`Build a Private Blog Network WSOs` PBN courses and WSO`s are all over is this a bad sign ?

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Hi,

I cannot belive the amount of build a private blog network courses, WSO`s guides and case studys are flying about at the moment surely this is a bad sign what do you guys think ?
#`build #bad #blog #courses #network #pbn #private #sign #wso`s #wsos`
  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    If you are worried about Google cracking down on them... too late. They are already. It's much harder for them to track down the truly private ones, but they are trying.

    The public ones, as in anyone selling a service using their own network to the masses, well... if anyone is using one of those, I hope they are not doing it with a site they actually care about. Probably only a matter of time.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimkirk1943
    No I`m not worried about google tracking down blog networks, Due to my lack of the skills and knowledge that the seo guys like you have Mike my question might be stupid but if I was google I`d be wanting to stop the positive effects these expired domains have because they certainly do work and think of a way to de-index the domain as soon as it drops/Expires
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by jimkirk1943 View Post

      No I`m not worried about google tracking down blog networks, Due to my lack of the skills and knowledge that the seo guys like you have Mike my question might be stupid but if I was google I`d be wanting to stop the positive effects these expired domains have because they certainly do work and think of a way to de-index the domain as soon as it drops/Expires
      I do not think we will ever see them do that. There are real legitimate reasons for domains being dropped and picked up by someone else.

      I think they will combat the issue from other ways:
      • They've already gone after SEO hosts. They will continue to do that.
      • Monitor outbound link patterns. For example, if 5 sites all link to the same 8 other sites, that could be a flag.
      • Monitor blog style sites where full posts on are on the homepage.
      • Watch platforms being used. For example, if a site has 95% of its links coming from Wordpress sites, trigger a review.


      There is a ton of stuff like that which they can do to uncover networks.

      But I do agree with you. I wish there were a lot fewer of these courses being sold. Actually, I wish none were being sold.
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      • Profile picture of the author jimkirk1943
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        • They've already gone after SEO hosts. They will continue to do that.
        • Monitor outbound link patterns. For example, if 5 sites all link to the same 8 other sites, that could be a flag.
        • Monitor blog style sites where full posts on are on the homepage.
        • Watch platforms being used. For example, if a site has 95% of its links coming from Wordpress sites, trigger a review.
        That also makes a alot of sense thank you
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by jimkirk1943 View Post

      No I`m not worried about google tracking down blog networks, Due to my lack of the skills and knowledge that the seo guys like you have Mike my question might be stupid but if I was google I`d be wanting to stop the positive effects these expired domains have because they certainly do work and think of a way to de-index the domain as soon as it drops/Expires
      I don't have a lot of time this morning (and due to the sillness I see in this forum - not referring to this thread - I won;t be spending as much time here in 2104). However I think you are correct. Google has gone after everything marketers use and its not rational to think they will not touch this over the next few years.

      As has been pointed out I don't think this will be a measure that affects a domain expiring. It can however be applied to sites that go through auctions and are bought or bid on there. I don't buy the if they have not done it yet they won't argument. That even failed with negative SEO being impossible arguments.

      Heres the thing. I think Register Compass has no more than two or three programmers (frankly I know of only the owner but just in case).They have been able to track almost all domains that go through Godaddy,Namejet and Snap names. Google could (and might already) have such capabilities within a day.

      Think about it What if register compass had a database stretching back four years. That database would have almost every domain in every network bought. What if you sent a google bot to crawl just through those sites looking for patterns of link building in them

      Not a freaking domain private or public would be safe. Now what if Google says forget that. lets do somethng else. Lets make every domain that goes through these auctions unable to pass pagerank for a year or two (oh they can rank but they can't make any other site rank)

      Game over. Death knell to the present aftermarket.

      Point being they have plenty options how to go about it and since they have gone after every single thing marketers on forums talk about and use its unreasonable to think this won't be on their agenda at some point
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      • Profile picture of the author PerformanceMan
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I don't have a lot of time this morning (and due to the sillness I see in this forum - not referring to this thread - I won;t be spending as much time here in 2104). However I think you are correct. Google has gone after everything marketers use and its not rational to think they will not touch this over the next few years.

        As has been pointed out I don't think this will be a measure that affects a domain expiring. It can however be applied to sites that go through auctions and are bought or bid on there. I don't buy the if they have not done it yet they won't argument. That even failed with negative SEO being impossible arguments.

        Heres the thing. I think Register Compass has no more than two or three programmers (frankly I know of only the owner but just in case).They have been able to track almost all domains that go through Godaddy,Namejet and Snap names. Google could (and might already) have such capabilities within a day.

        Think about it What if register compass had a database stretching back four years. That database would have almost every domain in every network bought. What if you sent a google bot to crawl just through those sites looking for patterns of link building in them

        Not a freaking domain private or public would be safe. Now what if Google says forget that. lets do somethng else. Lets make every domain that goes through these auctions unable to pass pagerank for a year or two (oh they can rank but they can't make any other site rank)

        Game over. Death knell to the present aftermarket.

        Point being they have plenty options how to go about it and since they have gone after every single thing marketers on forums talk about and use its unreasonable to think this won't be on their agenda at some point
        It Matt Cutts hadn't already thought of this (unlikely) then you just gave him an idea for an extra project. So now it's game over either way
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      • Profile picture of the author timpears
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        I don't have a lot of time this morning (and due to the sillness I see in this forum - not referring to this thread - I won;t be spending as much time here in 2104). However I think you are correct. Google has gone after everything marketers use and its not rational to think they will not touch this over the next few years.
        Well I will miss your input here Mike. I like to read your sound postss to ground us and point us in the right direction. I hope you will reconsider this thought and share your knowledge with us.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

          I vote to kill all talk of PBNs and begin a radio silence...
          lol...unfortunately even if we did there are threads every week on it. cats out the bag :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by timpears View Post

          Well I will miss your input here Mike. I like to read your sound postss to ground us and point us in the right direction. I hope you will reconsider this thought and share your knowledge with us.
          I should still be around. I just have some huge projects that will be taking up my time. I'll be working with a web start up releasing a new process for getting white hat links that if successful will keep me pretty busy. I will still drop in from time to time.

          Hope all is well with you. Donated to your cause and hope others have or will too. Stay healthy.
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  • Profile picture of the author nik0
    Banned
    It's not that easy as people who accidentally forget to renew their domains can become victim of that.

    However Google could of course do it anyway as it's their search engine and let people file for reindexing in webmasters if they can proof they are the previous owner.

    They could also just ignore the current back link profile pointing to that expired/dropped domain instead of deindex it as there are heaps of people buying domains that had a previous penalty. How fair is that.

    So yeah they could do all this, why they don't is a mystery to me, it's possible cause they already have the disavow tool working.

    Solution would be to source for idle websites that haven't expired yet and buy those complete sites from the owners. Nothing that Google can do about that. I already know of certain SEO companies that do just that, I even sold a website once to such person.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimkirk1943
      Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

      It's not that easy as people who accidentally forget to renew their domains can become victim of that.

      However Google could of course do it anyway as it's their search engine and let people file for reindexing in webmasters if they can proof they are the previous owner.

      They could also just ignore the current back link profile pointing to that expired/dropped domain instead of deindex it as there are heaps of people buying domains that had a previous penalty. How fair is that.

      So yeah they could do all this, why they don't is a mystery to me, it's possible cause they already have the disavow tool working.

      Solution would be to source for idle websites that haven't expired yet and buy those complete sites from the owners. Nothing that Google can do about that. I already know of certain SEO companies that do just that, I even sold a website once to such person.
      Thank you Niko yes the buying complete sites would be a good way round it, But it must be quite worring to you as it is me as I use PBN`s for ranking sites and of course your own SEO business is so vulnerable to google just devalueing the link profile or just deindex the domain and make you prove you where the owner ?

      And my inbox is full of PBN courses this month its not a good feeling is it or doesnt it bother you ?
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      • Profile picture of the author nik0
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        Originally Posted by jimkirk1943 View Post

        Thank you Niko yes the buying complete sites would be a good way round it, But it must be quite worring to you as it is me as I use PBN`s for ranking sites and of course your own SEO business is so vulnerable to google just devalueing the link profile or just deindex the domain and make you prove you where the owner ?

        And my inbox is full of PBN courses this month its not a good feeling is it or doesnt it bother you ?
        If they wanted to do this they did it long ago so I don't sleep bad cause of it.

        The warrior forum is quite large but when you compare it to all website owners that ever heard of it then probably less then 1% is aware of it.

        Researching a domain, buying it, setting it up is a lot of work so most who buy such course don't even do anything with it or they quit after they end up with a few terrible low quality domains that hardly do a thing for their rankings. So don't be scared the market will be flooded.

        I know cause quite regularly I get contacted by clients who kind of maxed out on my network and that burned their selves a few times buying expired domains. Many others buy a domain for way too much like $200 for a PR3 and don't see huge ranking benefits and spend their money differently.

        Cause simple as it is, only one PR3 link, no matter how few OBL's, is not going to give HUGE ranking benefits while they are still used to amazing results after buying some link package for $200,-, whether pre-penguin spam or post-penguin high PR links. Obvious long term they're better of with the PR3 domain, but most people aren't interested to wait that long and are not prepared to spend a few thousand dollar at once.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    They ever thought about just removing the PR signals altogether and preventing us from seeing that data?
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
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      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      They ever thought about just removing the PR signals altogether and preventing us from seeing that data?
      Matt Cuts said not so long ago that he would be surprised if pagerank got updated before 2014. Turned out they updated it last December anyway but that was after 10 months silence.

      I don't think we really need PR, unless stats from Moz, Majestic, Ahrefs etc use PR as one of their variables to come up with metrics like MozRank, TrustFlow, DA etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author syncon
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Matt Cuts said not so long ago that he would be surprised if pagerank got updated before 2014. Turned out they updated it last December anyway but that was after 10 months silence.

        I don't think we really need PR, unless stats from Moz, Majestic, Ahrefs etc use PR as one of their variables to come up with metrics like MozRank, TrustFlow, DA etc.
        99.9% of what comes out of his mouth is to gauge the reactions people take afterwards...not sure why people still follow him.
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Shaw
    There is a big difference between google going after blog networks that sell links and you owning a niche related one. But it will get squished either way soon.

    If I can tell the difference at a glance between a website that loves the subject or is just marketing I am very sure G can.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    I wouldn't sweat over a bunch of IM'ers trying the usual Problem-Hyped Solution marketing.

    They troll these thread looking for ideas all day long.

    The only problem they have is that they have zero experience in setting up networks. And they certainly don't get the full picture from anyone here either. All they will be able to teach is.
    1. Buy a domain
    2. Put it on SEO hosting
    3. Install a CMS
    4. Put articles on it
    5. And build links to your site

    Not exactly groundbreaking, and not exactly rocket science either.

    They then leave the entire set-up down to you the buyer, who also has zero experience in setting up networks. All they will do is.
    1. Buy a useless domain
    2. Put it on SEO hosting
    3. Install Wordpress on it
    4. Put some spun articles on it
    5. And build links to their site

    The end result will be..

    A bunch of shitty sites, trying to rank another shitty site....Who needs footprints?

    A "Real" PBN is not a poor mans game, and you won't find guides on how to build one in a $27 dimesale WSO.

    I think it was Frank Kern who said something like this once, and it rings true. Forgive me Frank if I don't get the exact quote.

    "When a method goes public, be glad you stopped doing it that way a year ago."
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      Buy a useless domain
      1. Put it on SEO hosting
      2. Install Wordpress on it
      3. Put some spun articles on it
      4. And build links to their site

      A "Real" PBN is not a poor mans game, and you won't find guides on how to build one in a $27 dimesale WSO.
      Pretty much this. No talk of how to set up the sties , seldom covers anything but Godaddy (so that the prices just soared over there), maybe about a paragraph or two on faked Domains with no training on how to pick the domains and analyze the links and where they are located.

      I was told from time to time by a few nits that I ripped off people with my course which sold for $97 before it was retired (to be included in another package later when I get around to it) but I have yet to hear any of my people get their networks deindexed and when they forward domains they buy afterwards for me to look at they are pretty good. I never would have gone for the $27 market. If you are talking about building a network and think over $50 is too much to pay to know how to do it right then you are already off to a poor start.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    I vote to kill all talk of PBNs and begin a radio silence...
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Doubtful Google will ever touch real PBNs that involve common sense & same niche sites. Googles main concern with the SERPs is relevancy.
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    • Profile picture of the author nik0
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      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Doubtful Google will ever touch real PBNs that involve common sense & same niche sites. Googles main concern with the SERPs is relevancy.
      Like Mike said, if they cancel domains that pass auctions to pass on link juice then it won't make any difference whether it's relevantly themed or not. Google is not going to sit there finding the needles in the haystack. They just don't want people to buy links, nothing more then that to it.

      Link selling won't die though as there are other ways, for example:

      - buying aged domains and juicing them up with links from deleted web2.0 blogs and such that have pagerank
      - buying complete websites with PR
      - broken link building
      - throwing in some real white hat links through out reach (expert roundup stuff to increase incentive, glad I learned that one today).
      - relevant local directories or some other public stuff
      - perhaps what Mike is busy with now

      Sure all more time intensive or expensive but once figured out and semi-automated it should work out.

      I mean why wouldn't a cheap VA be able to do link outreach when he gets very specific instructions to source sites and emails that are mostly premade and a little bit personalized.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        - broken link building
        - throwing in some real white hat links through out reach (expert roundup stuff to increase incentive, glad I learned that one today).
        - relevant local directories or some other public stuff
        What the???? Is tht Nik talking white hat? LOL. We have had out major spats but props. Major props. Thinking outside the the box eh? So am I nowadays.

        - perhaps what Mike is busy with now
        Not exactly. To be honest I have never seen this twist before. Its actually a system by which great content gets links instead of just hoping they will. Still....might fall flat. really just depends on how many webmasters join in. Probably wouldn't be for most people at WF. Revolves around content thats good.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by nik0 View Post

        Like Mike said, if they cancel domains that pass auctions to pass on link juice then it won't make any difference whether it's relevantly themed or not. Google is not going to sit there finding the needles in the haystack. They just don't want people to buy links, nothing more then that to it.
        Must be dreaming of the your Amazon sites.

        Wake up or keep chasing algos with your off the wall random sites/links/domains/whatever...
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Must be dreaming of the your Amazon sites.

          Wake up or keep chasing algos with your off the wall random sites/links/domains/whatever...
          You know for a mod you do a heck of a lot of flame baiting. When did this discussion become about anyone's amazon sites? this discussions IS about building PBNs. Don't like it then find the door to this thread. PBNs are very much a part of the SEO discussions here just as your advice on crappy adsense sites are discussed on other threads.

          Seriously...... he made a perfectly legit counterpoint and you couldn't handle it so switched gears to attack him about Amazon site with no attempt to address the points he raised.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
    Google has made it clear that they are concerned with manipulating their serps not just relevancy. You could have a relevant site and great content/service/products. and be caught buying links from relevant sites you will still get slapped.

    The domain aftermarket of Godaddy, Namejet and snapnames represents the core places that people buy links by buying domains. If they move to alleviate that problem for their do not manipulate the serps problem they will not care a fig newtong about any relevant smartly built bought domain and the site built on it. They will get slapped for buying the same way.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

      Google has made it clear that they are concerned with manipulating their serps not just relevancy. You could have a relevant site and great content/service/products. and be caught buying links from relevant sites you will still get slapped.
      Now insert common sense & there's no problem.

      If it's one of these junk sites popular on WF PBNs, sure the site is an easy target.

      I don't lose any sleep at night, then again I have real sites, not junk domains like vote-for-us-2001.com with outbound links pointing at domains selling ipads from Amazon.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Now insert common sense & there's no problem.

        If it's one of these junk sites popular on WF PBNs, sure the site is an easy target.

        I don't lose any sleep at night, then again I have real sites, not junk domains like vote-for-us-2001.com with outbound links pointing at domains selling ipads from Amazon.
        As usual and not suprisingly you missed the point. A move against the aftermarket to shut down buying domains for links would not have anything to do with content or anything else. You bought it through expiring domains auctions - We take way its link benefit - end of story.

        You can try and twist it to whatever rant you wish but . the topic of this thread is building PBNs. I and many others sleep fine at night. many of us have niche real sites and others have made tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars per year that make nice comforting pillows of cash. The issues in the courses talked about in this thread however all involve buying them through expiring domain auctions and are courses on how to build your own. In regard to truly private networks you would not kno w what is popular. You are not seeing them because they are truly private.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
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          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          You bought it through expiring domains auctions
          Try again.

          Everyone doesn't hang out on domain auctions wading through junk.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by yukon View Post

            Try again.

            Everyone doesn't hang out on domain auctions wading through junk.
            Sigh.....what you quoted was a hypothetical quote of what Google would say to a domain buyer

            This thread is about courses about building networks. Since you are ignorant of the topic all courses that have to do with building networks teach people about buying domains at auctions. Thats why auctions are being discussed

            You are tryng hard to win a point but I guess you will have to do as you suggest


            ....try again.

            With some logic and on the topic next time.
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            • Profile picture of the author hipeopo02
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post


              This thread is about courses about building networks..
              HAHAHA No it's not!

              It's about a guy worried that the PBN hustle is over.....read the thread title again.

              Personally I don't see how....unless a bunch of chuckle heads on an IM forum start talking about PBNs and even have links to PBN services in their signature LOL.
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              A crappy product or service by people that disappear from the forum for a long period of time to make it look like they were working on something so when they come back you will want to click on their crappy product or service link

              CLICK HERE! LOL
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by hipeopo02 View Post

                HAHAHA.........unless a bunch of chuckle heads on an IM forum start talking about PBNs and even have links to PBN services in their signature LOL.

                The last time you started talking like that you totally made a fool of yourself. its still a chuckle to read.

                http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...-blahabah.html

                keep this up and you could be the first person from Warriors to go on Letterman for stupid SEO tricks of the week . Rock that house
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            • Profile picture of the author yukon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              Sigh.....what you quoted was a hypothetical quote of what Google would say to a domain buyer

              This thread is about courses about building networks. Since you are ignorant of the topic all courses that have to do with building networks teach people about buying domains at auctions. Thats why auctions are being discussed

              You are tryng hard to win a point but I guess you will have to do as you suggest


              ....try again.

              With some logic and on the topic next time.
              Duh, just because everyone you know hangs out on domain auctions doesn't mean the rest of the world is following along to sift junk domains. Maybe a few on this thread, sure, that I don't doubt a bit.

              There's more to domains than silly overpriced auctions.
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  • Profile picture of the author DizenSounds
    Surprise surprise. People rehashing what's popular and selling it to people, this has been happening since the start of mankind.

    The thing about private networks is that most people don't understand how to build a real network that will last the test of time. While some of these courses may cover the bases for most people the intricacies of building a staining network is beyond them. They'd be better off using a private network than building one.

    One thing that is evident is that private networks are the most effective means to rank a site well and keep it there. Just don't take shortcuts.
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    • Profile picture of the author jinx1221
      Originally Posted by DizenSounds View Post

      They'd be better off using a private network than building one.
      Even in the crappiest possible private network setup you'd be 1000x worse off using a public blog network (I'm assuming that's what you are suggesting). At the very least setting up a private network and failing, you will at least hopefully learn a little something along the way
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