Wanna Be Copywriters...Be Careful What You Wish For

[Steven Wagenheim]

Straight to the point.

I'm finally starting to get copywriting clients. I'm only taking on jobs I know
I can do well and declining niches where I know I'd have to do way too much
research.

In the process, I'm still taking a look at how much work is involved
(considerable) and what I'm being paid for that amount of work and have
come to the realization....

That I have to be out of my mind.

To put it into perspective.

I can spend 8 hours creating a limited run product and make $3,000 from
it with no problem.

That comes out to about $400 per hour of work. I figure my time is worth
at least $100 an hour so I'm happy.

A simple sales page with one product and no bonuses takes me about 48
hours of work between reading the product and writing the sales page
and I get about $2,500 for the job.

That comes out to a little over $50 per hour.

I was making $25 per hour when i worked a job 10 years ago.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Sure, if I've got nothing better to do with my time and I'm just going to be
sitting around twiddling my thumbs or playing video games, yeah, I guess
it's worth doing.

But if I can do other things that will bring me in more money for the same
amount of work...why am I killing myself?

Point is, this really has to be something you love doing and not just for
the money, because as a marketer, something I've been now for over 7
years, there are much easier ways to make $2,500.

It's certainly food for thought for those of you thinking of getting into this
like I did this year. Yeah, with my rep as a marketer, it didn't take me long
to get clients.

But I'm starting to think that maybe I've just taken on my last one.

Cause like I said...there are easier ways to make a buck.

Just my 2 cents on the subject for whatever they're worth.

[Nathan Alexander]

But now you'll always be known and respected for yet one more thing. And I've got to imagine that that can never hurt your prices anywhere.

Very cool.

[Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter]

I have never thought writing copy for others was as lucrative as writing copy for yourself. In my mind the difference is one of commitment.

When I write copy for others I start and finish and then don't have any responsibilities until I take another client/

When I write copy for myself I feel a need to maintain a website, put out emails to my email list, etc. It's much more like "running a business."

Sure you can delegate those things, but only as much as you have trained people who can be trusted to work on your business unsupervised. That isn't as easy as hiring some Philippine VA for $40/wk. Finding qualified people you can trust and afford to run things is a long-term job.

[TimCastleman]

Steve -

Amen.

Look one day I might write copy for someone else but right now the time I spend is on growing my business and not someone else.

Put out a product, write the copy and repeat.

Tim

[R Hagel]

Hi Steve,

Let's say you went to college today and got out in four years with an accounting degree. Would you expect to immediately earn the top salary for accountants?

Or think back to when you first started in IM -- you made peanuts while you were learning.

Same thing here.

It seems like very little money for a whole lot of work. If you never raised your prices... well then yeah, writing copy for others would totally blow.

But get some letters under your belt, raise your prices, start pulling royalties... and suddenly your "hourly wage" for writing copy is going to look a whole lot more attractive.


***

Of course, as mentioned, writing copy for yourself is great too (and more profitable at this point). I'm just saying that writing copy for others CAN be profitable... once you get past the learning stage.

Cheers,
Becky

[Scott Murdaugh]

"Clients Suck" - Gary Halbert

Between prospecting for clients and then doing the actual work, yeah, this whole copywriting thing isn't easy sometimes. Add a ton of pressure to perform and it gets pretty stressful.

Here's a few things I've learned since I started freelancing to make sure my clients don't suck...

1. If I can't talk to a prospect like I can a friend, we won't work out. This morning, talked to a prospective client. By the end of the call we're both joking around and got along great. If I ever sense that a client wants to micro-manage me, or we just don't "jive" on a certain level, it's not worth the stress.

2. I always let them know how I work. I will disappear, and I will do my own thing. I'll meet the deadline, but I won't be updating you every hour of the day. If you want to talk to me, that's fine, but give me at least 24 hours to get back to you. I'll turn the copy in when it's ready, and I'll answer any questions you have.

3. I only work in niches that I already know well, or that I'm very interested in learning. I'm about to dive head first into a niche I've never written for, but it's something I've wanted to learn about for awhile. Getting paid to learn about a subject I want to learn about anyway is fun. Anytime this job isn't fun, it's not worth it.

4. I like product launches, but I tend to like websites with existing traffic better. If they have a sales letter I know I can beat, I'm confident going into the job. And I can get feedback on conversions within hours of it going live. For product launches, I like working with guys who have experience driving traffic.

5. Repeat clients rock. The entire conversation can be "here's the product, here's the payment, talk to you in a month."

6. Don't let clients owe you money, especially a lot of it. I generally ask for 100% upfront. Sometimes with new clients I'll do 50%. 100% saves a lot of headaches and time.

Some of that, especially #2, may sound a little cocky. It's not. Just because a client is paying me doesn't mean they can call me up on my cell to chat 24/7. I used to be a lot more available than I am now. It cost me time and money, and clients still get 100% out of me.

Having said all of that, I agree... For me, freelancing is most likely a temporary gig.

I do enjoy it, however it's stressful, and technically it's still a J.O.B., trading hours for dollars.

Craig Garber told me "Those who understand marketing strategy get rich, those who write good copy keep getting paid to write good copy."

I think that's a good way to sum it up. I don't dislike freelancing, I usually love it. But I see myself focusing on my own stuff in the very near future.

-Scott

[MikeHumphreys]

Hey Steven,

You can't compare your established info-product business to your new copywriting start-up. It's not a fair comparision.

Before you built your info-product business to six-figures, how many products did you launch that bombed? Or underperformed?

Not every product anyone creates will be a hit. If they were, then everybody would make 7 figures from their info-product businesses.

Three years from now... If you're still charging the same copywriting fees, then I'd worry about it. Right now, you getting in the trenches experiences which is completely different than when you write for your own products.

I enjoy creating my own info-products and writing client copy. It's the best of both worlds. I get to work on my own info-product business when I want and get to help others grow their businesses too.

When I write copy for clients, I don't pick up their additional stressors to add to my own... the additional stressors that come with a lot of products/sites with customer support, membership sites that offer brand-new monthly content, finding JV partners or affiliates to promote, etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes it's more fun to come in as the hired gun... write some kick-a$$ great copy for my client... collect my fee... and skip the drawbacks that come with their respective info-product businesses.

Take care,

Mike

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Hey Steven,

You can't compare your established info-product business to your new copywriting start-up. It's not a fair comparision.

Before you built your info-product business to six-figures, how many products did you launch that bombed? Or underperformed?

Not every product anyone creates will be a hit. If they were, then everybody would make 7 figures from their info-product businesses.

Three years from now... If you're still charging the same copywriting fees, then I'd worry about it. Right now, you getting in the trenches experiences which is completely different than when you write for your own products.

I enjoy creating my own info-products and writing client copy. It's the best of both worlds. I get to work on my own info-product business when I want and get to help others grow their businesses too.

When I write copy for clients, I don't pick up their additional stressors to add to my own... the additional stressors that come with a lot of products/sites with customer support, membership sites that offer brand-new monthly content, finding JV partners or affiliates to promote, etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes it's more fun to come in as the hired gun... write some kick-a$$ great copy for my client... collect my fee... and skip the drawbacks that come with their respective info-product businesses.

Take care,

Mike

Yes, that's the other side of the coin. I'm glad you brought that up, but
I wanted it to come from somebody who really understands.

Yes, being able to write your copy, get in and get out, does away with
all the worry that goes with creating products.

Believe me, I haven't quite gotten to the point where I am 100% confident
that everything I create is going to be a big seller, though most are.

It's still not guaranteed...whereas your fee IS.

I'm glad you presented the other side...and yes, there are always two
sides.

[janisv]

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Hey Steven,

You can't compare your established info-product business to your new copywriting start-up. It's not a fair comparision.

Before you built your info-product business to six-figures, how many products did you launch that bombed? Or underperformed?

Not every product anyone creates will be a hit. If they were, then everybody would make 7 figures from their info-product businesses.

Three years from now... If you're still charging the same copywriting fees, then I'd worry about it. Right now, you getting in the trenches experiences which is completely different than when you write for your own products.

I enjoy creating my own info-products and writing client copy. It's the best of both worlds. I get to work on my own info-product business when I want and get to help others grow their businesses too.

When I write copy for clients, I don't pick up their additional stressors to add to my own... the additional stressors that come with a lot of products/sites with customer support, membership sites that offer brand-new monthly content, finding JV partners or affiliates to promote, etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes it's more fun to come in as the hired gun... write some kick-a$$ great copy for my client... collect my fee... and skip the drawbacks that come with their respective info-product businesses.

Take care,

Mike

Amen Mike

[wrcato2]

I am just now starting out in my freelance carrier. I am glad that most of you on here only write for yourself, believe me I have done this for the last 5 years (for myself).

To get paid $2,500 or more for doing what I love anyway, for someone else and know what they are up to... it's cream and a know brainer.

[Hugh Thyer]

One of my mentors wrote a sales letter for a client. Took him 2 hours and he got paid $5,000. So it can be lucrative once you're at the top.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan

That is great for him. Now try to do it yourself and try to do it
steady.

Why is it I see copywriters on here who charge $1500-$2500 per
sales letter do a WSO for $397? I love it when they say " I am
doing it to have fun"....

Yeah, it's not as fun doing the same thing for three times the money.

they are doing it because the well ran dry

If someone is writing sales letters for $397 instead of their usual $1500-$2500 then it's because they are not marketing themselves effectively to GET their usual asking fee.

The other major reason is they were overcharging based on what their skill set may be and the market has caught up to them and forced them to shift their prices downward accordingly.

Having said that, I know of several other well-known copywriters who have done an one-time low-cost sales letter to help out a worthy cause.

[Mark McClure]

Steven,

If you ever do big $$ group coaching or go on the seminar circuit, being an info marketer PLUS a copywriter for other peoples` products will get you massive credibility points.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan

Why is it I see copywriters on here who charge $1500-$2500 per sales letter do a WSO for $397?

Ever have someone pay their deposit with an echeck that doesn't clear for seven business days, and your rent's due in three?

[MAJ]

Nowadays practically everyone thinks they can write copy because they read a book.

Just because you read a book on boxing doesn't mean you have any boxing skills.