SEO question: sitestructure and linkjuice

10 replies
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Hello,

Something goes wrong here, but I can't tell exactly what:

I have a page with 2700 links on it (all of them are places of different continents around the world) So 2700 links on one page. This is obviously not going to work well for SEO purposes.

Therefore, we want to divide those links into 3 pages (the give each link more linkjuice and improve the user experience). Now, in this new situation, every page we got has about 900 links (is still too much, I know, but this is just an example to illustrate the point).

My question is actually about how the Pagerank flows to the site.

When we got 2700 links on page A, and the pagerank on this page is 100%, each link should receive 0,03703 linkjuice (100 divided by 2700 links).

When we got 3 links (in this example, only 3 links to other pages on page A, instead of 2700), the amount of juice that each link receives is much larger: 33,3333 is the exact amount of linkjuice, per link (100 divided by 3 links)

But! We still have 2700 links to split, because we want to present all our content to users, off course. We don't want to left something out, but we do want to structure things in a better way.

So, when we have 3 pages and 2700 links to spread, we divide 2700 with 3, that will be 900 links per page (still too much, I know).

But here is the strange thing. When we have 90 percent of our pagerank left (because a certain amount of PR gets lost through each link hop), we divide 90 into 3 different pages: 30% value per page, but every amount of linkjuice stays exactly the same. (call me dumb but I don't see it here).

To do the calculation: 30% value per page, 900 links per page is: 0,03333 juice per link.

So, dispite of my strategy, my seperations are clearly not giving each link more linkjuice/more value.

My question is: what am I doing wrong here?

Thanks a lot.
#linkjuice #question #seo #sitestructure
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    If the page with 2,000 links (or whatever number) is weak in PR, then it really doesn't matter how many links are on the page as far as PR goes. What's the existing page PR, the page with all the links?

    How old is the site/page?
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    • Profile picture of the author Gebruikers
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      If the page with 2,000 links (or whatever number) is weak in PR, then it really doesn't matter how many links are on the page as far as PR goes. What's the existing page PR, the page with all the links?

      How old is the site/page?
      Hi, and thanks,

      Let's say, the existing PR of the page with so much links is 5 (don't know exactly). And the site is 6 years old (how does the last question relate to my question about seperating linkjuice?)

      Matt Cutts says Pagerank gets divided by the number of links (see 1:19 min to 1:44 min). So, therefore, my conclusion is: when I start to spread all my links into different subpages, I have less links on a page (not 2700 on one page anymore), and therefore the amount of pagerank flows to each link should be larger (less links on page), but in my example this is not true. What am I doing wrong.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Gebruikers View Post

        Hi, and thanks,

        Let's say, the existing PR of the page with so much links is 5 (don't know exactly). And the site is 6 years old (how does the last question relate to my question about seperating linkjuice?)

        Matt Cutts says Pagerank gets divided by the number of links (see 1:19 min to 1:44 min). So, therefore, my conclusion is: when I start to spread all my links into different subpages, I have less links on a page (not 2700 on one page anymore), and thereforemy pagerank flows to each links, but in my example this is not true. What am I doing wrong.






        Originally Posted by Gebruikers View Post

        Let's say, the existing PR of the page with so much links is 5 (don't know exactly)..
        Check the PR.









        Originally Posted by Gebruikers View Post

        And the site is 6 years old (how does the last question relate to my question about seperating linkjuice?)
        A site that's a week old won't have established links or any public PR. We get all kinds on this forum, some think they should be ranking pages #1 today because they built their first site yesterday.

        Even with 100 links it would still be diluting any PR. Maybe put most of the links in javascript (dafont example below), then the links you want to use for PR, code those links in HTML.

        [source]
        I don't use a top menu bar I only use the sidebar. Each site is different & there's ways to make an entire header disappear when looking at a Google Cache (text version), just depends how far you want to take SEO. For instance, Wikipedia uses absolute CSS to load their header/sidebar towards the bottom of the HTML source code (now you see it, now you don't), traffic will see that same header/sidebar load at the top of the web page. Dafont has their header setup as javascript (now you see it, now you don't), they've had that same javascript header for years (check wayback (2005)), no slaps.
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        • Profile picture of the author Gebruikers
          Thanks, but this was not the question I was looking for. I'm not a newbie and this is not a newbie question, I think. How would others tackle this problem?
          (too many links on page to flow a reasonable amount of linkjuice through each link)
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          • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
            Originally Posted by Gebruikers View Post

            Thanks, but this was not the question I was looking for. I'm not a newbie and this is not a newbie question, I think. How would others tackle this problem?
            (too many links on page to flow a reasonable amount of linkjuice through each link)
            You're not a newbie but you don't know how to check the PR?

            I would call that page a "gateway" page, where it really isn't important to build PR since the page itself is likely to be seen as not relevant or won't ever have enough links to distribute PR. You're better off to do link building to all the individual links instead of the gateway page and then have a "nearby" module that links to 5-10 pages nearby, assuming it is some sort of location based directory. That's the best I can answer with the limited amount of info available.
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            • Profile picture of the author Gebruikers
              You're not a newbie but you don't know how to check the PR?
              No, i don't find it relevant to my question, that's the thing. So, i don't want to check it, because i think, the exact PR number it's not relevant.

              where it really isn't important to build PR since the page itself
              This subsubpage receives value from the page before. This value (PR) is needed to rank the pages where this subsubpage links to.

              If I would have 2700 links on one page, each link would get 0,0000001 amount of linkjuice for example. That's not so enough in most cases.

              Please see example two here in this article: How Many Links Is Too Many? - Moz

              I would guess that a good rule of thumb is, that it's not smart to create an extra "tree" in the structure if it's not necassary for users. Therefore, I only would make an extra page for usability purposes. And when we look at usability, it's not smart to put 2700 links per page.


              or won't ever have enough links to distribute PR. You're better off to do link building to all the individual links instead of the gateway page
              Yep, thanks, good advice! I could build some links to the individual links or to the subsubcategory page directly.

              Aha! Since I use breadcrumbs, backlinks to this subsubcategory are automatically created and give it more value afterwards.
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              • Profile picture of the author Gebruikers
                Yes, linkjuice passes through links, but each link on a page does not pass an equal amount of linkjuice. That is where your calculation is totally screwed up.

                For example, the higher on a page the link is, the stronger it is.
                You're right, that's another thing, but I don't see it yet at such a detailed level. I'm firstly concerned about this type of situations, where my links get 0,0000001 total value each. And more importantly, how I can solve that.

                Linkbuilding to this section is the answer, which i will do automatically when placing breadcrumbs. It's also possible to do manual linkbuilding to this section. I don't think that I can increase the linkjuice per link, because each extra (sub)category/extra trees in a structure loses a lot of linkjuice anyway, you can't avoid it, if you must create extra directories. More internal/backlinks to that page is the only solution because that creates more value and linkjuice per link.

                Afterall, those pages are going to be one of the "most linked to" pages in the structure, so search engines will know those pages are extra important (and maybe increase the value of it).

                So, i could consider to not create an extra category and leave the 2700 links on one page (that will drive more linkjuice per link through), but that's not good for usability purposes. So, I have to take it as it is, and create an extra subcategory, but then for the purpose to let users find content easier (not necassarily for linkjuice), instead of placing 2700 link on one page.

                And, as Mikefriendman said, most important links at the top of the page.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    Yes, linkjuice passes through links, but each link on a page does not pass an equal amount of linkjuice. That is where your calculation is totally screwed up.

    For example, the higher on a page the link is, the stronger it is.

    Google has said many times that all links on a page are not equal, but they have given little insight into how they value links other than to say that sidebar and footer links are definitely valued less.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

      ...other than to say that sidebar and footer links are definitely valued less.
      I don't think that's necessarily true.

      I have plenty of sidebar links that are currently Google Sitelinks in Google SERPs. That's more clickable links in Google SERPs with almost zero work.

      Same goes for Google Mega Sitelinks, I've seen footer links create Mega Sitelinks on internal pages (very simple pages). I'm currently copying that setup on a small group of my own internal pages.

      Nav. links are very useful for SEO.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        I don't think that's necessarily true.

        I have plenty of sidebar links that are currently Google Sitelinks in Google SERPs. That's more clickable links in Google SERPs with almost zero work.

        Same goes for Google Mega Sitelinks, I've seen footer links create Mega Sitelinks on internal pages (very simple pages). I'm currently copying that setup on a small group of my own internal pages.

        Nav. links are very useful for SEO.

        I'm just talking about as far as passing PR.
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