SEO clients in 2013

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freecache

How do you plan in finding your seo clients in 2013. Lately I am struggling with this, there are all sorts of people offering 100-200 bucks packages, which of course it just does not work for real seo, on the long run.

The serps are full of people on page 2-10 that are trying to rank and who can't. Contact them. My advice to you is to stay away from places where low priced SEO is offered when you are looking for quality customers. Yes that includes WF.

Although most of the clients I have got here are great I can tell you that at least 20% of them have been nothing but frustration and time drains. They want to rank overnight despite you telling them beforehand it will take weeks and months and they will resent paying you any real money for it because their measuring stick is the $100 or below $100 services they see. It doesn't even matter that they destroyed a previous web site with the cheap services (most that come to me from here have). Its all they know plus to be honest they don't have a realistic business model that allows for any time of investment so they want even need to see instant returns but they are too proud to admit it to you going in.

As you indicated good SEO costs money now. Google has been artful of going after low quality and sinking it like the titanic. There really is only way of offering low priced services

Spin blast and/or overload. Its a business necessity. Whenever you lower the price you have to make it up in volume.

Google has gone after and tanked most all of that (spinning is under fire, mass links will get you tanked and penalized and network pages with overloaded links are hunted and deindexed) and what it has not got yet will be the subject of more algo updates in 2013. However you need to understand.

Most people do NOT get that and do not want to get it either.

Quality nowadays is something everyone SAYS they are after but they want it to be packaged and delivered at the cost of low quality work. Most people on WF do not care a wit about quality. If you use spun content and rank they will cheer but later when an algo change or refresh hits their site to hades act like they didn't see it and approve it.

Of course this all assumes that you wish to offer quality SEO . If you don't then you can find most if not all your customers on forums.

The best business model for forums are selling link packages that may or may not rank the customer for any length of time. In fact if you concentrate on link techniques that will cause the site to rise in the serps fast and then crash fast later the world will be yours on forums. You will get rave reviews and then if something happens later to your customers you can blame Google for destroying people businesses or even the customer for either not buying more of your services or doing something to their site that caused it. Keep your prices low, automate most if not everything with spun content and you will be golden. You have little risk because low quality is easy to get and easy to go.

So you have decisions to make before you even go looking for customers. The first step to answering where to get customers is to determine what kind of customers you are looking for. Its great to find good paying business clients. You have less hassle your fulfillment is easy and you only deal with solid people. You make good money too and if you have any ethics you take pride that you have provided a service that matters long term to the customers.

However That assumes that the customer even has a mind to look long term. IF they don't then you should NOT offer quality service to them. They should get and only deserve Mass link services. Even if they are convinced to buy your higher priced quality SEO they will resent it (in my experience around 20-25% of the time). I have even ranked sites for these kinds of customers top 3 and some still resent it thinking after the fact that they could have had it done for cheaper. Find out what kind of fish you want to catch. If you want fish that think long term look to the deep ocean if you want lots of fish that swim aimlessly around lost then head out to a canal at high tide.

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Backlinko

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The serps are full of people on page 2-10 that are trying to rank and who can't. Contact them. My advice to you is to stay away from places where low priced SEO is offered when you are looking for quality customers. Yes that includes WF.

Although most of the clients I have got here are great I can tell you that at least 20% of them have been nothing but frustration and time drains. They want to rank overnight despite you telling them beforehand it will take weeks and months and they will resent paying you any real money for it because their measuring stick is the $100 or below $100 services they see. It doesn't even matter that they destroyed a previous web site with the cheap services (most that come to me from here have). Its all they know plus to be honest they don't have a realistic business model that allows for any time of investment so they want even need to see instant returns but they are too proud to admit it to you going in.

As you indicated good SEO costs money now. Google has been artful of going after low quality and sinking it like the titanic. There really is only way of offering low priced services

Spin blast and/or overload. Its a business necessity. Whenever you lower the price you have to make it up in volume.

Google has gone after and tanked most all of that (spinning is under fire, mass links will get you tanked and penalized and network pages with overloaded links are hunted and deindexed) and what it has not got yet will be the subject of more algo updates in 2013. However you need to understand.

Most people do NOT get that and do not want to get it either.

Quality nowadays is something everyone SAYS they are after but they want it to be packaged and delivered at the cost of low quality work. Most people on WF do not care a wit about quality. If you use spun content and rank they will cheer but later when an algo change or refresh hits their site to hades act like they didn't see it and approve it.

Of course this all assumes that you wish to offer quality SEO . If you don't then you can find most if not all your customers on forums.

The best business model for forums are selling link packages that may or may not rank the customer for any length of time. In fact if you concentrate on link techniques that will cause the site to rise in the serps fast and then crash fast later the world will be yours on forums. You will get rave reviews and then if something happens later to your customers you can blame Google for destroying people businesses or even the customer for either not buying more of your services or doing something to their site that caused it. Keep your prices low, automate most if not everything with spun content and you will be golden. You have little risk because low quality is easy to get and easy to go.

So you have decisions to make before you even go looking for customers. The first step to answering where to get customers is to determine what kind of customers you are looking for. Its great to find good paying business clients. You have less hassle your fulfillment is easy and you only deal with solid people. You make good money too and if you have any ethics you take pride that you have provided a service that matters long term to the customers.

However That assumes that the customer even has a mind to look long term. IF they don't then you should NOT offer quality service to them. They should get and only deserve Mass link services. Even if they are convinced to buy your higher priced quality SEO they will resent it (in my experience around 20-25% of the time). I have even ranked sites for these kinds of customers top 3 and some still resent it thinking after the fact that they could have had it done for cheaper. Find out what kind of fish you want to catch. If you want fish that think long term look to the deep ocean if you want lots of fish that swim aimlessly around lost then head out to a canal at high tide.

This is great advice.

There are tons of people stuck in 2007 who think that $100 in link packages will rank them.

Those days are LONG gone. If you want to rank for the long-term then you need to spend money...and lots of it. Period.

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Clint Faber

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

The serps are full of people on page 2-10 that are trying to rank and who can't. Contact them. My advice to you is to stay away from places where low priced SEO is offered when you are looking for quality customers. Yes that includes WF. ...

Originally Posted by Backlinko

This is great advice.

There are tons of people stuck in 2007 who think that $100 in link packages will rank them.

Those days are LONG gone. If you want to rank for the long-term then you need to spend money...and lots of it. Period.

There is no static situation that makes this valid, but there are certain instances that you can receive top-notch value for such a discounted price. You see this startups providing access to their system at a discounted price or for free until they build a reputation are establish themselves.

You can find this with SEO providers that although have a rare skill set do not possess the market reputation, thus throwing them in the same situation as a startup offering their services at a discounted price in order to build up a reputation our brand before moving their price point up to a more suitable level.

In fact, if we need another example you can see this with the WSO's that are offered here at a discounted price, and then raised up to the maximum market value when going to the broad market after establishing sales statistics to attract affiliates and joint venture deals.

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

There is no static situation that makes this valid, but there are certain instances that you can receive top-notch value for such a discounted price. You see this startups providing access to their system at a discounted price or for free until they build a reputation are establish themselves.

Its far more valid than what you just wrote. If you look in the marketplace you will see repeatedly that your premise is false. Please provide a single seller that provides quality for a low quality price. The metrics of quality are clear. They provide all unique content not spun stuff, they get links on real Pr pages (not based on the home page where the link does not appear) with very low Obl that look natural on pages that do not share completely different subjects. They do on page SEO as well as off page. They don't fall back on hundreds if not thousands of mass created links that are now known to tank sites. I will bet you cannot even point to one cheap provider that holds up to scrutiny.

In fact, if we need another example you can see this with the WSO's that are offered here at a discounted price, and then raised up to the maximum market value when going to the broad market after establishing sales statistics to attract affiliates and joint venture deals.

Sorry but you have no clue what is being discussed. Its not a matter of "moving their price point up". Its a matter of the kind of SEO done. WSO sellers always try and insinuate that the only difference between quality and low quality is price (and they do so while blowing a whole lot of smoke in their sig offers). It isn't. its whats done. Is a seller of a $47 for first page placement service going to use all original written content for each client and in his niche? Do they analyze the page and correct their customers pages? Will they do exhaustive keyword and competition analysis for that price? Will they supply say a PR5 link with only five other backlinks on it That they can guarantee will stick? This has nothing to do with raising prices it has to do with the economic reality that certain services take more time and therefore more money.

The providers themselves have nothing to do with it. Their price has nothing to do with it. Its the level of service they provide for the money.

and frankly your whole premise is off. If someone is new in SEO and has no rep they do not create a system for low quality work to masses. Yes they may do a few jobs here and there on the cheap but not on forums and not to masses. The people doing that are not looking yo move on. they are looking to make up in volume what they lack in price.

Its not a smart move anyway if its temporary so they are not going to be the brightest SEOs either. You would be better approaching real business and offering to do free work until they rank or even do pay for performance because they at least will end up paying well much more often.

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Clint Faber

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

.....

OK how about your services Mike and I beg to differ with your hole statement, but I believe you misunderstood what you call a "premise".

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Mike Anthony

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Clint Faber

OK how about your services Mike and I beg to differ with your hole statement,.

Clint you beg to differ with almost every good SEO principle. Whats new? You still to this day push the idea of people being able to rank in Google within an hour using your software.

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Clint Faber

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Clint you beg to differ with almost every good SEO principle. Whats new? You still to this day push the idea of people being able to rank in Google within an hour using your software.

No I beg to differ with "your" statements "Mike". No need to mistreatment things here.

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Mike Anthony 11 years ago

Thanks Clint. We have your vote of disagreement with absolutely no facts or reasoning to back it up.

Like I said what else is new?
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- Clint Faber 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Thanks Clint. We have your vote of disagreement with absolutely no facts or reasoning to back it up.
  
  Like I said what else is new?
  
  What vote Mike? I do not think there is any voting going on right now. Back what up Mike? I gave you an example even though you misunderstood my post. There is a lot new, but I don't see the relevance here...
  
  Thanks
  
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nimonjo18

11 years ago

I agree with you Freecache, Every SEO Person is getting this type of problem because there are many companies are offering a lot of stuff in just few dollars by using softwares. But New visitors have no idea about this things they just get that service and then it can be hurted.

If want to rank well in search engines you should pay more and then u can get more.

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WebMarketer1 11 years ago

I agree..you pay more you get more,,
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zaccks

11 years ago

SEO is and will always be the best traffic source of marketers. google update has affected many websites negatively so you should expect to get more SEO clients for the coming year.

Invest more money and time in searching for more clients.

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Jamie Harp

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Freecache

How do you plan in finding your seo clients in 2013. Lately I am struggling with this, there are all sorts of people offering 100-200 bucks packages, which of course it just does not work for real seo, on the long run.

It's so nice to see that other people on this forum do understand that "high quality" seo is not cheap. I personally would find it impossible to offer a good service for under $400/month and even then it takes a few months for me to break even.

I personally deal with mainly local business's and I start by emailing them to let them know I am sending a proposal in the post. I keep the email short sweet with the whole purpose of getting them to wonder what I am offering. This is to make sure they actually bother reading my proposal.

In the proposal I go on to explain how many people are looking for their business monthly, how much they are missing out on and how much more their competitors are getting due to higher rankings.

I then go on to explain why quality is important; The networks I build for them are not just for SEO they are for traffic generation, niche domination and help build the credibility of the business. I look at backlinks as a side effect of the marketing stratergy I adopt. "explain this too them very carefully"

I then go on to explain that they would need to contact me for a price as it's impossible to say without knowing their desired requirements.

Offer to take them out too lunch or something, somewhere with a relaxed enviroment.

----------

Regarding time-frames I usually put it into stages, i.e. 3-4 days to plan, 3-4 weeks to build the network etc...

It's a very long-winded way of getting clients but the ones you do get will understand that quality takes time and money.

Like somebody mentioned earlyier the ones that want a cheap and fast service are an absolute pain in the arse.

P.S. sorry about my grammar and spelling I've been awake for 19 hours :/

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nik0

Banned 11 years ago

Oh what shall I say, links from only relevant sites is not doable, there are 100's of different niches out there so that means I would need many 1000's of high PR domains, hard to make such investment back with a $100 package.

Then do I have to spend an hour or two on someone's site when my hourly is around $80,-, and that for a $99 package, ain't gonna happen either obvious.

But do I:

- provide unique content that surrounds each link? Yep
- are the OBL's low? Yep
- Do I use any automated software? Nope
- Do the sites have good strength where we place the links? Yep

Well, then what more could someone wish for such budget. I know at least 100 providers at this forum that charge the same or more and that only use spun content and back links with zero strength.

Guess cheap effective SEO is still possible, people should just not expect that they get the full package that others charge $500+/month for. (with full package I mean onpage SEO and KW research included).

Sometimes I'm even thinking to quit offering this cheap link building and utilize my network only for private uses. I just spend a good amount on a network of 100 sites to rent it out to 20 people for $99/month, add the costs of hosting, setup costs, people cancelling after 1 month if they don't rank within a week so link removal costs so in the end it would leave me with like $1200/month if I'm lucky. Look how many affiliate sites I could rank for myself with such network, pretty sure I far exceed that amount of renting.

Why would I quit? Cause I rank people for a few hundred bucks that make $100+/month per site, that's not a bad ROI, and for me the costs are even less obvious, I could make my money back the same month.

Obvious I won't quit offering SEO services as I make a very good income from it so it would be plain stupid to pull the plug, but I'm definitely focusing on ranking my own sites (as you've seen from the several threads that I started lately) instead of solely ranking clients. Leaving to much money on the table by not doing so.

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Jamie Harp

11 years ago

The thing is it's so hard dealing with low-cost clients as many of them are impatient and unrealisitic which leads to a further problem. They are expecting more from a service than a local hotel would paying you $650/month.

If I ever come up with a secure and stable way of offering cheaper services I probably would but for now I just don't see how that's possible unless you offer partial services i.e. something that's not likely to rank a site on it's own.

I mean i saw a bloke on the WSO section offering page one guaranteed for $47?!?!? Yeah i could do the same thing but you would only be there a week Lol

Originally Posted by nik0

Oh what shall I say, links from only relevant sites is not doable, there are 100's of different niches out there so that means I would need many 1000's of high PR domains, hard to make such investment back with a $100 package.

Then do I have to spend an hour or two on someone's site when my hourly is around $80,-, and that for a $99 package, ain't gonna happen either obvious.

But do I:

- provide unique content that surrounds each link? Yep
- are the OBL's low? Yep
- Do I use any automated software? Nope
- Do the sites have good strength where we place the links? Yep

Well, then what more could someone wish for such budget. I know at least 100 providers at this forum that charge the same or more and that only use spun content and back links with zero strength.

Guess cheap effective SEO is still possible, people should just not expect that they get the full package that others charge $500+/month for. (with full package I mean onpage SEO and KW research included).

Sometimes I'm even thinking to quit offering this cheap link building and utilize my network only for private uses. I just spend a good amount on a network of 100 sites to rent it out to 20 people for $99/month, add the costs of hosting, setup costs, people cancelling after 1 month if they don't rank within a week so link removal costs so in the end it would leave me with like $1200/month if I'm lucky. Look how many affiliate sites I could rank for myself with such network, pretty sure I far exceed that amount of renting.

Why would I quit? Cause I rank people for a few hundred bucks that make $100+/month per site, that's not a bad ROI, and for me the costs are even less obvious, I could make my money back the same month.

Obvious I won't quit offering SEO services as I make a very good income from it so it would be plain stupid to pull the plug, but I'm definitely focusing on ranking my own sites (as you've seen from the several threads that I started lately) instead of solely ranking clients. Leaving to much money on the table by not doing so.

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nik0

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Jamie Harp

The thing is it's so hard dealing with low-cost clients as many of them are impatient and unrealisitic which leads to a further problem. They are expecting more from a service than a local hotel would paying you $650/month.

If I ever come up with a secure and stable way of offering cheaper services I probably would but for now I just don't see how that's possible unless you offer partial services i.e. something that's not likely to rank a site on it's own.

I mean i saw a bloke on the WSO section offering page one guaranteed for $47?!?!? Yeah i could do the same thing but you would only be there a week Lol

Clients are not that nasty as some seem to claim, from all of my clients in my monthly there are maybe 1-2 that require a little more attention and there is always a fixed % that cancels within the same month, so I assume that is cause they expect results within 1-2 weeks.

For the rest I have regularly people who e-mail me why there back links are not showing up 2.5 week after they signed up, well the TAT is 2-3 weeks so often the first link is just build by then. But that's always explainable and then they seem to be fine. Mostly I get an email like oh ok, thanks for explaining.

I saw that guy for $47 guaranteed page one as well, but it's only mentioned in the title of his thread and not anywhere within the sales thread, and if you look at the links that he sells, Senuke campaigns if I remember correctly then we all should know enough.

The most nasty clients are the ones that bought for example a $19 package or that rent 2 or 3 PR3 links for less then 10 bucks a month, obvious I quit doing that right away cause OMG, numerous e-mails, tons of explaining to do and for what lol.

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Ndot India

11 years ago

You can find the best SEO companies by seeing their previous work and also by checking the ranking of that keywords.

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Soubhik

11 years ago

Search the yellow pages,your local directory for business owners and just make cold call with your genuine proposal, donot make a straight sales pitch rather try to understand each individual business and offer customized packages.Every business wants sales,its just that they are not aware its called "seo".

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basenepal

11 years ago

The best business model for forums are selling link packages that may or may not rank the customer for any length of time. In fact if you concentrate on link techniques that will cause the site to rise in the serps fast and then crash fast later the world will be yours on forums. You will get rave reviews and then if something happens later to your customers you can blame Google for destroying people businesses or even the customer for either not buying more of your services or doing something to their site that caused it. Keep your prices low, automate most if not everything with spun content and you will be golden. You have little risk because low quality is easy to get and easy to go.

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anabolicpharmaeu 11 years ago

So guys you think all offer that are nomral cca 80-100$ month are not ok?

so you need to spend around 500$ month minimum for SEO?

i open total new site ,so i now do research and looking for some good SEO who can help me to get my site up asap..
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LiftMyRank

11 years ago

Yes, there is a problem with pricing perception, I think that's because there's an endless supply of SEO wannabee's promising the world for less the $100, so people think you can rank for anything for less than that, when all of us that's been doing this for years know what they're getting. Heck, I've even seen guys selling SEO that don't know the difference between do and no follow, so to separate yourself from the pack you really need something special to stand out, I myself have started posting regular ranking updates in my sales thread showing real results from campaigns I currently have going, so far it seems to set me apart compared to those with nothing more than nice sales page graphics and a license to SEnuke.

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Clint Faber

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Moore

Yes, there is a problem with pricing perception, I think that's because there's an endless supply of SEO wannabee's promising the world for less the $100, so people think you can rank for anything for less than that, when all of us that's been doing this for years know what they're getting. Heck, I've even seen guys selling SEO that don't know the difference between do and no follow, so to separate yourself from the pack you really need something special to stand out, I myself have started posting regular ranking updates in my sales thread showing real results from campaigns I currently have going, so far it seems to set me apart compared to those with nothing more than nice sales page graphics and a license to SEnuke.

Absolutely agree with you 100%

This is something over time, customers will begin to realize and develop that filter. You, you will be done to go deeper than the sales page promises and guarantees and start noticing value.

Your Action strategy In which you post your rankings are a brilliant demonstration of transparency that makes it even easier for customers recognize your brand as value. This is what we strive to do ever day.

Marketing needs to be congruent with the product..

1: Have Results driven services as a product.
2: Have your basics in place such as sales copy graphics and branding material.
3: Demonstrate your product which of course is the results of your service.

I believe you're recognizing that many services do not do this...

I believe the problem lies in the fact that many are providing service driven products yet marketing as results driven. But this is completely understandable to a certain degree as there are conflicts of demand and expectations.

For us at Topiaservices Many of the results we are able to provide our clients are protected by confidentiality agreements. Se we demonstrate our value by making it very clear that we are a result driven service while still maintaining the delivery of a baseline service as a product.

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Hansons

11 years ago

If their price is unbelievable then don't go with them.

There is one more idea that is using freelancers from any freelancer sites, you have option to check their rating and you can decide if they are helpful to you or not.

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