So whats stopping one of your competitors firing a load of spam links to your site & penalizing it?

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Hi,

So in light of this latest algo update,

Id like to ask a simple question that occurred to me earlier...

As these latest Google algorithm updates target spam links / poor quality links / overuse of anchor text..and Google are de-ranking/penalizing sites using such tactics..

What is stopping one of your competitors firing thousands of spam links at your site with the same anchor text..and then just waiting for you to get demoted/penalized?

And how on earth could you even protect yourself against that?


Look forward to your replies on this..
#competitors #firing #links #load #penalizing #site #spam #stopping
  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Good question!

    The corollary is what are you doing to counteract said actions?

    The answers lie somewhere in the middle and somewhere out beyond yonder... In the Twilight Zone

    First of all, show a site that has suffered these actions and the outcomes, fully documented. Then show those docs to Google. And then show them here.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMI
    I can totally see such a sick campaign as working against the antagonist at some point of time in the future. That's how stuff like that tends to turn out.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    It's much the same mindset as MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction as practised in the 50's to 80's between communist USSR and USA. In any niche worth its sort, there are the top players. They know the status quo and are usually happy to play it out.

    Google also knows the status quo at any given time (determined over years) so I think, is apt to play along. It's much more about maintaining the quo at the top of the camp than crucifying any particular entity at whim. There is collateral damage, of course. There are take-overs and reprisals, of course. There are pretenders to the throne, always. When you think about it - none of the off-site "amendments" that *could* be made, matter that much if certain over-riding signals that determine the search top spots are not affected. Let's just say if you maintain a presence, you'll receive the benefits of that presence even when under attack.

    Simplified, but I think that's generally what happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    Hi,

    So in light of this latest algo update,

    Id like to ask a simple question that occurred to me earlier...

    As these latest Google algorithm updates target spam links / poor quality links / overuse of anchor text..and Google are de-ranking/penalizing sites using such tactics..

    What is stopping one of your competitors firing thousands of spam links at your site with the same anchor text..and then just waiting for you to get demoted/penalized?

    And how on earth could you even protect yourself against that?


    Look forward to your replies on this..
    Nothing is protecting you. The only protection you have is your brain, your thirst for competition, buffer sites, and good old blackhat SEO.

    If someone neg SEO's my site, I'll neg SEO every site on page 1 of Google.

    And since I keep duplicates of all my money sites (not duplicate content just back up sites ready for launch) I will rerank a new site right back to #1, and I'll continue to neg SEO every mfkr on page 1 of Google. I will repeat this process for a year straight, until all my competitors tire out, have nervous break downs, go bankrupt, and start living on the streets.

    The short answer again: You can't stop it.
    The solution: Always be prepared for a war before a war starts.
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  • Profile picture of the author ViralMediaBoost
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    • Profile picture of the author pvijeh
      Originally Posted by ViralMediaBoost View Post

      They could do that at any time but if you know its them and have proof you could always knock his site off Google by telling Google themselves.
      this is ridiculous, how you you ever get "proof" of this?
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  • Profile picture of the author nicktyler
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    What is stopping one of your competitors firing thousands of spam links at your site with the same anchor text..and then just waiting for you to get demoted/penalized?

    And how on earth could you even protect yourself against that?
    Nothing. Absolutly nothing and you can't 'protect yourself' you have to just deal with it when it happens or hope your site is strong enough and your attacker has ADHD.
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  • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
    Not relying on Google is the greatest protection of all from 'Neg SEO.'
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    What is stopping one of your competitors firing thousands of spam links at your site with the same anchor text..and then just waiting for you to get demoted/penalized?.

    Despite what you read on Marketing forums - Something IS in some cases stopping it and its pretty obvious. Negative SEO has been possible for at least a year and a half but people are acting like its just come and it means the world is going to end. If it was then the world should have ended a yea ago.

    There was a long old cases study last year at TP with Thies (as the site owner), a user named Negative SEO and Fishkin of Moz. If you ask marketers they found the case study convincing but the owner wasn't anywhere near as impressed. Frankly in the end Thies probably came out ahead.

    Regardless of what you think of the study ( It did have some very major flaws). it was done a year and a half ago. Theres no doubt tht it works on some sites but theres really no doubt either that it doesn't work on all sites. Why? Other studies have shown no results

    Negative SEO Reality Check - True Story & Case Study

    Even more telling than the studies is the reality of the search results. If all the hype you hear about negative SEO were true and you could take down any site ahead of you and rule Google then why in over a year and half has that not happened? Google's results should be a mess - so big even in high traffic sarches that people should be screaming at Google and running to Bing.

    No one can answer this.

    It just aint happening

    Not enough people have the idea? Bzz false. The idea has been around to rank that way for well over a year.

    Marketers are to moral and ethical to rank that way7? LOL

    Not enough tools and VPS resources? Marketers? :p

    Its pretty obvious really. Although negative SEO is possible under a great many circumstances, the idea that you can just look at any serp and target any sites in front of you in order to rule is mostly -

    a myth..
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    • Profile picture of the author KStone
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      ...Other studies have shown no results

      Negative SEO Reality Check - True Story & Case Study ...
      Did you see the comments on that article? Some guy commented and was blaming negative SEO for his site tanking. When it was shown that he had a lot of spam links before the negative SEO and that he had copied stuff from other sites, he went apesh*t. Then he got busted for trying to do negative SEO. I guess he was trying to prove a point.

      The site that was attacked in the Reality Check story is not what I would call a super strong authority site, and it looks as if the spam links continue to pile up against it. But as far as I can tell it doesn't seem to have been slapped at all by Google.

      I don't think negative SEO is anywhere near as big of a problem as people think or we'd be hearing a lot more about it by now.
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  • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    Hi,

    So in light of this latest algo update,

    Id like to ask a simple question that occurred to me earlier...

    As these latest Google algorithm updates target spam links / poor quality links / overuse of anchor text..and Google are de-ranking/penalizing sites using such tactics..
    Point of correction, this is no longer news. The first panda update took place on Feb 17th 2011.

    What is stopping one of your competitors firing thousands of spam links at your site with the same anchor text..and then just waiting for you to get demoted/penalized?
    Some idiots think negative SEO will help them stay afloat.

    I still wonder how people think they can live comfortably under a burning roof both parties help destroyed.

    Believe me, most people who neg SEO competitors site never get the chance to rank for their keywords again.
    It's a poor and naive marketing strategy and such people have no damn clue about what SEO is.

    And how on earth could you even protect yourself against that?
    First of all, Google knows about this and is no fool.

    Google disavow helps you disregards and clean up your profile.

    I have also seen cases where only a bunch of high quality, relevant network links got a site back after neg rep.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    A site with a ton of legit links, like some "authority" type of site can handle a lot of spam without being negatively affected.

    Most sites, especially the ones from local businesses or small webshops can be taken down very easily.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Nothing is protecting you. The only protection you have is your brain, your thirst for competition, buffer sites, and good old blackhat SEO.
      Sites that are already involved in spammy link building are the most likey to go down. Blackhat SEo to your site just makes it easier for your competition. Solid links are what will protect sagainst Neg SEO.

      I will repeat this process for a year straight, until all my competitors tire out, have nervous break downs, go bankrupt, and start living on the streets
      :rolleyes: Yeah uh hum.


      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      A site with a ton of legit links, like some "authority" type of site can handle a lot of spam without being negatively affected.

      Most sites, especially the ones from local businesses or small webshops can be taken down very easily.
      This....... but I suspect theres a threshold that can work for small businesses as well. In my own area I have not seen the volatility that this thread would suggest and again negative SEO has been around for a year and a half at least. We hear anecdotal evidence that marketers like to tout as some massive problem that will force Google to roll back but thats just wishful thinking and the reason why this becomes the hot topic after an algo update

      eases the pain that you did your own site in
      and gives you (false) hope things will go back to the spam em to rank days
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        This....... but I suspect theres a threshold that can work for small businesses as well. In my own area I have not seen the volatility that this thread would suggest and again negative SEO has been around for a year and a half at least. We hear anecdotal evidence that marketers like to tout as some massive problem that will force Google to roll back but thats just wishful thinking and the reason why this becomes the hot topic after an algo update
        1.5 year at least yeah, I managed to neg SEO my web shop 8 years ago already by buying 10k web directory links. The specific keyword went from mid page two straight back to page 10.

        There are not many people involved in neg SEO at local business levels.

        When you talk about IM type of niches, I'm pretty damn sure that there's a lot of neg SEO going on.

        I got attacked about 2 years ago with a Dutch Adsense site, exactly at the same time as Penguin 1.0 launched. The site had plenty of spammy back links already though so I expect Penguin 1.0 would've dropped it anyway.

        The guy spammed everyone at page one btw and the only one who survived were some large authority sites AND 1 site that was like 12 yrs old, who only had a few dozen legit back links (prior to the attack), but those links were as old as the site. So age plays a huge role here, which is unfair for new comers of course.

        Still waiting for a few good lawsuits happening that punish those attackers as after all it can destroy someone's business and it can't be that hard to track them down as most buy private proxies, which are easy to trace down when justice gets involved. Even if they outsource it to Fiverr it's not so hard track them down, once they trace down the seller I'm sure Fiverr will cooperate to supply the buyer details.

        Selling SEO would get a new dimension, when it doesn't work out as the client expects they might sue you for neg SEO'ing lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    Batten down the hatches. Prepare for negative SEO before it happens to you. That means building other traffic sources and building out the trust & brand signals that make authority sites more bullet proof. Get your social on, if your business is one that can be reviewed get lots of good (legitimate) reviews, get listed in reputable directories relevant to your niche. Think : Better Business Bureau, Chamber of Commerce and local press for Local sites. For online only get links from authority sites in your niche, go big on social signals and have great user experience.

    If you prepare for the worst you might weather the storm and if you lose Google traffic you will at least have your other traffic to stay afloat.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      Batten down the hatches. Prepare for negative SEO before it happens to you................If you prepare for the worst you might weather the storm and if you lose Google traffic you will at least have your other traffic to stay afloat.

      awww comeon Dollz... there is no storm. A few reports here and there... anecdotal stuff. The serps are not fluctuating like crazy - neither local or otherwise - as marketers with their xrumer, scrapebox and Senuke hummingly tear up the web with negative SEO.

      Where they be missy?

      Again. Neg SEO has been a round for over a year and a half. I have been reading about mayhem and Tsunamis and none aint come. Let me put the question to you old school



      I swear even if you do another video for me....I'm going to send you a chicken little t-shirt
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      • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        awww comeon Dollz... there is no storm. A few reports here and there... anecdotal stuff. The serps are not fluctuating like crazy - neither local or otherwise - as marketers with their xrumer, scrapebox and Senuke hummingly tear up the web with negative SEO.

        Where they be missy?

        Again. SEO has been a round for over a year and a half. I have been reading about mayhem and Tsunamis and none aint come. Let me put the question to you old school


        I swear even if you do another video for me....I'm going to send you a chicken little t-shirt
        There she blows cap'n it's on the horizon, it's coming. I've heard more reported cases of negative SEO across the different forums in the last week than I've heard all year. Something is fishy with Penguin 2.0

        I would rock that shirt but only if you sign it and date it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

          There she blows cap'n it's on the horizon, it's coming. I've heard more reported cases of negative SEO across the different forums in the last week than I've heard all year. Something is fishy with Penguin 2.0

          I would rock that shirt but only if you sign it and date it.
          Bunch of people got hit by the algo there Dollz, It always causes people talking about negative SEO more. Frankly some people were not even negatively SEOed. You know this industry - think a cracker jack SEO that tanked his customer's site says - "I tanked your site"

          Negative SEO is going to become the number one thing for a SEO to claim in order cover his/her own rear end. Not that it won't be real sometimes.
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          • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Bunch of people got hit by the algo there Dollz, It always causes people talking about negative SEO more. Frankly some people were not even negatively SEOed. You know this industry - think a cracker jack SEO that tanked his customer's site says - "I tanked your site"

            Negative SEO is going to become the number one thing for a SEO to claim in order cover his/her own rear end. Not that it won't be real sometimes.
            Sure I can see where they might lie to their clients but on a forum where they come looking for help you would think that they would tell the truth to get the best solution possible. I think they would be more likely to say:

            I did A,B,C to this site and now it's tanked so how can I fix it?
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  • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
    With a new site tho you Disavow, nothing to lose. Well the time and effort you've put in so far but it's not like a site that you've built over years. For a new site I'd wait til I got an unnatural links warning in WMT then Disavow all that garbage. If you have set the site up right, haven't done anything spammy to date and have earned at least a little credit with Google then maybe you survive it.

    The problem with negative SEO as I see it is that it is most dangerous to new sites and sites where no SEO work has been done at all. Neither has actually done anything wrong (yet.) Both are already vulnerable and fairly easy to outrank so why pile this on them too?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by SEODollz View Post

      The problem with negative SEO as I see it is that it is most dangerous to new sites and sites where no SEO work has been done at all. Neither has actually done anything wrong (yet.) Both are already vulnerable and fairly easy to outrank so why pile this on them too?
      No doubt but the rub of reality is google does not care a flying fig newton about new sites. I'm no Google defender. Its simply ALLLL about their bottom line, and if the front page of most serps has older more established businesses then thats fine and dandy for Google as far as keeping their searchers happy.

      However rather than going the total fail method of trying to ressurrect spamming by doing it negatively I have to ask and answer the obvious questions.

      Its not credible to think marketers have been twiddling their thumbs for the last year and a half. Many HAVE been trying neg Seo and its been nowhere near as effective in many serps as people are drumming it up to be. In fact among marketers there are more stories about RANKING with scuzzy links than there are tanking even to this day.

      Therefore I'll spend my time working on getting the link profiles that are protective and yeah I'll skip the whole chicken little stom is a coming plot - cause I have been hearing about that from the first unnaturalink notices were sent out and it still hasn't come.

      You all do love the Drama though - Maybe make a movie?
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        BTW......I'll have to hold off on the T-shirt Dollz. My Sears Young teens department is out of chicken little imprints.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cobb
    I'm really hoping someone can make an automated disavow tool that will submit disavow requests for new links so I can leave it running and then tell it which links to keep when I add new links. Call it 'LinkShield' or something. Get on it warriors.

    Or maybe google should just pull their head out from their arse and just make spammy backlinks worthless instead of penalize them.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Cobb View Post

      I'm really hoping someone can make an automated disavow tool that will submit disavow requests for new links so I can leave it running and then tell it which links to keep when I add new links. Call it 'LinkShield' or something. Get on it warriors.

      Or maybe google should just pull their head out from their arse and just make spammy backlinks worthless instead of penalize them.
      This sounds like you want one automated spam tool and one automated disavow tool running at the same time

      I have a slight idea that won't work out as you expect
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  • Profile picture of the author NateOlsen
    I think it ultimately comes down to the updates only pick up some sites and not all, so you might actually rank your competitor lol so its like throwing a coin in the air and calling it.
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    • Profile picture of the author SEODollz
      Originally Posted by NateOlsen View Post

      I think it ultimately comes down to the updates only pick up some sites and not all, so you might actually rank your competitor lol so its like throwing a coin in the air and calling it.
      You should put that on your brochures.
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  • Profile picture of the author Make Money Ninja
    Nothing. I could literally take down any sites SEO rankings unless they are super duper authority site (Think wikipedia, bbc etc)

    All you need is scrapebox, xrumer, and bad blog networks. Virtually NOTHING is immune.

    You think im kidding? Suggest me your site and ill throw 500k links in a day at it and we will see

    Not saying its an ethical practice to neg people, or that i do it. But its really not that hard.

    2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by Make Money Ninja View Post

      Nothing. I could literally take down any sites SEO rankings unless they are super duper authority site (Think wikipedia, bbc etc)

      All you need is scrapebox, xrumer, and bad blog networks. Virtually NOTHING is immune.

      You think im kidding? Suggest me your site and ill throw 500k links in a day at it and we will see

      Not saying its an ethical practice to neg people, or that i do it. But its really not that hard.

      2 cents.
      Do you take requests?
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  • Profile picture of the author FranksToys
    Nothing is stopping them.

    Whats really stopping someone is business ethics. Unfortunately some people's ethics dont really exist.

    The only thing you can do is proactively watch your link profile.
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    "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this - that it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
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  • Profile picture of the author YaSI
    I am honestly a bit astonished... and for this reason, I dare raising this one simple (but for me quite obvious) question: why would anyone do negative SEO in the first place? I know - I might be 'blue eyed' - but come on: why ? Greed... maybe. Jealousy... quite obviously. Stupidity... absolutely! I like the word 'business ethics' - people who do this negative thing to others should have a good hard look at their on sh... and try to make it better before hurting others. - end of rant... :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author FranksToys
      Originally Posted by YaSI View Post

      I am honestly a bit astonished... and for this reason, I dare raising this one simple (but for me quite obvious) question: why would anyone do negative SEO in the first place? I know - I might be 'blue eyed' - but come on: why ? Greed... maybe. Jealousy... quite obviously. Stupidity... absolutely! I like the word 'business ethics' - people who do this negative thing to others should have a good hard look at their on sh... and try to make it better before hurting others. - end of rant... :-)
      100% agree with you. My big problem here is that people do negative SEO, it exists. I have had friends hit by it. The sad part is typically the cheaper the SEO the more effective it is for negative SEO. Its easy to do a lot of damage to a site.

      Until Google's results get really bad we won't see much improvement.
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      "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this - that it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by FranksToys View Post

        1
        Until Google's results get really bad we won't see much improvement.
        Thats just the point that no one can answer though. If negative SEO is so easy to do and affects everyone then why in over a year that this has been talked about hasn't Google got really bad results across the board?

        The argument (not that you are making any ) that Imers haven't gotten around to it or are just too ethical doesn't wash. these are the some of the same people knowingly using hacked sites through Sape to make a buck.

        The prevalence of negative SEO isn't even known (though the reality of it in some cases are). A number of site owners claiming they were allegedly "negatively SEOed" were building the links or having them built themselves.

        All in all from Google and the public's viewpoint its a non event. The cold hard truth is that neither the public or Google is missing many of the sites that get Negative SEO and like it or not the system may very well be built and content to let that happen. If weaker sites get slapped then who really cares besides the website owner? Google could even reason that negative SEO helps clean up the results as long as a worse site does not replace it on the first page.
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  • Profile picture of the author DizenSounds
    Im not even sure how this is a debatable topic at this point homey.

    It's this simple, do linkbuilding Google penalties exist? Of course. That's not even a debate as I received a penalty myself for unnatural links.

    Now did Google have proof I built these links? No way. They assumed based on the fact that who else would buy links to my website? In their mind negative seo is done on such a small scale that it doesn't matter if a few negative situations occur as long as the algorithm as a whole works.

    Negative seo does work and its very easy to do as long as the website doesn't have a signifcant backlink profile to begin with. Want to know the trick? Do really dumb SEO that a newbie with a big budget would do to try and rank a website. Give it some time and Google's algo will do the rest.
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  • Profile picture of the author squadron
    Originally Posted by Sonny Am View Post

    Hi,

    ...

    What is stopping one of your competitors firing thousands of spam links at your site with the same anchor text..and then just waiting for you to get demoted/penalized?

    ...
    Based on some experiments I have run with some throwaway sites, there is nothing to stop this. $200 worth of random Fiverr SEO gigs should do the trick.

    The only protection seems to be domain authority. The big and old authority sites seem to be immune to link spam, in fact it seems to help them.

    I don't see a lot of negative SEO, but I'm sure it happens in some industries.

    Here's what Matt Cutss says about the issue. Fast forward to 3:20 to get the meat.

    Negative SEO - YouTube
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