Starting Local Seo Company - Courses ?

65 replies
  • SEO
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I have decided that I want to start a Small Seo Business.I wanted to know if there was any authority course or any other source of information which I could refer to for better understanding.Any suggestions ?
#company #courses #local #seo #starting
  • Profile picture of the author Jimerson Farveez
    I would recommend to read out SEO Guide for Beginner there you can get ideas on what to do, i.e How to begin? - then you can just own a website and test it yourself, on success you can start to offer services to others
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  • Profile picture of the author Aubin
    It is crazy to me how many people think that because they got one website to rank well; or who go on a short course in SEO they are qualified to start their own company.

    If you are serious you should spend years and years perfecting your skills either for yourself or for a company before you are qualified to start your own company offering SEO solutions.
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    • Profile picture of the author KingRoyal
      Originally Posted by Aubin View Post

      It is crazy to me how many people think that because they got one website to rank well; or who go on a short course in SEO they are qualified to start their own company.

      If you are serious you should spend years and years perfecting your skills either for yourself or for a company before you are qualified to start your own company offering SEO solutions.
      Thats exactly right, and if one was ready to start a company, he would have already found a course to start running with.
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    • Profile picture of the author neha12
      Originally Posted by Aubin View Post

      It is crazy to me how many people think that because they got one website to rank well; or who go on a short course in SEO they are qualified to start their own company.

      If you are serious you should spend years and years perfecting your skills either for yourself or for a company before you are qualified to start your own company offering SEO solutions.
      Perfect Aubin, Now a day most of people want to open their own SEO Company, without having any experience in the same.

      I think, They don't know about god of internet Google and their Algorithm changes.
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  • Profile picture of the author jaisonjohn
    Its rightly said by "Aubin, its not that much easy for guy to start a company by just learning the course, as there are drastic changes in the SEO industry have to thoroughly understand the issues of the same. Ensure that you work on a project for atleast for two to three years for better understanding of the terminologies as well as get familiar with things. If you planning start a company for time being hire a SEO consultant to implement the same and then under his guidance understand the concepts one by one which I feel is the best solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Seriously, we don't need more local SEO providers with no experience taking clients from people who DO KNOW what they're doing.

    It is that type of mentality that causes small businesses to go under. And in the large scheme of things, you're not doing anything to help the world, you're just risking the chance of harming someones business. Even if a small business is somewhat diversified, does a bit of direct mail or local search or ppc, many of these companies are skating a fine line to keep their salesman paid, their bills paid, all awhile trying to keep their overhead as low as possible. The point is, even with a somewhat diversified funnel, it doesn't take a lot to offset a small business and trigger a spiral downward to bankruptcy.

    I saw it happen with one of my close friends last September. This guy called him up trying to sell PPC, promising results he couldn't deliver. Even though I recommended against it, he wound up going through with it. In less than 3 months he was $60,000 in debt, fighting with his wife, and struggling just to keep food on the table.

    If you're a newbie thinking about selling SEO, or offering results you can't deliver, you risk your clients business, their family, their welfare... something they have invested in for years and years.

    It is really sad to watch. Because these business owners wake up everyday and bust their asses to provide for their families. Then you have this pool of parisitic marketers, trying to leach onto the little bit of income they do have... with no real concern for anything but making themselves money.

    Its too easy to start an SEO company. Get a website, spam some links, or outsource to the first person you find, without doing any real research or testing. But this crap has to stop. I'm not even trying to point my finger at the OP, I'm speaking in a much broader context here. In this modern age, the word "value" has been raped and pillaged into this unrecognizable mass of shit that nobody can see anymore. Greed has become a virtue, even at the expense of a nations economy.

    If people spent more time worrying about how they were going to help others, rather than themselves, this world would be in a much better position than its in today.

    Just please, take your time, educate the hell out of yourself, and if you do eventually sell SEO, make damn sure you can deliver results. But worrying about an "authority course" is irrelevant. You need to get out there and apply, test, apply and do more testing.

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      What planet do you people live on? If OP needs a beginners
      guide to SEO, then what the ____?!?!?!?

      Paul
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      If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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    • Profile picture of the author pwtmike
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Seriously, we don't need more local SEO providers with no experience taking clients from people who DO KNOW what they're doing.

      It is that type of mentality that causes small businesses to go under. And in the large scheme of things, you're not doing anything to help the world, you're just risking the chance of harming someones business. Even if a small business is somewhat diversified, does a bit of direct mail or local search or ppc, many of these companies are skating a fine line to keep their salesman paid, their bills paid, all awhile trying to keep their overhead as low as possible. The point is, even with a somewhat diversified funnel, it doesn't take a lot to offset a small business and trigger a spiral downward to bankruptcy.

      I saw it happen with one of my close friends last September. This guy called him up trying to sell PPC, promising results he couldn't deliver. Even though I recommended against it, he wound up going through with it. In less than 3 months he was $60,000 in debt, fighting with his wife, and struggling just to keep food on the table.

      If you're a newbie thinking about selling SEO, or offering results you can't deliver, you risk your clients business, their family, their welfare... something they have invested in for years and years.

      It is really sad to watch. Because these business owners wake up everyday and bust their asses to provide for their families. Then you have this pool of parisitic marketers, trying to leach onto the little bit of income they do have... with no real concern for anything but making themselves money.

      Its too easy to start an SEO company. Get a website, spam some links, or outsource to the first person you find, without doing any real research or testing. But this crap has to stop. I'm not even trying to point my finger at the OP, I'm speaking in a much broader context here. In this modern age, the word "value" has been raped and pillaged into this unrecognizable mass of shit that nobody can see anymore. Greed has become a virtue, even at the expense of a nations economy.

      If people spent more time worrying about how they were going to help others, rather than themselves, this world would be in a much better position than its in today.

      Just please, take your time, educate the hell out of yourself, and if you do eventually sell SEO, make damn sure you can deliver results. But worrying about an "authority course" is irrelevant. You need to get out there and apply, test, apply and do more testing.

      -Red
      Hey Red! looks like the OP is trying to educate himself. I think many would say the business owner is ultimately responsible for their own business. I don't think that people who are out there trying to learn something are the reason why small businesses fail. How does this make sense? and what are you doing Red that you are affected by parasitic marketers? Does your small business 'grow up' with other small businesses or does it just magnify their lack of experience to keep them small? I am amazed by your business experience and I think you may like to consider offering a course!
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by pwtmike View Post

        Hey Red! looks like the OP is trying to educate himself. I think many would say the business owner is ultimately responsible for their own business. I don't think that people who are out there trying to learn something are the reason why small businesses fail. How does this make sense? and what are you doing Red that you are affected by parasitic marketers? Does your small business 'grow up' with other small businesses or does it just magnify their lack of experience to keep them small? I am amazed by your business experience and I think you may like to consider offering a course!
        The problem is that the OP isn't starting at the obvious, reasonable starting point which would be: I want to learn SEO. He is starting at this point: How do I sell SEO to other people. And that's a dangerous mindset. A person like that will learn just enough to sound like they could be legit, just enough to make the sale.

        This post is like me brushing my teeth and then deciding that I'm a dentist.
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    • Profile picture of the author Msaeed
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Seriously, we don't need more local SEO providers with no experience taking clients from people who DO KNOW what they're doing.

      It is that type of mentality that causes small businesses to go under. And in the large scheme of things, you're not doing anything to help the world, you're just risking the chance of harming someones business. Even if a small business is somewhat diversified, does a bit of direct mail or local search or ppc, many of these companies are skating a fine line to keep their salesman paid, their bills paid, all awhile trying to keep their overhead as low as possible. The point is, even with a somewhat diversified funnel, it doesn't take a lot to offset a small business and trigger a spiral downward to bankruptcy.

      I saw it happen with one of my close friends last September. This guy called him up trying to sell PPC, promising results he couldn't deliver. Even though I recommended against it, he wound up going through with it. In less than 3 months he was $60,000 in debt, fighting with his wife, and struggling just to keep food on the table.

      If you're a newbie thinking about selling SEO, or offering results you can't deliver, you risk your clients business, their family, their welfare... something they have invested in for years and years.

      It is really sad to watch. Because these business owners wake up everyday and bust their asses to provide for their families. Then you have this pool of parisitic marketers, trying to leach onto the little bit of income they do have... with no real concern for anything but making themselves money.

      Its too easy to start an SEO company. Get a website, spam some links, or outsource to the first person you find, without doing any real research or testing. But this crap has to stop. I'm not even trying to point my finger at the OP, I'm speaking in a much broader context here. In this modern age, the word "value" has been raped and pillaged into this unrecognizable mass of shit that nobody can see anymore. Greed has become a virtue, even at the expense of a nations economy.

      If people spent more time worrying about how they were going to help others, rather than themselves, this world would be in a much better position than its in today.

      Just please, take your time, educate the hell out of yourself, and if you do eventually sell SEO, make damn sure you can deliver results. But worrying about an "authority course" is irrelevant. You need to get out there and apply, test, apply and do more testing.

      -Red
      The truth and nothing but the truth!
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Gram
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Seriously, we don't need more local SEO providers with no experience taking clients from people who DO KNOW what they're doing.

      It is that type of mentality that causes small businesses to go under. And in the large scheme of things, you're not doing anything to help the world, you're just risking the chance of harming someones business. Even if a small business is somewhat diversified, does a bit of direct mail or local search or ppc, many of these companies are skating a fine line to keep their salesman paid, their bills paid, all awhile trying to keep their overhead as low as possible. The point is, even with a somewhat diversified funnel, it doesn't take a lot to offset a small business and trigger a spiral downward to bankruptcy.

      I saw it happen with one of my close friends last September. This guy called him up trying to sell PPC, promising results he couldn't deliver. Even though I recommended against it, he wound up going through with it. In less than 3 months he was $60,000 in debt, fighting with his wife, and struggling just to keep food on the table.

      If you're a newbie thinking about selling SEO, or offering results you can't deliver, you risk your clients business, their family, their welfare... something they have invested in for years and years.

      It is really sad to watch. Because these business owners wake up everyday and bust their asses to provide for their families. Then you have this pool of parisitic marketers, trying to leach onto the little bit of income they do have... with no real concern for anything but making themselves money.

      Its too easy to start an SEO company. Get a website, spam some links, or outsource to the first person you find, without doing any real research or testing. But this crap has to stop. I'm not even trying to point my finger at the OP, I'm speaking in a much broader context here. In this modern age, the word "value" has been raped and pillaged into this unrecognizable mass of shit that nobody can see anymore. Greed has become a virtue, even at the expense of a nations economy.

      If people spent more time worrying about how they were going to help others, rather than themselves, this world would be in a much better position than its in today.

      Just please, take your time, educate the hell out of yourself, and if you do eventually sell SEO, make damn sure you can deliver results. But worrying about an "authority course" is irrelevant. You need to get out there and apply, test, apply and do more testing.

      -Red
      I couldn't have said it better Red. You nailed it.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    "Outsmarting Google". Theres your beginners guide.

    The point is, children don't typically look at pools and think "boy, I want to become a professional swimmer". They usually stand looking at the waves glimmer, with piss dripping down their legs as they shake nervously. They decide whether they want to become a swimmer after they have slowly immersed themselves in water, learned how to swim, and have decided they won't drown.

    Now, not all children are like this. Some just jump in and kill themselves. Or someone else dies trying to save them.

    Moral of the story, don't go swimming or think about becoming a swimmer.. if you don't actually know how to swim. Because you can die.

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author panic
      And always bring your towel.

      What are we talking about again?
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by panic View Post

        And always bring your towel.
        And don't forget to give him something to smoke.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    And don't swim for 30 minutes after eating (or drinking Patron)

    Red's right Though the piss was a little much ewwww
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  • Not sure what the poster wanted: (1) an authoritative course on how to setup an SEO company, or (2) an authoritative course on SEO. If later then all criticism is justified.
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    • Profile picture of the author pwtmike
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      The problem is that the OP isn't starting at the obvious, reasonable starting point which would be: I want to learn SEO. He is starting at this point: How do I sell SEO to other people. And that's a dangerous mindset. A person like that will learn just enough to sound like they could be legit, just enough to make the sale.

      This post is like me brushing my teeth and then deciding that I'm a dentist.
      If you floss, scrape tarter, and do some whitening you can be a dental hygienist! :rolleyes:


      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      "Outsmarting Google". Theres your beginners guide.

      The point is, children don't typically look at pools and think "boy, I want to become a professional swimmer". They usually stand looking at the waves glimmer, with piss dripping down their legs as they shake nervously. They decide whether they want to become a swimmer after they have slowly immersed themselves in water, learned how to swim, and have decided they won't drown.

      Now, not all children are like this. Some just jump in and kill themselves. Or someone else dies trying to save them.

      Moral of the story, don't go swimming or think about becoming a swimmer.. if you don't actually know how to swim. Because you can die.

      -Red
      There can be some pretty big waves out there... I always say sales and marketing are the fun parts! As long as you can deliver of course
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  • Profile picture of the author AbhijitGaba
    Look Guys,I'm pretty well versed in the seo biz.I am by no means an "authority",but I understand what it takes to rank a site for general keywords.I don't plan on ruining anyone's business and that's why I will be outsourcing the work to professionals on WF.I will merely be acting as an intermediary and my limited knowledge of Seo will help me doing exactly that.So what I was looking for is not a beginners guide to Seo, But a beginners guide to starting a Seo firm(if there is such a thing) .
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by AbhijitGaba View Post

      Look Guys,I'm pretty well versed in the seo biz.I am by no means an "authority",but I understand what it takes to rank a site for general keywords.I don't plan on ruining anyone's business and that's why I will be outsourcing the work to professionals on WF.I will merely be acting as an intermediary
      Ah.........I get you.......Don't listen to these dopes

      I will be your friend because I understand what you really are asking for and its not how to start a SEO firm.

      PM me......You can be my affiliate any time.
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  • Profile picture of the author AbhijitGaba
    so nobody is listening to me
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Ok just my opinion, but I think an SEO company needs to be started by an SEO (s) What you are proposing is really subbing the work out to other people, which is great in theory but who is going to be ultimately accountable (and liable!!) for the SEO work done? You are. It's you the client is hiring, not your subcontractors.

    I have employees and I have subcontractors as well and I'll tell you that the stuff that I get screwed on is the stuff where I am not an expert. My SEO team can't get anything over on me because I know how to do each of their jobs, they know they can't BS me. But, for example: the guy that does all the video editing/effects for us... I basically have to take his word on how long stuff takes etc. because I am not an expert in that field at all.

    I know what you want to do, I just don't think it's a great idea. Maybe it works in other industries but not great for SEO. Think of it like this: would you start a law firm tomorrow? No, because you aren't a lawyer. That's just how it works. I've always been of the opinion that you should never start a business in an industry that you don't know inside and out.

    Maybe you could start a lead generation service for SEOs or something?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      But, for example: the guy that does all the video editing/effects for us.......
      Sucks. I happen to have seen one of your SEO videos on your website a few days ago and there were no special effects and not a drop of editing.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Sucks. I happen to have seen one of your SEO videos on your website a few days ago and there were no special effects and not a drop of editing.
        Fibber we don't have any videos of our own. We take on video campaigns for clients.

        Although... been toyin with the idea of an SEO course that would be.. get this... fun to watch.

        I think if given the choice of watching a traditional video course and one with some entertainment value most people would pick the fun one as long as the informational value was equal

        I don't want to spoil it.. it's just something I've been thinking about for awhile. Ok now tell me why you disagree totally and completely hahaha
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Here's your local SEO course, build your own web page & rank the page for:
    • [keyword] + [town]
    • [keyword] + [zip code]

    Repeat..., Done.

    Just like anything SEO related you'll have better luck asking specific questions as your learning (hands on). If you want detailed answers, ask detailed questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lanx
    sadly a junky wso's are saying get a client first,learn seo later (or just fiverr it)
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  • Profile picture of the author AbhijitGaba
    Thank you all for your cumulative wisdom on the topic....I think I will spend some more time practicing my own SEO skills.Although I am still into the Idea,I will approach it gradually and in time I will start the business.Thank you all
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    • Profile picture of the author bturner
      AbhijitGaba,

      Don't get too hung up on starting your business right away. Spend the time to get educated. The Warrior Forum is a great place for you to learn SEO. There are other SEO education sites though. Spend some time reading the blogs over at http://www.searchenginenews.com or http://www.searchenginejournal.com and visit the forums at http://www.warriorforum.com or http://www.freeseoadvice.com, you'll learn a lot if you spend an hour each day reading.

      I started in 2011 and still operate a successful SEO company. I didn't just wake up one day and decide to sell SEO services though. I first got a job working for an SEO company, starting out as a junior tech in 1999 and worked for that company through a merger and acquisition until 2011. It wasn't until 2010 that I realized I had enough experience to launch a company and actually offer a reliable SEO service to clients.

      Probably the most important take-away aside from the fact that you must be certain that you can offer a reliable service to your clients, is that starting a company involves having to be mindful of lots of other little daily and monthly tasks associated with keeping your business healthy. Things like creating a monthly budget, being aware of the financial health of your company at all times and being able to quickly tell if you are over budget inside of any particular month. Managing vendors and staff (if you have any) are other areas that can take up your time. If you decide to outsource you've got your work cut out for you because you've got somebody else doing the work and your brand, your name is attached to that work. If they mess up it's you that the client will be upset with. You have to have a good handle on the quality control of your services offered.

      Another important take-away: you've got to create processes for every aspect of delivering service to your clients. For example, we have a process for on-boarding new clients, for everything from on-page optimization, to off-page social share seeding, link building, citation building, local search data clean up and even little things like Google Webmaster Tools profile creation, site verification and XML sitemap submission which are equally important. From start of a client's SEO campaign to completion of their campaign, if you don't have a process and a system for managing your clients while producing a measurable result for each client then you'll find that things fall through the cracks and you'll drop the ball on your clients more often than not. This is especially true when you become recognized as a leader in your field and you start on-boarding a higher volume of new clients each month. I tell you, we could not function as a company and deliver results without processes in place and a CRM to manage clients through each stage of their SEO campaign. I know this from experience. Presently we on-board many new clients every month and our process is so streamlined and proven that rarely is there ever a problem.

      You've got to make sure that you think about all of those things and how you are going to approach each of them so that you're not limited by your ability to deliver results for clients and by your ability to handle volume. Otherwise you'll always be capped at a maximum capacity of only being able to take on just a handful of clients successfully at one time and never be able to take on hundreds of clients at a time while still delivering a great result for each client. Remember, it takes years to build a great reputation. On the internet your reputation can be ruined in minutes. Do your home work and make sure that you can build a solid reputation for your SEO company by consistently delivering a great result for each one of your clients.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimboJim
    Don't worry Kevin, I actually just did that. I'm sure they'll love it.
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  • Profile picture of the author J R Salem
    What has kind of been touched on, but is often ignored is the fact that most SEO companies just focus on rankings. Getting your client ranked is worthless if you have not properly setup the other areas of their business:

    Calls-to-action on website

    Tracking mechanisms

    Follow-up procedures

    Finding a reliable outsourcer on WF is a good start, but just remember that rankings mean nothing without a process. That is what separates the good companies from the average companies.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by J R Salem View Post

      What has kind of been touched on, but is often ignored is the fact that most SEO companies just focus on rankings. Getting your client ranked is worthless if you have not properly setup the other areas of their business:

      Calls-to-action on website

      Tracking mechanisms

      Follow-up procedures


      Finding a reliable outsourcer on WF is a good start, but just remember that rankings mean nothing without a process. That is what separates the good companies from the average companies.
      Your confusing SEO (Search Engine Optimization) with conversions.

      A coach can put you on a baseball field, If you can't play ball (call to actions, conversions, etc...) that's your problem. Hit the bench.

      I'll give you tracking If your talking about target keywords the client is trying/paying to rank for.
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      • Profile picture of the author J R Salem
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Your confusing SEO (Search Engine Optimization) with conversions.

        A coach can put you on a baseball field, If you can't play ball (call to actions, conversions, etc...) that's your problem. Hit the bench.

        I'll give you tracking If your talking about target keywords the client is trying/paying to rank for.
        I suppose if you are just a link building company then this is fine.

        However, the way we work with clients is we are a full-service SEO Agency, that is not going to just get you ranked, but we are going to help you convert.

        If I get them ranked but they aren't getting new leads, then they will think the rankings are worthless. By helping them, they are happy and want to work with us on additional services that can bring even more leads.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by J R Salem View Post

          I suppose if you are just a link building company then this is fine.

          However, the way we work with clients is we are a full-service SEO Agency, that is not going to just get you ranked, but we are going to help you convert.

          If I get them ranked but they aren't getting new leads, then they will think the rankings are worthless. By helping them, they are happy and want to work with us on additional services that can bring even more leads.
          That's fine, but it's not SEO & a business would have to be insane to allow an SEO to see all their sales conversion data. If the SEO can rank a page & also has all the sales conversion data then they don't need the client.

          Even If the SEO couldn't perform a service they're ranking a page for (doctor, lawyer, etc...) that conversion data would be a goldmine for selling to the highest bidder (client).

          I can't imagine a real business simply handing over the keys to their business to some random SEO guy they found on the net.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          JR most people here will not see your point. Its just a mentality of the place. Tried to explain this to someone last week but she swore she was right that seo is just about ranking. YOu can do only so much education here before you are up against a brick wall of peoples experiences.

          Walk into any real business that hires people and tell them that their end goal of getting real customers (not just prospective customers) has nothing to do with Search Engine Optimization and they will laugh you out of the building.

          Only in a non grown up world will the end goal of a business activity have nothing to do with the activity itself. Making Money for ANY advertising medium is that goal.

          Now you can't reinvent a business and you can't force a client to change his site or sell a better product but yeah if you notice a glitch on his site that could result in lost sales you best point it out within your service to them and if you are paid well enough you SHOULD look through the site and figure out what pages he should rank to get the best conversion of his product with his sales process.

          Thats being a thing you call a professional. Its not something you can do for the few hundred dollar client but go ahead and talk crap and say its not a part of your job for a client paying you well - if they are not making money they won't be paying you for long so its just stupid.

          Frankly I turn away customers all the time just because I do an assessment on their business model. I can't be bothered with the clients that pay, you rank them and they are gone because they are not making any money. Shucks I want the higher paying client to brag about how much money they made or how sales increased cause they sure won't brag that they ranked but didn't make a dime.

          but no you are not going to get that across to WF marketers

          Originally Posted by J R Salem View Post

          I suppose if you are just a link building company then this is fine.

          However, the way we work with clients is we are a full-service SEO Agency, that is not going to just get you ranked, but we are going to help you convert.

          If I get them ranked but they aren't getting new leads, then they will think the rankings are worthless. By helping them, they are happy and want to work with us on additional services that can bring even more leads.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Your confusing SEO (Search Engine Optimization) with conversions.
        He's going into a bit more than is SEO but he is not that far off and looking at whether your client is setup to make money for a SEO is a good business practice.

        A coach can put you on a baseball field, If you can't play ball (call to actions, conversions, etc...) that's your problem. Hit the bench.
        You analogy is weak and in fact PERFECTLY illustrates why he has a point. For a SEO if the the player hits the bench the SEO will too since he will be shortly after that be unemployed by the player.

        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        That's fine, but it's not SEO & a business would have to be insane to allow an SEO to see all their sales conversion data. If the SEO can rank a page & also has all the sales conversion data then they don't need the client.
        Yuke you are talking nonsense. the conversion data need only show page traffic to the checkout page or the redirect after a purchase. No data tht can be sold is being given away. You make it sound like you gt a client list. If you think that companies or people paying for top notch SEO services don't share the overall results with their SEO you are sadly mistaken
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You analogy is weak and in fact PERFECTLY illustrates why he has a point. For a SEO if the the player hits the bench the SEO will too since he will be shortly after that be unemployed by the player.
          C'mon, like there's only a single client in the entire world. :rolleyes:

          SEO is SEO, he's talking about a business manager, which isn't SEO.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            C'mon, like there's only a single client in the entire world. :rolleyes:
            Small timer mentality. Just run a WSO and get another client to replace them. No thanks - you don't pick up a $2,000+ a month client just like that from a WF classified. Sorry. Small time doesn't define all of SEO

            SEO is SEO, he's talking about a business manager, which isn't SEO.
            I won't lie he seems to go into more than I would. I've said that already but looking out for your customer in regard to conversions and even incorporating issues with their conversion into their SEO can be and for many SEOs is a part of the job

            Last Week someone tried the same definition of SEO junk argument and said nothing but ranking matters but go ahead and look up doctor in the dictionary and there are a whole bunch of things not listed in the definition that can and are a part of being a good doctor for many physicians.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Small timer mentality. Just run a WSO and get another client to replace them. No thanks - you don't pick up a $2,000+ a month client just like that from a WF classified. Sorry. Small time doesn't define all of SEO



              I won't lie he seems to go into more than I would. I've said that already but looking out for your customer in regard to conversions and even incorporating issues with their conversion into their SEO can be and for many SEOs is a part of the job

              Last Week someone tried the same definition of SEO junk argument and said nothing but ranking matters but go ahead and look up doctor in the dictionary and there are a whole bunch of things not listed in the definition that can and are a part of being a good doctor for many physicians.
              Bottom line is, any business that hands over the keys to their business to a random person doing SEO is clueless.

              You guys must be working with dreamers that can't be bothered running their own business, because your defiantly talking about business management, not SEO.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                Bottom line is, any business that hands over the keys to their business to a random person doing SEO is clueless.
                Dude outside of rallying the faithful to go and make some pennies with adsense its you that are clueless. We both know you have done no SEO for companies and your ignorance is on display even with that statement.

                A) These businesses are not handing their business over to a SEO just because the SEO provides some assistance in conversion. Thats just stupid logic.
                B) only a small time marketer would think the business would be handed over just because a person took over (if they even did) some online duties. Most clients have a thriving offline business with multiple marketing streams of which the net is just a part.

                Yes if you are in your Pajamas on the bunk bed you share with your brother then online is your whole business but theres a real business world out there.



                You guys must be working with dreamers that can't be bothered running their own business, .
                Dude you are being stupid. The most successful business men are good at running their business long before they rank or even hooked up online. The reason they hire people is because they make more money doing their business than they do messing with the technicalities of their website. You are again clueless.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Ha, ha, here's one of your clients that give SEOs the keys to their business.

    The SEO is the guy on the bike, how hard could this be?





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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Ha, ha, here's one of your clients that give SEOs the keys to their business.

      The SEO is the guy on the bike, how hard could this be
      See thats the thing with kids pretending to be grown ups on forums. Sooner or later they give themselves away.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        See thats the thing with kids pretending to be grown ups on forums. Sooner or later they give themselves away.
        ...because a real business client is dumb enough to turn their entire business over to a random person on the net. :rolleyes:

        Your acting like your talking about a real business/client, when in fact your talking about some clueless knucklehead/client.

        This thread is getting silly as usual.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          ...because a real business client is dumb enough to turn their entire business over to a random person on the net. :rolleyes:
          No because your post 40 was a response with video that only a kid would give. Teens are often unaware that their responses can give them away. Trust me give it another 10 years and you will be able to see it too


          Your acting like your talking about a real business/client, when in fact your talking about some clueless knucklehead/client.
          I'm not acting like - I have had and still do real business clients and yes oh clueless one they DO share their results in terms of sales because oh clueless one THAT IS how businesses determine success - BY INCREASED SALES, The only knuckleheads in this thread are people who think that because you get traffic data to a checkout page and a business takes suggestions from their SEO company they are turning their entire business over to them

          You just can't think beyond your adsense world. What else is new? (See what I mean JR the brick wall of their mindset)

          Seriously anyone who has been here a year or two knows your spiel. You run an adsense site here and there that you allegedly make money with but you have ZERO experience in doing SEO for businesses and yet here you are talking about things you have no personal experience with

          This thread is getting silly as usual.
          Dude if it aint an adsense thread it usually does when you enter it. Its simple talk about what you know. Done SEO for any business that paid you thousands of dollars per month? Didn't think so but still you blather about what you don't know.
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          • Profile picture of the author yukon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            No because your post 40 was a response with video that only a kid would give. Teens are often unaware that their responses can give them away.
            Ha, ha, I wish you were right about me being a teen, unfortunately those days are long gone.
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          • Profile picture of the author TheFBGuy
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Seriously anyone who has been here a year or two knows your spiel. You run an adsense site here and there that you allegedly make money with but you have ZERO experience in doing SEO for businesses and yet here you are talking about things you have no personal experience with
            Not to "jump in", but you also have "ZERO experience" with Adsense as well, and yet you do the exact same thing you are accusing Yukon of doing (hides) :rolleyes:

            Carry on.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by TheFBGuy View Post

              Not to "jump in", but you also have "ZERO experience" with Adsense as well, and yet you do the exact same thing you are accusing Yukon of doing (hides) :rolleyes:
              Well

              A) I don't take anything you say seriously ever since you proclaimed that crooks and people who steal from others are not bad people they just have a different perspective. :rolleyes: . I kinda filter out most of the teen criminal element on here

              B) You will not see me get into any debate about the technicalities of operating adsense sites. I think the business model sucks and yes I do have experience with that. I tell people to stay away from MFAs not how they should run them. Yuke can talk any time he wants about business models. Anyone who has run a business can evaluate a business model.

              What you can't do logically is claim to know about how a business does or should run when you have never done it. Its just stupid.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by TheFBGuy View Post

              Not to "jump in", but you also have "ZERO experience" with Adsense as well, and yet you do the exact same thing you are accusing Yukon of doing (hides) :rolleyes:

              Carry on.
              He's one of those guys that was banned, so obviously Adsense doesn't work, lol.

              Watch, he'll write a 10 page reply, ha, ha...
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    I remember this arguement. This is just a vocabulary question. I do full service IM, which means when I get a new client I learn everything about their business, their goals, their local market and competition that I possibly can. Then I write up a game plan, choosing which IM strategies are the best fit for the client. They get a vote in that too.

    Basically IM is the restaurant and SEO is just one item you can order. Let's say it's a T bone. Now I can suggest that your T bone would go really well with that baked potato and a green salad. But in theory you could just order the T bone right?

    Nobody is saying it's a good idea to go "a la carte". I don't like to work with clients that I think are setting themselves up to fail, most times I'll pass on that. But the point is that SEO is a set of skills, it's a stand alone service that is often paired with other services to create a more comprehensive solution. SEO= ranking a site IM= the reason, the strategy and the game plan.

    I leave you with Wikipedia's definition:

    Search engine optimization (SEO) is the process of affecting the visibility of a website or a web page in a search engine's "natural" or un-paid ("organic") search results. In general, the earlier (or higher ranked on the search results page), and more frequently a site appears in the search results list, the more visitors it will receive from the search engine's users. SEO may target different kinds of search, including image search, local search, video search, academic search,[1] news search and industry-specific vertical search engines.

    As an Internet marketing strategy, SEO considers how search engines work, what people search for, the actual search terms or keywords typed into search engines and which search engines are preferred by their targeted audience. Optimizing a website may involve editing its content, HTML and associated coding to both increase its relevance to specific keywords and to remove barriers to the indexing activities of search engines. Promoting a site to increase the number of backlinks, or inbound links, is another SEO tactic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Basically IM is the restaurant and SEO is just one item you can order... But the point is that SEO is a set of skills, it's a stand alone service....I leave you with Wikipedia's definition:
      Its not a stand alone service. Plain and simple. I am not one to think that a dictionary or wikipedia entry settles any practice in the real world but if you insist your wikipedia quote would prove it

      As an Internet marketing strategy, SEO considers how search engines work,
      Wiki says it clears as day - SEO is an internet marketing strategy.

      Know of any kind of marketing that does not involve gaining customers? How can you be a professional leader of a marketing strategy and claim the actual customers the client gets is not your concern? I dunno I am not going to run this down and you are certainly not making the extreme nonsense argument that Yukon is but IMers like WF IMers have junked up the SEO profession so much that they swear what they do is all SEO is.

      and that will continue to be total garbage.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      I remember this arguement. This is just a vocabulary question. I do full service IM, which means when I get a new client I learn everything about their business, their goals, their local market and competition that I possibly can. Then I write up a game plan, choosing which IM strategies are the best fit for the client. They get a vote in that too.

      Basically IM is the restaurant and SEO is just one item you can order. Let's say it's a T bone. Now I can suggest that your T bone would go really well with that baked potato and a green salad. But in theory you could just order the T bone right?

      Nobody is saying it's a good idea to go "a la carte". I don't like to work with clients that I think are setting themselves up to fail, most times I'll pass on that. But the point is that SEO is a set of skills, it's a stand alone service that is often paired with other services to create a more comprehensive solution. SEO= ranking a site IM= the reason, the strategy and the game plan.

      I leave you with Wikipedia's definition:
      These guys are suggesting SEO is a client handing them their entire business (sales data, etc...) which isn't real, it's just talk or some short term client that will file for bankruptcy soon enough.

      Careful what you read on Wikipedia, Mike A. might be making edits to that article as we post comments here on WF (just kidding Mike).
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        These guys are suggesting SEO is a client handing them their entire business (sales data, etc...)
        Yep and like a kid just goes back to the same old lying.:rolleyes:


        which isn't real, it's just talk or some short term client that will file for bankruptcy soon enough.
        Nope these are real businesses not ones that rely on adsense for all their income

        Careful what you read on Wikipedia, Mike A. might be making edits to that article as we post comments here on WF (just kidding Mike).
        LOl. Good stuff - ironic since you are the only one I know that tried to sell how to do that (in order to drop links) through PM. Will you be doing this for the summer break
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Yep and like a kid just goes back to the same old lying.:rolleyes:




          Nope these are real businesses not ones that rely on adsense for all their income



          LOl. Good stuff - ironic since you are the only one I know that tried to sell how to do that (in order to drop links) through PM. Will you be doing this for the summer break
          Lol, I've been around this forum long enough to see your forum sig jump from one link scheme to the next, keep peddling your little DIY links, I'll make my money on auto-pilot.

          Got any SEO articles? LMAO!
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Lol, I've been around this forum long enough to see your forum sig jump from one link scheme to the next,
            Yuke you are a flat out liar. (but hey kids will be kids )

            Everyone on this board knows I have been into Building SEO networks for years now. What?you upset because I reminded you of your trying to sell instructions on how to fake being a legit wikipedia editor in order to get links from there

            Talk about link schemes...LOL

            I know...I know...... next you might try the old standby and reference some african american "leader" like you did the other day because thats my race.

            What else is new?
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Yuke you are a flat out liar. (but hey kids will be kids )

              Everyone on this board knows I have been into Building SEO networks for years now. What?you upset because I reminded you of your trying to sell instructions on how to fake being a legit wikipedia editor in order to get links from there

              Talk about link schemes...LOL

              I know...I know...... next you might try the old standby and reference some african american "leader" like you did the other day because thats my race.

              What else is new?
              How's those $1 links working out?

              CRAZY ONE DOLLAR BACKLINKS FOR ALL - SOFTWARE AND LIST TOTAL COST = $1

              With inflation those links are now selling for $5 on fiverr, ha, ha.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                How's those $1 links working out?
                ROFL

                A) They were trial AND thats Four years ago when they very much did work Pre-penguin, pre all the pandas.
                B) Seriously who else but a kid would desperately go looking through wayback machine to make a point that shows no change in nearly four years and verifies their own lying about switching from link scheme to link scheme
                C) Even then they were worth more than faking being a wikipedia editor and a whole lot more ethical

                You too funny kid. 14-17 maybe?
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles AK
    if you need an over the shoulder course I recommend bring the fresh or OMG machines.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Boys, boys this is a civilized discussion between professionals right?

    What I'm saying Mike is that if you are helping your clients with conversion strategies etc then that is internet marketing. You can do SEO as part of internet marketing but it's just one strategy (as the definition says and you confirm.) Nobody is giving SEO a bad rep, SEO should be done by somebody that knows how to execute it as part of a larger plan to help their clients make money. That larger plan is IM. You are more than an SEO, is my point, you are a bonafide internet marketer
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Boys, boys this is a civilized discussion between professionals right?
      Umm no that aint a given.......I don't know who is professionals and who isn't.

      What I'm saying Mike is that if you are helping your clients with conversion strategies etc then that is internet marketing. You can do SEO as part of internet marketing but it's just one strategy (as the definition says and you confirm.)
      lol Dollz your wikipedia quote states SEO IS a kind of internet marketing not separate from. You try and separate them at one point and then put them together at another. My point is simple - if its an internet MARKETING strategy then yes the customer actually getting customers IS part of that. SO yes if I do SEO since it is a marekting strategy it MUST take into consideration my customer getting customers. Why is this such a hard thing to grasp? lolz

      I tell you why - because IMers are so used to cheap ranking on front page services

      You are more than an SEO, is my point, you are a bonafide internet marketer
      Heck no... you insult me with a smile. You can keep that one missy. The last freaking thing I want to be known as is an internet marketer . People talk about SEOmoz changing its name. I'll take SEO ANY DAY of the week over "internet marketer"

      What is a Bonafide Internet Marketer any way? An Imer with a Gold seal image on his sales page?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    SEO is a limited term. You know I don't know anyone other than you that says they are in the SEO-only business that I would trust any site with. A few years ago? Sure. Not now.

    The words are important. The times have changed. A lot of what used to work doesn't anymore. You know what kind of SEOs I have a lot of contact with these days? The ones who want to sell me on "keyword density" and "high quality profile links/blog commenting links"... I get a new bunch of them every week on Skype, looking for work.

    The terms are certainly related, never said they were't but that doesn't mean they are interchangable. All SEO can probably be qualified as internet markeing but not all internet marketing is SEO. Fair enough? SEO is the branch, IM is the tree.

    Has nothing to do with "moz" dropping the SEO from their name. I think they were late to the party.

    This reminds me of a client I have, he will give me info for an upcoming company event etc and ask me to please "SEO it" He's a layman, we are not. What's in a name? It is limiting, doesn't encompass everything that you and I do. Puts us on par with the linkbuilders (the horror!)

    For consumers SEO became fashionably synonymous with IM but it's just not two words for the same thing. SEO is the process of ranking a site. Search Engine Optimization. Not conversions, not anything other than what it is. You do X, Y, Z to the site, you do Z,Y,X offsite to rank that sucker and that is the beginning and end of the SEO part of IM.

    Even keyword research in the SEO sense of the word is all about comparing the numbers. The second you start looking at the big picture ie "This query isn't likely to convert" or "This query isn't likely to be searched by our targeted consumers" then you are thinking like a marketer (because you are considering the market (human consumers) not the cold machine which is the search engine.) Don't sell yourself short.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      SEO is a limited term. You know I don't know anyone other than you that says they are in the SEO-only business that I would trust any site with.
      And where did I even say that? I don't recall having a conversation about what business I am "only in" only what I and many SEOs consider part of SEO. As for who to trust frankly if I were a business its your SEO I would not trust. Its limited yes TO YOU where to me it involves what the customer hired me for - getting real customers.

      Puts us on par with the linkbuilders (the horror!)
      Well to me we are talking about two different things. You are talking about how being an SEO is perceived and I am talking about whats involved in SEO. Your own reference of wikipedia states as clear as day that SEO is a marketing strategy. when you can show me that a marketing strategy does not concern itself with customer's actually getting customers I will buy your interpretation

      Not conversions, not anything other than what it is. You do X, Y, Z to the site, you do Z,Y,X offsite to rank that sucker and that is the beginning and end of the SEO part of IM.
      See? SEO is a commodity. So much of this and so much of that. Push some buttons install a SEO plugin get a $7 article rinse repeat. Thats what you claim SEO is check check check done. Frankly some of that mentality is what junked up SEO so that people no longer want to be associated with it. Now do I do some of that? yes on lower paying clients thats all you can do But what you guys just cannot get to save your life is that there is a whole SEO world out there beyond WF and what I call IMer SEO.

      you illustrate this perfectly here

      keyword research in the SEO sense of the word is all about comparing the numbers. The second you start looking at the big picture ie "This query isn't likely to convert" or "This query isn't likely to be searched by our targeted consumers" then you are thinking like a marketer
      See? You have no idea that many a professional SEO company spends a good amount of time interviewing the customer about their business, his products and his ROI. IMer SEO cares nothing about that because IMer SEO never intends on working contacts for natural links within the customers business niches and IMer SEO gets business and reputation among Imers for "ranking first page" rather than ROI which is all that gets business customers talking. Sorry theres no way a professional SEO working for a real business can separate monetization from keyword research. Its part of the deal and you separating that just shows we are on vastly different pages and will never agree.

      Don't sell yourself short.
      I don't and neither does JR we just have a wider scope for what SEO really is.
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  • Profile picture of the author squadron
    Originally Posted by AbhijitGaba View Post

    I have decided that I want to start a Small Seo Business.I wanted to know if there was any authority course or any other source of information which I could refer to for better understanding.Any suggestions ?
    I'd suggest you start with the Amazon Book store and read the reviews. There's one there available for Kindle for $3.99 that looks pretty interesting. It's only 80 pages long but it has pretty good reviews and is a recent release.

    Amazon.com: seo: Books

    In my experience, the easy part in setting up and running an SEO business is doing the SEO, the more difficult bit is getting the clients to start with.

    Good luck with your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Super Warrior
    Yukon is obsessed with the thought that sharing conversion data is like handing over
    the keys of business to someone, but it's not the case. You can share (& compare) traffic
    & conversion data easily without disclosing anything significant with your SEO company.

    It's pity that a thread which was started by someone asking for the *help* on SEO turned
    into a mess and (un)thoughtful posting which is taking the discussion to nowhere.

    To OP: I use Squidoo, Warrior Forum SEO forum & Slideshare to learn SEO stuff
    More importantly, applying, testing, and repeating is the key.
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    WARNING:: Wasting time on Facebook? Make $500 in just 24 Hours with this simple strategy!
    Get Free PDF (Direct download, no opt-in required)-->> Read It Now
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  • Profile picture of the author Rajinder
    I am expert in Local SEO for USA. let me know if you are targeting USA.I can help you.

    Thanks,
    Rajinder
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