9th Jan 2015, 12:44 PM | #201 | |
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Ironic indeed. I searched for the WSO with the title of that screenshot and nothing comes up in either Google or WarPay Marketplace. It appears to be a completely made up screenshot. | |
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9th Jan 2015, 01:24 PM | #202 |
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| Rule #17: Income Claims & Guarantees Sellers that make income claims may be asked to provide proof of income prior to their offer being approved. Sellers are strictly prohibited from offering income guarantees. This will be strictly enforced to protect the Warrior community. I must admit I'm a bit bemused by this. Warrior payments has only been about for 5 minutes, so established Warriors really aren't going to be able to provide proof using this. I personally have a ton of income proof from JVZoo, Warrior+ and Paypal screenshots but I'm not allowed to use any of it. So I can't actually prove to anyone that I've ever even earned a single dollar online, when I've actually been around earning for several years! I'm all for keeping the forum clean but this is a bit nuts |
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9th Jan 2015, 01:49 PM | #203 | |
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Let me be very clear. I have no issue with you disagreeing with the policy. What I think its pretty outrageous and disgraceful is you and a few others implying the changes to income claims were a money grab to lock in WP. Its both outrageous and silly. However it does speak to what I have said before (and wonder when Fl will figure it out) They can't win for trying with a certain group. they do clean up but make one little exception about WP and bam!! - ulterior motive accusations of why they cleaned up come flowing in I don't know your upbringing but where I come from if you are going to stand on someones property and claim to know their motivations you better be down right sure there are no other explanations. I have cited three times today a perfectly legit explanation for why they came up with that exception simply because it was the only income they could verify (an d it is). Apparently you will have none of it because you want to claim its all about promoting WP and that feeds into th e evil corporation narrative But Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Cut out a chunk load of income from present offers just to make a few pennies on WSOs about WSO. ROFL.... such a silly accusation. Again not the argument against the income claim rules itself but the ever increasing slander/insinuation that it was just for forcing WP. For shame. | |
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9th Jan 2015, 02:22 PM | #204 | ||
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Now with the main issue highlighted to your other points
Fact or not? If someone is selling how to do WSOs does the income made from selling WSOs confirm they know how to do so? Yes it does no matter how you complain - so your claim it does nothing is total nonsense. it shows they can do WSOs. How can that be verified by WF with JVzoo and W+?? (I hear crickets). Well again no matter how you complain it can't be because they do not have access BECAUSE THEY DO NOT OWN OR OPERATE those external third party systems. The silly self serving amnesia thing about it is that when the rules first came out there was nothing about WP. When people complained they would not be able to verify using screenshots they then came to WP wording. So they are getting accused in part because they listened to the community saying verification with screen shots wouldn't work.
Still the idea that the management that actually is cleaning up income claims is exacerbating it is kind of funny especially when you reference the years you advocated it and nothing was done before them. they should get credit but nah......they only did it to get those pennies from WP related to WSOs. they are going to be rich | ||
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9th Jan 2015, 02:52 PM | #205 |
Brian Kindsvater War Room Member Join Date: 2004 Location: Sparta
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Mike, I can think of numerous ways income claims can be proven. That's not the point. If income claims are to be banned to clean things up - great. But ban them all. Let me add - the proper reference should be "results" claims, not just income claims. Don't make an "exception" for products sold via Warrior Payments because the gross sales amount is irrelevant. I've given examples and analysis, all of which you ignore in a zeal to make a personal attack. The issue really is what is wrong with income claims? Is it because what seller made cannot be verified? Or is it because even if the seller did make that amount it does not represent what the typical buyer will make from using the product? As for discussing the issue and trying to explain why the policy is misplaced and should be changed, that is what forums are for. That is why an email was sent this morning linking to this thread so there could be feedback and discussion. Freelancer are big boys and don't need you making absurd threats about coming into someone's home and slandering them. You're out of line. If you want to discuss why income claims are good/bad, and whether the new rule promotes good policy, that is fine. Let me suggest this to keep this in the proper place. Assume Product #1 sells for $10 and makes 100 sales via Warrior Payments or $1000. Assume Product #2 sells for $6 and makes 100 sales via Acme Payments or $600. What is the relevance to the amount of gross revenue for either product when it comes to selling Product #3 via a WSO? I am saying there is none. Neither income claim should be allowed because either improperly suggests how much money a buyer will make from using the product. You ask, has the forum at least moved in the right direction by at least banning an income claim related to Product #2? Maybe. Maybe not. The reason why not is because a seller can now point to the $1000 income claim and advertise this is a "verified" income claim expressly approved by the Warrior Forum. So not only is the seller making the income claim, implicitly the forum is too. Consider this scenario: Black Hat Seller uses Warrior Payments as the payment processor for a product on their own web page. The product is not even publicly available to be sold. Seller pays himself $1500 buying his own product. Warrior Payments shows gross revenue of $1500. (Remember, Warrior Payments can be used for more than just WSOs. Payment buttons can be used offsite.) Black Hat Seller is now in a position to sell his product as a WSO making a $1500 income claim solely because he used Warrior Payments. Buyers are duped because this is a "verified" income claim authorized by the forum. My thought about the new policy has several components: 1. The problem with income claims is not that the seller cannot verify their income, but the buyer is induced to buy thinking that is how much they will make, and that doesn't happen. That is why the FTC wants "typical" results for buyers - not a verification of what the seller made. If the seller did not make that money that is a different fraud issue. 2. Gross revenue numbers are irrelevant. 3. If anything, buyers are at a worse risk of buying scammy products because, effectively, there is what some could say a "Warrior Forum Seal of Approval" for irrelevant and potentially fraudulent income claims. . |
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9th Jan 2015, 03:28 PM | #206 |
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Kindsvater if you want to make statements about what Freelancer 's motivation is like you can read minds then you'll just have to live with people calling you out on your evidence (or lack thereof) for your accusations. You won't be telling me (especially not me)what the issues I can talk about are and are not after that doozy. You can go start your own forum for that.Just stick to the point and skip the mind reading and slanderous accusations against Warrior Forums and we would not be on the issue at all. and public request. Stop making up lies....I at no point made any threat. I used an analogy. If you don't know the difference thats even sadder. |
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9th Jan 2015, 03:36 PM | #207 |
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Mike Anthony, can you please comment on the issue regarding moving offers to sub-forums . Se my post: http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ml#post9798963 thanks Frank |
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9th Jan 2015, 03:48 PM | #208 | |
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Mike, I hope you can take your own advice and lay off the constant mind reading you have going on regarding those of us that have anything negative or critical (constructive or otherwise) to say about the forum. You bring up over and over that we are anti-FL, or have a case of the sour grapes, or we are upset that the forum has new owners, or are part of a good old boys type club. Yet you don't know anyone's motivation and so please don't pretend that you do. I don't know of anyone that is anti-FL but I know a lot of people don't like some of the changes that have been made (or not made). It's not the same thing. Many of the people making suggestions and comments and complaints have also thanked FL for the good things they are doing. And most of the main ones discussing these issues also were involved in complaints and criticism before under the previous administration. Mark
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9th Jan 2015, 04:01 PM | #209 | ||
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Now as to whether Anti - FL or bigfoot or the island of Barbados actually exists we can have that discussion another place. Suffice to say I don't think that requires mindreading at all given the amount of posts and statements that have been made. reading and hearing speech is not mind reading. I follow my own advice just fine - to make such accusations of management DIRECTLY indicates there is a distrust of them. You can pretend as you like but it does not meet the definition of mind reading. Sorry. If you think that its constructive to make up these accusations then we have different definitions of constructive. I'm saying that to you because you seem to have defined yourself in a "we" I never defined and wouldn't define as anyone who had criticisms since ummm ...I've had my own. Its also fair to say I am saying it to you because well you read through all the accusations and had nothing you thought worthy to respond to until you came to my objections to the accusations. Timing sometimes is everything. | ||
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9th Jan 2015, 04:41 PM | #210 | |
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I'll bet Freelancer will be open to it given its a lot less work than moving them. | |
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9th Jan 2015, 04:47 PM | #211 | |
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Sounds like a fair resolution, thanks for your comment.
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9th Jan 2015, 04:48 PM | #212 | |
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Cheers -don | |
9th Jan 2015, 04:50 PM | #213 |
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All you've managed to prove to anyone with your arguments is that you believe or have implied you believe that those who have posted logically and factually valid arguments against the rules are somehow engaging in some sort of anti-FL conspiracy. You are literally just making up a theory as the basis for your argument. Your responses zealously ignore valid points and arguments while taking other portions of posts out of context in order to fit your own made up theories about the posts and/or opinion of others. Meh... I don't know why I'm even bothering to point out the obvious to you. It will just got over your head and you'll continue one with more inane BS that doesn't make any sense. Carry on, your genius is amusing me. |
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9th Jan 2015, 04:57 PM | #214 | |
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It's a big job mainly because WSO's now run forever. If they had an expiration date, it would be easier to make the change but if they stick with it - eventually all WSOs will be in compliance. I see good reasons for the new rules - I see problems that might arise. Anyone here should be able to express their opinion without another member (not a mod, not an admin) making snide personal remarks. Everyone working on this WF has been polite and professional in their responses. If you want to support them, you might try the same level of professionalism. kay | |
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9th Jan 2015, 04:58 PM | #215 | |
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He's talking about SEO and outside direct traffic through links to those pages . Once you move the ads under new forum headings the links will be broken and they also will not rank in google searches the same. The forum itself will lose that traffic as it will result in a 404 error so there is a bit of self interest for WF to preserve them (they would have to assess what the traffic lost based on their own stats) All sellers being moved could have that and all sellers are not affected by the same rules - only some kin d of offers are due to be moved. | |
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9th Jan 2015, 05:01 PM | #216 | |||
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P.S. why it needs explanation I have no idea but I am quite accustomed now to getting flamed for disagreeing with false accusations against FL. The flame retardant suit works so well its like the AC is on with Bermuda shorts. Still additional testing never hurts so by all means | |||
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9th Jan 2015, 05:11 PM | #217 |
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Cleaning up expired ,outdated or abandoned WSO's is one thing , getting rid of active service offers ( Classified Ads) generating loads of direct traffic is another. |
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9th Jan 2015, 05:35 PM | #218 |
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And the entertainment continues as predicted. |
9th Jan 2015, 05:43 PM | #219 | |||
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It appears as if you may be trying to get a bit snide and/or personal, Kay. Cheers -don | |||
9th Jan 2015, 05:48 PM | #220 |
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After reading this stuff about the new rule on income guarantee, i'm in a bit of a tricky situation. The concept of my Wso is actually based on the fact that i promote other people's affiliate link on the Wso page so they can get their first sale for a certain service. So how am i supposed to formulate the fact that i will help people get their first sale if i can't make an income guarantee? Any mods here want to help me out on this one? I hope it's not illegal to help people make money... Thanks, Jens |
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9th Jan 2015, 05:51 PM | #221 | |
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Cheers -don | |
9th Jan 2015, 05:52 PM | #222 |
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You could do a redirect based on the new paths. Not sure how that works in VB. the problem is you are moving to different forums and paths FREE and Services and that would get pretty tricky. In fact I don't think that could be done I'd rest easy my man. I think that was a snide (definitely) swipe at me for daring to object to snide comments against management. |
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9th Jan 2015, 05:55 PM | #223 |
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No, Don, not aimed at you. I understand people get heated on subjects like this - because it can affect income. But some are getting too personal in their defense of the changes here and it doesn't help if anger ends up being the go-to. I expect you agree with that. Mgmt has taken on a big job - but it's big because no one bothered to do anything about it until now. It may be messy for a while but eventually with adjustments and common sense, it should all fall into place. |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:01 PM | #224 | ||
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If no other means is available, the BB Code from each post could be moved manually to a manually created new thread. It would be a lot of work, but it could be done.
Cheers -don | ||
9th Jan 2015, 06:06 PM | #225 | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:07 PM | #226 |
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thats the convenient thing about it though. Its always personal when its a defense of changes but never characterized as personal when its in an attack on changes or accusations made about them. let those go by without rebuttal and everything is fine and dandy.
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9th Jan 2015, 06:13 PM | #227 | |
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Cheers -don | |
9th Jan 2015, 06:14 PM | #228 | |
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the redirect cannot determine what is a free offer and what is a service offer. Only a human would be able to identify them. Thats where the trickiness would be. | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:16 PM | #229 |
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Mike, I don't think anyone is suggesting your defense of the new management is out of place. You're an intelligent man. I would bet you can express exactly the same ideas without questioning the intelligence of those who disagree with you or see things differently. I'm betting if you let some of that anger subside, you'd see the potential for other rational perspectives, too. Not that you would (or should) necessarily agree with them, but you'd see them. And that's Useful. Paul |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:17 PM | #230 | |
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Even doing a manual move you could still set up a server-side 301 using the old URL and a manually created new thread, but that should not be necessary. Cheers -don | |
9th Jan 2015, 06:24 PM | #231 | |
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Don,
The forum software looks for the thread number, which is why you can move things around and change titles without the links breaking internally. vBulletin doesn't care what words are in the URL. SEs do. If you even change the title while leaving everything else intact, the SEs will no longer recognize it as the same URL. (At least that's my understanding of it...) Paul | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:25 PM | #232 | |
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Thats what I thought but I can't recall doing any SEO work for a forum. so in that case whatever traffic would be lost (have no idea if its significant) | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:29 PM | #233 | ||
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Cheers -don | ||
9th Jan 2015, 06:32 PM | #234 | |
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Don,
When they changed the name of one of the sections a while back, an absolute ton of links dropped out of the SERPs. If moving them has the same effect (and I'm not sure if it would or not), it would be pretty drastic. Paul | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:34 PM | #235 |
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Thanks everyone for contributing to the URL move subject. BTW, Is there a limit on how many Thanks I can givein a day or something. The Button diapered on my just while ago.. |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:36 PM | #236 | |
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We are not talking about changing titles or names if the threads are moved via ID# --> the URL, the content, and the thread title will still look the same to the search engines. Cheers -don | |
9th Jan 2015, 06:42 PM | #239 |
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Exactly right, that's why I have not changed a single letter in the title of my sale thread since it was started 2.5 years ago.Otherwise the URL would change too and so would all the link juice, SERRPs,traffic and sales. |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:45 PM | #240 |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:47 PM | #241 | |
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I don't know which of those is correct, though. Paul | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:47 PM | #242 | |
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Someone comes on and blasts new management to bits - its constructive criticism because - "we care". I defend management and disagree with those attacking well - its personal and Mike's a dick (lol...not this thread but your usual charge). Kindvater went straight after my intelligence by saying what he was saying went "straight over my head". No biggie. Mike says an idea is silly well he needs to reconstruct that. Now in regard to emotion thats actually quite funny because wow some innuendos have been flowing because of emotion s regarding FL and how their cleaning up of the Wso secrion is just a play to FORCE WP payments. LoL...one of them even implied things in large red font (nothing emotional implied there) So my suggestion to you is. If you want to come across as reasonable and unbiased. speak to those doing attacking against any and all sides. When you and Mark read through all the other stuff and let your eyes slide past accusation in big red fonts to respond to me its a bit obvious its not unbiased at all. | |
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9th Jan 2015, 06:48 PM | #243 |
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@ Paul Yeah, true that on the new URL, and it would be nice to know how the board and the SEs are handling that redirect. The original title and the content remain the same and the original URL is still valid, so I figure it can still be crawled and that's gotta be sizable part of the equation. Cheers -don |
9th Jan 2015, 06:48 PM | #244 | |
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Cali,
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10th Jan 2015, 03:06 AM | #245 |
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Reading through the latter couple of pages of this thread, it appears to me that there has been strong suggestion that The Warrior Forum has been using false income claims and faked screenshots to entice people to pay to run a WSO. This seems to be an extremely serious accusation. Am I alone in finding this extremely disturbing? Also, it appears that it is breaking its own rules with testimonials about income that are unsubstantiated. What is probably more disturbing is the silence on these matters from the WF management. |
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10th Jan 2015, 04:26 AM | #246 | |
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10th Jan 2015, 07:27 AM | #247 | |
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They'll DEFINITELY Need to change that by the 12th. I am not as shocked as you though. Income claims have been the norm in IM and they may well have not rethought them until recently. That and I have confirmed myself people have made far far more than the figures shown marketing on WF. | |
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10th Jan 2015, 08:21 AM | #248 | |
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My computers log me in automatically here but I've also been using other family members' computers here and there so I've seen how persistent that popup is. | |
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10th Jan 2015, 12:42 PM | #249 | |
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10th Jan 2015, 01:42 PM | #250 | |
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Well look guys...this is a total "no win" situation for the management team now. I wouldn't expect them to answer at this point. No matter what they do... they are going to get flamed from someone. Either the "don't pull income claims" or the " do pull income claims" group is going to crush them. So any response they make will be picked apart word by word until 10 more pages are written about this. I just hope they come to the conclusion that pulling income claims sound good "on paper" but that ......overall.... it has a very negative long term effect on the warrior forum. They will have fewer sellers, fewer people buying wso's, and fewer people willing to pay for ad space on the forum. So really it boils down to how important revenue from wso's the and ad sales are to them. That's my 2 cents X
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offer, rules, special, warrior, wso |
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