Link Blasts: Where are the sites ranking number one that use them?

[Mike Anthony]

Honest question because I am definitely thinking they have to be out there.

I keep my eye pretty closely on Seo and link building serp keywords. Over the last few months I've seen larger and larger submission backlink services. We are up to 7 - 9000 backlinks being dropped in 48-72 hours in some offers.

and I am thinking even though I think it would be a short term bump there has to be something to it. some pages have to be blasting to the top of competitive searches. Google certainly doesn't have their act together in weeding out links (mostly forum links nowadays) do they?

So I am a bit amazed. I would think the first place I'd see movement is in the seo related searches since the people offering these packages would be eating their own meal right?

I don't see any changes in serps. I might have missed some site but all the sites I see have been ranking from way into last year with much lower backlink counts. An example without giving away anyone? Okay.

Probably the most popular serps is angela's goarticles result for backlinks at number two. She's still sitting there and her link composition looks the same. More links but she has been there from way back when and she's by now got a ton of natural backlinks as people link to the site as they explain the technique. What gives? Why haven't the blaster taken her out over all these months?

I see more and more people claiming they get sandboxed after agressive backlinks but don't see any signs of the benefits in the serps. And "backlinks" is just an example. I don't see any changes in a number of serps you think would be changed in the very keywords that people who sell these services would want to rank for.

Anyone spotted any site ranking with a link blast bot? One that they can link to and show the rest of us? Or is this just an SEO example of the emperor with the new clothes?

[brendanwenzel]

Haven't really seen any myself either. It's an interesting question you pose here.

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

So I am a bit amazed. I would think the first place I'd see movement is in the seo related searches since the people offering these packages would be eating their own meal right?

That would be like hanging a big "KICK ME" sign on your rear end.

Actually, there are a several competitive niches out there where you can spot the latest trends in building links and they aren't SEO or Internet marketing related. You can probably guess what these niches are...

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

That would be like hanging a big "KICK ME" sign on your rear end.

Actually, there are a several competitive niches out there where you can spot the latest trends in building links and they aren't SEO or Internet marketing related. You can probably guess what these niches are...

I'd venture to say porn, Viagra gambling etc. All niches that Google doesn't care a flying frog about giving ... ahem "quality results"

But even a spammed key phrase like Viagra you have to drop down to number six to see a site purely selling it and the link consistency isn't forum backlinks either. I happened to do SEO work with a few people in the gambling niche and they spend some major dollars on all kinds of links not just bot blasts. and thats in a niche Google doesn't care to even police.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by brendanwenzel

Haven't really seen any myself either. It's an interesting question you pose here.

meanwhile what I see almost every day are sites with less backlinks beating the tar out of sites with much more backlinks. I'm thinking that just maybe (and seriously do still have my doubts) Google's present algorithm might be more sensible than I thought and thats before they make the changes they announced last month they are going to make in regard to link spam.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

... and thats before they make the changes they announced last month they are going to make in regard to link spam.

Of course, G has been talking about comment spam for awhile, and we all know how well that worked out. I have a feeling that the Cubs winning the World Series is more likely than a major algo change, but just one man's opinion.

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

But even a spammed key phrase like Viagra you have to drop down to number six to see a site purely selling it and the link consistency isn't forum backlinks either.

Try buying mid-to-long tail keywords, not the top level term. For example, cheap viagra 100mg. Look at the ranking sites in positions 1 to 5. Look at their backlinks. Look at the backlinks on the backlinks. Dig around a bit and you'll see some interesting things emerge on how they build links. You're right though, it isn't forum profile links for the most part.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

Of course, G has been talking about comment spam for awhile, and we all know how well that worked out. I have a feeling that the Cubs winning the World Series is more likely than a major algo change, but just one man's opinion.

I don't know where you get those feelings from Tom. If you think as technology rolls along Google will remain static I think its probably more wishful thinking. Terry has said the exact opposite - that change is a part of SEO.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I don't know where you get those feelings from Tom. If you think as technology rolls along Google will remain static I think its probably more wishful thinking. Terry has said the exact opposite - that change is a part of SEO.

I agree that change is part of SEO and agree that Google will make minor tweaks here and there. I have no doubt for that. Some things will be more beneficial today than they were yesterday, and vice versa. I just don't see a major overhaul any time soon. Some people on here just think they are going to wake up on May 1st (pick a date), and all of these ranking factors will be different.

As an aside, not sure what the reference is Terry is about as last time i checked my name wasn't Terry Guess I better check my birth certificate. Terry and I also have differences of opinion on the power of EMDs versus having the keyword + something else in the domain, if you are keeping track.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

For example, cheap viagra 100mg. Look at the ranking sites in positions 1 to 5. Look at their backlinks. Look at the backlinks on the backlinks. Dig around a bit and you'll see some interesting things emerge on how they build links. You're right though, it isn't forum profile links for the most part.

OH yeah, Cheap viagra, Buy viagra etc. Actually came across those all the time when looking for links. Great example but like you have seen the link consistency doesn't show that they are relying on blasts. They actually have some neat little backlink setups and if its like the gambling niche alot of the links are bought in one form or the other.

but cheap viagra is interesting. Notice that the number one page has about 15,000 LESS backlinks than number two.

Anyway what I am looking for is a page ranking with a link consistency that shows they used one of these mass bots to get their ranking with the thousands of profile links being offered (which inevitable means forum links). I'll take your suggestion to look at more long tail keywords. Perhaps I can find one there.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

I agree that change is part of SEO and agree that Google will make minor tweaks here and there. I have no doubt for that. Some things will be more beneficial today than they were yesterday, and vice versa. I just don't see a major overhaul any time soon

Neither you nor I run Google so who cares what you think or I think. I'll leave it to the reader to determine whether its so unlikely that Google will make a change after they read the actual content here and not just the headline.

Calling for link spam reports

When caffeine was announced they said it would be a structural change that wouldn't affect serps but that it would allow them to make further changes down the road that could and would. They delivered on Caffeine. Theres no rational reason to believe they won't deliver on other changes your feelings not withstanding.

As an aside, not sure what the reference is Terry is about as last time i checked my name wasn't Terry Guess I better check my birth certificate. Terry and I also have differences of opinion on the power of EMDs versus having the keyword + something else in the domain, if you are keeping track.

Simple. Of the two of you terry has more street cred with me. He's your partner last time I checked. It was merely a way of indicating that the position you touted isn't just at variance with mine. No need to get touchy there now.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

I keep my eye pretty closely on Seo and link building serp keywords. Over the last few months I've seen larger and larger submission backlink services. We are up to 7 - 9000 backlinks being dropped in 48-72 hours in some offers.

As someone who has seen the resulting profile links for one of these "mega" packages, I wouldn't really expect much movement, to be honest.

The breakdown was basically:

--50%+ Phpbb unanchored links (pretty easy to do in mass quantity with various autotools on your own these days).

--Of the remaining, about 80-90% were on PR2- domains.

Buyer beware I say.

Also note that forum profile automation has been around at least for a little while with Xrumer I believe. I would assume those in the pharma/gambling market have the financial resources to handle that (either directly or through outsourcing), so i'm not sure if I would expect some recent movement in those niches in that regard.

[Tom Goodwin]

You know linking to Matt Cutts is just going to start a downward spiral the likes of which we cannot escape. I'm not even going to go there. All i'll say is I'll believe it when I see it, like everything Matt says.

As for street cred, really I could give a darn. I do happen to have a "few" sites of my own that manage to run without running them into the ground on my own. Last time I checked this wasn't some sort of "who's got the biggest" contest.

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Neither you nor I run Google so who cares what you think or I think. I'll leave it to the reader to determine whether its so unlikely that Google will make a change after they read the actual content here and not just the headline.

Calling for link spam reports

When caffeine was announced they said it would be a structural change that wouldn't affect serps but that it would allow them to make further changes down the road that could and would. They delivered on Caffeine. Theres no rational reason to believe they won't deliver on other changes your feelings not withstanding.

Simple. Of the two of you terry has more street cred with me. He's your partner last time I checked. It was merely a way of indicating that the position you touted isn't just at variance with mine. No need to get touchy there now.

[Daniel McGonagle]

Mike, et al...

I tried xrumers for something other than web 2.0 and low level competition phrases

2-3k indexed sticky links/month to main domain urls.

The urls were aged a bit and saw no SERPs improvements, but some Google Dancing

No sandboxing either

As others will tell you, and from what I know from experience, these types of burst linking methods are best used for the Web 2.0s like lenses and hubs, and low comp terms on inner pages.

For the approx. 250/month it would cost to merely run xrumer, I don't think it's worth it if you're trying to develop long lasting quality backlinks, and results.

Mike, like you I prefer to test things out for myself instead of letting others tell me "What's up" and xrumer and other types of link blasters are better off used for web entities you don't really care about and can withstand the burst linking.

I've also paid for links, too although that's anathema to me, but i test everything, and those paid links (high PR, link juice, and no OBLs except my 1 link) seem to be laying a steadier hand on my serps than xrumer blasts.

[Daniel Molano]

Google has rendered those link blasts almost useless in comparison to quality backlinks. They do have some use in backlink boosting though.

For one, the obl count of each is too high. And two, the PR of the pages those links are coming from is probably N/A (regardless if the domain is of high PR).

And yes, this applies even to the viagra and gambling niches.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

As someone who has seen the resulting profile links for one of these "mega" packages, I wouldn't really expect much movement, to be honest.

The breakdown was basically:

--50%+ Phpbb unanchored links (pretty easy to do in mass quantity with various autotools on your own these days).

--Of the remaining, about 80-90% were on PR2- domains.

Buyer beware I say.

Wow. That I didn't know. Thats a rip but are you sure? Theres one I saw claiming two thousand links for like $25 and 10,000 for 60 plus and they do mention anchor text (although they admit they don't filter for nofollow) with no mention that they are not offering it on more than half of the links.

Also note that forum profile automation has been around at least for a little while with Xrumer I believe. I would assume those in the pharma/gambling market have the financial resources to handle that (either directly or through outsourcing), so i'm not sure if I would expect some recent movement in those niches in that regard.

True but I am not seeing that effect in the backlinks that come up. I'll keep searching.

[Daniel McGonagle]

Yup, agreed...

This may be unpopular to some but spammish linking does have its place if you're trying to build link juice to entities far removed from your main sites and using them to build link juice to link wheel spokes.

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Yup, that's pretty much all there is to SEO.

But the key is generating them yourself, without having to pay for them.

Figure that out and you've done it.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

You know linking to Matt Cutts is just going to start a downward spiral the likes of which we cannot escape..

Tom don't come on to yet another of my threads trying to derail it. the subject is link blasts and what or who is ranking with them today. I can link to whoever I jolly well feel without being threatened to how you will derail it if I do. The point of the link is that people can read what they wish and make their own decisions.

If you want to keep running down that point it won't be because you can't escape it but because you don't want to.

The Terry thing has got you needlessly upset. We've had our disagreements and they are fundamental so it was merely a way of referring to another party you might trust more. Who I hold as having street cred with me is equally my choice. Terry in my eyes has earned it on this board. I'm done on that if it gives you another door to derail another thread.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Daniel McGonagle

Yup, agreed...

This may be unpopular to some but spammish linking does have its place if you're trying to build link juice to entities far removed from your main sites and using them to build link juice to link wheel spokes.

Yes, especially considering doing it that way cannot hurt your own sites in any way.

As opposed to using them for direct linking. Even more so now that Google is accepting link spam reports (the competition will use that against you).

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Wow. That I didn't know. Thats a rip but are you sure? Theres one I saw claiming two thousand links for like $25 and 10,000 for 60 plus and they do mention anchor text (although they admit they don't filter for nofollow) with no mention that they are not offering it on more than half of the links.

.

100% sure unless Spyglass is lying to me.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Daniel McGonagle

I've also paid for links, too although that's anathema to me, but i test everything, and those paid links (high PR, link juice, and no OBLs except my 1 link) seem to be laying a steadier hand on my serps than xrumer blasts.

Well this might surprise some because some think I am some kind of white hat purist but I've never had a deep abiding respect for the claim that you should not buy backlinks. I've never done it for other reasons and better strategies but a company that puts as many paid links on websites as Google doesn't really earn that respect and the fact that adwords can put you on the top spot on google negates the counter that adsense doesn't affect serps. Adwords certainly does - right at the top of every result page.

Plus corporations indirectly buy the power of backlinks through their PR department so I wouldn't say its quite on the level of anathema for me. In fact on some levels I find it a lot more respectable than blasting 10,000 forum webmasters in 24 hours. I just want to see some evidence that blasting even works.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Tom Goodwin

100% sure unless Spyglass is lying to me.

Thanks Tom. I didn't have access to any site that had actually used that service. Thats interesting.

[Tom Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thanks Tom. I didn't have access to any site that had actually used that service. Thats interesting.

If something sounds too good to be true it almost always is. If you see someone advertising ultra low cheap rates for posting forum backlinks, it probably means either (a) they will use xrumer on your behalf, or (2) they have some other automation tool that likely will generally only post to the crappy forums which allow for easy signups and postings as those are the ones with the least safeguards (no extra spam questions, etc.).

[kkchoon]

Hi Daniel,

It has been a long time since we last chat, good to see you here!

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Google has rendered those link blasts almost useless in comparison to quality backlinks. They do have some use in backlink boosting though.

For one, the obl count of each is too high. And two, the PR of the pages those links are coming from is probably N/A (regardless if the domain is of high PR).

And yes, this applies even to the viagra and gambling niches.

Just want to clarify this -

Are you saying domain PR0 with link from page PR N/A has the same link power as domain PR 6 with link from page PR N/A?

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Yup, that's pretty much all there is to SEO.

But the key is generating them yourself, without having to pay for them.

Figure that out and you've done it.

Do you think XRumer if properly use, can still generate good result? Or you have better method to harvest "Quality" links?

I am very interested the way to generate and find "Quality" backlinks, can you share a bit with us?

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

It does work. Only because some of those links will actually get through. If you're lucky, 0.1% will have a low obl count and a decent page PR, which if you add up will actually boost your ranking. That's if you don't get caught of course.

But why bother? 1 page PR3 with an obl count of 1 will have the same, or an even better effect. And you can't get caught with that.

I agree with that, it would be nice if you can share a bit on how to find these quality backlinks!


Kok Choon

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

That's right, the only difference is that the PR6 domain link will probably achieve a decent PR through antiquity alone eventually, while the other one is completely useless. That's why Angela type backlinks do work.

XRumer can be used to boost the PR of the backlinks you leave.

Hi Daniel,

If a PR 6 domain links will achieve a decent PR, wouldn't it because the domain passes authority and link juice to the page? Even if there is no link to it from anywhere?

Any other reason why PR 6 domain links will acquire PR overtime?

Regarding XRumer, if it can boost my backlinks, wouldn't it be able to boost my site directly - as well? Can you explain a bit more about the logic?

Kok Choon

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

That's right. The closer the link is to domain the better. If there is no link at all coming from the domain or the subpages down the line, it's a useless backlink unless you boost its PR externally.

Yes, basically I agree with you. However, I won't says that backlink is useless because it did help me rank well with my page.

Nevertheless, this kind of links can't compare to what you refer as quality backlinks - page with high PR and only 1 OBL to your page.

Can you give us some tips on how to find these kind of links? Blog comments seem to have a lot of OBL, and the true quality links can't be achieve directly, unless using link wheel.

I think you must have some kind of harvesting tools to get those links, these kind of links would be a great property to SEO marketer!

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Only once, and there is a high chance you get caught link spamming.

Meanwhile, by boosting third party properties you cannot affect your site directly, and you can boost each backlink. Competitors cannot report the pages where your backlinks are live, they are only going to report your site directly.

Yes, but I think Google will not have the resources to process all kind of complaints.

Also, Think about this, if I can blast tons of links to my competitor and report them as spammer, it would be very easy for me to kick them off the SERP!

I think mixing as many backlinks type as possible would help counter these kind of problems, it is not easy to spam and de-list an established (1 year and above old) site.

Do you have any experience de-listing your competitors? I would love to learn these kind of skills...

Kok Choon

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

Meanwhile, by boosting third party properties you cannot affect your site directly, and you can boost each backlink. Competitors cannot report the pages where your backlinks are live, they are only going to report your site directly.

Thats a decent point but we need to point out to the newbie reading this that with each hop away from his main site the juice degrades so you are going to need more backlinks to those backlinks. I'm not sure about the latter part of that strictly because you mention PR boost. With the proliferation of tools that show both the backlink and the PR if I am a webmaster aware of the link wheel concept of this I am going to instantly spot something fishy about a forum profile backlink with PR (provided its showing any).

The link spam report tool does allow for details to be added and that can include your backlinks. Theres nothing that forbids it.

I think what gets some people is they don't think about the competitive reaction when you do use these tactics to get number one. What they seldom realize is that if you have pushed someones income down the toilet they are EXTREMELY motivated to examine how you did itand report spam activity when they spot it. Of course reporting isn't likely to happen in niches where everyone is doing it - but then they know how to counteract it as well and soon even 20,000 backlinks is nothing and it escalates more every month

Its in their financial best interest to report link spam.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by kkchoon

Yes, basically I agree with you. However, I won't says that backlink is useless because it did help me rank well with my page.

...

Do you have any experience de-listing your competitors? I would love to learn these kind of skills...

Kok Choon

I do have a custom made tool that helps me a lot in doing this, it will be launched soon.

But even with it, those kinds of links cannot be found by themselves, you need to generate that PR by yourself.

As for de-lisiting my competitors, I don't even try to, just beat them fairly.

[Daniel Molano]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Thats a decent point but we need to point out to the newbie reading this that with each hop away from his main site the juice degrades so you are going to need more backlinks to those backlinks.

...

Its in their financial best interest to report link spam.

You're right, I have to rephrase what I said.

Google cannot penalize you for third party link spam, otherwise your competitors could easily use that against you, and Google is well aware of that (read the comments in Matt Cutts post).

What Google can do is discount direct links.

[Mike Anthony]

As an update I recently have been doing a whole lot of keyword and competitive research and STILL I have yet to see a single page ranking highly in any competitive niche basted on blast type profile links.

[Love2Blog]

LOL.

Of course you don't see them, because these links are worthless, and can easily cause a penalty as well especially with a manual review.

It's all about quality over quantity at Google, the only reason Angela every ranked her article is because GoArticles has enough on site domain authority to rank well for a lot of phrases so that was not a fair example of what those backlinks could do.

The only real winners of those backlinks are those that were making a killing selling that crap and laughing all the way to the bank.

The day that I see Angela rank her own domain for keywords like "cheap laptops", "weight loss plans" or any mid level competition campaign with her forum profile links, I will apologize and eat my shirt, but that could never happen.

[Love2Blog]

Originally Posted by Daniel Molano

You're right, I have to rephrase what I said.

Google cannot penalize you for third party link spam, otherwise your competitors could easily use that against you, and Google is well aware of that (read the comments in Matt Cutts post).

What Google can do is discount direct links.

No matter what Matt says to the public, this is not true.

If google does a manual review and finds unnatural or manipulated link profiles they sure will penalize, the -50 penalty is a good example, where all pages of a site are stuck on Pg 5-6 of Google for up to 3 years.

It's happened to me and was confirmed by Google via email response to a reconsideration request to another Warrior who wrote about it in this penalty thread, the penalty was all about the link profile and they said it will not be lifted until the links are cleaned up.

[Mike Anthony]

Originally Posted by Love2Blog

If google does a manual review and finds unnatural or manipulated link profiles they sure will penalize, the -50 penalty is a good example, where all pages of a site are stuck on Pg 5-6 of Google for up to 3 years.

It's happened to me and was confirmed by Google via email response to a reconsideration request to another Warrior who wrote about it in this penalty thread, the penalty was all about the link profile and they said it will not be lifted until the links are cleaned up.

It was more true when this thread was originally created but you are right Google does in fact penalize for bad links now. Very frequently.