Are You White hat, Gray Hat or Black Hat and why?

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Good morning warriors,

So we have an interesting mix of opinions on the forum. There seem to be three major groups of people:
  1. Members that don't employ 'typical' link building or rely on relationship building and social presence to get honest, even organic links.
  2. Members that link to use things like blog networks and guest posts to build links.
  3. Members that like to use Xrumer, GSA, and typically take part in larger scale link spam.

My question is why you decided to choose the path you have.
  • How has it worked out for you?
  • Why do you do it that way?
  • Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?'

Let's have a good conversation - all opinions are welcome!

GOY
#black #gray #hat #white
  • Profile picture of the author GodMode52
    In no particular order







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  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
    The colors are so pretty
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    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Robin Hood = White Hat

      Justifies his thievery behind the fact that what he does is good in comparison to what others do. (I steal from the rich, but since I give to the poor, what I do is okay)



      Blackbeard = Black Hat

      Knows that his thievery is equally just as wrong as any other form of thievery, no matter what the circumstances, thus doesn't give a damn either way. (Theft is theft no matter how you explain it away)

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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

    Good morning warriors,

    So we have an interesting mix of opinions on the forum. There seem to be three major groups of people:
    1. Members that don't employ 'typical' link building or rely on relationship building and social presence to get honest, even organic links.
    2. Members that link to use things like blog networks and guest posts to build links.
    3. Members that like to use Xrumer, GSA, and typically take part in larger scale link spam.

    My question is why you decided to choose the path you have.
    • How has it worked out for you?
    • Why do you do it that way?
    • Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?'

    Let's have a good conversation - all opinions are welcome!

    GOY
    I'd have to say I'm a make monies Hat.





    How has it worked out for you?

    Yes, I make lots of Monies.

    Why do you do it that way?

    Well if I did it the other way. I'd make no Monies.

    Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?

    No. But my Wife was complaining that she had to stitch and extra pocket in my Jeans to carry all the extra Monies.

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    • Profile picture of the author GodMode52
      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      I'd have to say I'm a make monies Hat.





      How has it worked out for you?

      Yes, I make lots of Monies.

      Why do you do it that way?

      Well if I did it the other way. I'd make no Monies.

      Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?

      No. But my Wife was complaining that she had to stitch and extra pocket in my Jeans to carry all the extra Monies.

      Augustus Kwembe - I love the Monies - YouTube
      Not bad son, not bad at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
    Gray hat.

    White Hat takes too long, Black Hat profits are too short term.

    Survived Penguin 2.0 for most sites (I have several hundred), those that dropped seem to easily come back with a little additional work.

    Best of both worlds really, but I do recommend everyone learn white, gray, and black and then decide which one is best for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      We are missing a middle class in the gray section.


      Light grey:

      A well build private blog network and tiered link building done in such way that the properties or feeder domains rank for closely related keywords, using a dark grey method to rank those feeder sites. Using only unique written content for the tier 1 links.

      Extremely suitable for wannabee authority sites I would say.


      Dark grey:

      A private blog network where we use spun content and build 100's of links within minutes. Very cheap but at the same time still very effective. Under dark grey I would also place networks like SAPE / Link Authority / and some others that passed the test of time.

      Perfect to rank feeder sites, web2.0's, churn & burn money type of sites.


      At least that's the way I am heading now and to me that seems the most efficient way to scale up whenever you want without being dependent on content that go's viral, extremely expensive pieces of content like Neil Patel does where they said they often spend $50,000 to design a page (whitehat) or blackhat where the timeline of the rankings is too short for me to build a website for and which has a huge learning curve to get successful with it while a blog network is pretty easy to setup for everyone when you do a little research and when you have some money to invest.

      However the money aspect applies to all methods, can't make money without investing:

      - whitehat: large investments in time and content
      - grey hat: large investments in domain purchases
      - black hat: large investments in time, captcha's and servers
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  • Profile picture of the author zubizubi
    WHITE HAT of course

    reason simple : we have our ethics and strategies.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicktyler
    These are my 2 hats being modelled by my girlfriend:


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  • Profile picture of the author smileverse
    White Hat.
    Reason: it's effective in point of long term.
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  • Profile picture of the author MatthewWoodward
    In my opinion there is no such thing as white or black hat.

    The second you build a link, you violate webmaster guidelines. I don't care what 'type' of link that is or what the source of it is, if you had anything to do with the creation of it you be breaking the rules.

    So if your going to break the rules break them properly huh
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    • Profile picture of the author smodha
      Originally Posted by MatthewWoodward View Post

      In my opinion there is no such thing as white or black hat.

      The second you build a link, you violate webmaster guidelines. I don't care what 'type' of link that is or what the source of it is, if you had anything to do with the creation of it you be breaking the rules.

      So if your going to break the rules break them properly huh
      Exactly this.

      Manually building your own backlinks is a violation of Google Webmaster guidelines. Unless you write great content and let people link to you naturally (good luck with that) you're straying to the Dark Side.

      "White Hat" is a term made up by folk so they can feel better about themselves when link building.
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      • Profile picture of the author options
        Originally Posted by smodha View Post

        Exactly this.

        Manually building your own backlinks is a violation of Google Webmaster guidelines. Unless you write great content and let people link to you naturally (good luck with that) you're straying to the Dark Side.

        "White Hat" is a term made up by folk so they can feel better about themselves when link building.
        Not sure i agree with that. What about press releases and guest blogging. Submitting a link in dmoz
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        • Profile picture of the author smodha
          Originally Posted by options View Post

          Not sure i agree with that. What about press releases and guest blogging. Submitting a link in dmoz
          Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just quoting Google's guidelines. Like with most things in life, these guidelines are open to interpretation.

          If your business doesn't depend on Google rankings then you have nothing to worry about.
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    • Profile picture of the author dburk
      Originally Posted by MatthewWoodward View Post

      In my opinion there is no such thing as white or black hat.

      The second you build a link, you violate webmaster guidelines. I don't care what 'type' of link that is or what the source of it is, if you had anything to do with the creation of it you be breaking the rules.

      So if your going to break the rules break them properly huh
      Hi Matthew,

      How did you get such a jaded opinion?

      I have to wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion.

      Search engines have always advocated meritorious link building. Without links the World Wide Web would not exist and neither would search engines. There is nothing wrong with building links on your content as long as it is done in a way that is relevant, useful and adds value for users.
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      • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
        Originally Posted by dburk View Post

        Hi Matthew,

        How did you get such a jaded opinion?

        I have to wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion.

        Search engines have always advocated meritorious link building. Without links the World Wide Web would not exist and neither would search engines. There is nothing wrong with building links on your content as long as it is done in a way that is relevant, useful and adds value for users.
        If you subscribed to Matt Cutt's propaganda channel you would know that Google does not want you to create links.

        In fact they say you should forget about building links altogether and only focus on creating great content and then millions of people will share it with their friends and link to it from their authority sites and post it on their Facebook/Twitter accounts where your stuff will go viral and your site will be flooded with so much traffic that it will crash your server!

        EZ Peezy Dawg.
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        • Profile picture of the author smodha
          Originally Posted by GyuMan82 View Post

          If you subscribed to Matt Cutt's propaganda channel you would know that Google does not want you to create links.

          In fact they say you should forget about building links altogether and only focus on creating great content and then millions of people will share it with their friends and link to it from their authority sites and post it on their Facebook/Twitter accounts where your stuff will go viral and your site will be flooded with so much traffic that it will crash your server!

          EZ Peezy Dawg.
          It's not Captain Cutts' "propaganda". It's clearly stated in Google's guidelines. In Google's world, great content should be linked to naturally. In the real world, it's not quite that easy.

          I don't dispute the fact that good content will rank/get linked to but it's not quite so easy when you have competition. And, if you think that unique content with zero manual backlinking is immune to Google penalties then think again.

          I was reading a blog recently (can't remember who it was. Might have been a guest post on Traffic Generation Cafe) where a decent PR blog was sent the anchor text penalty through no fault of the blogger. On closer inspection she found that her readers were linking back to her content using a high proportion of over optimized anchor text. In a real world, how do you control that?

          So back to the original question, if you build your own links - it is considered "blackhat".
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          • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
            Originally Posted by smodha View Post

            On closer inspection she found that her readers were linking back to her content using a high proportion of over optimized anchor text. In a real world, how do you control that?
            Interesting.. so in this scenario, it is necessary to build your own links with varied anchor text just to counteract the negative consequences of the natural links! Blackhat tactics to keep your site whitehat!! :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author MatthewWoodward
        Originally Posted by dburk View Post

        Hi Matthew,

        How did you get such a jaded opinion?

        I have to wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion.

        Search engines have always advocated meritorious link building. Without links the World Wide Web would not exist and neither would search engines. There is nothing wrong with building links on your content as long as it is done in a way that is relevant, useful and adds value for users.
        I think you need a recap of https://support.google.com/webmasters/?hl=en
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
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  • Profile picture of the author Voasi
    By definition, if you do any type of link building to ultimately gain higher rankings, regardless of type, you're spamming Google.

    I wear the hat that gets my client's results.

    Having said that, I always let them know risks associated with any type of "black" hat link building.
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  • Profile picture of the author PROmotions LLC
    As long as your link building is "natural"

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  • Profile picture of the author PaidAllDay
    I don't know that there is much that really differentiates the two anymore. Building massive amounts of backlinks, fake social profiles, and link wheels of accounts made strictly for authority links is generally accepted by both white and blackhat marketers.

    Most high level marketers use blackhat tactics, they probably just don't talk about it as much. It's pretty difficult to perform at a higher level without some type of trick or exploit. If you aren't cheating in some way you probably aren't winning. When it comes to money, there isn't a whole lot of ethics involved.
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    • Profile picture of the author daniel45
      Banned
      black hat for quick money, and consistently grey or "light grey" as another poster pointed out for more long term ventures.

      I would also point out that there really is no such thing as white hat, most any type of self promotion is generally frowned upon by Google I believe.
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  • Profile picture of the author godoveryou
    I would also point out that there really is no such thing as white hat, most any type of self promotion is generally frowned upon by Google I believe.
    Would you consider improving site speed and crawlability self promotion?
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
    I wear the money hat.
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  • Profile picture of the author patco
    I prefer white hat only... I like working and do NOT break any rules! It's much better to have your website there (in Search Engines) and get the ranking slowly than have your website OUT of Search Engines!
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Carlin
      Originally Posted by patco View Post

      I prefer white hat only... I like working and do NOT break any rules! It's much better to have your website there (in Search Engines) and get the ranking slowly than have your website OUT of Search Engines!
      Are you joking? It's hard to tell if that's sarcasm. I hope so because you have sig links for SEO purposes.

      Plus, what good is a white hat site if your competitors know how to spam it to death for you?
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  • Profile picture of the author guillaumejd
    lmao I like the hats... Personally I think that the grey zone works best. Ideally you would build a website so good that people would link to it because its just so awesome. But in reality most websites need a small push for them to rank at the top of search engines. So blogging, directories and articles can help because they provide good backlinks. But the most important is on page SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
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  • Profile picture of the author webrankingservices
    Banned
    It is always good to work with professionals. If you are trying to do trial and error, you can spoil your own business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by webrankingservices View Post

      It is always good to work with professionals. If you are trying to do trial and error, you can spoil your own business.
      I guess that means your screwed then.
      Spun/Tiered/Web2.0 anyone?
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  • Profile picture of the author Clint Faber
    I do not much like hates.

    I do what I feel is right for the hole if all that I strive for.

    Interesting topic
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  • Profile picture of the author Dentist
    I think straight black hat doesn't work anymore, because Google has actually become better in detecting spam and automation which black hat is mostly based on...
    Straight white hat (How Google defines SEO) doesn't work and it has not been working for the past 10 years or so, UNLESS if you have millions of dollars in budget or you can live longer than Noah.
    So, the answer is grey hat, for example obtaining quality backlinks manually when and where you can. Google doesn't approve it per say but you barely hear them disapprove it either. That's why it is grey hat.
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    • Profile picture of the author AugustineZ
      Originally Posted by Dentist View Post

      ... or you can live longer than Noah.
      ...
      Or Methuselah
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  • Profile picture of the author kamalifestyle
    Hello All,
    I use white hat SEO technique because some time Google has banned black hat SEO technique.
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by kamalifestyle View Post

      Hello All,
      I use white hat SEO technique because some time Google has banned black hat SEO technique.
      Indeed, because it doesn't get any whiter than dropping keyword targeted backlinks in unrelated forum signatures :p

      Originally Posted by erica6 View Post

      its so interesting I liked it.
      repeat
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      • Profile picture of the author DanielPedersen
        Would like to say that i am Whitehat, but i do buy twitter follower and facebook fans when i start up a new site. Also sometimes i will buy a fiverr gig to get some comments.

        But I do no backlinking at all except from using social media. What people dont realise is that you often spend to much time trying to get the good backlinks to rank a site, where you could just use the time and create 100 more articles on your website and rank for more long tail keywords.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLondon
          Originally Posted by DanielPedersen View Post

          Would like to say that i am Whitehat, but i do buy twitter follower and facebook fans when i start up a new site. Also sometimes i will buy a fiverr gig to get some comments.

          But I do no backlinking at all except from using social media. What people dont realise is that you often spend to much time trying to get the good backlinks to rank a site, where you could just use the time and create 100 more articles on your website and rank for more long tail keywords.
          Hey,

          Any leads you want to share on where do you get those?

          For my old projects, I used to do that too, however, most of those users are passive, without any pictures, and just don't look genuine.

          The fans/followers that you buy -- are they real people, with active accounts, etc.?
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      • Profile picture of the author PandoraH
        This thread is a scream. But some of the hats pictured scared me.

        Personally, when I finally get into IM, I'll be medium-gray because I believe in high quality backlinks, and other forms of SEO not endorsed by Google. Having said this, quality content is not only something I enjoy creating, I like sharing it for the good of clients and the internet consumer base in general. On the other hand, I know I will occasionally succumb to the evils of paid Youtube views and the like.

        On the flip side, my clients sometimes argue with me about the quality of the articles I create and spin for Tier 3 backlinks. I'm all for good quality content, and they say "why, it's for Tier 3 backlinks". Sigh.
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  • Profile picture of the author zeroaffiliate
    How has it worked out for you?
    I earning big money from it.

    Why do you do it that way?
    White Hat. I looking at long term money cashflow.

    Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?'
    Nope.
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  • Profile picture of the author Susan Richards
    Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

    Good morning warriors,

    So we have an interesting mix of opinions on the forum. There seem to be three major groups of people:
    1. Members that don't employ 'typical' link building or rely on relationship building and social presence to get honest, even organic links.
    2. Members that link to use things like blog networks and guest posts to build links.
    3. Members that like to use Xrumer, GSA, and typically take part in larger scale link spam.

    My question is why you decided to choose the path you have.
    • How has it worked out for you?
    • Why do you do it that way?
    • Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?'

    Let's have a good conversation - all opinions are welcome!

    GOY
    I have experienced using White Hat and Gray Hat but would never dream of using Black Hat because of the high risk that comes along with it. I prefer using Grey Hat because I have had many success in using it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Hansons
    Same with me, I completely recognize black hat but gray hat a little confusing to me, so I might be using some gray hat techniques too, but I try to use only white hat.
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  • Profile picture of the author electronik69
    Anyone building links to "strengthen" their site is doing Grey Hat so STFU all you goody goodies who say all their methods are White Hat. Plus I love all the people who have say they use "white hat" techniques all have links in their signatures ... good work you hypocrites!
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by electronik69 View Post

      Anyone building links to "strengthen" their site is doing Grey Hat so STFU all you goody goodies who say all their methods are White Hat. Plus I love all the people who have say they use "white hat" techniques all have links in their signatures ... good work you hypocrites!
      Hate the game, not the player.
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      • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Hate the game, not the player.
        I see what u did there :p
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    • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
      Originally Posted by electronik69 View Post

      Anyone building links to "strengthen" their site is doing Grey Hat so STFU all you goody goodies who say all their methods are White Hat. Plus I love all the people who have say they use "white hat" techniques all have links in their signatures ... good work you hypocrites!
      This post made me laugh. And for that, you get a thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author TLondon
      Originally Posted by electronik69 View Post

      Anyone building links to "strengthen" their site is doing Grey Hat so STFU all you goody goodies who say all their methods are White Hat. Plus I love all the people who have say they use "white hat" techniques all have links in their signatures ... good work you hypocrites!
      Exactly what I was thinking reading this thread.

      Not everybody grasps the idea of what white hat actually suppose to refer to.
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  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
    You guys that keep telling yourselves that Google is "OK" with linkbuilding are simply sticking your head in the sand. Regardless of what Google's guidelines say, you only need to look at things from the perspective YOU would have if YOU owned Google.

    If you were Google and used backlinks as a ranking metric, would you appreciate people building their own links to "upvote" their own sites? Come on now, it's fairly obvious what you would think of the practice.

    However, I'm also not naive enough to think that building a site around more competitive terms won't benefit from link-building. That said, I'm also intelligent enough to understand that Google frowns upon it, despite what some link-builders will tell you.
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  • Profile picture of the author GyuMan82
    The only question that matters is "Are you making money?"

    If the answer is yes, you should not care what color hat you are wearing.

    The only color that matters is green.
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  • Profile picture of the author zlee
    For me:

    Blackhat (to get it going) -> Grey Hat (to add some substance) -> White Hat (to milk the benefits) :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author ejpayne
    I think the only type of link building which is truly whitehat is linking from social bookmarking sites such as reddit and digg. These sites were built around sharing content and for me are the only sites which I consider "white hat".
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  • Profile picture of the author mycarzs
    I am using white hat.Because white hat Links are Permanent links.Those are useful to improve the page rank.

    Thank You
    mycarzs.com
    buswale.com
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    • Profile picture of the author GodMode52
      Originally Posted by mycarzs View Post

      I am using white hat.Because white hat Links are Permanent links.Those are useful to improve the page rank.

      Thank You
      mycarzs.com
      buswale.com
      Man are you that stupid that you can't even drop a spam link on your spam post? Seriously?
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  • Profile picture of the author smodha
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    I Sell What People Want. The Money Is A Bonus..
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  • Profile picture of the author neralu
    I always prefer the white hat method. Rather than spamming hundreds of links, it is always better to create links which looks natural in the eyes of google.
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    • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
      Originally Posted by neralu View Post

      I always prefer the white hat method. Rather than spamming hundreds of links, it is always better to create links which looks natural in the eyes of google.
      That's a pretty hard game to play.
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  • Profile picture of the author magnusmora
    I used to use the old techniques, very blackhat, was doing really well until google kicked my ass. Learn my lesson. I now use very different techniques and DO NOT Just rely on google for traffic. For seo, I try and keep it as white hat as I can...if there is such a thing!! My main focus now is user experience!
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  • Profile picture of the author amcg
    How has it worked out for you?
    Why do you do it that way?
    Were you punished by Penguin 2 or the 'Payday Update?'
    I do classic online marketing e.g paid search, social media, blogging etc in a way that I think is ethical. I enjoy this and don't enjoy some of the other methods of buying traffic but I wouldn't castigate someone for doing it their way.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisv24
    I used to be grey hat but now I just go completely white hat and think more about marketing than link building. With all these updates and algorithm changes I just want to be as white hat as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeatMap
    White Hat.
    Giving people stuff they really want and need naturally attracts real organic links. That's always been the best SEO strategy for me, and even though Google changes their algorithms often what they are trying to do (of course) is automate sorting out what the real good stuff is. They have an almost infinite amount of resources to throw at this problem. At some stage (probably not too far away) they will get really good at it as opposed to reasonably good at it (which is where we are at right now). We should be prepared for that
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  • Profile picture of the author Lokahi
    There is no such thing as Gray hat. It's either blackhat (forbidden by Google TOS) or whitehat (acceptable according to Google). Google won't recognize your shades of gray in any way. They won't let you toe the line. Stay well within the guidelines or risk ban.
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    • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
      Originally Posted by Lokahi View Post

      There is no such thing as Gray hat. It's either blackhat (forbidden by Google TOS) or whitehat (acceptable according to Google). Google won't recognize your shades of gray in any way. They won't let you toe the line. Stay well within the guidelines or risk ban.
      So, if you want to get super-technical, most of the people on here are blackhatters. Just varying extremes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
    I'm green hat.

    Just work hard and play later.
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  • Profile picture of the author blackli0n
    WHITE HAT all the way!

    I do it right. The rankings come fast (3-6 months). The results are permanent and I make a ton of money. There are plenty of people who just outsource everything and don't care as long as their gains are more than the costs. But for myself personally...if I'm going to optimize a site, doing it the white hat way is totally worth my time and makes the most gains in the short run AND the long run.

    There are also many other people who do it the grey hat, black hat way because they don't know how to do SEO correctly. They spend hours and can't figure it out and so they give up and resort to black hat methods thinking it's better. There's a reason why real SEO is so expensive and black hat methods are so cheap. When done right, the costs are justified.
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  • Profile picture of the author Make Money Ninja
    Answer: It doesn't matter, anything can get ****ed by Google in 2013. So its all about aggression and risk tolerance. (Hypothetical) Longterm vs short term.

    Also anyone who builds links is "black hat", guest posting is black hat, but most people dont realise that.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Some of these pictures are not only annoying but irritating sight.

    I have threw up 3 times today.

    White hat, black hat or grey hat are all against Google TOS.

    If you are to live by what Google says, you won't have to touch your
    site with a backlink, i guess that's what the new update is basically all about.

    It's been built to naturally rank sites that people love in their relevant fiends too.
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