Help estimating copywrite job

[Market1]

Hi,

I want to organize workshops for offline small business owners to help them market their businesses online.

I'd like to create a 1 page sales letter/ad copy that I can subsequently email, or give out as a flyer.

I have most of the content but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good headline and copy so I'd like to outsource this task and was wondering how much will I be expected to pay for a decent 1 page copy?

Thanks

[la dominatrix]

That very much depends on the quality of your copywriter. I am sure that oyu can get writers to write it for five dollars. However it is worth bearing in mind that it is a sales pages and therefore its primary pourpose is to sell. It is not soemthing I would scrimp on, good copywriters may charge up to a $1,000 for it. However better to pay a higher premium and get ten sales a day than five sales a month
La dominatrix

[Emma Ngin]

Hi! It actually depends on what you want to be included or tackled on that certain page. And I do agree with la dominatrix, if you want to make great sales out of that, then do not try to outsource it for a cheaper price, otherwise, you will end up with an unmarketable sales page or landing page.

P.S. Expect to pay $500-1000 (for good work).

[Bill Jeffels]

Originally Posted by Market1

Hi,

I want to organize workshops for offline small business owners to help them market their businesses online.

I'd like to create a 1 page sales letter/ad copy that I can subsequently email, or give out as a flyer.

I have most of the content but I'm having a hard time coming up with a good headline and copy so I'd like to outsource this task and was wondering how much will I be expected to pay for a decent 1 page copy?

Thanks

Hi Market1,

How much are you charging these business owners?.

Because, if it is any amount of serious money then one page is not going to do it. The only way that will work is if your trying to do a 2 step ad, and trying to get your prospects info then mailing them a real letter.

If you are charging a good amount of money, which you should be doing, a flyer is going to look cheap.

You should mail a real personal letter, you talking to them, plain white envelope, real stamp, and go from their. It should be 4 pages could be 6 or 8 or 10.

However many pages it takes you to sell them your product.

Regards

Bill Jeffels

[Market1]

Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels

Hi Market1,

How much are you charging these business owners?.

Because, if it is any amount of serious money then one page is not going to do it. The only way that will work is if your trying to do a 2 step ad, and trying to get your prospects info then mailing them a real letter.

If you are charging a good amount of money, which you should be doing, a flyer is going to look cheap.

You should mail a real personal letter, you talking to them, plain white envelope, real stamp, and go from their. It should be 4 pages could be 6 or 8 or 10.

However many pages it takes you to sell them your product.

Regards

Bill Jeffels

Hi Bill,

Actually this will be a free 2 hours workshop with the idea of upselling them into consulting services later.

I'm going to get introduced to these businesses through an association and by email so my thinking is that a lengthy sales letter will not be suitable and that's why I thought about using only 1 page.

I will definitely work on developping another multi step letter campaign.

[Bill Jeffels]

Originally Posted by Market1

Hi Bill,

Actually this will be a free 2 hours workshop with the idea of upselling them into consulting services later.

I'm going to get introduced to these businesses through an association and by email so my thinking is that a lengthy sales letter will not be suitable and that's why I thought about using only 1 page.

I will definitely work on developping another multi step letter campaign.

Hey Market1,

I hope that using 1 page will work for you, but I don't think it will.

You need to sell that free workshop like people are spending good money to be sitting in those seats. You need to take them through the emotions in your letter and make them desire what it is that you want to reveal to them "for free".

Let me explain.

When I was young there was a full page ad in my local newspaper for a "free" Charles J. Givens seminar. It was free and they used a whole page newspaper ad to market it.

I read every word of that ad. The seminar was not for 3 weeks. But that Charles Givens ad made me desire what he had to say at his seminar that it was all I thought about for 3 weeks.

So, when I got to the FREE seminar they went through their presentation... and at the end they wanted people to buy their $400 course.

And people coudn't get to the front of the room fast enough to get the cash out of their wallets.

My point, If Charles J. Givens had not run that full page newspaper ad, I guarantee that those 50 people would not have been sitting in those seats for a "FREE Seminar".

Just something to think about.

Take care,

Bill Jeffels

[Loren Woirhaye]

You need to do a 2-step process with this - people won't want
to pay much of anything for a seminar with an unknown.

You can do a free 2-hour evening talk and sell your $120
daylong seminar. Then from there you sell your 3-day
"profit formula workshop".

Do NOT try to sell anything like this with a 1-page ad -
you need to give before you get. You can advertise a free
info-pack full valuable money-making information... and
in that you send a salesletter for your seminar. I'm
just going to throw out a figure and say you should have a
page of rockin' copy for every $50 you charge for the seminar.

So a $200 seminar should have 4 pages of copy. A $500 should
have 10.

Something like that.

[Scott Murdaugh]

Bill and Loren made some excellent points... Even it's a FREE seminar no one knows who you are, and no one wants to sit and listen to you talk for 2 hours when they could be spending time with the family or golfing.

You need GREAT copy to sell a seminar, even a free one... If they're not 110% convinced that what you have to say is going to add significant money to their bottom line, they aren't going to come. Period.

You're also being pretty seriously under quoted as far as what to expect to pay goes...

good copywriters may charge up to a $1,000 for it.

P.S. Expect to pay $500-1000 (for good work).

I'm not saying you can't, but it's highly unlikely that you'll get what you need for $1,000 or less.

You'll need a good copywriter who understands everything you'll need to sell along the way, from the 2 step lead generation to the up-sell on the other seminars, you'll need a lot of copy and a seasoned copywriter who is good at his job to pull it off.

I'd say, if you want this done right, do your homework on some successful copywriters, and expect to pay at least mid $x,xxx or more... That's only IF you want this to be successful.

A good copywriter will set up the entire marketing system for you and write the copy that generates the leads and ultimately sells the products... That takes time and it isn't cheap.

Just trying to give you a realistic perspective on the situation.

-Scott

[Raydal]

It's a strange position to place me in as a copywriter by telling me just how
long the copy should be. I normally determine that from what
needs to be accomplished, the market, media etc.

If that's all the space that you have then you may want to use
something other than a letter, but normally the length of the
copy should be determined by the copywriter.

Usually when a prospects tells me how short and easy the copy
is to write I know they are looking for cheap work.

-Ray Edwards

[digidoodles]

Originally Posted by Raydal

Usually when a prospects tells me how short and easy the copy
is to write I know they are looking for cheap work.

-Ray Edwards

EXACTLY!

And, that they really don't have a clue about business.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Effective "concentrated" short copy is actually in my
experience harder to write than long copy. One way to
do it is write the long copy and just edit, edit, edit until
the most powerful selling appeals shine like diamonds.

With conceptual things like seminar I think the best approach
is to generate leads and follow-up with a long-copy salesletter
and subsequent reminder mailings, use the "price is going up
on Monday" close, and generally make sure your prospects
believe you are a serious player looking to build a business
in the community.

People buy from committed marketers. They do the same thing
when they buy art. Your commitment to selling your own
stuff with passion and persistence proves you are worth
paying attention to. Don't be surprised if many people show
no inclination to attend beyond soaking up your mailings on
the first seminar, but line-up to get in the next one.

Like I said, people buy your commitment.

[John Willer]

Free seminars are known to be a pitch fest (and will be viewed that way even if it's not).

For a one or 2 page flyer, ad, etc I'd suggest going for a cheap seminar like $37. Expensive seminars won't be sold through a flier, but a cheap one can be (have seen it done successfully numerous times).

[Bill Jeffels]

Originally Posted by digidoodles

EXACTLY!

And, that they really don't have a clue about business.

Come on,

What Market1 is trying to do is nothing new. People have succeeded doing this before.

You know, a funny thing happens when a entrepreneur "go's public" with their idea. It could be their family, it could be their friends, or it could be total strangers.

But someone wants to crap all over their idea's and everyting that they have to say.

Guess what?. You think John Carlton's first ad was his "One Legged Golfer Ad"?. No, far from it. But he had to start somewhere.

And at least Market1 has achieved the first thing that needs to be done when starting a business.

And that's to take some kind of action.

So, give people a break sometimes. Like I said everybody's gotta start somewhere.

Best,

Bill Jeffels

[Justin Mandel]

In my experience those people who are limiting themselves to "X" amount of pages of copy have no idea how much copy it takes to successfully market their product or service.

However if you are taking out pricey advertising space in a newspaper then by all means limit yourself to what you need and make it as eyeball grabbing and powerfully convincing as possible to get as many people in there to pack that room.

Feel free to post your copy so everyone can see what you went with.

Best of luck!

[Market1]

I appreciate everyone's feedback, whether bad or good (Thanks Bill and Loren )


Maybe I was not clear on this but the reason why I asked for 1 page is this: I'm not the one who will send the email, it's an association that deals with retailers who accepted to email a brief workshop invitation to their members. I do not have the retailers' direct email, phones or addresses so I can't do anything on my own.

Because this is an introduction email, and because the association specifically asked for a brief "workshop information" I think it will be inappropriate to send them a full fledged sales letter. Hence the "1 page" request. Then I figured if I'm going to put this together I can also put the same info on a flyer and test it.

I understand that this is not how most of you would do it but considering this is the only way I can reach this targeted list I'm willing to do it this way and quite frankly I have nothing to lose!

For those who want to see the copy, I don't have one that's why I'm considering outsourcing it. I'm not a copywriter but this is the framework I have in mind:

1- Headline: ?
2- Sub-headline: ?
3- Define problem: lack of time, lack of resources, losing customers, not enough sales, high advertising costs, competitors are gaining advantage online
4- Define solution: direct response website, automatic email follow-up, video, SEO, social media
5- Workshop details: FREE 2 hours, easy no tech jargon, massive value, self assessment forms, Q&A
6- Bonus: 1 draw for 1 FREE website setup ,FREE domain name, FREE 12 months hosting, everyone else gets 1 hour free consulting if booked the same day
7- Reason why it's free: marketing test, need to fill out 1 page multiple choice feedback form, finalizing format for future PAYING workshops
8- Take away: limited 20 seats, must provide credit card in order to attend and will be charged $47 for no show, this is the only time this will be offered for free, next time $97
9- Insert testimonial from existing client
10- Attached separate order form
11- Announced/unannounced bonuses will be mailed/emailed leading up to workshop

Thanks everyone

[Loren Woirhaye]

You say "brief email" - and my question is "how brief?"

Anyway, how I would do this on 1-sheet of paper is
very different from how I would do it in an email. Layout
would be different and font size would be different. On
paper I would go as small as 8 pt. type - with email
such small type becomes unreadable.

So your format matters, and the extent to which you
can push your provider to run your ad as you wish.

I could do it but I think perhaps you want it done
for less than I would want.

[Kyle Tully]

Originally Posted by Market1

I'm not a copywriter but this is the framework I have in mind:

1- Headline: ?
2- Sub-headline: ?
3- Define problem: lack of time, lack of resources, losing customers, not enough sales, high advertising costs, competitors are gaining advantage online
4- Define solution: direct response website, automatic email follow-up, video, SEO, social media
5- Workshop details: FREE 2 hours, easy no tech jargon, massive value, self assessment forms, Q&A
6- Bonus: 1 draw for 1 FREE website setup ,FREE domain name, FREE 12 months hosting, everyone else gets 1 hour free consulting if booked the same day
7- Reason why it's free: marketing test, need to fill out 1 page multiple choice feedback form, finalizing format for future PAYING workshops
8- Take away: limited 20 seats, must provide credit card in order to attend and will be charged $47 for no show, this is the only time this will be offered for free, next time $97
9- Insert testimonial from existing client
10- Attached separate order form
11- Announced/unannounced bonuses will be mailed/emailed leading up to workshop

You'll have a tough time fitting all that onto one page.

Why not just use the email to direct people to a website with all the info?

That way you can write as much as you like and capture their details to follow up with them yourself.

[Market1]

Kyle,

That's an excellent idea, in this case I can create a very short teaser email and see how that goes.

Thanks

[Market1]

Ok guys, I was trying to put together a good headline and this is what I came out with, could you please give me your feedback on it?

You’re Invited To A Free Workshop That Will Reveal To You 7 Secrets You Can Use Today To Market Your Business Successfully Online

Plus, You Could Win A FREE Website Design Package Worth $5000.00!

What do you think?

[Bill Jeffels]

Originally Posted by Market1

Ok guys, I was trying to put together a good headline and this is what I came out with, could you please give me your feedback on it?

You’re Invited To A Free Workshop That Will Reveal To You 7 Secrets You Can Use Today To Market Your Business Successfully Online

Plus, You Could Win A FREE Website Design Package Worth $5000.00!

What do you think?

Hi Market1,

Nice to see your still working away on this. This will be a quick one, I'm just about to take the kids to soccer practice. Here you go.

Want a website that will make you money?...

Discover The 7 Secrets You Can
Use Today To Successfully
Market Your Business Online

FREE work shop reveals how to
instantly use your website
to put more money in your
bank account

Dear friend,

My name is Market1...ETC...ETC...

Hope that helps, gotta go the kids soccer starts in 15 minutes.

Regards,

Bill Jeffels

[ARSuarez]

Market,

If you really want to make this free, I suggest addressing why in the copy.
Be truthful - your readers will appreciate it. Tell them, up front, "The reason I have no charge on this content rich seminar is blah, blah blah."

But, I think you should put a small fee on there, like $50. And then donate the proceeds to a charity. This gives you another selling point.

Even so, if this is free, sell it as hard, or harder, then something with a price tag.

For Example: Gary Halbert spoke about a $5,000 information product he sold once. But before you even heard about the product, he sent you a book by special request. The last 25% of the book was devoted to "selling" you on the product. He goes into detail about putting great effort into creating effective copy for the book. As if the book itself were the $5k product.

Because in a sense, it is. If this seminar is free, only with the intention of moving them to a greater sale, this copy has to be strong enough to sell your product.

Anyway, rambling now. Good luck!

Regards,

Angel

[Mark McClure]

M1 - As per Kyle's email suggestion, how about 3 or 4 emails - each one focusing on a specific benefit of going to the seminar.

And each email pointing to a specific landing page where the freebies, special deal or whatever is most relevant to the email copy is highlighted.

[Market1]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I've realized that I should probably revise my entire approach before I write/outsource the sales letter. I don't have a 100% clear understanding of what my target clients' needs and wants.

I'm thinking about hosting a free webinar with my existing clients and solicit their feedback to really pinpoint their pain points and get feedback on what angles I should use to present the seminar.