How to provide feedback on the way this section is being run?

Marcia,
This topic of articles was beaten to death in another section, that may be why they removed your post. I'm not entirely sure.

While I and others agreed the idea of the articles could be a good one, it was mainly (as you stated also), the quality of said articles. I'm guessing they're supposed to promote conversation.

I will add, that when a thread (a genuine one) gets removed, admin/mods should supply some kind of message, via pm or something, explaining the reason behind said removal. It would really go a long way if they interacted a little more and helped to clarify things.

~ Theresa

You can use the report button or post in the suggestion forum.

I'm not sure if these articles are FL provided or not. I know that they want to raise the quality and quantity of the discussion so maybe this is their way of trying to accomplish this goal.

You mentioned somewhere that you raised the level of discussion successfully in the past. Since you have experience doing this, maybe a PM to the admins or sharing your ideas in the suggestion forum would help them. I only see positives to having more quality discussion.

Mark

Hi,

We're sorry that the threads regarding the discussion of the Forum articles have been removed. As those threads have already resulted in personal attacks, bashing and flaming, we have decided to take them down to prevent things from getting out of hand.

So, "Flamekin," how or where may we respectfully express our intense dislike of the no-value articles being posted in the copywriting section?

And how may we get credible, honest answers about whether or not this is being encouraged by the management?

Long-time forum members really want to know this. And please understand that criticism and negative feedback do not necessarily amount to "personal attacks, bashing and flaming."

Marcia Yudkin

Since this thread is open for the moment, at least, I have some thoughts on the "article" problem. Not a bash - not a complaint - but ideas I've been thinking about as I've watched this forum become a free for all recently.

Experienced members don't post articles because it was not allowed in the past and there was no announcement of a change in policy. When someone does take the time to post a great method or tutorial threads - you have the same few jumping to say "self promoting" or argue or hijack the thread completely. Not worth the effort.

There are articles being posted by FL writers - well researched and written content articles - but....

1. The writers are unknown - no sig - no history here - no name - no way to ascertain if that person knows anything about the topic.

2. When you try to ask a question - you learn the writer doesn't know the subject - can't discuss it in detail - so what's the point?

3. They post 3-5 articles in a 30-60 minute time frame several days a week - a sign of a writer completing a gig.

The proposed "champion" idea last year went nowhere and I was glad to see that. It gave the impression of an "award" or "WF recognition" and we don't need more egos landing around here.

BUT - why can't the WF invite articles from those members here who know various methods and are experts in some sections?: A group of "by invitation" writers who could promote their sig while helping others here in a thread where mods quickly shut down any spammers, trolls or those trying to hijack the thread.

It could be different members every month or two - and they don't have to be WAMA level experts. Truth is - anyone who knows more than you do...can mentor you.

What if you invited 2-3 members to post about email marketing next month? From how to get started to advanced tactics....just one or two articles a week from each...not a barrage of "stuff".

Don't ask people to "apply" - choose/invite who post useful and helpful information on various sections. A side benefit might be more and better contributions overall. It takes the "ego" out of it.

Then REQUIRE civility and professional responses in the thread and crack down on those who ignore that rule. It won't take long for members to get the message and clean up their act.

Too often, an idea of "maybe we'll do this - what do you think" is then abandoned as a few take over and the arguments begin and nothing is accomplished. Instead- why not post a PLAN of what you are introducing (new ideas, whatever) - and ask for comments on the plan? Stay involved and don't let 1-2 people hijack the conversation.

I don't think articles or tutorials are "bad" but on a marketing forum....they have to be GOOD and written by those who know the subject matter.

The biggest mistake FL has made time and again is underestimating the willingness of members here to help improve this forum.

Or, why not just open the Articles section again, then everyone that wants to post articles can and those that want to read them can.

al

Exactly. What adds value here are questions and answers based on personal experience. Not research. Not isn't-this-cute opinions.

I cherish people's ignorance as much as people's authority when it is genuine.

Humbug and smugness are huge irritants and not helpful to anyone else.

Marcia Yudkin

My experience was somewhat different. I reported several articles by one member - all were plagiarized. Nothing happened and the person kept posting a couple articles each day.

First few articles were original - then several were carefully taken - a little here and a little there - from multiple sites online. When nothing happened, the next articles were purely copy/paste from other sites.

Even a few months ago a report of "plagiarized" would have thread removed quickly. I reported the articles - gave the links they were taken from - and moved on. A few days later I noticed more such articles - none removed - no action taken on the reports. A report of another stolen article where I asked "is this permissible now" was not answered. More articles were posted...

A question to help desk was quickly answered with "we do not condone plagiarism". Two days later the member was on a "ban" but the articles are still on the forum.

Feedback: My goal wasn't to force the WF to do something - not my business what is or is not permitted here - but to help keep it clean. My conclusion was "they didn't really want to know" - so I stopped checking for plagiarism. Not a complaint - fine with me either way.

All right, I have complained enough.

Look for my posts from now through the end of the month for an alternate approach to show the WF management what they can and should be encouraging instead of the stupid, no-value articles they've been flooding the forum with.

This approach is what landed me a half-time job paying $4,000 a month during the dot-com boom. No charge for this week-long demonstration, though.

Watch and learn. And please do likewise, if you'd like to help show WF the value of this alternative.

Marcia Yudkin