependent upon a third party (Google) you really don't have a lot of options.

    I always recommend divesrifying when possible so that things like this aren't as painful.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    It's not difficult to figure out Google is interested in turning a profit, I mean after all they're listed on NASDAQ.
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    • Profile picture of the author aygabtu
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      It's not difficult to figure out Google is interested in turning a profit, I mean after all they're listed on NASDAQ.
      They used to be different, or at least gave that impression. Sure they were always out to make money, but they used to have morals and were focused on the best user experience. Now it seems to be all about the bottom line and earnings growth, not just earnings. They don't make much money on organic traffic. They want more and more PPC.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by aygabtu View Post

        They used to be different, or at least gave that impression. Sure they were always out to make money, but they used to have morals and were focused on the best user experience. Now it seems to be all about the bottom line and earnings growth, not just earnings. They don't make much money on organic traffic. They want more and more PPC.

        Isn't that the goal in business, to prosper?

        If a business is only earning the same profit they earned 10 years ago, that's a pretty crappy business to have. Google is a public company on the stock market, profit increases YOY or they lose financial backing from shareholders. That's the way the business world works when you depend on investors, constantly show progress to shareholders or they'll bail & find something better to invest their money.

        Google does make money indirectly from organic SERPs, organic SERPs is Googles version of content, without organic they're screwed for generating SERP traffic.
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        • Profile picture of the author webby0031
          Once the general population rely on something and it helps humanity grow and progress its no longer a for Profit business

          It should be owned by the public. There is a tipping point and google is almost there
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by webby0031 View Post

            Once the general population rely on something and it helps humanity grow and progress its no longer a for Profit business

            It should be owned by the public. There is a tipping point and google is almost there

            LMAO!

            Hilarious stuff.

            Everyone isn't living in North Korea.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by webby0031 View Post

            Once the general population rely on something and it helps humanity grow and progress its no longer a for Profit business

            It should be owned by the public. There is a tipping point and google is almost there
            Are you freaking kidding me? That is just silly. Guess we should turn Microsoft and Apple over to the public too.

            The NFL is probably big enough. Turn them over.

            Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JP Morgan... You are all out of business too. The public now owns you.

            Ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author brettb
    Who cares about Google?

    In 2013 my best traffic will come from Facebook, PPC and my own mailing lists.

    Panda and Penguin should have warned you about relying on Google.

    Anyway, Google are killing their own search engine. It's OK for them to go on massive anti-spam hunts, but yesterday I looked for a VPN service and #1 was a 7 year old post from a tech blog. Yeah, given that VPN information changes daily, I'd expect to see that at #1!!! The door is now wide open for Apple or Facebook to build their own search (or just buy DuckDuckGo).
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    • Profile picture of the author Cosmit
      on one of my sites that i've written great content on, for one of the keywords, google has decided to drop me outta the first 10 pages. but guess what, one of the hubpages that i created that has semi-decent, much less quality content with no backlinks is ranked on page 1 for it. it seems to me that google either purposely ranks trash or drops out any site that has "unnatural looking backlinks" leaving the results with trash.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      Is this fair?

      That's a crazy question.

      Google is a business. A large, publicly traded company who looks out
      for their customers and shareholders. Why do they care about you?

      Fair? I don't get that.

      That's like grandma and her swap meet knitted scarves going to
      walmart and demanding to have her stuff sold, and up front!

      Sorry granny. Life's unfair. Walmart does not owe you shelf space,
      nor is it unfair for THEM to decide which scarves they carry.

      Google owes nobody shelf space.

      You people think google is not a business but a charity organization
      that operates non-profit.

      I guess people would be surprised that manufacturers PAY to have
      their items on the shelves, how high up, and where in the store.


      The best spots go to the highest bidder. Go into any chain grocery
      store. For a lot of items, the ones at eye level will be more expensive
      than the ones on the very bottom, or out of reach. And someone
      greased the owners for this privilege. So unfair.

      If google ruins your day, you don't have a real business.

      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Hilal Shakarchi
      My site had a pagerank of 3 and I wanted to sell it on Flippa but now the pagerank is gone and my website has lost all value......
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      • Profile picture of the author realc4ever
        I think a person should implement SEO, but they shouldn't solely rely on it.
        An earlier post, someone mentioned they use videos, articles, forums,blogs,etc,etc to promote their site and not rely on SEO only.

        I think from now on, people should implement SEO on their website, but not focus on it so intently.

        You should focus intently on creating value. If you create value, then people will also share and promote your site.

        I remember when you could just slap up some keywords and you're in the top 10, but those days are long gone.


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  • Profile picture of the author tech84
    Why are people still bashing on Analytics?

    If Google wanted to get data about your site they can get it without Analytics.
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    • Profile picture of the author birdman87
      I've slep on it and feel a little better now.

      I will continue on. Yes I do have another idea for something that would work brilliantly for ppc. A very niche, high profit, low competition market. Going to work on it over Xmas.

      As far as my finance site is concerned, I will stop focusing so much on these money keywords and carry on just writing a lot of in depth content. Moreau more than half our traffic comes from long tail keywords we never even were attempting to rank for. In a way we benefit from the fact that nearly all the page one and page two competitors have very thin content.

      The frustrating thing was I spent the last three months working my arse off going after a specific market. Google do this and now I feel it was a waste of three month of very hard work.

      Just got to keep digging and digging until I find gold I guess.
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    • Profile picture of the author cooler1
      Originally Posted by tech84 View Post

      Why are people still bashing on Analytics?

      If Google wanted to get data about your site they can get it without Analytics.
      Same reason why people say man didn't land on the moon. They get a buzz from conspiracy.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by tech84 View Post

      Why are people still bashing on Analytics?

      If Google wanted to get data about your site they can get it without Analytics.
      How? They aren't mind readers. If you don't give them access to track visitors on your site they don't have them.

      They still have Chrome and Toolbars but Analytics or Adsense give them a complete picture.
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      • Profile picture of the author vdek
        Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

        How? They aren't mind readers. If you don't give them access to track visitors on your site they don't have them.

        They still have Chrome and Toolbars but Analytics or Adsense give them a complete picture.
        How do you think Alexa tracks websites without actually running any code on the site itself? Statistics are a bitch, but they are generally correct.
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        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by vdek View Post

          How do you think Alexa tracks websites without actually running any code on the site itself? Statistics are a bitch, but they are generally correct.
          Alexa uses a tool bar. They make estimates about site visitors.

          They don't have much real data though. They won't have your referrers. They won't have a clue about the activities of anyone who doesn't use the Alexa Toolbar.

          Sure, Google can still make estimates. But why give them ALL your data for very little in return?

          Once you submit to Google Webmaster Tools and Google Analytics you've given Google a TON of info about your website. At that point, they know too much.

          Since a lot of my sites are affiliate sites, I don't do it. Google isn't paying me so I'm not helping them build a complete picture of my websites.
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  • Profile picture of the author jurky
    The key is in the longtails. Just fire up the Keyword tool, and after you find your desired keyword, check the "Only show ideas closely related to my search terms ".

    Then, build a title around all those keywords. This is the trick that I learned from Keyword Academy, and it works very well. Over 50% of the traffic you'll get is from those longtails, and not to mention, you practically don't even have to do any SEO, although it's always good to throw in a backlink here and there.
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    Just check out my Google+ profile, that's all :) WHAT? You were expecting some kind of a sales pitch ???

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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Don't get the point

    I tried the searches the OP is going on about. Did anyone else? All of them made perfect sense from a user standpoint, credit cards - yeah I would want a comparison link there. Car insurance? yep

    Thing about it is if you are a real company and really do offer those things you can contact them for inclusion. So wheres the great foul? Last I checked Google isn't selling any of those things.

    Honestly its a thread done better than most but almost all the times the complaints come down to - Google should give my site that spot.
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    • Profile picture of the author birdman87
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Don't get the point

      I tried the searches the OP is going on about. Did anyone else? All of them made perfect sense from a user standpoint, credit cards - yeah I would want a comparison link there. Car insurance? yep

      Thing about it is if you are a real company and really do offer those things you can contact them for inclusion. So wheres the great foul? Last I checked Google isn't selling any of those things.

      Honestly its a thread done better than most but almost all the times the complaints come down to - Google should give my site that spot.

      Just try typing "mortgage broker" as one example into google.co.uk. Unless things have changed since last time, google price comparison tool comes up at the top of the organic listings in google along with a wikipedia entry, out of date forum advice and another price comparison tool.

      People are generally looking for a mortgage broker because they need advice about something, want a mortgage broker they can trust to do the work for them or have more complicated personal circumstances and a price comparison tool wouldn't be able to take them into account.

      This is one example where, often, the local results really do justify being at the top of the page. Many people would like to use a local broker, someone that can visit them and they feel more comfortable knowing they're nearby.

      The only mortgage broker they're going to get from a price comparison site is an absolutely random one to finish the mortgage off for them on certain broker mortgage deals. They might be anywhere around the country and most likely one that has paid a lot of money for this lead (this often means that they will be less willing to go out of the way for the customer in a difficult situation as they'd sooner send the lead back and also, some brokers will offset the cost of the lead onto the customer).

      Mortgage broker is actually a keyword I haven't really bothered targeting I'm just using it for example purposes.


      A second point is that for keywords like "self employed mortgages" ( again not something I'm specifically trying to target), although it looks like a price comparison topic I'll bet that most of the info these people are looking for is to do with eligibility. It's a lot harder for the self employed to qualify for mortgages. A lot of questions are to do with things like whether self cert mortgages still exist or how long they will have to show earnings for to qualify for a mortgage.

      Also, mortgage search engines are often very generalised. Just because it says you can get a mortgage it doesn't mean you can. It is a really complicated industry and mortgage elibility depends on a great many variables.


      There are definitely keywords that do justify price comparison tools I would 100% agree with that. Companies like moneysupermarket have been around for years, are household names advertising all the time and pay a fortune to advertise for the top spots. If it was anybody else they would have to build up trust and authority and it would be very hard to place themselves consistently in a specific spot on the serps/adwords, never mind customising their own ads to make them stand out as much as possible. I still feel it's hypocritical of Google to just throw itself in their wherever they want to and bypass their own algorithms to achieve the ideal position.

      As an aside, they were critisised for something else as well. The company they purchased all of this off were using black hat SEO tactics on it's own site. Google gave it a two week manual penalty after taking it over and then put it back in higher positions. Not only that, they didn't even change the things on the site that they penalised it for in the first place.

      I'm not an anti-google sour-faced SEO guy who's lost his business. I still rank well and get a lot of traffic for a lot of long-tail stuff and I think I could loose all my big keyword rankings tomorrow and still make a profit. I don't primarily aim to target and back-link big keywords as user-focused content works for me just as well.

      I'm not angry at Google for personally going out of their way to crush the small guy, but I'm also under no illusions that it's this "don't be evil" do gooder company anymore. It's hard to listen to their advice when they don't even take it themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by birdman87 View Post

        People are generally looking for a mortgage broker because they need advice about something, want a mortgage broker they can trust to do the work for them or have more complicated personal circumstances and a price comparison tool wouldn't be able to take them into account.
        This is one example where, often, the local results really do justify being at the top of the page. Many people would like to use a local broker, someone that can visit them and they feel more comfortable knowing they're nearby.

        The only mortgage broker they're going to get from a price comparison site is an absolutely random one to finish the mortgage off for them on certain broker mortgage deals.
        Look at it closer Birdman. In the form you enter in your post code so that you are hooked up with a local adviser. So it does connect you with someone local


        A second point is that for keywords like "self employed mortgages" ( again not something I'm specifically trying to target), although it looks like a price comparison topic I'll bet that most of the info these people are looking for is to do with eligibility.
        Perhaps but the number one position for that term is nothing but a quote form as well so its the same issue regardless. I see no foul there. Look the time to complain was when Google put adwords result ahead of organic results and that happened years ago, adding one more spot hardly makes a difference. Google is the same ole we will corrupt search results if we get paid to do it but you are wrong if you "corrupt" it so that you can make money. Nothing new.


        I'm not angry at Google for personally going out of their way to crush the small guy, but I'm also under no illusions that it's this "don't be evil" do gooder company anymore. It's hard to listen to their advice when they don't even take it themselves.
        I got you but I guess my issue is that I don't see where they have ever been the do gooder company and certainly not for the years since they put the real top spots up to the highest bidder.
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  • Profile picture of the author cnlinkbuilder
    Wonder when they'll move this over to the U.S. sites now. I also am curious about how successful they might be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    That's the game we play.

    As they say:

    if you can't stand the heat...
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  • Profile picture of the author Vivers
    Man, we all have been here I would say. Sucks, but that's the game I guess
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Google started pulling really screwy moves after their stock almost tanked from lost advertising revenue.

    They will continue to push the envelope even in areas that are legally borderline or questionable because they are now between a rock and a hard place, i.e...the law and investors.

    If I was Microsoft, I would invest all of my revenue in efforts to expose SEO tactics that allow marketers to manipulate Google's search rankings.

    In war, many times, you don't have to control or attack the enemy directly, you just have to attack or control who controls them.

    ...and this is corporate war.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxNiche
    Relying on google for long term income is not recommended.You need to build your business with ppc and build your list for long term income.
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  • Profile picture of the author wlasikiewicz
    I know, google ban people from adsense for not displaying ads properly when their site is the biggest affiliate site there is and there advertisers are ok with that? i dont use adwords for that reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author cooler1
      Originally Posted by wlasikiewicz View Post

      I know, google ban people from adsense for not displaying ads properly when their site is the biggest affiliate site there is and there advertisers are ok with that? i dont use adwords for that reason.
      How do you mean not displaying ads properly? Are you saying Google shouldn't have rules on how publishers should display ads? That would hinder Adwords advertisers surely.
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