Yup! Backlink blast regrets

[lovboa]

My site is only 2 months old and I have only been making backlinks manually---about 2-3 a day.

Yesterday, I found a thread on warrior forum where a link was given to a site that submits your site to up to 2000 sites. I know these aren't high quality sites, the op even said so himself. However, the link was really popular with everyone and it received great reviews.

I decided to give it a try. Instead of going for 2000 links, I chose to do 100.
In a few hours, my site moved from page 11 to page 18.

I hope this could be a lesson to you guys who are new at this like me. I went from 2-3 high quality backlinks a day to 100 in 2 minutes. Don't blast links at your site like I did. Google says it loves "natural" backlinks... so self-creating backlinks like we do day to day had better look "natural".

This sucks because I was making such good progress and finally seeing results moving up the pages everyday. Now I'm booted back and probably will stay there for a while.

[nicktyler]

That sucks the big one but it is also good that the lesson was learnt early on and you diddn't ruin an aged big money site or something.

Don't worry too much just keep up with your good linking work and you will recover in no time.

[julien731]

Old sites can stand a large amount of BLs in a short period of time. In fact it can have positive effect "buzz like". But for your sites, it's a very bad and risky idea to increase by 100 the quantity of daily backlinks!

[owenlee]

Good job..Always learn from mistakes...

[kkchoon]

Think again, you've done nothing wrong with blasting backlinks. You might be in the stage of Google Dance, just keep building more quality backlinks, your site will be back with higher ranking!

[xxxJamesxxx]

Sounds like Google Dance to me.

I'd give it a couple of weeks and see where you rank then... Too early to diagnose the problem at the moment.

James Scholes

[MikeFriedman]

Let's have a little perspective here.

You were on page 11. NOBODY searches to page 11. You were nowhere in the top 100 results.

You didn't lose anything.

Secondly, 100 backlinks is a drop in the bucket.

You said your ranking dropped in a few hours. That proves it had nothing to do with these backlinks. Google won't find 100 low quality backlinks for weeks.

[Talen]

Highly doubtful that google saw those links in a couple of hours especially as they were probably whois type sites...it's not a google dance either from so few backlinks within a couple of hours.

Your site probably fell a few spots because another webmaster out seo'd you.

[Jason Hunt]

As has been said before, if blasting backlinks actually hurt rankings then all we have to do is blast backlinks for competitors sites to wipe them all out.

[Zaxx]

Originally Posted by Jason Hunt

As has been said before, if blasting backlinks actually hurt rankings then all we have to do is blast backlinks for competitors sites to wipe them all out.

THAT is a brilliant plan!! I am on that now because I found a place to by 10,000 backlinks for $20! I will have to buy this package for each of my competitors!! Thanks Jason.

[markowe]

Don't sweat it, a site can often dip a little when there is a sudden influx of new links. Actually, I did exactly what you did, ran a few thousand of those stats-site-type links on an up-and-up site of mine earlier this year. It bombed out of the SERPS for a few weeks but eventually recovered and, coupled with my other SEO efforts, eventually hit no. 1 and has been there for months. I seriously wouldn't start worrying yet.

Now what you probably DON'T want to do is run 70,000 of those links over a 24-hr period on a completely new domain like I did for an experiment. It has yet to figure in the top 1000 But I am not necessarily giving up on it just yet.

[biggcapp]

lovboa,

Relax, take a deep breath. You are ok. Trust me. Even if you blasted the site, they all didn't get indexed or crawled today so maybe Google is seing 500 or so.

2nd - you are right, don't ever go to your money site, with these low quality backlinks. Create some Web 2.0 properties with your anchor text in their url (for instance if you were selling yellow cups - www.yellowcups.blogspot.com).

Blast those with cheap, low quality back links and have those pointing to your money site. This way your bread and butter will be protected.

A "real" sandbox is being de-indexed. If you are on page 18 you are Google dancing, and you might even end up on 8 or 9 in the next few days. You are good to go.

Come back to the thread and let us know how it turns out.
-Capp

[trevesty]

Keep going with what you were doing prior. That's just Google doing its dance for you. You should be back in no time.

[atomasini]

100 seems too few to do any harm. 1000 would be more like it.

Some will say it has nothing to do with your drop, others say new sites shouldn't blast in the beginning.

I don't use any software, just manual links. Of course it's easier when you only have 1 site. For those with dozens of sites, it's near to impossible to link and do blog commenting manually. For me, it's working just fine, slowly but fine.

If it makes you uncomfortable, just stick to manual link building.

[36burrows]

I learned this lesson as well with an Xrumer blast.

Site was on page 1, then after it was gone for about 2 months or so.

It has now returned to page 1 however so you'll be fine.

[JamesGw]

Mix up your anchor text.

That said, correlation=/=causation.

[supershoesclub]

i do think natural link building everyday is better for seo purpose. and get the high quality backlinks is more imporatnt than the big quantities.

[JSProjects]

This is almost certainly the Google dance. Don't worry just yet. After a sudden surge of backlinks you may drop a little. The question is, where will end up once you've stabilized? That depends on the quality of the links.

I'd be weary about blasting my site to thousands of unknown sources. I'd prefer to manually create backlinks, then blast THOSE instead - if I intend on blasting backlinks.

[paulgl]

This thread is crazy.

That was some backlink blast.

A backlink blast is not bad. Why people think it is, who knows.

Cause and effect getting completely mixed up.

Let's talk about a real 2,000 blast.

Seriously. If those 2,000 were low level links, google would not even
see them. They certainly would not see them in a few minutes. That's
what people just can't get a grip on. That google does not instantly
know, nor do they really care, what Joe Blow does with links.

If those 2,000 were fantastic links, google would eventually LOVE it!

Why do people think that a huge multibillion dollar company give's
a rat's behind what some Joe Shmo is doing? Or doesn't do?

A sudden surge in backlinks is going to drop you?!?!?!? Oh man. Where
do you people get this stuff from?

Paul

[Matt Ward]

On top of everything else, going from page 11 to 18 means basically nothing. Being beyond the first few pages likely means that your site is being seen as just vaguely relevant to the searched keyword, and page 11 might as well be page 100.

Just keep doing what you were doing, and you'll be fine.

[lovboa]

Originally Posted by paulgl

This thread is crazy.

That was some backlink blast.

A backlink blast is not bad. Why people think it is, who knows.

Cause and effect getting completely mixed up.

Let's talk about a real 2,000 blast.

Seriously. If those 2,000 were low level links, google would not even
see them. They certainly would not see them in a few minutes. That's
what people just can't get a grip on. That google does not instantly
know, nor do they really care, what Joe Blow does with links.

If those 2,000 were fantastic links, google would eventually LOVE it!

Why do people think that a huge multibillion dollar company give's
a rat's behind what some Joe Shmo is doing? Or doesn't do?

A sudden surge in backlinks is going to drop you?!?!?!? Oh man. Where
do you people get this stuff from?

Paul

I think most of us are smart enough to realize that Google will not personally look at my site after seeing an unusual amount of links. I'm guessing they have better things to do than that.

Maybe we thought that the "huge multibillion dollar company's" ranking algorithm might have something to do with it?

Maybe you should stop trying so hard to make every post sound as condescending as possible. Some of us are new at this and may ask some questions with simple, obvious answers from time to time.

[surfbot]

I wouldn't be too worried. Your site is fairly new and it is not uncommon for new sites to experience movement like that. Sometimes sites can fluctuate wildly for 3-5 days, especially if Google is rebuilding their rankings. Also, I have many times seen a sites ranking move crazily in google while it steadily climbs in Bing and yahoo so it may not be all bad.

Keep building links the right way as you have been and use those lower quality link blasts to send juice to your quality links. Diversity is the key, make sure you don't stick to just one kind of link and remember to include Web 2.0 properties as biggcapp said. Check back in 2 weeks and see how you sit then.

And remember, it's not all about off-site. Google loves fresh content and some daily posts can help get you moving in the right direction.

[unnatural]

Like others have said the 100 back links probably had nothing at all to do with your change in rankings. Going from page 11 -> page 18 doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things anyways, and 100 back links is *nothing* in the eyes of Google.

If 100 back links could hurt a website than no one would spend time SEO'ing there own websites they would just get every other website pushed down and Google would be fighting a constant war. Google really can't allow external factors to *harm* a website for this reason.

As a side note, I've blasted brand new sites with 10,000 links in a few days as tests and some of them do well, others not so well - there's a lot of variables. But even with 10,000 links none of them received penalties as far as I can tell.

[ulcseminary]

Is it a problem when a new site gets a link on a big site that somehow generates a whole bunch of links? I'm not sure I understand how it does that anyway.

On google webmaster tools, for instance, I show over 9000 links for a forum that I have about 100 posts on. How do 100 posts generate 9000 links? And my own website, with internlinking and such, somehow generates 372k links. How does that happen?

[Kael41]

Backlink Blast <> Google Crawl/Index

You're presupposing Google is seeing this massive, MASSIVE link dump to your site. When in reality, it's bits and pieces here and there.

[Mikeys]

Sounds like google dance to me. Keep building links and you will bounce back!

[JamesGw]

Originally Posted by paulgl

This thread is crazy.

That was some backlink blast.

A backlink blast is not bad. Why people think it is, who knows.

Cause and effect getting completely mixed up.

Let's talk about a real 2,000 blast.

Seriously. If those 2,000 were low level links, google would not even
see them. They certainly would not see them in a few minutes. That's
what people just can't get a grip on. That google does not instantly
know, nor do they really care, what Joe Blow does with links.

If those 2,000 were fantastic links, google would eventually LOVE it!

Why do people think that a huge multibillion dollar company give's
a rat's behind what some Joe Shmo is doing? Or doesn't do?

A sudden surge in backlinks is going to drop you?!?!?!? Oh man. Where
do you people get this stuff from?

Paul

I don't even know why I'm replying to this, but:

1. He said a few hours, not a few minutes. Google could certainly detect a surge of links over the course of a couple hours.

2. Why does Google care about what "Joe Shmo" is doing? Well, it wouldn't care if one person was contributing to web spam. It cares when thousands, if not millions of people are. It is well known that Google takes action against web spam. In fact, they have an entire web spam team. Blasting 2,000 low quality backlinks = web spam.

Whether or not their algorithm can pick up on spammy link building is an entirely different question all together, but asking whether or not Google cares is a bad way to prove your point since it's very clear that they do since they do manual reviews and have an active policy against such link building methods.

I think what I addressed in #2 could be referred to as a straw man fallacy. You attempted to refute the premise that Google cares about what someone is doing to prove that Google does not detect or care about spammy links. Google does not base its policies around its feelings toward one person's actions, which makes your argument invalid.

Stop being so condescending. You're not even insightful in half of your posts and it's getting slightly annoying.

That said, correlation=/=causation. I have a feeling, like I said, that it could be because of the anchor text.

[dee4d]

This is so informative, I know you will come up more knowledgeable with all these replies, thanks to you warriors. My take on this - you don't need to worry about the slight drop, but be gradual in adding your links. Let it seem natural, and you could come up with another site to compare your results. I believe these applications for adding links are meant to assist because adding backlinks manually is tedious, you will be competing with others using the automated applications.

[markowe]

It is simply not true to say that Google does not detect link "blasts".

As an experiment just now I ran one of those "whois/stats sites scripts" on a one-page wonder of mine, creating "backlinks" (oh, probably getting pings too, remember) on maybe a couple of hundred sites.

Guess, what, in the space of an hour I have over 40 Google Robot hits on that one page (usually days go by with nothing). Of COURSE the crawler can see something is going on with this site - there is an influx of backlinks, to which it is often alerted by pings. MANY sites will ping Google when they have new content published, especially article sites, web 2.0 sites and of course whois/stats sites.

[JaySam]

In this thread shows that it's not how many links you can have but its how much weight is the quality of the links is and Google is not only a search engine but also a moderator.

At lovboa and JamesGW Agreed for both of you in this thread it is not how expert you are (others are claiming) but how you share and clarify the things with all the members as well as the visitors.

[vikram2009]

Following statements are based on my understating of what I read on the web and understood. If any one finds my statements to be inaccurate, I will be more than happy to revise my opinion. I think google bot comes to your site based on several signals. Google bot then Indexes your site/page based on its own criteria. That goes for pages/posts and the anchor text, which can be a link to other pages on your site or to other websites. The signal could be the backlink blast you produced on other sites.


But google bot may or may not index those links. It costs money to Google to index all the links. Due to financial consideration, I heard, that google does a deep scan once a month or does the regular scans when they get a powerful signal, may be like a link blast. Information on links number and velocity is very fragmented and I have yet to see some good evidence to support the theories that people are hypothesizing.


If some one can do the following experiment and share the data, it will be excellent. Create 30 posts and blast backlinks to each one of the posts on ever day. Let us say post one gets 10K links on September first and post 2 gets 10K links on Sept 2nd so on and so forth till all the 30 posts are blasted with backlinks. That will be 300K backlinks in a matter of 30 days. Don't use the google analytics on your site, use the stat counter or Trace Watch as your stats package. Monitor every day which kind of search engine bots are coming to your site. The time between your backlink blast and the bots coming to your site.

If some one wants to do it as a joint project send me a PM (no g**gle employees please, we are just trying to understand you) , I am technically challenged to do the 10K backlink blasts. I don't mind buying a domain and put the 30 articles, if you can blast 10K links to the pages on each day and I will share the data.

If some of you have already done this, please let me know. If you think it is not a wise thing to do please let me know. Your input with any modifications is welcome also.

If any one can share the data of their web stats on the google bot and other search engine bots visiting your website prior to the backlink blast and after the backlink blast.

Originally Posted by markowe

It is simply not true to say that Google does not detect link "blasts".As an experiment just now I ran one of those
"whois/stats sites scripts" on a one-page wonder of mine, creating "backlinks" (oh, probably getting pings too, remember) on maybe a
couple of hundred sites.Guess, what, in the space of an hour I have over 40 Google Robot hits on that one page (usually days go by with nothing). Of COURSE the crawler can see something is going on with this site -
there is an influx of backlinks, to which it is often alerted by pings. MANY sites will ping Google when they have new content published, especially article sites, web 2.0 sites and of course whois/stats sites.

Hi Markowe, Have you looked in to data on the referrer, It is really a very interesting observation. If you are interested to work further on this please PM me. Thank you.

Originally Posted by unnatural

Like others have said the 100 back links probably had nothing at all to do with your change in rankings. Going from page 11 -> page 18 doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things
anyways, and 100 back links is *nothing* in the eyes of Google.If 100 back links could hurt a website than no one would spend time SEO'ing there own websites they would just get every other website pushed down and Google would be fighting a constant war. Google really can't allow external factors to *harm* a website for this reason. As a side note, I've blasted brand new sites with 10,000 links in a few days as tests and some of them do well, others not so well - there's a lot of variables. But even with 10,000 links none of them received penalties as far as I can tell.

Hi Unnatural, Can you share your data in terms of Robots to your sites and if any of your new sites got de-indexed. If you are interested to work further on this please PM me. Thank you

Originally Posted by ulcseminary

Is it a problem when a new site gets a link on a big site that somehow generates a whole bunch of links? I'm not sure I understand how it does that anyway. On google webmaster tools, for instance, I show over 9000 links for a forum that I have about 100 posts on. How do 100 posts generate 9000 links? And my own website, with internlinking and such, somehow generates 372k links. How does that happen?

Hi ULC Seminary, WOW 372K links, I will be interested to know how your
are getting your links multiplied that way, Looks like you have the blessings from up above in a good way.

[jacked]

Originally Posted by lovboa

I think most of us are smart enough to realize that Google will not personally look at my site after seeing an unusual amount of links. I'm guessing they have better things to do than that.

Maybe we thought that the "huge multibillion dollar company's" ranking algorithm might have something to do with it?

Maybe you should stop trying so hard to make every post sound as condescending as possible. Some of us are new at this and may ask some questions with simple, obvious answers from time to time.

I agree. I usually agree with Paul's posts, condescending as they may be, but yea Google would not personally check a site like this, it is definitely something with the algorithm. And also a few hours isn't much, you should wait a few days to see if this is just a Google Dance.

[Kiril S]

Just keep building backlinks, and you'll end up higher than you were before. IMHO, the Google dance is meant to "scare" people.

Try to step into Google's shoes. If a website receives suddenly hundreds of backlinks, you would be destabilized on choosing its rank, thus the "google dance". Now if that website stops receiving links, something must be fishy...

So don't worry about your page rank for now, and just keep building backlinks and you'll be in control of the dance.

[mathman]

Backlinking is very boring I must admit but I have seen the results of natural backlinking and in only 17 days im on the front page for over 5 keywords.

Hopefully I will be able to increase further by backlinking everyday.

[dagaul101]

It's unfortunate but many folks don't realise SEO can change in an instant, Google and the other search engines are always working to thwart the efforts of autobots, just cause it worked a few months doesn't mean it will continue working

[summerfranken]

I appreciate your whole plan, I too use it for next time. Good to you to do more efficiently.

[rowanman28]

I bought two Fiverr blasting gigs for my test site Cheap Stylus. At first, it took a nose dive, but a couple of weeks later, I just sold a touch pen to a guy on the other side of the world. I can't say whether it was bad or good, I wouldn't risk it again.

[deelipk]

Sorry, couldn't manage to read the whole thread
But if you're making a lot of links naturally, a little backlink blast sometimes wouldn't be bad I guess.

[Wes888]

I also had a similar experience. I used Unique Article Wizard on one of my new site and I used their recommended 50 article links per day and whoa my site was nowhere to be found in the SERPs.

I guess it is ok to build many links to a fairly old site but for a relatively new site, doing a sudden 50 or 100s of backlinks per day will not do any good.

[alyessamoore]

Great post friend. We (SEO people) should keep this lesson in our mind. Thanks for sharing

[JamieSEO]

Backlinking = "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Before starting any backlinking schedule you need to take into account:
- the age of the site
- the number of backlinks being created
- the timeframe the backlinks are created over
- the timeframe the backlinks will be indexed over

That applies regardless of whether you are creating your backlinks manually or using software.

The newer the website, the slower you should backlink.

In the long term your site gains from having the backlinks, but in the short term you can see some weird Google jumps if you are backlinking too quickly, especially if you are backlinking directly to your money page.