Listwire optin for Wordpress

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Due to the discovery of Mailchimp's refusal to allow affiliate marketing lists, I am switching to Gary Ambrose's ListWire. Before you comment, I'm currently financially stretched and need a free autoresponder.

However, I have a blog with two sidebars (250px)and want to fit a ListWire optin in one as a widget.

No matter waht I try, the optin box is too wide or the side bar and looks hideous.

Can anybody advise the simplest way to fix this?

Thanks

Alan
#autoresponder #listwire #optin #wordpress
  • Profile picture of the author VaultBoss
    You say ListWire is free ... but isn't it financed by ADs instead?

    Just curious...
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      Originally Posted by VaultBoss View Post

      You say ListWire is free ... but isn't it financed by ADs instead?

      Just curious...
      Users don't pay for it, like $20+ per month.

      Doesn't that still make it free?

      Duh
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    Originally Posted by Alan Ashwood View Post

    Before you comment, I'm currently financially stretched and need a free autoresponder.
    Ok, heard you.

    Can we comment, now?

    Nobody "needs" a free autoresponder, Alan.

    People only imagine that they do, and that there'll be some long-term benefit to starting that way, and that in some meaningful sense it'll be better than not having one at all.

    Aweber charges $1 for the first month and $19 per month thereafter. If you're not covering $20 in two months, the reality is that you don't have a business at all, and that's not something that using a free autoresponder is somehow magically going to correct.

    Sorry - am being honest and realistic, not critical, I hasten to add.

    In my opinion, using a free autoresponder is one of the very most ill-advised and misguided things one can do, in internet marketing.

    Few people are more keen on list-building than I am, but I think for most people it's better to start without an autoresponder, temporarily, than it is to use a free one. And (unlike the situation with regard to free hosting), with autoresponders it IS specifically the fact they're free that causes the potential disasters/risks, in my view.

    The question you have to ask yourself is whether it can possibly be wise to entrust the safe-keeping and security of your business's greatest, most important and least replaceable asset (your list) to a company whose business model is that of being a free autoresponder. I think that it's generally right at the start of their internet marketing careers, when people understandably have the least judgement about such situations, and the least awareness of the facts and realities involved, that such mistakes tend to be made.

    I suspect that people imagine something along the lines of "Well, I can always start with a free autoresponder until I've made some money, and then make the switch to a better one". Usually, one can't easily do that. Moving established lists from one autoresponder company to another is typically hugely difficult, and very commonly results in all one's subscribers needing - at best - to opt in all over again. Many Warriors have commented here that they've lost between two-thirds and three-quarters of their lists, this way!

    Some people just shrug and say "Well, you can always back it up regularly, can't you?". Easily said. What are you going to do with it, after you've "backed it up"? How are you going to import it elsewhere? Who's going to allow you to import it elsewhere, and under what conditions? (People don't always think about these problems. But the experience of Warriors who have actually had to try to do this seems to me to point to its being something of a nightmare and a disaster).

    In the case of Mailchimp, obviously enough, the situation's very clear to anyone willing to make the effort to read their Terms of Service. In the case of other "free autoresponders" (of which there are several), it's usually very much less clear, unfortunately. Typically, those recommending one, in my opinion, are only recent list-builders themselves and may not yet be aware of some of the longer-term pitfalls.

    Some of these companies even attach to every email their customers send out to their lists a clickable link advertising their own free service! :p It's literally the autoresponder equivalent of having a little website advising people about <whatever> sitting at Yola, with a big clickable link at the bottom of the page advertising "Get your free website here with Yola".

    How professional does that look?!

    Some of these companies also don't yet have a very well established business model. Who really knows if they're still going to be there 3 years later? But if they're not, that can be an absolute disaster to your business!

    On previous occasions when I've made that point, someone with a financial interest in a "free autoresponder" business has replied, mentioning that I don't know that Aweber or GetResponse will still be there in 3 years' time, either. I honestly think this a pretty silly argument, because it should be clear to all of us that the odds are stacked in one's favour if one uses Aweber (for example) and against one if one uses a "free autoresponder".

    If necessary, I'd make a sale or two without having a list, and then start with Aweber when one has $1 to spare.

    The set-up costs even for internet marketing businesses which do everything professionally, right from the start, are absolutely minuscule ...

    My perspective only - there are others who disagree, of course. One or two of them are owners of free autoresponder businesses.

    And some others, I think, are pretty inexperienced and have maybe not yet encountered any problems - in contrast to others here whose warning-posts can readily be found with the search function, by those willing to look.
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    • Profile picture of the author VaultBoss
      Very good points, Alexa ..

      Although there would be a few things I personally think could be a bit different from what you presented.

      One such thing is that there is NO need to move one's list to a new AR once they've built it in a free AR in the first place, 'cause what can't be moved can still be mailed from within .. just sayin'...

      MailChimp would be a GREAT start-up, as it currently allows (600 or 1000?) people to be added free of charge and a certain number of emails (not many, but some) - however, I remember that when I reviewed them I found that their ToS specifically forbids affiliate marketing.

      So, unless one builds a list solely to promote their OWN products... MailChimp would be out of the question.

      On the other hand, I remember back when I started my IM journey, that I spent quite a lot of money from my own pocket to pay first for GR then for AW services, while in fact I was making less than I spent.

      Many people would face the same, so better NOT signup with any such service before you get a steady traffic flow that you could convert into signups, etc...

      On a completely different train of thoughts, personally I don't like ANY other third party company to have access and be able to dispose of MY assets, so I have switched to a self-hosted AR solution quite early in my IM career and never looked back since.
      I admit, though .. for most people this route could be tech challenging.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
        Originally Posted by VaultBoss View Post

        Very good points, Alexa ..


        One such thing is that there is NO need to move one's list to a new AR once they've built it in a free AR in the first place, 'cause what can't be moved can still be mailed from within .. just sayin'...
        Agreed

        MailChimp would be a GREAT start-up, as it currently allows (600 or 1000?) people to be added free of charge and a certain number of emails (not many, but some) - however, I remember that when I reviewed them I found that their ToS specifically forbids affiliate marketing.

        So, unless one builds a list solely to promote their OWN products... MailChimp would be out of the question
        .
        Mailchimp allows 2000 now, and who reads terms? Otherwise I agree

        Many people would face the same, so better NOT signup with any such service before you get a steady traffic flow that you could convert into signups, etc...
        The whole raison d'etre for my main blog is to help those people 'running on vapors' get started in IM. I even devoted a post just to autoresponders, as part of the IM Startup Toolkit. It covers Aweber, GetResponse, Mailchimp and ListWire, so newbies can cut their cloth according to their means.

        Thanks for your points.

        Alan
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Ok, heard you.

      Can we comment, now?

      Nobody "needs" a free autoresponder, Alan.

      People only imagine that they do, and that there'll be some long-term benefit to starting that way, and that in some meaningful sense it'll be better than not having one at all.

      Aweber charges $1 for the first month and $19 per month thereafter. If you're not covering $20 in two months, the reality is that you don't have a business at all, and that's not something that using a free autoresponder is somehow magically going to correct.

      Sorry - am being honest and realistic, not critical, I hasten to add.
      Hi Alexa. Now you know I respect your knowledge and views, and bow to your experience, however -

      Perhaps I should post a question: "How long have you been paying for an autoresponder but haven't made a cent yet?"
      What do you think the answer would be?

      Or: "How can I afford an autoresponder when I'm just starting my IM business, but haven't ANY availabe spare funds"?

      Alexa, you don't know my, or anyone else's financial situation, so I'm surprised that you launched in with your remark.

      I believe there are many situations which call for a free AR, especially for newcomers.

      The question you have to ask yourself is whether it can possibly be wise to entrust the safe-keeping and security of your business's greatest, most important and least replaceable asset (your list) to a company whose business model is that of being a free autoresponder. I think that it's generally right at the start of their internet marketing careers, when people understandably have the least judgement about such situations, and the least awareness of the facts and realities involved, that such mistakes tend to be made.

      I suspect that people imagine something along the lines of "Well, I can always start with a free autoresponder until I've made some money, and then make the switch to a better one".
      Sorry Alexa, I see nothing wrong with this view. Of course it's risky, but although you may not be able to move your first list, one assumes you now know how to list build, so you build new ones with the money you've already started to make. :confused:

      Usually, one can't easily do that. Moving established lists from one autoresponder company to another is typically hugely difficult, and very commonly results in all one's subscribers needing - at best - to opt in all over again. Many Warriors have commented here that they've lost between two-thirds and three-quarters of their lists, this way!
      I know of a couple of friends who did just that.
      They contacted their list, advised that they were switching to a new AR, and offered avery special incentive (unique to exisiting subscribers only), to re=sign a new optin. They tell me they lost about 20-25%. Then they allowed for the one-off freebie grabbers who'd long disappeared.

      Resulting loss? Minimal. :p


      Some of these companies even attach to every email their customers send out to their lists a clickable link advertising their own free service! :p It's literally the autoresponder equivalent of having a little website advising people about <whatever> sitting at Yola, with a big clickable link at the bottom of the page advertising "Get your free website here with Yola".

      How professional does that look?!
      I've recently clicked links using ListWire, and quite honestly, I don't care if there's an ad/logo for ListWire at the bottom. Anyway, Aweber uses that smarmy voice over telling you to confirm etc., etc. What's on the screen? An Aweber logo!

      [quote]On previous occasions when I've made that point, someone with a financial interest in a "free autoresponder" business has replied, mentioning that I don't know that Aweber or GetResponse will still be there in 3 years' time, either. I honestly think this a pretty silly argument, because it should be clear to all of us that the odds are stacked in one's favour if one uses Aweber (for example) and against one if one uses a "free autoresponder".[/quote]

      If necessary, I'd make a sale or two without having a list, and then start with Aweber when one has $1 to spare.
      Not if your selling from a mailing list you won't. Or do you know a magical way to get customers without building a list?

      The set-up costs even for internet marketing businesses which do everything professionally, right from the start, are absolutely minuscule ...
      Miniscule may be the difference between starting and not starting. Everyone deserves a crack at it, even if they eventually don't succeed.

      Still respect you Alexa. :

      Kisses
      Alan

      PS> Have you not seen the subject of my blog?
      You should read some of the PMs and emails I get. It may change your mind?
      PPS. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gary visits.
      PPPS. I wish someone would help with the original query.
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  • Profile picture of the author 4webmaster
    I landed here because I was searching same infos as I'm in same situation.
    I don't want to spend monthly $19 fees on a new project that will take time to have traffic and opt-ins, why drop $19 for 2 or more month before you make ROI with your "small" list to start. Also these $19/month can be useful for other main things like ads, seo, hosting....
    Don't get me wrong an autoresponder is better than nothing (reply to a member post above), the first thing is to get a list!
    Now what I will suggest to Alan is that I found a more affordable one named getresponse starting from $9.95/m you can upgrade if need.
    Aweber is the leader I think since most of my emails I've subscribe comes from this company but getresponse is 2nd I think.
    I tried listwire and mailchimp but some features or management were a bit what you can expect from free, ads are not a problem if it comes from the autoresponder co. because as you said you also see aweber or getresponse on footer of mailings. Of course I'll stay away if they put ads from other businesses.
    I'm still like you hesitating on getresponse (short on budget) or free ones but witch? Mailchimp or listwire.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      Originally Posted by 4webmaster View Post

      I landed here because I was searching same infos as I'm in same situation.
      I don't want to spend monthly $19 fees on a new project that will take time to have traffic and opt-ins, why drop $19 for 2 or more month before you make ROI with your "small" list to start. Also these $19/month can be useful for other main things like ads, seo, hosting....
      Don't get me wrong an autoresponder is better than nothing (reply to a member post above), the first thing is to get a list!
      Now what I will suggest to Alan is that I found a more affordable one named getresponse starting from $9.95/m you can upgrade if need.
      Aweber is the leader I think since most of my emails I've subscribe comes from this company but getresponse is 2nd I think.
      I tried listwire and mailchimp but some features or management were a bit what you can expect from free, ads are not a problem if it comes from the autoresponder co. because as you said you also see aweber or getresponse on footer of mailings. Of course I'll stay away if they put ads from other businesses.
      I'm still like you hesitating on getresponse (short on budget) or free ones but witch? Mailchimp or listwire.
      My post (on my blog) back in February covered the various AR solutions for each budget - broke to wealthy.

      If you're not planning to use it for affiliate marketing, then I suggest Mailchimp, although once you've got a list over 2000 you start paying.

      On the other hand Gary Ambrose's ListWire is always free. It's been around longer than people think, and it works.

      In fact, I think the Unofficial Guide to ListWire is better than all the fancy Mailchimp books and videos, which don't answer basic questions, and expect you to partake in one of their twice weekly seminars.

      I'm in the UK, and the seminars are at 3 o'clock in the morning!

      Yes, you do get an annoying page with some 'Gary Freebies' when you confirm, but simply click past these and your off.

      There are many more threads about ListWire on WF, which include comments by Mr Gary himself.

      I hope someone answers my original question sometime.

      Cheers

      Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    Do you know that listwire has their own forum? If you are signed up for listwire, you can register for the forum.

    I hung out there for a bit about a year ago. They do have faqs and there is a downloadable listwire user manual. It is just put together by one of the users, not the people who put listwire together, but it gets positive comments.

    One of those might be able to help with your questions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski View Post

      Do you know that listwire has their own forum? If you are signed up for listwire, you can register for the forum.

      I hung out there for a bit about a year ago. They do have faqs and there is a downloadable listwire user manual. It is just put together by one of the users, not the people who put listwire together, but it gets positive comments.

      One of those might be able to help with your questions.
      HI Lloyd and thanks for that.

      I'd completely forgotten about the forum.
      It's 3.45am, so I'll take a look tomorrow.

      Cheers
      Alan
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
    Alexa has a long, easy to find history of taking a dump on List Wire for no good reason... and I know she's had it out with at least 2 of our members, and me, via PM here at this forum.

    Her main point seems to center on the fact that we're a free service, and that somehow means that we're not financially stable...

    YouTube - Free Video Hosting
    Flickr - Free Image Hosting
    Google - Free Search Provider
    WordPress - Free Content Management Engine
    Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo Mail - Free Email Provider
    Skype - Free Communications Platform

    I'd guess that more than a few of you are using one, or more, of those free services to run portions of your business...

    They're all free to use, but no one said they aren't turning a profit. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... List Wire has been profitable from the first week we opened the thing. And I'll say this again too... I was one of the original 100-150 Warriors EVER, going back beyond 99.99% of all the members here.

    I'm not going anywhere.

    As for moving your lists to another provider... why in the world would you? They're already on the list, they're already opt'ed in, and it doesn't cost a cent to send emails to them. There's no per email cost, no per message cost... no cost at all.

    You could always move if you wanted to, but wouldn't the smarter decision be to open a new list at another provider, and start adding your new subscribers there? It's not an "either or" decision as some people are making it out to be...

    The best course of action is NEVER to ask someone to re-confirm... you're better asking them to re-subscribe at your new service, by sending a message out through your current service. That way you're only moving your best subscribers to the new service, and the ones most likely to respond to your emails, and least likely to get you in trouble with spam complaints.

    Anyway...

    Tens of thousands of users are more than happy with List Wire, and we get new UNSOLICITED testimonials daily...

    I can only say, sign up, check it out for yourself, and make your own decision.

    -Gary

    P.S. I'm going to add this in here...

    I'm not sure how far back this forum will allow you to go back in search history, but I'm sure you could probably find a few posts from ME personally trashing free autoresponders... which is one of the big reasons I decided something needed to be done.

    P.P.S. Again, List Wire wasn't a "spur of the moment" decision for me either... if anyone has access to the Butterfly Marketing Bonus CDs, listen to my interview, and you'll hear me mention List Wire, by name, in December of 2005. ( that's when the interview was recorded )

    I didn't jump into this blind... and if you ask around, I think you'll find a good number of people who think I'm actually doing a good thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Viramara
    Hi, Alan. Have you tried to cOntact the Listwire support? Or you can reach the Listwire custOmer forum. They will show you step by step.
    good luck.

    for Alexa _ I understand your point of view but there are tons of people out there who couldnt afford AR but wants to build list so they can start making mOney. I'm sure Gary Ambrose has a good intention to help this kind of people. If you can afford a good AR yourself, good for you and you can keep from the free ones. but how about people who's financially stretched? Aweber and iContact may give 1 dollar trial in first month but can your business, your list really break even and cover all only within 1 or 2 months? even if U make sales, will it be payout soon?
    But Alexa you've made a good point. I just tell from my point of view.
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    • Profile picture of the author cdiem72
      I agree with going with a free autoresponder. I'm a newbie and I'm not going to risk $$/month when I am not comfortable with my skills yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author virtualwhispers
    OMG you ask for help and you get opinions All he wanted to know is how to make it work in the sidebar... geeezz And Gary, you could have helped him with that... guess you forgot
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Ashwood
      Hi

      Me 'gain.

      I found the solution.

      Called List Wire 2 Wordpress by Grey Storm Media. it's a free add-on to modify a Listwire optin to Wordpress widget size.

      It's still a bit clumsy to use - but it works.

      The link above is not an affiliate code.

      I do think Gary could incorporate it into Listwire to make things easier. :confused:

      How about it Gary? I'm always supporting your stuff , and so do others.

      Cheers

      Alan

      UPDATE: The link above doesn't work any more. It linked to GreyStorm Media, who, for some reason, used to support Listwire elements, such as manuals, and plugins.
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