How are new sites supposed to make it?

by chris_87 38 replies
Let me preface this by saying I am new to SEO, but from my understanding it seems to be becoming increasingly difficult to rank your website through organic searches.

Lets say you just created a new website. Even if you are laser focused in a specific niche, with unique content and proper on page optimization it will be difficult to get ranked.

This is due to the emphasis on back links making it difficult for new sites. Backlinks seems to be what propels you to the front page of google. Unless you have a pre-existing network to do some guest blogging, ask for backlinks etc. it can be difficult to get quality backlinks to get your site, especially when you are new.

Let me know if I am off base here, I am just trying to understand SEO better but it seems to be difficult. I am doing SEO for my own local business, and its still taking plenty of effort to rank.
#search engine optimization #make #sites #supposed
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  • Profile picture of the author micksss
    What type of local business are you running and how much competition is in your area? For starters, proper Google places and citations are important for local seo, along with any local business listing/directories.
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    • Profile picture of the author chris_87
      Originally Posted by micksss View Post

      What type of local business are you running and how much competition is in your area? For starters, proper Google places and citations are important for local seo.
      Thanks for your reply, I am not trying to turn this into a discussion about my business specific situation. But rather in broader terms, from what I have read and experiencing first hand, it seems very difficult for newer sites to get ranked unless they have an existing backlink network in place.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Tovey
        It's always been difficult.
        But before, you just paid an indian company to spam you with crappy links.
        Fortunately, this is a thing of the past.

        I personally think it's easier now as all of the useless spam technique lovers have given up. If you put in effort, you'll get results.
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  • Profile picture of the author CleanSEO
    Banned
    Blue,

    It is hard, your niche is tough but not impossible. Right now it's overwhelming. I think you just realized how big of a commitment doing it yourself is going to be. You will need lots of content, lots of citations and lots of links to overcome your competitor because he is firmly established online and offline. You have a good base of information now, you know most of what you need to know, now it's just a matter of doing the work.

    We will all be here along the way, did you get my email?

    -Dolly
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    If you have a legit site, it's not too difficult to get links, doesn't matter how old the site is.

    If you have an MFA, Amazon scraped page, squeeze page, etc... then sure, your going to struggle to get links, unless your good at blasting & taking whatever $hit links stick.
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    • Profile picture of the author chris_87
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      If you have a legit site, it's not too difficult to get links, doesn't matter how old the site is.
      For the legitimate sites out there, what are you preferred methods of getting back links? Blogging etc.

      Originally Posted by CleanSEO View Post

      Blue,
      We will all be here along the way, did you get my email?
      -Dolly
      Yup! Responding now, thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author online only
        Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post

        For the legitimate sites out there, what are you preferred methods of getting back links? Blogging etc.
        Asking links from different webmasters, sending out emails, guest posting on popular sites etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author rjames
          I set up my own high PR blog networks to send links to my sites...works great, but you really need to know what you are doing...
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        • Profile picture of the author chris_87
          Originally Posted by online only View Post

          Asking links from different webmasters, sending out emails, guest posting on popular sites etc.
          I see these methods suggested quite a lot. But especially when your site is new, how do you offer something of value for the web master (or guest posting on the blog) in return for them linking back to your site?

          I don't see why someone would want to do that unless you can offer something in return. In the case of guest posting I suppose it would be a quality article.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post

            I see these methods suggested quite a lot. But especially when your site is new, how do you offer something of value for the web master (or guest posting on the blog) in return for them linking back to your site?

            I don't see why someone would want to do that unless you can offer something in return. In the case of guest posting I suppose it would be a quality article.
            Easy way to build links
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            • Profile picture of the author chris_87
              When posting on other peoples blogs, how do you link back to your site tastefully? Obviously any comment you write up should add value, whether its a thoughtful question on the post or if its an insightful statement.

              What I am wanting to avoid is the type of trash I see on youtube or other blogs that have spam comments all the time.

              "That was a good video/article, if you want to see similar stuff check out my site at www.mysite.com"

              Trying to strike a medium between tastefully promoting your website, and just spamming.
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  • Profile picture of the author dreeves
    One thing you could do yourself is create a blog that you can post unique content on every so often and some how incorporate your business into the blog and have it link back to different pages on your site as well as other related blogs and sites (not competitors). This will help increase your traffic and your backlinks in time, it won't happen over night. Then you have guest postings that you can do, and if you're lucky enough you can find a blogger that is connected and have him or her submit blog posts to their connected network... Just make sure you are putting 2-3 links in each post and using a variety of keywords and not just your money keywords, use click here, view here,
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post


    This is due to the emphasis on back links making it difficult for new sites. Backlinks seems to be what propels you to the front page of google.
    Welcome to 1996.
    PageRank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      It's pretty easy really, if you don't want to put the time into finding back links then you can buy them, just make sure you educate yourself first.
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  • Profile picture of the author KingRoyal
    Its not impossible to make it as a new site, all you need is a good strategy and a safe technique that will get you to the top. Read this -
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...th-period.html
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    • Profile picture of the author CleanSEO
      Banned
      Originally Posted by KingMighty View Post

      Its not impossible to make it as a new site, all you need is a good strategy and a safe technique that will get you to the top. Read this -
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...th-period.html
      I love your french fries. Is there anything this guy can't do??!

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      • Profile picture of the author KingRoyal
        Originally Posted by CleanSEO View Post

        I love your french fries. Is there anything this guy can't do??!

        Lol Im not sure if this is a compliment or not lol
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        • Profile picture of the author ElGuapo
          The great thing about today's internet is that you don't have to be concerned about search engine rankings. Nowadays you can go direct to your target visitors and point them at your site.

          For example: I use electronic cigarettes. A few months ago I went to the UK's biggest forum on the subject, browsin' around. There's a sub-forum for special offers from merchants. I took a look, saw a new site had been launched, was offering some great deals to get a foothold in the market. I've re-ordered from them several times since.

          Now that site could have been up for one year or one day - it doesn't matter. They can go to the largest sites in their niche, make their presence known and make sales. So it shouldn't be too difficult to make tasteful backlinks - read the posts, make an informed contribution, and make your name clickable (eg SuperSparkplugs, Tim @ Super Sparkplugs).

          Get some social buttons on your site. Follow people in your niche on Twitter. Keep engaging in the conversation. If your website has genuine value, the traffic will take care of itself as others share it around and references it on other relevant sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author patco
    A great strategy for beginners would be to choose a SMALL niche (with really a low competition) and try to rank on 1st page while building backlinks from forum and article marketing and meanwhile do NOT forget to use WarriorForum to learn new things about SEO!
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  • Profile picture of the author CleanSEO
    Banned
    If you are going to go the blog commenting route just know that it is by nature kind of spammy. Make sure it's worth your time to drop that comment:

    -Is the site/post a relevant place to drop your link? Should "make sense"
    -Are there tons of out bound links already on this post?
    -Are there spam links on this post?
    -Is it auto approve? (shudder)
    -What's the page PR (not domain PR)?
    -Will your link be no-followed?

    I'll drop a link if it's a related site, good PR on the post (or I think the post will get PR based on the track record of other posts in the blog.)

    I do care about no-follow, to a point, but if I think it could drive traffic I might drop it even if it's no-follow.

    Then... the comment. You said it... add value. I want to make it so good that the webmaster will allow my link only because it would be a shame to delete such a thoughtful and useful comment. Doesn't have to be butt-kissing though. Correct them (nicely) if they are plain wrong about something they said. Disagree constructively on points that are up for debate. Expand further on a point they've made. Statistics are great, people love numbers to back up something they've said (or even to discount it, just be nice.)

    Anyways, blog commenting can be time consuming, there are more effective ways of building links JMO but if you are going to do it, do it right.
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  • Profile picture of the author chris_87
    @Jacksarloks, that sounds like the exact opposite of what I have read you should do. Hunting down tons of low quality back links is what penalizes you with penguin / panda. Same with article websites such as ezine article. Ezine article used to be very powerful, it still has its uses it seems, but its not worth the weight it once was.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    How are new sites supposed to make it?
    How are new businesses supposed to make it? You have to be better at or do something different from the rest that people want.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    how do you offer something of value
    This is what it boils down to, and sorry if this is harsh, but if you don't have this down to pat then where exactly is your business?
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      That Burger King is absolutely bonkers, man I'm rolling.

      How are new sites supposed to make it?
      Well, every site was new at one time, right?

      You also err on the side of "backlinks mean everything."
      They don't.

      Instead of making false assumptions, and believing them,
      why not do some research?

      One forum reply would not suffice. But...reading the forum
      for some good tips just may be the ticket.

      But then...ironically....you mention what you should be doing:
      Creating your own online empire with which to use and abuse.

      So, what are you waiting for? There is no magic bus to climb
      aboard.

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author SEOAiko
        Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post

        I see these methods suggested quite a lot. But especially when your site is new, how do you offer something of value for the web master (or guest posting on the blog) in return for them linking back to your site?

        I don't see why someone would want to do that unless you can offer something in return. In the case of guest posting I suppose it would be a quality article.
        Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

        This is what it boils down to, and sorry if this is harsh, but if you don't have this down to pat then where exactly is your business?
        From my understanding, bluehabit here is trying to point out that a webmaster wouldn't ever want to grant you a link if your site is not decent enough to link to. Meaning, asking free links from different webmasters as suggested is not a feasible option, considering the site is new.

        I also checked on Yukon's suggested thread Easy Ways to Build Links.

        Originally Posted by yukon View Post


        Remember, thousands of sites on the net could care less about IM & don't have a problem adding your link to their page, as long as your site is somewhat useful to their traffic. Junk sites need not apply.
        I agree. Look at that, JUNK SITES need not apply. It is safe to say that a new site is always almost a junk site.
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        • Profile picture of the author chris_87
          Originally Posted by SEOAiko View Post

          I agree. Look at that, JUNK SITES need not apply. It is safe to say that a new site is always almost a junk site.
          This is precisely the point I am trying to get at. What value do they receive from linking to you, a new site?
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post

            @Jacksarloks, that sounds like the exact opposite of what I have read you should do. Hunting down tons of low quality back links is what penalizes you with penguin / panda. Same with article websites such as ezine article. Ezine article used to be very powerful, it still has its uses it seems, but its not worth the weight it once was.
            You are right. Jack's advice is way off. I would ignore it.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Originally Posted by SEOAiko View Post

          It is safe to say that a new site is always almost a junk site.
          I don't think that's true for all sites. Either the site/page is useful or it sin't, doesn't matter how old the site/page is.

          If I'm looking for a step-by-step guide on how to repair my car brakes, it doesn't matter to me If the web page is 5 years old or 5 days old, what matters is, does the web page help me (specifically me)? The same web page could be selling brake pads & rotors.

          BTW, I have a jeep that needs the front brakes replaced (seriously).
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  • Profile picture of the author InitialEffort
    Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post

    Let me preface this by saying I am new to SEO, but from my understanding it seems to be becoming increasingly difficult to rank your website through organic searches.

    Lets say you just created a new website. Even if you are laser focused in a specific niche, with unique content and proper on page optimization it will be difficult to get ranked.

    This is due to the emphasis on back links making it difficult for new sites. Backlinks seems to be what propels you to the front page of google. Unless you have a pre-existing network to do some guest blogging, ask for backlinks etc. it can be difficult to get quality backlinks to get your site, especially when you are new.

    Let me know if I am off base here, I am just trying to understand SEO better but it seems to be difficult. I am doing SEO for my own local business, and its still taking plenty of effort to rank.

    For new sites, it may take a while for your site to come into the SERPs if it is already not ranking (this goes for all
    new websites building links for the first time). Just continue working on targeted traffic by putting high quality content, updating your website often and making sure that your website is easy to navigate for great user experience. The link velocity should also be taken one step at time or build links slowly. Get links from different types of authority domains – contextual links from wiki, web 2.0s, social bookmarking, blogposts, document sharing, video, press release, etc. Google can easily see or index those links coming from the sites with higher authority.
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  • Profile picture of the author zenichanin
    Your website needs to offer something valuable. It's as simple as that. The more valuable it is, the higher it will rank on Google. It's not hard for GOOD new sites to get ranked, it's just hard for crappy and spammy new sites to get ranked, which we should all be thankful for because it means you have to know what you're doing to get ranked in Google.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Look man, its not hard.

    Its only hard when you don't know what you're doing.
    Most people don't even try to rank a site and will do a bit of backlinking and give up.

    Or you make so many mistakes because your new and give up.

    What I do basically, is start ranking a site 6-9 months before I actually need it ranked. Thats how I look at SEO now. And my process is streamlined better now so I KNOW beforehand not to expect results for 6 months or so.

    My first site, I had no idea what I was doing, it took 8 months about.

    My second site, its taken about 6 months.

    But I didn't just focus on SEO for my second site. I'm dominating local search/directories and youtube as well, and I get an awful lot of traffic from those 2.

    So don't just focus on ranking a site. Do SEO, tons of geotargeted pages/keywords on the site, get listed and reviewed in as many local search directories as possible (order citation gigs on fiver) and make a ton of geotargeted youtube videos and rank them.

    If you keep at it for 6+ months, you can wind up with a very consistent flow of phone calls. This week was our best week so far and its not even close to sunday yet (9 calls, 2 emails). Our highest keyword only gets 720 searches a month which is fairly low search. But we target a lot of keywords, in 3 different areas, and thats what helps us the most.

    In another 6 months, we'll likely double our calls, then we'll have a nice little local business thats fairly lucrative. My brother takes all the calls and gets the crews to do the work, then cuts me my 10% commission. So if a job sells for $8,000, I get $800. Its something I love to do. This is my second site now that gets decent leads and I plan on making a third site in a couple of weeks (a local painting site).

    Between those 3 sites together, I can see us getting between 30-50 calls a month, and I'll be damn good money.

    THEN, I might even do another site.

    But seriously, get to work!! It sucks in the begining. I mean I didn't feel like I had any clue what I was doing for the first 6 months. But once you start building up your online real estate, your assests, your investments... once they begin to produce good traffic & conversions, good money... you just keep reinvesting, building them up more... and there is really no end to how large you can take it.

    For all I know in another 5 years I can own 20-25 local sites, all ranked in their respective industries. I'll continue to help my brother with our own business (which targets 3 niches), and in the other 20 niches I'll just sell leads locally.

    Just keep in mind that years are going to pass by whether you do something or do nothing. Most small local businesses go under. And I do feel like bad management has a lot to do with it. But more specifically I think it comes down to a lack of organization and consistency. They're always begging for the next job, living paycheck to paycheck. Looking for the next "score" of leads. Will it be service magic? Will it be valpak? lol. Should I start SEO for a month and give up again? Should I blow $500 in adwords then complain that it doesn't work because my site looks like shit and I have no good reviews online? I know as far as contractors go at least, in my state, most of them are a disorganized mess of shit. Always blaming the economy for their problems.

    It doesn't matter how good you are at what you do, if you can't find people to work for, you are f##ked. So get to work finding those people and stop looking for excuses. Most of all feel confident every single time you take action, because you know that dozens of your competitors are still sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. That was the most powerful thing I've learned just by being friends with a bunch of local business owners. Some are very successful, but most of them don't have a clue wtf they're doing. And there is something very powerful about realizing that. I may be insecure, but every night I go to bed I smile just thinking about how stupid some people are.

    -Red
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  • Profile picture of the author online only
    I really don't know why some people advice to make wikis, web2.0's, blog comments, article submission and all kinds of other rubbish. Seriously, why should people spend hours and hours by writing some nonsense content and then upload them to different N/A pages.. Half of them will never ever get even indexed by Google. Why? Because, Google thinks they are *#(¤! and that's why your backlinks from such pages are )#¤?)" as well...

    wikis and other kind of spammed to death directories might have worked pre-2012, but they surely don't work now. Atleast in SERP that has some sort of competiton. Of course, you can rank keywords like "best places to hang out" or "car brand logos" with those spammy links, but not the real stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author kmanbloquet
    I have a new site(Livinsport link in signature) It has been hard to get traffic and grow my site but if you work hard and have a great site you can do it. It takes a lot of grunt work but it is a doable job. I work every day for a few hours just promoting my site. I find that it works if you work hard. Build links, talk to people, just spread the word.!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author mightygeek
    Originally Posted by bluehabit View Post

    Backlinks seems to be what propels you to the front page of google. Unless you have a pre-existing network to do some guest blogging, ask for backlinks etc. it can be difficult to get quality backlinks to get your site, especially when you are new.
    Some say SEO is dead, but it's improving day-by-day crushing new web-masters! Go in 90's way!

    1)Start your own article base or blog, write articles based on your related content.

    2)Create a sitemap and make sure google, bing etc indexes it.

    3)Contribute to authority site's through guest posting, If they like your content, they link back 1 or 2 related links to your web site/blog.

    4)Engage in social communities.

    5)social sharing(slide, doc's, video) to top ranking site's(1-5 max)


    Takes pretty good time to get rankings, but would surely benefit for a long time.

    Purely google, bing etc friendly!
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  • Profile picture of the author Joelle Hoban
    Hello Bluehabit,

    I know how frustrating this must be to try to make it to a good place in search engine rankings such as with Google. The key here is to remember there are many factors that affect your ranking status, not only backlinks. Backlinks are one of those vital components; however there are other important factors as well. Here are some of the most vital to your website’s rankings.

    1. Keywords

    This is one is at the heart of search engine rankings because every URL or link on your own site and on the web will have your keywords front and center. This is automatically telling all the search engines what your site is about and the content in your site.

    2. Backlinks

    Before the Panda Empowered Google, Many SEO experts would have suggested high quality backlinks to be the overriding factor for high rankings. Now many experts suggest on page and on site metrics to be the more important factor after Panda.

    3. Social Media

    In the last few years or so the importance of the Social Media connection is becoming visible to many experts. After all, getting thousands of Facebook likes, Twitter tweets, and Google plus ones will only have positive results for your website.

    These are currently 3 of the most important factors to boost your rankings with Google and others.
    I hope this helps.
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