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I Want a Damn Good Website but Wordpress Won't Give It to Me

by JakeDaly
21 replies
  • WEB DESIGN
    • |
Wordpress seems like a wonderful, God-given tool. A great platform for small business owners to build a community around their message, build upon the core of their business. But, for the life of me, I can't buy or download a theme that even remotely gives my business a shred of credibility. That's not entirely true.. I've found a few. And there are a handful of good themes out there, I'll give you that. But then those themes don't do what I want them to. And that makes me angry.

"Go download one at Wordpress.com, ya dumb schlep, there's thousands of them."

...true, but most of them look like they were built by a 5-year old. And the ones that aren't impractical or entirely ugly simply aren't what I'm looking for. I realize part of the problem is that I don't really want a blog, I want a professional-looking theme for my business.

"There are sites like Themeforest or Elegant Themes where they sell affordable, professionally-designed themes."

...I've downloaded and bought quite a few of them, and while these themes are a step-above the rest, sure, half the time they have lackluster coding for SEO and the other half of the time, despite the fact that they're $30 apiece, they don't do what I want them to and their inflexibility requires my business to suffer.

The thing is.. I want Wordpress to adapt around my business. Must I hire a Wordpress designer to simply get a theme that looks clean and gives me great-looking content? A site like copyblogger.com, for example. Will the Genesis Framework allow me to finally build a site that allows me to put an opt-in where I want, my logo where I like it & structure my content however I please?

I feel like a lot of Wordpress fans will say 'Hey idiot, you can do that already! And some of those themes are free.' ... but the thing is, you can't do that already. Especially with the free themes. And at least with my limited Wordpress expertise, you can't do it very easily even with the expensive themes. I plan on uploading hundreds of articles centered around my copywriting business and all I really want is to build an attractive website to showcase my work and business, but Wordpress isn't letting me do that as easily as others make it sound.

P.S. It should be noted that I have no desire to return to HTML.. I guess I'm just ranting a little bit. I've been trying to look up reviews on the Genesis Framework or find examples of sites made with the Genesis framework, and am doing so with limited success. Is anyone else here using Genesis and can attest to it's functionality?
#damn #give #good #website #wordpress
  • Profile picture of the author Andrew H
    One has to remember that at its core wordpress is a blogging framework. Although it is making greater strides it still lacks the full site capabilities.

    Joomla is probably more along the lines of what you are looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Originally Posted by mcflause View Post

    One has to remember that at its core wordpress is a blogging framework. Although it is making greater strides it still lacks the full site capabilities.

    Joomla is probably more along the lines of what you are looking for.
    Pfft. The man is frustrated with WP, and you want to send him to Joomla? That's a sure recipe for the loony bin...

    Originally Posted by JakeDaly View Post


    ...I've downloaded and bought quite a few of them, and while these themes are a step-above the rest, sure, half the time they have lackluster coding for SEO what is 'lackluster coding for SEO'? and the other half of the time, despite the fact that they're $30 apiece, they don't do what I want them to and their inflexibility requires my business to suffer. Your business isn't suffering, your ego is

    ...Must I hire a Wordpress designer to simply get a theme that looks clean and gives me great-looking content? YES


    ...    A site like copyblogger.com, for example. Will the Genesis Framework allow me to finally build a site that allows me to put an opt-in where I want, my logo where I like it & structure my content however I please? NO

    I feel like a lot of Wordpress fans will say 'Hey idiot, you can do that already! And some of those themes are free.' ... but the thing is, you can't do that already. Especially with the free themes. And at least with my limited Wordpress expertise, you can't do it very easily even with the expensive themes. What is 'it' and 'that'? No tool does everything for everyone anytime
    ...

    P.S. It should be noted that I have no desire to return to HTML.. I guess I'm just ranting a little bit. I've been trying to look up reviews on the Genesis Framework or find examples of sites made with the Genesis framework, and am doing so with limited success. Is anyone else here using Genesis and can attest to it's functionality?
    Genesis is a good framework, as is Woo, as are several others.

    I'm sorry, but you're being really unreasonable in your expectations, and whining like a 3 year old.

    WP - and Joomla, Drupal, Expression Engine, and any other CMS - is just a tool for managing and displaying content. WP isn't keeping you from doing anything, your "limited Wordpress expertise" is.

    You can
    • learn enough about WP internals, PHP, HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to build a theme yourself using or not using a framework as a foundation
    • hire someone to do it for you, if you can't
    • find a pre-built theme that does most of what you want, and relax your requirements

    A WP theme can't do everything, just like one piece of software can't do everything. That's why there's word processors, image manipulation programs, vector drawing programs, mind-mapping programs, programs for this, programs for that.

    Have some realistic expectations, and your frustration level will probably fall back a few notches.
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    • Profile picture of the author JakeDaly
      Your pretty much right on all fronts, Steve. I'm probably over-analyzing it all but in my mind, if I just want a clean-looking theme that allows me to display good-looking content(such as copyblogger.com) I should be able to buy one. It just seems nobody's selling them.

      The other part of my problem is that whenever I find a pretty good theme and just want to do a tweak or two, the question isn't answered by Wordpress.org community members because the theme isn't 'open-source' and they frown upon professional themes. And whenever I ask a question through the developer's forum, they usually caution against editing any of the code. Kind of a frustrating, vicious circle.

      Readjusting my expectations is good advice.. I suppose I'll need to hire a wordpress developer if I want a website exactly to my liking. Does the Genesis Framework really not allow you to customize themes to your liking? I always figured that was kind of the point. I've been trying to research the Framework and you'd be surprised at how little of information there is out there about it.

      Thank you, everyone, for your input.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew H
    Pfft. The man is frustrated with WP, and you want to send him to Joomla? That's a sure recipe for the loony bin...
    Agreed that Joomla is much more complicated, but at the same time it is more more capable than wordpress. Ones time is better spent learning a complicated system that can provide greater results.
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  • Profile picture of the author lostarts
    It can be incredibly frustrating when you can't get something set up the way you want it. So I wouldn't worry too much about the venting. We've all been there. Hell, I'm a developer so I basically live there.

    As for getting your theme tweaked the way you want - you're more likely to get support if you buy a theme through themeforest or similar places. You should probably check out what type of support they offer in advance before you purchase a theme.

    I've purchased a few at themeforest and usually you can get a response from the designer. As long as you can give appropriate details when asking your question, and don't expect them to entirely reshape the theme to your liking, then they will provide helpful advice. Also theme documentation usually gives thorough instruction on how to make common customizations.

    On the other hand, if you buy a theme from a place like http://www.woothemes.com/, they have support documents for their themes and I believe have a support forum as well. This might be more in line with what you need.

    And lastly, if you need someone to customize your theme for you, it can be priced reasonably as long as you know exactly what you need and have a reasonable idea of how long that should take.
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    • Profile picture of the author Blase
      I think I can tell you where to get a theme
      that you can have look like copy blogger.

      First you need...
      Thesis

      Then you need to go to a theme site... kolakube.com

      Look at their Marketers Delight 2.

      If you sign up for the forum to ask
      pre sales questions you can also see
      how people are using the themes.
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  • Profile picture of the author kamran9868
    It's better to customize the theme as per your demand. You can't find any theme which can fulfill your needs. So... any features you want to include or exclude you have to customize the theme as per your demand. It's not much hard but can be tricky. WordPress has lot of themes around the web. Just keep searching and you'll find better one for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
    First of all, stay away from Elegant Themes unless you're looking for buggy as hell sliders.

    If you don't mind that your site looks like a lot other sites out there, you can check out WooThemes. They look great out of the box, are robust and have a lot of features but unfortunately, your site is going to look like a lot of other sites.

    Blase advice about Marketers Delight 2 is spot on although for this to work, you need to buy the Thesis framework as well because all Kolakube designs are just Thesis skins, nothing else.

    If all you want is a site that looks like copyblogger.com just go to StudioPress themes buy the Genesis framework there and then download the free Copyblogger theme in the resources section.

    It doesn't looks exactly as the Copyblogger site but it is based on that theme.

    Ps. When you say go to wordpress.com to download wordpress, I think you may actually mean wordpress.org since this is the actual open source software.
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    • Profile picture of the author Blase
      Originally Posted by SergioFelix View Post

      Blase advice about Marketers Delight 2 is spot on although for this to work, you need to buy the Thesis framework as well because all Kolakube designs are just Thesis skins, nothing else.

      Yep, that's what I said...

      "First you need...
      Thesis

      Then you need to go to a theme site... kolakube.com

      Look at their Marketers Delight 2."
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      • Profile picture of the author JakeDaly
        Thank you for the advice, everyone!! And Sergio.. buggy sliders was one of the big reasons I gave up on the professional themes.. it seemed each one had a major defect, most of the time dealing somehow with the homepage.. usually making them not worth the price of admission.

        Best Regards,

        Jake Daly
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        • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
          I have found many "professional bloggers" that play the ignorance game of "Oh since I never used sliders I wasn't aware of that" but that's just pure BS.

          People would do anything in order to make one cent online these days.

          Glad it helped Jake, good luck! ;-)

          Originally Posted by JakeDaly View Post

          Thank you for the advice, everyone!! And Sergio.. buggy sliders was one of the big reasons I gave up on the professional themes.. it seemed each one had a major defect, most of the time dealing somehow with the homepage.. usually making them not worth the price of admission.

          Best Regards,

          Jake Daly
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      • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
        For someone who is new to Wordpress themes, understanding the differences between a theme, a framework and a skin may all be too confusing.

        That's why I added that it was just a skin, nothing else.

        Cheers! ;-)

        Originally Posted by Blase View Post

        Yep, that's what I said...

        "First you need...
        Thesis

        Then you need to go to a theme site... kolakube.com

        Look at their Marketers Delight 2."
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        • Profile picture of the author Blase
          Originally Posted by SergioFelix View Post

          For someone who is new to Wordpress themes, understanding the differences between a theme, a framework and a skin may all be too confusing.

          That's why I added that it was just a skin, nothing else.

          Cheers! ;-)
          Sergio,

          No worries, I was just messing with ya.

          I am really on the fence regarding frameworks for most users.

          I'm thinking that unless you design sites or just like to play, there
          are plenty of options to just use standard WP. If people really
          understood WP I think they would be amazed at what you can do
          with the 2010 or 2011 theme and some PHP and CSS knowledge.

          The cost and the learning curve is not for everybody. As I look back
          at the things I've learned over the years I really think I would
          have been much better off hiring it done than learning it.

          Which proably makes sense being most "Internet Marketers" say
          they can't focus.

          :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author rontheitguy
    I'm a Wordpress guy and I DO NOT use free themes and haven't ever had a need to buy a theme thanks to Artisteer. With some creativity and a small learning curve, you can create some pretty good looking themes.

    On the matter of Wordpress vs Joomla, I'd have to agree with SteveJohnson. Once a Joomla user myself for a few years, I can attest to the fact that Joomla has it's own place in the world, but it is more complex to use and has a much higher learning curve, so I'd consider that move very carefully.
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    • Profile picture of the author Blase
      Originally Posted by rontheitguy View Post

      I'm a Wordpress guy and I DO NOT use free themes and haven't ever had a need to buy a theme thanks to Artisteer. With some creativity and a small learning curve, you can create some pretty good looking themes.
      Ron,

      I have used Artisteer for a number of designs and I would agree with you
      that once you learn it you can do most anything.

      I also like the fact that you can design other types of sites besides
      WP.

      I have one concern, do you think the theme code that you get is
      blotted. It just seems to me that those sites load slower.

      I have no hard facts to back this up. It just seems like there is more
      stuff in the theme files.

      Any thoughts?
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      • Profile picture of the author rontheitguy
        Originally Posted by Blase View Post

        Ron,

        I have used Artisteer for a number of designs and I would agree with you
        that once you learn it you can do most anything.

        I also like the fact that you can design other types of sites besides
        WP.

        I have one concern, do you think the theme code that you get is
        blotted. It just seems to me that those sites load slower.

        I have no hard facts to back this up. It just seems like there is more
        stuff in the theme files.

        Any thoughts?
        I don't know if Artisteer themes are actually more bulky or not. I can't really say I've had any problems with them myself and with few exceptions, most of my client sites load up just fine with no lag at all. That said, it is possible that the theme files are a bit more bulky, but until I start having constant issues with them, I'm happy!
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  • Profile picture of the author jlazarus17
    I love Elegant Themes - and I joined as a member 2 years ago and for $19 a year I have unlimited access to ALL those themes - so not sure why you think their themes are $30 each? (Although I think the subscriber cost is now twice that rate, still it's just an annual fee).

    Also, NO THEME will be EXACTLY what you want - that's why you gotta get in there and tweak it. I modify/customize every theme I use. It's really not hard. At first, I was overwhelmed, but hit the boards, ask questions, don't be afraid to mess with the PHP - (make a child theme first so if you mess it up you don't affect the original code) and just PLAY with it. It's actually fun!!

    Here are a few I've done for clients using Elegant Themes:

    Good Life Catering and Meals to Go |
    General Surgery of Southaven - Memphis and Midsouth Area Lap-Band Surgeon
    Shoreline Condos

    Heck I even used WP to create custom Facebook Mini Sites (back when you the canvas app was 520 and sat as an iframe canvas directly on the wall). For that I either modified a premium theme or used Artisteer to make my own.

    Start off with the twenty eleven theme - make a child them, then hack the crap out of it! ;-)

    Good Luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author JakeDaly
      Thanks, guys! One last question.. do you have to be just as versed in PHP/CSS to be able to modify themes in Genesis or Thesis as much as you'd need to know PHP/CSS to modify a theme in the first place?

      I'm researching both frameworks and they discuss a learning curve with each. I don't know if they're talking about a small learning curve to simply begin using the framework or a pretty big learning curve to do anything with it half-way decent.
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      • Profile picture of the author Blase
        Originally Posted by JakeDaly View Post

        Thanks, guys! One last question.. do you have to be just as versed in PHP/CSS to be able to modify themes in Genesis or Thesis as much as you'd need to know PHP/CSS to modify a theme in the first place?

        I'm researching both frameworks and they discuss a learning curve with each. I don't know if they're talking about a small learning curve to simply begin using the framework or a pretty big learning curve to do anything with it half-way decent.
        Jake,

        Thesis approaches it differently. They use "hooks" to do a lot of the customizing. Which kinda of supports the PHP and CSS so you don't
        have to know as much of that. Still a learning curve.

        Plus Thesis is releasing Version 2 in August, which may be (a lot) different
        than the current 1.8 regarding the way things are done.

        Again if you don't do a lot of sites I would just use standard WP.

        I do not use Genesis, I have an online friend that uses all of
        the frameworks and she just does site development for a living.
        She now swears by Genesis.

        Hope that helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emil from Bavaria
    CMS Made Simple is fairly easy and nice, and Website Baker is even a tad easier. Both of course don't have the momentum and the surrounding community that WP has.
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