Register Advertise with usHelp Desk Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 03:56 PM   #51
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 16,867
Thanks: 5,866
Thanked 13,116 Times in 6,983 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

Nope...ask any regular member in the SEO section if the Forum wasn't better say four years ago. Sorry that kind of bursts the bubble that quality decline is all new ownerships fault but Still.....I guess its a compliment of some sort to have someone hanging on to my every word.
I wouldn't bother to ask a bunch of self promoters about the "quality" of the SEO forum. It's a mess and always has been. But yeah, I'm hanging on your every word, especially the two posts that said you were outta here. lol.
sbucciarel is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 04:34 PM   #52
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

I wouldn't bother to ask a bunch of self promoters about the "quality" of the SEO forum. It's a mess and always has been. But yeah, I'm hanging on your every word, especially the two posts that said you were outta here. lol.
What can I say. If someone goes to the point of baiting and using reverse psychology to get me to stay how can I be as cold as to deny them their emotional need of my presence? Love changes everything.

Meanwhile may I ask who put the sig link in your signature ? someone else or your SELF? If someone else whose your promoter? Don King? he's retired and now does sigs I guess.... lol.

Self promoters critiquing self promoters, Imers claiming other industries are full of scammers and people promoting places that sell SEO "scams" claiming they are free from scamming. Is there some water everyone on the HMS bounty is all sipping from?


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 05:04 PM   #53
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 16,867
Thanks: 5,866
Thanked 13,116 Times in 6,983 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

What can I say. If someone goes to the point of baiting and using reverse psychology to get me to stay how can I be as cold as to deny them their emotional need of my presence? Love changes everything.

Meanwhile may I ask who put the sig link in your signature ? someone else or your SELF? If someone else whose your promoter? Don King? he's retired and now does sigs I guess.... lol.

Self promoters critiquing self promoters, Imers claiming other industries are full of scammers and people promoting places that sell SEO "scams" claiming they are free from scamming. Is there some water everyone on the HMS bounty is all sipping from?
Perhaps you haven't done any member moderation, so therefore, really don't get what self promotion is vs paying for your advertising in this forum. My signature is paid for. My ads are paid for and in the appropriate forum. The self promotion going on in the subforums are designed to eliminate the cost to the poster of paying for advertising here. It involves dropping hints to visit your signature, mentioning your company name over and over > those are the more covert ones, but the really blatant ones are the thousands of just flat out self promotional links dropped to your their own products and services and self promotional text in posts. Fortunately, I seriously doubt that you will get your wish that self promotion will be allowed in SEO. Freelancer is a for profit company and it is not beneficial to them to allow people to advertise without paying.
sbucciarel is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to sbucciarel For This Useful Post:
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 05:45 PM   #54
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

Perhaps you haven't done any member moderation, so therefore, really don't get what self promotion is vs paying for your advertising in this forum. My signature is paid for. My ads are paid for and in the appropriate forum
earth to Suzanne so are many of the sigs bought and paid for in the SEO forum. I sported one for two years so as usual your insinuations are full of garbage .

The self promotion going on in the subforums are designed to eliminate the cost to the poster of paying for advertising here.
Your ability to read with comprehension fails so cutely when you see my name due to your great anger that I support new ownership. This is also what happens when you interject into a conversation you don't know squat about - as we both know you don't have the first clue of the threads I was referring to.

This why I addressed Yukon's post because he does know that I am not talking about dropping company name, link, references to your own WSO or anything you just mentioned in your ignorance but to deleting threads based on the possibility they MAY be promotional as indicated and your glasses fogged over when I wrote

the very idea that Kyle MIGHT develop some rep and have his sig highlighted would lead to the deletion.
See if you knew squat about the SEo section you would know that there was a possibility under self promotion considerations that if you even posted a case study in the wrong way or discussed a strategy it could be deleted because it might be seen as an attempt to gain a following for a subsequent product launch. I have no issue with limiting self promotion as you described it but referred to DRACONIAN measures which if you bothered to look up the word and inform your ignorance means excessive - in this context seeing self promotion everywhere even when it might not be there.

How else does Yukon know I am not talking about skirting advertising on WF? because as a mod he has most likely seen me REPORT such things.

I am not the one that has a problem with freelancer being for profit (as if thats new for WF - lol) and neither wish nor think they should allow people to advertise freely. Shucks I even understand their not wanting to link to competing services like you drone on they should. I am fine with that

Better luck next time


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 05:58 PM   #55
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 16,867
Thanks: 5,866
Thanked 13,116 Times in 6,983 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

earth to Suzanne so are many of the sigs bought and paid for in the SEO forum. I sported one for two years so as usual your insinuations are full of garbage not so sweet child

Your ability to read with comprehension fails so cutely when you see my name due to your great anger that I support new ownership. This is also what happens when you interject into a conversation you don't know squat about - as we both know you don't have the first clue of the threads I was referring to.
I could care less about the threads specifically that you are referring to and I am not referring to signatures when I talk about self promotion. Signatures are not self promotion in the sense that we are discussing here ... capish? Probably not. You are rather dense.

But I know exactly the type of thread you are talking about, as I have seen and reported many of them, and they have promptly disappeared after doing so. They make an "oh so informative" thread by an "oh so guroooey like" person, and drop all the self promotional info in the post along with self promotional videos. Sorry ... I don't care who is doing it ... it's self promotion and thus far, it has not been allowed if reported. Who knows ... rules may change. But they haven't yet and I really don't see freelancer allowing people to litter up the subforums with free advertising ... at least not deliberately allowing it. The lack of moderation in those forums is another matter altogether.
sbucciarel is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 06:26 PM   #56
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

I could care less about the threads specifically that you are referring to.
Yawn....an admission by a poster that she doesn't care whether she understood the conversation she was interjecting into was about or not. That says it all right there.

But I know exactly the type of thread you are talking about, as I have seen and reported many of them, and they have promptly disappeared after doing so. They make an "oh so informative" thread by an "oh so guroooey like" person, and drop all the self promotional info in the post along with self promotional videos
bzzzzzzz....wrong again reported those myself. Lets face it. you know exactly squat and are clueless about what I am referring to in the SEO section but just sniping because of your great hatred of my support for new ownership.

I've been called a dick, a scammer because I do SEO and you are trying hard to insinuate that I want to avoid paying WF advertising all because I am a senior member that supports management and disagreed with Sal trying to claim all was rosy before new ownership

You can all have a cow - well so to speak . In my encounters I have found Alaister to be less arrogant and kinder than the whole of you put together. maybe since I don't know him well that may change a bit but seen you guys in action long enough


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 06:52 PM   #57
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 16,867
Thanks: 5,866
Thanked 13,116 Times in 6,983 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

... but just sniping because of your great hatred of my support for new ownership.
That's too funny. I don't give what you support or don't support a second thought. Seems I forgot, until I was just reminded via pm, what a big black sinkhole conversing with you is, so I'll bid you goodnight.
sbucciarel is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 06:54 PM   #58
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Mike,

I'm not going to argue the merits of one personal choice over another. I know there'd be a lot more people getting scammed here, especially in the JV section, if I'd gone with your option. I'm happy with the results of my decision on that.

As far as the question of all those link spamming tools... Offers for them or related training haven't been allowed here for several years. The relevant part of the WSO rules is:
You may not sell any product here that endorses, enables, or facilitates the sending of unsolicited bulk messages via email, private messaging systems, or other channels meant for one-to-one communication, or the spamming of forums, blogs, chat systems, or social networking sites.
Guess who wrote that up and got it approved? And guess which types of software he had in mind for that last part when he did it.

Oh... And if you can find anywhere outside of this forum where I've promoted it in the last 5 years or so, I'd be surprised. I've been fairly consistent in keeping my business separate from anyone else's, other than a few affiliate recommendations. (None of them pointing here, by the way.) Haven't offered any paid WSOs here for years for the same reason.


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 07:16 PM   #59
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2008
Posts: 712
Thanks: 148
Thanked 1,334 Times in 298 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Thank you for openly discussing this change and providing feedback on what has happened. The decision to have the forum moderated by our staff moderators was definitely not an easy one and is in no way a reflection of the old moderators. As I mentioned in my original post, they have done an amazing job and we truly appreciate their dedication over the years.

It's really great that you have all shared your thoughts, thanked the old moderators and discussed the changes. However this thread has started to go of topic and divide to community which is of no benefit to anyone.

Please keep further discussions here on topic. I've also sent a PM message to some of you.

We hope you can give our new moderators and staff the same respect you did for the old ones.
Alaister is offline  
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Alaister For This Useful Post:
Unread 22nd Oct 2014, 08:06 PM   #60
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

Oh... And if you can find anywhere outside of this forum where I've promoted it in the last 5 years or so, I'd be surprised.
Paul
Paul just for your clarity none of that answers any of my points nor do I consider accurate but i'll end it there.



Last edited on 22nd Oct 2014 at 11:53 PM. Reason: but none
Mike Anthony is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Anthony For This Useful Post:
Unread 23rd Oct 2014, 10:27 AM   #61
Robert Andrew
War Room Member
 
discrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 7,537
Thanks: 7,087
Thanked 6,691 Times in 4,257 Posts
Blog Entries: 29
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Wow,
A lot of people, particularly in the beginning of this Thread, coming down hard on New Ownership.

This is typical stuff that happens in a Business. New guard comes in and the old guard gets pissed off because things seemed to have changed or someone's feelings get hurt etc..etc..

To me it is kind of ironic. Freelancer is just doing what many of the same people in here who are bitching and whining about are trying to do and that is........Marketing their Services in a prudent and strategic manner and making Money at doing it.

Nothing wrong with that at all. You gotta Luv Capitalism and the free markets

Maybe many of You here should take a lesson from Freelancer
discrat is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to discrat For This Useful Post:
Unread 23rd Oct 2014, 12:10 PM   #62
Paid Search Expert
Registered Member
War Room Member
 
ppcmanager's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2013
Posts: 332
Thanks: 67
Thanked 73 Times in 62 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Good move. A couple of sub-forums (like the "Joint Ventures" section) didn't had consistency in terms of thread approvals. Although the Mods had the best of intention, yet it seemed like a personal call of the mods rather than a standard policy.

I hope such inconsistencies are removed moving forward.
ppcmanager is offline  
Unread 23rd Oct 2014, 04:31 PM   #63
Marketing Dude
War Room Member
 
Net66's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 419
Thanks: 970
Thanked 1,279 Times in 371 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I just want to publically thank all those who have moderated the forum up until now and done a grand job. You've certainly given the freelancer staff a standard to try to live up to!

Andy

What I do - And How I do it. My Personal Blog...
http://AndyBrocklehurst.com
Net66 is offline  
Unread 23rd Oct 2014, 04:37 PM   #64
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
mrmarketer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2011
Location: Princeton
Posts: 151
Thanks: 98
Thanked 114 Times in 86 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Significant thanks for all the Old Mods for everything they did in their effort to keep the wheels from coming off. I would not be surprised if they are not get called upon again at some time in the future.

Andrew

The First Hosted Helpdesk designed for Warriors ***Create loyal customers with the 1st hosted helpdesk for Product Creators*** (Facebook Page)
mrmarketer1 is offline  
Unread 24th Oct 2014, 12:02 AM   #65
Barry Rodgers
War Room Member
 
Paleochora's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Big, wet ball with billions of others
Posts: 1,143
Thanks: 361
Thanked 666 Times in 385 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I want to just add my thanks to the outgoing (or outgone) volunteer mods.

You were not always perfect and I didn't always agree with mod decisions or actions but you did a tough job and you did it well and - importantly - you did it for the community rather than for a wage. So that deserves a huge "bravo".

Let's hope the new team will be as dedicated and insightful as you guys (mostly) were.

Paleochora is offline  
Unread 24th Oct 2014, 06:56 AM   #66
Software Creator!
War Room Member
 
snginc's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 298
Thanks: 1,611
Thanked 345 Times in 299 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I want to thank all of the outgoing moderators. I have learned a lot from Paul (after getting a dont do that pm). He was my go to guy when I had questions about questionable things going on the forum.

It will be interesting to see how things go with the turnover.

Jerome

snginc is offline  
Unread 25th Oct 2014, 01:29 PM   #67
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
godoveryou's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 807
Thanks: 72
Thanked 300 Times in 215 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by yukon View Post

Here's the problem with the new moderation update.

In the past, sub-forums had dedicated mods that were interested in each individual sub-forum. We could easily spot a self promoting spammer.

Today, there's no sub-forum mods, you have mods only watching the New Post & the slim chance of watching the mod forum where a problem thread would be reported. Notice I said slim chance because I know how they usually get ignored & pile up which only started after the forum was sold.

In other words, eliminating sub-forum mods is costing Warrior Forum unpaid advertising. I was under the impression the goal here was to turn a profit. Fast forward a year from now & the unpaid advertising (self promoting spam) won't be a pretty sight for forum members to sift through. It's already happening, go look at the SEO sub-forum, I'm sure the other sub-forums will follow.

I don't have a problem with moderation being moved in house but really from what I see you've eliminated moderation instead of replacing volunteer moderators. At the very least don't cheap out, hire some dedicated sub-forum moderators.
This was my point in another thread on the topic.

I've stopped reporting threads and posts once I realized that the new mods didn't understand how aggressive self promotion worked or what it looked like. They thought it was purely about a few links in a post... Classic sign of the blind leading the blind.

It's pointless to have a moderator in something like the SEO section if that person doesn't understand the history or players in that field.

As I initially said, I understand the logic, but the flaw in it was either not seen by Alaister or had been not taken seriously enough... By the time it is figured out any attempt to correct will come too late or involve the wrong people in all likelihood.

In the mean time, I get to watch a few good guys talk about the very few good topics that come up while everything else goes to hell.

Don't Know Me? - Read my interview at Matthewwoodward.co.uk
http://www.godoveryou.com/
godoveryou is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to godoveryou For This Useful Post:
Unread 26th Oct 2014, 08:12 AM   #68
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by godoveryou View Post

This was my point in another thread on the topic.

I've stopped reporting threads and posts once I realized that the new mods didn't understand how aggressive self promotion worked or what it looked like. They thought it was purely about a few links in a post... Classic sign of the blind leading the blind.
My Man Goy As I hope you know Ain't got nothing but love for you

But heres the thing. There was a WILDLY self promotional thread in the SEO section that was there for several hours yesterday. Past mods were in there claiming it would never have been there o n their watch others were yucking it up basically saying the same. Back and forth conversation like I said - for hours(I think stretched over about 10-12 posts). So that would seem to back up your observation but

I hit report........in a few minutes if it was there I saw it no more (unless i missed it but I checked more than once). Just like what happens in many forums it just took a report. Hasn't been the first time either I've done that in threads like that just like I did for the old mods - poof gone. So its pretty clear just as you suggested that there is complaining from people who won't even hit the report button. between that and snide comments on the board and even PMs and emails to me - Some WANT and can't wait for WF to burn and new management to fail

Another ex mod justified a thread yesterday unlike any that we have ever had in the SEo section before - an OP half about a news report about a person and half a series of rumours and gripes about that same person, Discussion for OT forums (maybe) but never done in the SEO section before. I pointed out the FACT that we never had threads about people in the SEO section regardless if they did SEO. Its been one of the unspoken rules just like in the review section you can't make threads all about people rather than product- One of the justifications from the ex mod?- new management. So why not?

Of course when such threads spiral out of control then the same people justifying it can say "see? bad mods". Self fulfilling prophecy

Free speech is good stuff but there comes a point (and I am NOT saying YOUare at it) when heckling is just sabatoging the forum. Self promoting is bad and I report it but cheerleading/promoting the failing and burning of WF should be modded jsut like it used to be as well. I've seen people who just heckled vanish n the night

In fact with all the talk in various circles on and off the board of people (not you)going elsewhere or maybe going elsewhere sometimes it reads like a "Pre launch promotion" for that new place.

mod that under promotional as well.


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 08:02 AM   #69
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Kay King's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,678
Thanks: 29,082
Thanked 28,002 Times in 13,340 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Self promoting is bad and I report it but cheerleading/promoting the failing and burning of WF should be modded jsut like it used to be as well.
Isn't that a bit of a disconnect. I agree with you about the new mods - they are doing well in my opinion and deserve support of the members here.

But what you're saying is "old mods are behaving badly" but the the forum "should be modded just like it used to be".

From what I've seen the new folks are perfectly capable of deciding what THEY will allow. However, it's also true that questions asking if they still want member mods have gone unanswered in several threads. For that reason, I report only obvious infractions inside threads where they might be missed.

What is concerning - and what may hurt membership - is loss of functionality of the forum. On Sept 29, search function stopped working. A month gone now and no indication it will be fixed. May be one reason so many old threads are being bumped these days - can't find new ones.

Makes it harder on the new mods and makes the forum less useful for members, buyers and sellers.

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
Please do not 'release balloons' for celebrations. The balloons and trailing ribbons entangle birds and kill wildlife and livestock that think the balloons are food.
Kay King is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kay King For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 10:06 AM   #70
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2002
Location: Over Yonder
Posts: 3,853
Thanks: 3,374
Thanked 5,419 Times in 2,572 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

From what I've seen the new folks are perfectly capable of deciding what THEY will allow. However, it's also true that questions asking if they still want member mods have gone unanswered in several threads. For that reason, I report only obvious infractions inside threads where they might be missed.
I agree that the lack of a public answer by an authoritative figure is puzzling. They either want our help or don't. It's really just a yes or no answer.

However, after I wrote in a thread that was later deleted that I had turned to intentionally avoiding reporting spam due to the lack of an answer, a new mod sent me a PM to, amongst other things, ask that I continue to report them. So I have. But it would be nice to have a definite answer.

Mark
Mark Singletary is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mark Singletary For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 10:35 AM   #71
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
godoveryou's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 807
Thanks: 72
Thanked 300 Times in 215 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I hear ya Mike.

I'll tell you about the moment I officially stop caring...

Myself and another person noticed a blatant sales page that was posted in reply to a thread in the SEO section. It was extremely clear what the intent was, not just in links, but verbage. The message was "I made this theme, it is the best theme for this purpose, here is what my theme does and why you should buy it" It was clearly a "Buy my theme" sales letter most of which had nothing to do with the discussion in the thread. I reported it, the mods knocked it out (good job) - but then they PM'ed the guy telling him it was due to the links.

So what happens? The advertorial post immediately went back up since the user had a copy of the original still saved, just without the links.

In other words, the message is a long form sales letter is fine as long as you don't include a link in the body of the post - other than the CTA signature link which went right to the theme's landing page anyways.

So if that's the message in moderation, from the moderators - why bother pointing things out at all? I'm wasting my time, their time, the spammers time... screw it.

Why participate in the process, why report posts? I'm not going to train their moderators on what spam looks like when they had perfectly capable, knowledgeable mods in place to begin with.

Moderating isn't rocket science in 99% of cases. It's just not. There isn't some great skill set required, for most forums. Certain forums however do require a degree of insight that you simply won't have if you don't live and breath the topic being discussed and I feel that the SEO forum is a perfect example of that.

In short, while I felt the moderation change was serious mistake at first I still continued to participate in the process in good faith. Then, my suspicion was proven the very first time I interacted with the new mods.

In other words, this followed a very logical progression of events...

Change > Suspicion > Confirmation

Even if someone said that I just had it out for the new management at all costs, I had nothing to do with the confirmation. I put the ball in their court to see what would happen.

They dropped it and in effect, wasted my time.

That's not my fault, that wasn't something I could influence in any way. That was purely their choice. The message delivered in that choice was that good faith participation wasn't valued.

So, this was a really long way of explaining that I'm not just turned away by the new management. I had been very unsure from the start, but still participated in the process. I thought replacing the mods would carry negative effects, but I still participated in the process....

It's the tangible result of their decisions that has turned me away from participating in the process any further.

While new management's decisions may take awhile to accumulate, poor moderation decisions will pile up quickly making the impact far greater.

If I had to venture a guess, I would bet that 'Big Al' has made the calculation that the moderation isn't difficult and the new mods will be able to quickly learn on the job. If I'm correct (and I may not be, I'm not trying to put words in his mouth) - I would forward that it is a flawed assumption and the result of that assumption would be disastrous.

Most of us (not all, I don't want to lump you into any certain group without your participation or vocalization Mike) can already see the cracks forming...

Don't Know Me? - Read my interview at Matthewwoodward.co.uk
http://www.godoveryou.com/
godoveryou is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to godoveryou For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 10:37 AM   #72
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Kay King's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,678
Thanks: 29,082
Thanked 28,002 Times in 13,340 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

My experience has been the opposite - I have not received a direct reply to ANY question I've asked. Not one.

At the same time I see a few members who seem (or at least claim) to have inside info or a dialog with management.

I know the new mods are good - I'm sure the new owners have good intentions for this forum. Failure to connect with members on their level is a big mistake in my opinion. To be blunt - it's starting to feel like an "old boy's club" in here and we got rid of that attitude years ago.

I'm not bashing - I know where the door is. Just pointing out what I see and how I feel about it.

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
Please do not 'release balloons' for celebrations. The balloons and trailing ribbons entangle birds and kill wildlife and livestock that think the balloons are food.
Kay King is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 10:47 AM   #73
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2002
Location: Over Yonder
Posts: 3,853
Thanks: 3,374
Thanked 5,419 Times in 2,572 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Kay, not sure if you are referring to me but I'm nothing special. I just lucked up and happened to get an explanation of a deleted post - that's all.

Mark

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

My experience has been the opposite - I have not received a direct reply to ANY question I've asked. Not one.

At the same time I see a few members who seem (or at least claim) to have inside info or a dialog with management.

I know the new mods are good - I'm sure the new owners have good intentions for this forum. Failure to connect with members on their level is a big mistake in my opinion. To be blunt - it's starting to feel like an "old boy's club" in here and we got rid of that attitude years ago.

I'm not bashing - I know where the door is. Just pointing out what I see and how I feel about it.
Mark Singletary is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 10:56 AM   #74
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Kay King's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,678
Thanks: 29,082
Thanked 28,002 Times in 13,340 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

No Mark - not referring to you at all. Just a general comment and I'm not the only oldie here that's thought it. Those who seem to claim special status may be whistling in the for all I know but I've not seen the claims refuted.

I'm happy to see answers are being provided and support given. Gives me hope this place will keep growing and improving.

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
Please do not 'release balloons' for celebrations. The balloons and trailing ribbons entangle birds and kill wildlife and livestock that think the balloons are food.
Kay King is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 11:16 AM   #75
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
godoveryou's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 807
Thanks: 72
Thanked 300 Times in 215 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

My experience has been the opposite - I have not received a direct reply to ANY question I've asked. Not one.

At the same time I see a few members who seem (or at least claim) to have inside info or a dialog with management.

I know the new mods are good - I'm sure the new owners have good intentions for this forum. Failure to connect with members on their level is a big mistake in my opinion. To be blunt - it's starting to feel like an "old boy's club" in here and we got rid of that attitude years ago.

I'm not bashing - I know where the door is. Just pointing out what I see and how I feel about it.
I know exactly where you are coming from. It is that "Connection" that is missing. To put it another way, there is a difference between simply occupying a car while it travels vs embracing the vehicle as you get precise steering feedback and a feeling for the enjoyable limits of the suspension travel while blissfully accelerating through an interesting and stimulating road course.

But that's an overall atmosphere problem that while directly attached to the moderator changes is actually more systemic of the nature of the new management. That's not the end of the world by any means by the way, but it is not in their favor all the same. I could live with it myself...

The issues I'm discussing probably aren't able to be applied forum-wide to be honest. In digital marketing you have specialized skill sets and therefore niches. Each one of these niches are going to have distinct flows and patterns that normally take people years to really get familiar with.

Sure, you can probably begin to recognize specific incidents or individual traits within a few months time, but to really have a solid understanding of how conversation is held on both a formal and informal level, that's something which takes longer to develop. SEO is probably the most nuanced of all of these niches discussed on WF.

So while things like responding to questions or handling minor, obvious complaints quickly do speak well of the new management - that's just what it is, overall management.

What's frustrating is having a group of guys that understand the nuances of a particular niche trying to interact with another group (new mods) who might be fine for overall management but are otherwise clueless about the details. Some of us will be insulted, some angry and others may not mind.

However, it will take years for the new mods to understand the more granular elements of our conversations in order to really parse out editorial vs advertorial posts. While that is occurring, the guys that will be annoyed by the process will begin to fall away - and the reaction to that might be "Fine, if they don't want to be here then we don't want them here."

The downside of that though, specifically with SEO is that there isn't a huge, vast wealth of talent to draw from. Of all of the members that actively participate on the subforum there are probably less than 10 that can contribute to meaningful, valuable conversation regularly.

So what you will develop over those years is a bunch of newbies, a pile of pseudo-SEOs, a mass of sellers and maybe a few quality posters that stuck it out. But nobody with any real talent developed elsewhere is going to look at the discussions held by the remaining membership group I just described and say "Yeah, I want in on this forum!"

This brings me back to my original point about accumulated depreciation.... while I applied it in terms of accounting, there is also a very serious talent and human expense that will occur - and it's not something that is easily purchased or can be acquired at a great rate.

Having run a SEO forum of my own for several years, I have a pretty specific understanding on how difficult it can be to create the conditions to attract talented, insightful SEO members.

What is occurring now is basically "Sudden death" in that forum... in my opinion, based on my extremely verifiable and widely known experience on the matter.

Don't Know Me? - Read my interview at Matthewwoodward.co.uk
http://www.godoveryou.com/
godoveryou is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 01:59 PM   #76
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Godoveryou,

Really well thought out explanation. Thank you.

There are a number of parts of the place that have their own unique and distinct cultures. SEO, copywriting, mobile marketing, and offline marketing stand out as the big ones. (OT, too, but that one is different in ways that any of the mods could learn and deal with pretty quickly.)

The SEO and copywriting sections had their own mods, who understood all the critical things you mentioned. They did just fine without much outside interference from the "run of the forum" mods. Mobile and offline have rarely needed any modding. They seem to do quite well on their own.

The thinking on those was simple: If those groups can handle their own stuff "in-house," leave them the hell alone. That worked because the active members had an investment in their communities.

And yeah, well over 90% of the process is simple. That stuff can be learned quickly and takes a small fraction of the time needed to moderate the place. The rest, as you noted, takes a bucketload of experience to get the hang of.

I'd suggest the new mods each take one section to learn thoroughly. Spend a certain amount of time each day just reading posts and getting to know the flow and culture in that group. Once they've got at least the basics down, they could then communicate them to others who have questions.

It's not a substitute for years of experience, but it can help cut down the learning curve. And it would keep everyone aware that there isn't just one culture here.

Some of that will have a high cost that can't be avoided at this point. There will be people who find the changes unacceptable, or just different enough that they're no longer feeling the same camaraderie they once did. And, as you say, some of those will be losses that aren't easily recovered from.

Still, the forum is a pretty large critter. Some of the sections could be built up pretty quickly with the right focus, and the overall system could improve at a fair pace. They have the people needed to do it, both in quantity and quality.

For that to happen, the feedback cycle is going to need to speed up. A lot. The very best intentions in the world won't change that. This is a real-time beast.


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Paul Myers For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 02:07 PM   #77
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Isn't that a bit of a disconnect. I agree with you about the new mods - they are doing well in my opinion and deserve support of the members here.

But what you're saying is "old mods are behaving badly" but the the forum "should be modded just like it used to be".
The disconnect is in your mind Kay. I referred to one thing being modded as it was before not generally. Seeing how there is a back and forth in this very thread between Suzanne and I regarding me saying new rules should be less draconian in regard to what promotions is - all I can gather is that you have quite the active imagination.

Two more things.

A) I haven't read all the places you referred to but I am a little (not much) surprised to read that the question of whether member mods would still be needed was serious. The place I read it - I THINK earlier in this thread - it sounded sarcastic to me. Kind of "you took our mods so you still want us" kind of thing. I say that not to say it was definitely that but it might have been taken like that - protest question - my smart alecky kids might say "am I allowed to take out the garbage Dad....since I am um....grounded. (if you have smart alecky teenagers probably had one of those type questions ).

The report button is still there and by numerous accounts the mods are monitoring reports and acting on them. The answer is kinda obvious.

B) You never specified and it probably was not me but just in case -I am not aware of any non mod member with special contact with management. My own contact was very limited. I told a joke in a thread that alaister got (rare round these parts) and he PMed me to tell me it was funny. Very short conversation after that - the end. The idea that special connections or relationships are going to be forged with a corporation in charge is probably illusionary. I've seen some people think thats a minus but I like it. levels the playing field for everyone and removes friendship politics.


Mike Anthony is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Anthony For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 02:23 PM   #78
Robert Andrew
War Room Member
 
discrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 7,537
Thanks: 7,087
Thanked 6,691 Times in 4,257 Posts
Blog Entries: 29
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I can tell you I have nothing but praise for the new Mods.

Not ONE time did I ever have a Mod in the past ( in the old days) personally PM me as to why a Thread/Post of mine was deleted.

Well, last week it happened THREE times !! They explained the reason for the deletion. And it made perfect sense.

One was for a Thread I started that was an announcement of the third EBola case in NY city.

The Mod PMed me that there was already a Thread containing all the thoughts and commentary on Ebola and as a result deleted mine. Which made perfect sense

Another deletion was one where I quoted a Spammer and then made a derogatory comment to the Spammer.
Again, the Mod PMed me and explained that all Quotes containing Spam are Deleted.

The third deletion was PMed by a Mod who said because the Post right before mine was deleted and it was inflammatory and I had it in Quotes that it was deleted too . Which I was fine with.

Anyway,like I say for what it is worth Paul and no one else from the Old Guard EVER ( to me at least) went out of their way to PM me when a Thread or Post of mine was deleted.

NEVER !!

And I had plenty of Posts deleted in last 6.5 years

I know these old Mods were limited in that they were NOT paid. And it was strictly volunteer work. I get that. I also realize PMing every single deleted Post/Thread would probably be just downright unreasonable and a waste of the time they were only volunteering for.

So I am not saying this makes the Old Guard not quality Mods, and Iam not saying they were necessarily worse than these new ones. EDIT : Actually, I also meant to add that they did an excellent , excellent job for what they had to work with. Very professional, imo !!


But it is what it is.

And needless to say I am impressed by these New Mods
I think they deserve a shot at proving themselves, just like the next guy.
discrat is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 02:37 PM   #79
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Robert,

The limit was mostly time.

For most of the time you've been a member there were only 2 or 3 people (outside the sections with dedicated mods) actively doing all the non-tech things that needed done here. There are now over a dozen people doing those same things. And they don't have their own businesses to run on top of moderating, as far as I know.


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Paul Myers For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 03:14 PM   #80
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Dennis Gaskill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA.
Posts: 4,730
Thanks: 5,687
Thanked 8,918 Times in 4,581 Posts
Blog Entries: 2
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Why participate in the process, why report posts? I'm not going to train their moderators on what spam looks like when they had perfectly capable, knowledgeable mods in place to begin with.
You can do as you see fit, of course, but if you and enough others change your reporting habits, it seems obvious to me that will result in an increase in objectionable threads remaining longer, and more that will be missed entirely. The old mods - read, the forum - depended on member moderators before the forum was sold. It's no less important now.

Even though there are more mods now, they aren't as experienced. Reading the reported posts is part of the learning experience for them. Overall they're doing a good job, but when others stop reporting the things they used to report, it makes their job harder.

Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
Dennis Gaskill is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Gaskill For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 03:16 PM   #81
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

So if that's the message in moderation, from the moderators - why bother pointing things out at all? I'm wasting my time, their time, the spammers time... screw it.
My man sorry but you are overreacting and I will tell you exactly why - the new mods working on their own are still new to this and you must expect a learning curve. Its pretty obvious that that is all it is for the simple fact that there is just no way a corporation like freelancer investing millions and looking for profit (like all of us) is going to want or continue to allow free ads to be placed just because they have no links. Its just a nonstarter so it will be ironed out


Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

Failure to connect with members on their level is a big mistake in my opinion. To be blunt - it's starting to feel like an "old boy's club" in here and we got rid of that attitude years ago.
Wow! Missed this before Kay. Its really illustrative of how relationships and perspectives can be very different so maybe we all should look at our perspectives because if you asked someone else. Say me. I would say we started getting rid of that a few days ago and the idea that it was years ago is really quite funny.


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 03:37 PM   #82
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Kay King's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15,678
Thanks: 29,082
Thanked 28,002 Times in 13,340 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

That's why I said "in my opinion" - what I'm seeing, my experience, my observation, my impressions, etc.

I don't ask that anyone agree with me - but you don't get to tell me which of MY opinions and MY experiences are valid. That's YOUR opinion and you're welcome to it.

Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
***
Please do not 'release balloons' for celebrations. The balloons and trailing ribbons entangle birds and kill wildlife and livestock that think the balloons are food.
Kay King is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 03:54 PM   #83
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

That's why I said "in my opinion" - what I'm seeing, my experience, my observation, my impressions, etc.

I don't ask that anyone agree with me - but you don't get to tell me which of MY opinions and MY experiences are valid. That's YOUR opinion and you're welcome to it.
Try not to explode but Unfortunately/fortunately disagreeing with an opinion is as covered under free speech as stating one. Thats with or without a request. Kind of like you telling me there was a "disconnect" in my point without me asking.

P.S. you stated having got rid of "the club" years ago in words indicative of a fact. as such I was free to disagree and did. Thats all.


Mike Anthony is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Mike Anthony For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:00 PM   #84
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2002
Location: Over Yonder
Posts: 3,853
Thanks: 3,374
Thanked 5,419 Times in 2,572 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I can see your point about the sarcastic part. However, let's look at the other side.

WF had a number of experienced (both in being a mod and in running a business/knowing the business), volunteer moderators that they decided to let go. Of course there are a lot of reasons for this I'm sure and in the end it's their decision.

The only reason that I can see that makes sense though is that they felt that the old mods were out of control, too lenient, too strict, too much of a good old boys club, bad attitude towards FL, or other type things. If it was an attitude type issue then the best bet may be to cut the strings completely.

Or maybe they just wanted something new - for no reason at all except they just wanted something new like the new post icons.

They could have handled security and other things virtually - lots of other companies do it. They could have given job offers to the experienced mods to work at a distance.
They could have given the old mods the same training about the new FL way just like they did the new mods. Etc. Etc. Etc.

But they chose to get rid of free help and use only paid help. That gives the impression to some of us - not in a smart alecky type way but a real life way - that:

1. They have plenty of money and want to spend their money to get the forum moderated according to their company standards.
2. They don't need or want free help. This idea is strengthened by no one answering the question.

For example, do they want Paul or Rod to report posts? They were handling posts that were spam and then told "thanks but no thanks." They are members and still frequent the forum.

3. The report icons are still there but that doesn't mean they encourage its use. They just may have not figured out how to change it to take it off yet.

It's kind of like a small office where the management decides to hire a cleaning crew to come in twice a week to clean. Previously the employees were cleaning it themselves.

Of course, each employee should continue to throw away their own coffee cup, or if they make a mess clean it up. That's common decency.

However, they don't have a responsibility now towards other's messes or the restrooms or the kitchen. The company has hired a crew to handle that.

In the case of the forum - the posts we report are the other people's messes.

So I can see where a legitimate question about the rules going forward can be here for those that have no bad feeling towards FL in the least and no bad feelings toward the old mods or the changeover but are just interested in preserving and building this great resource.

Mark

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

A) I haven't read all the places you referred to but I am a little (not much) surprised to read that the question of whether member mods would still be needed was serious. The place I read it - I THINK earlier in this thread - it sounded sarcastic to me. Kind of "you took our mods so you still want us" kind of thing. I say that not to say it was definitely that but it might have been taken like that - protest question - my smart alecky kids might say "am I allowed to take out the garbage Dad....since I am um....grounded. (if you have smart alecky teenagers probably had one of those type questions ).

The report button is still there and by numerous accounts the mods are monitoring reports and acting on them. The answer is kinda obvious.
Mark Singletary is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mark Singletary For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:07 PM   #85
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

There will always be the perception of an "old boys network" as long as there's a consistent philosophy included in the moderation process. Those who agree with it won't feel like the OBN exists, and those who don't are more likely to feel excluded, which suggests some deliberate intent that may or may not exist.

It's part of every social dynamic.

Sometimes it will be even less "official" in nature. Depending on the topic, Main Discussion has at least 3 separate OBNs, composed entirely of members who post most frequently and convincingly on those topics.

If the mod(s) and a majority of the active participants in any specific section agree, the perception will be inevitable. The intent, on the other hand, is a whole different discussion.


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Paul Myers For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:18 PM   #86
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
godoveryou's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 807
Thanks: 72
Thanked 300 Times in 215 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

You can do as you see fit, of course, but if you and enough others change your reporting habits, it seems obvious to me that will result in an increase in objectionable threads remaining longer, and more that will be missed entirely. The old mods - read, the forum - depended on member moderators before the forum was sold. It's no less important now.
Yes, that is the obvious result. I don't see why it's any less obvious that when posts are reported and the issue is mishandled that people would be less inclined to report posts in the future. To me, both of these things are obvious - hence my immediate identification of the obvious result of this decision and how it was executed.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

Even though there are more mods now, they aren't as experienced. Reading the reported posts is part of the learning experience for them. Overall they're doing a good job, but when others stop reporting the things they used to report, it makes their job harder.
I feel your position places an unfair expectation and burden on the experienced members to thanklessly train the new mods over a longer, extended period of time while hoping that they make the right calls in the process. I'm sorry but I'm not going to help train ill-suited* replacements, especially when that 'training' yields poor results and additional frustration in the process. Maybe I'd feel a bit differently about the situation if the above-referenced spammer didn't gloat about simply needing to remove links to repost his sales copy. However, as the person reporting it - to see the ball not just dropped but then kicked in my face was too much. Why would I ever report a post again? The immediate lesson was that there is no benefit to doing it simply because the mods don't understand what they are looking at.

And how many mods are there anyways? 5, 10, 24? If I report 10 posts, that means on average .5-1 mod will be exposed to the problem being reported per 10 reported posts I make? Since this is something that is going to take them quite awhile to learn in the SEO section, your theory suggests that I'm just supposed to hang around reporting posts for them in the hopes that maybe 1 finally notices a pattern... at some point?? Which of course, that pattern recognition will be slowed considerably when you take into account the diluted sample by the number of falsely reported posts from people who just didn't like what someone had to say and there was no real issue present.

Really, if that's the case then just make me a mod and cut out the middle man. I don't want to be a mod for the record, but how many months should I spend trying to impart my knowledge without ever knowing if it will actually make a meaningful impact on just one of them at any point in the near future?

You see, there is a huge hole in the theory that the membership is responsible for training the moderators. It's not even worth entertaining.

*Ill-suited in the sense that they lack the required knowledge of the subject matters at hand to do the job effectively. This is not debatable at this point, it has been demonstrated.

Don't Know Me? - Read my interview at Matthewwoodward.co.uk
http://www.godoveryou.com/
godoveryou is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:23 PM   #87
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 16,867
Thanks: 5,866
Thanked 13,116 Times in 6,983 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

The disconnect is in your mind Kay. I referred to one thing being modded as it was before not generally. Seeing how there is a back and forth in this very thread between Suzanne and I regarding me saying new rules should be less draconian in regard to what promotions is - all I can gather is that you have quite the active imagination.
There is no back and forth between you and I. You and I were both told via pm to stop, so if you don't mind, keep my name out of it.
sbucciarel is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:25 PM   #88
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Godoveryou,

The percentage of mods who see any individual report is often much higher than you think. It's not uncommon for mods to leave a note with a report, explaining what they did and why. Other mods will often discuss the decision, or ask for more info.

Plus, the new mods all work in the same office. I have no doubt they communicate directly on these things, too


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:27 PM   #89
Banned
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2007
Location: Virginia, USA.
Posts: 16,867
Thanks: 5,866
Thanked 13,116 Times in 6,983 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

You can do as you see fit, of course, but if you and enough others change your reporting habits, it seems obvious to me that will result in an increase in objectionable threads remaining longer, and more that will be missed entirely. The old mods - read, the forum - depended on member moderators before the forum was sold. It's no less important now.

Even though there are more mods now, they aren't as experienced. Reading the reported posts is part of the learning experience for them. Overall they're doing a good job, but when others stop reporting the things they used to report, it makes their job harder.
The thing is Dennis is that the question has been asked over and over again if the new owners want member moderators to continue reporting. All we've gotten for an answer is the sound of crickets chirping. It's a yes no question. Not too difficult to answer I wouldn't think. With the old mods, I've received pms from at least 4 of them thanking me for helping out, so I always felt it was both needed and appreciated.
sbucciarel is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to sbucciarel For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:33 PM   #90
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
godoveryou's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 807
Thanks: 72
Thanked 300 Times in 215 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

Godoveryou,

The percentage of mods who see any individual report is often much higher than you think. It's not uncommon for mods to leave a note with a report, explaining what they did and why. Other mods will often discuss the decision, or ask for more info.

Plus, the new mods all work in the same office. I have no doubt they communicate directly on these things, too


Paul
Fair.

Then one element of my standpoint may be inaccurate - I'm perfectly agreeable that there may be an error there. None the less, I would hold the view that the majority of the reasoning remains intact.

Don't Know Me? - Read my interview at Matthewwoodward.co.uk
http://www.godoveryou.com/
godoveryou is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:39 PM   #91
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Godoveryou,

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of that post at this point. It's largely a personal choice, and a lot of it will depend on implementation. Just thought that might be a useful thing to know. It's not something most people would ever think would happen if they hadn't seen the system from behind the mod curtain.


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:42 PM   #92
Advanced Warrior
War Room Member
 
godoveryou's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Posts: 807
Thanks: 72
Thanked 300 Times in 215 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

Godoveryou,

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of that post at this point. It's largely a personal choice, and a lot of it will depend on implementation. Just thought that might be a useful thing to know. It's not something most people would ever think would happen if they hadn't seen the system from behind the mod curtain.


Paul
Your position is understood. I wasn't trying to pin you into a stance on it

Don't Know Me? - Read my interview at Matthewwoodward.co.uk
http://www.godoveryou.com/
godoveryou is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 04:51 PM   #93
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 1997
Location: Erie, PA
Posts: 9,051
Thanks: 2,899
Thanked 17,183 Times in 4,875 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Godoveryou,
Your position is understood. I wasn't trying to pin you into a stance on it
[chuckle] I'm perfectly happy to state one, but it would have so many "if this, then that" qualifications that it would sound more like waffling than posting an opinion.

Too many variables, and too little clarity on the goals and philosophy for me to do more than speculate at this point.

It's evolving. A lot of the things people objected to most, including myself, are the result of a much simpler cause than was often considered. Alaister is in the unenviable position of trying to balance the expectations of a corporate hierarchy with the very real-time demands of an active forum.

Not a simple juggling act, at all.


Paul

.
Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

Paul Myers is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 05:36 PM   #94
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

The only reason that I can see that makes sense though is that they felt that the old mods were out of control, too lenient, too strict, too much of a good old boys club, bad attitude towards FL, or other type things. Or maybe they just wanted something new - for no reason at all except they just wanted something new like the new post icons.
Nope it isn't the only thing that makes sense. and I am curious why this is still persisting since I am almost sure i have read Paul state the real reason on this forum as I have read it elsewhere

Its Freelancers internal pre existing policy that their mods be employees. You really can't expect a corporation to buy somewhere and not follow their own policy. Clearly they also want local employees not just virtual. A lot of you are taking this very personal rather than looking it is as business. This is how they do business. They want to manage day to day operations with employees and they want those employees to be local on the spot. They are not at all unusual either among corporations. You would probably frighten the life out of most corporate boards if the CEO was asked

"So who is running the day to day operations?"
"well we have volunteers"
"and how were they picked and what is their qualifications?"
"oh well they were picked by the previous owner and are old time members who modded there"
"and you have confidence in nonpaid volunteers you never picked running the place?"
"Yes"
"then why should we have confidence in you?"

Worse if members of the board visited and saw old time members trashing the life out of the CEO and Freelancer constantly griping and mentioning the previous owner as doing everything better (supposedly).

Heads would probably roll at the first sign of problems. This buy it and leave us alone mentality is just not real world. You can't blame Freelancer for that.

1. They have plenty of money and want to spend their money to get the forum moderated according to their company standards.
Like any company in the world. Is your argument really that they should shell out millions with no desire to make sure their company's standards and vision are met? Really?


For example, do they want Paul or Rod to report posts? They were handling posts that were spam and then told "thanks but no thanks." They are members and still frequent the forum.
I don't know the details of that but as you put it on the face of it I would say - perfectly understandable. Lets leave out the present atmosphere. What president keeps the former chief of staff around? You can't have two heads. Part of establishing new leadership is the old leadership has to step aside. I know nothing of Rod but Paul was the head honcho and his presence internally does nothing good for new leadership.

Now if you are saying they just hit the button like anyone else and got the rebuff then I guess theres bad blood there. I could say why that might be but there would probably be a flame war again but I dunno about that part and I tend to think you would only be hearing one side yourself.

3. The report icons are still there but that doesn't mean they encourage its use. They just may have not figured out how to change it to take it off yet.
You were reasonable there for awhile but now its just back to I am offended and they are all evil foot stomping. Seriously, they not only have not removed the icons (and they have a programming staff that could do that in their sleep - thats easy even for me to do barely knowing VB) they are monitoring the reports and acting fast on them on many ocassions. That all proves you are just making things up there saying they might just have figured out how to remove it

the question of whether they still want and use member moderation by hitting the report button has beeen answered by action pretty conclusively. This "give us an answer" feels like its just a point abd protest being made. the two are not even connected. Changing old mods implies nowhere they don't want members to report issues. Proof is in the pudding

This whole you pay for it and we run it the way we want is so fantasy land though my man. Corporate business isn't the NBA and even Marc Cuban gets involved so it doesn't work that way there either. You might not like it but to make it personal is off. They are following their policy as I understand it


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 05:41 PM   #95
VIP Warrior
War Room Member
 
Mike Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2009
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,249
Thanks: 1,836
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,951 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

There is no back and forth between you and I. You and I were both told via pm to stop, so if you don't mind, keep my name out of it.
I was referencing actual posts that were not deemed necessary to remove talking about rule changes NOT getting into what was removed or what we were admonished about subsequently. You however are now flame baiting which violates what you were told by PM


Mike Anthony is offline  
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 06:01 PM   #96
Robert Andrew
War Room Member
 
discrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: 2008
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 7,537
Thanks: 7,087
Thanked 6,691 Times in 4,257 Posts
Blog Entries: 29
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

I see these times as a really exciting time at Warrior Forum


I embrace change in general and this is no different. We get to see first hand how a multi million dollar company gets to operate first hand. And we get to work in tandem with them as some of us here use WF as a place to assist in building our own Online Businesses

Seems like a win-win to me
discrat is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to discrat For This Useful Post:
Unread 27th Oct 2014, 06:22 PM   #97
HyperActive Warrior
War Room Member
 
Join Date: 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 128
Thanks: 48
Thanked 241 Times in 116 Posts
Default
Re: Warrior Forum Moderator Updates
Share on: 
fb share twitter share gplus share more share

Originally Posted by Alaister View Post

Thank you for openly discussing this change and providing feedback on what has happened. The decision to have the forum moderated by our staff moderators was definitely not an easy one and is in no way a reflection of the old moderators. As I mentioned in my original post, they have done an amazing job and we truly appreciate their dedication over the years.

It's really great that you have all shared your thoughts, thanked the old moderators and discussed the changes. However this thread has started to go of topic and divide to community which is of no benefit to anyone.

Please keep further discussions here on topic. I've also sent a PM message to some of you.

We hope you can give our new moderators and staff the same respect you did for the old ones.
Thank you all for your input.
danieljb is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to danieljb For This Useful Post:
Closed Thread


Bookmarks

Tags
forum, moderator, updates, warrior


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:54 AM.