The Care and Feeding of Copywriters

[RickDuris]

Dear Fellow Marketer,

Like you, I am a marketer.

But at my core, in my heart, I am a copywriter. I get paid thousands per sales letter and email. Frankly, even more than the late, revered Gary Halbert, the Prince of Print.

Many online marketers frequent this forum to find that one, special, gifted copywriter who has what it takes to write copy for them.

It's to *YOU*, this post is directed.

Recently, I was personally challenged (i.e. insulted) on this forum and the experience gave me cause to reflect whether or not I should even bother trying to help marketers here.

I was going to quit this forum today because some marketer folks just don't get it.

Fortunately, several of the successful marketers and copywriters I respect, (no, I won't name names,) "talked me off the ledge."

(You know who you are. And I thank you. )

I realize, at times, my personal delivery can be curt, terse, abrupt, blunt and direct. While I always have the time to be concise, I sometimes may not have the time to sugarcoat or wrap my words in flowery language, making the bitter pill of reality easier to swallow.

In fact, my business card says exactly that. It says "Rick Duris is blunt, straightforward and may not tell you what you want to hear."

I WILL call someone's baby ugly, if it deserves it. I do not discriminate. Please, never, ever take it personally.

That being stated, I love you, as a marketer.

If you ask for a critique and I respond, it may sting, it may make you wince, it may indeed hurt, it may cause you to say "D*** it, I just paid a guy X dollars and all I got was this c***** website."

But if you follow my advice, you WILL profit.

But this post is not about me. That's not why I am writing this.

It's about EVERY OTHER eager, hard working, ambitious copywriter that frequents this forum and contributes their time to help marketers like you as well as other copywriters.

In order to get the results you are looking for here, no matter what they are, you must understand four SIMPLE things about us copywriters. Most people do not understand these things and you knowing them WILL make you a better marketer.

They WILL give you a competitive advantage. So please, please listen.

I am going to go through them in detail. Again, please indulge me for a moment. It's only to your benefit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

First, you need to know, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING to a copywriter is their mindset. Period.

We protect our mindset at all costs. We stand an ever vigilant guard at the door of our minds.

Stated differently, a copywriter needs to be constantly INSPIRED BY YOU and your product in order to contribute to you. If we lose our inspiration, even for a moment, it's over and neither of us will get the result you want for your webpage or your business.

You want us to crow about you and your product and company. You want us to BELIEVE. You want us singing your praises to the high heavens.

Help us do that.

For instance, most copywriters I know, they will work their hearts out, they will slit their wrist, open a vein and bleed all over the floor, just to know they have contributed to you here on this forum.

I have seen it on this forum enough times to know and I am constantly amazed and inspired.

You doing even a rather small thing like hitting the "Thanks!" button for example on our posts, has a HUGE impact on our day, lifts our spirits to the stratosphere, makes us jubilant and makes us want to contribute even more to you.

No kidding.

Some of the marketers come here looking like a newborn cuddly, cute little adorable puppy... some come here looking like a ragged mutt which hasn't seen a meal in days and has the mange... Some are kennel club, best of breed show dogs... some come here looking like a battle-scarred, battle-fatigued, ultra-cautious guard dog longingly looking for someone they can trust and believe in.

No matter. It makes no difference.

Because any copywriter who spends any time at all here ULTIMATELY wants to contribute to *YOU*--freely, willingly, and yes, admittedly maybe in hopes of landing you as a Client.

But based upon my experience in the last few months, we always want to serve you, contribute to you and help you succeed. We rejoice in seeing YOU do well.

But to the point: Please inspire us, never insult us.

Insulting, even remotely, is extremely counter productive. If you do, like a tiger or a lion, our claws will come out, our fangs will be barred and the conversation go downhill immediately.

Unless we have the self-awareness to "bite our tongue." Which it's true, we as copywriters, don't always have that self-discipline or self-awareness at times and we sometimes lash out.

You see, when you insult, you inspire us in a DIFFERENT way. A negative way. A way that causes harm with our words. We may not realize it in the moment but it's harmful nonetheless.

It's been said "The pen is mightier than the sword." It's true.

If we are a competent copywriter, we will decimate. I'm talking "scorched earth." Word by word, paragraph by paragraph. It will not be pretty. It will be ugly, and NO ONE will win and no one, I assure you, wants that.

I say this because I have seen it on this forum enough times to know. It can, it will, get ugly, it can get vicious and it just doesn't have to happen.

So help us, help you. Please, only inspire us. This is your first and foremost directive.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second, challenge us.

This is harder in light of what I just said, but like a sports coach, you want to get the very best out of your copywriter and the folks critiquing your website.

It's perfectly ok to challenge, but not in a negative way, lest we get self-defensive and lash back.

You want to constantly encourage... but couch your words... ask "why?"... and demand why we are advocating a certain strategy or piece of copy. In other words, you want us to work hard to earn your business and prove we have the copywriting chops.

It's ok to look at a piece of copy we wrote and say "Not good enough. I think *WE* can do better. I think you can do better. I see it in you."

In a copywriter's brain, we are ALWAYS trying to get better at our craft, at our profession, and improve, and sometimes, like building muscle, there needs to be a bit of resistance, so the muscle fibers are torn a bit and then rebuilt.

But never, ever doubt your copywriter, the folks on this forum, have your best and highest interests at heart. Many here will spend hours analyzing your website and give you a critique worth THOUSANDS of dollars, if you had to pay on the open market.

But at the same time, give us that bit of resistance. Go ahead, you have our permission to challenge us and make us work even more for you.

ALL will benefit from the learning.

Us copywriters will adore you for it, because it will make us even better in the process.

Just don't go down insult road.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third, unequivocally, stick to your agreements.

When you ultimately hire your copywriter, pay them per the agreed upon terms. To the letter.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, takes the wind out of a copywriter's inspirational sails faster than not being paid as agreed.

Now I realize there occasionally may be upsets and disagreements. That's business. But by and large, pay us as originally specified.

Again--when we go to bed each night, you want us dreaming about you and your business.

In the morning, you want us lifting you up again and singing your praises to the high, high heavens. We will do it gladly, with a song in our hearts.

Paying us gives us the freedom, flexibility and permission to do just that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth, back up the dump truck and unload EVERYTHING you have.

What do I mean by that?

Well, a copywriter FEEDS on research. For a copywriter, information is the breakfast of champions. We are information piranhas. We NEED research about you, your products, your competition, your company, your customers, your prospects, your reputation. I could go on.

Good or bad, whatever it is, shower us, better yet flood us, with information.

Hold nothing back. Even the occasional bad stuff. One little (maybe inconsequential to you) thing could SO make the difference and as a result, transform YOUR financial destiny.

If you're asking for a copy critique on this forum, give us as much information as you possibly can.

For instance, you should NOT worry about inconsequential things like "I do not want to them to access my info product, they might rip it off." Trust me on this, WE DON'T CARE. But something you may have said or done in your info product may totally inspire us and GIVE YOU the headline or hook or strategy you've been yearning for.

You want that, yes?

Go ahead, do it via PM. That works. This isn't about anything except you getting the results you are looking for as quickly as possibly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that's it in a nutshell.

Inspire us, challenge us, pay us like clockwork and give us the information we need to do our best work for you.

We will work our hearts out for you on your behalf.

Think of it this way. A few years ago, there was a TV show called "Star Trek: the Next Generation."

The show (and movie) regularly focused on a large group of half human, half android beings called "The Borg."

They were of a collective mind. One goal. Total domination.

Consider us, YOUR copywriting "Borg." We have only one goal: Your success. "Resistance is futile."

- Rick Duris

PS: One of my partners, actually inspired this post. When it comes to copywriters, he "gets it" implicitly. He has a habit of demanding more from me than I will ever demand from myself. And I am forever grateful and eternally eager to please (and collaboratively profit.)

[dorothydot]

Dear Rick,

You have absolutely, totally NAILED it!

May I please, PLEASE? post this on my website? Naturally I'll credit you - and if you want to give me a credit box or something, I'll be happy to include it.

But this SOOO says what we copywriters are about. Your words are golden!

Even if you don't want me to use this, I thank you very much for writing and posting this.

Sincerely,
Dot Pecson, Copywriter

[RickDuris]

HI Dorothy,

Thank you. Sincerely.

But no, no, no. I sincerely did not write this to call attention to myself. I wrote this because I saw something that was wrong, something that hurt me and I wanted to inform.

If you want to give me credit, it's appreciated but not necessary. If you want to push out, under your own byline, I am ok with that too. I mean that.

We have a WONDERFUL forum for aspiring and experienced marketers, and my only hope and joy is that we optimize and exploit it for everything it's capable of.

- Rick Duris

[k0zm0zs0ul]

Agreed! I'd love to use this too, but definitely prefer to assign credit where it's due. That was an amazing post Rick and so appreciated. I really hope that all the members of the forum and those that visit read it and take it to heart. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it!

Warm regards,
C

[dorothydot]

Thank you, Rick. Most sincerely, thank you.

I've posted it on my blog - and I included what you have here in your signature.

My thanks for letting me post this. It is really well-worded and true!

Sincerely,
Dot

[Flierboy]

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

Four Warriors I've had recently on this forum not
pay me as agreed, a total of just under $15,000
still owed.

What a*holes You should name them here to:

a) publicly shame them
b) warn other warriors to not do business with them

I don't see how you would be breaking any rules here.

-Ritesh

[RickDuris]

Hi k0zm0zs0ul

Thank you. Thank you so much.

k0zm0zs0ul, you push it out however and in whatever way you see fit. I trust you.

You, and anyone in the future, have my full, irrevocable permission. I did not write this post to bring attention to myself.

Obviously, I would, anyone would, like to be acknowledged, but it's not necessary to me. I did not write this to do anything except support marketers and copywiters on the Warrior Forum, like you.

And to the person that insulted me? THIS is what *YOU* created. This is what a copywriter can do, when inspired.

There are OUTSTANDING copywriters on this forum that are be willing to help you. But you HAVE to respect. Admittedly we have our "quirks," but we *KNOW* (like in a no doubt, no kidding, sort of way) our stuff.

Thank you for asking, k0zm0zs0ul. I am indebted, I acknowledge and I thank you.

- Rick Duris

[Alex Cohen]

If they live on 'foreign' soil, you can't exactly push
them through the small claims court for the money
owed, the amounts individually are too small.

Actually, that may not be the case.

Years ago, I had a business here in the U.S. helping people claim money that rightfully belonged to them but was unclaimed. I charged a percentage of the amount received. To make sure they knew everything was on the up and up, I didn't require payment until after they had collected the funds.

When somebody wouldn't pay me, I'd find an attorney in their city who specialized in collections, and turn the case over to him. If the person paid without court, they charged me 33%. Otherwise it was 50%.

If your deadbeat clients are here in the U.S., there's no reason why you couldn't do the same.

Alex

[RickDuris]

To everyone who has publicly and privately encouraged me and acknowledged me for this thread/post...

Thank you. Sincerely.

If you understand the word "sincerely," you must understand this:

The word “Sincerely” means "Without wax."

Sin = Without. Cere = Wax.

You see, in Roman times, less than ethical sculptors would often coat their statues in wax, to make them look beautiful. They wanted the gloss. So they would fetch a higher price at market, or to sell to an unsuspecting buyer.

But the moment the wax was stripped of the statue, the flaws... major and minor... would be revealed.

And the owner/buyer would feel "taken."

I have flaws, I admit. I have shared a couple of these with you today.

I'm only human. My Partners and Clients know this. They think of me a bit as an "idiot savant copywriter."

Behind my back, and even to my face occasionally, they call me "Rainman."

They would not be wrong. My words just flow. I can not help it.

But they'll also tell you I have a profound desire to contribute to *YOU*, to help YOU make money--whether you're a marketer, a copywriter, or one who only desires to succeed in life.

So when I say the word "sincerely" in THIS context, it means something entirely different than it does to most people.

For most, "sincerely" is a common colloquialism. It's a "throwaway word." One most give little thought to.

But for me, "sincerely" means I am BARING MY SOUL at the deepest of levels. Without Wax. And when I write the words "thank you," you MUST understand, I am ETERNALLY grateful and indebted. (Please, don't even get me started on that lexicon.

So to those who have shared your thoughts with me publicly as well as privately, or if you hit the "Thanks!" button...

Thank you.

I feel blessed. You are, indeed, angels in my life.

Sincerely,

- Rick Duris

[Jag82]

Good post Rick.

Just to keep things short, I want to say that this
post is very timely. And most of us need this.

For copywriters. And clients.

Jag

[AM Faisal]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

To everyone who has publicly and privately acknowledged me for this thread/post...

Thank you. Sincerely.

If you understand the word "sincerely," you must understand this:

The word “Sincerely” means "Without wax."

Sin = Without. Cere = Wax.

You see, in Roman times, less than ethical sculptors would often coat their statues in wax, to make them look beautiful. They wanted the gloss. So they would fetch a higher price at market, or to sell to an unsuspecting buyer.

But the moment the wax was stripped of the statue, the flaws... major and minor... would be revealed.

And the owner/buyer would feel "taken."

I have flaws, I admit. I have shared a couple of these with you today.

I'm only human. My Partners and Clients know this. They think of me a bit as an "idiot savant copywriter."

They would not be wrong. My words just flow. I can not help it.

But they'll also tell you I have a profound desire to contribute to *YOU*, to help YOU make money--whether you're a marketer, a copywriter, or one who only desires to succeed in life.

So when I say the word "sincerely" in THIS context, it means something entirely different than it does to most people.

For most, "sincerely" is a common colloquialism. It's a "throwaway word." One most give little thought to.

But for me, "sincerely" means I am BARING MY SOUL at the deepest of levels. Without Wax. And when I write the words "thank you," you MUST understand, I am ETERNALLY grateful and indebted. (Please, don't even get me started on that lexicon.

So to those who have shared your thoughts with me publicly as well as privately, or if you hit the "Thanks!" button...

Thank you.

I feel blessed. You are, indeed, angels in my life.

Sincerely,

- Rick Duris

Sincerely = Without Wax
I read that in one of Dan Brown's novel.

Keeping novels aside, I want to thank you Rick for this wonderful post. It was timely and very much needed.

I even want to thank those people who helped Rick get off the ledge. If he would have stopped posting here, it would have been a massive loss to this community.

[Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Richards

Sincerely = Without Wax
I read that in one of Dan Brown's novel.

WAIT...that's it! If you just take the 1st letter of each line of each one of Rick's posts there is a secret code known only to the ancient society of copywriters known as The Legion.

It points to a "seerers stone" buried somewhere near the grave of Claude Hopkins.

I'm off to investigate...

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

WAIT...that's it! If you just take the 1st letter of each line of each one of Rick's posts there is a secret code known only to the ancient society of copywriters known as The Legion.

It points to a "seerers stone" buried somewhere near the grave of Claude Hopkins.

I'm off to investigate...

Mate, you're clueless.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Man...what in God's name do you say after a post like that?

For what it's worth, and maybe I've never said this to you, but the few
comments you've made in reply to my few threads here have helped me
a lot. You're true to your word...you don't sugar coat things.

You said that my test headline wouldn't convert.

It didn't.

I'm going to change it.

You know your sh*t.

And there aren't many people here who I can say that about.

So in short, thank you for being you.

[RickDuris]

Kevin, while I know you meant it in gest, you are NOT far off. Truly... you are not far off.

But your post brought a giggle to my lips and a smile to my face.

Thank you,

- Rick Duris

[Collette]

Originally Posted by Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter

WAIT...that's it! If you just take the 1st letter of each line of each one of Rick's posts there is a secret code known only to the ancient society of copywriters known as The Legion.

...

Shouldn't that be a "Never Before Revealed, Jealously Guarded, Known Only to a Select Few Insiders, Top-Secret Code"?

[Ken_Caudill]

Originally Posted by Collette

Shouldn't that be a "Never Before Revealed, Jealously Guarded, Known Only to a Select Few Insiders, Top-Secret Code"?

Is that the one that made a complete newbie 9,548.63 on her first day?

If it is, you can pick it up on the WSO board for seven bucks,

Hurry.

[RickDuris]

Ken, Collette and others,

You have created a bright spot in my day. You made me laugh out loud.

- Rick Duris

[Collette]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Ken, Collette and others,

You have created a bright spot in my day. You made me laugh out loud.

- Rick Duris

And I did it without holding your feet to the fire and forcing you to spill the beans.

'Cause I'm talented like that...

[Collette]

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Is that the one that made a complete newbie 9,548.63 on her first day?

If it is, you can pick it up on the WSO board for seven bucks,

Hurry.

Sorry - the price just went up to 9.97. And it's only good for the next 1,364 serious buyers.

After which time, this incredible treasure trove of cash-sucking information will no longer be available to the suck... er... slowpokes who weren't committed enough to seize this amazing fast track to overnight wealth.

I'm not kidding. You'll never again receive this once-in-a-lifetime offer. Never. Ever. Again.

Never.

Or, at least, not until the next guru JV...

[clwest]

Rick:

It is refreshing that you are as true and blunt as you are.

Quite frankly, most of the flotsam and jetsam out there do not
understand the power of words and think their "awesome iders"
are all that count. You, just mererly string a few words together
and viola, a sales letter/landing page, etc.

I guess the intangible thought process is too much for scammers
and whiners to handle.

Again, thank you for the honesty!

[Ronak Shah]

Rick:

Your posts actually explained prospective clients and fellow warriors...

WHY you must not feel hurt..

coz you can't tell a cactus to be like a flower. LOL. jokin'.

Well, in serious terms.. I'd say, we copywriters write about things like they really are and not fake it.

We contribute only for the better of our members here.

So I gracefully agree with your posts. Beautiful stuff. You took time out for writing this one.. COOOOL! Keep it up Rick.

[RickDuris]

Steven, you are generous with your words, and prolific in your contribution on this forum. I am always in awe.

I can not do what you do so well.

- Rick Duris

[Jacob Anthony]

This post in my eyes is EXACTLY why good copy writers should be revered.

I'm not sucking up here either.

Someone who can use something as cold as a white screen with black text to literally grab a person by the hand and motivate them to buy something they can neither see, touch or smell is truly AMAZING!

I mean, I'm a very good sales person face to face and on the phone, but you guys that can make something sell in the way you do, are TRULY SOMETHING ELSE!

I personally think that article writers should be aiming towards this amount of passion for their craft and should be taking note of what is being said here. I know that as an article writer, I feel it's my responsibility to put every ounce of my being into the work I'm doing as it will have a direct effect on my clients business.

Alright, an article isn't always going to convert a visitor into a client in the way that sales copy will, but it will influence that visitor's trust in your client.

BTW Rickduris, You are the man! I for one prefer people to be absolutely straight with me. I'm also the kind of person who says what he means and means what he says. No fluff, no filler as they say!

[RickDuris]

Thanks Mitchymoo! I hit the "Thanks!" button.

Your words inspire not only me, but probably many other copywriters reading this thread today.

Thank you again,

Sincerely,

Rick Duris

[Sam Mlambo]

Hey Rick,

Your post is very uplifting. As i read i found myself nodding in agreement with what you were saying. I hope more marketers come take a look at this post. They would benefit from knowing how to build strong relationships with copywriters.

Because the stronger the relationship the more money to be made for both sides.

Thanks for not leaving the forum. We need more people like you

- Sam

[Bret Ferguson]

Rick,

Thanks for a great post! That was "nutshell" ha! I have found your advice great the times I have seen it. I've kept a file of good stuff I see on here and your words have been copied more than once. (can I do that...uhhh......moving on) Stuff I will go back and chew on again and again. You gave me a quote in which I greatly appreciate and still use.

Hopefully I don't come off as "that guy" at anytime.

This will come back to you in many good ways without a doubt!

"some come here looking like a ragged mutt which hasn't seen a meal in days and has the mange" Man you had me laughing at this, out loud actually........then I thought.......is he talking about me? (still laughing) I eat well.

Thanks again for a great post.

- Bret

[digidoodles]

Interesting post... and some may or may not agree with me, but oh well! I'm pretty blunt too.

You have to admit.. some copywriters bring crap on themselves.

Humility is not the first word that comes to mind when I think of a lot of copywriters on this forum. (Hey, you don't have to like what I say, but that's a two-way street!)

My daddy always says the cream rises to the top. And those that go around telling others how great they are, usually aren't.

Self-assurance is one thing. Being an arrogant idiot, another.

Warmly,

Brandi

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by digidoodles

Self-assurance is one thing. Being an arrogant idiot, another.

Warmly,

Brandi

Brandi, some of the greatest actors in history were said to be jackasses,
but that didn't make them any less of an actor.

Unfortunately, when some people are good...and I mean really good...they
have to let others know just how good.

It goes with human nature and it's not going to change anytime soon.

It's just the way some people are.

[grayambition]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Unfortunately, when some people are good...and I mean really good...they
have to let others know just how good.

Ah, but are they really good or have they simply convinced us that's the case by repeating it ad nauseum? I'm by no means suggesting that applies to anyone in this thread. But certainly not every person who declares him or herself a master copywriter (or a master anything else) actually is. It falls to the client to do due diligence and sort through all the egos and outrageous claims.

I have no doubt I am risking life and limb by daring to breathe a word of dissent, especially since I don't have a high post count. I've seen all the "who the f*** are you to question anything in this forum when you've only posted [#] times in [#] years" posts. Oh well. As my teenage niece says, whatever.

But here it is. Sometimes the Emperor DOES have no clothes. And how is the poor "ragged mutt" to determine the truth?

I don't know any of you in this thread. Am I to believe implicitly that, because you tell me you're a great copywriter, whatever you do is correct, no questions asked?

I've worked with many writers and other artists. And yes, I do believe a good writer is (or can be) an artist. There are many, many good writers. What makes the difference for me, and what is much more rare than writing ability, is the ability and desire to truly collaborate in the process.

If the writer sees me as a lesser being who doesn't have a clue, well, we probably won't go very far together. If the writer sees me as a fellow intelligent human being whose ideas may have some merit, good. It's usually easy to tell at first meeting which way it will go. But I did end up getting sucked in by one graphic designer who "knew" how things should be. When he presented me with his masterpiece, I dared to mention that orange isn't one of my favorite colors and pointed out a couple of errors. He went ballistic.

Now I'm not saying that's the way any of you would react to a bit of feedback. But what's the line between "feedback" and "insult"?

Rick, you said, "Insulting, even remotely, is extremely counter productive. If you do, like a tiger or a lion, our claws will come out, our fangs will be barred and the conversation go downhill immediately."

What do you consider a "remote" insult? I don't know what was said to you, but perhaps it was simply someone who deigned to disagree with you and possibly didn't express that disagreement in elegant language. I don't know.

So, if you consider this a "challenge," I suppose your "claws will come out." In my opinion, we're ALL open to challenge and question. No one is above acting like a human being, and no one has ALL the answers. For virtually every question in this forum, there are multiple opinions regarding the correct solution.

Steve, you talked about actors. I used to act and direct, and I've worked with some brilliant actors. But I fired one brilliant actor because his ego caused him to disrupt the entire cast. There's always another brilliant actor (or copywriter) who learned in kindergarten how to play well with others.

I hate to bring Tiger Woods into this, but I couldn't help seeing part of his apology. He said [paraphrase] he got caught up in the rarefied atmosphere and didn't think the normal rules applied to him. To me, the most telling thing he said (sincere or not) was that he now knows that the rules that apply to normal folks also apply to him. He's absolutely brilliant at what he does, but his ego and hubris brought him down.

NONE of us is so special that we're not subject to normal human courtesies. "Blunt and direct" are great; straightforward communication is my favored mode. But "curt, terse, and abrupt" may make you difficult to deal with. It's all in the tone.

Rant over.

p.s. I do agree with you on several of your points, particularly the importance of thank you's. We all need appreciation and inspiration. And of course you need every bit of data at your disposal; any client who thinks they need to hide aspects of their business from their writer are just plain dumb.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by grayambition

But "curt, terse, and abrupt" may make you difficult to deal with.

Ah yes...describes Gary Halbert to a "t". He didn't suffer fools. But the guy was a genius at making millions for his clients - just like some of the guys on this forum.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by grayambition

Ah, but are they really good...

.
.
.

Rant over.

Not disagreeing with anything you said. If you read my post, nowhere did
I say it was right for people to act this way. I merely said that this is the
way some people act...like it or not.

And some of those people are extremely talented.

I am speaking from personal experience. I come from a family of actors,
musicians and other "artists".

The egos could fill up a room the size of Texas, and some of the knock
down drag outs got pretty ugly.

I remember when I was 10 years old, I used to go with my mom, who was
a concert pianist and opera singer, to this one opera company she played
for. These people were all good...very good.

Well, one night, there was a disagreement about the arrangement.

The female lead (I think she was a lyric soprano) wasn't happy with it
and my mother, who knew damn well how to play for singers, said that
she was flat out wrong.

That's when the insults starting flying, including this woman telling my
mother that she wasn't going to be the prima donna, the she was the
prima donna.

It was the funniest thing I'd ever heard in my life. These adults, acting
like children.

I was 10.

But listen to my mom play (God rest her soul) and this woman sing, and
there could be no question as to the talent in that room.

No, you have no way of knowing who is really that good and who is just
blowing smoke until you see their work.

My point is, these people exist. And you can say that there are others
who can replace them.

Maybe...but maybe not.

How many movies, TV shows, musical groups, and I can go on and on,
would have been the same if <fill in the name> was not a part of it?

What you say sounds great on paper, but in reality, it doesn't wash.

Because in this world, when you have people who are so incredibly
talented, you are going to have incredible egos.

If you're going to let that ego put you into a position where you say,
"screw you, I don't need your service" you may be putting yourself in a
situation where you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Sometimes dealing with egos is the price we pay to get the top quality
product that we want.

If that's not important to you and you'd rather deal with somebody who
you like, that's fine.

Just don't expect Joseph Stern to be able to replace Richard Dryfuss.

(MASH fanatics will know what I'm talking about)

[RickDuris]

Hi all,

In my book, and if you're good at what you do, if you're a copywriter, here's the paradox/dilemma:

You literally have no time. You're just too d*** busy.

Yet--On the other hand and I can't speak for others but it is true for me--here you are, blessed (and mostly cursed) with a talent few possess, and you want to contribute.

You want to share. You want to give back, you want to "give a leg up" to someone.

So you flash off a couple posts to be helpful (as in my case,) and people sometimes take your directness as an insult. And then (probably because people don't know you and there is no backstory) the oncoming attacks sometimes get personal and then "all h*** breaks loose" because now you've unintentionally insulted.

And unless someone has the presence of mind to calm things down (and many of you are good at doing that (hint: Mike H.)), it leads nowhere good.

Which if that is ever the case with me, I so apologize to anyone and everyone, because that is so not what I intended.

Even if you, as a reader, did nothing more than glance at my posts while this was happening---like when I did with my daughter when she was way younger and we were watching TV and there was an unanticipated s** scene on TV--I would "shield her eyes" with my hands until it was over.

I ONLY want to serve, contribute, lift up and admire others' brilliance at the same time.

Sincerely,

- Rick Duris

PS: By the way, my daughter told me last week she has her first boyfriend. She's 14. I know her spirits are lifted as I write this.

[MikeHumphreys]

Hi Jan,

You raise some really good points. I'm just going to tackle one of them that you mentioned: ego.

As a copywriter, it's really easy to let your ego take over situations. If you've had the least bit of success for your clients, some of them will help feed your ego when you've written a home run piece for them that makes them a ton of money.

Clients don't want to hire a copywriter who *thinks* that maybe... well, possibly... they could write something that makes their clients a little bit of money. Client don't want the slumped over depressed copywriter.

No way.

They want a copywriter who is quite confident that they have the ability -- the chops -- to deliver profits for their clients. They want the copywriter who walks into the room and the energy in the room immediately picks up.

Make no mistake about it: EVERY really good or great copywriter has a serious ego and rarely lacks confidence about their ability. The ones who aren't thought of having a big ego... it's because they celebrate their success privately and keep a level head professionally.

It's their professional reputation on the line everytime they sit down and write a marketing piece for their clients. When you do create a hit for your clients, then it's human nature to want to celebrate (even if it's privately) the successes.

Unemotional flat copy doesn't make sales. Emotionally charged, confident copy that connects with the targeted prospects does. The most effective way to create emotionally charged copy is to be feeling confident when you sit down to write that copy.

Where copywriters get in trouble is displaying their ego in places like a public forum. That's where folks can get upset, especially if they get roughed up by a copywriter on a critique.

To a copywriter, that's no big deal... most of us do tough love critiques for each other... some of the ones I've gotten (and given) have been downright harsh. Every one of the critiques have been 100% accurate, take it to the bank advice... advice that helped improve the copy in question.

The thing is... our job is to make our clients money -- ideally a lot of money.

When a client's bank account is on the line, then the copy you wrote better be good or your client could be faced with a marketing disaster.

Granted, there are other things besides the copy that can sink a marketing campaign but a proud copywriter wants to make sure that they aren't the reason for sub-par results.

John Carlton also has a great article that is excellent advice for copywriters and their clients. John's not afraid to call it like he sees it and that's one of the reasons why he's got a long-standing strong rep in the copywriting industry field. (he's also a great copywriter and marketer in his own right).

Here's a link to that article:

Bamboozled By Babble | The Official Blog of John Carlton

The part of John's article that struck me as most profound was this...

"People who can talk the talk… but can’t walk the walk… are causing some serious financial damage out there.

It has ever been thus… until you get hip to how things really get done.

When money is on the line… especially your money (connected to the success or failure of your biz)…

… screw charm.

Some (actually, maybe most) of the best marketing and business minds I’ve ever met…

… are charm-challenged, grizzled, anti-social quasi-nut jobs.

You don’t have to like the dude who rescues your ass.

You just gotta learn to tell the difference between him, and the dazzling scumball out to gut your wallet.

Let your trust be earned."

In other words, don't fear the ogre. Toss him/her some raw meat, take a step back to get out of the way, and let them write you some kick-a$$ sales copy that fills your bank account.

Take care,

Mike

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

PS: By the way, my daughter told me last week she has her first boyfriend. She's 14. I know her spirits are lifted as I write this.

Rick, you're reminding me of something Denzel Washington said during an appearance on one of the late night shows a few years ago. I think it was Letterman but I'm not 100% sure. It's definitely part of my "dad swipe file" for future use though.

The host asked him how he was doing with his oldest daughter starting to date. Denzel said he insists on meeting the young man before his daughter can go out on a first date with him.

Denzel said he tells each young man the same thing.

"Son, I own a gun and a shovel. I'm not afraid to use either one if you disrespect my daughter."

Take care,

Mike

[RickDuris]

Mike, are my phones being tapped? LOL

Because on a phone call with my daughter last week, I said this:

"Sweetie, I am sending over a picture. It's a picture of my gun collection. Send it over to Mitchell immediately."

She giggled a bit. And then, she understood--I was serious.

- Rick Duris

PS: As Fathers, with our daughters, nobody F**** with us.

[Jacob Anthony]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Mike, are my phones being tapped? LOL

Because on a phone call with my daughter last week, I said this:

"Sweetie, I am sending over a picture. It's a picture of my gun collection. Send it over to Mitchell immediately."

She giggled a bit. And then, she understood--I was serious.

- Rick Duris

PS: As Fathers, with our daughters, nobody F**** with us.

Too right! Like I said earlier, my daughter is not going out until she's 30!!!!

[deannatroupe]

OMG! This thread has taken a different turn since the last time I read it. I love the quote from Denzel about dating. I'm gonna have to add that one to the mommy files! Great stuff about copywriting Rick! Gave me something to think about.

[DanPE]

Originally Posted by Collette

And I did it without holding your feet to the fire

Actually that sounds kind of fun...

[Skyrider]

I'm a newbee and enjoyed reading this thread, even when it got off topic.

I'd like to ask a question: Some days ago I saw a piece of software that would take an article and basically "rewrite" it. I wondered at the time if it were a jealously guarded copyright how much of a chance the newly written piece would stand a legal test of scrutiny.

Does anyone know the software name of which I'm speaking? And what of your opinions?

Thanks,

~Sky

[EddyCroft]

Very good post Rick.

Thanks for taking time out to write it... will certainly help my business (and any copywriter I work with.) in the long-term.

Cheers,

Eddy