[TheAge]

I'm actually wondering myself whether the majority of power came from the links from blog commenting, seeing as that they are so easy to find and crawl.

Profile links (which is all that's included on June's packet, thanks to spammers ruining the blogs for everyone), on the other hand are much harder for the search engines to find. You would probably have to link to them from elsewhere in order for the crawlers to find them.

Even then, profile links are probably a lot less powerful, seeing as that with blog posts, you have people linking to them from all over the internet, thus building their authority and status. With profile linking, this doesn't happen. Of course they're probably far from worthless, but still, it's a thought.

Can anybody offer their opinion on this, with good reasoning to back it up?

Adrian

[Angela V. Edwards]

Hi Adrian,

I've used the pretty much ONLY the "profile" type links to get my doctor's website to Number One in Google for his keywords (where he remains to this day), my friend Rick's site to number one, number two, number 8 and number 9 in Google for HIS keywords (that was in LESS than a week), as well as several other projects I've worked on to Page One. I don't think that either type of backlink is more "powerful" thank others, although I've had people tell me that the sites that allow you to set up a blog work very well for them.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by belgirl

So far after 4 days...nada. Not even showing up on any page in google results...

When people say they haven't seen much movement, I always ask them a small series of questions, just to see if there are any other factors that might have caused this. These are the questions I ask; you may want to go through them and see if any of these factors might be causing the slow movement:

1. Do you vary your keywords? (It is best NOT to vary your keywords at all.) If you vary your keywords, you are weakening the power of the backlinks:

I do not recommend varying your keywords. For instance, if you want to be at the top of Google for iPod, and you used 3 DIFFERENT keywords: iPod, podcast, electronics (as an example), then you are getting only 10 sites per keyword. You are LOSING a bunch of Google power by not using all 30,and if you are not moving up in Google, that is probably why.

Adobe is number one for the phrase "click here" out of more than TWO BILLION websites, with or without quotes. That's because MILLIONS of other sites used those exact words in anchor text on their site for Adobe. That didn't harm Adobe at all; it helped them. This idea about varying anchor text came about after the "Miserable Failure" prank that
was played on George W. Bush. Google only takes action about stuff like this when it is FORCED to and when it is obvious that a prank or other kind of mischief has taken place. It doesn't do it as a matter of course. I haven't EVER varied my anchor text and my name Angela is number two out of almost 80 million and my article is number two out of more than 12 million for the keyword backlinks.

I advise that people do NOT vary their anchor text.

2. Have you submitted to directories? (These apparently are being seen as nothing more than "glorified link farms" and Google appears to be frowning on them nowadays)

3. Are you trying to compete with millions and millions of competing websites? (I've had people ask me why they weren't on Page One in a week. When I looked at their competition, they had 124 MILLION competing sites. Obviously, this will take longer)

If any of these questions apply to you, they may be causing your slow movement. If not, you can certainly write me an email or a PM and I'd be glad to have a look at your information to see if I can tell what might be causing the slow movment.

[ripsnorta2]

Originally Posted by TheAge

Profile links (which is all that's included on June's packet, thanks to spammers ruining the blogs for everyone), on the other hand are much harder for the search engines to find. You would probably have to link to them from elsewhere in order for the crawlers to find them.

Unfortunately, even those are being ruined. I went to add a profile over the weekend on one of the top ranked sites, six days after I received the packet, and the admins had disabled the ability to make new accounts/profiles until they had sorted out the spam.

[indie08]

I've discovered this as well but so far I've only run into about 5 sites or so.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Yes, and there are going to be a few sites that remove the ability to get a link. There is just NO getting around it. But even if you were able to get 80% of the backlinks in the packet, think of how much you would SAVE from what you'd be spending getting these links from other marketers. I've seen marketers charge $65 for ONE Page Rank 5 backlink every month. ONE link!! Do the math and figure out how much these High Page Rank backlinks would cost you on the "open market" every month.

I was the first one to start a program like this. That's probably why the backlinks are so popular to the "black hatters" too...because they work and you can't get these anywhere else. But even if you can only get a portion of the links a month, imagine how much money that would save you if your only other choice was PPC or paying to "rent" each and every link every month.

[ripsnorta2]

I agree Angela. I'll admit to feeling somewhat disappointed when I tried that site the other day, but, the good news is, with only three or four links for one of my keywords one of my pages went from 71 to 7 over just three days.

That keyword did do the google dance, 71 => 27 => 88 => 14 => ?? => 7, and will probably settle down now. But I intend to add a few more sites for it and hopefully get it in the top four.

[vuedoolor]

Will lets say that you use "Blogging to the bank customer review & ratings" as your anchor text..

Will you be able to rank for multiple keyphrases? Meaning will you eventually rank for multiple keyphrases such as:

"blogging to the bank review"
"blogging to the bank customer review"
"blogging to the bank ratings"
"blogging to the bank"

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by ripsnorta2

I agree Angela. I'll admit to feeling somewhat disappointed when I tried that site the other day, but, the good news is, with only three or four links for one of my keywords one of my pages went from 71 to 7 over just three days.

That keyword did do the google dance, 71 => 27 => 88 => 14 => ?? => 7, and will probably settle down now. But I intend to add a few more sites for it and hopefully get it in the top four.

That's excellent news that you got that much great movement. The Google Dance is a bit disturbing, but it seems to happen to EVERYONE and it's temporary. Keep me posted on how it goes for you.

[ripsnorta2]

I've found that when I use a keyword phrase like "Product X Review", I rank well for "Product X Review" and a lot less well for "Product X."

In fact that's what I was describing above. I had "Product X Review" in the top 3 for some time because that was the anchor text I was using. Adding those backlinks the other day for "Product X" moved that keyword up the rankings quite nicely.

[belgirl]

Ok, so explain this one--my web design site that is:

1. Entirely in Flash
2. I have not done anything SEO related except add meta tags and a google site map
3. Has a blog with only about 8 posts that has not been updated in YEARS.

Has a PR Ranking of 3. WHAT THE........? I haven't done jack with that site.

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

When people say they haven't seen much movement, I always ask them a small series of questions, just to see if there are any other factors that might have caused this. These are the questions I ask; you may want to go through them and see if any of these factors might be causing the slow movement:

1. Do you vary your keywords? (It is best NOT to vary your keywords at all.) If you vary your keywords, you are weakening the power of the backlinks:

I do not recommend varying your keywords. For instance, if you want to be at the top of Google for iPod, and you used 3 DIFFERENT keywords: iPod, podcast, electronics (as an example), then you are getting only 10 sites per keyword. You are LOSING a bunch of Google power by not using all 30,and if you are not moving up in Google, that is probably why.

Adobe is number one for the phrase "click here" out of more than TWO BILLION websites, with or without quotes. That's because MILLIONS of other sites used those exact words in anchor text on their site for Adobe. That didn't harm Adobe at all; it helped them. This idea about varying anchor text came about after the "Miserable Failure" prank that
was played on George W. Bush. Google only takes action about stuff like this when it is FORCED to and when it is obvious that a prank or other kind of mischief has taken place. It doesn't do it as a matter of course. I haven't EVER varied my anchor text and my name Angela is number two out of almost 80 million and my article is number two out of more than 12 million for the keyword backlinks.

I advise that people do NOT vary their anchor text.

2. Have you submitted to directories? (These apparently are being seen as nothing more than "glorified link farms" and Google appears to be frowning on them nowadays)

3. Are you trying to compete with millions and millions of competing websites? (I've had people ask me why they weren't on Page One in a week. When I looked at their competition, they had 124 MILLION competing sites. Obviously, this will take longer)

If any of these questions apply to you, they may be causing your slow movement. If not, you can certainly write me an email or a PM and I'd be glad to have a look at your information to see if I can tell what might be causing the slow movment.

Checked today and there are only 314,000 for the words "panic attack heart symptoms" To answer your questions: 1. No, I have not varied my keywords at all. I have used "panic attack heart symptoms" in that order for my article and backlinks. 2. I used "Free Traffic System" which submit articles to blogs--it has posted to about 10 different blogs. Other thank that, I have not submitted to any article directories. 3. No, checked today--only 314,000 competing sites. Should I just give it more time?

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by belgirl

Checked today and there are only 314,000 for the words "panic attack heart symptoms" To answer your questions: 1. No, I have not varied my keywords at all. I have used "panic attack heart symptoms" in that order for my article and backlinks. 2. I used "Free Traffic System" which submit articles to blogs--it has posted to about 10 different blogs. Other thank that, I have not submitted to any article directories. 3. No, checked today--only 314,000 competing sites. Should I just give it more time?

Definitely give it more time. I don't know anything about the Free Traffic System, but normally when someone does not see movement as quickly as my tests have shown, they are using some variation to what I normally do. It could be directory submissions, it could be varying the keywords, it could be adding another 'program', such as the Free Traffic System.

I am not saying that this is for SURE what the cause could be, but that is the one variable that I haven't done with ALL of my projects and that may be the one thing that is slowing the movement. I just don't know for sure, but definitely watch it and see what happens.

[Samos]

@angela: So you mean it is better to only use your method. And not submit to directories? Because it will have negative impact.

I don't really agree I think every method has its own benefits but combining them is even more effective. I suggest doing article marketing / angelas method / directories submissions.

I don't have any results yet. But on one site I am only using your method and on the other I use all methods I know. Just to see how well yours performs.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Samos

@angela: So you mean it is better to only use your method. And not submit to directories? Because it will have negative impact.

I don't really agree I think every method has its own benefits but combining them is even more effective. I suggest doing article marketing / angelas method / directories submissions.

I don't have any results yet. But on one site I am only using your method and on the other I use all methods I know. Just to see how well yours performs.

Well, I'm not trying to say that ONLY my method is effective. However, number 1. I DO know that directories are NOT good anymore. They are being seen as nothing more than "link farms" and number 2. I have tested and tested and TESTED my method. I have never seen it fail to get a website onto Page One, usually very quickly.

Then, I will get someone who says "well, it's just not working for me". I ask a series of questions and I always find out that they've tweaked it somehow. They've added something, they've submitted to directories, they've combined it with someone else's program, etc, etc. When the links "don't work", in EVERY case those have been the times that people have added something else to doing just the links the way they're set up.

Testing things is GOOD. That's the ONLY way we're going to learn things. But from these "tests" that people have inadvertently been doing, it's coming out that they are NOT helping them at all. In fact, they're slowing or stopping the movement in Google. I really don't know why that is.

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Well, I'm not trying to say that ONLY my method is effective. However, number 1. I DO know that directories are NOT good anymore. They are being seen as nothing more than "link farms"

So all we have to do is submit our competitor's links to directories?

[indie08]

Quick update:

Just checked an article of mine that has relentlessly been sitting on page 9-10 for a couple weeks now. It just jumped to the top of page 3! Not bad...time to do some more backlinking....

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Kurt

So all we have to do is submit our competitor's links to directories?

LOL, well I am sure there are marketers who WILL do that sort of thing. I also had a situation after the spammers had rampaged through a website where that website made a "blacklist" of everybody who had posted a link on that site of any type. People were worried about it until I reminded them that if this sort of shenanigan was going to make an impact with Google then EVERY marketer would come up with a published "blacklist" and add their competitors to it.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by indie08

Quick update:

Just checked an article of mine that has relentlessly been sitting on page 9-10 for a couple weeks now. It just jumped to the top of page 3! Not bad...time to do some more backlinking....

That's excellent news, Indie.

[danjames20]

Hello Angela,

Just read up about this and it looks fantastic! my question is, how do i get the free 30 backlinks? I looked at the site and it asked for paypal details? but I thought it was free? (sorry i know that sounds cheap but i really haven't got much spare money at the moment)

thanks

[Angela V. Edwards]

It's a Paypal subscription, but when you sign up, you sign up for $0.00 for the first 30 days. So you will still be subscribing through Paypal, but you won't be charged anything right now.

[danjames20]

that's great thanks i run two websites one design and one photography, can i use the links on both?

joined via paypal

[indie08]

Angela,

I had a question. The sites you have where you have to set up a blog...can I use content from e-zine articles etc to make posts with a link back to my article?

Thank You

[indie08]

Danjames,

Yes, you can use the links for the sites you mentioned...

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by indie08

Angela,

I had a question. The sites you have where you have to set up a blog...can I use content from e-zine articles etc to make posts with a link back to my article?

Thank You

Yes. I do this all the time; I copy and paste my article into the blog and then put a link back to my article.

[askloz]

That's a piece of cake, you can do that without any backlinks.

and 400,000 search results is not your true competition either. a true count of something that shows that many pages, probably has something around 50-150 related sites that are your true competition...

dont be mislead that 400k sites is hard to beat and you need high pr sites to rank high of results of that many, cos it's a load of Bull.

Originally Posted by belgirl

So Angela sent out an email talking about how in one week, you can get your link on the first page of Google with a keyword(s) that has less than 400,000 search results,

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by askloz

That's a piece of cake, you can do that without any backlinks.

and 400,000 search results is not your true competition either. a true count of something that shows that many pages, probably has something around 50-150 related sites that are your true competition...

dont be mislead that 400k sites is hard to beat and you need high pr sites to rank high of results of that many, cos it's a load of Bull.

Rather than simply saying another method doesn't work. Could you provide an alternative so we can discuss it?

[Samos]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Well, I'm not trying to say that ONLY my method is effective. However, number 1. I DO know that directories are NOT good anymore. They are being seen as nothing more than "link farms" and number 2. I have tested and tested and TESTED my method. I have never seen it fail to get a website onto Page One, usually very quickly.

Then, I will get someone who says "well, it's just not working for me". I ask a series of questions and I always find out that they've tweaked it somehow. They've added something, they've submitted to directories, they've combined it with someone else's program, etc, etc. When the links "don't work", in EVERY case those have been the times that people have added something else to doing just the links the way they're set up.

Testing things is GOOD. That's the ONLY way we're going to learn things. But from these "tests" that people have inadvertently been doing, it's coming out that they are NOT helping them at all. In fact, they're slowing or stopping the movement in Google. I really don't know why that is.

Thanks for your answer. I also think that submitting your site to too many directories isn't good, but I had a site which I submitted to only like 100 high pr directories pr 3+. And it was on first page result after like 2 weeks, wasn't a competive niche though. But you never know what was the true reason it came high so fast as I also did bookmaking etc..

I like to test things, as I don't take somebody elses word easy will keep it updated how well it performs when doing all methods and when doing only your method.

I am beginning to find myself a spammer though when using your method . I don't think this method lasts for ever google will probably catch up to it soon. How long have you been using it already?

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by askloz

That's a piece of cake, you can do that without any backlinks.

and 400,000 search results is not your true competition either. a true count of something that shows that many pages, probably has something around 50-150 related sites that are your true competition...

dont be mislead that 400k sites is hard to beat and you need high pr sites to rank high of results of that many, cos it's a load of Bull.

Really? So how have you done it? Give us some concrete examples please.

[askloz]

I never said a method doesn't work, I said there is no need to get all those high PR back links for a search term that has 400,000 PAGE results. 400,000 is nothing.

10,000,000, now you're on to something.

Originally Posted by Andy Fletcher

Rather than simply saying another method doesn't work. Could you provide an alternative so we can discuss it?

[askloz]

How much you willing to pay to show examples?

Originally Posted by belgirl

Really? So how have you done it? Give us some concrete examples please.

[Angela V. Edwards]

The reason I tell people to look for their competition WITHOUT quotes is because most searchers don't use quotes. Most people don't even KNOW anything about using quotes when they search. Yes, your "true competition" is what you see when you plug in your keywords with quotes, but that is NOT what your searchers will see. If you are number 2 WITH quotes, but number 30 without quotes, what good is that going to do you? People who are searching for your keywords won't find your site, since most people don't look beyond Page One. You might as well be number 869.

The backlinks have ranked me number 2 out of 83 MILLION for the keyword Angela, so no...it won't ONLY work with 400,000 or below. I used 500,000 or below because people can rank QUICKLY with those numbers.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Samos

Thanks for your answer. I also think that submitting your site to too many directories isn't good, but I had a site which I submitted to only like 100 high pr directories pr 3+. And it was on first page result after like 2 weeks, wasn't a competive niche though. But you never know what was the true reason it came high so fast as I also did bookmaking etc..

I like to test things, as I don't take somebody elses word easy will keep it updated how well it performs when doing all methods and when doing only your method.

I am beginning to find myself a spammer though when using your method . I don't think this method lasts for ever google will probably catch up to it soon. How long have you been using it already?

I have been using it for over a year. I am still number 2 out of 83 million for the keyword Angela and number 2 out of 10.5 million for the keyword Backlinks.

I am taking out all "comment type" links from my packets because people WERE spamming the sites, which I do NOT advocate. I have NEVER spammed the sites. "Black hatters" are giving the packets away for free on their forums and some sites have been spammed.

However, remember that there are over a TRILLION webpages online. Google isn't going to reach down and strike you dead like some Zeus from the sky. Spammers have been spamming sites for at least a decade; it's nothing new. Here is how long it would take if EVERY Google employee were to look at every page on the Internet without taking ONE, single, break. No bathroom breaks, no sleep breaks, no smoke breaks, no meal breaks:

Employees – On a worldwide basis, Google employed 20,164 full-time employees as of March 31, 2009, down from 20,222 full-time employees as of December 31, 2008.


http://investor.google.com/releases/2009Q1_google_earnings.html


One trillion divided by 365 days in a year = 2,739,726,027.39



2739726027.39 divided by 24 hours in a day= 114155251.14 items per hour


114155251.14 items per hour divided by 20164 GOOGLE employees = 5661.33 items per hour based on a 24/7/365 year, no time off at all.


5661.33 items per hour divided by 60 minutes in an hour = 94.355 items per minute.


94.355 divided by 60 seconds in one minute = 1.572 SECONDS are available for each item, based on every GOOGLE employee working NON-STOP, 24/7/365


That's also with no slowing down to look at some sites. 1.572 seconds per webpage per person. That's IT!! Google works based on an algorithm. That's how they HAVE to do things.

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by askloz

How much you willing to pay to show examples?

Why should I have to pay you when I can use Angela's method for FREE? Have you read her full article?

[askloz]

nah, I don't need to, I know a lot about SEO already.

Originally Posted by belgirl

Why should I have to pay you when I can use Angela's method for FREE? Have you read her full article?

[Texjd]

I've tried to stay out of this but I can't resist. Belgirl, one small detail about your free method is that it hasn't worked yet =8~).

Angela is right about a lot that she says but there are many ways to get traffic and you might want to check out Loz before you choose to not even ask how much.

If what he offers works, it might be worth what he asks.

Backlinks count in many ways but there are some other factors that come into play. That's why some webpages jump to the front and some don't. The webpage PR rank is not the only factor that has impact on the link web page. And the web page you're linking to has many factors that can effect the result.

Getting traffic to your web page is just the first step in the process. Important as traffic is, the real action starts when they get there.

[belgirl]

Yeah, but its only been a few days. If after 2 weeks it hasn't worked, then I will reconsider. Again this thread is entitled "The Angela experiment." If you haven't read her article on what am I referring to, I would encourage it, as it may give better insight on "the method behind the madness."

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by askloz

nah, I don't need to, I know a lot about SEO already.

Seo is a dynamic beast. You can never know too much about SEO. I would encourage you to read her article.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

The reason I tell people to look for their competition WITHOUT quotes is because most searchers don't use quotes. Most people don't even KNOW anything about using quotes when they search. Yes, your "true competition" is what you see when you plug in your keywords with quotes, but that is NOT what your searchers will see. If you are number 2 WITH quotes, but number 30 without quotes, what good is that going to do you?

I am in full agreement with this.

[debtfreehispanic]

Angela gives some great advice. I like what she says about Adobe and 'click here'. That is some major free advertising.

[Kevin McNally]

I have no doubt that backlinks from Angela's packs will help you increase your rankings but the most important step is researching the correct keywords before you test any method.

The keywords in this case study have no demand so even securing the top positions in google will not help much. Using the free version of wordtracker is only good for basic research as most of the data regarding demand is flawed and often the keywords displayed will be displayed in a random order as opposed to the adwords external tool which will show you the exact phrase demand.

[Ursa Bratina]

Let me tell you my experience with implementing Angela's Goarticles WSO.

I put up an article with around 3500 searches a month and 605,000 sites in Google without quotes. After doing the first 30 backlinks from May's packet, the article was on page two the next day (don't remember exactly which position). After 2 days, Google de-indexed it for about three or four days. I was doing June packets in the meantime. After the article reappeared it jumped to number 8. It stayed there for a few days. I was still doing backlinks from previous months and for the last two days the article is number 3 right after two ezine articles. This all happened in about 7 - 10 days. I had done around 90 backlinks (maybe a little less, because I skipped all those websites that you have to make comments on).

I have submitted four more articles three days ago and all got indexed immediately. I made around 30 backlinks for all four in the last two days. Only one of them is number 17 today (547 searches a day and 105,000 sites in Google). Other three are nowhere to be found yet. I will do more backlinks today and tomorrow for these articles, so we'll see how it goes.

I implemented around 90 backlinks to a complete new blog, which I plan to flip in a few months. The blog is number 2 after around 10 days. It has 136 searches a day for my main keyword and 10,600,000 sites in Google without quotes. It also brings me traffic for other keywords from day one after it was indexed (and de-indexed for a day). The blog has 9 articles right now. I had also made backlinks for a few other keywords and articles on my blog.

All in all, with Angela's backlinks and some keyword research nobody can complain how to get traffic anymore. That's all there is to it.

No disrespect to Paul's (and others) backlinks, currently I subscribe only to Angela's, that is why I only mention hers.

I'm going on a vacation tomorrow afternoon and will be gone until the 22nd, unfortunately I'll have no internet access. After I get back, I will subscribe to Paul's backlinks too and report back what happened in the meantime with my articles and blogs.

After I get back, I will also do a case study with a few articles, following Angela's WSO just the way she describes.

MINI UPDATE on the four articles: I made only about 7 links yesterday (Thursday), because I didn't have more time, and one article is still missing, the one which was on spot 17 is now on spot 30, one article is on spot 9 and one is on spot 20 today.

[belgirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin McNally

I have no doubt that backlinks from Angela's packs will help you increase your rankings but the most important step is researching the correct keywords before you test any method.

The keywords in this case study have no demand so even securing the top positions in google will not help much. Using the free version of wordtracker is only good for basic research as most of the data regarding demand is flawed and often the keywords displayed will be displayed in a random order as opposed to the adwords external tool which will show you the exact phrase demand.

What do you mean they have no demand? If "panic attack heart symptoms" gets over 200 searches a day, and I am at the top at Google and only 2 people click on my link and buy the product, I have just made $100--for free. What am I missing here??

[Kevin McNally]

Originally Posted by belgirl

What do you mean they have no demand? If "panic attack heart symptoms" gets over 200 searches a day, and I am at the top at Google and only 2 people click on my link and buy the product, I have just made $100--for free. What am I missing here??

Hi

According to adwords tool there is no data for this keyword which normally means there is no demand unfortunately, did you get this keyword from wordtracker ?

The quickest way to get the most accurate demand for a keyword is to run an adwords campaign targeting the "exact match keyword" and even after a few days you will have a good idea of the demand just by checking impressions if you are on page one for adwords.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Kevin McNally

Hi

According to adwords tool there is no data for this keyword which normally means there is no demand unfortunately, did you get this keyword from wordtracker ?

The quickest way to get the most accurate demand for a keyword is to run an adwords campaign targeting the "exact match keyword" and even after a few days you will have a good idea of the demand just by checking impressions if you are on page one for adwords.

Not necessarily. I am number 2 for the keyword Backlinks. 22 people a day search for that keyword, which is MUCH lower than some of the other keywords people are aiming for. I have made MANY sales from this keyword...however, if you were to look, there is NOT ONE "Adwords" campaign for the keyword.

If there are daily searches for the keyword and you have a product that you can sell that "fits" and people buy it, there's a demand, regardless of what PPC advertisers think.

Do you think that back in the day, before EVERYBODY was selling the "how to get your ex back" products that the first people who decided to sell a product like that weren't making money? Of course they were! Just because the advertisers hadn't capitalized on that YET didn't mean that it wasn't a "money keyword" or that it wasn't a keyword that was in demand. It simply meant that the advertisers hadn't caught up to that type of product yet!

The examples you are seeing in this thread are the LONG TAIL versions of some major keywords. Panic heart attack symptoms is the long tail version of the keyword Panic Attack, which has PLENTY of PPC ads. We're told as marketers to look for long tail keywords and then we've got people who tell us those aren't "money keywords" and they aren't "in demand" and we should look for "adwords keywords". Which is it? The idea behind the "long tail" keyword is that you place more quickly than you would with a keyword that has MILLIONS and MILLIONS of competing sites.

[Texjd]

I agree with Kevin, free wordtracker data should only be used to show which terms are popular. In fact, no keyword tool is acurate down to a specific count due the nature of the Internet. You use any keyword tool to show more popular terms.

Sorry, for anyone to say that a keyword or phrase gets XXX seaches a day is first of all speaking of historical data at best and the number of variables are endless. Keyword tools provide help in seeing what are the more popular terms, not to give exact numbers.

And since I'm back on the soapbox, the number of competing sites is not the most important factor. It's the number of sites that have some serious rankings all ready. If you find a term that only has 350,000 websites with that term, you may still have 1000 powerful websites that you may not easily beat. And conversely you can have 2,000,000 competing websites but none with any rankings power so you can get ranked.

That's where many people run off the tracks, you have to look at the competition in regard to how strong they are and how much effort would be required to outrank them.

And the PPC ad number is just one more factor to consider, not an absolute. You have to watch the ads for a period of time before you can make any real judgement call.

There are few absolutes in this business, just factors that can help you determine the best keywords to start with and then test. Google will even tell you that more than a high percentage of searches are unique.

And to think if 2 people click on an article and that will result in two purchases, well, you might say that is pretty optimistic =8~).

[Kevin McNally]

Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards

Not necessarily. I am number 2 for the keyword Backlinks. 22 people a day search for that keyword, which is MUCH lower than some of the other keywords people are aiming for. I have made MANY sales from this keyword...however, if you were to look, there is NOT ONE "Adwords" campaign for the keyword.

If there are daily searches for the keyword and you have a product that you can sell that "fits" and people buy it, there's a demand, regardless of what PPC advertisers think.

Do you think that back in the day, before EVERYBODY was selling the "how to get your ex back" products that the first people who decided to sell a product like that weren't making money? Of course they were! Just because the advertisers hadn't capitalized on that YET didn't mean that it wasn't a "money keyword" or that it wasn't a keyword that was in demand. It simply meant that the advertisers hadn't caught up to that type of product yet!

The examples you are seeing in this thread are the LONG TAIL versions of some major keywords. Panic heart attack symptoms is the long tail version of the keyword Panic Attack, which has PLENTY of PPC ads. We're told as marketers to look for long tail keywords and then we've got people who tell us those aren't "money keywords" and they aren't "in demand" and we should look for "adwords keywords". Which is it? The idea behind the "long tail" keyword is that you place more quickly than you would with a keyword that has MILLIONS and MILLIONS of competing sites.

Your system is clearly working Angela and I know what you are saying regarding finding keywords that convert well but I would still always target long tail keywords that show some demand .

No keyword tool is perfect of course and there many keywords that appear on my web stats that don't show up in keyword tools.

[Angela V. Edwards]

But if the PPC demand is there for "Panic Attack" and Panic Heart Attack Symptoms is a Long Tail version of that keyword and that still has 3-digit searches of its own every day, how is it that it won't convert well? It's a portion of the crowd who is looking for information about Panic Attacks.

[Angela V. Edwards]

Originally Posted by Texjd

I agree with Kevin, free wordtracker data should only be used to show which terms are popular. In fact, no keyword tool is acurate down to a specific count due the nature of the Internet. You use any keyword tool to show more popular terms.

Sorry, for anyone to say that a keyword or phrase gets XXX seaches a day is first of all speaking of historical data at best and the number of variables are endless. Keyword tools provide help in seeing what are the more popular terms, not to give exact numbers.

And since I'm back on the soapbox, the number of competing sites is not the most important factor. It's the number of sites that have some serious rankings all ready. If you find a term that only has 350,000 websites with that term, you may still have 1000 powerful websites that you may not easily beat. And conversely you can have 2,000,000 competing websites but none with any rankings power so you can get ranked.

That's where many people run off the tracks, you have to look at the competition in regard to how strong they are and how much effort would be required to outrank them.

And the PPC ad number is just one more factor to consider, not an absolute. You have to watch the ads for a period of time before you can make any real judgement call.

There are few absolutes in this business, just factors that can help you determine the best keywords to start with and then test. Google will even tell you that more than a high percentage of searches are unique.

And to think if 2 people click on an article and that will result in two purchases, well, you might say that is pretty optimistic =8~).

That all works if you have money for PPC. We're talking more about "Bum Marketing" type techniques here. We're submitting a HIGHLY competitive keyword and looking for long tail variations of that keyword that still get multiple daily searches. Not everybody has big money to pay Google for PPC.

[belgirl]

UPDATE: Well my article has suddenly appeared as #37 out of over 800,000 competing pages...tee hee...let's see if it climbs further!