Why Is Affiliate Marketing With Backpage/Craigslist Such A Bust?

26 replies
Hi Warriors:

I hope the holiday season is going well for all.

I'm very curious about something I read in one of the Warrior Forum threads maybe a couple of weeks back. I am sorry I did not keep the link.

Somebody asked if they were to use Backpage Posting Software or pay somebody on Fiverr to run an ad in 100 large cities for a popular Clickbank affiliate product how would they do?

An experienced marketer wrote back and told them if they ran even two ads (one for Product A and one for Product B) and either sent the people using a PHP redirect directly to the affiliate page in the link or sent them directly to their own website they would get a total of 0-1 sales for the two ads combined.

I mentioned this to a somebody I see sometimes at a local eatery and they tried the experiment. They took two popular Clickbank products and paid two people on Fiverr 5.00 each to run the ads.
Both ads re-directly people to the affiliate offer.

They ended up with 0 sales. I do not know anything about their website.

They then paid another 10.00 for two more ads and sent the people to their own website. They got 0 sales again.

Obviously the marketer that answered the post knew the results would not be beneficial.

If we break down people into 4 sections:
A- Ready to buy the credit card is out
B- Wouldn't buy a Rolls Royce for a dollar
C- Impulse buyer will spend in and out of budget
D- Somebody on the fence

While the person that ran the ad doesn't have the Warrior Forum traffic behind him or Clickbank traffic with people looking for products/services/ every moment of the day, shouldn't there be enough people in column C or D that would covert to a few sales?

Backpage gets good traffic per month.

If any of you have statistical thoughts to share, psychological, and or general marketing formulas I would be interested to know why the bar was set so low (and turned out to be exactly correct)?

Thanks and enjoy the weekend.
#affiliate #backpage or craigslist #bust #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
    Craigslist works BIGTIME!... if you can keep up with all of their changes and keep yourself from getting ghosted and flagged.

    Backpage has way less traffic. It may work in some niches, but I haven't had much luck with it.

    On the other hand Craigslist can bring you massive traffic. I did about $40,000 in sales in one year for one product just from Craigslist traffic, and this wasn't back in the day. This is very recent, so Craigslist still works.

    If the person only experimented with $5 bucks and $10 bucks and then gave up and said Well that doesn't work, that's not very much testing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8802963].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
      Hi Andrew:

      Thanks for the reply and I hope you and family are doing well today.

      I have to disagree with you. While I can't speak for the person that posted the ads it did fall right into the range the marketer mentioned.

      There are baseline tests. Certainly if somebody posted 100 ads you have more data than 4 but when the 4 fit into the dollar amount that they were told they would make there is credence.

      While Backpage has less traffic than Craigslist (we all agree) they do have Top 1000 traffic in the world. Even if it were only USA the stats would be impressive.

      Is there posting software for Craigslist that would have let him put the ad in front of 100 large cities to see if the stats would change? Not being familiar with this I was told that it is harder to post multiple ads on Craigslist and I would be very curious if the data would be different.

      Thank you again for the reply.
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803006].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
        It could be that his ads were not getting any click throughs because the ads themselves weren't any good. Did he say what kind of Click throughs he was getting.

        100 ads in major cities on Backpage are worthless for this type of stuff in my opinion. You can go to Fiverr right now and get 100 ads on Backpage for $5 bucks and you'll most likely on get a couple visitors.

        100 ads in major cities on Craigslist on the other hand is like gold. If you do the ads right you will get thousands of visitors from 100 ads in major cities on Craigslist.

        There is no software that I no of. there used to be something called Clad or something like that but I never tried it. It was really expensive and I learned it had a hard learning curve.

        The best bet is outsourcing CL posts, but as anyone who has tried knows it is extremely hard to find good CL posters.

        Let me tell you that Craigslist ads bring in so much traffic and convert so well that if I could find anyone that could post 1000 ads a day I would pay them all day everyday.

        Craigslist Traffic is killer, but a major pain in the but because of ghosting.

        Backpage traffic is bunk and I've experimented with it alot as an alternative to Craigslist because Backpage is so much easier to post on and not get ghosted.

        Like I said you can go to Fiverr and pay $5 for 100 Backpage ads. Try to find someone that will post 100 Craigslist ads for $5, it's not going to happen. If someone could post 100 live Craigslist ads for $5 bucks I would immediately fly to where ever they lived and kiss there but because they would be responsible for making me a millionaire.






        Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

        Hi Andrew:

        Thanks for the reply and I hope you and family are doing well today.

        I have to disagree with you. While I can't speak for the person that posted the ads it did fall right into the range the marketer mentioned.

        There are baseline tests. Certainly if somebody posted 100 ads you have more data than 4 but when the 4 fit into the dollar amount that they were told they would make there is credence.

        While Backpage has less traffic than Craigslist (we all agree) they do have Top 1000 traffic in the world. Even if it were only USA the stats would be impressive.

        Is there posting software for Craigslist that would have let him put the ad in front of 100 large cities to see if the stats would change? Not being familiar with this I was told that it is harder to post multiple ads on Craigslist and I would be very curious if the data would be different.

        Thank you again for the reply.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803051].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
          What were the products the person was trying to promote?
          What niche?
          What category where they posting in?
          How many cities did they post in on Craigslist?
          What cities did they post in?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803057].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
            Hi Andrew:

            He did not post on Craigslist only Backpage because he wanted to see if it would be worth having 100 cities showing ads at the same time. With Craigslist the most he could find to post would be 8 at once.

            As for product he was promoting, I did not ask. Honestly if I knew I wouldn't mention because I don't want to make it look like I am taking sides either way. If I said it was ABC Whatever some would think it must be bad if it couldn't convert to one sale and others would say "Are you getting anything from mentioning the product?"

            I can tell you that he had a total of 93 people click the ads on the more popular Clickbank product and 19 on the one that was very popular but not nearly as the other.

            Cities the Fiverr person posted for him were the largest 100 American cities and the seller did provide proof to him with the date/time/ad shown live.

            Once again I want to be clear on something if you told me you made 1 billion dollars on Craigslist I am not doubting it and hope you make a zillion every moment as long as it is legal/ethical.

            My point is even with Backpage having less traffic there has to be reasons the statistics play out the way the marketer mentioned in the Warrior Post they would. A Top 1000 site is not that bad when you consider how many there are in the USA/World.

            I am looking for the explanation why he was not able to get the people that are impulsive/those sitting on the fence.

            As for the quality of the ads I can't say having not seen it.

            Thank you.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803083].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
              You say 93 people clicked the ad on one product...

              and 19 on the other.

              That's only 112 clicks.

              That's not really enough Clicks to conclude anything.

              I've burn't through thousands of clicks on FB ads, Google Adwords, Media Buys, etc without a single sale before, but I guarantee that all of those things work. You have to tweak the ads until they convert.

              That's like getting 112 clicks through adwords and zero sales and saying "Why Is Affiliate Marketing With Adwords Such a Bust?"

              I guarantee thousands of people have paid for thousands of clicks from all kinds of traffic sources and never made a sale. It doesn't mean that traffic source is bunk. It more likely means that person doesn't know what they are doing.

              112 Clicks isn't anything. Even if you had everything optimized only expect 1% conversions. This is cold traffic. It's not being sent from a list of buyers you have a relationship with, this isn't CPA. Cold traffic straight to a Clickbank offer and you're doing good with 1% conversions in my opinion.

              Which would mean 112 clicks equals 1 sale tops.

              I'll tell you straight up Backpage is bunk for this type of stuff. I don't care if it's a top 1000 site. I've tried all kinds of stuff on Backpage and the traffic just isn't there. Backpage is a Craigslist wannabe, and like somebody else said, backpage has it's use... "Escorts". Maybe it would be good for some kind of dating niche, I don't know.

              Craigslist is as good as gold. Massive traffic and it converts. You have to work at it. Not just post a couple ads. You have to find an offer that actually converts with the traffic source you are using. Without knowing what products he was promoting I don't know what to tell you.


















              Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

              Hi Andrew:

              He did not post on Craigslist only Backpage because he wanted to see if it would be worth having 100 cities showing ads at the same time. With Craigslist the most he could find to post would be 8 at once.

              As for product he was promoting, I did not ask. Honestly if I knew I wouldn't mention because I don't want to make it look like I am taking sides either way. If I said it was ABC Whatever some would think it must be bad if it couldn't convert to one sale and others would say "Are you getting anything from mentioning the product?"

              I can tell you that he had a total of 93 people click the ads on the more popular Clickbank product and 19 on the one that was very popular but not nearly as the other.

              Cities the Fiverr person posted for him were the largest 100 American cities and the seller did provide proof to him with the date/time/ad shown live.

              Once again I want to be clear on something if you told me you made 1 billion dollars on Craigslist I am not doubting it and hope you make a zillion every moment as long as it is legal/ethical.

              My point is even with Backpage having less traffic there has to be reasons the statistics play out the way the marketer mentioned in the Warrior Post they would. A Top 1000 site is not that bad when you consider how many there are in the USA/World.

              I am looking for the explanation why he was not able to get the people that are impulsive/those sitting on the fence.

              As for the quality of the ads I can't say having not seen it.

              Thank you.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803522].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                Hi Andrew:

                Again I have to disagree 1,000,000 percent with you. I have no side in this. I want you to make a million and the person as well.

                You can't leave out what is known as a baseline. Especially when the marketer told in advance 100 percent what would happen.

                I don't know if you are a sports fan I am hoping you are because this would make sense. A baseball executive sees me play in the minor leagues and tells the world I will hit .100 in the Major Leagues. I get called up to the Major Leagues and in my first 10 at Bats get 1 hit. I am hitting .100. They are right.

                Yes, it is not 100 or 500 at bats but the statistics are what the executive said.

                I am not saying that Adwords/Facebook or the Man In The Moon is bad or good.

                You also have to get out of your own comfort zone. It isn't about what you did with Craigslist or Backpage. It is the entire pie. The picture of others. The results he had are what was predicted.

                Behind that is statistical and psychological data.

                You even mentioned that Backpage wasn't good for you. That has been the question. Everyone here knows it isn't the same traffic as the Warrior Forum or being sent from the number 1 Clickbank seller.

                However you can not leave out of any statistical analysis compulsive spenders/on the fence spenders.

                In addition you are looking at only what the Clicks are. The big picture is not only the clicks received but with the traffic Backpage gets why didn't more click!!!!!!!!!!

                Thank you.
                Signature

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803550].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
                  Without:

                  1. Seeing the ad
                  2. Knowing what the product was

                  It's hard to know what to tell you.

                  I'll tell you this. Craigslist traffic is Awesome.

                  I can pretty much guarantee every major marketer would absolutely be utilizing Craigslist traffic if it wasn't for 2 things:

                  1. It's against Craigslist TOS to post in multiple major cities. You're only supposed to post locally. A lot of people don't want to go against the TOS.
                  2. It is a major pain to post multiple ads in multiple US cities. Craigslist has gotten really good at ghosting that stuff.

                  It's all about the offer. If he was promoting some big make money IM number 1 selling Clickbank product it's probability not going to sell. People on Craigslist aren't looking for that type of stuff. They don't even know what in the world that stuff is. That kinda stuff sales good to marketers.

                  Here are a couple niches that convert on Craigslist:

                  1. Dating . People are on Craigslist looking to hookup.
                  2. Work from Home. People are on Craigslist looking for jobs.

                  There is way more than that. Just look at the sections and be imaginative.

                  There is a "health and beauty" section.
                  There is a "video game" section.

                  and on and on.

                  There are tons of Clickbank products in all of these niches that you can promote as an affiliate.

                  If the person was pushing some IM stuff, yeah that may not convert. People aren't looking on Craigslist for "ways to get traffic to there websites".

                  I'll tell you from my own personal experience Craigslist traffic is massive, free, and extremely targeted.

                  Just look at some past threads about Craigslist here and you will see plenty of people talking about it.









                  Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

                  Hi Andrew:

                  Again I have to disagree 1,000,000 percent with you. I have no side in this. I want you to make a million and the person as well.

                  You can't leave out what is known as a baseline. Especially when the marketer told in advance 100 percent what would happen.

                  I don't know if you are a sports fan I am hoping you are because this would make sense. A baseball executive sees me play in the minor leagues and tells the world I will hit .100 in the Major Leagues. I get called up to the Major Leagues and in my first 10 at Bats get 1 hit. I am hitting .100. They are right.

                  Yes, it is not 100 or 500 at bats but the statistics are what the executive said.

                  I am not saying that Adwords/Facebook or the Man In The Moon is bad or good.

                  You also have to get out of your own comfort zone. It isn't about what you did with Craigslist or Backpage. It is the entire pie. The picture of others. The results he had are what was predicted.

                  Behind that is statistical and psychological data.

                  You even mentioned that Backpage wasn't good for you. That has been the question. Everyone here knows it isn't the same traffic as the Warrior Forum or being sent from the number 1 Clickbank seller.

                  However you can not leave out of any statistical analysis compulsive spenders/on the fence spenders.

                  In addition you are looking at only what the Clicks are. The big picture is not only the clicks received but with the traffic Backpage gets why didn't more click!!!!!!!!!!

                  Thank you.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803575].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
                    ...and I would have predicted the same thing as the marketer that you speak of. If somebody came to me and said they wanted to promote some Clickbank top seller on Craigslist or Backpage I would have said don't waste your time you're unlikely to get any sales.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803580].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                      Hi Andrew:

                      I am very confused. You keep bringing up Craigslist. I keep referring to Backpage.

                      Nobody is doubting your success or ability. I am seeking deeper information than somebody simply not liking a site. It is obvious how you feel about Backpage. That is not the question.

                      It is simply attempting to dissect why the original marketer was correct, why a site (even if you don't like it) with their traffic wouldn't get him more clicks.

                      That is what is attempted to be ascertained, not the value of Craigslist vs. the world.

                      Thank you.
                      Signature

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803589].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                        Hi Andrew:

                        Thanks again so much for the information to the thread. I clicked the Thank You button.
                        Signature

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803608].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Andrew Stevens
                        Hello Craig,

                        I'm sorry now I see. I was just talking about Craigslist because the title of the thread is "Why Is Affiliate Marketing With Backpage/Craigslist Such A Bust?"

                        In my opinion Backpage is a bust because it just doesn't get enough traffic. I just looked and it's Alexa Rank is 461 opposed to Craigslist which is 51. It doesn't seem like a big difference, but it's huge in terms of traffic.

                        Backpage may get millions of visitors, but it's spread out between millions of ads. Each ad doesn't get many visitors at all.

                        and like somebody said before and it's true, backpage gets all that traffic because of escorts. It's not a joke.

                        People go to craigslist to buy stuff and look for jobs.

                        People go to backpage for escorts. They are not looking for Clickbank products.


                        There is only really room for one BEST.

                        The best classified site is Craigslist. Competitors come, but can't compete so they have to find a niche for them selves.



                        Classified sites:

                        Craigslist = King
                        Backpage = Escorts



                        Auction Sites:

                        Ebay = King
                        Ioffer = Bootleg China stuff



                        Internet Marketing Forums:

                        Warrior Forum = King
                        ***Can't say here*** = Shady Stuff









                        Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

                        Hi Andrew:

                        I am very confused. You keep bringing up Craigslist. I keep referring to Backpage.

                        Nobody is doubting your success or ability. I am seeking deeper information than somebody simply not liking a site. It is obvious how you feel about Backpage. That is not the question.

                        It is simply attempting to dissect why the original marketer was correct, why a site (even if you don't like it) with their traffic wouldn't get him more clicks.

                        That is what is attempted to be ascertained, not the value of Craigslist vs. the world.

                        Thank you.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803629].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
                          Hi Andrew:

                          Thanks for the information during the day/night.

                          It may turn out to be what you mentioned that the type of traffic Backpage gets have their eyes on others things.

                          It is a shame that he was not able to have 100 ads posted on Craigslist at one time to see if he would have made any sales.

                          I checked something out after you mentioned the software that was available at one time for Craigslist. I went to Fiverr and not one seller (worldwide no less) offers to post more then 8 ads at a time on Craigslist. Backpage there are numerous folks that will post 100.

                          Not that I want Craigslist or any site full of spam but it would have been fascinating if he ran the same ad in the same cities at the same time on Backpage/Craigslist what the results would have been.

                          He obviously will not be looking at Backpage dot com any time soon.

                          May you and family have the best of holiday seasons,
                          Craig
                          Signature

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803654].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author UnkwnUsr
                        Originally Posted by Craig Fenton View Post

                        Hi Andrew:

                        I am very confused. You keep bringing up Craigslist. I keep referring to Backpage.

                        Nobody is doubting your success or ability. I am seeking deeper information than somebody simply not liking a site. It is obvious how you feel about Backpage. That is not the question.

                        It is simply attempting to dissect why the original marketer was correct, why a site (even if you don't like it) with their traffic wouldn't get him more clicks.

                        That is what is attempted to be ascertained, not the value of Craigslist vs. the world.

                        Thank you.
                        I think you need to look at why people visit backpage.com. Sure it gets lots of traffic but why are those people there? My guess is they aren't there to sign up for clickbank products or to make money online.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9423140].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author BillyBee
      Originally Posted by Andrew Stevens View Post

      Craigslist works BIGTIME!... if you can keep up with all of their changes and keep yourself from getting ghosted and flagged.
      Wow, this is news to me. What are the basics for posting on Craigslist? Would love to hear more about this! Thanks for any insights or recommendations on how to learn how to do this for my own info products.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803105].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
        Originally Posted by BillyBee View Post

        What are the basics for posting on Craigslist?
        Simple. Read their TOS, and then violate it. Hire some fiverr gigs, etc., to spam the crap outta it, and there ya go ...
        Signature
        One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

        - Seldom Seen Smith
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803265].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author aduttonater
    Craigslist works great. Try using hyper links, and adding color to your text via html code. You will find that your writing style will attract people.

    Backpage is not as great as Craigslist, unless you are looking for an escort.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803065].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
      Hi Aduttonator:

      Thanks for the reply.

      I am not the one that was posting. I was asking about somebody else the results that they were told they would have and how they were exactly what the marketer mentioned they would be.

      I am simply looking for the answers/statistics.

      Thank you for the reply.


      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803089].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ron Smith
    I have used both Craigslist and Backpage. I agree that Craigslist has better quality readers and yields much better results. Backpage was a total waste of time and effort. If you're looking for a date, apparently Backpage is an option. Better bring cash....
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803694].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
      Hi Ron:

      That is funny!

      It seems that Backpage was not the right way for the guy to have tried to market the affiliate products.

      Enjoy the weekend!
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8803729].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author creztor
    The problem is that Craigslist will work but no-one is obviously going to tell you HOW they are getting it to work. Post a plain affiliate kind of ad on CL and I agree you will earn nothing. I think for anyone starting out they should only use Craigslist and other classified sites if they have an actual product or service to sell. They should not touch it for anything affiliate related.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8804072].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author misterwalt
    Well I would agree that BackPage is not Craigslist and has a lot of catching up to do but it by no means should be written off. 3 years ago BackPage was nowhere to be seen and was just another classified ads site wannabe.

    However, over the last couple of years it has worked it's way up from the gutter to the top 500 sites in the world and will continue to climb over time. In my opinion it will never be Craigslist but it will always be a very close second.

    The more that Craigslist does to alienate people from posting ads the more people will move over to sites like BackPage which is why their traffic has grown rapidly over the last 18 months.

    Also since it is very difficult for marketers to get their ads on Craigslist unless they know what they are doing (not withstanding that constant flagging of ads) most have shifted over to BackPage. Hence a lot more competition for the same space that use to be spread out amongst Craigslist.

    So it makes sense why your ads aren't getting the traction necessary. Less traffic and more marketers in one place.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8808853].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author wordwizard
      So this thread is kind of old, but since I just came across it...

      I'm so frustrated by recommendations to use Craigslist. I don't really want to violate their TOS and so I never quite know what to do there.

      At least with Backpages you can run all the ads you want - and yes, they do cost money, but if it works, it's not too bad. I found some of my ads working okay (though most of them were to get signups that did not convert into sales).

      About Craigslist...

      The last product I bought (and it wasn't cheap) required me to utilize a whole bunch of VPS with lots of different IP addresses. That was very expensive, and a TON of work to keep track of it all. Wish I had returned it while there was time.

      Another CL product suggested I go to stores that sell cell phones and use their phones for CL verification. Sheesh. Tried that. It was VERY uncomfortable and also kind of fishy.

      It seems the Fiverr gigs are about the best thing going, but not cheap if I have to keep buying them.

      Any CL product I bought would have to WORK AND be within CL's TOS. Or it's a no-go. And there doesn't seem to be such a thing.

      Or is there? If you have one, please PM me
      Signature

      FREE Report: 5 Ways To Grow Your Affiliate Income

      Let Me Help You Sell: Sales Letters, Email Series, Pre-Sell Reports... PM me & we'll talk!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9422851].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Craig Fenton
        Hi Word Wizard:

        Thank you for such a detailed account of the Craigslist/Backpage journey.

        Believe me if I had any magic formula I would be happy to share.

        I hope you are able to find the perfect balance of software/information that is fairly priced and ethical and can lead to the profit you seek.
        Signature

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9423029].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Ray
    In my personal opinion (and the opinion's of some of my students) Craigslist can be a great asset... but it is a fickle beast.

    I have seen ad's that have been outsourced stick like nobodys business and get traffic.

    Then again I have seen people place 1 ad locally with their own account and it was ghosted in 15 mins.

    Go figure.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9424284].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author djhickory
    Gotta Disagree with most of you, especially andrew , craigslist is dead as hell
    they still get some traffic, but not like it used to be, i used to get 20 to 30 calls every day from CL,
    Here's the Breakdown
    They
    started charging for Real Estate Post
    Car Post
    then Deleted Links
    The BIG PICTURE rather you like it or not, when you elimante alot of the ad's being posted, you elimanate the traffic, not to mention the flagging civil wars , CL dont care anymore, They got Greedy , they could care less if there views dropped, becuase they know there site is #1, alot of Car dealer ship would spam the hell out of CL in Southern Cali, Real Estate too, what people don't understand, is that the spamming brought alot of traffic to the site,
    I have been Posting on CL since 2000 with Trackers in everyone of my ad's
    different cities, phone number and pics, always followed the rules untill i Came across a nut job that thinks he owns craigslist , and started flagging all his competition and me , and in my opion , he ruined it for every one, if you look at the date's of when i sent these emails, you'll see why they deleted the Links
    witch elimated , tracking , click threw, etc
    uploading the pics , just filtered all the spammers out , because they didnt clear the tags on the pics etc, burnt thre acounts , and all gave up, another reason CL IS DEAD
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9426736].message }}

Trending Topics