Wikipedia - why its pages get ranked so high? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

15 years ago

I'd say you may be undervaluing the absolutely massive TrustRank that Google assigns to Wikipedia, especially in combination with the fact that Wikipedia pages are shining models of page title to keyword relevancy.

Add in the high PR, tons of backlinks domain-wide, and a solid internal linking structure, and you've pretty much got guaranteed top 3 if the keyword is in the page title.

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ikuret75

15 years ago

Hi Chris,
Sure, I think I maybe undervalueing the TrustRank.

But another reason I asked this is....I didn't write this because I thought it would be too long for the post....but there is a online helth-food company in Japan which uses the same technique.

They devided what they sell (other companies pruducts) into many categories. For example, if they sell company A's pruduct, they hyper linked "company A" with anchor text and it was linked to the page where they put all the company A's products. So whenever companyA's product comes up, it is hyperlinked and there are a lot of them in the site.

When we search "companyA"( it is actually one of the biggest companies in Japan) thier page comes up, not 1st, but right after Wikipedia page for the company.
So, The company's official site > Wikipedia > the helth food store's page

The site's page rank is 5, so not that high Trust rank, however, they make tons of money...and that page only has intenal backlinks except a couple.

Thanks
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Saidar 15 years ago

Wikipedia is a perfect case to study SEO, the main reason why they rank so high is internal linking structure. They have thousands of pages linking to each other internally. Impossible to beat that, except if you have a hundred thousand pages linking t a single page on your website
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ikuret75

15 years ago

Thanks Saidar.
This internal linking system is what I was wondering about actually.

There are a lot of blog sites which have thousnds of pages and have a footer link or sidebar link to the home page on each page with anchor text of the home page keyword. But these sites don't necesarily come up on top.

Why is that?

I heard the theory(hypothesis) about this that says if is was not footer links, and the links were put within context, it actually would help a lot.

Do you guys agree?

Anyway, I was thinking, if the internal links help this much, then it does not make so much sense to say "getting links from the same domain would not help" or "getting links from the same ip would not help so much so you gotta have links from multiple C-class ips."

When even the internal link helps a lot, why worry about these things?

My idea is, it does not matter which ips, or domains the links are coming from, and it is more about the context where the links were placed that Google put importance a lot these days...

Do you agree about this?

Thanks.

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Red_Virus

15 years ago

Human edited content with a lot of moderation, amazing authority and backlinks & has around 21,700,000 pages indexed on Google.

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ikuret75

15 years ago

So, if a site has that authority, if an owner of the site wants his/her page on top of Serps with a new keyword, all he/she needs to do is to make a page and put some interlinks with ancortext?...Maybe it is the case but there must be something else....or not.

But if it is the case, it contradicts the theory that you need backlinks from different domains and ips etc etc.... Does it ONLY apply to low PR sites and if you have a high PR site, then you don't need to get external backlinks?

I'm not talking about a Wikipedia page which has 100,000 internal backlinks, but a Wikipedia page with only 300 or so intenrnal backlinks beating a site with external backlinks more than 16,000. (This is a real example)

Thanks

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James Spinosa

15 years ago

Wikipedia has the most total PR out of any source on the internet, this is a result of the massive amount of sites that link to them, their beautiful internal linking structure, perfect keyword densities, and the fact that many times people want a wikipedia page when they google something.

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ikuret75

15 years ago

Originally Posted by James Spinosa

Wikipedia has the most total PR out of any source on the internet, this is a result of the massive amount of sites that link to them, their beautiful internal linking structure, perfect keyword densities, and the fact that many times people want a wikipedia page when they google something.

Their structure is beutiful, keyword density is not bad, yeah, I agree.

My question is "Is it because of the site structure (internal linking) or high site trust rank that makes a SUB PAGE of wikipedia gets ranked high EVEN WHEN they don't have any external links.

If this is mostly because of PR, then anyone who has a high PR site has an advantage whenever he/she wants a new page ranked high on any keyword. I don't thnk it's fair but...I know, ah well.

If it is mostly because of the site structure, then maybe we should re-think about the importance of internal linking structure.

I know it is probably both important, but I found some pages with low PR ranked high on Google and these pages had the similar site structure as Wikipedia, so I thought it was something I should think about.

Thanks
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James Spinosa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ikuret75

Their structure is beutiful, keyword density is not bad, yeah, I agree.

My question is "Is it because of the site structure (internal linking) or high site trust rank that makes a SUB PAGE of wikipedia gets ranked high EVEN WHEN they don't have any external links.

~~~~If this is mostly because of PR, then anyone who has a high PR site has an advantage whenever he/she wants a new page ranked high on any keyword. I don't thnk it's fair but...I know, ah well.~~~~

**If it is mostly because of the site structure, then maybe we should re-think about the importance of internal linking structure.

I know it is probably both important, but I found some pages with low PR ranked high on Google and these pages had the similar site structure as Wikipedia, so I thought it was something I should think about.

~Well it is a fact that somebody with a high PR site will automatically have a leg up on somebody that does not when they want to make their next web page or web site. It is fair, because if you put in the work to build a lot of backlinks you wouldn't want joe smith spammer to have the same credibility as you.

**Internal linking structure is absolutely huge, I care more about that then getting backlinks to my site as a whole. I know that I will eventually get people to link to my sites, but the internal links are fully under my control and I work to make everything as connected as possible.

In the case of Wikipedia, trust rank has the most to do with it, but their linking structure is what allowed their original expansion.

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Saidar

15 years ago

Originally Posted by James Spinosa

~Well it is a fact that somebody with a high PR site will automatically have a leg up on somebody that does not when they want to make their next web page or web site. It is fair, because if you put in the work to build a lot of backlinks you wouldn't want joe smith spammer to have the same credibility as you.

**Internal linking structure is absolutely huge, I care more about that then getting backlinks to my site as a whole. I know that I will eventually get people to link to my sites, but the internal links are fully under my control and I work to make everything as connected as possible.

In the case of Wikipedia, trust rank has the most to do with it, but their linking structure is what allowed their original expansion.

Yes Now you are thinking on the right path... Links are all about the context that they are located in. That's why internal links contained inside your body of your article, will outweigh any other link on the internet. Google knows that sidebar links are only sidebar links, and will not give too much weight too them.

The key to online success is in context, in body links to your site. Doesn't matter if it's from another site or your own site. Wiki is a good example of this. That's why it always blows my mind why people even bother with social bookmarking and all that crap. Do they think google is bloody stupid?? The chance that ONE good internal in context inbody link will outweigh a thousand social bookmarking links is very good.

Lesson? Stop building links, and start writing new content for your site, and do what wikipedia does with their linking structure.

You can see my brand new site here: Renewable Energy - Renergy Pagerank raised to 3 just after two months, and I have about 10 external links. The rest is inbody incontext linking. That is the way to success.

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chrisaplin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by James Spinosa

Wikipedia has the most total PR out of any source on the internet, this is a result of the massive amount of sites that link to them, their beautiful internal linking structure, perfect keyword densities, and the fact that many times people want a wikipedia page when they google something.

I think now that has to be the most important part.

The fact that wikipedia answers your exact query in Google. Why wouldn't you want wikipedia ranked high?

Thanks

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dburk

15 years ago

Hi ikuret75,

For several years now, experts have been telling folks that PR has little impact on your SERP ranking, alas it seems to fall on deaf ears.

It's not the PR that get's you ranked, it's all about one thing: RELEVANCE.

It doesn't matter what your PR is, if someone beats you on relevance they win. It doesn't matter how much TrustRank, or Authority you have, if someone beats you on relevance they win. It's always relevance above all other factors.

Only when your web page has equal relevance with another, does Authority or TrustRank comes into play. It's only when relevance and authority are both equal that PR plays a role.

Wikipedia does a perfect job of establishing relevance, therefore they often outrank other pages, even when they have no external backlinks. Both internal and external link structure plays a role along with on-page factors. Just plain ole' SEO basics is all it takes when you don't have a lot of competent competitors.