Proof POSITIVE of Pagerank's diminishng value AND A new search engine Using better metrics

16 replies
  • SEO
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First let me say that ANY metric can be gamed. Any of them - but the thing that makes a metric superior is that with a little training as to how the metric works you can make decent decisions about studying the domain or link opportunity deeper or moving on

Anyway been meaning to do this for awhile. we've not had a thread that actually prevented proof. So I Just dived into Register Compass and looked at a few PR4s listed. Here are three PR4s of note. You can find a bunch more any time

dentsonline.org PR4 DA 1 Trustflow ZERO
fceds.org PR4 DA 1 Moztrust 0 Trustflow ZERO
pixellence.org PR4 DA 1 Trustflow ZERO

In all three examples DA and trustflow beat the pants off of pagerank. To my backlink check all or almost all of these are worthless domains but because the market still insists on following PR they are snatched up either because the people who snatch them up know no better or because they are looking to fool link buyers that they are valuable.

Consider this. These domains will continue to show PR4 for as long as Google does not do an update to the tool bar (and even after if the update is incomplete or based on an earlier date).

PLEASE NOTE - They are ALREADY worthless for ranking because ranking does NOT depend on Toolbar PR

There are literally HUNDREDS of PR4s and up that have lost all their links but Google will not update them for a very long time.

Why does Moz and Majestic catch these and accurately record their worthlessness? Because Moz and Majestic are services that only have the interest of their subscribers in their business model. As such they update much more often and regularly. Google has a vested interest in keeping webmastes in the dark because they are in the business of search engine and adwords results.

Now of course some would say the others metrics can be gamed and that's true but because they are updated often the inaccuracy is for predictable reasons - usually spammed links. There is a world of difference when you know how a metric may be gamed and can therefore adjust for it and one that updates sporadically AND can be gamed as pagerank now is

In the case of High DAs a quick check of a high backlink count reveals a spammed domain and that will catch a ton load of bad high DA domains. When combined with trustflow faked DAs will generally show up even more if the trustflow is under 15. Edit - another key to look at is nofollow links which DA does not handle very well

As always before buying a domain or a link the backlink count of the resource should be checked. There is also a new backlink tool to go along with it

Looks to be a great tool but its also a kind of search engine (well not quite yet). Majestic apparently will be announcing today their "search explorer" product which will show the rankings for certain keywords according to link data they have.

Majestic SEO Search Explorer

Of course this won't match up with google results but by typing in a keyword (will be limited in words at first) and cross matching it with Google you MAY ( other things play a part in ranking than just links) get a better grasp off how their trust flow measure up in real serps. We probably will not to see PR soon and its way off now anyway due to few public updates.

Anyway between Moz and Majestic the loss of pagerank data should have very little long term effect. So little that I wonder if Google would not be better just leaving the false data up to fool link sellers and buyers that it still has use when it no longer does.
#bummed #dead #ease #engine #metric #metrics #pagerank #pain #proof #search
  • Profile picture of the author paulgl
    Perhaps you should have titled the thread,
    "Bummed about to having access to timely PageRank data????"

    PageRank is not going away, but, I guess we have to keep this
    "topic" going. I thought it's been beat to death...

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

      Perhaps you should have titled the thread,
      "Bummed about to having access to timely PageRank data????"
      Nope I wrote the title the way I wrote it. You can argue until the cows come home and twist yourself in a knot. If Pagerank becomes unavailable for people to know what it is then as a usable metric it has gone away. IF I take the last ruler on the planet out of your hand and walk away then the ruler has gone away as far as you are concerned. When you can show anyone where gone away means - no longer exist anywhere - then you will have a logical point

      Don't like basic common sense go write your own thread title. Don't mess up another one with the same old tired complaint.
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      • Profile picture of the author dennis09
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        IF I take the last ruler on the planet out of your hand and walk away
        I guess the real question here is do you feel lucky punk? Well, do ya???
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        There is no elevator to success, you have to take the stairs
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  • Profile picture of the author patadeperro
    I saw the video and it is not clear to me what they are trying to do, would you write a phrase such as: "Cancer" and they will give your the ranks of different sites based on their trust flow and citation flow?

    It is clear to me that their ranks wont be the same than Google's but it will be a very handy tool
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    That could turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread.
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  • Profile picture of the author patadeperro
    It seems that it is going to be a backlink search engine, here is an image of the results for make money

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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I don't understand the purpose.

    The screenshot patadeperro posted above for the keyword make money doesn't even show the #1 majestic page ranked on the first page of Google. So why would I care what majestic thinks, If that #1 majestic page isn't even in the game (Google SERPs)?

    This isn't a flame, I just don't see the point.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I don't understand the purpose.

      The screenshot patadeperro posted above for the keyword make money doesn't even show the #1 majestic page ranked on the first page of Google. So why would I care what majestic thinks, If that #1 majestic page isn't even in the game (Google SERPs)?

      This isn't a flame, I just don't see the point.
      Its usefulness is as a cross reference tool. You see the results in majestic search engine and you compare it against Google across a range of search results not just one.

      theres no given that the majestic search explore is going to index all the same sites so you can't use it to look at just one result and one serp. Plus its a beta - actually alpha - shot anyway. Plus it really is only going to speak to links not the other factors why sites rank so I wouldn't expect lineups or results one for one with Google.


      Personally I don't know what their search score is and I am not as big a fan of their citation flow as I am their trustflow. I would ignore their overall rankings and look at how the trustflow sites appear on Google.

      This makes that a lot easier.
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  • Profile picture of the author WareTime
    Ha! If PR is gone, then link sellers will have one less metric to price by.
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    • Profile picture of the author paulgl
      So, google hiding timely PR data is "PageRank going away,"
      (which is a nonsense statement), I wonder if google
      hiding keyword data also means "Keyword data going away."

      Where are all the threads about how keyword data is now
      "going away"?

      Since google is hiding this as well, everyone should now be
      not worrying about keyword data since it too is "going away."

      Maybe for the last time, just because google hides something,
      does not mean it is going away.

      I can only imagine what some of you think when you can block out
      the sun with your thumb...

      Paul
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      If you were disappointed in your results today, lower your standards tomorrow.

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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

        So, google hiding timely PR data is "PageRank going away,"
        (which is a nonsense statement), I wonder if google
        hiding keyword data also means "Keyword data going away."
        :rolleyes::rolleyes: Why yes Paul. You continue to be quite daft on this subject. When keyword data from google is completely hidden will it be accurate to say that their data will still be with the public?

        No, as a metric coming from google that can be measured it will be gone. bye bye. See you later (well never in fact) . SO of course the data from google will be gone as far as the public is concerned. They will have to look for data somewhere else.


        I can only imagine what some of you think when you can block out
        the sun with your thumb..
        .
        Have your thumbs permanently attached to your retina and yes Paul for your retina sunlight is gone away. According to you all sunlight could be blocked by google,diverted to their new base on the moon and sunlight would not have gone away from earth because google still has it.

        Your nonsense argument over semantics is getting no better and for like the fourth time....Gone away is not synonymous with "does not exist". Before talking about others making nonsense statements at least educate yourself and look up the meaning of an expression.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by paulgl View Post

        I wonder if google
        hiding keyword data also means "Keyword data going away."
        Sorry, keywords are last years SEO.

        To Keyword Or Not To Keyword
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    When is SEO going away?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author hipeopo02
      isn't really just about backlinks? PR/DA/Trust catches my eye as a starting point if anything. I just look at backlink profiles one way or another.
      Signature
      A crappy product or service by people that disappear from the forum for a long period of time to make it look like they were working on something so when they come back you will want to click on their crappy product or service link

      CLICK HERE! LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by hipeopo02 View Post

        isn't really just about backlinks? PR/DA/Trust catches my eye as a starting point if anything. I just look at backlink profiles one way or another.

        You always should
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