Do you still design for IE 6?

45 replies
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I'm currently designing an interface for an online application and have run into a display snag that only affects IE6. It has to do with IE6's inability to display transparent PNG files, more specifically the fix I applied for the transparent PNG issue is conflicting with some other code.

I have worked for a few hours on this and am now considering just abandoning support for IE6. The application works properly in IE7 and IE8, as well as Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome.

Do you think that there are many users out there still using IE6? Would designing a page that required a minimum of IE7 be too restrictive?

Thanks

Bill
#design #internet explorer
  • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
    Hi Bill,

    If it's a web site that anyone could potentially visit, I'd design it for IE6. Whilst we moan and gripe about it as a browser, there's still around 20% of users using IE6.

    If it's a web application that's specific to something, you may be able to not support IE6 - but it depends on your audience. An audience who aren't tech-savvy may not be able to upgrade their browser; likewise a large company using your software may be on older PC's and have security policies enforced meaning an IE upgrade or software install requires a system administrator (so there's then the time / hassle to go through).

    On the issue of transparent PNG's, I've either used 24 ways: Transparent PNGs in Internet Explorer 6, which has worked where most others haven't - or (if possible), changed the PNG's into GIFs (but I understand this may not be viable for you).

    Tim.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kezz
    I don't design for IE6 anymore. I just threw up my hands one day and said, "Enough! I boycott you IE6!" I just don't have the time in the day to cater for three different IE's that render code completely differently. Especially when I also check compatibility in Firefox, Chrome and Flock. Enough is enough I say.

    For me it comes down to effort vs reward now. I understand that there are people out there who are still using IE6, but I ask myself how much benefit it will bring my business to cater for that browser, vs the amount of time I have to spend. The answer, for me at least, is that it really isn't viable to spend so much time. The reward just isn't there.

    Besides, if you're still using IE6 you're probably used to things always being broken, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Brian
    IE transparency for PNG can be solved by using PNG 8 format, PNG 24 is where the problem's at.
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    • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
      Originally Posted by Mark Brian View Post

      IE transparency for PNG can be solved by using PNG 8 format, PNG 24 is where the problem's at.
      Well in desperation I just finished converting about 60 graphic files to PNG Indexed mode. This allowed me to remove the "PNG fix" code that was conflicting with my other code. And it now works perfectly in IE6!

      I used GIMP to do the conversions, it's actually pretty easy. Should have listened to you earlier Mark, thanks!

      Ironically (or at least amusingly) I have another section of this application that is having trouble with IE8 and currently needs to run in IE7 compatibility mode! You just gotta love Internet Explorer!

      Does anyone know which is best for developing for Internet Explorer - Tylenol, Excedrin or just plain Aspirin?

      :confused:


      Bill
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      • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        Ironically (or at least amusingly) I have another section of this application that is having trouble with IE8 and currently needs to run in IE7 compatibility mode! You just gotta love Internet Explorer!
        I've found IE8 much less troublesome than its predecessors. If I were you, I would do what I could to avoid the compatibility mode. If you don't you won't be able to take advantage of the must faster rendering and script engine that IE8 has. Likely it is a very simple fix, or needs validation of the code.
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        • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
          Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post

          If I were you, I would do what I could to avoid the compatibility mode.
          I couldn't agree more, I plan on fixing this issue up this weekend. I just thought that it was amusing that once I resolved one IE issue yet another one rears its ugly head!

          Not sure why I'm amused by that, I've been designing sites since the Netscape 0.9 beta was out and I have run into my share of browser incompatibility issues -I remember designing individual sites for Netscape 3, Netscape 4, IE 4 and IE5. At least we've come along way since then!

          Bill
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          • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
            Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

            I just thought that it was amusing that once I resolved one IE issue yet another one rears its ugly head!
            That is somewhat ...funny... or ...amusing... or ...ironic... or ...I'm not sure which... :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
        Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

        Well in desperation I just finished converting about 60 graphic files to PNG Indexed mode. This allowed me to remove the "PNG fix" code that was conflicting with my other code. And it now works perfectly in IE6!

        I used GIMP to do the conversions, it's actually pretty easy. Should have listened to you earlier Mark, thanks!

        Ironically (or at least amusingly) I have another section of this application that is having trouble with IE8 and currently needs to run in IE7 compatibility mode! You just gotta love Internet Explorer!

        Does anyone know which is best for developing for Internet Explorer - Tylenol, Excedrin or just plain Aspirin?

        :confused:


        Bill
        Probably Tylenol 3 with Codeine
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  • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
    For the most part, I think it is a very bad idea to just completely ignore IE6. Some estimates put it at about 25% of all worldwide internet traffic (still!). That said, if you have an extremely tech-savvy audience, the chances they are browsing your site with IE6 become much slimmer. My website has an extreme majority of its audience in the Firefox browser, because most of the people who surf my site are looking for my jQuery plugin. They are all programmers and developers.

    I think many people just don't realize how many in the corporate world and the big-business world are locked into using IE6. IT people keep everyone inside a company on one system, and don't upgrade until they are willing to do a lot of work. This is one of the reasons IE6 is still so prevalent: Huge networks of computers inside of major corporations have been locked out of upgrading.

    Also, at the time of IE7's release, there were whole countries who's banking industry relied on IE6 Active-X controls, which don't work in IE7. Active-X has been officially deprecated, but it's not like a country can just let their banking sector die just because there happens to be a browser which renders CSS better.

    Is IE6 a pain to develop for? Sure, but it's not as bad as the old Netscape and IE4 by a long-shot.

    Don't believe IE6 could be 25% of all worldwide internet traffic? Take a look at this: http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
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    • Profile picture of the author Aronya
      Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post

      Don't believe IE6 could be 25% of all worldwide internet traffic? Take a look at this: W3Counter - Global Web Stats
      Wayfarer,
      No disrespect intended, but worldwide usage doesn't necessarily mean anything. The ONLY stat that's relative to any of us is OUR sites' usage. If 90% of the browsers are IE6, why would I care if only 1% of my visitors use it?
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      • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
        Originally Posted by Aronya View Post

        The ONLY stat that's relative to any of us is OUR sites' usage. If 90% of the browsers are IE6, why would I care if only 1% of my visitors use it?
        I actually agree with this, partially. It just depends on how much traffic you get. If you don't get very much traffic, and your audience isn't very tech-savvy, you should probably prepare for the possibility that you may get a lot of traffic one day, and that a sizable portion of it may be IE6 users.

        That said, sites like jQuery and QuirksMode don't support IE6, and both get a couple hundred thousand visitors a day or so. Of course, when 75% of your visitors are on Firefox, chances are the other 25% are not in IE6... (75% of the referred traffic from the jQuery Plugins site to my website is in FF, and of the rest only 1/2 of it is IE).
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  • Profile picture of the author Aronya
    If you're working on an existing site, check the stats to see how many visitors are using IE6. If the number is low, scrap it. If the number is relatively significant, you've just got to expect to do the extra work (assuming they're buyers).

    On the other hand, if it's a new site, I think the best you can do is try to size up your audience to determine what browser they're using. If your market is older people, you're likely to have a larger percentage using older browsers.

    Another thing to consider is how valuable are those people as customers? If any particular group is extra picky, or needy, or likely to ask for refunds, do you really want them as customers? What if there's a correlation between the browser they use & the amount of service they demand? To use the older demographic as an example; if you're selling something technology-related, you're more likely to have to spend much more time servicing an older customer base than a younger one. Is that something you want to do? Personally, my time is more important to me than keeping a picky (or uneducated/untrainable) customer happy. I'd rather focus on the better customers.

    Sorry. Didn't mean to go so far off on that tangent, but I do think it's relevant.
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  • Profile picture of the author philsout
    hey there!

    I see to it that my website is compatible to IE 6.
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Wow - I was buried in my work for a day and just saw all the replies. Many thanks to everyone who responded - a lot of great points raised here.

    Up until now I have always designed for IE6, in fact it was only recently that I stopped designing fro IE 5 as well. I have several computers in my office with various operating system and browser combos and still have machines with both these versions of IE.

    Currently the application works in IE6 but some display elements are "degraded". It's an application that is very important to me, I've been working on it for almost 5 years and I'm just about finished so it needs to be perfect! I really don't want to stop support for IE6, in fact I've already made several compromises specifically for IE6 in the design.

    The target market for the application is actually Internet Marketers, however as we all know IM people span a wide range from tech geeks who wouldn't be caught dead using Internet Explorer to the technically challenged who may think that Explorer is the only way to view the Internet. So if 25% of people still use IE6 I can probably assume that some Internet Marketers still do as well. As this is a new site (in fact it currently exists only on a local LINUX server) I have no traffic statistics to verify this against yet.

    Again, thank you all very much for your responses.

    Aloha!

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author lopezfernando
      I dont consider IE 6 on any of my development. that is too far left behind. Now that web 2.0 is the current trend most of users are at least using IE 7 to keep up with the standard.

      that is for my idea only.
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  • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
    Try explaining to your client why you're alienating around 20% of your visitors; or better still, why your client (who uses IE6) isn't an "included site visitor" for the web site they're paying you to create.

    Of course, not everyone here's creating sites for clients. But if you needed reason enough (as painful as it may be) to continue IE6 compatibility, you've just got one.
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    • Profile picture of the author eCovers4uGfx
      12mths ago I decided to give my old boss the flick & go it alone in the designing world, I really do not know what circumstances surround you but for me, deciding not to create for a specific area ie: 15-20% of the overall market would be like shooting myself in the foot.

      ''Everything works if you let it''

      Just my two bobs worth, good luck with whichever way you go!
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  • Profile picture of the author phalgun
    There are surprisingly many people using IE6. They don't even know there are other browsers.
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    • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
      Originally Posted by phalgun View Post

      There are surprisingly many people using IE6. They don't even know there are other browsers.
      A friend of mine called me up the other day asking me for some technical assistance with the internet. I asked him, "what browser are you using?". His immediate response was, "what is a browser?"
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  • Profile picture of the author ny_mariposa
    If I can fix the IE6 bugs I do. If I can't fix them, I don't break my bum trying. I'm more concerned with learning how to make my sites work well with mobile phones than IE6.
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    • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
      If I can fix the IE6 bugs I do. If I can't fix them, I don't break my bum trying. I'm more concerned with learning how to make my sites work well with mobile phones than IE6.
      So what you're saying, is that you don't mind if your products are sometimes broken?
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      • Profile picture of the author ny_mariposa
        Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post

        So what you're saying, is that you don't mind if your products are sometimes broken?
        LOL! Thanks for your concern. :p I would prefer my products not be broken... but if I am stuck and have to move on, later versions are my priority. The biggest issue I've had with IE6 are potentially expanding divs... which other than being certain that the div won't expand due to oversized content, I don't know the fix. I make sure my content fits well within the parameters of the div. What more can I do?

        To expand on this question... do you still design for people with low resolution monitors to avoid horizontal scrolling?

        I'm on the fence on this one, but mostly I do try to keep to 800px max width.
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        • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
          Originally Posted by ny_mariposa View Post

          To expand on this question... do you still design for people with low resolution monitors to avoid horizontal scrolling?
          800px monitors are MUCH less common than IE6 users. Most of the websites I build are for 1024px monitors. My favorite width is about 950px.

          For the (less than 1%) of users still on 800px monitors, I'm sure they are quite used to websites scrolling on the x-axis by now. Even previously low-tech friendly sites like MySpace have now upgraded to wider layouts.
          Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

          As IE6 is still so prevalent I can't see having any choice but to design for it, or at the very least to have pages "degrade gracefully" for IE6 users.
          Yes, graceful degradation is the key. We can still code to modern standards for better browsers, and send slightly different setups to lesser browsers, if it is still tolerable.

          I consider, for example, using a PNG hack to allow semi-transparency in IE6 to be graceful degradation. There is a flicker while the JavaScript computes the transparency, which is not ideal, but the solution is so fast that it is usually worth it. If this hack won't work, using a JPEG or an alternative layout is an option, though it takes more time. The trick is to balance the time with results, and still keep a budget which is worth it to all involved.

          As far as the universal stylesheet idea goes, maybe it a couple of years. I don't think we're ready for that yet. As the economy improves, people will start to upgrade their computers, and IE6 will not be available to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author houdy
    So you have to do everything to the lowest common denominator? Sort of like putting caution labels on hot coffee, and having bilingual signs all over the place?

    Keep putting up those signs and they won't learn the 'other' language, keep designing for IE6 and they won't upgrade.

    What is broken? The browser or the website?
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  • Profile picture of the author Siti Hanipah
    of course, it's important to design site to view in any browser. most visitor arrive from ie6.example: in my office and other too. they are use ie6+, because their OS is windows. so management decided to use ie6 rather than firefox....
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    I'm actually surprised that IE6 is still used to the extent it is, especially as Microsoft is always trying to push an update to the next version. I have a machine that I specifically keep at IE7 and I constantly have to decline the offer to update it to IE8. But I hadn't thought about the corporate world where IT staff may keep users at IE6 to simplify their work and to keep consistency with what they need to support.

    As IE6 is still so prevalent I can't see having any choice but to design for it, or at the very least to have pages "degrade gracefully" for IE6 users.

    I found an interesting take on the issue here:

    Universal Internet Explorer 6 CSS | For A Beautiful Web

    It's about creating a "universal" style sheet for IE6. Not sure I completely agree but it does have its merits.

    Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author balikpapan
    i thinks many users going to use IE8..
    cause it has great performance...
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  • Profile picture of the author primediart
    well really great points here, but many clients still believe that IE6 has large user base, which has to be covered. Although IE6 has lots of bugs and always you will face problem when you are using form or javascript in it.

    so, our designers and coders have to keep IE6 in mind.. we're presently working on 15k project and client insists that we check on IE6
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  • Profile picture of the author egturnkey
    yes i still but i used to do my best so that it fix with IE 6 and FF
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  • Profile picture of the author Sensei.Design
    no I don't care about IE6 anymore. I focous about IE7 and FF
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    • Profile picture of the author ashley385
      Yes its necessary to make your site compatible with at least IE 6 and IE 7.
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      • Profile picture of the author wolf29
        I mainly use WP now for site design so I will use themes that will look good in IE6 as well. Still can't believe a decent amount of people still use IE6 though.
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  • Profile picture of the author wayfarer
    so, our designers and coders have to keep IE6 in mind.. we're presently working on 15k project and client insists that we check on IE6
    I feel your pain. Recently, I helped build an interface for a private web application for a large hospital and medical center. We spend a huge amount of time making sure it worked in all the main browsers, only to find out near the end that the ENTIRE hospital was using IE6 only. It is one of the largest medical centers of its kind in the US. What a bummer...
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  • Profile picture of the author ariallennon
    I used WP too, the themes look good
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  • Profile picture of the author graphic_designer
    No , i dont..wordpress is better..
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  • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
    Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

    Do you think that there are many users out there still using
    IE6? Would designing a page that required a minimum
    of IE7 be too restrictive?
    Hello! :-) Looking at the data given to me by Google Analytics
    for a small side project website (that I was looking at in another
    browser window when I read your post) reveals that of the
    54,425 unique visitors that have come to the site using "some"
    version of Internet Explorer, 18,087 (or 33.23%) were using IE6.

    That's hard to believe because IE6 just seems so old. But unless
    the data is flawed, that's reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author virtuali
    Not anymore as IE seem something for the bin these days for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ClickMonkey
      Hello! :-) My previous post referred to numbers that even I
      thought were hard to believe. Every website is different and
      some websites may attract a type of visitor that may be for
      one reason or another more likely to have a certain type of
      web browser. For example a website for Apple people will be
      more likely to show a lot of Safari users. The website where
      these stats come from are people in the offline investment
      world. Maybe they lean more towards Microsoft as their basic
      operating system and just stick with IE6 because they don't
      want/know-how to change to something else. But the stats
      are what they are. I took a picture and included them in this
      post so others can see it too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohsin Rasool
    Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

    I'm currently designing an interface for an online application and have run into a display snag that only affects IE6. It has to do with IE6's inability to display transparent PNG files, more specifically the fix I applied for the transparent PNG issue is conflicting with some other code.

    I have worked for a few hours on this and am now considering just abandoning support for IE6. The application works properly in IE7 and IE8, as well as Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome.

    Do you think that there are many users out there still using IE6? Would designing a page that required a minimum of IE7 be too restrictive?

    Thanks

    Bill
    Hi Bill,

    As far as it is client's website or blog we make sure we have IE6 support.
    But for web applications we are going to build as we want and launch,
    i think it is not worthy to support IE6... Here is a post Matt posted few months ago
    that many other developers are/have said Bye BYE to IE6
    IE6 Independence? — Matt Mullenweg

    may this help,
    Mohsin
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  • Profile picture of the author dawnpeterson
    Hi,

    I think you should create your website(s) to look the same in all browsers. The simple solution is to do your own coding, stick to jpegs and gifs and limit flash to one area or not at all.

    Dawn.
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  • Profile picture of the author lucasdean123
    If it's a web application that's particular to something, you may be capable to not support IE6 - but it calculates on your audience.
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  • Profile picture of the author g0ld3n.tig3r
    there are better things in life to do rather spending time on IE6.
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  • Profile picture of the author ninal
    I still do. It does take a lot of time making it work in IE6 in some cases but I usually have a separate stylesheet geared specifically towards IE6 bugs. Most clients still prefer having their site working/displaying properly in IE6 so that doesn't really give me much choice.
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  • Profile picture of the author LovelyCornSyrup
    If I'm doing it for personal use here's the way I look at it: People are willing to pay me $85/hour for freelance work, so if it takes me five extra hours to be IE6 complaint I need to make $425 from IE6 users to break even. Not in the infinite long tail, but in the short term since I could've spent those five work hours much more wisely.
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  • Profile picture of the author smorhaim
    I wouldn't bother with IE6.. just look at your analytics stats and figure out if your bulk is coming from ie6 which i doubt it..

    I go for IE latest and 1 or 2 back.. Firefox usually i just worry about the latest as the older ones get taken care off automatically..
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