Domains with DA/PA but no PR?

by Synnuh
37 replies
  • SEO
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I've got a ton of domains for a network I setup, and since PR just updated I went back to check them. I'm stoked with the results but I'm confused, too.

I have a bunch that have PA/DA in the ~30 range but no PR. Links are valid in aHrefs, and Moz, so they should have gotten some PR.

Does this mean something happened to the sites in the past?

Or what does it mean? I'm new to DA/PA so it's not completely clear on how this is working out.
#da or pa #domains
  • Profile picture of the author syrena143
    Originally Posted by insuranceguy View Post

    I've got a ton of domains for a network I setup, and since PR just updated I went back to check them. I'm stoked with the results but I'm confused, too.

    I have a bunch that have PA/DA in the ~30 range but no PR. Links are valid in aHrefs, and Moz, so they should have gotten some PR.

    Does this mean something happened to the sites in the past?

    Or what does it mean? I'm new to DA/PA so it's not completely clear on how this is working out.
    PR not only depend on Backlinks but also on Quality of the content too.
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  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    PR isn't updated very often - lots of threads on here with people talking about in more depth but the executive summary is "don't panic".
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  • Profile picture of the author internalsoul
    Originally Posted by insuranceguy View Post

    I've got a ton of domains for a network I setup, and since PR just updated I went back to check them. I'm stoked with the results but I'm confused, too.

    I have a bunch that have PA/DA in the ~30 range but no PR. Links are valid in aHrefs, and Moz, so they should have gotten some PR.

    Does this mean something happened to the sites in the past?

    Or what does it mean? I'm new to DA/PA so it's not completely clear on how this is working out.
    May be you dont have newly indexed backlinks and that could be one of the reason that the site losts its PR. Loosing PR to 0 doesn't mean you have been penalized. Your sites have good DA/PA and its time to create some fresh quality backlinks. It will help you increase your site's DA/PA and also probable PR increase in next update. As long as your site is ranking well, you dont need to worry much.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by syrena143 View Post

      PR not only depend on Backlinks but also on Quality of the content too.
      Content has nothing to do with PR.


      To the OP, DA/PA is highly inaccurate. I wouldn't get too excited about it. I've spammed the crap out of a few domains, and their DA/PA shot up to over 60.

      Meanwhile, Google deindexed them.

      MozRank and MozTrust are a little better. Majestic SEO's metrics are better yet, but can sometimes still be misleading.
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      • Profile picture of the author SEOMasters
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        Content has nothing to do with PR.


        To the OP, DA/PA is highly inaccurate. I wouldn't get too excited about it. I've spammed the crap out of a few domains, and their DA/PA shot up to over 60.

        Meanwhile, Google deindexed them.

        MozRank and MozTrust are a little better. Majestic SEO's metrics are better yet, but can sometimes still be misleading.
        I disagree there Mike.

        I have a new site, not a lot of content, no backlinks.
        After this update from PR0 to PR4.........

        Also DA/PA take a lot more factors in account than PR.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by SEOMasters View Post

          I disagree there Mike.

          I have a new site, not a lot of content, no backlinks.
          After this update from PR0 to PR4.........

          Also DA/PA take a lot more factors in account than PR.
          You can disagree all you want, but you would be wrong. PR comes from backlinks, and backlinks alone. If your site is showing as a PR 4, it is either wrong or there are links you don't know about.

          DA/PA is much too easily manipulated to rely on it. It is ok to use it to weed out totally useless pages, but I would not get excited about a page having a high DA/PA.

          And if you are dumb enough to be excited about DA/PA by itself, give me about 6 weeks and I will sell a whole bunch of high DA/PA sites to you.
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          • Profile picture of the author SEOMasters
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            You can disagree all you want, but you would be wrong. PR comes from backlinks, and backlinks alone. If your site is showing as a PR 4, it is either wrong or there are links you don't know about.

            DA/PA is much too easily manipulated to rely on it. It is ok to use it to weed out totally useless pages, but I would not get excited about a page having a high DA/PA.

            And if you are dumb enough to be excited about DA/PA by itself, give me about 6 weeks and I will sell a whole bunch of high DA/PA sites to you.

            Please do, sell me all the high DA/PA domains you have just don't take away the backlinks

            I know if there are backlinks to that site or not and there are ZERO.
            No redirects, nothing.

            I also can't see how you are right about PR.

            1. Easy to manipulate
            2. Not a lot of updates per year
            3. Only 0-10 and DA 0-100
            4. PR not taking in account the relevancy and DA does
            5. Google stepping away from PR

            and the list goes on and on.

            10 good DA/PA domains with Mozrank will outrank your 10 PR4 domains anyday.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by SEOMasters View Post

              Please do, sell me all the high DA/PA domains you have just don't take away the backlinks
              I'll create and sell you sites with DA of 30+ at $300/domain all day long.

              Originally Posted by SEOMasters View Post

              I know if there are backlinks to that site or not and there are ZERO. No redirects, nothing.
              PR could be faked. There still could be links you don't know about. There could have been high PR links pointing to it that no longer exist, however when Google updates the toolbar display it is always old data, sometimes even months behind.

              Originally Posted by SEOMasters View Post

              I also can't see how you are right about PR.

              1. Easy to manipulate
              2. Not a lot of updates per year
              3. Only 0-10 and DA 0-100
              4. PR not taking in account the relevancy and DA does
              5. Google stepping away from PR

              and the list goes on and on.
              Easy to manipulate? PR is not easy to manipulate. It is easy to create pages that show incorrect data in the PR toolbar, but Google knows the real PR so you gain nothing by that other than trying to scam domain buyers.

              You are right, DA does get updated much more often than PR, but DA is so flawed that it doesn't matter. The problem with DA is that it is based on OSE's link database which is a huge piece of crap.

              And you are wrong about DA counting relevancy. I've blasted sites with all kinds of non-relevant junk links and saw their DA skyrocket.

              Splitting hairs here, but you are also wrong about Google stepping away from PR. Google will continue to use PR internally. They might not update it publicly as often and may even send out some mixed signals on it, but it is not going away.

              If you really want to make a case for using any single metric over PR, it should be Majestic's Trust Flow and Citation Flow, not Moz's crap DA.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

            DA/PA is much too easily manipulated to rely on it. It is ok to use it to weed out totally useless pages, but I would not get excited about a page having a high DA/PA.

            And if you are dumb enough to be excited about DA/PA by itself, give me about 6 weeks and I will sell a whole bunch of high DA/PA sites to you.
            DA is a s fine as any other metric Mike. No? Then I got a pr4 I'd like to sell you. Picked it up the day after the PR updated for $9 for no other reason but to show that PR is nowhere near as reliable as people make it out to be. Surprise surprise. the DA is FAR FAR more accurate when you see the links. This is a domain that expired like a month ago that no one wanted and boom Google gave it a PR4 at the last update. I could have grabbed a bunch more (and people are just to fool people and build up their services)

            Any and all metrics can be gamed and all of them have to be taken with other things looked at.


            SEOMasters I had a domain for around 18 months that Google said was a PR4. I never found a link for it and never used it . So neither content nor links. Finally fell last update but the Moz metrics had it right for a long long time while the PR did not.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              DA is a s fine as any other metric Mike. No? Then I got a pr4 I'd like to sell you. Picked it up the day after the PR updated for $9 for no other reason but to show that PR is nowhere near as reliable as people make it out to be. Surprise surprise. the DA is FAR FAR more accurate when you see the links. This is a domain that expired like a month ago that no one wanted and boom Google gave it a PR4 at the last update. I could have grabbed a bunch more (and people are just to fool people and build up their services)

              Any and all metrics can be gamed and all of them have to be taken with other things looked at.
              Mike, I'm really not arguing for PR here. I'm arguing against DA/PA used by themselves. You know as well as I that out of all the possible link metrics out there, DA and PA are the easiest to manipulate.

              I know, you can look at the links themselves and get a better idea. Of course.

              I'm simply saying nobody should be excited about a domain having a high DA without investigating it a lot further. By itself, DA is totally unreliable. It can be used in conjunction with other metrics, but DA is flawed on its own because OSE's database sucks.

              Now if OSE had a link database more comparable to the size of Ahrefs, I would trust DA a little more.

              Still far too easy to spam a domain to a good DA number.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                Mike, I'm really not arguing for PR here. I'm arguing against DA/PA used by themselves. You know as well as I that out of all the possible link metrics out there, DA and PA are the easiest to manipulate.
                Do I? Look like I said No metric should be used by itself - nada. So always singling out DA as you do just makes it look like you have joined Yuke's anti Moz band wagon. I will take Moz with Majestic combined any day over PR yet i don't see many people saying that no one should get excited over PR alone.

                Link spam faking DA? Really? Thats the big issue? What you are talking about is something so easy to detect that I just don't see it as the big issue you do. Checking the backlink count on a high DA is done in a second. Its easier than checking a redirect on a faked PR. So no big deal because backlinks shuld be checked anyway everytime

                I know, you can look at the links themselves and get a better idea. Of course. I'm simply saying nobody should be excited about a domain having a high DA without investigating it a lot further.
                Thats the only take away for any metric Mike which is why I don't get why you single out DA all the time.

                Now if OSE had a link database more comparable to the size of Ahrefs, I would trust DA a little more.

                Still far too easy to spam a domain to a good DA number.
                And still so drop down easy to detect that it makes no big deal. As for size OSE database isn't really intended to get all links just the more powerful good ones. That doesn't hurt you at all because there will always be more links than OSE is reporting so almost always the sites are STRONGER than reported.

                You can make the argument that you might miss out on some good opportunities with a smaller OSE database metric but you can't make the argument it wil llead you to make a bad buy if you check the backlinks with it.like you should ALWAYS with ANY metric.

                Less reported links is undervaluing not over valuing.
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  • Profile picture of the author online only
    A) Depends on the links. Are they real/natural/editorial links?

    or..

    B) Profile, blog comments, socialbookmark type of links?

    If A (highly doubtful) then doesn't really matter - I would still build a network out of them
    If B - Yes, I would drop em.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Originally Posted by insuranceguy View Post

    I've got a ton of domains for a network I setup, and since PR just updated I went back to check them. I'm stoked with the results but I'm confused, too.

    I have a bunch that have PA/DA in the ~30 range but no PR. Links are valid in aHrefs, and Moz, so they should have gotten some PR..
    What kind of links? If they are links with PR themselves then trust the DA more. Mike F is right that DA can be gamed with a lot of links but thats no big deal and easy to determine based on the amount of links. However the last PR update was old data Google used and frankly in the absence of spam links Moz amd Majestic Metrics should be trusted over PR.
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  • Profile picture of the author dennis09
    I prefer a combination of PA, DA, Mozrank and TrustFlow a lot better than PR. I only use domains for myself so I really don't care about PR anymore. A lot of gems out there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by dennis09 View Post

      I prefer a combination of PA, DA, Mozrank and TrustFlow a lot better than PR. I only use domains for myself so I really don't care about PR anymore. A lot of gems out there.
      People trust PR more because its from Google. They trust without realizing that of all the companies involved in putting out metrics Google is the only one that has a very strong incentive NOT to give current reliable metrics for SEO.

      Like you said though..the silver lining is that as long as people keep drinking the PR kool aid there will be some sweet deals out there. Picked up a domain yesterday with some solid PR6 and PR5 links. PR says worthless DA says pretty Good.

      Yeah I think I will go with the metric picking up on the PR6 links
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        People trust PR more because its from Google. They trust without realizing that of all the companies involved in putting out metrics Google is the only one that has a very strong incentive NOT to give current reliable metrics for SEO.

        Like you said though..the silver lining is that as long as people keep drinking the PR kool aid there will be some sweet deals out there. Picked up a domain yesterday with some solid PR6 and PR5 links. PR says worthless DA says pretty Good.

        Yeah I think I will go with the metric picking up on the PR6 links
        $11
        6 PR5 Homepage links over 4 years old. Profile is small and clean as a whistle.


        Originally Posted by SEOMasters View Post

        I disagree there Mike.

        I have a new site, not a lot of content, no backlinks.
        After this update from PR0 to PR4.........

        Also DA/PA take a lot more factors in account than PR.
        Delete your account here and start again after that post. And your in the business of selling blog network links too. OMFG
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Mike, I'm talking about the OP here.

    He mentioned domains that have a PA/DA of around 30, but are showing no PR. Without seeing some other metrics to back it up, there is nothing to get excited about there.

    Back when PR was updated regularly and everyone felt it was more trustworthy, we could see it all the time. PA/DA just didn't match up many times with PR. I've seen nothing to make me think that anything has changed. The only thing any of us used it for was to spot obviously fake PR domains.

    MozRank and MozTrust were always better metrics than DA or PA.

    If you are using a combination of Citation Flow, Trust Flow, MozRank, MozTrust, and PR, I see no reason to include DA or PA from there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Mike, I'm talking about the OP here.

      He mentioned domains that have a PA/DA of around 30, but are showing no PR. Without seeing some other metrics to back it up, there is nothing to get excited about there.
      So? Can't the same be said about PR or any metric? The PR4 I just bought for $9 says that pretty clearly

      Back when PR was updated regularly and everyone felt it was more trustworthy, we could see it all the time. PA/DA just didn't match up many times with PR.
      It did many times although due to the nature of the numbering you would more compare to mozrank.. Ive read a few studies in the past on it and I can look them up for you. Like you said you can spam that out but like I said spotting link spam count is just so drop down easy for anyone to see its no big deal. Redirects and faked PR is a far harder problem to detect.

      Frankly i don't know how often Pr was updated to any accuracy as you claim because there were Pr updates where I saw things that made no sense whatsoever like the PR4 I mentioned that stayed that way for 18 months with no links anywhere I could fine. Huge chunks of the data was not accurate even last year.

      Most people do but you cannot overlook the reality that Google doesn't really want Webmasters, domain and link buyers and sellers having up to date information. Moz and majestic have that interest because delivering the metrics is core to their business. When a company doesn't even want to update their metrics its not sensible to me to think they are going to deliver accurate information in order to be any standard to compare the others to

      Sure its Google but hey its the same Google that wants to hide things for their core business = being a search engine.. Its the same Google hates links and domain being sold on PR and fighs against people utilizing that metric.

      I've seen nothing to make me think that anything has changed.
      Really Mike. One update in nearly 11 months that according to Cutts himself only happened because engineers were doing something else and found it easier to push out some new ( new old) data. How in the world can you claim with Google saying they are less committed than ever to updating their metric that nothing has changed. That alone makes both Moz and Majestic metrics close alot of gaps.

      If you are using a combination of Citation Flow, Trust Flow, MozRank, MozTrust, and PR, I see no reason to include DA or PA from there.
      If I am using DA/PA , trustflow and Mozrank I see not reason to use PR when it is updated once a year and then with months old data. As a mtter of fact thats what I use now and its fine and dandy. To be honest Mike I have found Citation flow to be the skunk of the lot probably because its designed to be the skunk and report on citation regardless of quality.


      anyway I use all the metrics at some point.. Since I think people should always check the backlinks I just see no reason to concentrate on DA as being the only one potentially flawed . they all have their flaws and with a little knowledge of the flaws still work nicely..
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        I've seen nothing to make me think that anything has changed.
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Really Mike. One update in nearly 11 months that according to Cutts himself only happened because engineers were doing something else and found it easier to push out some new ( new old) data. How in the world can you claim with Google saying they are less committed than ever to updating their metric that nothing has changed. That alone makes both Moz and Majestic metrics close alot of gaps.

        You are taking that comment out of context. I made that comment in reference to my feelings on DA. Nothing to do with PR. Things have certainly changed with PR.

        I still think DA is just too all over the place to even bother looking at. Everyone else is free to do whatever they want with it though. I just do not trust it anymore than I trust PR.

        The only thing I really use OSE for at all anymore is to detect redirects. For whatever reason, they seem to do a better job of that than any of the other link databases.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          You are taking that comment out of context. I made that comment in reference to my feelings on DA. Nothing to do with PR. Things have certainly changed with PR.
          Nope. I did not take anything out of context. You were talking about how DA compared to Pagerank. If Pr changed it logically means how they compare would change You can't change a value of one item without affecting a comparison with another. Thats illogical. Further you are holdign PR as the metric that DA should be evaluated against (or it wouldn't matter how they compared to begin with) which at this point is not solid.

          I still think DA is just too all over the place to even bother looking at.
          Bleh... I don't know what you are taking about Mike but its your opinion to hold so so be it. I evaluate about 70-100 domains a day for most of this year and there is nothing all over the place with DA. I would submit you just haven't done enough work with the metrics. Blasting sites and seing their Da go up isn't how to ealuate a metric. using it on a wide range of domains and link patterns is.

          Anyway Like yuke yours is the minority view.

          Ton loads of professioal SEOs use these and other moz metrics such to the point that they are being built into most SEO tools. IF they were as useless as you claim that would not be the case. The fact that they can be gamed means nothing more than it would for Pagerank which can and has been gamed for years.

          Even OSE itself has a solid use in filtering high PR domains. When looking for very high authority and up you will rarely if ever find that OSE has no links and using register compass and a filter set for OSE links you will instantly filter out a ton load of domains that PR alone might have you looking at.

          Given that there are three major metric companies and One (google) is saying that they will not be putting much into updating their metrics it only seems logical to me you would want to learn how to work with the remaining two. The remaining two can be gamed just as well so the distinction is pointless

          Still even if that left only Majestic - Would we all evaluate domains and links on just one remaining company? That makes no sense to me.

          If you say that Mozrank is Ok then I would definitely say you really have not worked with DA enough because there is no doubt a correlation between DA and Mozrank quite frequently.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Nope. I did not take anything out of context. You were talking about how DA compared to Pagerank.
            No, I was making a comment on DA only, not how it compared to PR.

            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            I evaluate about 70-100 domains a day for most of this year
            That's all? Lightweight...

            If people want to evaluate webpages using a host of metrics that include DA/PA, that's fine. I use plenty of other metrics, but choose not to look at DA for anything other than eliminating obviously worthless domains and for quickly seeing which version of the domain has the majority of the backlinks pointing at it (WWW or non-WWW).

            Like I said though, using DA/PA on its own, like the ORIGINAL POSTER WAS ASKING ABOUT, is a poor way to evaluate anything and will many times mislead you.

            Looking at just PR is stupid. Looking at just Trust Flow is stupid. Looking at just MozRank is stupid. Looking at any of these without evaluating the backlinks AND making sure that the backlinks actually exist is stupid. People who plug a URL into Ahrefs, see a ton of links, and then think the page or domain are great are stupid. Half those links could have disappeared in the past month.

            As for my feelings on Moz, I'm not bashing Moz. I think Moz puts out some good stuff. I like their correlation report just because they have access to more data than just about anyone other than the major search engines.

            I think they are full of crap on a lot of stuff too. For example, the way they have preached white hat SEO, meanwhile for years they had Distilled out there in the trenches doing actual SEO work that was far from white hat.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              That's all? Lightweight...
              Yep I have a decent filtering system so though I go through hundreds I only need to evaluate 70-100

              Like I said though, using DA/PA on its own, like the ORIGINAL POSTER WAS ASKING ABOUT, is a poor way to evaluate anything and will many times mislead you
              Mike I read it different. OP does mention links he checked and is aware of. He isn't evaluating fresh. he's talkng about domains he already knows the link profile to.

              Anyway commented because recently I have seen you ranting on DA to the exclusion of almost any other metric and they all have flaws but they all offer value
              .
              For example, the way they have preached white hat SEO, meanwhile for years they had Distilled out there in the trenches doing actual SEO work that was far from white hat.
              LOL yes I know half the Moz hatred comes from them preaching white hat which is a no no to an IM crowd. Seriously though what else could they do? I would play that up to if I was that much in Google's view.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                LOL yes I know half the Moz hatred comes from them preaching white hat which is a no no to an IM crowd. Seriously though what else could they do? I would play that up to if I was that much in Google's view.
                No. I don't mind anyone preaching white hat. That does not bother me at all. It's the fact that they were saying one thing while doing something completely different for so long. That's what always bothered me about them.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                  No. I don't mind anyone preaching white hat. That does not bother me at all. It's the fact that they were saying one thing while doing something completely different for so long. That's what always bothered me about them.
                  Wheres your proof that they never did white hat? Still sounds like sour grapes to me.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    Wheres your proof that they never did white hat? Still sounds like sour grapes to me.
                    Really? You've never seen the stories all over the place about Distilled?

                    No sour grapes. I am just not a big fan of hypocrisy.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                      Really? You've never seen the stories all over the place about Distilled?

                      No sour grapes. I am just not a big fan of hypocrisy.
                      Questions still remains unanswered

                      Wheres your proof that they never did White hat?

                      See I never expected a big SEO company to step out and tell people to do black hat. If I took over Moz tomorrow I would not talk about building SEO networks. I'd concentrate on white hat for three reasons

                      A) its what my audience would want
                      B) It keeps my liability issues lower dealing with big companies
                      C) It keeps Google whose watching me closely off my back

                      So still sounds like sour grapes because given the same profile most SEOs would not announce to the world they did shady things.
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            • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              No, I was making a comment on DA only, not how it compared to PR.
              Sure you were. Here it is in black and white

              Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

              Back when PR was updated regularly and everyone felt it was more trustworthy, we could see it all the time. PA/DA just didn't match up many times with PR. I've seen nothing to make me think that anything has changed. .
              No need to falsely accuse me of taking you out of context when that was the EXACT context. How is "didn't match up" not comparison?
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    How did I get dragged into this, I'm not even wearing my anti-moz t-shirt today?

    Anyways...

    Doesn't moz DA/PA also look at PR?

    I'm sure I also once read on moz (why?) that moz diy metrics is counting social votes.

    Lets hear it from the moz pros (lol), what say you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    I remember late last year I saw gstatic.com in a GD auction. No one had made any bids on it, PR3. So I made bid (the only bid) $80



    Unfortunately the holding company must have woke up at the last minute.



    I'd have taken that for $80, regardless of PR.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Are you kidding me? For years it was the worst kept secret in the SEO industry.

    Distilled was doing all kinds of things that Moz was saying didn't work or were bad SEO practices. Maybe you weren't paying attention to them back then. I don't know.

    The hypocrisy wouldn't have been that bad except for the fact that Moz was regularly outing other 'shady' SEO companies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      Are you kidding me? For years it was the worst kept secret in the SEO industry.

      Distilled was doing all kinds of things that Moz was saying didn't work or were bad SEO practices. Maybe you weren't paying attention to them back then. I don't know.

      The hypocrisy wouldn't have been that bad except for the fact that Moz was regularly outing other 'shady' SEO companies.
      Mike I gather you are not going to answer the question. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder which explains why you are always going on about DA and Moz metrics something I have never seen you do with majestic although citation flow can be gamed out of this world.. There is no kidding. I am merely stating that NO COMPANY in the SEO public space dealing with corporate clientele was going to come out and openly propose Black hat techniques. I don't see that as hypocrisy.

      Even we don't always come out and say we do grey hat and we are nowhere near on Google's radar so I am simply saying that its not surprising to me that Moz would not promote anything but white hat publicly. its a very simple point.

      I really don't give a rip about getting into ancient history and who outed who. Black hat could always get you into trouble but in past years it worked more so it doesn't surprise me that any company out there a few years ago may have used certain techniques even while pointing out the down sides of Black hat publicly. It is and was a two edged sword so its not even vaguely surprising Moz would recommend avoiding it for a certain segment of their viewers and preach white hat.

      Plus maybe its you that hasn't paid attention. I have seen many a white board friday admit to black hat working but then saying its not recommended with wry smile from the presenter. I expect nothing more with Google watching

      All of this doesn't mean anything to the Metrics and Moz hypocrisy or lack of it does not matter beans to the usefulness of their metrics. If they did then people should not use Pagerank at all because no one is more full of hypocrisy than Google for claiming that no one should manipulate results with bought links and then selling the top three results in the organic column for the highest bids.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    You two still at it?
    I've ran out of popcorn and I'm down to my last cheese cracker :p
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  • Profile picture of the author axemantech
    Unfortunately all metrics are easy to manipulate. To evaluate a domain you need to check the Page Rank, Moz Domain Authority, Moz Rank, Majestic Seo Citation and Trust Flow.
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    Thank you for your responses... I guess, lol..

    Anyway, in the OP, I was talking about domains I already owned. There's no "panic" about them not having PR, I was just curious about the anomaly. They're still getting used for links.

    The sites in question do have legitimate links. I just checked the first site and it's got 4 PR4 links, 6 PR3 links, and a bunch others. No PR, but high DA / PA, good MozRank & MozTrust.

    I'm just wondering if this means they sold links or something to get the PR stripped in the past? Archive.org checked out or I wouldn't have bought the domain. I'm not new, but this is something weird I figured someone else might have an explanation for.

    As far as Citation Flow and Trust Flow go, what are good numbers to use as a baseline? Anything to compare sorta apples to apples, or at least close to it so I can build a frame of reference in my head?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by Synnuh View Post

      Thank you for your responses... I guess, lol..

      Anyway, in the OP, I was talking about domains I already owned. There's no "panic" about them not having PR, I was just curious about the anomaly.

      The sites in question do have legitimate links. I just checked the first site and it's got 4 PR4 links, 6 PR3 links, and a bunch others. No PR, but high DA / PA, good MozRank & MozTrust.

      As far as Citation Flow and Trust Flow go, what are good numbers to use as a baseline? Anything to compare sorta apples to apples, or at least close to it so I can build a frame of reference in my head?
      They hijacked your thread and you where not even here to see it. :p:p:p
      I bought a fresh 6 pack of microwave popcorn today, I'll share some with you if you want to troll them awake again.

      I like to see +25 TF
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    I like kettle corn or movie theater butter. >;-D
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by Synnuh View Post

      I like kettle corn or movie theater butter. >;-D
      UHHH we have an Aristocrat in the house..
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