Penguin 2.0 - Possible SERP Armageddon On It's Way - Batten Down The Hatches, Gang!

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Well...

The long-awaited Penguin 2.0. The Backlink Update to End all Backlink Updates is on its way.

Could this be the final nail in the coffin for many SEOs and Internet marketers?



Are you concerned about this newest Penguin? Weigh in below!
#armageddon #batten #gang #hatches #penguin #serp
  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    Let's see how bad they'll f*ck it up this time
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Brilliant, it's been too long since a decent update to wipe out all the low value websites again.

    I love these updates because they let the cream rise to the top.
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    nothing to see here.

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    • Profile picture of the author Cash37
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Brilliant, it's been too long since a decent update to wipe out all the low value websites again.

      I love these updates because they let the cream rise to the top.
      Cream?

      All they do is push brands.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Cash37 View Post

        Cream?

        All they do is push brands.
        A typical answer from someone who has a hard time ranking his site.

        While in fact it's more easy then ever to achieve top rankings.

        Sure, some automated tool or 3 page site often won't get you there anymore.
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    • Profile picture of the author discustipated
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Brilliant, it's been too long since a decent update to wipe out all the low value websites again.

      I love these updates because they let the cream rise to the top.
      When search engine do you use? I always see MORE crap rise to the top.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by discustipated View Post

        When search engine do you use? I always see MORE crap rise to the top.
        Google usually. I only see the crap rise briefly and then drop again. Google are clear about what they want to show up.
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        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Google usually. I only see the crap rise briefly and then drop again. Google are clear about what they want to show up.
          This is what it sort of looks like to me right now.

          There are 10 - count'em 10 - EMDs ranking in the Top 10 for a keyword where I used to rank number 1. I was knocked back to page 2 but a surprising volume of people are coming in from Page 2!

          The top sites are all cookie cutter Sniper sites.
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          • Profile picture of the author rjames
            lol...I love the people who live for these updates...they aren't smart enough to rank a site in the current environment, so they just adopt a 'hope' strategy and sit around hoping the next update will come out and put their site on top because its "good quality"...hope is not a strategy...
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            • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
              Originally Posted by rjames View Post

              lol...I love the people who live for these updates...they aren't smart enough to rank a site in the current environment, so they just adopt a 'hope' strategy and sit around hoping the next update will come out and put their site on top because its "good quality"...hope is not a strategy...
              Who are you referring to?

              I'm not relying on 'hope.'

              I'm ready for this Google update - whichever direction they go in.
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              • Profile picture of the author rjames
                Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

                Who are you referring to?

                I'm not relying on 'hope.'

                I'm ready for this Google update - whichever direction they go in.
                im referring to anyone who has this pipe dream of google somehow rewarding sites with "quality" content when new algos come out...google does not know the difference between 'quality' content and crap...if it did, you wouldnt need an algo at all (a math problem with quantifiable info loaded into it that spits out a value...the higher the value the higher the rank)...quality content in itself will never ever be rewarded...google cant quantify it, so it cant measure it...thats all im saying...every time i see the words "quality content" it makes me laugh...
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                • Profile picture of the author YellowGreenMedia
                  Originally Posted by rjames View Post

                  im referring to anyone who has this pipe dream of google somehow rewarding sites with "quality" content when new algos come out...google does not know the difference between 'quality' content and crap...if it did, you wouldnt need an algo at all (a math problem with quantifiable info loaded into it that spits out a value...the higher the value the higher the rank)...quality content in itself will never ever be rewarded...google cant quantify it, so it cant measure it...thats all im saying...every time i see the words "quality content" it makes me laugh...
                  Woowww someone who "gets" it, you sir are of a rare bread here at WF
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    • Profile picture of the author goindeep
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Brilliant, it's been too long since a decent update to wipe out all the low value websites again.

      I love these updates because they let the cream rise to the top.
      I agree 100%

      Why are people scared?

      Its because they know they pursue their SEO goals by cramming the net with crap content and spammy links.
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

        I agree 100%

        Why are people scared?

        Its because they know they pursue their SEO goals by cramming the net with crap content and spammy links.
        Everyone - including so-called 'White Hats'- should be scared every time Google updates. Search engine traffic is transient. Even when times are good and you're raking it in - the end can come instantly.

        Google has made it so that it's a nerve-wracking proposition to try and rely on their traffic.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          Everyone - including so-called 'White Hats'- should be scared every time Google updates. Search engine traffic is transient. Even when times are good and you're raking it in - the end can come instantly.

          Google has made it so that it's a nerve-wracking proposition to try and rely on their traffic.
          Bah... that's just something people say when they're 100% dependent on the SERPs for traffic.
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          • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Bah... that's just something people say when they're 100% dependent on the SERPs for traffic.
            I'm afraid I don't get what you said here.

            I personally am not 100% dependent on SERPs. Only a true f**king idiot would be these days

            My point was, wearing a 'White Hat' isn't going to save people from an update. Just following guidelines is a start, but is no guarantee of success.
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
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              Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

              I'm afraid I don't get what you said here.

              I personally am not 100% dependent on SERPs. Only a true f**king idiot would be these days

              My point was, wearing a 'White Hat' isn't going to save people from an update. Just following guidelines is a start, but is no guarantee of success.
              There must be a lot of f**king idiots walking the halls around here because a lot of these guys are 100% dependent on the SERPs, look at all the Penguin 2.0 threads.

              I haven't seen any changes since last week but everything settled down & went back like nothing ever happened. Even If I did see changes I wouldn't touch a thing for at least week or two just to see If the SERPs settle down. Meanwhile I still have traffic coming in from other sources.
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              • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
                Originally Posted by yukon View Post

                There must be a lot of f**king idiots walking the halls around here because a lot of these guys are 100% dependent on the SERPs, look at all the Penguin 2.0 threads.

                I haven't seen any changes since last week but everything settled down & went back like nothing ever happened. Even If I did see changes I wouldn't touch a thing for at least week or two just to see If the SERPs settle down. Meanwhile I still have traffic coming in from other sources.
                I agree. These SERPs don't look that impressive yet. There could be adjustments like there always are.

                Yes, Warrior Forum does have a lot of people relying on SERPs. I think when people start out as affiliate marketers they tend to follow the prevailing wisdom. That wisdom has always said the organic Google traffic is the best source for affiliates.

                In 2013, people would be crazy not to experiment with every source they can find
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        • Profile picture of the author TZ
          Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

          Everyone - including so-called 'White Hats'- should be scared every time Google updates. Search engine traffic is transient. Even when times are good and you're raking it in - the end can come instantly.

          Google has made it so that it's a nerve-wracking proposition to try and rely on their traffic.
          Well....not really if you think long-term. I believe that if your site(s) all simply publish really good content, and you don't take part in any risky linking schemes your ranking should be fairly consistent no matter what updates Google makes.

          That's what we have seen in the last decade. Hell, a good example would be Steve Pavlina's blog - the guy has never swapped a link, sold a link, bought a link, begged a link, or stole a link. All he does is write content on a very bland Wordpress theme - NOTHING fancy. He doesn't even bother allowing commenting anymore, and he doesn't even add images - just raw text.

          He averages 250,000 unique visitors a month - so what say you my linking lovers?
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          • Profile picture of the author netherlands10
            Originally Posted by TZ View Post

            Well....not really if you think long-term. I believe that if your site(s) all simply publish really good content, and you don't take part in any risky linking schemes your ranking should be fairly consistent no matter what updates Google makes.

            That's what we have seen in the last decade. Hell, a good example would be Steve Pavlina's blog - the guy has never swapped a link, sold a link, bought a link, begged a link, or stole a link. All he does is write content on a very bland Wordpress theme - NOTHING fancy. He doesn't even bother allowing commenting anymore, and he doesn't even add images - just raw text.

            He averages 250,000 unique visitors a month - so what say you my linking lovers?
            I think you've hit the nail on the head. We were absolutely raped during the first Penguin update(s) and only on sites we had spent time promoting, despite them having great content. Some of these have recovered during this update (no idea why?) but the others, just good content, continue to rank well and have seen 'over promoted sites' (often new competitors) fall behind us again.
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            • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
              Originally Posted by netherlands10 View Post

              I think you've hit the nail on the head. We were absolutely raped during the first Penguin update(s) and only on sites we had spent time promoting, despite them having great content. Some of these have recovered during this update (no idea why?) but the others, just good content, continue to rank well and have seen 'over promoted sites' (often new competitors) fall behind us again.
              This makes sense too. If all the competitors are devalued by link penalties the 'cleanest' sites have a chance at winning.

              That's what Cutts sold us in the video. If it happens, I'm all for it.

              Avoiding link penalties is the new link building
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          • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
            Originally Posted by TZ View Post

            Well....not really if you think long-term. I believe that if your site(s) all simply publish really good content, and you don't take part in any risky linking schemes your ranking should be fairly consistent no matter what updates Google makes.

            That's what we have seen in the last decade. Hell, a good example would be Steve Pavlina's blog - the guy has never swapped a link, sold a link, bought a link, begged a link, or stole a link. All he does is write content on a very bland Wordpress theme - NOTHING fancy. He doesn't even bother allowing commenting anymore, and he doesn't even add images - just raw text.

            He averages 250,000 unique visitors a month - so what say you my linking lovers?
            He's a bad example because his success is largely based on his starting that site in 2004. It was much easier to attract 'natural links' and build authority prior to 2010 because people linked differently than they do now.

            I'd like to see Steve Pavlina start that blog in 2013 and get anywhere near the level of success he's at. He's a fluke from a woebegone era.

            And that's coming from a person who basically thinks link building is dead as a doornail and that content quality matters.
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  • Profile picture of the author GodMode52
    This one is going to be epic.Let's see what have we learnt with the 1.0.



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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Oh, it'll be alright - I've been spamming thousands of wikis, profiles and blog comments to my penguin 2.0s!
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    I wonder by how much their PPC revenue will jump after this update.
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    • Profile picture of the author chanel26
      Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

      I wonder by how much their PPC revenue will jump after this update.
      Time to buy Google stocks?

      I think we all should focus on bringing unique quality content for our visitors.
      There is no short cut
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    • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
      Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

      I wonder by how much their PPC revenue will jump after this update.
      Interesting this is brought up. I got a letter from Google a couple of days ago inviting me back into Adwords after they killed my account when they wiped out thousands of accounts a few years back. Not only did they offer to bring my account back online again but also offered $100 credit when I dropped 25 into my old Adwords account.
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  • Profile picture of the author remodeler
    Of course it will be followed by a host of new WSO's on how to get back those rankings...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Alright who is going to hold the pot? We need to get a forum pool going. I'll put down a 20 on number 7

    Thats 7 threads in the first week after the algo goes live saying that SEO is dead.
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    • Profile picture of the author ronaldec
      You forgot to add the dozens of WSO of "SEO is dead(again) here's my WSO to help". I'm always amazed as to how quick they can come out with this junk. So I'm betting there will be 30 WSO the first month. One for each day.
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    I think the better pool will be how many sh*tty websites will rank on the 1st page for keywords with high PPC cost, so they can compensate their 3% drop in PPC revenue
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

      I think the better pool will be how many sh*tty websites will rank on the 1st page for keywords with high PPC cost, so they can compensate their 3% drop in PPC revenue
      Lol, I watched that very thing happen yesterday in my niche for a few of my best keywords. Old over optimized sites were floating to the top of the SERPs like it was 2004.

      It's tempting to over optimize a separate domain in the same niche on purpose just to catch those days/weeks/months when Google shakes up the SERPs.
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      • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Lol, I watched that very thing happen yesterday in my niche for a few of my best keywords. Old over optimized sites were floating to the top of the SERPs like it was 2004.

        It's tempting to over optimize a separate domain in the same niche on purpose just to catch those days/weeks/months when Google shakes up the SERPs.
        It seems like those sh*t sites still ranking ...
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  • Profile picture of the author trade4861
    In the last two days, 2 of my websites seen a 25% decrease in traffic. The two days before that they seen a 25% increase in traffic. Don’t know whats going on but I haven’t participated in link building on those sites, and those websites have content written by experts in the field. Content that rivals wikapedia content. So maybe white hat is affected to.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I think something happened yesterday & then they switched back to the previous algo. again in the same day. I had ranked pages move that almost never move, everything eventually settled back down like nothing happened.

    I don't usually go along with the sky is falling threads, but I have a feeling Google is going to shake things up soon. Yesterday looked like they were testing something new & it did bring old over optimized domains back to the top of the SERPs (at least in my niche).

    What I've learned about Google is, have multiple domains in the same niche, don't panic or change anything when Google shakes up the SERPs wait it out because ranked pages sometimes fall right back into place when everything settles down.
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  • Profile picture of the author trade4861
    I got a couple "experimental" websites which violate every Google police ever written (except link building). Seen no fluctuation at all for those sites. Its almost stupid not to have a few throwaway websites.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    What I've learned about Google is, have multiple domains in the same niche
    Couldn't agree more.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    What would you do if you were the Penguin Master and you saw the havoc (apparently) that you had wrecked on webmasters at forums such as this? You'd be going it again. You'd have been looking at networks to take down (possibly with the help of the G disavow tool). You'd be looking at all the attempted recovery work and the services that had spawned up to be Penguin-proof, Penguin recovery. You'd be looking at mass de-indexing/devaluing unnaturally linked web 2.0 properties and the links from there on out and sites that were relying on OBVIOUS rejuvenation of expired (formally high PR)domains.
    That's what will happen. If it doesn't I still keep my day job and come back here in the evenings for fun, anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    I am just about to launch 20 Amazon sites/month. Perhaps I should delay it a bit now that the first 5 are build just to see what the new update brings?

    Nah, **** it, we go all the way and die with the ship when needed

    Very curious what this will bring though as Matt uses some strong words, but perhaps it's just another scare tactic.

    Silently I hope (well not so silent anymore) that they are after spun content as I'm avoiding that for quite a while now. Such update would really give me laughs big time. Or perhaps spammy tier 2 link building as people still think they can get away with 10,000's of blog comments as long as it's not directly pointed at their website.

    My only fear is that they kind of reset the link juice from high PR expired/dropped domains. That would be disastrous for the whole SEO industry. Although such scenario is incredibly unlikely as it would affect way too many real websites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Oranges
    It's okay now, Captain Cutts is here!

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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by Oranges View Post

      It's okay now, Captain Cutts is here!

      It was probably an intern that thought they were turning off the restroom light switch & shut down a data center.

      POWER! We need more POWER!
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    as Matt uses some strong words
    Yeah, but Nik0 he doesn't. It's all the furore from the so-called big SEO sites that says he does and perpetuates the myth. What Mr Cutts says is to expect Penguin 2.0 within the next few weeks. That's fine. Bring it on.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
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      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      Yeah, but Nik0 he doesn't. It's all the furore from the so-called big SEO sites that says he does and perpetuates the myth. What Mr Cutts says is to expect Penguin 2.0 within the next few weeks. That's fine. Bring it on.
      Didn't he say something that this update will make everyone shake on their boots or in a more mild way that it would be the most bespoken update. I remember something like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Seobizz
    I'm not worried about my websites, they have survived all of the google updates and still have page one rankings to this day. My trick was to find the right keywords and not build too many spam backlinks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Oranges
      Originally Posted by Seobizz View Post

      I'm not worried about my websites, they have survived all of the google updates and still have page one rankings to this day. My trick was to find the right keywords and not build too many spam backlinks.
      Amazing! Should i 2-tier backlink my Angela profile links? What's your thoughts on Captain America?
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by Seobizz View Post

      I'm not worried about my websites, they have survived all of the google updates and still have page one rankings to this day. My trick was to find the right keywords and not build too many spam backlinks.
      Been there, done that with quality links & still watched old pages that have been ranked (like a rock) for years move around the first page of the SERPs like quality backlinks were dropping off. My pages eventually went back to ranking like nothing ever happened.

      I'm not going into panic mode or anything, but I watched some old over optimized sites moving up to #1 position, then back down to the bottom of the first search page for a few same niche keywords.

      If yesterday was an idicator of what they're working on for the next major update, I'm sure it won't be pretty.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Tribute to all those IMers that ranked their first keyword, right before Google pulled the plug.



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    • Profile picture of the author dave6166
      Hahahah briljant! :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Possible areas that could be impacted negatively?
    • Guest blog posting.
    • Web 2.0 properties.
    • Blog commenting.

    If the trend towards link devaluation accelerates too rapidly in the next 60 days or so people are going to need a PLAN B very soon.

    I feel the real key heading into an update like this is to have a number of different tactics in play so that the losses from any sites hit by Penguin 2.0 are offset by the ones that gain from it.

    This is a bad time to have all the old eggs in one basket!
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  • Profile picture of the author 36burrows
    Cutts does this for every pre-announced update. Hypes the crap out of it with big scary words in an attempt to get everyone talking about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author fortony
    If you don't do much SEO, you dont have much to lose!
    I'm not one of those saying SEO does not matter though. I think it does.
    However, since last year, I've decided to concentrate almost entirely on content and only do some SEO here and there. It is just not worth it knowing your work might be mostly taken away from you in the next update.
    Content is one thing they cannot take away!
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    • Profile picture of the author darrenlc
      I've noticed a small drop the last few days followed by a recovery. All updates before were sharp rises followed by a tanking so I'm not too worried yet. One thing Google did teach me was to go out and get a job and work on other peoples sites instead and then any income from my sites is a bonus. Won't lose any sleep if I get tanked again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    google does not know the difference between 'quality' content and crap
    every time i see the words "quality content" it makes me laugh...
    Don't laugh too hard. You might miss your education.

    When someone advises you to have "quality content".
    They are not referring solely to the words or grammar presented on a given page.

    Here's a few indicator's of "quality content"
    1. Good keyword research. (Market Targeted)
    2. Good Content structure and format (On-Page Optimization)
    3. Targeted to the search query that brought a user to your page. (Relevance)
    4. Well Written/Designed (User Engagement)

    Here's a few indicator's how Google can quantify your "quality content"
    1. Relevance
    2. Bounce Rate
    3. User Engagement
    4. Bookmarking/Social Sharing
    5. Return Visitors
    6. Manual Search Quality Reviews
    7. Backlinks

    This list is Non-Exhaustive. Just a quick sample of quantifiable factors Google uses to determine "quality content".
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    • Profile picture of the author rjames
      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      Don't laugh too hard. You might miss your education.

      When someone advises you to have "quality content".
      They are not referring solely to the words or grammar presented on a given page.

      Here's a few indicator's of "quality content"
      1. Good keyword research. (Market Targeted)
      2. Good Content structure and format (On-Page Optimization)
      3. Targeted to the search query that brought a user to your page. (Relevance)
      4. Well Written/Designed (User Engagement)

      Here's a few indicator's how Google can quantify your "quality content"
      1. Relevance
      2. Bounce Rate
      3. User Engagement
      4. Bookmarking/Social Sharing
      5. Return Visitors
      6. Manual Search Quality Reviews
      7. Backlinks

      This list is Non-Exhaustive. Just a quick sample of quantifiable factors Google uses to determine "quality content".
      Thanks for proving my point exactly...writing quality content doesn't cause your site to rank...
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    I love the drama of an good algo update. This is like the SEO Superbowl. Best of luck gentlemen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Beardo
    And always remember "Duck and Cover"
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  • Profile picture of the author fever
    as long as every keyword has 10 results on SERP, seo will be alive
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  • Profile picture of the author jxam69
    Here's an update from Matt Cutts outlining the likely updates over summer....

    What to expect in SEO in the coming months
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by jxam69 View Post

      Here's an update from Matt Cutts outlining the likely updates over summer....

      What to expect in SEO in the coming months
      Cutts seems really direct in this post.

      It looks like Google has finally amassed enough technology to really go after 'low level links.'

      After six months of getting 'link disavowal' requests from webmasters they were able to determine most of the tricks used by current SEOs so they could devise a plan to combat them.

      At least they're warning people before unleashing this beast!
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  • Profile picture of the author igl0w
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    • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
      OOo, I look forward to this one!

      I hope they let their largest dragons loose and have them pumped up with kerosene galore.

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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Let me be honest, I hope that recently they did a little test, because all of my keywords went up.

    Now they are back down to number 8

    I build contextual links, generally from blog sites and networks, honestly I can't really see how google will stop that other than manually shutting down networks. But I guess we'll see.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amod Oke
    Thanks for proving my point exactly...writing quality content doesn't cause your site to rank...
    It might not help to rank, but all the points mentioned will definitely help to sustain any ranking you might have or will get.

    Time to buy Google stocks?
    Sounds like a good plan for SEO'ers, wait for updates, load up on stocks!
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  • Profile picture of the author 36burrows
    SEO Doom, I love it. Never gets old.
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  • Profile picture of the author internalsoul
    This time its gonna be big. Already there are signs of giving value to old and authority sites and killing spam blogs/sites. So its just a wait and watch game now.
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    • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
      Originally Posted by internalsoul View Post

      This time its gonna be big. Already there are signs of giving value to old and authority sites and killing spam blogs/sites. So its just a wait and watch game now.
      Yeah, that's why this 1 page site hosted on webs with SPUN content is ranking #10 for the keyword "how to lose weight fast" with 90k exact monthly searches, correct?

      howtoloseweightfastforwomen.webs.com
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      • Profile picture of the author internalsoul
        Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

        Yeah, that's why this 1 page site hosted on webs with SPUN content is ranking #10 for the keyword "how to lose weight fast" with 90k exact monthly searches, correct?

        howtoloseweightfastforwomen.webs.com
        They haven't rolled out their updates completely. have they? Dont, you think there has been no 100% bug free algo update, if it would have been then they would never go for other updated versions.In past 2 years they have shaken the whole web world with their updates and i said this time it will be big. Never said they will be 100% successful, there will always be exceptions. For the site and niche you mentioned, keep an eye on it and see how long it sustains there..
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        • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
          Originally Posted by internalsoul View Post

          They haven't rolled out their updates completely. have they? Dont, you think there has been no 100% bug free algo update, if it would have been then they would never go for other updated versions.In past 2 years they have shaken the whole web world with their updates and i said this time it will be big. Never said they will be 100% successful, there will always be exceptions. For the site and niche you mentioned, keep an eye on it and see how long it sustains there..
          Pleeeaaseee, it's funny how with every update they get it wrong ... That site has been ranking there since December ... I can also show you 100's of other sites in different niches that are ranking when they shouldn't. Spun content with xRumer backlinks ...
          When people start realizing that Google don't give a f*ck about user experience?
          It's not a search engine anymore, its a business. Their PPC drop, they roll out an update to push more businesses to Adwords. Compare the search results from 2 years ago and now and you'll see how quality of search went down hill.

          And honestly, just like YellowGreenMedia said, how many ppl going to share your business, affiliate or dropshipping website or backlink to it???? 0 to none! Just think about it, let's say you need a new computer, you do Google search for "buy a computer", click on the 1st result > purchase your desired computer and then close the browser, you don't go and start tweeting about the site or create links to the site from your blog or somewhere else. This whole BS of "get natural backlinks" ONLY works in the entertainment / news industry.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

            This whole BS of "get natural backlinks" ONLY works in the entertainment / news industry.
            Thats not true at all and it has been debunked here many many times. Of course it depends on your definition of natural. Not even in white hat backlink building is it just based on content. There is always promotion involved but NO and CATEGORICALLY NO. You do not always have to buy or place the links yourself.
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            • Profile picture of the author deezn
              A big time PI lawyer, runs charity contests in his town. $1,000 or whatever, to a charity that links to his website. Winner picked by random.

              He also gives away bikes to kids. Lots of links that way.

              Etc. etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheFBGuy
        Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

        Yeah, that's why this 1 page site hosted on webs with SPUN content is ranking #10 for the keyword "how to lose weight fast" with 90k exact monthly searches, correct?

        howtoloseweightfastforwomen.webs.com
        Its now number 3, lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
    I will be sitting back and watching...

    Fingers crossed its not as bad as everybody thinks....
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  • Profile picture of the author chandan_dutta
    Like any other technology, Google will also keep on updating their algo. I don't think we should be worried about the update. Instead we should give more importance on how to survive or implementing better plans for coming days. Staying positive is important at this stage.

    Anyway, I got my lesson in the last update. So, now not giving importance only to Google. There are lot others to think - social media, video, banner advertising etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by chandan_dutta View Post

      Like any other technology, Google will also keep on updating their algo. I don't think we should be worried about the update. Instead we should give more importance on how to survive or implementing better plans for coming days. Staying positive is important at this stage.

      Anyway, I got my lesson in the last update. So, now not giving importance only to Google. There are lot others to think - social media, video, banner advertising etc.
      According to Cutts in his video it's easy to achieve those things.

      Build a site that people 'bookmark' and 'share' and tell their friends about and you'll do great going forward.

      He even goes so far as to say that Black Hat link builders will be wiped out by the end of Summer. If that's true, White Hat SEOs would finally have a chance to move up.

      We've all heard this before, but not as explicitly as he stated it this time. Apparently their 'webspam' detection technology has moved forward significantly.
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      • Profile picture of the author YellowGreenMedia
        Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

        According to Cutts in his video it's easy to achieve those things.

        Build a site that people 'bookmark' and 'share' and tell their friends about and you'll do great going forward.
        This philosophy of google is flawed, people rarely share a website, let alone bookmark or backlink it (only in certain niches like entertainment and news).

        Most websites are business sites that will always have to build their links themselves or else they never would get a link, the idea of Google (and a lot of people here) is that if you build a site with (and this phrase really starts to get on my nerves) "great content" links will magically appear.

        That doesn't happen in the real world, if you're lucky a friend and maybe your mom will tweet and facebook about your new website and that is it, great two nofollow links that will kick some virtual asses.

        Mark my words this new update that Cutts is scaring everybody with is just a way to force webmasters to go with adwords, look at all the local serps (somthing i work in) no matter what country you look the first pages are always yellowpages and phonebook sites, in the states it is angielist, Yelp in the UK it is indeed, gumtree and yell.

        These sites have no quality content to speak of, nor bring they a great user experience (the so called business mission of Google :rolleyes there are thousands upon thousands of real local sites of local businesses that have what the searcher is searching for... but still they have to wade true tons of these type of directories.

        Why? to force these local businesses to pay for Adwords of course, now they have their new call thingie so having your phonenumber in your Adword ads is forbidden, because Google thinks only of one thing and that is their bottom line.

        And this update will push more businesses to adwords, i can't wait for Bing to kick Googles ass.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia View Post

          because Google thinks only of one thing and that is their bottom line.

          And this update will push more businesses to adwords, i can't wait for Bing to kick Googles ass.
          Although about 80% of Imer's rage against Google is just sour grapes I don't think there is any doubt that they have done a fine job brainwashing people that they do not operate on the basis of cash but on the basis of helping users.

          Having the top three slots sold to the highest bidder in every serp confuses many users I have seen using Google and has nothing to do with serving the public.

          however as for waiting around for Bing to kick Google's ass. All I can say is - I hope they have good high speed internet available in your retirement home.
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          • Profile picture of the author YellowGreenMedia
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            however as for waiting around for Bing to kick Google's ass. All I can say is - I hope they have good high speed internet available in your retirement home.
            I think in 50 years from now they will have replace internet with some mind thingy that connects us all and Google and Bing will be obsolete, and nobody will be bitching about backlinks anymore
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            • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
              Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia View Post

              I think in 50 years from now they will have replace internet with some mind thingy that connects us all and Google and Bing will be obsolete, and nobody will be bitching about backlinks anymore
              They'll be bitching about backthinks instead.
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        • Profile picture of the author getin2learn
          Originally Posted by YellowGreenMedia View Post


          That doesn't happen in the real world, if you're lucky a friend and maybe your mom will tweet and facebook about your new website and that is it, great two nofollow links that will kick some virtual asses.
          Those G guys act as if they are not living in this world (which is not strange at all, since they live in Googleland).
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post


        We've all heard this before, but not as explicitly as he stated it this time. Apparently their 'webspam' detection technology has moved forward significantly.

        Yeah plus saying in spring that by summer these things will be done makes it a pretty sure bet something is going to happen and its not just talk.
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        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Yeah plus saying in spring that by summer these things will be done makes it a pretty sure bet something is going to happen and its not just talk.
          If Cutts really does 'cutt' off many SEO tricks, it would make doing SEO a whole lot easier in many ways.

          Attempting to continuously manufacture 'tier after tier' of backlinks is 1) expensive and 2) time-consuming. Doing so doesn't allow much time for building site quality.

          There has always been a huge incentive for people to take these shortcuts and concentrate on linking over site improvements. If this Penguin update meets what he outlines it will do - then the incentive is there for people to quit all the linking and concentrate on better sites.

          I'm sure it's possible...
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          • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
            Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

            If Cutts really does 'cutt' off many SEO tricks, it would make doing SEO a whole lot easier in many ways.

            Attempting to continuously manufacture 'tier after tier' of backlinks is 1) expensive and 2) time-consuming. Doing so doesn't allow much time for building site quality.

            There has always been a huge incentive for people to take these shortcuts and concentrate on linking over site improvements. If this Penguin update meets what he outlines it will do - then the incentive is there for people to quit all the linking and concentrate on better sites.

            I'm sure it's possible...
            When are you going to stop living in a dreamland???? Google don't know better between sh*tty designed site with spun content and well designed site vs quality content.
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            • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
              Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

              When are you going to stop living in a dreamland???? Google don't know better between sh*tty designed site with spun content and well designed site vs quality content.
              So you dont think google can spot spun content....

              I think it can.....
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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Bradley
                Originally Posted by Danny Cutts View Post

                So you dont think google can spot spun content....

                I think it can.....
                I think they can too, especially when they do a manual review.
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                • Profile picture of the author pdrs
                  Originally Posted by Mark Bradley View Post

                  I think they can too, especially when they do a manual review.
                  Can't tell if you are being sarcastic...
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                  • Profile picture of the author gzibell
                    Just was reading through this post and recently in my are/nich I have been taken out of #1 by a yellowpages search results page for nich area search. I had been riding the #1 spot for a month or so and this just popped up earlier this week. I am now showing #2 spot which I am not real upset about it.
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              • Profile picture of the author williamstraus
                Originally Posted by Danny Cutts View Post

                So you dont think google can spot spun content....

                I think it can.....
                Dude. Human beings cannot spot spun content. Spun content that is carefully put together is 100% human readable.
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                • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
                  Originally Posted by williamstraus View Post

                  Dude. Human beings cannot spot spun content. Spun content that is carefully put together is 100% human readable.
                  g

                  I still think google can spot it....
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                  • Profile picture of the author danparks
                    Originally Posted by williamstraus View Post

                    Dude. Human beings cannot spot spun content. Spun content that is carefully put together is 100% human readable.
                    Originally Posted by Danny Cutts View Post

                    g

                    I still think google can spot it....
                    You're probably thinking about how many (most?) people spin articles. Using "auto" to let the software do all the work and ending up with an almost unreadable article, or just spending a few minutes spinning such that each version ends up not being very unique. Then you're right, google can, or in the near future will be able to, spot spun content.

                    But not if done as williamstraus is hinting at. Some people spin at the word, sentence and paragraph level, manually picking many variants from the thesaurus, and end up with spintax that gives 90%, 95%, even 98% uniqueness. Each version doesn't even vaguely resemble any other version of the article. Spun right, google can't and won't spot it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
                      Originally Posted by danparks View Post

                      You're probably thinking about how many (most?) people spin articles. Using "auto" to let the software do all the work and ending up with an almost unreadable article, or just spending a few minutes spinning such that each version ends up not being very unique. Then you're right, google can, or in the near future will be able to, spot spun content.

                      But not if done as williamstraus is hinting at. Some people spin at the word, sentence and paragraph level, manually picking many variants from the thesaurus, and end up with spintax that gives 90%, 95%, even 98% uniqueness. Each version doesn't even vaguely resemble any other version of the article. Spun right, google can't and won't spot it.
                      Yes and no....

                      The code that you use {first word|secondword} etc etc I think the Big G can see that... or am I barking up at the wrong tree?

                      Danny
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                      • Profile picture of the author danparks
                        Originally Posted by Danny Cutts View Post

                        Yes and no....

                        The code that you use {first word|secondword} etc etc I think the Big G can see that... or am I barking up at the wrong tree?

                        Danny
                        No, Google can't see that. You take your spintax, with the code, and generate any number of articles from that. Each article doesn't contain any code - it's just text like any other article. Then you post one of your generated articles wherever you want.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
                    Originally Posted by Danny Cutts View Post

                    g

                    I still think google can spot it....
                    If it's 100% human readable and 100% original how on earth would they do that?

                    They can't.
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                • Profile picture of the author goindeep
                  Originally Posted by williamstraus View Post

                  Dude. Human beings cannot spot spun content. Spun content that is carefully put together is 100% human readable.
                  Ive never in my entire online career seen one piece of spun content that read as if it was written by an articulate, English speaking human being.

                  Not saying its not out there and with the way technology is advancing towards AI no doubt its just around the corner... by that point you wont even need spun content because you can tell robot boy to just write stuff
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by goindeep View Post

                    Ive never in my entire online career seen one piece of spun content that read as if it was written by an articulate, English speaking human being.

                    Not saying its not out there and with the way technology is advancing towards AI no doubt its just around the corner... by that point you wont even need spun content because you can tell robot boy to just write stuff
                    He said carefully put together (careful implies human care) but here you have now seen it (compliments of chimprewriter and a few minutes of manual intervention)

                    Ive definitely not in my whole internet career viewed a single piece of written content that flowed like it had been crafted by an an Intelligent , English literate individual.

                    Not suggesting it does not exist and with the way technology advances is not going to be a reality soon... but by that time you wont even need content to be spun because you can tell an android to just create articles
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                    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      He said carefully put together (careful implies human care) but here you have now seen it (compliments of chimprewriter and a few minutes of manual intervention)
                      That's a pretty good spin.

                      Personally, I don't think Google is working on stopping 'spun content.' If their algorithm is as sophisticated as they say it is, the fact that spun content will generally be unloved should stop it from having a big impact in SERPs.

                      If they get rid of spreading much link juice from pages that don't have much link love, the problem is stopped without them having to specifically target the spun content. They don't have to target 'lousy English' for the same reason IMHO. Spinning is safe enough, but the backlink practices where it's used are more dangerous than ever.
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      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

        Build a site that people 'bookmark' and 'share' and tell their friends about and you'll do great going forward.
        Total BS from Cutts. If I buy a link to my site that doesn't affect the quality one bit, and Google has made the decision the sites it shows are not based on quality.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author G0nzalez
    Banned
    It's not a big thing. I only hope I'll don't get hit.
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  • Profile picture of the author josephseeley
    My mind is really put by me to it to shed Weight quickly! Too bad I am not a woman
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  • Profile picture of the author MarvyDery
    They can do whatever they want with their search engine. There will still be a way around it. I hope they don't screw up big this time
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I think Google/Matt are probably on a scare tactic mission. I have no doubts the average backlink buyer will panic, run straight to the disavow tool & reveal/confirm which links (networks) are paid links.

    Google created the ultimate lazy mans tool (disavow tool).

    Why screw around looking for link networks when Google can simply shake up the SERPs at random (not targeting anything), then sit back & let the disavow link reports flood in from webmasters in panic mode that are trying to save their own azz.

    When Google gets the data back simply count all the domains that are hits from multiple GWT accounts, the domains with the high number of disavow reports are the backlink network sources. Done.

    It's like watching a big bully on a playground twisting a nerds arm until he cries uncle, UNCLE!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I think Google/Matt are probably on a scare tactic mission. I have no doubts the average backlink buyer will panic, run straight to the disavow tool & reveal/confirm which links (networks) are paid links.

      Google created the ultimate lazy mans tool (disavow tool).

      Why screw around looking for link networks when Google can simply shake up the SERPs at random (not targeting anything), then sit back & let the disavow link reports flood in from webmasters in panic mode that are trying to save their own azz.

      When Google gets the data back simply count all the domains that are hits from multiple GWT accounts, the domains with the high number of disavow reports are the backlink network sources. Done.

      It's like watching a big bully on a playground twisting a nerds arm until he cries uncle, UNCLE!!!!
      I suppose Google could be using the disavow tool for the state purposes. Hey, a boy can dream, right?

      But I think it's more likely that yukon is correct. It has to be a great source for gathering data (and a pretty massive amount of data) regarding "bad" link sources. The Cutts video we're talking about does mention that Google is working with ("munging" I believe he said) a large amount of data regarding bad sites. Hmmmmm, I wonder where all this data came from ...
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post


      Why screw around looking for link networks when Google can simply shake up the SERPs at random (not targeting anything), then sit back & let the disavow link reports flood in from webmasters in panic mode that are trying to save their own azz.
      Thing about it is the tool is relatively new. You just know there are some tools being built around the disavow too to red flag networks, link farms and ahem guest blogging sites (for pay). So far its been more of a network getting big enough to be on their radar but the disavow tool allows the radar to show besides you and say "hello" just because one crappy link renter customer decides to use the tool to try and save his one page MFA.

      Thats why I have contemplated offering services here a few times and so far always say no. Nik0 might dream that P2 will be great for business but the average WSO buyer isn't just trying one service. They are trying a crap load of other stuff that WILL tank their sites eventually. They then will go running to Google with ALL their links including service links that had nothing to do with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author danparks
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Thing about it is the tool is relatively new. You just know there are some tools being built around the disavow too to red flag networks, link farms and ahem guest blogging sites (for pay). So far its been more of a network getting big enough to be on their radar but the disavow tool allows the radar to show besides you and say "hello" just because one crappy link renter customer decides to use the tool to try and save his one page MFA.

        Thats why I have contemplated offering services here a few times and so far always say no. Nik0 might dream that P2 will be great for business but the average WSO buyer isn't just trying one service. They are trying a crap load of other stuff that WILL tank their sites eventually. They then will go running to Google with ALL their links including service links that had nothing to do with it.
        Embarrassingly, I need to ask - what is this "P2" you mention? Yes, I googled it first, too short of a keyword to quicky see how it fits here ;-)
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by danparks View Post

          Embarrassingly, I need to ask - what is this "P2" you mention? Yes, I googled it first, too short of a keyword to quicky see how it fits here ;-)
          Penguin 2.0. Come on man. How we going to sound like professionals without shrinking everything down to acronyms?
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          • Profile picture of the author danparks
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Penguin 2.0. Come on man. How we going to sound like professionals without shrinking everything down to acronyms?
            Got it. And you're right -- I think we should take it a step further and just refer to it "2".
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          • Profile picture of the author danparks
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Thats why I have contemplated offering services here a few times and so far always say no. Nik0 might dream that P2 will be great for business but the average WSO buyer isn't just trying one service. They are trying a crap load of other stuff that WILL tank their sites eventually. They then will go running to Google with ALL their links including service links that had nothing to do with it.
            Okay, now that I know you're referring to Penguin 2.0 ...

            I don't follow the forum religiously so I don't know the story on Nik0 and P2 (there, P2, I'm using it, you've won me over....), but in general, this makes sense. An SEO guy might see the chaos surrounding things link Panda and Penguin as a means to start a new SEO service or to promote an SEO service, but that seems a little shaky. That whole thing of how we SEO people often don't realize that site owners/business owners (real people, not us) don't follow all this SEO stuff/terminology/changes closely, if at all.

            Most site owners won't understand what some Penguin-specific or Panda-specific SEO package was about. And of those that do recognize those words, having them sign up with you could easily backfire. Because those people won't have a full understanding of it, and won't feel an obligation to your words of "let me handle this, and please don't go with additional services as that will just mess things up." Instead, that type of person will be in a panic about these dreaded Panda/Penguin changes, and will invariably go with your service AND go with some other packages ("I know he said not to, but it's only $49, and it's a 'guaranteed Penguin-killer,' so how can it hurt to add it. The more the better, right?").
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Penguin 2.0. Come on man. How we going to sound like professionals without shrinking everything down to acronyms?
            I thought Penguin was up to 4.0 now.
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            nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Nik0 might dream that P2 will be great for business but the average WSO buyer isn't just trying one service. They are trying a crap load of other stuff that WILL tank their sites eventually. They then will go running to Google with ALL their links including service links that had nothing to do with it.
        It's true that many people on IM forums run around like headless chickens buying service after service. That's why I'm already kind of seperating my monthly clients from my one time package clients as the monthly ones are on average a little more educated but perhaps it's a little late for that right now.

        Still I think I'm small enough to stay under the radar but with future expandings of my network it's definitely something to stay alert on and something I should make customers more aware of in my confirmation/delivery emails.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Ride the waves boys, we've got movement in Local. Loving it!

    @yukon... Amen brother, never used disavow never will. Like calling the cops to your crack house over a domestic squabble. Want them to poke around and see what else you have going on? My stuff is pretty clean, still not inviting them in.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      calling the cops to your crack house over a domestic squabble. Want them to poke around and see what else you have going on?
      Thats what I like about Wf. Every now and again people share things about their real life personal experiences. Its very enriching
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Thats what I like about Wf. Every now and again people share things about their real life personal experiences. Its very enriching
        Awww shucks, I'm just trying to take it down to a level where it's digestible to the masses. You just lost some folks at P2 (after an entire thread talking about Penguin 2) so excuse me for finger painting a "word picture" in the hopes that people will stop outting themselves to Google. It's a public service announcement.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Seems to me if you have your own high PR network and you haven't been selling links on it, you'll be in a better position than most. Pretty much what has been advocated by most of those in the know for the past year or so. If you weren't following things closely and have indulged in mass tier spamming only then you might be in for a surprise.
    Trouble is, I think many folks' SEO campaigns over the past year have involved a combo of high PR links and tier spamming of web 2.0s.
    It might be tricky yet, when the shit hits the fan, to distinguish exactly what has caused penalties or trust devaluation. In the case of the above kind of combos (and not a lot else) I'd expect a drop in rankings that is relatively easily recoverable. But this is all speculation, of course. I'm looking forward to a few public blog networks and SAPE style blackhat spam hacking *******s to really get beaten down to a pulp.
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  • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
    CONTENT IS KING!!!

    Sorry I LOL everytime I hear Cutts tell people all they have to do is focus on creating a great site and Google will make them millionaires.

    Penguin 2.0 will come, mess all the SERPs, and there will be tons of whining. Also expect tons of white hat collateral damage, tons of spam sites on top, and Matt Cutts will have to go into witness protection again.

    About a month later the resourceful SEO folk will have cracked the algorithm again and life will go on, while the rest will have to figure out another way out of mom's basement.

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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
    Well I have noticed a huge spike in ranking increases for one of my local sites... fingers crossed :-)

    Danny
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  • Profile picture of the author GourmetItalian
    I hope it will not affect too much on me with this new upcoming update. The best thing to do now is to think of new process in-order to maintain everything. Are they really planning on killing softly the SEO?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by GourmetItalian View Post

      Are they really planning on killing softly the SEO?
      If by "SEO" you mean that junk in your signature, then yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
    ^ They lost 3% of search share since Penguin due to sh*t results on the 1st page, so honestly I don't know wtf they thinking ... if they won't get it right Bing & Yahoo will catch up to them in a few years.
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    • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
      Originally Posted by TommoBedhair View Post

      Spam Spam Co. are actually offering a Penguin 4 Prevention Service. Get in touch for more info!
      WTF how do you prevent something you don't know anything about? Nobody outside of Google knows what the update is going to affect.

      That's like saying you found a vaccine for a disease that hasn't been discovered yet. :confused:

      Furthermore if a given site already has an SEO link profile in the Penguin 2.0 cross-hairs, there is little you can do to prevent them from sinking with the update only a few weeks away.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by TolyZ View Post

      ^ They lost 3% of search share since Penguin due to sh*t results on the 1st page, so honestly I don't know wtf they thinking ... if they won't get it right Bing & Yahoo will catch up to them in a few years.
      If that was true they must be pretty awesome to be able to have record earnings with a drop in search traffic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    The sky is falling!!

    Honestly, lets take a look at how things are going. Google hasn't been super specific, it looks like they might go after tiered linking, which I mean lets be honest, tiered linking is pretty random, the only way I can think of to take that out is to discount web 2.0s.

    Which will probably kill more white hat sites then the "dark side" of the internet.

    Google still has no way to attack private blog networks, that's why they have to de-index them manually.

    Sape is unfortunately still around.

    There are other networks like sape that are still live and kicking as well.

    Honestly I don't see how Google is going to deal with all of these problems, sounds more like they're just going to hit another one.

    But google is always changing like this. I mean heck, do you guys remember link rings or whatever they were called? Or heck, back when pligg sites were the way to go.

    Or even guestbooks, or heck, when web directories were a big deal...ok those can still help a bit.

    Always going to be changes, and SEO will always respond, It will be an on going battle as long as search engines exist.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikebashi
    I know I am new here and you might be saying what the hell does this guy know but I have been online since 1999 and this is my experience with the whole SEO game.

    It is worthless in my opinion and there is NO one way or one thing or even multiple things in this case that you can do to rank well.

    Of course there are always the basics like:

    1. quality content - which google refers to as Original content which those who do not know what quality means. What's on your website could be worthless but if the content on your website is only on your website and is related to a topic of choice then it is considered somewhat quality.

    2. back links.

    See when you hear Google, [Matt Cuts] always talking about penalizing paid links First, they will never even know a paid link from not a paid link unless it is an obvious link farm.
    But in all of his videos he has to talk the way he talks because it is all about engraving it in the minds of his listeners that you

    SHOULD NOT BUY LINKS
    SHOULD NOT BUY LINKS
    SHOULD NOT BUY LINKS
    SHOULD NOT BUY LINKS

    If you hear it enough times then you will start believing it and this is what he is doing.

    Now, I have done the whole SEO game for years and I was successful at it but I just gave up caring about what Google says and what Google wants and most people should too and here is why:

    1. Google will change their rules all the time
    2. Depending on SEO means you are constantly working on satisfying a search engine who does not give a crap about you instead of growing your own business/presence online.

    I say, focus on growing your traffic whether buying a backlink from a popular site that can get you direct traffic, or posting banners on blogs like from buyads.com or whatever you do. Even article marketing is still effective and it's FREE.
    Bottom line is diversify and spend money on immediate stable traffic.

    Once more people do that, they will start to see more money being generated for their business and not give a damn about what Google wants because let's face it, Google does not care about you period..

    And once Google sees that people do not care about their pathetic rules and updates anymore, they will start playing by our rules and being a bit nicer to us than they have been lately.

    But for SEO lovers out there, let me tell you the easy way to rank on search engines especially GOOGLE.

    "The less you know about SEO, the easier it is to rank"

    Why do I say that? Well because Google cares about quality and what they mean by that is to basically worry about your blog for example, worry about your readers, provide amazing service and amazing content and just do it without caring one bit about:

    1. keyword stuffing
    2. meta tags
    3. hyperlinking

    and much more.

    The more spontaneous everything looks on your website/blog the easier it is to rank because this is what Google wants. They want to randomly find you without you setting your website to be found and once they rank you in this manner, you can keep your ranking for a long time and never have to worry about getting slapped with any update and this is because you never did anything to begin with in order to get ranked; remember, they found you not the other way around.

    I can go on and on but this should get you thinking for now
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by mikebashi View Post

      They want to randomly find you without you setting your website to be found and once they rank you in this manner, you can keep your ranking for a long time and never have to worry about getting slapped with any update and this is because you never did anything to begin with in order to get ranked; remember, they found you not the other way around.

      I can go on and on but this should get you thinking for now
      That's a little naive.

      I have had many clients who want to be found for terms which are not in their content. They'd never be found in your model.
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      nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author mikebashi
        Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

        That's a little naive.

        I have had many clients who want to be found for terms which are not in their content. They'd never be found in your model.
        YES; and that is how Google Wants it, they want it so that if they wish to find you, then they will. These are not my rules. This is why in all my programs; I touch on the basics of SEO only but never in hard core details because by the time you teach something; oh guess what ??? it changed again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
    "Funny" about these updates is that you are not completely safe even if you have never done any black-hat stuff and you follow their guidelines to the letter.

    Below is the picture of how every Google's update worked so far (and I don't think it's about to change for future updates):





    So what they have to figure out basically is how to harm very few "natural" sites and get rid of as much as possible "seo" sites.

    Of course, we don't know the criteria yet but I believe this is what will happen shortly after the release.

    In fact, I believe they are already "trying" things out because one of my sites moved like +60 positions.

    It is not natural site either.

    It's EMD sniper site loaded with CB aff links.

    Weird/Cool



    Tibor
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  • Profile picture of the author elperuanito
    Lol, are you Becker or something or are you just his number 1 fan?

    (same infographic and same sig)
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    • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
      Originally Posted by elperuanito View Post

      Lol, are you Becker or something or are you just his number 1 fan?

      (same infographic and same sig)
      Hey who's Becker?
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Personally I've been witnessing tons of 'flux' since May 5th 2013. Google - to me - seems to be testing different data sets. I draw this conclusion from the fact that Google sends visitors to certain pages using custom titles they set.

    When I search through certain data centers I see the pages listed with the same title. Something like "Keywords - Mysite." They show an alternative of "Keywords - Mysite | Mysite Words" which I've never been able to find using proxies of different Google searches.

    One version of the title converts well, the other doesn't. I have no idea what exact test their running but it seems like they'll eventually choose one data set and go from there.

    These are the anecdotal observations of a lone webmaster, so I can't put much faith it what I see.
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  • Profile picture of the author TZ
    Only safe way to run your business is to have different domains in your best niche that are optimized differently - we have 3 squeaky clean sites that make the most money, 3 grey hat sites that make a good chunk, and 10 crap black hat sites.

    Since the fluctuations started in Google all 3 types of sites have swung up and down in traffic and earnings - BUT, once again as of the 19th the squeaky clean sites are recovering and look like they are going to survive the new Penguin.

    Not as high as the pre-4/15 update, but still paying the bills. We were totaling $15,000 a month and now it looks like around $11,000 - lower but still not at the loss of SELL everything start eating dirt.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimerson Farveez
    Is Penguin 2.0 gone live now?? I have noticed changes on Google Australia Ranks..... may be they start from there.. I wonder,,
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Jimerson Farveez View Post

      Is Penguin 2.0 gone live now?? I have noticed changes on Google Australia Ranks..... may be they start from there.. I wonder,,
      Google hasn't announced it yet, but I personally have seen numerous changes to rankings since May.

      They might just start any time
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  • Profile picture of the author Aussie_Al
    I am still seeing a lot of EMD ranking high - yes even ones with crappy content

    My main money site - over the last year I have not focused on link building but only driving traffic to it , that said checking my Webmaster tools last night I noticed over 70,000 forum links (actual posts not spammy profile pages) have now been removed

    I still rank highly for a ton of Long tail keywords but like I said I have been focused on driving traffic only to this site and not the SERPS
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  • Profile picture of the author bioid
    I think these Panda/Penguin updates are mostly google misinformation ploys. They put out some stuff like "We're cracking down on web spam!" then they make a couple algo changes and click the "scramble SERPS" button. Everyone thinks that google busted their method, and abandons it. Google wins.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by bioid View Post

      I think these Panda/Penguin updates are mostly google misinformation ploys. They put out some stuff like "We're cracking down on web spam!" then they make a couple algo changes and click the "scramble SERPS" button. Everyone thinks that google busted their method, and abandons it. Google wins.
      Something is definitely happening. They're removing PR from many websites that 'sell links' and have pushed many penalties across the web.

      I think you'll see a lot more reaction to the Pain starting today. Google is out for blood as usual.
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

        Something is definitely happening. They're removing PR from many websites that 'sell links' and have pushed many penalties across the web.

        I think you'll see a lot more reaction to the Pain starting today. Google is out for blood as usual.
        In the last Google PR update I did notice more sites that lost PR then what is usual in most pagerank updates. I didn't notice any lose in strength of these domains though but obvious it was annoying as I had to buy some new domains for the services where I offer x PR3 posts, x PR4 posts etc. as I would receive complains otherwise.

        To come up with hard numbers, normally I have about 5% of my domains that lose some PR in an update, last time, in February I think it was around 10-12%. Costed me about $5000,- on new high PR domains to pull things straight again. Not a huge disaster but it does increase network maintenance costs. With 4 PR updates a year on average that is about $20,000 which is 10k more then usual.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    It seems like Penguin 2.0 is rolling out right now. Anyone else seeing big changes?
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    • Profile picture of the author pasik
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      It seems like Penguin 2.0 is rolling out right now. Anyone else seeing big changes?
      Everything is still as usual to me...:confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
        Yes, almost for sure the penguin 2 is rolling out.

        I noticed on a lot of search phrases that if you try to go to the last pages, instead of the usual 100 pages you are only seeing like 34 to 48 pages or so.

        It is like they chopped a bunch of the results out of their search results. Or possibly are doing some massive sort to their database.
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        • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
          Originally Posted by Terry Hatfield View Post

          Yes, almost for sure the penguin 2 is rolling out.

          I noticed on a lot of search phrases that if you try to go to the last pages, instead of the usual 100 pages you are only seeing like 34 to 48 pages or so.

          It is like they chopped a bunch of the results out of their search results. Or possibly are doing some massive sort to their database.
          In the last 24 hours I've personally witnessed:
          • Several Text-Link-Ads sites under my control after six years have been reduced by 3 PR points. A PR3 went to 0 and a 5 went to 2.
          • Numerous shifting in rankings on client sites, including some disappearing completely for all rankings.

          To me it's clear that TLA is dead. There's no real surprise there. I assume they also applied this reduction to any 'blogs' that they suspect have been selling links.

          This alone will cause a huge tidal wave in the SERPs. I think this is all at just the beginning.

          If you've been preparing for this, you already have.

          1) Your most spammy over-linked sites
          2) Your middle of the road hand-linked sites
          3) Your unlinked natural sites.

          That means you're covered
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Well if its started I aint got nothing but love for it SO FAR.

            Everything is up across the board and one of my clients sites skyrocketed out of nowhere for every single keyword we were targeting.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Well if its started I aint got nothing but love for it SO FAR.

              Everything is up across the board and one of my clients sites skyrocketed out of nowhere for every single keyword we were targeting.
              Same here. But I'm afraid it's too soon to celebrate :/
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              • Profile picture of the author twistedpixel
                Originally Posted by Tiiberiuss View Post

                Same here. But I'm afraid it's too soon to celebrate :/
                ...that contradicts your sig "pitch" i.e. you shouldn't be worried
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                • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
                  Originally Posted by twistedpixel View Post

                  ...that contradicts your sig "pitch" i.e. you shouldn't be worried
                  Holy mother of Mojo ... you caught me
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          • Profile picture of the author nik0
            Banned
            Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

            In the last 24 hours I've personally witnessed:
            • Several Text-Link-Ads sites under my control after six years have been reduced by 3 PR points. A PR3 went to 0 and a 5 went to 2.
            • Numerous shifting in rankings on client sites, including some disappearing completely for all rankings.

            To me it's clear that TLA is dead. There's no real surprise there. I assume they also applied this reduction to any 'blogs' that they suspect have been selling links.
            I think that's really tailored towards textlinkads sites then as I just checked around 150 PR3+ sites and not a single one lost PR.
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            • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
              Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

              I think that's really tailored towards textlinkads sites then as I just checked around 150 PR3+ sites and not a single one lost PR.
              It could be. They haven't changed their footprint in years. Google at this point can target their whole network of links and then devalue them all at once. Then the link buyers quit paying, the payments stop to the webmasters and the whole problem goes away rapidly.

              There are some long term players who have been propping up this network.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by PerformanceMan View Post

      It seems like Penguin 2.0 is rolling out right now. Anyone else seeing big changes?
      Last week I also saw some huge changes so I have the idea that they are just testing some things and reversing it again.

      Overall green is definitely dominating in SerpFox today.

      Same like Danparks said, most of the movement was in the #100-#250 range, as in page 10 to 25 so the improvements are not that special. I guess it shows that there is a ton of crap ranking in that range that is affected by this probably temporarily update.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mkcoy
    Update shmupdate. There is ALWAYS a way around it.

    Just like car alarms. No sooner do manufactures come up with a new technology to deter thieves and prevent the car starting etc do car thieves come up with a way around it to open the door and drive off.

    Same applies with SEO. Which is not really an abbreviation for "Search Engine Optimisation" as most people think it is. It's actually a synonym for "Gets Round New Google Algos".

    I like the way the updates do root out a lot of thin sites though. But definitely there is more emphasis it seems by Google to push brand awareness rather than giving the honest new webmaster a chance to actually get a slice of the pie too. After all, like 90% of the internet is made up of blogs and what not anyway isn't it?

    Be interesting to see what the new update actually does though. Any details on that?
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  • Profile picture of the author dp40oz
    I agree with Mike. If this is the big bad Penguin 2.0 rolling out then im loving it. All sites are holding strong or moving up so far.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Yeah I wish I could believe this was it though. This is likely just the quiet before the storm - a little reshuffling as they get ready to lower the ax on more link spam. Still concerned for a few clients because a few had a bunch of that before they came to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Yeah I wish I could believe this was it though. This is likely just the quiet before the storm - a little reshuffling as they get ready to lower the ax on more link spam. Still concerned for a few clients because a few had a bunch of that before they came to me.
      I've always hated that swing up in traffic when an update first starts.

      Google loves to:

      Take a crop
      Bring it to the top
      Then give it a chop
      So the rankings drop

      So don't celebrate or get depressed just yet.
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    • Profile picture of the author danparks
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      ... little reshuffling as they get ready to lower the ax on more link spam. Still concerned for a few clients because a few had a bunch of that before they came to me.
      I have a few clients like that too. When I started with them their backlink profiles were definitely less than stellar - a lot of links from some previous so-called SEO that had obviously relied on automated crappy blog comments. Those keywords have remained about the same in ranking. But they were all in the #100 - #250 range so those can jump all around at any time, and it's hard to come to any conclusion about them based on changes over a couple of days.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ethan F.
    Yeah I'm not celebrating either, in fact I'm kind of worried that all my clients are either holding strong or moving up quite a bit....
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    • Profile picture of the author netmatrix
      Just checked our ranking report for today... big jump across the board for almost all of our sites.

      Let's see if this holds.
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      • Profile picture of the author danparks
        Originally Posted by netmatrix View Post

        Just checked our ranking report for today... big jump across the board for almost all of our sites.

        Let's see if this holds.
        Pretty similar results here. Over the last 2 days, very roughly, 40% keywords up fairly nicely, 55% about the same, maybe 5% down. I'm not going to read too much into that, as what happens in the course of 2 days certainly might not stick. But I'll try to be optimistic about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author TZ
    Hilarious - thought one of our main sites got slammed by Penguin, and it turned out to simply be the BlueHost server was crawling like snail - moving like tractor. They fixed the server issue and the traffic pouring in again. What timing ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author TolyZ
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    • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
      So it looks like it's official:

      Penguin 4, With Penguin 2.0 Generation Spam-Fighting, Is Now Live

      How are you doing guys?

      So far my personal sites are good and it looks like my clients's sites too because nobody has been threatening me with murder so far.


      Tibor
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      • Profile picture of the author dreamtoreality
        Originally Posted by Tiiberiuss View Post

        So it looks like it's official:

        Penguin 4, With Penguin 2.0 Generation Spam-Fighting, Is Now Live

        How are you doing guys?

        So far my personal sites are good and it looks like my clients's sites too because nobody has been threatening me with murder so far.


        Tibor
        Everything is looking very good on my end.

        I only build Amazon sites, but that changed a few days ago. I began building an authority site (with the plan not to be dependent on Google traffic) while I was waiting for this update to hit (wanted to see what would happen to my Amazon sites).

        Now that the Amazon sites are holding or actually increased in rankings, it looks as if I can be safe in the knowledge that I can build an authority site and still have a healthy income stream coming in in the process.

        Just hope this sticks, as it's early yet. If it does, I will be very happy.
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      • Profile picture of the author TZ
        Originally Posted by Tiiberiuss View Post

        So it looks like it's official:

        Penguin 4, With Penguin 2.0 Generation Spam-Fighting, Is Now Live

        How are you doing guys?
        Tibor
        20% increase for USA market. Canada about 10%
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  • Profile picture of the author jbearnolimits
    I am not understanding this...what does this new update do? I know it is making a difference in serps but how?

    I was just getting used to the first penguin. It made me rethink how I build links with variation of text and other factors. Is this update targeting something else?
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe118
      If this is it, this reminds me of the following pic:



      I kind of doubt that we've seen the end of this one...

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  • Profile picture of the author Ethan F.
    Just saw some drops now on a clients site, but not huge:



    Just a few days ago, and for many months previously, 5 of these keys were at #1 and 4 were at #2. I'm happy they arent tanking to like 100+ but we'll see what happens...
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    • Profile picture of the author pianopro
      Was seeing all green on Serpfox yesterday and most of today. As of now 11:13pm I am A LOT of red. Not a huge shift but everything is moving that's for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amod Oke
    Was seeing all green on Serpfox yesterday and most of today.
    We are seeing a lot of RED too...

    Keep one thing in mind people:
    DO NOT BECOME GOOGLE SQUEALERS and start giving away your link sources!! That's what they want from this whole mess!

    Let the serps stabilize for about a 4-6 weeks and then we should see the actual results of this "update".
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  • Profile picture of the author nicktyler
    Is there any word on if this is a worldwide update or just in USA maybe. In Europe nothing seems to have changed yet?
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    • Profile picture of the author seamy82
      Originally Posted by nicktyler View Post

      Is there any word on if this is a worldwide update or just in USA maybe. In Europe nothing seems to have changed yet?
      I've noticed changes here. Not huge ones yet but a couple of my sites have dropped in rankings by a few places. Can't figure out why yet.
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      • Profile picture of the author shanekel
        Originally Posted by seamy82 View Post

        I've noticed changes here. Not huge ones yet but a couple of my sites have dropped in rankings by a few places. Can't figure out why yet.
        Iv'e noticed the same on alot of my sites, no need to worry after every update
        there will be some dancing going on just wait for a few days for the dust to settle.
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    • Profile picture of the author crosshairs
      I saw someone post on FB about it hitting some UK domains that are financial based sites like payday loans. I think that was about 12 hours ago.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tiiberiuss
        Originally Posted by crosshairs View Post

        I saw someone post on FB about it hitting some UK domains that are financial based sites like payday loans. I think that was about 12 hours ago.
        Yes, Matt Cutts clearly said they were going to go after certain "spammy" queries.
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        Do you need kick in the SEPRs?
        These *magic* links will do just that for you!
        --> CLICK HERE <-- to find out more!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    From what I see P2 was just an adjustment to the things P1 looked at. The people who it seemed to be affecting the most is people who didn't get the memo and were still pointing junk links straight at their site.

    Theres still another update or two before summer end but I would figure the one Cutts hinted at tiered link building could end up being far more serious, So far this has been FAR less epic than advertised except for those doing link building in a way everyone knew was wrong after P1.
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  • Profile picture of the author Backlinko
    Looks like a link devaluing update...not an outright penalty.

    At least with the sites I've been tracking so far.

    In other words, things look good so far.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Backlinko View Post

      Looks like a link devaluing update...not an outright penalty.

      At least with the sites I've been tracking so far.

      In other words, things look good so far.
      Agreed. Even people who have lost tons of traffic shouldn't panic just yet.

      Link devaluation means your page was pushed down. Others were 'elevated' slightly. Now you have to go further and rebuild.

      I don't think there's any good reason to dump domains hit by Penguin 2.0 just yet. Although it's probably a good idea to start alternative websites that rely more on content than links. I noticed the site in my sig has been getting decent traffic from Google. The domain has only 11 sites linking in, none with anchor text.

      Sites like this can do well targeting 'long tail' and QDF queries. Whether it's enough to earn money as opposed to targeting competitive keyword phrases is anybody's guess. But that type of approach should keep anyone safe from updates and penalties.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    As serpfox updates more sites have been negatively affected and again they all have the same thing in common: 1000's of spammy back links.

    Personally I build about 20-30 links in my monthly service so they definitely do not come from me and the sites that just have a few 100 links are still going strong.

    I think those sites were just lucky to survive penguin 1.0 and now they are hit, while they should be hit before already. Or it kind of shows that penguin 1.0 was much more focused on anchor diversity then on actual spammy back links.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lyanna
    There was an update? Everything seems the same on my niche, no change at all with me or the other sites on page 1. I did go up on some keywords that I was ranking on page 10 which won't really make any difference. That's about it.
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    • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
      Originally Posted by Lyanna View Post

      There was an update? Everything seems the same on my niche, no change at all with me or the other sites on page 1. I did go up on some keywords that I was ranking on page 10 which won't really make any difference. That's about it.
      According to Cutts, only 2.3% of 'queries' were involved. It makes sense that not everyone is seeing big changes.

      Since I focus a lot of effort on rankings for ClickBank products I see immense changes. Google has replaced spammy pages with spammy YouTube videos for the most part.

      Now that's progress!

      I would say if you haven't been pushed down you've got a good foundation for your website.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimmyBlueEyes
    Hey. I'm new to WF, but not so new to IM and SEO. Penguin 2.0 effed my sites up badly guys. I was using "the backlinking strategy that works" but now it doesn't work so well. I'm totally lost now.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    The flushing of turds seems to be accelerating! I told you all to batten down the hatches because SERPS Armageddon was upon us!
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