If You Were To Begin Your Copywriting Career All Over Again....

[Aitor Astobieta]

....with no testimonials, no portfolio, and little experience, what would you do?

I ask this question because I am becoming more interested in copywriting as the days go by, but I have no idea how to begin my copywriting journey.

I have thought of a few options:

• Write WSO copy for fellow Warriors at a low price.

• Create more of my own WSOs to get experience (I already have 4 running).

• Go to Guru.com or elance.com and charge low prices in order to get testimonials.

• Look through Clickbank sales letters to find the ones with weak copy, and contact the site owners offering my copywriting services.

I want to hear from more experienced copywriters on how they entered this business. What did you charge for your first copywriting project?

What would you do if you were to begin all over right now?

Thanks for your time,
Aitor

[Ross Bowring]

Aitor,

What I'd do is get good. By writing practice letters... re-writing CB letters. Studying direct response like a madman.

Then I'd take a couple of those samples and approach a good copywriting mentor. See if they agree to take you on. If they don't then write better samples and try again.

A mentor who knows what they are doing can cut months, even years, of painful trial-and-error off your learning curve.

Vin Montello has been my mentor and he's come through for me big.

[Alexa Smith]

Watching this thread with great interest!

Originally Posted by Ross Bowring

What I'd do is get good. By writing practice letters... re-writing CB letters. Studying direct response like a madman.

Then I'd take a couple of those samples and approach a good copywriting mentor. See if they agree to take you on. If they don't then write better samples and try again.

I have to say, for myself, I'd strongly prefer all of this to anything listed in your 4 bullet-points in the o.p., none of which I would be willing to do at all (though the fourth one is perhaps slightly less of an anathema to me than the first three).

Good luck!

[Loren Woirhaye]

I would have started marketing my services as a strategist for
local businesses sooner. Online, the marketplace for copy is
somewhat price sensitive (as in, clients want something for
pretty close to nothing).

But if you want to whore yourself writing copy for super-cheap,
that's what a lot of people do.

If not, learn how to market yourself to people who own real business
assets, not just the online folks with an ebook or other sort
of opportunity-driven marketing things. Sell to people who are
in business, have overhead, and have something to lose - they
are clients worth getting. Many online "infoproduct" people don't
have much skin in the game - which means that you'll always be
chasing the next client instead of getting solid, ongoing work from
clients whose business interests will start to slide if they don't
keep bringing in outside help... like YOU as the guy with the
answers to marketing problems most business owners would
rather not think about.

[Peter.Anthony]

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Watching this thread with great interest!



I have to say, for myself, I'd strongly prefer all of this to anything listed in your 4 bullet-points in the o.p., none of which I would be willing to do at all (though the fourth one is perhaps slightly less of an anathema to me than the first three).

Good luck!

I wold stay away from eLance as well.

[travlinguy]

I've been writing since I was in my early teens and always enjoyed it though I never saw myself doing it for pay. Then I began to have an interest in real estate investing in the late 80s, early 90s. I began writing a real estate newsletter for an RE investor's group I formed in Olympia, Washington in the early 90s and people liked it.

One day on a lark I picked up a copy of Writer's Digest - the Writer's Magazine Market ed. and began to send queries to some of the mags in the book. And I got picked up by a quarterly titled Financial Freedom Report, a real estate investing publication.

I got $.10 per word in 1994 with the average article around 1200 words. Wow! I never looked back. I'd been paid for my writing before that but this turned into a steady gig. And I still have several offline clients that pay well too.

So my advice to you would be to pick up the Writers Digest - Writer's Market book of your choice and start sending off queries along with samples where appropriate. If you can get a foothold in the offline market you’ll make more money and hopefully won’t feel that you have to accept the peanuts a lot of decent writers end up settling for online.

In the meantime check CraigsList for assignments where you can build a resume with endorsements. You can also do that here and on other forums.

You can earn a buck online but you're going to have to get good first and have some testimonials under your belt. I see many good writers make the mistake of charging small money going in and never being able to break away from the bargain basement stuff.

If I had to give any good writer one piece of advice it would be don’t get known as a cheap writer because once you do it’s really hard to break free. Good luck.

[colmodwyer]

Read a lot. Write a lot.

Colm

[DougHughes]

• Start writing spec ads.
• Write something daily.
• Read great ads. Duke university ad database.
• Read great novels.
• Buy Bob Bly's book "The Copywriter's Toolkit."
• Create post cards and business cards.
• Join and attend Chamber of Commerce mixers or the equivalent in your country.
• Attend as many in person business networking events as you can and be armed with your elevator pitch and business cards. Tell people you use words to write ads that build peoples business and generate new leads (many people don't even know what a copywriter is).
• Find a reputable list broker (I recommend Edith Roman or Kroll Direct) and get a list of marketing executives, small business owners, creative directors etc... and send them a direct mail package advertising your services. First a postcard then perhaps an information packet.
• Look through your local coupon books and newspapers for advertisers who consistently advertise. Send those advertisers your postcard. Better still, call them on the phone or go to their place of business and introduce yourself and your services to them. Follow up with the promising ones. Stay on them.
• See if you can get a list of local business owners and market to them. This can be huge.
• Find corporations in industries that you want to write copy for and seek out the names and contact information for marketing managers, marketing directors, and creative directors send them your postcards or call them.
• Contact all of the ad agencies in your area and alert them to your services.
• Alternatively, you can get a job with an ad agency writing copy, build your skills, and then leave and try to keep a couple of your accounts.
• Solicit Agora, Boardroom, Phillips Publishing, KCI Communications, and other major mailers. These companies are always looking for new rising stars.
• Create a website and then buy advertising and market yourself and your services.
• Also, do what Travelinguy said and get Writer's digest. Start writing articles and shooting off queries to stay in practice.
• Get a sales job. Take what you learn, and build a business.

There you have a bunch of stuff you can do. Personally, I like going to live events. It's great, because they usually go around the room and make you introduce yourself. This is an opportunity to let other business owners know about what you do.

Understanding their needs can work in your favor. Most business owners are frustrated with advertising. If you can convince them you can help them actually make money with advertising your phone will start ringing.

I hope that helps.

Doug

[The Copy Nazi]

I would create a portfolio of sales pages (real or imagined) and put them on a dedicated site. This becomes your showroom. Try not to do what everyone else is doing. Then you could run PPC ads using the keywords that people might enter in Google to find you. Like "online copywriter"..."website copywriter"..."sales page copywriter"..."internet marketing copywriter" etc. And if you can SEO your site to the first page of Google for those terms, even better.

Btw I've seen a great standout Adwords spot by Mark Silber

Handsome Young Copywriter. Actually, mid-40's and homely. But quite a decent writer. Try me.

When you go through to his site you are met by -

We suck at lunch. We don't play golf. We have no Yankees tickets to offer. And if you believe bigger is better, we're the worst agency there is. But if you're more interested in performance than perks, you'll be glad to know SILBERWARE - the brainchild of award-winning copywriter/creative director Mark Silber - offers an absurdly long list of copywriting services, including: ...Whew! And we do what we do without a cast of thousands - it's basically just one guy plus a chimp who takes dictation. Which means we're cheaper than a real agency - in fact, one of us works for peanuts. Not that peanuts are inexpensive. We are relentlessly, single-mindedly, disturbingly focused on copywriting.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta

....with no testimonials, no portfolio, and little experience, what would you do?

I ask this question because I am becoming more interested in copywriting as the days go by, but I have no idea how to begin my copywriting journey.

I want to hear from more experienced copywriters on how they entered this business. What did you charge for your first copywriting project?

What would you do if you were to begin all over right now?

Thanks for your time,
Aitor

Well, I started my copywriting business in 2006 with no testimonials and the only portfolio I had was things I had written for my massage therapy center. Within 2 months, I was ready to go full-time and I've been full-time ever since. Honestly, if I can do it then I believe anyone else can too IF they use the right plan of attack.

When I started, there was one well-known copywriting mentor, David Garfinkel and he was charging $20K for mentoring then. I wasn't about to spend $20K, so I went the self-study route which is a lot longer and harder than working with a mentor. If I had worked with a mentor, I probably could have built really strong copywriting skills in 1/3 of the time it took me.

Current aspiring copywriters have more options: they can be mentored with top guns like Ray L. Edwards or Vin Montello... I've mentored a number of copywriters on the marketing their business side of things because that's the type of mentoring/teaching that I really enjoy doing.

There was no 'how to market your copywriting business' products then. Bob Bly had a chapter in his Copywriting Toolkit book and that was pretty much the only one. That's one of the reasons why I started Market Your Copy in 2007... it was the first ever dedicated membership site for copywriters focusing on marketing and sales skill development.

I started out charging very little. My first client was the guy who introduced me to my wife (see my copywriting site for the story behind how I wound up writing for him), so I charged him $100 for a new home page.

I ran a WSO early on for $200 rewrites which sold out in 72 hours. It was a short sales letter with an order button and people could order without needing to contact me beforehand. Of course, some of those rewrites were for 20-30 page sales letters so I don't recommend anyone charge a flat fee for rewrites without seeing the letter in question first. That was a painful lesson for me to learn.

I don't recommend anyone write for spec. Your landlord or mortgage company doesn't take IOUs and neither should you. You are writing copy to pay your bills first and then make (hopefully) a lot of money.

I did things every day to get prospects into my marketing funnel. Multiple marketing weapons including things that aren't normally lumped under marketing like networking. While I don't pursue new business as agressively today, I still make a regular effort to keep my marketing funnel full with well-qualified prospects so I can choose the best potential projects for my skill set to produce a winner. Not every project is a potential winner and I don't pretend to write top-notch copy for every single niche... there are some niches that don't interest me or would take way too long for me to fully grasp.

I work on my copywriting skills ever day... reading proven control pieces... writing copy for my clients or my own businesses... I've done this pretty much everyday since I started as a pro copywriter.

By the way... if you put your copywriting think cap on, it's pretty easy to work around a lack of a portfolio and still do a successful promotional salesletter. There is more than one way to do it.

Since it's part of several paid products of mine, I'm not going to reveal the answers here because that would not be fair to everyone who has purchased those products in good faith.

These days, you have to have a copywriting website. If you don't, then 90% of your potential clients won't bother to contact you. That's my estimate, not any proven research. I just know from tracking my marketing that 90% of my potential and future clients mention reviewing my website before contacting me.

Hope that helps,

Mike

[Aitor Astobieta]

Wow, I thank you all for your great posts. My head is full of ideas right now!

By the way, do any of you do copywriting in 2 languages or more?

I ask this question because I am fluent in both English and Spanish. I could get offline clients by copywriting in Spanish since I live in Spain, and I could target English-speaking clients online.

Do you think it's good to do copywriting in more than one language, or should I just concentrate on one?

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta

Do you think it's good to do copywriting in more than one language, or should I just concentrate on one?

I think it's going to depend on what the two languages are. But if they're English and Spanish ... well, for commercial internet usage and copywriting, that's just about the best combination you can have, isn't it? I know nothing about the Spanish-speaking market, but I know that there is one and it's huge.

I'd suggest, though, that if doing this (e.g. with web sites) you don't combine the two in any way at all, or the way you market your services, because some potential clients for copywriting in English may be prejudiced against a copywriter whose first language they suspect not really to be English. Just saying!

[Hugh Thyer]

At a guess, I think you should consider specialising in Spanish copywriting. Most of the top copywriters are English writers, but surely there must be enough demand for Spanish sales copy that you could get in demand very quickly.

After all, there probably aren't many Spanish copywriters out there, yet the Spanish speaking population is massive across the world.

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

I would have started marketing my services as a strategist for
local businesses sooner. Online, the marketplace for copy is
somewhat price sensitive (as in, clients want something for
pretty close to nothing).

Loren has totally hit the nail on the head here. Get offline as fast as you can. Let's face it, who'd gonna pay more for sales copy? A brand new internet marketer who's yet to earn $1 or an established, $200k a year business owner?

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta

By the way, do any of you do copywriting in 2 languages or more?

Not intentionally.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Aitor Astobieta

I ask this question because I am becoming more interested in copywriting as the days go by, but I have no idea how to begin my copywriting journey.

I just recently had this problem. My copywriting business hasn't really "taken off" yet, but here's the basic layout of what I did:

- Write my own sales letter; if I can't sell me, I can't sell anything
- Write a few sales letters for no charge (three)
- Write a few sales letters at very low prices (two for $300, two for $500)
- Armed with these examples, crank my prices up where they belong ($2,500 per sales letter)

At this writing, I've done three sales letters at full-price, and have two clients currently deciding whether to "pull the trigger" on an order. Not bad for someone who had never written a sales letter four months ago.

[BrianMcLeod]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

At this writing, I've done three sales letters at full-price, and have two clients currently deciding whether to "pull the trigger" on an order. Not bad for someone who had never written a sales letter four months ago.

Not bad at all, mang.

This makes me smile because I know what a s**t sandwich
you've been handed the last few months. And to see you plowing
through it is nothing short of awesome, dude.

Given that noggin of yours, you'll absorb the scientific mechanics
of DR copywriting as you gain more and more experience...

...but the "gift" of the pen, you've already got.

Best,

Brian

[Jennie Heckel]

Dear BT:

I love Clayton Makepeace's Desktop Copycoach and the Summit DVDs.

If you are starting out in copywriting that is the way to go. Gary's B's. is for different markets and is very expensive. I do IM copywriting and Yanik Silver is a good one to follow. Just know they all have their positives and negatives and it just depends on the market you want to write for and what you want to do.

Clayton is for both direct mail and web copy
Gary B is more direct mail
Yanik Silver for web copy

You can buy Yanik's Internet Marketing Copywriting Course on ebay for a couple hundred bucks. But his old course is not as good as Claytons new Desktop Copycoach. Clayton's course covers how to write copy from the beginning and how to frame the sales letter, outline it, proofs and all the rest. You get a complete training package and it covers all the aspects you need to learn to write convincing copy. You want to convince your reader the product is right for them, and to buy it today, meaning click the button right now!

Clayton also has a great website with tons of free tips and articles.

I have invested thousands in my copywriting education, and now am listed # 7 on elance for "copywriter" and "copywriting".

That is with over 4,000 competiting copywriters on elance so I guess that means I know what I am doing... I only started a year ago on elance, and that is a great way to get started, write some sales letters and GET PAID FOR WRITING.

I have completed over 40 copywriting projects this last year just on elance and have made more money than I have ever made in my life AND I DO WRITE IN MY PAJAMAS.

Glad to help you if you want more info.

Jennie

[Jennie Heckel]

Dear BT:

Here is Clayton Makepeace's site:

The Total Package

Regards,

Jennie

[Aitor Astobieta]

Again, thank you all for your helpful posts.

You guys are awesome!

CDarkLock, your story has inspired me as an aspiring copywriter. I wish you the best in all your future copywriting projects.

[firegold21]

I'm not an established copywriter (yet, anyway), but one of the prevailing things I see in the answers here is the concept of honing your chops. Which makes sense from a general writing perspective, as well as a business perspective.

The more you write, even if not for an actual client, the better you're going to get.*

I'm thinking, though, that it might be a good idea to include rehearsing the other aspects of being a copywriter as well as just the writing part. Things like actually closing the sale over the phone/email, or the information-gathering interview process, etc. Those parts of the process are just as important as the actual writing, and arguably harder.

I say harder because I've had the experience of pulling teeth to get usable information from a client before. Some clients expect you to read their mind.

Joshua

* To a point, at least. Perfect practice makes perfect, but even imperfect practice can result in improvement. Whenever possible, writing sales letters, etc. intended to go live is better than writing mere samples. That way, you can test and see what works and what doesn't.

[Aitor Astobieta]

Thanks firegold...I guess mind-reading should be a new skill to add to my resume...

[Leedir]

Aitor Astobieta, I have to thank you for starting this thread. The info provided here is really good. My interest in writing for profit is raising its head again.

[Matt Burns]

Since this is kind of on topic with this thread (pardon me if not), I was wondering if you vets could share any details about your first gig for the aspiring copywriters reading here? Perhaps a then and now?

Things such as price, location, and any other details you could provide interest me and I'm sure others greatly. I've been trying to land my first gig so any tips or other things you learned along the way would be most appreciated! Those thus far have been AWESOME, keep 'em coming!

[RickDuris]

The stories of initial copywriting business success here are absolutely inspiring!

Years ago, I hired two of the all time greats for help in marketing my IT business. I caught the copywriting bug from them. With their help, we tripled our sales in about a year.

This was back in the early 1990's.

Under their mentorship (and absolutely ruthless critique,) I was writing the copy for my business myself. Once you catch the bug, you can't help but do it for other business owners and entrepreneurs.

It's addictive, at least to me.

After my skills were proven as well as backed up by tangible results, my mentors would refer me to their Clients. I was absolutely hooked. I'd noodle an idea overnight and then by morning, after a few edits, we had something we could run with.

More times than not, we were rather amazed at the results.

Since then, I receive a steady stream of requests to be involved in various projects, from ongoing work to large scale product launches.

Last point:

In Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers", he talks about the "10,000 hour rule." He has done research which concludes no matter what the domain of expertise, it takes about 10,000 hours to become a master at anything.

From the Beatles to Bill Gates, to even Mozart, the vast majority of people we see as geniuses have invested 10,000+ hours to become a master at what they do. I submit if you interview any of the top copywriters, this rule will be reaffirmed.

To the point: Write. And write a lot. Sharpen your saw. Hone your craft. Whether you have a Client or not.

My strategy? Initially, I was my own Client.

Best of success,

- Rick Duris