Top 5 SEO Mistakes

Point #3 is completely, 100% wrong.

While I agree that the traffic is worthless, search engines have no way of knowing anything about your traffic other than visitors that come from their search engine. Even then, they have no way of knowing how long any visitor spends on your site.

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albert12

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

Point #3 is completely, 100% wrong.

While I agree that the traffic is worthless, search engines have no way of knowing anything about your traffic other than visitors that come from their search engine. Even then, they have no way of knowing how long any visitor spends on your site.

Actually they do. They know the duration of every visitor, how many pages they view, and how long they stayed on your site.

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MikeFriedman

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

Actually they do. They know the duration of every visitor, how many pages they view, and how long they stayed on your site.

No they don't. They only know how many people visit your site from the search engine. They cannot tell how long they are there, if visitors come from other sources, what other pages they visit... none of that.

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wpxo

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

No they don't. They only know how many people visit your site from the search engine. They cannot tell how long they are there, if visitors come from other sources, what other pages they visit... none of that.

I always thought that Google uses Google Analytics and the Chrome browser to keep track of bounce rates, time on site, page visits per user, etc.? Many gurus claim that Google looks at all that data and will lower or raise your rankings based on those figures. Who to believe?

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albert12

11 years ago

Of course. I've been doing this for 10 years and can tell you for 100% certainty that Google knows your visitor data.

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MikeFriedman

11 years ago

Originally Posted by wpxo

I always thought that Google uses Google Analytics and the Chrome browser to keep track of bounce rates, time on site, page visits per user, etc.? Many gurus claim that Google looks at all that data and will lower or raise your rankings based on those figures. Who to believe?

Yes, if you use Analytics, Google has access to that data, but only a small percentage of websites use Google Analytics, so it would seem unlikely that even the ones who do are having that data factored into their rankings.

Same goes for Chrome.

Originally Posted by albert12

Of course. I've been doing this for 10 years and can tell you for 100% certainty that Google knows your visitor data.

And I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are completely wrong. If your website is not hosted on a Google property and you are not using AdSense or Google Analytics on your site, they do not have access to any data about your website visitors.

Some people think that Google IS the internet.

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yukon

Banned 11 years ago

I think you guys are talking about two different traffic scenarios. I have no doubts Google can track just about anything traffic does from things like this:

Logged into a Google account.
Chrome browser (probably even Incognito).
Adsense on the page traffic lands on.
Analytics on the page traffic lands on.
A page that traffic lands on that includes an embedded Youtube video.
G+ button on web page that traffic lands on.
Any other embedded Google code/product.

If traffic isn't logged into any Google product & the page traffic lands on has no Google code (ex: Adsense, Analytics, G+ button, Youtube video, etc...), then I don't see how it would be possible to track traffic.

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albert12

11 years ago

Nobody knows anything for certain but with the money, manpower, and sophistication of Google, anything is possible.

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MikeFriedman

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

Nobody knows anything for certain but with the money, manpower, and sophistication of Google, anything is possible.

So in other words, you are just making stuff up.

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albert12

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

So in other words, you are just making stuff up.

Absolutely not. Nobody knows anything about SEO for sure. The only way to find things out is through testing and I know from experience that garbage traffic lowers rankings. There are many ways to find out if visitors are quickly dropping out of sites. Google is a supremely sophisticated system. It's almost a full blown AI (Artificial Intelligence) system and operated by some of the most intelligent people in the industry. They can track stuff like this. I have no doubt in my mind. There is a lot more to Google then we know as they keep most of their technology a secret from the general population and for good reason.

All SEO is speculation and yet some people understand the inner workings. Nothing is made up in the post. Its my own expert opinion after a decade of experience. I started doing sites in 2002. Almost 11 years now.

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MikeFriedman

11 years ago

If Site A does not have Google Analytics running on it and is not hosted by any property belonging to Google (Blogger), nor any YouTube videos or AdSense on the site, and somebody sends 10,000 bot visitors to the site which originate from Site B, also not running Analytics, not hosted on Blogger, and having no YouTube videos or AdSense running off of it, Google HAS NO FREAKING WAY OF KNOWING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC!

None. Zero. Ziltch.

Now if the bot was going into Google's search bar, typing some search query, and then clicking on the site, yes, Google could track something like that and probably recognize the fake traffic, especially if it was done in a very short amount of time.

But just 10,000 fake visitors on some random site coming from some other random site, Google has no clue about. They do not have access to your server logs.

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albert12

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

So in other words, you are just making stuff up.

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

If Site A does not have Google Analytics running on it and is not hosted by any property belonging to Google (Blogger), nor any YouTube videos or AdSense on the site, and somebody sends 10,000 bot visitors to the site which originate from Site B, also not running Analytics, not hosted on Blogger, and having no YouTube videos or AdSense running off of it, Google HAS NO FREAKING WAY OF KNOWING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC!

None. Zero. Ziltch.

Now if the bot was going into Google's search bar, typing some search query, and then clicking on the site, yes, Google could track something like that and probably recognize the fake traffic, especially if it was done in a very short amount of time.

But just 10,000 fake visitors on some random site coming from some other random site, Google has no clue about. They do not have access to your server logs.

If that is the case, how does alexa know how many visitors websites get? You can go on alexa and see how popular your site is. Now go and buy 1 million junk visitors and you will quickly rise in the alexa rankings. How do you explain that?

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MikeFriedman

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

If that is the case, how does alexa know how many visitors websites get? You can go on alexa and see how popular your site is. Now go and buy 1 million junk visitors and you will quickly rise in the alexa rankings. How do you explain that?

That is based off of people who have installed the Alexa toolbar. It is all estimated based on that. It's basically the same way they do Nielsen ratings for television. They poll a small percentage of "random" people and extrapolate the numbers from there.

Straight from Alexa:

Global Traffic Panel

Alexa's traffic estimates are based on data from our global traffic panel, which is a sample of all internet users. The panel consists of millions of internet users using one of over 25,000 different browser extensions.
What is Alexa Traffic Rank?

The global traffic rank is a measure of how a website is doing relative to all other sites on the web over the past 3 months. The rank is calculated using a combination of the estimated average daily unique visitors to the site and the estimated number of pageviews on the site over the past 3 months. The site with the highest combination of unique visitors and pageviews is ranked #1.

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albert12

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

That is based off of people who have installed the Alexa toolbar. It is all estimated based on that. It's basically the same way they do Nielsen ratings for television. They poll a small percentage of "random" people and extrapolate the numbers from there.

First, your speculating like a lot of people about search rankings which is fine because nobody has hard data. Second, if you have 1 billion bots hit your site, your alexa ranking will sky rocket. Those bots don't have an alexa tool bar installed. Their not even real people.

Either way, they found a way to determine how many visitors your site gets on average. Even if they use the method you mention above, that is a valid way of gathering information via statistics. In statistics, you also use a small sample of a population to determine how the entire population is acting.

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MikeFriedman

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

First, your speculating like a lot of people about search rankings which is fine because nobody has hard data. Second, if you have 1 billion bots hit your site, your alexa ranking will sky rocket. Those bots don't have an alexa tool bar installed. Their not even real people.

Either way, they found a way to determine how many visitors your site gets on average. Even if they use the method you mention above, that is a valid way of gathering information via statistics. In statistics, you also use a small sample of a population to determine how the entire population is acting.

I'm tired of arguing with you. You're right. Google knows everything that every single one of us is doing on the internet. They are tracking your every keystroke right now. I should probably stop typing. I could be hurting my rankings.

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albert12

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I'm tired of arguing with you. You're right. Google knows everything that every single one of us is doing on the internet. They are tracking your every keystroke right now. I should probably stop typing. I could be hurting my rankings.

You'd be surprised. Amazon gets even more personal than Google. But anyway, junk traffic is not worth a dime either way.

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yukon

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I'm tired of arguing with you. You're right. Google knows everything that every single one of us is doing on the internet. They are tracking your every keystroke right now. I should probably stop typing. I could be hurting my rankings.

Actually this forum web page is running analytics, lol.

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Tiiberiuss

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I'm tired of arguing with you. You're right. Google knows everything that every single one of us is doing on the internet. They are tracking your every keystroke right now. I should probably stop typing. I could be hurting my rankings.

Hey thanks Mike you just made my day.

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jackwebson

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeFriedman

I'm tired of arguing with you. You're right. Google knows everything that every single one of us is doing on the internet. They are tracking your every keystroke right now. I should probably stop typing. I could be hurting my rankings.

Lol! This made my day..

Anyways, thanks for that info Mike.

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Kevin Maguire

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

Absolutely not. Nobody knows anything about SEO for sure. The only way to find things out is through testing and I know from experience that garbage traffic lowers rankings. There are many ways to find out if visitors are quickly dropping out of sites. Google is a supremely sophisticated system. It's almost a full blown AI (Artificial Intelligence) system and operated by some of the most intelligent people in the industry. They can track stuff like this. I have no doubt in my mind. There is a lot more to Google then we know as they keep most of their technology a secret from the general population and for good reason.

All SEO is speculation and yet some people understand the inner workings. Nothing is made up in the post. Its my own expert opinion after a decade of experience. I started doing sites in 2002. Almost 11 years now.

I've seen him hanging around a Google Cafeteria.

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yukon

Banned 11 years ago

If you think about those G+ buttons, it's the ultimate scheme to let Google track web page activity for pages where the webmaster is paranoid of things like Analytics.

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Ldimilo

11 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

If you think about those G+ buttons, it's the ultimate scheme to let Google track web page activity for pages where the webmaster is paranoid of things like Analytics.

Interesting article here about Google- Google+ isn't a social network; it's The Matrix | Technology | guardian.co.uk

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wpxo

11 years ago

Mike, for sites that do have Google Analytics, you would agree that Google does use the on-site data to adjust the rankings for those sites?

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MikeFriedman 11 years ago

Originally Posted by wpxo

Mike, for sites that do have Google Analytics, you would agree that Google does use the on-site data to adjust the rankings for those sites?

It is really impossible to tell. In order to even test that you would have to use a SERP where you have basically all 10 of the first page listings with 10 different sites that you own so that you can see the data.

On top of that, it's pretty much impossible still to keep everything in enough of a bubble to really test it.

My opinion though, is no, they don't use the data. Probably less than 5% of the webpages out there have Google Analytics on them. It's just not a significant percentage to factor in any of the data.

For example... let's say none of the sites except the site ranking #3 for some search term is running GA and it has a really low time on site metric. People spend less than 30 seconds on the site. Ok. So now what? How does that time on site compare to #4 or #5? It might seem low, but it might actually be better than either of those. So how can Google incorporate that data in a meaningful way?
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Moneymaker2012

11 years ago

I always thought that Google uses Google Analytics and the Chrome browser to keep track of bounce rates, time on site, page visits per user, etc.? Many gurus claim that Google looks at all that data and will lower or raise your rankings based on those figures. Who to believe?

yes you are right I've heard lot of things about this thing and i am myself lil bit confused. but i think it's better that you keep on focusing the things that are already working well in seo.
If you want to try out the other strategies, there is always a risk involved, and it may cost you loosing all your reputation.

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smileverse

11 years ago

Some third party SEO firms are professional, just my opinion.

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Michael Ten

11 years ago

Black hat is definitely a horrible strategy in the long term.

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mrgoe

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

Here is a list of the top 5 mistakes people make when doing SEO. Don't do this or else you will pay for it when you lose all of your rankings.

1. Never ever do black hat SEO. Black hat SEO involves blasting your site to thousands of directories, blogs, forums, ect... This is a sure way of losing your rankings.

Note: Your rank may actually boost for a little while but once Google and other search engines pick up on your tricks, you will lose your rankings altogether.

2. Don't just pay anyone to do your SEO work. Most SEO companies have bad reputations and may use black hat methods to try and rank you highly. Do a lot of research if you plan on hiring a 3rd party company. A lot of people lost their rankings when they hired 3rd party companies. Be careful.

3. Want to buy 10,000 visitors for $10? Don't! That kind of garbage traffic doesn't convert anyway. In fact, this will harm your rankings. Why? Google will see that most people who end up on your site don't stay longer for a few seconds. 99.9% of garbage traffic is just that. The traffic is usually a bot that goes to your site, stays on for a few seconds, and leaves. This harms your site and makes search engines think your site is worthless since nobody stays longer than a few seconds and nobody browses other pages on your site.

4. Do not use link farms. Link farms are one of the worst things you can do to your site. Some companies will offer you easy ways to get back links if you put their code somewhere on your site. What this does is show Google that you are promoting thousands of outbound links that are promoting back to you. Its unnatural and does not work. Google considers this spam and devalues your site real quick.

5. Having broken pages, broken images, and broken links on your site will hurt it. If you don't upkeep your site, Google will notice and devalue it real quick. Google has not patience for webmasters that keep half working sites while the other half is broken. Always check around and make sure that your site is in good working order. If 95% - 99% of the site works well, you will be ok, but anything less than 95% will harm your site.

Nothing really new but something useful really. I've thanked you

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patco

11 years ago

Especially 3 is really important. So many people are using those techniques to improve traffic... But don't expects sales or refs from BOTS!

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jattmarketer

11 years ago

Great Tips !! 2nd and third one happens with many firms.

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Anne0521

11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

Here is a list of the top 5 mistakes people make when doing SEO. Don't do this or else you will pay for it when you lose all of your rankings.

1. Never ever do black hat SEO. Black hat SEO involves blasting your site to thousands of directories, blogs, forums, ect... This is a sure way of losing your rankings.

When I started working online, this was my first mistake. At the end, my site got de-indexed.

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pdrs 11 years ago

Originally Posted by albert12

Of course. I've been doing this for 10 years and can tell you for 100% certainty that Google knows your visitor data.

and a couple of replies later...

Originally Posted by albert12

Nobody knows anything for certain but with the money, manpower, and sophistication of Google, anything is possible.

And there you have it folks, "expert" WarriorForum SEO advice in all it's glory!
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Smith18

11 years ago

Have to agree with it all, great post. 1 + 3 are mistakes I've made along with some others. Submission to thousands of search engines/directories at the click of a button can actually have a negative affect on your sites ranking, and cheap untargeted traffic is a complete waste of time.

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