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PROPOSED FORUM RULE: Don't respond to threads unless you have experience in the topic

by JoeMack
101 replies
Hello All...

I love the Warrior Forum. It has opened up so many doorways for me, and was critical in going fro a 9 to 5er to living life on my own terms.

But one thing that DRIVES ME BONKERS is all the Warriors that feel that need to respond to a topic even though they have no experience in it.

For example, if someone asks a question about email marketing, people who have absolutely no experience with email marketing start chiming in.

They don't share what they know from experience. They regurgitate what they have read or have been told.

If you have never written an email followup sequence, don't give your opinions on it. If you haven't done PPC, don't feel like you need to explain why SEO traffic is better.

The people who are taking actions and experiencing results should be the ones starting the threads and providing useful and valuable information.

Too many people are throwing in their opinions without having any experience behind their words.

Theory is great. But experience pays the bills.

Now if someone asks a question about ANYTHING, just be sure that if you do respond, you respond as someone who has experience with that topic.

Much Success,

JoeMack
#experience #forum #respond #rule #threads #topic
  • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
    Hey Art...

    I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that too many people are basing their decisions on the opinions of others rather than on fact. Too many people are talking about things they have no right talking about.

    If a newbie comes to WF and says "I want to do article marketing", and a Warrior who has never done ANY article marketing tells them that article marketing doesn't work anymore because Google updated its algorithm.

    Article marketing has changed, but it isn't dead. And that was just one example. I see it happen over and over again. People expressing their opinions on topics that really don't have sufficient experience in.

    It's maddening.

    JoeMack
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    • Profile picture of the author herdfan2005
      With this now being a PAID forum, I think anybody should be ABLE to and WELCOME to reply to any questions asked whether it be fact or opinion. It is up to the OP to decide which information is best.

      I don't care if you have 10 years or 10 minutes experience, I want to know what you think.

      This sub forum is titled" Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum "

      Sounds to me people are looking for a discussion.....
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      • Profile picture of the author whland
        Originally Posted by herdfan2005 View Post

        I don't care if you have 10 years or 10 minutes experience, I want to know what you think.
        Same here.

        I don't think this is a good rule to put into place. Let people respond whether they have the experience or not.

        Chad
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    • Profile picture of the author Keith Boisvert
      Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

      Hey Art...

      I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that too many people are basing their decisions on the opinions of others rather than on fact. Too many people are talking about things they have no right talking about.

      If a newbie comes to WF and says "I want to do article marketing", and a Warrior who has never done ANY article marketing tells them that article marketing doesn't work anymore because Google updated its algorithm.

      Article marketing has changed, but it isn't dead. And that was just one example. I see it happen over and over again. People expressing their opinions on topics that really don't have sufficient experience in.

      It's maddening.

      JoeMack
      Maybe we can make an "opinion" button? Or better yet, a BullSh#t button?

      This way people can filter out responses based on the level of BS being expressed. Although I would think most posts would peg a 9 out of 10 on the ol BS meter (including mine)
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      • Profile picture of the author Victor Edson
        Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert View Post

        Or better yet, a BullSh#t button?
        Experience doesn't mean you know what you're doing.

        I see people who have been around for a really long time and have enormous post counts spouting off some ridiculousness all the time.

        Their 'experience' not doing it right doesn't help any more than the 'new' guy who just read a 10 page report and understands the concept better, does it?

        Knowledge isn't wisdom. And some people no matter how hard they can will ever achieve much of either, no matter how much experience they've got.. that's a sad fact of life.

        I worked construction with a 20 year bulldozing veteran who couldn't cut a road or complete anything to save his life. He got into a backhoe and couldn't dig a hole!!! But.. he had over 20 years experience so he was the person trusted to do the job, while myself and another much better operator stood around wondering wtf was this guy doing.

        Experience doesn't mean you get it. It doesn't mean you're good at it or that you could teach it. It only means you've done it, and you may or may not understand what you did.

        Knowledge is what people are seeking, not a resume.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

          Experience doesn't mean you know what you're doing.

          I see people who have been around for a really long time and have enormous post counts spouting off some ridiculousness all the time.

          Their 'experience' not doing it right doesn't help any more than the 'new' guy who just read a 10 page report and understands the concept better, does it?

          Knowledge isn't wisdom. And some people no matter how hard they can will ever achieve much of either, no matter how much experience they've got.. that's a sad fact of life.

          I worked construction with a 20 year bulldozing veteran who couldn't cut a road or complete anything to save his life. He got into a backhoe and couldn't dig a hole!!! But.. he had over 20 years experience so he was the person trusted to do the job, while myself and another much better operator stood around wondering wtf was this guy doing.

          Experience doesn't mean you get it. It doesn't mean you're good at it or that you could teach it. It only means you've done it, and you may or may not understand what you did.

          Knowledge is what people are seeking, not a resume.
          And yet your sig stresses "working smarter with an experienced marketer" - by your logic, wouldn't I be better off finding some newbie who just read a 10 page report?
          :p:rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Victor Edson
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            And yet your sig stresses "working smarter with an experienced marketer" - by your logic, wouldn't I be better off finding some newbie who just read a 10 page report?
            :p:rolleyes:
            And surprisingly, that sig has been one of my weakest performers of the week.

            By my logic.. you gotta look at the knowledge, understanding and capabilities of a person instead of basing your faith on them having experience. Experience doesn't prove above average knowledge or capabilities in the slightest... it only says... I've done it.

            I've seen countless situations in my life where common sense has beaten out experience and performed better.

            I'd work with someone who has common sense and applies it well over someone with years of experience any day. Maybe that's just my experience talking? But I've worked with so many poor performing 'experienced' people in my life I've learned to look past it and look at their results instead of their track record.

            Just because someone has 'done' something doesn't mean they can do it well or teach others to succeed at it. You gotta look at the big picture and not place so much faith in experience.. or even results, especially when it comes to online marketing.

            You gotta put your mind to work and process their information based on their information alone, and nothing else.

            A new guy could tell you something he read in a 10 page report that stuck in his mind that would make a bigger difference and help you more than what the guy who wrote the 10 page report would share with you. When you're learning, you have to take EVERYTHING at face value and process it on your own based on your own studies and take everything with a grain of salt. Experience doesn't mean jack if someone can't apply their knowledge wisely, and it means a lot less if they aren't sharing their knowledge.

            If experience trumps all, people with a higher post count and longer time here would be smarted than new people? Yet how many times have you seen someone with a 3 year old account and a sig file that says Affiliate Links Are Not Allowed. Aren't they 3 year veterans who know more than the newbie who read the rules and understood them? Which one you prefer to learn about forum marketing from? The veteran doing it wrong or the new guy who understands how it works?
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

              And surprisingly, that sig has been one of my weakest performers of the week.

              By my logic.. you gotta look at the knowledge, understanding and capabilities of a person instead of basing your faith on them having experience. Experience doesn't prove above average knowledge or capabilities in the slightest... it only says... I've done it.
              And just how are you supposed to evaluate the "knowledge, understanding and capabilities" of a person unless you have some kind of tangible demonstration? (AKA, demonstrated successful "experience")

              Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

              I've seen countless situations in my life where common sense has beaten out experience and performed better.
              Most of us have. Yet common sense is not something genetic - it springs from accumulated experience.

              Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

              I'd work with someone who has common sense and applies it well over someone with years of experience any day. Maybe that's just my experience talking? But I've worked with so many poor performing 'experienced' people in my life I've learned to look past it and look at their results instead of their track record.
              "Track record" does not equal "experience"??? :confused:

              Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

              Just because someone has 'done' something doesn't mean they can do it well or teach others to succeed at it. You gotta look at the big picture and not place so much faith in experience.. or even results, especially when it comes to online marketing.
              So I should just blindly trust what marketers tell me, since experience or demonstrated results don't mean anything? :confused:

              Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

              You gotta put your mind to work and process their information based on their information alone, and nothing else.

              A new guy could tell you something he read in a 10 page report that stuck in his mind that would make a bigger difference and help you more than what the guy who wrote the 10 page report would share with you. When you're learning, you have to take EVERYTHING at face value and process it on your own based on your own studies and take everything with a grain of salt. Experience doesn't mean jack if someone can't apply their knowledge wisely, and it means a lot less if they aren't sharing their knowledge.
              So which is it? Take things at face value, or take everything with a grain of salt? :confused:

              Originally Posted by Victor Edson View Post

              If experience trumps all, people with a higher post count and longer time here would be smarted than new people? Yet how many times have you seen someone with a 3 year old account and a sig file that says Affiliate Links Are Not Allowed. Aren't they 3 year veterans who know more than the newbie who read the rules and understood them? Which one you prefer to learn about forum marketing from? The veteran doing it wrong or the new guy who understands how it works?
              How do I know the new guy just hasn't managed to pee in the pool yet?

              As for the vet with the modified sig, I go back to something the great philosopher Ron White said.

              "You can't fix stupid."
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    • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
      Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

      Hey Art...

      I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that too many people are basing their decisions on the opinions of others rather than on fact. Too many people are talking about things they have no right talking about.

      JoeMack
      This is a public forum - not an "experts only" membership site. As such, take all responses with a grain of salt - including this one.

      If people need expert advice, then they can purchase expertise from dedicated experts offering the service.

      But you'll be surprised how much can be gleaned from all the "non-experts" out here on the WF. The WF is a great resource as it is - don't fix what ain't broke.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Good luck with that. It's not going to happen because people like to share their opinions, even if they're not an expert or think they might know the answer.

    Take good ole autoresponder threads (thank you Paul Myers for consolidating them into one super thread). Everyone chimes on who's the best, who has the best delivery rates, etc. but as someone who been testing autoresponders for years I think 1.2% of the time I'll read some accurate information, about 98.8% of the time the thread is full of misinformation.

    Some people just regurgitate what they've read in other threads or other forums, never checking for the facts. So, unfortunately, this forum, while it does contain good information at times, if full of erroneous or inaccurate information.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Good luck with being the new rule maker here at the forum too! :p

      Wait! I don't have experience in making new rules here...

      Wait!! Do you?

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    I agree to an extent. But it's never going to happen. Would be impossible to police.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JSProjects View Post

      I agree to an extent. But it's never going to happen. Would be impossible to police.
      This.

      I also agree to an extent and sympathise/support to an even greater extent.

      But it's not going to happen (and maybe rightly, really).

      You can't realistically get away from the principle of "caveat lector", in a forum of this size.

      Originally Posted by herdfan2005 View Post

      I don't care if you have 10 years or 10 minutes experience, I want to know what you think.
      Respectfully, I suggest that that attitude may be less than optimal for you, in your learning-curve, Herdfan. Much depends on developing the judgment to distinguish between people who know what they're talking about and people who are mindlessly regurgitating (and therefore propagating and perpetuating) the all-pervasive teachings of the Urban Myth School of Internet Marketing. The reality of the situation is that wanting to know what people with 10 minutes' experience think is pretty likely to hinder (or at least seriously delay) you, in the long run.

      I foresee this thread possibly either disappearing, or at the very least having its title amended by a moderator and perhaps moved to the Suggestions Forum, to make sure it doesn't mislead anyone into imagining that it actually is a "new forum rule".
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      • Profile picture of the author herdfan2005
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        This.



        Respectfully, I suggest that that attitude may be less than optimal for you, in your learning-curve, Herdfan. Much depends on developing the judgment to distinguish between people who know what they're talking about and people who are mindlessly regurgitating (and therefore propagating and perpetuating) the teachings of the Urban Myth School of Internet Marketing. The reality of the situation is that wanting to know what people with 10 minutes' experience think is pretty likely to hinder (or at least seriously delay) you, in the long run.

        I foresee this thread either disappearing, or at the very least having its title amended by a moderator and perhaps moved to the Suggestions Forum, to make sure it doesn't mislead anyone into imagining that it actually is a "new forum rule".
        Alexa,

        Thanks for you reply, your words are gold around here, that much I know. My thoughts. However, I do respectfully disagree. As a new member around here, I am very interested in what another beginners first 10 minutes were like with a new strategy, product, or test just as much as I am interested in someone who has been doing it for years.
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        • Profile picture of the author glennshep
          Originally Posted by herdfan2005 View Post

          As a new member around here, I am very interested in what another beginners first 10 minutes were like with a new strategy, product, or test just as much as I am interested in someone who has been doing it for years.
          I agree with this and think that without that free sharing of information and opinions the forum would become a very boring place.

          However, I think what the OP is getting at is the people who chirp in to a discussion to offer information or advice on something when they clearly don't know what they're talking about, thus potentially misleading some members who view the answer as authoritative.

          I do agree that if you don't know anything about a subject then you shouldn't chime in and give the impression that you do. But then there are times when you might be able to find some information that you believe may help the person asking the question and you simply wish to relay that info. In those instances, though, it would make sense to qualify the post with the disclaimer that you are simply relaying the info you've found rather than speaking from your own experience.

          Also there may be times when someone may simply wish to contribute and offer their opinion and, depending on the subject under discussion, that's not necessarily a bad thing. After all, someone may have 10 years experience in a given field and yet be anything but an expert but then someone else who has little experience may nail the point under discussion or offer a valuable insight that no-one else has considered. And even if a person doesn't have experience in one subject, they may have experience in another area that gives them a certain insight into the subject being discussed.

          So it's not as cut and dry as 'people shouldn't respond if they don't have experience', but equally it is very annoying when people try to give the impression that they know about something that they don't, especially when the response they give could cause confusion or be downright misleading. Unfortunately, this is always going to happen and it just means that members need to be selective about who/what they pay attention to and always make sure that they ascertain the validity of any info they're given.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        The number 1 personal development characteristic that you can learn from the Warrior Forum is discernment.


        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


        Much depends on developing the judgment to distinguish between people who know what they're talking about and people who are mindlessly regurgitating (and therefore propagating and perpetuating) the all-pervasive teachings of the Urban Myth School of Internet Marketing.
        Bold is mine.

        However, this development is optional and at your discretion.

        Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author datingworld
    Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

    Hello All...
    The people who are taking actions and experiencing results should be the ones starting the threads and providing useful and valuable information.
    This is completely irrelevant... and its not going to happen...

    If you look at the forum threads, more than 98% of the threads started here are to ask information and not to share information....

    People come to this forum to learn ... and the easiest way to learn is to ask...
    if we don't ask how would we learn...?

    If your rule allow members only to start threads when they take actions and have experience in somehting, then I am afraid this forum isnt a very good place for them... such members will be better to have their own blogs to share their experiences...

    this is a discussion forum where people are free to ask what they want to ask and others are free to respond according to their knowledge....
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    • Profile picture of the author mert
      Originally Posted by datingworld View Post

      This is completely irrelevant... and its not going to happen...

      If you look at the forum threads, more than 98% of the threads started here are to ask information and not to share information....

      People come to this forum to learn ... and the easiest way to learn is to ask...
      if we don't ask how would we learn...?

      If your rule allow members only to start threads when they take actions and have experience in somehting, then I am afraid this forum isnt a very good place for them... such members will be better to have their own blogs to share their experiences...

      this is a discussion forum where people are free to ask what they want to ask and others are free to respond according to their knowledge....
      Datingworld,
      I agree with you. Forum, as I think, is for everybody's concerns. Either experienced or not, all must be guven a chance to air out. Who knows? Their thoughts nay be valuable for those with experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author pdrs
    lolz and while we're at it - could everyone on the internet please only post relevant and insightful comments on youtube, and please everyone on my facebook feed stop fishing for compliments, oh and all you damned wordpress comment spammers, can we stop that too?
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
      Originally Posted by pdrs View Post

      lolz and while we're at it - could everyone on the internet please only post relevant and insightful comments on youtube, and please everyone on my facebook feed stop fishing for compliments, oh and all you damned wordpress comment spammers, can we stop that too?

      You Got Me.


      Obviously I want people to be comfortable expressing their opinion.

      And yes, the "NEW FORUM RULE" was a bit much.


      I just find that the threads would be "cleaner" if the responses to questions were based on fact rather than heresay. I understand that we all want to help each other out, that we all want to see each other succeed, but many times people "help" by giving out information that isn't entirely accurate on a subject that the person really doesn't have any real world experience in.


      I know, I am asking for the impossible.

      And I know I'm being idealistic.

      Just kicking around the idea in my head. It bounced around enough to cause me to start this thread.

      Experience is golden. Experience is like knowledge on fire. When you experience something, you learn so many lessons simultaneously. I love case studies. I LOVE people that not only take action, but then they go and share that experience with me. Those people I love.


      JoeMack
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        And yes, the "NEW FORUM RULE" was a bit much.
        I've changed "new" to "proposed."

        Not going to happen. There is little sense creating a rule that is impossible to enforce. And yes, that comment is based on actual experience.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          I've changed "new" to "proposed."

          Not going to happen. There is little sense creating a rule that is impossible to enforce. And yes, that comment is based on actual experience.


          Paul
          LOL. I know, Paul.

          And I will say (since you're "here") that I truly appreciate the time and work you put into keeping the Warrior Forum such a great place to express ideas and develop relationships.


          JoeMack
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          • Profile picture of the author TheEye
            The big problem is to define who is experienced.

            In the off line world this is usually somebody that has been doing the job for over ten years. Some occupations you can change that to 20 years.

            Is somebody that has been doing something for less than ten years still a newbie?

            A lot of the old time marketers with 30+ years experience would probably consider them to be.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Joe,
            And I will say (since you're "here") that I truly appreciate the time and work you put into keeping the Warrior Forum such a great place to express ideas and develop relationships.
            On behalf of the dozen+ "official" moderators and the hundred or so people who report problems on a regular basis... You're welcome.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author AlfredKo
              Remove all our post counts. That will solve the problem, partially.

              Some people are amazing. They can talk without carrying any messages at all.
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            • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Urban Myth School of Internet Marketing

              An idea for my next website. Just scrape content from warrior forum and a couple of other forums and it could be a big hit.
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              ...Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just set there.
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            • Profile picture of the author Ian Jackson
              A bit like politicians really... "Secretary of State for ........." (fill in the gap)

              Yeah right, WE VOTE for most of these people, but they have likely never held a position working in the field pertaining to the nature of their office in their lives !! :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author bwh1
      Originally Posted by pdrs View Post

      lolz and while we're at it - could everyone on the internet please only post relevant and insightful comments on youtube, and please everyone on my facebook feed stop fishing for compliments, oh and all you damned wordpress comment spammers, can we stop that too?
      Exactly..

      all newbies and who's not making at least 5k a month, please only WATCH AND READ or you will gt banned.

      LOL, that is a bit too much police, isn't it.

      Maybe you feel better in a monthly paid niche Forum, but not in here man.

      G.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Burritt
    Banned
    Love to see the moderator who'd sign up for that task
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    ......in a perfect world.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheMarketingLord
      Originally Posted by John Romaine View Post

      ......in a perfect world.
      This, plus... this is the forum, everyone should be able to talk freely here. If you are interested in a certain aspect of IM, you can just ask your questions on the subforums (such as the CPA or Adsense subforum) - you will definitely receive answers from experienced 'players' in that field there.

      Just my 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    You will never know who has experience in something and who doesn't.

    Joe, why don't you open up your own forum and make that rule. That would solve your problem or thoughts.
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    • Profile picture of the author candoit2
      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      You will never know who has experience in something and who doesn't.

      Joe, why don't you open up your own forum and make that rule. That would solve your problem or thoughts.
      If you know anything about the topic it is easy to spot who knows what they are talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    The problem is in the definition of experience.

    For example, for all we know a poster's experience in email marketing includes scraping emails off of forums and blogs, buying email names, sending phishing emails, selling the email addresses they scrape or buy from others, etc.

    Just because this guy makes money with email marketing do you want to learn from him and have him teach the newbies?

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I can see the WSOs already. Step right up ladies and gentlemen. Get yer certified, bonafide, guaranteed genuine "Topic Experience" credentials here. Comes in a foil certificate suitable for framing.

    Topics Include:

    Solo Ads
    Authority Sites
    SEO
    PPC
    Web Design
    Article Writing
    List Building
    Forum Marketing

    :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      While I realize this is neither feasible nor enforceable, I have to admit that it would be lovely were it to happen. Look at all the stupid things some people post, trying to pose as an expert, when they clearly know nothing about it.

      Then again, this is human nature to a certain degree. It's not just in the IM arena, as I see it again and again on forums in other niches.

      It's better to educate the new members so that they realize that ANYONE can post without any evidence that they have two brain cells to rub together.
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  • Profile picture of the author bluecoyotemedia
    Joe Mack


    you seem to get some nice replies from some good people. I understand your point of view but unfortunately this is the warrior forum which caters to a broad area of opinions.

    one of the ways although its not perfect is to belong to a high priced private forum

    remember before I get trashed this is NOT 100% fool proof but it does have merit.

    for example when stompernet first launched it was $795 per month

    boy there was a period of time where there were never a group of high end top level marketers in one space.

    anydy jenkins
    brad fallon
    dan thies
    etc

    it was an exciting time and my brain was on fire and I did very well in the ecommerce space. and even sold my first site for mid 6 figure income

    the magic lasted about 1 to 2 years then it went all downhill but i bailed

    now I belong to a few private forums

    and I have to say if you want a better quality of marketers that are making 6 figure incomes you have to search them out

    not in these forums.. because there is too much to sift thru which wastes to much time. and most of the vendors that sell wso's just make money selling WSO's

    IMgrind is decent

    I am part of the december 11 group less than 200 people.. very.. very good these guys have a portfolio of private tools that are NOT in the marketplace.


    . they have a TEAM ninja php coders on staff full time. the tools are all hosted on private dedicated severs and only members get access.

    In a mastermind we discuss what if scenario's

    like what if we had a software that did this..

    and did that???

    and then the head of programming makes it so and fast forward 16 months later .. there are a set of Tools that are un matched in the marketplace


    this is unheard of in public forums. ( can you imagine dealing with members that dont have any other motive of selling you something.. but share and collaboration)

    there is some talent.. but they all get caught up in the big launch

    then they launch for $7 bucks LOL

    how the heck do you expect long term support for a plug in that cost $7 bucks

    so what happens

    the product developers is always in coming up with new plugins and software products.. and many even abandon the projects.

    anyway.. this is coming from my personal real world experience so I think this can qualify me to comment on this topic.

    pura vida

    Eddie

    PS the warrior forum is more like a facebook for Imers.. a time suck..







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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Blades
      This isn't Burger King, you can't have it your way :p

      There is no way to enforce such a rule, unless you live in North Korea. People could just run with the opinions found here, or just take it with a grain of salt
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  • Profile picture of the author Auctiondebteliminator
    How would you get NEW members to participate?

    After all - wouldn't you need EXPERIENCE posting in the forum to post ---- in the forum?!

    Wicka-POW!

    Universe implosion.
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
      Originally Posted by Auctiondebteliminator View Post

      How would you get NEW members to participate?

      After all - wouldn't you need EXPERIENCE posting in the forum to post ---- in the forum?!

      Wicka-POW!

      Universe implosion.
      You can be new to the Warrior Forum and still be experienced in anything relating to internet marketing. Post count, even join date, don't have any relation on how experienced a Warrior is in a specific topic.

      I love the people who think that I am supporting people not asking questions. Obviously this wasn't what I was talking about.

      And how do I know if someone is experienced or not in a particular topic? When you read a response to email marketing by someone with little to no experience in email marketing, it is very apparent to everyone but the newbie.

      And for the those that think that I was actually saying that there should be an enforceable rule, come on. This thread is simply a device to open up the discussion of Warriors giving out misinformation to the inexperienced.

      Just because you READ about the knowledge and skills that it takes to run a successful online venture doesn't mean that you really know how to succeed with an online venture.

      Look, I don't really care one way or another. I have been around for a while so its easier for me to tell what's advice from someone that has actually done it and someone that hasn't.

      My annoyance isn't at issue. What's the real issue is all the bad information that newbies are getting that concerns me. IM is difficult enough, and then when you add to that all the misguided and blatantly wrong info being thrown around here, it makes it seemingly impossible for most newbies.

      JoeMack
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      • Profile picture of the author Auctiondebteliminator
        Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

        You can be new to the Warrior Forum and still be experienced in anything relating to internet marketing. Post count, even join date, don't have any relation on how experienced a Warrior is in a specific topic.

        I love the people who think that I am supporting people not asking questions. Obviously this wasn't what I was talking about.

        And how do I know if someone is experienced or not in a particular topic? When you read a response to email marketing by someone with little to no experience in email marketing, it is very apparent to everyone but the newbie.

        And for the those that think that I was actually saying that there should be an enforceable rule, come on. This thread is simply a device to open up the discussion of Warriors giving out misinformation to the inexperienced.

        Just because you READ about the knowledge and skills that it takes to run a successful online venture doesn't mean that you really know how to succeed with an online venture.

        Look, I don't really care one way or another. I have been around for a while so its easier for me to tell what's advice from someone that has actually done it and someone that hasn't.

        My annoyance isn't at issue. What's the real issue is all the bad information that newbies are getting that concerns me. IM is difficult enough, and then when you add to that all the misguided and blatantly wrong info being thrown around here.

        JoeMack

        JoeMack

        I won't attempt to explain my joke.

        Some people's 'sarcastometers' might be permanently broken.

        It's okay. You can stay angry. I'll stay here laughing at my own joke believing I'm still super clever. Perhaps I'll even look around to see if anyone else got it and might want to join in some raucous laughter.

        But I'd settle for a rumbling chuckle.
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      • Profile picture of the author DATruk
        The newbie also has to learn to decipher sh#* from bad butter. That would be a part of teaching them to fish.

        I have found that bad info is pretty quickly dismembered in the paid forums like the warroom. I don't have enough experience in the open forums to comment.

        My advice to newbies is generally "every webpage is trying to sell you something", "start to think like an online marketer", and "follow the money". The very first lesson Has To Be THINK FOR YOURSELF!

        As for deciding what is really worthy, that will only happen when I am elected...

        Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

        You can be new to the Warrior Forum and still be experienced in anything relating to internet marketing. Post count, even join date, don't have any relation on how experienced a Warrior is in a specific topic.

        I love the people who think that I am supporting people not asking questions. Obviously this wasn't what I was talking about.

        And how do I know if someone is experienced or not in a particular topic? When you read a response to email marketing by someone with little to no experience in email marketing, it is very apparent to everyone but the newbie.

        And for the those that think that I was actually saying that there should be an enforceable rule, come on. This thread is simply a device to open up the discussion of Warriors giving out misinformation to the inexperienced.

        Just because you READ about the knowledge and skills that it takes to run a successful online venture doesn't mean that you really know how to succeed with an online venture.

        Look, I don't really care one way or another. I have been around for a while so its easier for me to tell what's advice from someone that has actually done it and someone that hasn't.

        My annoyance isn't at issue. What's the real issue is all the bad information that newbies are getting that concerns me. IM is difficult enough, and then when you add to that all the misguided and blatantly wrong info being thrown around here, it makes it seemingly impossible for most newbies.

        JoeMack
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Joe I understand your frustration.

    But in these days of fake screenshots, bought testimonials, JV partners who've never seen or used the product, pen names, etc. the whole industry is this way and there's really no way to prove anything.

    One person reads a book and says it's rehashed garbage - (the author doesn't know what he's doing or is too lazy to do a good job) and another sees gold. Which one is right? Both are.

    And they both will be and this problem will continue until you have licensed CPA audits, background checks from reputable companies, DNA samples to prove identity, forced real address and phone number disclosure, etc.

    You ready for that?

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author bretski
      I think that many of the questions that newbies have could be answered with "why don't you try it and see" and experience is the best teacher. I do agree that much of the information vomited out of people's mouths is based upon what they've heard, been told or learned from limited experience but there is this mantra that is taught that you should appear to be an expert. That is often achieved here on this forum by posting and forcing your opinion upon others. There's nothing wrong with that as long as readers know how to differentiate true knowledge based upon experience from showmanship and a lot of smoke and mirrors. I think that many readers would be surprised by the fact that many of those that are touted as experts and who regularly express their opinion live in Mom's basement surviving off of Ramen noodles.

      That being said, there are also those that freely give out solid gold advice here on this forum who speak from experience (what up, Lexy). It's up to the reader to figure out what is what, who is who and then go experiment on their own. It makes the good advice and good people more valuable, I think.
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      • Profile picture of the author LynnM
        Don't respond to threads unless you have experience in the topic...

        ...or have read the previous posts. If only.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    I love the Warrior Forum. It has opened up so many doorways for me, and was critical in going fro a 9 to 5er to living life on my own terms.

    But one thing that DRIVES ME BONKERS is all the Warriors that feel that need to respond to a topic even though they have no experience in it.


    I understand your point of view and I believe that it would really be better if only those who know the right answers would speak in many threads, while those who are ignorant should admit their ignorance and clearly explain that they are giving their opinion even though they are not experts, but this forum is a marketing tool for many people.

    They want to just ‘write something’ and have the chance to promote their signature.









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    • Profile picture of the author TheEye
      Originally Posted by clever7 View Post



      I understand your point of view and I believe that it would really be better if only those who know the right answers would speak in many threads, while those who are ignorant should admit their ignorance and clearly explain that they are giving their opinion even though they are not experts, but this forum is a marketing tool for many people.

      They want to just 'write something' and have the chance to promote their signature.
      There is no one right answer.

      The answer that is right will differ depending on who is reading the posts and what they need.

      This search for the one "right answer" is what drives the shiny object syndrome. The belief that there is a guru living on top of a mountain that knows everything.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    There is no one right answer.

    The answer that is right will differ depending on who is reading the posts and what they need.

    This search for the one "right answer" is what drives the shiny object syndrome. The belief that there is a guru living on top of a mountain that knows everything.


    Of course, what is right or wrong is a subjective matter. This is why we discuss many things, trying to find out which answers really are the best ones.

    Experts usually give you the right answers because they know what they are talking about; they are not like ignorant people. For example, when Alexa explains her point of view we all know that she is probably right because she is an expert. However, there are other experts who may be right too, even though their point of view is totally different because our reality is complex. What works in some niches doesn't work in different ones, there are many different ways to solve a problem, etc.

    I was just saying that it would really be better if only the experts would answer someone’s questions when this person has a problem, and that those who were merely giving their opinion even though they are not experts should mention this fact.

    However, this forum is a marketing tool.

    Even though many people have nothing substantial to add to the discussion, they write their opinion as if they were experts because this is what they want to show to the newbies who are reading a thread. They only want to have the chance to expose their signature and pretend to be internet marketing experts, because they want to convince many newbies to click on their links.
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Excellent idea in theory, (like everyone said), but it would shut down the forum I think!

    You're 100% right in that anyone can chime in and explain their "point of view" but few seem to have any real knowledge or experience.

    But it's for this very reason that paid private forums exist.

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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    That's just the nature of forums. We can't make it a "perfect" forum just like we can't make the world perfect. People are always giving advice in real life who really shouldn't be saying anything about the subject, so we aren't really going to make an open forum different than real life, in my opinion.

    It's a good idea as there is lots of useless advice on this forum, let's just be real.

    Probably over 50% of the posts you will read on a topic would have been better left unsaid but that's just life. You have to try and discern what's real and what's BS.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    I think a rule like this would shut down the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    Wow, sounds like a dictatorship to me.

    In fact it goes against most things online.

    Coming to this forum and posting is not JOB, it's not like we get paid for it. Its something people do for all sorts of reasons and im happy to admit I have been baked green about 100 times while posting here and drunk off my ass many other times, why? Because im at home chilling out and frankly I dont need yet more rules, especially stupid one.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Matt,
      I wonder how how many new forum rules have been made in the past 3 years, and out of these how many of them were tried and rejected ?
      Not many have been put in place and then removed in that time. We're pretty cautious about making new rules, as none of us like them. Plus, by the time we hit the past 3 years, we had enough experience to have a good idea of the positive and negative impacts that would arise.

      We get a lot of suggestions for new rules, and people think we ignore them. The reality is, this place has been around for 16 years, and at least 4 of the mods have been members since the first year. We've seen most suggestions many, many times over that period. There just aren't that many ideas that are really all that "new." When we see a new one, we think about it. If the positives significantly outweigh the negatives, we'll usually add it.

      Some suggestions are unduly punitive to legitimate members. Most fall somewhere on the range from impractical to impossible. Still, we get one or two a year that work, and really make a difference. And they usually come from discussions like this. The initial idea isn't necessarily going to work, but it might spark something more practical that we haven't yet thought of.


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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        I think some people get a kick out of destroying people who are just answering a question. At what point do we decide who is credible enough to answer a question?

        I submit you can't decide that at any level. So you cannot institute a rule like this.
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      • Profile picture of the author JoeMack
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


        Some suggestions are unduly punitive to legitimate members. Most fall somewhere on the range from impractical to impossible. Still, we get one or two a year that work, and really make a difference. And they usually come from discussions like this. The initial idea isn't necessarily going to work, but it might spark something more practical that we haven't yet thought of.


        Paul

        That was exactly my point in starting this thread. Did I really think that a rule would be enacted that would ensure that only those with experience in a particular topic could express their point of view? Obviously not. It was just a way of bringing out some healthy debate.

        The Warrior Forum isn't perfect, and never will be. No forum can. But that doesn't mean that we can't do things to make it better.

        And one issue that I see a lot is people with little experience telling those with even less experience what to do.

        Experience IS the best teacher and I would hope that all newbies would act on a little bit of knowledge that is actually correct and effective, rather than them spinning their wheels trying out everything because they don't know what is true or not.

        Even if this thread causes just one Warrior to think twice before posting a response he knows nothing about, then this thread would have been beneficial.

        The bad info doesn't just affect the newbie that posted the question. It affects every newbie that reads that thread going forward weeks, months, even years into the future.

        Do I expect a rule change? Definitely not. The Mods are busy enough keeping this place as great as it is. What I do hope to accomplish is that Warriors will hold back comments in topics that they know little about, or that other Warriors will chime in when someone posts something so obviously wrong. A b#llsh&t meter would be great.

        Make no mistake. I love the Warrior Forum. It is by far the best resource when it comes to internet marketing in all its wonderful facets.

        Much Success,

        JoeMack
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  • Profile picture of the author ArielT
    I don't like the idea.

    Not always, but I think there are some cases in which the really experts come to respond when seeing other(s) have not given a good response and feel motivate to respond

    Anyway many people (include me) appreciate all comments . Although of course that doesn't mean there is a need to thank all, just the useful ones, that would be a guide
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  • Profile picture of the author LastingLifeSuccess
    Hey there, JoMack!

    I'm in the camp that allows for the bigger mix of replies no matter who they are from.

    It's like we all have to take responsibility for our actions including the errors we might make consuming WF posts.

    And, I am pretty sure "Caveat emptor" is still true for us all no matter what we buy or buy into. It'll all work its way out.

    Good thought provoking Thread, JoeMack! Thanks. . .
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  • Profile picture of the author aizaku
    everything is dandy, leave it as it is :-)

    unless you don't know what you are talking about, then you should dive right in.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by aizaku View Post

      everything is dandy, leave it as it is :-)

      unless you don't know what you are talking about, then you should dive right in.
      yup I agree with this, the warrior forum in the old days was good, where you could just come here, get help, and leave and go do it. Nowadays its different there are people that come to fight, cuss and tell lots of stuff that are unrelated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt@viewswin
    I like to see peoples nuttyness and opinions based on nothing. It creates validity in my own opinions and nuttyness!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post


      My annoyance isn't at issue. What's the real issue is all the bad information that newbies are getting that concerns me. IM is difficult enough, and then when you add to that all the misguided and blatantly wrong info being thrown around here, it makes it seemingly impossible for most newbies.

      JoeMack
      You want all correct answers? Ahh, well then the forum would need to start paying me for posting.

      lol

      Did you ever think about how all the random information leads to people actually having to go and buy a product to get more solid answers?

      Also a mix of answers can actually cause a bit of a stir in a thread - and opportunity for the real experts to shine.

      Things might get a bit too textbook here if we had all the right answers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon19811
    I have lost more money that I have made in IM, so take my opinion as a grain of salt. I agree that it would be nice if a rule was implemented that ensured only good information was posted on the forum. However, such a rule is not practical. Everything is theory until it is applied. People who are successful are that way because they implemented a theory of theirs and proved it successful. Who would be able to implement the rule anyhow? Practically, nobody would be qualified to speak for another persons experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by Brandon19811 View Post

      Everything is theory until it is applied.
      This is the important part to remember.

      People send their children off to school and university each and every day of the week to learn theory being taught to them by people who have just learnt that theory and hardly ever put it into practice.

      Most teachers do not practice what they preach on the side. If your maths teacher was such a great mathematician then he would be in a much higher paying job than a school teacher. If your science teacher was such a great scientist then he would be out trying to cure cancer or other diseases.

      There are a LOT of people out there who teach nothing more than theory. But without these people in the world information would not spread as quickly as it does nowadays. These theory regurgitators do play an important role in this world in relaying information to a much wider audience.

      We would all know much less than we do now if it were not for all these people who simply teach theory and never implement it themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author Fred Young
        Unfortunately, there are people on this forum who are only looking to build their post count and get exposure for their signatures.

        Not putting anybody down, it's just my observation.
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        • Profile picture of the author katherineolga
          Originally Posted by Fred Young View Post

          Unfortunately, there are people on this forum who are only looking to build their post count and get exposure for their signatures.

          Not putting anybody down, it's just my observation.
          The ideal situation is for people like me (newbies) to build their post counts while trying to contribute in a meaningful way. Then again, it is a question of motives. I am basically here to change my financial situation and learn from people much wiser than I on the ways of making money on the internet.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by WillR View Post


        ... theory being taught ... by people who have just learnt that theory and hardly ever put it into practice.
        Sounds like a good portion of the WSOs being sold.... :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryPrice
    It debases the value you can take from a post if you cannot discern whether it's based on proven real-world actions or just an idea/opinion on formed or heard but has not tested.

    If I went to a forum seeking advice on a health situation and people were sharing things they thought may work, based on learned knowledge that had not been tested in the real world, I'd be using their advice with a higher risk of failure than if these were people like doctors who had practiced the things they were advised and seen success.

    Pretty soon I'd stop using the forum.

    The issue is not the authority to voice one's opinion, it's making sure the reader can discern which are based on proven, field-tested stuff and which are not. I would suggest that if you do not have first hand experience in something, make sure you say so and cite what you're basing you opinion on... For example, "According to a PEW study I read..." or, "In Frank Kern's system, he says..." so it is clear the source of the advice, and then we can assess whether to follow it better, weighing it appropriately.

    Or it will become our duty to as every single poster, 'where did you hear that?' about every post. Which would bog down discussion, don't you think? But that's still better than taking someone's untested advice and losing $10,000 testing what they've bet $0 on testing themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author BarryPrice
    And that's coming from a newbie.

    Btw, I don't think it should be a rule, but it should be etiquette that all newbs are informed they must mention if they have no experience with what info they are passing along, to say so and say what they base the advice on.
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    I think the OP's suggestion is clearly unenforceable, but I also think his sentiment rings true for many of us:

    How can we highlight comments/posts from people who clearly know what they're talking about?

    I don't run a forum or community, but had a few thoughts I'd like to share that may or may not work here:

    Curated Content - Have a curated section of the forum where Mods that are experts in the niche go through and select the post that provide the most value. They can clear out or delete all of the +1 and "Me too" posts and copy it to that sub-forum. They can leave a link in the original post to the ORIGINAL (unedited) thread so that people can review it, comment, etc.

    Reddit-Style Section - Threads can be upvoted, downvoted, etc. It's a bit of a popularity content and could be gamed of course...but let the community regulate themselves. A radical change for the WF...probably best to keep in one sub-forum to test and see the response first.
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  • Profile picture of the author vtotheyouknow
    It's really on US as members to hold people accountable when they write something on the forum. Next time somebody writes something, simply say "prove it". Or, did you get that out of the sky or do you actually have any experience whatsoever, or are you just trying to raise your post count? If people fear being exposed as BSers, there will be a lot less of it. It's on us...
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

    They regurgitate what they have read or have been told.
    Welcome to the invention of forum sigs.

    They're not posting because they think they know something they read in an outdated ebook written by a half wit, they're posting to drop a backlink or spam other forum members with whatever it is they have to sell.

    What this forum needs is a No Thanks button.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by BarryPrice View Post

      And that's coming from a newbie.

      Btw, I don't think it should be a rule, but it should be etiquette that all newbs are informed they must mention if they have no experience with what info they are passing along, to say so and say what they base the advice on.
      I've been around too long to qualify as a "newbie", but there are many subjects in which I'm less than expert. When I comment on those, it's often because of related experience rather than direct. I try to identify those comments and give some context and backstory to my reasoning.

      So good etiquette would not apply solely to 'newbs', but to everybody.

      Originally Posted by vtotheyouknow View Post

      It's really on US as members to hold people accountable when they write something on the forum. Next time somebody writes something, simply say "prove it". Or, did you get that out of the sky or do you actually have any experience whatsoever, or are you just trying to raise your post count? If people fear being exposed as BSers, there will be a lot less of it. It's on us...
      I can already give you the stock response to the "prove it" challenge.

      "I don't have to prove anything to you, and I'm not going to open my books to prove anything to anyone on a public forum."

      "You don't know me, so how dare you call me out?"

      Some of the worst BSers we've had around here seemed to relish that type of callout so they could escalate a lively discussion to a flame war.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      What this forum needs is a No Thanks button.
      Very much in keeping with a post I made four years ago
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...s-buttton.html


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  • Profile picture of the author mrgoe
    Let me ask you this: How can you know how experienced you really are on a subject ? SEO, IM everything online related can change within a day you can never be an expert.
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  • Profile picture of the author Angle Warrior
    Your not suggesting that some of the information on the forum could be misleading?
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  • Profile picture of the author Danny Cutts
    Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

    Hello All...

    I love the Warrior Forum. It has opened up so many doorways for me, and was critical in going fro a 9 to 5er to living life on my own terms.

    But one thing that DRIVES ME BONKERS is all the Warriors that feel that need to respond to a topic even though they have no experience in it.

    For example, if someone asks a question about email marketing, people who have absolutely no experience with email marketing start chiming in.

    They don't share what they know from experience. They regurgitate what they have read or have been told.

    If you have never written an email followup sequence, don't give your opinions on it. If you haven't done PPC, don't feel like you need to explain why SEO traffic is better.

    The people who are taking actions and experiencing results should be the ones starting the threads and providing useful and valuable information.

    Too many people are throwing in their opinions without having any experience behind their words.

    Theory is great. But experience pays the bills.

    Now if someone asks a question about ANYTHING, just be sure that if you do respond, you respond as someone who has experience with that topic.

    Much Success,

    JoeMack
    This will become a ghost town if that rule came about.... I reckon 90% of WF member have no idea about how to make money online.... . Lol

    Danny
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  • Profile picture of the author Stuart Walker
    it's usually not very difficult to see when someone has no idea what they are talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author funkynassau
    I sometimes reply to questions about things where I dont have the answer because I have a different question that pertains to the topic. How else am I going to learn if I dont ask questions?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Your not suggesting that some of the information on the forum could be misleading?
      I have never seen a forum with any sort of open posting where that wasn't the case. The more open the policy, the more likely there is to be information that is mistaken, outdated, or just made up.

      That's hardly unique to this forum. It is more visible here because the place is so large relative to many forums in this industry, and the posting policy is so open. As with any choice, there are good and bad sides to that decision.
      I sometimes reply to questions about things where I dont have the answer because I have a different question that pertains to the topic. How else am I going to learn if I dont ask questions?
      No-one in this thread, as far as I've seen, has said anything about not posting questions. This is about people giving plain old bad avice, and the impact it can have on people who accept it as being valid.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Angle Warrior
        [QUOTE=Paul Myers;8090037]I have never seen a forum with any sort of open posting where that wasn't the case. The more open the policy, the more likely there is to be information that is mistaken, outdated, or just made up.

        Thanks Paul, what I was suggesting is that we are in a market that has a reputation of having products that well are a little misleading, that's why I was commenting, if someone has 10,000,000 post or just 10 the claim of being an expert is just that a claim.
        I like the fact that there are a lot of different opinions from experts and non- experts because it allows me to having an open mind when looking to a idea or wso.
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  • Profile picture of the author anwiii
    joemack- i completely agree. in fact, this is one of my biggest pet peeves of all time. this is one of the areas that also angers me the most when i see it happening.

    i like helping people and i see so many people being misguided by totally false information.

    unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing we can do except spread the correct information and provide the proof on what we ourselves say and be responsible when we do.

    this should actually NOT be a rule though and like others have said, it cannot be enforceable. everyone has their own knowledge and some of the things that can be said can in fact be debated because not everything is set in stone.

    i have come to the conclusion and try to have the mindset that i actually WANT people to give false information so that the information can come out in the open and discussed rather than get annoyed and angry that some people are spreading rumors and lies. eventually i had to create a balance to how i was feeling so now i just try to turn the negative i was feeling in to something more positive. i suck at it sometimes because it's hard to do but i put in a very decent effort.

    with that said, i can tell ya that i questioned the information once being spread on the warrior forum about a year ago. they were talking about seo in which i have been an expert in for 15 years by researching extensively daily on the subject and also putting my research in practice. i had discredited someones method they were trying to sell other people and the next thing i knew i was banned from the warrior forum for a while.

    so now the warrior forum set me straight in thinking that they are more about making money than to help others and "helping others" is just a means to make that money. so if i know someone is spreading false information and selling something here, i should be prepared to be approached by someone who has the authority to ban me if i open my big mouth saying anything against what they are selling.

    anyway, your post just reminded me of how i always felt in places like the warrior forum. thanks for being open and sharing. although i totally understand what you are saying, i myself can't possibly agree with such rule only because i believe in freedom of speech as long as you aren't hurting others on a personal level.

    we will always be faced with the good and the bad in this life and it's up for us to determine what the differences are. sometimes it's very hard to differentiate but through our own choices and making mistakes, we learn. the best way to learn is through first hand experiences AND making mistakes. what i have learned over the years(i am 45 now) is that sometimes it's ok to allow false information to spread and not warn others and allow them to believe something and make those mistakes to learn from first hand. sometimes THAT is in the best interest of people rather than trying to save them and the world
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by anwiii View Post

      so now the warrior forum set me straight in thinking that they are more about making money than to help others and "helping others" is just a means to make that money. so if i know someone is spreading false information and selling something here, i should be prepared to be approached by someone who has the authority to ban me if i open my big mouth saying anything against what they are selling.
      I seriously doubt that your ban came from questioning something someone is selling. Much more likely, the ban came from how you did it.

      Many times, otherwise honest critics will end up attacking the vendor rather than the product.

      If what you say were really true, the only reviews left in either the review section or the WSO section would be the shills and suck-ups and affiliates (groups with sometimes massive overlaps).

      Originally Posted by anwiii View Post

      we will always be faced with the good and the bad in this life and it's up for us to determine what the differences are. sometimes it's very hard to differentiate but through our own choices and making mistakes, we learn. the best way to learn is through first hand experiences AND making mistakes. what i have learned over the years(i am 45 now) is that sometimes it's ok to allow false information to spread and not warn others and allow them to believe something and make those mistakes to learn from first hand. sometimes THAT is in the best interest of people rather than trying to save them and the world
      This part is dead on. Someone once said that a bloody nose is one of the best teachers of when to duck. They also say that those who refuse to study history are doomed to repeat it. What they don't say is that the smart ones only repeat it once...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      This, ladies and gentlemen, is a classic example of someone spreading inaccurate information.
      with that said, i can tell ya that i questioned the information once being spread on the warrior forum about a year ago. they were talking about seo in which i have been an expert in for 15 years by researching extensively daily on the subject and also putting my research in practice. i had discredited someones method they were trying to sell other people and the next thing i knew i was banned from the warrior forum for a while.

      so now the warrior forum set me straight in thinking that they are more about making money than to help others and "helping others" is just a means to make that money.
      The notion that anyone got banned simply for disagreeing with someone else, especially on the topic of SEO, is easily disproved. Just like the oft-repeated and equally empty claim that we don't allow negative comments about products in the WSO section.

      Browse the threads in the relevant sections for a few minutes and the inaccuracy of the allegations will become quite obvious.

      If you were arguing a technique in a WSO thread, and kept at it after being asked to stop, that would get you banned for a while. Especially if you hadn't bought the product. If memory serves, that was the general situation. (Please correct me if I am not remembering accurately.)

      Contrary to what many people believe, the threads in the paid advertising sections are not subject to the same rules as the discussion sections. They are about products, not general conversation. There are things you can say there which you can't say in main discussion, for example, and vice versa.

      You may not like those rules, but they're not arbitrary. They exist to allow legitimate sellers to promote products, and legitimate customers to comment on those products, good or bad.

      I happen to believe your intentions were good in the situation you mention. I really do. I also believe that far too many people start those kinds of arguments with bad intentions. And, regardless of intent, many start them based on exactly the kind of mistaken beliefs we're talking about in this thread.

      We don't have any way of knowing with certainty whether someone's intentions are good or not. We don't know whether their beliefs on the subject are accurate, no matter how strongly they assert their expertise. In the end, as long as the seller accurately represents their product and delivers what they sold, the conversation is between sellers, people considering buying, and people who've actually bought.

      Any other discussion belongs in the discussion sections. Not the "Buy/Sell" areas.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Anonymous Affiliate
    I agree with the OP, at least from a theoretical point of view: if you don't know what you're talking about you should not be posting a business advise (this is a business-centered forum after all). Unfortunately there's no way to enforce such proposal
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  • Profile picture of the author CherryAffairs
    Are you experience enough to say that people without experience shouldn't response to a topic?

    Come on. Just loosen up. People just want to contribute the things they know and that's great for this forum. The thread starter can just sieve out the things that are useful to them.

    Facebook wasn't started by someone experience but it did well. It's not that much about experience either. People do well with experience but doesn't mean someone without experience will do worst than someone with experience.

    We shouldn't deny people the chance to share but what we can do is to vote up or thank the post that we think is useful.
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  • Profile picture of the author KMalo
    Shall we also sack our politians since they often engage in debates about topics they have no experience of and they make laws about things that have never touched them.
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  • Profile picture of the author scrofford
    Originally Posted by JoeMack View Post

    Hello All...

    I love the Warrior Forum. It has opened up so many doorways for me, and was critical in going fro a 9 to 5er to living life on my own terms.

    But one thing that DRIVES ME BONKERS is all the Warriors that feel that need to respond to a topic even though they have no experience in it.

    For example, if someone asks a question about email marketing, people who have absolutely no experience with email marketing start chiming in.

    They don't share what they know from experience. They regurgitate what they have read or have been told.

    If you have never written an email followup sequence, don't give your opinions on it. If you haven't done PPC, don't feel like you need to explain why SEO traffic is better.

    The people who are taking actions and experiencing results should be the ones starting the threads and providing useful and valuable information.

    Too many people are throwing in their opinions without having any experience behind their words.

    Theory is great. But experience pays the bills.

    Now if someone asks a question about ANYTHING, just be sure that if you do respond, you respond as someone who has experience with that topic.

    Much Success,

    JoeMack
    Though I understand how you feel, how in the world can you make a rule like that? People can lie and say they have all of this experience etc. Also, this is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss stuff - even if you don't have experience.

    I think that you just need to be careful who you listen to and make sure that any advice you take is something that is sound.

    I really don't see how you can make a rule like that and enforce it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    On an ideal forum, that rule would be great. But the question is: How do we determine who has experience and who doesn't? A high post count means nothing and a person simply saying they're experienced doesn't make it so. That's the main thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author THK
    I don't mind people chiming in with their opinion or thoughts as long as they don't pass it along as "experience".

    This is a discussion forum. An idea, opinion or thought can lighten up a discussion anytime. Why would anyone want to kill that?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
      Originally Posted by THK View Post

      I don't mind people chiming in with their opinion or thoughts as long as they don't pass it along as "experience".

      This is a discussion forum. An idea, opinion or thought can lighten up a discussion anytime. Why would anyone want to kill that?
      Personally, I prefer to hear from people with and without experience as I may see things from people without experience that I never considered. There is a long history of people in this forum without experience that have added new and innovative ideas that work. In some situations better than before.

      Its like I tell my kids. Don't be afraid to discuss anything you have on your mind with me. When and if I seem obstinate to your opinion try to keep an open mind because a lot of what I do and say is based on my experience and a history of other people's experiences. That does not mean things won't change and do not need to change simply because there is also a long history of people that did in fact change the way we do things.

      Discussion is not about who is right and who is wrong. Its about being open minded and mindful of other peoples opinions.

      Years ago I was invited by a famous author and authority on Egypt's monuments only because I presented a difference of opinion about his research conclusions. He was open minded about it all because he did not have the experience I have in a specific field of interest. My logic vs. his logic stood among academics. Were he to discount my lack of experience and not being an expert in his field it would have led to the end of his research.

      He said this to me just last week.. "All of my misguided years, all of my lifetime commitments were disputed and bravo ed in one day. I could not be happier!"

      That is an open minded man mindful of other peoples opinions.

      Jeffery 100% :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author anwiii
        Originally Posted by Jeffery View Post

        Personally, I prefer to hear from people with and without experience as I may see things from people without experience that I never considered. There is a long history of people in this forum without experience that have added new and innovative ideas that work. In some situations better than before.
        i like this outlook and i try to have the same outlook as any quest for the truth needs an open mind and knowledge can come from anywhere and anyone.

        this isn't what the OP was referring to though. there is in fact a lot of ignorance being posted in many places online. the warrior forum is the king of it, but like paul had said, when you consider the ratio of people, it's about the same as anywhere else with an "open" discussion policy.

        when we see untruths or "ignorance" is what i like to call it, online, this information can spread viral. when this ignorance is openly discussed or argued, it's being taught to others searching for answers if someone doesn't speak up. although you are correct in stating that they might have something useful to say too, this isn't what the OP was referring to. he was referring to information that can obviously be discredited as either outdated or wrong information all together.

        nobody really has to keep an open mind to information that can obviously be disproven even if there are bits of information within the ignorance that ARE true.

        we can keep an open mind to what we know or NOT know of the truth, but we never have to keep an open mind with what we know is ignorance. also, if we know better, then there should be facts and/or statistics to back it up......or at the very LEAST a logical theory where even that could be up for discussion.

        personally, my quest for information and the truth has lead me to question everything because of all the misleading information out there about everything. i know i have been guilty of spreading false information years ago but i have learned a while back that sometimes it's just better to stay quiet and listen, disect, throw away the b.s. and keep what is true or what relates to me the most.

        whenever i open my big mouth it's because i have someone to say on a topic i am knowledgeable about. i say big mouth because sometimes i will stir my words to provoke a response, a debate, or a discussion to promote activity in an area that needs to be discusses. just like why the OP started this thread in the first place when he knew there would be no such rule here.

        now although this topic can be "discussed" with an open mind, some information that the OP was talking about vaguely(the ignorance) is the point of the topic.

        so- if there obviously can't be a rule set to handle the ignorance and the spreading of false information, how do we go about dealing with it without getting banned as i was? i never made a big deal about it back then nor am i now.....but when paul mentions we have an "open" discussion policy on the warrior forum, i kinda had an experience that discredits that notion. so what's the answer? i do know that it's in the warrior forums best interest to allow misguided information when they are running this forum as a business and anyone can post a wso selling snake oil. to stop the ignorance means the warrior forum doesn't get paid. i am not downing the warrior forum. i love this place and all the USEFUL information that can be gained by being a member. but how do we deal with the misguided information when it will contradict the existence and livelihood of the warrior forum if someone speaks up against misleading and/or false information?

        .....just a question to see where this goes....
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          how do we deal with the misguided information when it will contradict the existence and livelihood of the warrior forum if someone speaks up against misleading and/or false information?
          This has already been answered, but I'll repeat myself for you. Again.

          If you have bought the product, you are encouraged to comment on the product in the WSO thread. Good or bad. You are not allowed to hijack a paid thread with an ongoing series of attacks, paying customer or not.

          If you haven't bought the product, you are not allowed to comment on it.

          There are several reasons for the latter. The obvious one being that you don't actually know what it includes if you haven't seen it. I've personally seen many instances where people formed conclusions based on an ad that were both reasonable and wrong.

          We sometimes see people bashing a competitor's product in an effort to damage them, or just steer people toward their own products. This is uncommon, but it's not something sellers have made up. It happens.

          We also see people using the threat of a "bad review" or a fake refund request as a way to try and extort free copies from a seller. That's not something we see every day, but it's not nearly as rare as we'd like.

          Then there's the question of topics like SEO. I once watched a feud between two sellers of SEO services. They each insisted the other's techniques didn't work, and would actually hurt your placement in the SERPs. They also each had a LOT of very positive testimonials from paying customers (not affiliates).

          That sort of thing happens fairly often. In a lot of situations, the personal style of the individual doing a thing has a huge impact. In SEO, one would think that aspect would matter less, which is what made that debate so interesting.

          Both people claim to be experts. Both had significant numbers of credible testimonials. And each swore the other was wrong. Would it really be appropriate for a moderator to take sides in that little feud?

          Now for something you seem not to know: None of the moderators make a dime off those WSO fees. Nada. Not me, and not any of the others. We don't even take them into account when making decisions. I can also tell you that I can't think of a single instance, ever, when Allen overrode a moderator's decision on a paid ad.

          As far as those sections, the function of a moderator is to enforce the rules, not to substitute our own opinions for the critical thinking required of a person when making a choice for their own business.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author anwiii
            wasn't looking for an answer from you paul. i already saw your answer and a lot of it was directed towards me trying to discredit me and the fact that a mod(that wasn't you) DID in fact ban me for trying to review something in the area of my expertise because i didn't purchase or use the software script for seo rankings of irrelevant keywords. i used my past experience as an example of what can happen. not to rehash old news and get off topic.

            i go by "the mod is always right" thinking even though that might not be the case sometimes. if a mod says to stop talking and discussing(you yourself said that the admin wont override a mod), you stop talking and discussing obviously or risk what happened to me(even though i was never warned to stop). so when there is ignorance floating around, and a mod tells you that you cannot discredit what is being said, what's the recourse for intelligent enlightenment to be spread?

            we already know there wont be a ban on ignorance.... and we already know that we can't comment on part of a wso even if we know more about the topic than the topic starter trying to sell something or even if it's just a thread that isn't trying to sell anything

            what i saw personally was someone claiming something to be white hat when it was clearly black hat and against google terms. worse than any software program or script i have ever witnessed except maybe for something called "traffic hurricane" from years back. also, i was witnessing the claims of getting page 1 and #1 rankings for keywords with absolutely no competition or people searching for those keywords(with minor exceptions). so what did i do? i didn't comment on the script/.software that i know nothing about. i comment on the seo aspect of it all. what you are saying is that we cannot have a discussion that we have first hand knowledge about on sub topics that are in a wso.

            now see? this is EXACTLY why this thread was created and why i decided to pipe in myself. i don't know about anyone else. i guess i am a person of high principles who likes to say something when i see something going on that is wrong. gets me in trouble sometimes but to me, that's better than not saying anything at all in my opinion. at the same time, i personally like the warrior forum and i know that for myself, i am afraid to chime in sometimes in fear of getting banned again. it's not that i know it all or other people know it all. it's about opening up a discussion so others can make an informed decision at the very least.

            i mean, if it's impossible to ban ignorance and we allow it(as it should be), then there should be more wiggle room here to correct it through open discussions in the thread where the ignorance or lies are being promoted. that's my opinion at least.
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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              a lot of it was directed towards me trying to discredit me
              Discredit you? Hardly. I acknowledged that I believe your intent was good, and I expressed no opinion whatsoever about your credentials. I don't know enough on them to have an opinion.

              I pointed out what the rules are, and why. And I addressed the completely inaccurate conclusion that they are designed to protect ad revenues at the expense of the members.

              Which mod was involved in the specific situation you're talking about is not really relevant. My comments apply, based on your own statements about what happened.
              when there is ignorance floating around, and a mod tells you that you cannot discredit what is being said, what's the recourse for intelligent enlightenment to be spread?
              The discussion areas. Not a paid sales thread.
              i guess i am a person of high principles who likes to say something when i see something going on that is wrong.
              That may be true. I have no reason to doubt it, certainly. But the fact that reality requires rules that you don't agree with doesn't mean anyone else is necessarily any less concerned with doing the right thing.

              Allowing what you call "wiggle room" would require that we essentially throw the relevant rules out entirely. The consequences of that would be much more damaging than letting a few people risk making mistakes in the process of learning.

              The moderators don't have the luxury of single-focus. We have to look at the overall picture, and make decisions based on that. And one thing we all agree on is that we cannot and should not try to think for everyone else.


              Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
    how do we deal with the misguided information when it will contradict the existence and livelihood of the warrior forum if someone speaks up against misleading and/or false information?

    .....just a question to see where this goes....
    Why you asked that question when Paul already answered it I can only guess that you either missed it, which I doubt, or you just don't get it, or you are fixated on convincing someone (anyone) to agree with your opinion. Lets not forget that even though you may be a self proclaimed expert in certain subjects and you say that you can tell the difference between sound information and misinformation in those subjects.. we simply do not know that to be fact. Might want to consider that you are welcome here as long as you follow the rules which are all common rules understood by the common man... you do not have to be an expert and nobody has to justify the reasons why you are asked to wipe your feet at the front door.

    Jeffery 100% :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Fanton
    It will be too hard to enforce such a rule. People don't send CVs when joining WF! which means there is no practical way of telling whether someone is an expert or not. The level of expertise also differs, with everyone claiming to be an expert in a particular area. I don't think it is practical to implement such a rule! Who is going to judge whether you are an expert or not?How many comments are made on WF every hour? and can mods go through all threads reading what everyone has been commenting to know whether it is "expert" or not? What would be the criteria for telling whether someone is an "expert"?
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  • Profile picture of the author RobinInTexas
    We should be able to rate comments within threads, just like the way we can rate threads, or maybe a button that says "this is stupid or off topic".

    The never ending comments like
    Originally Posted by alexstone View Post

    Or make jQuery script for Wordpress
    (function($){
    $(document).ready(function(){

    $('.creds').remove();

    });

    })(jQuery)

    in this thread. http://www.warriorforum.com/website-...oter-text.html
    Signature

    Robin



    ...Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just set there.
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