Using "real/legit" sites as/in your PBN

16 replies
  • SEO
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Hi,
I was reading this thread http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-...ally-know.html and one post (made by yukon) caught my eye.

There's nothing wrong with one person owning a network of same/similar niche sites, it makes passing traffic back & forth a whole lot easier. Example, If I owned a site about woodworking, I would have similar sites like:
  • woodworking plans
  • woodworking tools
  • woodworking show directory
  • woodworking videos
Actually I have been doing something very similar. As the example above I made some sites with different keywords in the same niche and doing SEO for individual sites/keywords too. They each look like a "legit site. (and they are)" and they have their own traffic. All sites link to my money site.

Now my question is, is it OK for these sites to look obvious that they belong to one network of sites as long as they are "legit" sites?

I'm wondering about this because the reason we use different hosts or SEO hosting for PBN is that we don't want Google to know they are owned by the same owner, correct? (Google devalue the links from the sites on the same C-class IPs = same owner).

Then does it mean that even if they are legit sites, if Google finds out they are owned by the same owner, the links to money site would be devalued? (Meaning I should be careful not to make them look they are owned by me.)

But if not (Google still values links), then what makes the difference between a PBN site (Google would de-index or devalue the links once found out) and the "legit" site Google keeps to value the links?

I hope my question makes sense.

Thanks.
#as or in #pbn #real or legit #sites
  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
    Nothing wrong with it at all. Until you start using keyword anchor to manipulate rankings between them.

    Using internal linking would be more legitimate.
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    • Profile picture of the author ikuret75
      Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

      Nothing wrong with it at all. Until you start using keyword anchor to manipulate rankings between them.

      Using internal linking would be more legitimate.
      Thank you - to make it clear, is it OK to link to my money site such as
      (BlahBlah being my keyword).

      If you want to know more about BlahBlah check out my other site about BlahBlah for detailed information.

      etc.?

      Or should I not use my keyword at all?
      Using the keyword like the above example makes sense for the user too (in my mind) and it's not an exact match anchor text, but I'm still using the keyword.

      PS: These sites are not actually linking to each other but linked to money site.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
        Originally Posted by ikuret75 View Post

        Thank you - to make it clear, is it OK to link to my money site such as
        (BlahBlah being my keyword).

        If you want to know more about BlahBlah check out my other site about BlahBlah for detailed information.

        etc.?

        Or should I not use my keyword at all?
        Using the keyword like the above example makes sense for the user too (in my mind) and it's not an exact match anchor text, but I'm still using the keyword.

        PS: These sites are not actually linking to each other but linked to money site.
        I'd be more talking about the natural temptation to go overboard with the linking.

        I might use say 1 keyword on the highest authority page, and say maybe a site brand anchor in the sidebar. It's when people start adding multiple anchor on multiple pages, is when it start going a bit sideways for people.

        If you took the PBN best practice of giving citation to authority sites as an example. You give authority sites links within your content along with your own links to your money site. So instead of giving someone else's authority site the citation link, your giving it to your authority site instead.

        The idea is to pass authority to your main site and not so much the anchor text.

        Hope that makes sense.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Ask your question another way and I think you will get your answer

          If google knows they are all my sites will they be okay with me manipulating their serps for a given keyword?

          The answer is no and if I am your competitor and you telegraph they are all your sites then I am putting in a report. Google has said nowhere that PBNs are okay if they are around the same niche. Of course many sites get away with sister links here and there but an entire link profile of sites known to belong to the same person runs a big risk.

          Niche based is fine. Obviously all owned by the same party linking and manipulating serps? not going to make Google happy.
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        • Profile picture of the author ikuret75
          Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

          I'd be more talking about the natural temptation to go overboard with the linking.

          I might use say 1 keyword on the highest authority page, and say maybe a site brand anchor in the sidebar. It's when people start adding multiple anchor on multiple pages, is when it start going a bit sideways for people.

          If you took the PBN best practice of giving citation to authority sites as an example. You give authority sites links within your content along with your own links to your money site. So instead of giving someone else's authority site the citation link, your giving it to your authority site instead.

          The idea is to pass authority to your main site and not so much the anchor text.

          Hope that makes sense.
          Thank you very much Kevin for your input.

          I was very careful and actually putting only one link to money site on the home page(s) with a similar anchor text I described in my last post (keyword is in it but not exact match).

          My worry was that since I say frankly that the links were to "my other site," Google might devalue them if they find them. But now I understand that if I don't go overboard with links and these sites were made for users, I don't have to worry about it.(Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

          Incidentally, If you don't mind answering, if I want to put more links not for SEO (giving link juice) but for traffic, should I "no follow" them? I sell my product on money site so I want to put an ad - according to Google ads should be "no-follow"ed. Should this apply to your own sites?

          So - I would put

          * One contextual link on the homepage(s) with the keyword (to my money site)
          * Sidebar link to my money site with the brand name anchor(that actually contains the keyword though - maybe I should refrain from it?).
          *"No follow" Header or Footer ads to the sales page (on money site)

          If you could let me know what you think it would be really appreciated.
          Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I've posted this before, have a look at animalplanet.com that's a decent size PBN of same/similar type legit sites. Some are just sub-domains but a lot are unique domains.
    • hxxp://www.animalplanet.com





    Google is smart about page relevancy which makes it easy to pass authority to the next page your trying to rank. Page <title>, <h> tags, keyword proximity, & relevancy go a long ways when linking to other sites/pages in your network, basically what you need to do is make the external page an extension of your authority page (the page your linking from) whether it's on the same domain or an external domain.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I've posted this before, have a look at animalplanet.com that's a decent size PBN of same/similar type legit sites. Some are just sub-domains but a lot are unique domains.
      • hxxp://www.animalplanet.com
      A) No one here is in the same league as animal planet that gets TON LOADS of organic links that dwarf the links they get from their own related properties.

      B) Animalplanet is not getting links concentrated on anchor text from those sites as a marketer will

      C) No one in their right mind would think that any of those major sites exist for the sake of being a PBN. No IMer here can produce those kinds of sites by themselves (most on that list have entire writing staffs and ton loads of resources)

      You could add disney and Microsoft to that list . It still does not make the scenario similar.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        A) No one here is in the same league as animal planet
        Typical I can't do what the big boys do whining. :rolleyes:

        Same mentality as, Wikipedia has magical SEO powers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Typical I can't do what the big boys do whining. :rolleyes:

          Same mentality as, Wikipedia has magical SEO powers.
          Will you EVER make a good mature point? Has nothing to do with magical powers it has to do with the quality and quantity of content one or two people can put out as compared to large teams of professional writers.

          Such a vacuous point. Let me know when you and your brother start the next CNN.com in your momma's basement.
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  • Profile picture of the author ikuret75
    Thank you Mike and yukon,
    I know you guys are both experts (Kevin also) and I appreciate your inputs.
    But this is where I get really confused...

    Some say it is bad and some say it would be fine...
    I think this comes down to "what is for manipulating the SERPs"?

    As much as I would understand and agree to some extent what Mike just said, I would also think it makes sense to link to your other sites, when relevant.

    I know it's up to Google to decide but are we all supposed to use "no follow" when linking to your other sites even when it is relevant?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by ikuret75 View Post

      As much as I would understand and agree to some extent what Mike just said, I would also think it makes sense to link to your other sites, when relevant.
      Sure here and there and I am not denying that but when you say make a PBN out of it or use those sites as a PBN thats another matter entirely. I don't see the point really. Make a niche related PBN and make it as top quality as you wish but to me it just makes no sense to telegraph they are all owned by the same entity. Set them up separately and keep that to yourself. You do not have to put content that gives away its the same owner on all of the PBN.

      Why bother with the risk that a manual reviewer with that knowledge of identical owner might say - hey this is just a niche based PBN - bye to these sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author ikuret75
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Sure here and there and I am not denying that but when you say make a PBN out of it or use those sites as a PBN thats another matter entirely. I don't see the point really. Make a niche related PBN and make it as top quality as you wish but to me it just makes no sense to telegraph they are all owned by the same entity. Set them up separately and keep that to yourself. You do not have to put content that gives away its the same owner on all of the PBN.

        Why bother with the risk that a manual reviewer with that knowledge of identical owner might say - hey this is just a niche based PBN - bye to these sites.
        Thank you very much Mike. I appreciate your reply.

        It makes sense not to give away the fact the sites belong to me.

        However one thing it gets tricky is that I sell an info product and I explain my methods in each site - so my "brand name" matters a bit too.

        Example - if Cesar Millan (dog whisper -a famous dog trainer) were selling his DVD on his website, and made separate websites such as "dog training for small dogs" "dog training for big dogs" etc. and explained about his techniques, wouldn't it make more sense to explain the method as himself on each website? (I'm not as big as him of course, but people actually search my name in my niche).

        So - my sites don't exist only for PBN, but also for my branding.
        In such a case should I just give up on using these for the link source for my money site (the main product site) but just use "no follow" links for traffic?

        I hope my explanation makes sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
      Originally Posted by ikuret75 View Post

      Thank you Mike and yukon,
      I know you guys are both experts (Kevin also) and I appreciate your inputs.
      But this is where I get really confused...

      Some say it is bad and some say it would be fine...
      I think this comes down to "what is for manipulating the SERPs"?

      As much as I would understand and agree to some extent what Mike just said, I would also think it makes sense to link to your other sites, when relevant.

      I know it's up to Google to decide but are we all supposed to use "no follow" when linking to your other sites even when it is relevant?
      If it is your own product you are selling.

      Why don't you set up an affiliate system. Then build your PBN using fake affiliate sites. Setting the affiliate links rich in keyword anchor text. This will pass the authority without any possibility of detection of being a PBN.
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      • Profile picture of the author ikuret75
        Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

        If it is your own product you are selling.

        Why don't you set up an affiliate system. Then build your PBN using fake affiliate sites. Setting the affiliate links rich in keyword anchor text. This will pass the authority without any possibility of detection of being a PBN.
        Thanks Kevin

        I actually do use an affiliate system but didn't think of using my own affiliate link! (That's what you mean, right?)

        Sorry one part I was not clear was if it is my own product, I should use the "no follow" tag?
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        • Profile picture of the author Kevin Maguire
          Originally Posted by ikuret75 View Post

          Thanks Kevin

          I actually do use an affiliate system but didn't think of using my own affiliate link! (That's what you mean, right?)
          Yep I sure do...

          Use the alternate incoming page link converter the affiliates use for linking direct to internal pages, or wherever you want. I'm sure I've just sent readers minds racing..
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      • Profile picture of the author multiplecloud
        Originally Posted by Kevin Maguire View Post

        If it is your own product you are selling.

        Why don't you set up an affiliate system. Then build your PBN using fake affiliate sites. Setting the affiliate links rich in keyword anchor text. This will pass the authority without any possibility of detection of being a PBN.
        Good idea though
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