Does anyone know a trustworthy white hat link-building company?

10 years ago

What's your monthly budget?
What's your onpage like?
What are your goals?
What is the site making now? (monthly)
What are your conversion rates?
What forms of marketing are you investing in?
What's already working?
Do you have a list?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809393].message }}

MikeyUK

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

What's your monthly budget?
What's your onpage like?
What are your goals?
What is the site making now? (monthly)
What are your conversion rates?
What forms of marketing are you investing in?
What's already working?
Do you have a list?

Hey John, thanks for your input. Here's some answers:

My monthly budget is flexible but ideally somewhere around £100 GBP.
My goal is to rank 11 pages on my site as number 1 in SERPs for their keywords. The niche isn't super-competitive; each page will need no more than 40 decent backlinks to get into the top 3 search results.
The site currently makes around £1200 GBP per month.
Conversion rates fluctuate hugely due to the seasonal nature of the niche.
There are no other forms of marketing apart from a small amount of social media activity - the site's traffic is almost 100% from organic search.
What's working? The site's affiliate revenue is doing well.
A list of what, keywords?

Thanks, hopefully this information helps....?

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809689].message }}

danparks

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

My monthly budget is flexible but ideally somewhere around £100 GBP.
My goal is to rank 11 pages on my site as number 1 in SERPs for their keywords. The niche isn't super-competitive; each page will need no more than 40 decent backlinks to get into the top 3 search results.

Think about your list of needs. You want to spend about £100 GBP per month, and you want to rank 11 keywords each at #1. So you're hoping to spend about £10 GBP per keyword per month to rank #1. Does that sound reasonable or possible? You'd be better to up your budget and focus on one single keyword (it's fine to target many keywords, but you'd really need a much larger budget).

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809851].message }}

YasirYar

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

Hey John, thanks for your input. Here's some answers:

My monthly budget is flexible but ideally somewhere around £100 GBP.
My goal is to rank 11 pages on my site as number 1 in SERPs for their keywords. The niche isn't super-competitive; each page will need no more than 40 decent backlinks to get into the top 3 search results.
The site currently makes around £1200 GBP per month.
Conversion rates fluctuate hugely due to the seasonal nature of the niche.
There are no other forms of marketing apart from a small amount of social media activity - the site's traffic is almost 100% from organic search.
What's working? The site's affiliate revenue is doing well.
A list of what, keywords?

Thanks, hopefully this information helps....?

With such a low budget, it is very safe to say that the link building you get will be spammy, extremely low quality and will get you ranked nowhere.

Just sayin, your expectations are unrealistic.

Thanks

Signature

>>>Get your websites ACTUALLY ranked by checking these out: Quantum SEO Labs, Home Page Link Building & SERP Ability. Want to get rid of negative listings? Check out Reputation Enhancer.

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810784].message }}

Ricardo Furtado

10 years ago

Hard to find a “trustworthy white hat link-building company”.

But you can check out some service providers on Fiverr.

All the best. Regards

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Ricardo Furtado

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809402].message }}

John Romaine 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Ricardo Furtado

But you can check out some service providers on Fiverr.

Did you even read the OP?
- [ 2 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809404].message }}
- Ricardo Furtado 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by John Romaine
  
  Did you even read the OP?
  
  Perhaps I do not know English.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Ricardo Furtado
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809407].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

“trustworthy white hat link-building company”.

there are so many oxymorons in this phrase its not even funny.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809412].message }}

John Romaine 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

"trustworthy white hat link-building company".

there are so many oxymorons in this phrase its not even funny.

Why?

We do exist, it's just that most people are too interested in "cheap SEO"
- Thanks
- 2 replies
Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809429].message }}
- Ricardo Furtado 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by John Romaine
  
  Why?
  
  We do exist, it's just that most people are too interested in "cheap SEO"
  
  Now I see why i got under your skin...LOLZ....
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  Ricardo Furtado
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809431].message }}
- Nicholas H 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by John Romaine
  
  Why?
  
  We do exist, it's just that most people are too interested in "cheap SEO"
  
  They do exist? Funny how someone would pay someone else to not do anything and pray the site starts getting links naturally. You know, "White Hat SEO"...
  
  The only true "Whitehat SEO" I can think of would be removing a clients bad links from bad practices on their end, On site SEO, and maybe finding a couple Guest Post opportunities. Also maybe managing their Social Network accounts. Other than that, any link created by the service provider or owner wouldn't be "White Hat".
  
  Funny how there are all these different colored hats, and nobody seems to get the definition right about them. Or Is It all just speculation, labeling, and marketing so people think they are getting something better?
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810625].message }}
  
  Mike Anthony 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Nicholas H
  
  The only true "Whitehat SEO" I can think of
  
  Doesn't really matter what you can only think of. there are all kinds of ways to do white hat without you knowing about them
  
  Funny how there are all these different colored hats, and nobody seems to get the definition right about them.
  
  Again speaking for yourself does not mean you can speak for others. Theres no mystery about white hat. Its easy to define. The fact that spammers and sellers pushing link spam want to muddy it up means little.
  
  White hat is where the webmaster/owner of a site puts a link to a site based on the merits of the site and its content. Wow that was easy and you just said no one knows.
  
  White hat link building is when you make webmasters aware of content or a site and they choose to link to it.
  
  EZ peazy.
  
  The only reason people are in the dark about what white hat is is because people fool themselves (or others) and they do that because they want to call their grey hat white hat.
  
  Me I build still use SEO networks. I am fine with it but I see no reason to tell people it is white hat.
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810649].message }}
reaboss 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

"trustworthy white hat link-building company".

there are so many oxymorons in this phrase its not even funny.

my thoughts exactly. there is nothing "whitehat" about linkbuilding
- Thanks
Signature
my no fail strategy for 2014
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810861].message }}

salmansafder

10 years ago

yes, tell me your exact requirements, i am here at your service.

Thanks

Signature

SS

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809447].message }}

linkbuildr

10 years ago

Us - at least $2500/month starting budget

Distilled - I'd say at least a couple grand a month budget wise as well

Internet Marketing Ninjas - again, a few grand.

You want the real deal you're going to need a proper budget and a site that isn't horrible.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

Signature

Linkbuildr.com
@Linkbuildr

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809704].message }}

Mike Anthony 10 years ago

ROFL This is the thread of the month

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

Hi guys, does anyone know of a trustworthy white hat link-building company?

so this guy walks into a brothel looking for a virgin wife.

My monthly budget is flexible but ideally somewhere around £100 GBP

That just might buy a good white paper hat

yes, tell me your exact requirements, i am here at your service.

And I will meet none of your requirements for half price

Fun stuff for Christmas. Its like a celebrity roast. The jokes just keep coming
- Thanks
- 3 replies
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809744].message }}
- danparks 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  Fun stuff for Christmas. Its like a celebrity roast. The jokes just keep coming
  
  That's what's nice about the warrior forum. It's not just for Christmas - it's the gift that keeps on giving, all year round!
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809868].message }}
- johnbrown12 10 years ago
  
  [QUOTE=Mike Anthony;8809744]ROFL This is the thread of the month
  
  so this guy walks into a brothel looking for a virgin wife.
  
  Nice one Mike
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
  Signature
  How to make money from $3000 to $7000 per month:
  
  http://forms.aweber.com/form/85/530278285.htm
  
  *JOIN 900+ Warriors*
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812039].message }}
- Andrew S 10 years ago
  
  You can find white-hat link building providers but you should get more specific first. This requires a little know-how but not a ton.
  
  If you can't tell the difference between what an xrumer campaign looks like vs social bookmark blasts vs legit guest posting then you're going to have a tough time figuring out what side is up.
  
  Another issue is a lot of folks sell links that worked pre-penguin but these days will harm your site. If you don't have any experience knowing what these services are you're again going to have a tough time. Real example. I used to sell a really effective blog network syndication service that I had to shut down after Panda/Penguin rolled through because it just wasn't ethical to continue to sell services like this (If I don't use it, I don't sell it). To this day you can still find people selling these kinds of services and iterations of them.
  
  My best advice is to find out what links work today and then find specific providers to fulfill those specific requirements. If you go to BST and haven't got a clue what you're looking for, you'll probably come out with a negative ROI after you press the buy button.
  
  Good luck.
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  so this guy walks into a brothel looking for a virgin wife.
  
  Hahahahaha..........
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  Marketer's Center is creating free tools for the SEO community!
  Sick Analytics: Find and fix your worst pages. Entity Explorer: Make your content better with related entities.
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816714].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

What's your monthly budget?
What's your onpage like?
What are your goals?
What is the site making now? (monthly)
What are your conversion rates?
What forms of marketing are you investing in?
What's already working?
Do you have a list?

every question you asked is for you LOL. you didnt even ask what business he is in.

Originally Posted by John Romaine

Why?

We do exist, it's just that most people are too interested in "cheap SEO"

The site has a in your sig has a handful of backlinks with the majority being nofollow. Terrible backlink profile.

It looks like the majority of traffic to it comes from this forum. it's a good thing you post so much here.

please go on tell me where you guys "exist" because for most of you clowns unless you have warrior forum's coat tails to ride you are DEAD. IN. THE. WATER.

Originally Posted by linkbuildr

Us - at least $2500/month starting budget

Distilled - I'd say at least a couple grand a month budget wise as well

Internet Marketing Ninjas - again, a few grand.

You want the real deal you're going to need a proper budget and a site that isn't horrible.

This is an absolute JEWEL. Where do you get these insane numbers from when you don't know what the purpose of his site is LOL

man you people are starving for "business" LOL.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810129].message }}

yukon Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

man you people are starving for "business" LOL.

It beats selling tube socks out of the back of a VW on an interstate on ramp.
- Thanks
- 2 replies
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810275].message }}
- Mike Anthony 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  It beats selling tube socks out of the back of a VW on an interstate on ramp.
  
  all these years and now we finally know Yukon's hobby niche - that and Al Sharpton Bobbleheads
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810301].message }}
- TZ 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by yukon
  
  It beats selling tube socks out of the back of a VW on an interstate on ramp.
  
  Priceless!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  $php_coding = "consistent cash";
  
  echo ("Give me" . " " . $php_coding . "!");
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812584].message }}

John Romaine

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

every question you asked is for you LOL. you didnt even ask what business he is in.

The questions I asked, I did so for a reason. Why bother ranking, or wasting time trying to rank if he cant answer those fundamental questions. As it stands he intends on doing so for $100 per month, so I just saved myself - and him - a lot of potentially wasted time.

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

The site has a in your sig has a handful of backlinks with the majority being nofollow. Terrible backlink profile.

That's funny.

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

It looks like the majority of traffic to it comes from this forum. it's a good thing you post so much here.

The majority of my traffic comes from a multitude of sources, not just here. But then again, I'm actually out, interacting with business owners at networking events and meeting with clients - not posting here all day. The traffic that hits my site is a bonus.

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

please go on tell me where you guys "exist" because for most of you clowns unless you have warrior forum's coat tails to ride you are DEAD. IN. THE. WATER.

lol, you're funny.

How about you share with us your site, and the amazing results you've achieved?

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8811147].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

Originally Posted by John Romaine

lol, you're funny.

How about you share with us your site, and the amazing results you've achieved?

I have posted up traffic stats and aff. earnings on this forum before and the posts were deleted.

There is nothing "white hat" about link-building especially if you are paying someone to do it LOL.

Paying someone to build links=natural. LOL.

Again, "white-hat" is everyone online who isn't trying to game the system in some way or another.

My grandmother is "white hat." She has a gardening blog and doesn't know shit about the Internet LOL

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812281].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

There is nothing "white hat" about link-building especially if you are paying someone to do it LOL.

Paying someone to build links=natural. LOL.

There is no such definition of white hat. You are uninformed. If a SEO contacts a webmaster about an article and indicates that it might be something he wants to link to and the webmaster links to it thats whitehat link building.

Thats just one of many examples

As long as the webmaster links to a site because of the merits of the site or content "natural"does not mean squat.

Get over it. Imers who are always placing their own links always laugh and carry on in ignorance at others talking about white hat link building because they neither know what it is or how to do it . There is a big real world out there beyond Warrior forum that makes up MOST of the world and white hat link building is done every day in it

Not knowing what it is or how to do it dos not means it does not exist. It just means they are uninformed.

I have posted up traffic stats and aff. earnings on this forum before and the posts were deleted.

of course because they mean nothing and anyone with an image editor can create false ones.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812312].message }}

jinx1221 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

of course because they mean nothing and anyone with an image editor can create false ones.

Thats not true, every earnings screenshot is legit.. just check out my stats:

:p
- [ 1 ] Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

The Ultimate Private Network Management,
Visualization and Automation Tool
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812349].message }}
- hipeopo02 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by jinx1221
  
  Thats not true, every earnings screenshot is legit.. just check out my stats:
  
  :p
  
  The funny part is the screenshot I put up showed about $700 over the course of 2 months and people thought I faked it. The point I was proving at the time wasn't even about aff. earnings it was about ranking a keyword. Goes to show you what the benchmark is for earnings around here LMFAO.
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812366].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

There is no such definition of white hat. You are uninformed. If a SEO contacts a webmaster about an article and indicates that it might be something he wants to link to and the webmaster links to it thats whitehat link building.

What's in it for the webmaster who places the link at the SEO's request?

Why is the SEO doing this in the first place?

Why did the SEO person feel they needed to bring this site to the webmaster's attention?

^^^We have a salesman selling in the above model. The goal is profit for the SEO and profit for the guy who paid the SEO.

nothing about that "white hat" LOL

The only "white hat" guy in that whole scenario is the poor webmaster that doesn't realize he is about to link up to crap LOL.

NOW. If a webmaster contacts me and says: "nice site! I added you to my site." There...There is your "white hat link building". Getting links in your sleep from having a site people naturally flock to.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812353].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

What's in it for the webmaster who places the link at the SEO's request?

a story to write about, a heads up for his readers, news coverage, frienDship, a shared interest, support for another that supports their charity. the list goes on and on.

Why is the SEO doing this in the first place?

Why a SEO is doing something has nada to do with white hat. You've confused white hat with non promotion. common mistake but dead wrong.

Why did the SEO person feel they needed to bring this site to the webmaster's attention?

To promote it. Again you confuse non promotion with not being white hat. Even Google promotes their business. You can be promoting the junk out of something but not placing the links that come from it and its white hat.

We have a salesman selling in the above model. The goal is profit for the SEO and profit for the guy who paid the SEO.

There is nothing that states anywhere that white hat should not be done for money . Use your noggin. Google reps Speak AT MANY SEO conferences sponsored and run by SEO companies that run them. They are perfectly aware the SEOs get paid by companies to do SEO. You make ZERO sense.

nothing about that "white hat" LOL

ROFL

You are laughing because you are TOTALLY ignorant of what white hat is which makes your laughter so hilarious.

You are like the kid that falls on the ground and laughs his head off when his best friend tells him where babies really come from

"Thats not where babies come from.. LOL..... thats gross"

while the girls roll their eyes and think "what a dweeb"...LOL

NOW. If a webmaster contacts me and says: "nice site! I added you to my site." There...There is your "white hat link building". Getting links in your sleep from having a site people naturally flock to.

Dude your clueless. Using your own failed logic. how did the owner even see your site if it was not promoted in some way........

BOOOOM! goes your failed logic. White hat has nothing to do with nopromotion.

Face it. just like the OP you are TOTALLY clueless about what white hat is. Any link that come to a site regardless if promoted or not that is placed by the webmaster because they see merit in the site itself and/or content is white hat link building

Now go buy some mistletoe. Did you forget that this is the one time of the year you might get a kiss.

Miss your opportunity and you have no shot for another 365 days.

Thanks
2 replies

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812576].message }}

Sweersz 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Dude your clueless. Using your own failed logic. how did the owner even see your site if it was not promoted in some way........

You're*...
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812643].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

a story to write about, a heads up for his readers, news coverage, frienDship, a shared interest, support for another that supports their charity. the list goes on and on.

Nobody is in the business of SEO for any of those things LOL

"So what made you get into SEO?"

"I wanted make new friends." R U FKUCING KIDDING ME?

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

To promote it. Again you confuse non promotion with not being white hat. Even Google promotes their business. You can be promoting the junk out of something but not placing the links that come from it and its white hat.

Promotion? For what reason....to make friends? LOL

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

There is nothing that states anywhere that white hat should not be done for money . Use your noggin. Google reps Speak AT MANY SEO conferences sponsored and run by SEO companies that run them. They are perfectly aware the SEOs get paid by companies to do SEO. You make ZERO sense.

.

They are not going to stop people from trying to game their search engine and they know it. If they work WITH these people they can cut down on the headaches and maybe steer a few would be spammers in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Any link that is placed by the webmaster because they see merit in the site itself and/or content is white hat link building

Fixed it.

You base your argument that SEO is not motivated by money and the links are for the benefit of everyone. They aren't. Someone is going to spill link juice for someone else. Zero sum game.

SEO is about trying to rank sites, remember?

It can be viewed at as a hobby. Sure....BUT ITS NOT BECAUSE YOU MAKE BOAT LOADS OF CASH WITH IT.

As soon as you try to manipulate a link in some way or another onto someone elses site you are all done being white hat.

I think you need to make a "friend" with that miseltoe, Mike

Try some of that SEO white hat link building out and you should have all kinds of new friends before the year is up LMFAO.

You might even get laid LOL

BUT...

I think I got it now...

Black hat link building= To rank and make money.
White hat link building= To rank and make friends.

LMFAO

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812808].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

Nobody is in the business of SEO for any of those things LOL

"So what made you get into SEO?"

"I wanted make new friends." R U FKUCING KIDDING ME?
Promotion? For what reason....to make friends? LOL

Christmas stand up comedy! Take a bow

This is why we have age limits on the forums. Poor kid reads me say SEO is a business for which people get paid to promote sites and his juvenile response is to take it the exact opposite merely to make friends.

No teen Einstein look at the long list you were given but yeah I have got links based on friendships. You make friends in business all the time. you'll know when you grow up and run one. You'll know when you can do ANY white hat or more than clicking buttons on Senuke. Tell us how many of your sites got slapped? You'll say none and we'll know plenty. Black hat aint good for nothing but churn and burn and everyone here knows it. Its a grey and white hat world now.

Thing is the kid ranks for nothing of any competition. He doesn't know it but most of the regular members can smell out the ones with all tank and no juice

I think I got it now...

If that day comes it will be more eventful than Christmas

. The day you can read - a national Holiweek - I never said anywhere that SEO is not motivated by money. If we were at a club I'd ask for your ID and the bouncer would spin you out the door like Jazzy Jeff.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8813009].message }}

nik0 Banned 10 years ago

If you want to do whitehat link building with a budget of $100/month you have to organize it yourself.

It isn't that impossible:

- write some great content
- hire a part time VA on oDesk or Freelancer
- let the VA scrape tons of sites in your niche and let them send an e-mail based on a pre-made template that you supply them asking webmasters for a link to your site

or let the VA source other contact data like phone numbers or perhaps twitter/facebook profiles and let him contact them through their.

No idea how effective that will be but I guess it depends for a large part of how interesting the content is that you have to offer.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8813524].message }}

John Romaine

10 years ago

Wait a minute...

The site is currently making $1,200 a month, and you want to invest $100 per month?

I'll answer the other stuff in a moment, but seriously - what gives?

And seriously, what sort of quality do you expect for $100 a month?

I'm in the process of performing a disavow for a client here that was spending exactly that much each month and it almost ruined his site.

Thanks

Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809725].message }}

dreamtoreality

10 years ago

How many PM's have you received?

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809748].message }}

Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by dreamtoreality

How many PM's have you received?

27 of them...all of them bots.
- [ 1 ] Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809753].message }}

georgefuller

10 years ago

^agree with you John, before we are paying to get listed, now we are paying to get unlisted.. I feel you clients because I've been there also. google updates are really a slap in the face for most internet marketers and business owners.

-refer to the clients reviews and performance reports. you can ask some of your friends for referrals in terms of seo company.

Take note of these, Ranking a Penalized website is way different from Ranking a New Website. both have different approach.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8809760].message }}

ChristianSites

10 years ago

Hi Mike,

I focus on providing white-hat SEO that has (so far) never been hit by a Google penalty. For US $200/mo (~125 pounds/mo. I think), I would offer to manage your social media and 6 guest posts. Those aren't the only strategies I use, but that might give you an idea of what to expect from a white-hat SEO service. I do not, however, maintain my own SEO website; this is just a freelance side business I have. Therefore, you might find other white-hat companies with larger overheads to be much more expensive.

Cheers from across the pond,

Scott

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810000].message }}

Kevin Maguire

10 years ago

So this link spammer says to the other link spammer. This White-Hat stuff is great I can get paid even more for making less spam.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810349].message }}

DarioMontesdeOca

10 years ago

[DELETED]

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810399].message }}

Kevin Maguire

10 years ago

So this Blackhat says to the other Blackhat. Hey since I've started manually spinning articles and buying seeds from Iwriter instead of scraping. I'm now a Whitehat!!!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810681].message }}

yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Seriously, who cares about what hat you wear, common sense trumps hats.

Either your ranking pages or your not.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810689].message }}

danparks

10 years ago

Agree with what Mike, Kevin and yukon said above.

It's not that there isn't such a thing as white hat. I think it's more of a failure of people to understand what white hat is. The OP titled this thread to include the words "White Hat," but he also said this:

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

My goal is to rank 11 pages on my site as number 1 in SERPs for their keywords. The niche isn't super-competitive; each page will need no more than 40 decent backlinks to get into the top 3 search results.

Saying that you want a specific number of backlinks to achieve your goal isn't white hat. That's no where near natural. It's not black hat, but I'd call it gray hat. It's unnatural - you know you're exchanging money for a set of links from sources that post those links only because of money. I'm not criticizing that technique (it's all I do as far as SEO), I'm just saying it's not white hat.

I think when most people claim to being doing white SEO they're full of crap. I think when some people who are actually doing legitimate white hat stuff call it "white hat SEO" they should probably just be calling it "white hat marketing." From what I've seen people who do good "white hat" stuff aren't doing strictly SEO. SEO stands for "search engine optimization." These people are usually helping their clients get results through a variety of means, some of which have nothing to do with SEO. They're good at establishing direct traffic that has nothing to do with a Google search. There are people that have the knowledge, experience, contacts to help a site get direct traffic from social media, forums, PPC and such (I'm not one of them, but they're out there). Legitimate stuff, kind of standard advertising practices, etc.

It would probably be nice if we could get rid of the various "hats" phrases, as there's no agreed upon definitions. It would be better if people just stated how they want to go about getting traffic and conversions. "I want a bunch of high PR backlinks to my site," or "I want to rank even if you have to hack a hundred other sites to get me there," or "I would like a campaign that integrates some quality guest posts for SEO purposes along with some kind of social media push." That kind of thing.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810698].message }}

Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by danparks

I think when most people claim to being doing white SEO they're full of crap. .

That will change in 2014
- Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810735].message }}

danparks

10 years ago

Originally Posted by danparks

I think when most people claim to being doing white SEO they're full of crap

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

That will change in 2014

I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you didn't say it right.

You know what you're doing, you probably have some good ideas about the future of SEO - by way of your cryptic sig line

You might have some good ideas about the near-term future of white hat SEO and SEO in general. But, based on your experiences here on warrior forum, and what most people say and claim about white hat SEO, do you really think that what most other people claim about white hat SEO will change in the coming months? No matter what you or a few others do regarding SEO in the near future, I stand by my assertion that "I think when most people claim to being doing white SEO they're full of crap"

I don't think that will ever change.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810753].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by danparks

do you really think that what most other people claim about white hat SEO will change in the coming months? No matter what you or a few others do regarding SEO in the near future,

Dan one of the biggest problems with SEO is that there is no straightforward way to do white hat SEO. There is no clear cut strategy. Its hit or miss and smoke and mirrors. For example emailing webmasters is too hit or miss and inefficient. Build it and they will come is fairy tale most of the time Consequently since people can't point at one place and one effective technique and say this is white hat SEO they conclude that there is none or that its imaginary. You can see this is prime display when someone asks Cutts how to link build. His answers are vague or he goes off into an example of a tech company and how they got links like the whole world can emulate.

Once people can look at a technique or an application on the market and have a clear path to white hat SEO that ranks sites then YES I do think that people will be less likely to make up what white hat is as they go along.

IF people can point at a solid straightforward way that white hat is achieved and see what it looks like then things will change for many people. You'll be able to say - look at this - This is white hat and how its done and then see how it differs from grey and black.

Will it change here at WF? I don't know. Theres a certain mentality of Imers that will allow certain things to go on for years. However your first statement said most people not most people at WF. I am one of those that know that WF doesn't represent most of the people in SEO. In fact most people in SEO either do not know about WF or they have a VERY bad opinion of it.

Actually I had forgotten my sig (I've now turned it off in these replies) when I wrote that but yes that is something a few of us have been working through and excited to say we are almost there - and this from a grey hat guy!

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8810856].message }}

MikeyUK

10 years ago

Well, what an unpleasant thread this turned into. Not constructive or helpful in any way. In fact it's the polar opposite of what I'd hoped for. Destructive and abusive.

"LOL ROFL SPEND MORE" seems to be the general consensus. Understood.

The site in question here is only a few months' old and operates in a tiny, but lucrative, niche. I've already ranked several pages with only 5-10 decent links due to the high quality, relevant & unique content on the site. My point being: it won't take many links to rank the remaining pages. Hence the low budget. I envisaged spending no more than £750 GBP ($1226) in total for outsourcing this project which seemed reasonable given that it is appears to be around 30 hours' of work.

Thanks
3 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8811279].message }}

online only

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

Well, what an unpleasant thread this turned into. Not constructive or helpful in any way. In fact it's the polar opposite of what I'd hoped for. Destructive and abusive.

"LOL ROFL SPEND MORE" seems to be the general consensus. Understood.

The site in question here is only a few months' old and operates in a tiny, but lucrative, niche. I've already ranked several pages with only 5-10 decent links due to the high quality, relevant & unique content on the site. My point being: it won't take many links to rank the remaining pages. Hence the low budget. I envisaged spending no more than £750 GBP ($1226) in total for outsourcing this project which seemed reasonable given that it is appears to be around 30 hours' of work.

For $100, you will get 1 good looking, whitehat link per month. So, to get 40 backlinks (according to you), you will get your site ranked within 40 years.
GL BRO!

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8811452].message }}

MikeyUK 10 years ago

I wonder if there is anyone here with something positive or helpful to add to the thread?

I explained above that my budget is flexible. I'm more than willing to revise my plans for this project if necessary.

Putting budget to one side for a moment, can anyone recommend a trustworthy & good quality link-building service?
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8811479].message }}

John Romaine 10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

I've already ranked several pages with only 5-10 decent links due to the high quality, relevant & unique content on the site.

Well if that's working for you Mike, keep doing it and forget about hiring.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature

BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8811704].message }}
- Mike Anthony 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by John Romaine
  
  Well if that's working for you Mike, keep doing it and forget about hiring.
  
  and forget about asking for whitehat.
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812134].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

My point being: it won't take many links to rank the remaining pages. Hence the low budget. I envisaged spending no more than £750 GBP ($1226) in total for outsourcing this project which seemed reasonable given that it is appears to be around 30 hours' of work.

Sorry mike. it is what it is. You got out of this thread what you intended to put in. Next to nothing. You wanted someone to point you to a company that would charge you 100 pounds and now you are upset because no one did.

Frankly I wouldn't touch your site for even ten times more because the worse customers are the one that sit down in a chair don't understand what they are asking for but still set a price. I mean look at it. There you are setting how many hours work it is to get 30 white hat links and you don't even have a clue on how white hat links are got (and that just ignores the obvious other thing you left out - the strength of the links).

The second worse customers are those that arm chair quarterback and tell SEOs how much links = this or that rank. The third worse are the ones that think SEO is done deal and will rank a site ongoing after a fixed number of links.

You've got all three going on.

Is it unpleasant to hear our response to you? Yes? Now think for a moment at how greatly pleased we were when you told us what our work wasn't worth more than. I tell you what? I will create a site in your niche and handle the SEO white hat style and I'll pay you 100 pounds a month to handle the "big picture" you mentioned in the OP?

You game?

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812121].message }}

Rendition

10 years ago

Guys he just wants advice given his current budget... stop bein know it all jerks. You can say hes being unrealistic without rubbing off in such a hostile way. Cmon youre marketers... you should know better.

Another edit: People sometimes come here to learn. Just because they might be naive or uninformed gives you no right to be so harsh and rude. You may say its reality so deal with it, but your approach toward educating can be more sensitive. Its quite sad. Just because you may make money and you may have tons of posts/rep on this forum doesnt give you the right to scare people off. Its the holidays have a bit more empathy and understanding toward ppl looking for advice. They dont want to underpay you or distort reality. They want to learn in order to get a better handle on budget requirements etc. The tone in this thread reflects a trend in attitude on this forum that is quite sad.

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812136].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rendition

Guys he just wants advice given his current budget... stop bein know it all jerks. You can say hes being unrealistic without rubbing off in such a hostile way. Cmon youre marketers... you should know better.

He's been given plenty of advice but now he is taking issue with it as you are because you don't like the advice - raise the budget. All we have are new people upset that older members have told them some home truths they don't want to hear.

BTW I missed where you helped him out with any advice. What marketers has to do with anything I have no idea. Might I ask where I can get 10 white hat PR4 links at fiverr? I mean you are all marketers right? You should know better than to tell me thats not going to work :rolleyes:.

Guys he just wants advice given his current budget

Nope won't work. He already has indicated he makes more than that with the site and that its lucrative. He is just cheaping it out not constrained by a budget.

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812159].message }}

MikeyUK

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rendition

Guys he just wants advice given his current budget... stop bein know it all jerks. You can say hes being unrealistic without rubbing off in such a hostile way. Cmon youre marketers... you should know better.

Another edit: People sometimes come here to learn. Just because they might be naive or uninformed gives you no right to be so harsh and rude. You may say its reality so deal with it, but your approach toward educating can be more sensitive. Its quite sad. Just because you may make money and you may have tons of posts/rep on this forum doesnt give you the right to scare people off. Its the holidays have a bit more empathy and understanding toward ppl looking for advice. They dont want to underpay you or distort reality. They want to learn in order to get a better handle on budget requirements etc. The tone in this thread reflects a trend in attitude on this forum that is quite sad.

Thanks Rendition, I appreciate your response. You took the words out of my head and articulated them perfectly. I never intended to 'cheapen' anyone's job or expertise and I came here to do one thing: Learn.

I'm surprised at the hostility tbh, but maybe I shouldn't be as I've read several times that this place has a bad rep, especially for newbies.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8814648].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

and I came here to do one thing: Learn.

.

I dunno....I saw several people trying to tell you the price was too low and I still saw you trying to justify a low price. Thats not consistent with wanting to learn. We get this a lot. A newbie (you brought up the word) coming on here wanting to hear a particular answer and getting all upset because he didn't get the answer he wanted. People made a few quips and jokes. I made one about looking for a virgin wife in a brothel because lets face it this forum is not known for white hat. I really didn't see anything very pointed until you came back basically chiding everyones responses and trying to justify the price.

I mean go into any thread on any forum and drop a low price and people are going to respond with some bewilderment. Try going to the Copy writers forum and asking where you can get a great sales page for $10 or a web hosting forum and telling them you want hosting for 10 cents a month.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8814930].message }}

Ricardo Furtado

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I dunno....I saw several people trying to tell you the price was too low and I still saw you trying to justify a low price. Thats not consistent with wanting to learn. We get this a lot. A newbie (you brought up the word) coming on here wanting to hear a particular answer and getting all upset because he didn't get the answer he wanted. People made a few quips and jokes. I made one about looking for a virgin wife in a brothel because lets face it this forum is not known for white hat. I really didn't see anything very pointed until you came back basically chiding everyones responses and trying to justify the price.

I mean go into any thread on any forum and drop a low price and people are going to respond with some bewilderment. Try going to the Copy writers forum and asking where you can get a great sales page for $10 or a web hosting forum and telling them you want hosting for 10 cents a month.

How very well said. How very true indeed!

Thanks

Signature

Ricardo Furtado

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8814941].message }}

Rendition

10 years ago

I said what i needed to say. Im not going to banter with you.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812173].message }}

Mike Anthony

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Rendition

I said what i needed to say. Im not going to banter with you.

Translation - I have no meaningful advice to offer. I just want to lecture everyone else what their advice shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by Rendition

Another edit: People sometimes come here to learn. Just because they might be naive or uninformed gives you no right to be so harsh and rude. You may say its reality so deal with it, but your approach toward educating can be more sensitive. .

neither he nor you are attempting to learn anything at the moment. Instead you are arguing about what others should be teaching you for free. This sense of being owed is what is sad. Plus MikeyUK is still claiming his budget is reasonable and you are claiming that he should be given advice based on his unrealistic budget. I am fine with it. go ahead then and give him your advice.

This board has gone down hill month after month year after year because people want the advice to fall along their own lines based on their WSO SEO mentality and when they can't get that fantasy land world to work they either leave SEO forever or complain that someone should show them a way to make their fantasy into reality

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812181].message }}

Rendition

10 years ago

Lol wow you are on a high horse. Here is my advice for You UK... build your audience by directly engaging with them yourself, particularly through social outlets. If you only have a few hundred per month id either save it or invest it into content generation for your site. Do research on SEO and do as much as you can yourself regarding META keywords etc. Take your time and provide value to your site visitors. Also keep your head up and don let the egos get you down. I wouldnt invest several k per month in SEO until your own efforts and revenue justify it. Dont invest only 100 per month in links as they will be low quality and rank you poorly. Instead id use it for content for now. I actually agree with most here that whitehat isnt that low budget. I just disagree with their tone. Best of luck : )

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812201].message }}

Mike Anthony 10 years ago

OP wasn't asking about social, content or Meta tags :rolleyes: . He was asking about ranking and link building. Your advice just entirely skipped what it was he was asking advice on. Why? Becauase you know that the price he is maintaining is fair is actually ridiculous. You just object to many other member saying what you know to be true. Leave the modding to mods.
- Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812227].message }}

Sweersz

10 years ago

Google will smack you if they find out you're paying for links. Don't do it. It's sad and low.

Hear what Google has to say about link schemes:

The following are examples of link schemes which can negatively impact a site's ranking in search results:

Buying or selling links that pass PageRank. This includes exchanging money for links, or posts that contain links; exchanging goods or services for links; or sending someone a “free” product in exchange for them writing about it and including a link
Excessive link exchanges ("Link to me and I'll link to you") or partner pages exclusively for the sake of cross-linking
Large-scale article marketing or guest posting campaigns with keyword-rich anchor text links
Using automated programs or services to create links to your site

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812236].message }}

online only

10 years ago

hipeopo02

If editorial links that are placed by other webmasters are not whitehat then what IS?
"Just produce awesome content, wait & pray" times are history. There's no such thing that you simply write awesome piece of content and wait until someone links to it.

email outreach is whitehat SEO, period. SEO is not anymore only about "HIGH PR LINKS". It's about engagement, social, a lot of hussle. Of course you can get a bunch of high PR links from X provider, but will it help in long-term? Hell no..

All reputable SEO agencies do email outreaching, it's just the gameplan that has worked and will work. Those strategies obviously wont work for clickbank and MFA sites, but they work really well for REAL sites and REAL blogs that Google want to see at the top of their search results.

I don't want to brag mate, but I have "micro niche sites" (no, not clickbank sites) that make more than 30k a month. Do you want to know how I got the links? I sent out more than 3000 personalized emails per site. Do you want to know if they stick at the top 3 for highly competitive keywords for YEARS? Yes, they do.

WTF, are you trying to say here

? How the hell should we get REAL links if not using emails and outreaching? Fiverr perhaps?

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8812941].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

Originally Posted by online only

I don't want to brag mate, but I have "micro niche sites" (no, not clickbank sites) that make more than 30k a month. Do you want to know how I got the links? I sent out more than 3000 personalized emails per site. Do you want to know if they stick at the top 3 for highly competitive keywords for YEARS? Yes, they do.

WTF, are you trying to say here ? How the hell should we get REAL links if not using emails and outreaching? Fiverr perhaps?

3000 Personalized emails per site? how the hell is that not spam? or do you mean an email per site that totaled 3K?
Did you give a link in return to each webmaster who gave you a link? I bet you didn't hahaha. Of course you want to keep OBL down and spare your link juice. I would love to read one of those emails hahah.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

You'll know when you can do ANY white hat or more than clicking buttons on Senuke. Tell us how many of your sites got slapped? You'll say none and we'll know plenty. Black hat aint good for nothing but churn and burn and everyone here knows it. Its a grey and white hat world now.

.

enough words:

Check this dofollow PR5 link out: Mike Anthony is a clown

now that was a freebie

"senuke" lol STOP associating stupid half ass outdated software tools with everything that is NOT white hat.

you people have no idea no how to look for sites with holes for them. You don't even know what a "hole" in a site looks like...where all that PR juice can just fall in your lap.

White hat linkbuilding.....LOL

go figure out what you guys really want to do already, would ya? BE TELEMARKETERS LOL.

GO GET SOME ******* LINKS THEN TALK TO ME.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8814451].message }}

Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

enough words:

Check this dofollow PR5 link out: Mike Anthony is a clown

now that was a freebie

You can admit it. We know already...thats the best link you have EVER got.

What you going to do? Kids will be kids. Missed the mistletoe right? Theres always next year.
- Thanks
- 1 reply
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8814901].message }}
- hipeopo02 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  You can admit it. We know already...thats the best link you have EVER got.
  
  PR wise? Yes, 5 is the highest I have ever got.
  
  but what is one link going to do for you unless it's a 9 or a 10? hahah....
  
  freebies are freebies for a reason hahaha....
  
  Now, if you want about 30 or 40 of those? Sorry, I'm going to have to charge you for my "white hat linkbuilding services" LOL
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816160].message }}
  
  Mike Anthony 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by hipeopo02
  
  PR wise? Yes, 5 is the highest I have ever got.
  
  but what is one link going to do for you unless it's a 9 or a 10? hahah...
  
  .Kid quit while you can. You are beginning to show your ignorance of the subject even more.
  
  PR6 is 5-7 times stronger that a PR5
  PR7 is 25+ more powerful than a PR5
  
  so what is a higher link going to do for you? ROFL
  
  and who said because you actually know how to get a PR6 and up link its the only one? This aint like heads. You can have more than one.
  
  By the way because chopapp has a PR5 home page does not mean you got a PR5 link. Angela backlinks called and they want their PR link definition back.
  
  The comedy just keeps coming. give us Moah!
  
  Now, if you want about 30 or 40 of those? Sorry,
  
  Say no more.
  
  We know you won't be able to fill any order greater than an NA submitted by Senuke.
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816281].message }}
  
  hipeopo02 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony
  
  We know you won't be able to fill any order greater than an NA submitted by Senuke.
  
  I don't "fill orders." I touch on this SEO crap a little and it has some benefits but they are nothing compared to being blackhat. If you knew how to truly make money online you wouldnt waste time with "filling orders" either
  
  haahaa I know you quickly jumped all over that chopapp link with your garbage tech niche sites. I would tell you to look on how that site is built before you talk about the "homepage" so you can better aquaint yourself with why you will be getting a PR5 dofollow from that site in the future but that would be a waste of time because you don't know anything about code.
  
  Ok, Mike, your turn. Throw up a PR6 dofollow that you can just copy paste your goofy ass onto. The way you talk you should have links galore and one link is nothing
  
  Also what happened to your old world of oppurtunities? Did it get crushed in the last G update or did warrior forum kick that crap off? LOL thats what you get when your websites completely depend on.....another website LOL. :p
  
  You're a riot as always
  
  Thanks
  
  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816389].message }}

yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

Check this dofollow PR5 link out: hxxp://chopapp.com/#atgbfvod

Not sure If your serious?

That's not a backlink, there's not even a trace of a link in the source code.

The hash tag isn't doing anything other than forcing the page to jump to the top of the browser, you can do that with any site/page, doesn't mean it's a backlink.

I see the CSS display: none; but still no link. Even the index page cache is blank, which as you can see proves the hash tag isn't doing anything (hash URL shows index page cache (blank page)).

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816490].message }}

hipeopo02

10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Not sure If your serious?

That's not a backlink, there's not even a trace of a link in the source code.

The hash tag isn't doing anything other than forcing the page to jump to the top of the browser, you can do that with any site/page, doesn't mean it's a backlink.

I see the CSS display: none; but still no link. Even the index page cache is blank, which as you can see proves the hash tag isn't doing anything (hash URL shows index page cache (blank page)).

yawn...check back in a week or two.

go learn javascript in the meantime.

you won't "see" anything looking through code with your browser internet options crap lol.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816669].message }}

yukon

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by hipeopo02

yawn...check back in a week or two.

go learn javascript in the meantime.

you won't "see" anything looking through code with your browser internet options crap lol.

Lol, so it's a javascript link that doesn't show in the source code?

I use javascript for sculpting links, links I don't want Google to find/follow.

[edit]
I wasn't trying to be a smart azz, I was simply pointing out that's not a link.

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816701].message }}

Mike Anthony 10 years ago

Originally Posted by yukon

Not sure If your serious?

ROFl. Oh he's serious alright. High as a kite serious.

He''l be posting crap until the Christmas school break is over too
- Thanks
Signature
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8816683].message }}

squadron

10 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeyUK

Hi guys, does anyone know of a trustworthy white hat link-building company? ...

It is possible to jump the obvious oxymornon of "whitehat link building" if you break up the hats into parts of the puzzle.

1. Does anyone know people who can research and write printed "magazine quality" articles on a variety of subjects?

2. Does anyone know people who can design graphics and enhance images to suit "magazine quality" articles on a variety of subjects?

3. Does anyone know people who can identify and approach on a payment per placement basis, web sites with good traffic in specific markets and locations who will accept paid for or free content?

Thanks

Signature

2020 - Another Year of Bitcoin

Wordpress Help

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8815671].message }}

Does anyone know a trustworthy white hat link-building company?

Trending Topics

Some interesting stats about brand comms

Fixing a massive traffic drop after rebranding

Meta AI now has Google Search results

Looking at the average screen time and socmed usage

What's the Best IM-Related Skill to Learn Today That Can Help in the Future?