Best Education For Copywriters?

[Bob Conroy]

Hey all,
I have taken John Carlton's Simple Writing System Course, and have recently begun another online course for copywriting.

What is the best beginner/intermediate course to take that will send you well prepared into the fray?

Thanks!

[vip-ip]

Bob,

Not one book will make you good at it. Best course is to start.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

[DanielleS]

I have to agree with VIP... experience is the best teacher.

Practice, practice, practice.

Then, Dan Kennedy is one of my personal favorites.

Of course, with so much focus now moving to video sales letters, you might want to bypass those two and go straight to Ryan Deiss

-Dani

[Prosechild]

Hi Bob,

I recently finished SWS too and have been devouring all copywriting info I can get my hands on IMO I think we've taken the best course, from what I've been reading on this subforum and elsewhere. So maybe what you're really asking is, what do we do now?? If so, here is advice I've found helpful.

My post count isn't high enough to post links yet, so you'll have to cut/paste into your browser and delete the spaces.

Gary Halbert's advice to a newbie copywriter:

thegaryhalbertletter.com /Newsletters/zfkj_hands_on_experience.htm

[smak]

Gotta add Clayton Makepeace's masterpiece that is 'Total Package'.

This course really covers in depth in step by step fashion the art of copywritting.

Another one I have that to be honest I have not had the time to study but bought it cause of rave reviews is Brian Kieth Voiles 'Admagic' course.

[MikeHumphreys]

For beginner/immediate level training, here are my suggestions...

If you did the SWS course, then you also got Carlton's Kick-Ass Copywriting Secrets of A Marketing Rebel which I liked better than SWS. I'd suggest reviewing that, especially the sections on bullet writing.

Read a few of classic books like Tested Advertising Methods by John Caples and How To Write An Advertisement by Victor Schwab. Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter is also good for teaching you the core fundamentals.

As for throwing your hat into the copywriting ring, then do it. If you're serious about climbing to the upper ranks of copywriter, where your name gets dropped with the other top copywriters then you're going to have to keep working on improving your game.

That means continuing to study copywriting... reading & studying proven winning copy controls (both offline and online)... and having a burning desire to get to the top.

Further down the road, grab Clayton Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System. It's not cheap... but it's the very best copywriting course I've seen to date and I've pretty much seen them all. The amount of information... the quality of material... the swipe file materials... are off the charts.

Best of luck,

Mike

[metabinltd]

Get a copy of the copywriters handbook by bob bly. I've got a bookshelf full of copywriting books and this has to be the best one i've found so far.

Allan forrest smiths videos are also good, he did some seminars with Brett McFall

But Just do it is the best advice i can give, don't learn without starting to practice at the same time.

[ewenmack]

Hi Bob,

If you haven't got this, Marketing Bullets | Gary's Arsenal, then you should.

Names already mentioned in this thread, such as John Carlton and Clayton Makepeace studied
this man's work...as if they were dogs on a trail findiing a bitch on heat!

Need I say more..?

I suspect not, if you are serious in your desire to rise above average.

It's all sitting there for the taking...no charge...no sign up.

All the best for your career,
Ewen

[NinjaBoy]

SWS anyday!

[Paul McQuillan]

Originally Posted by ewenmack

Hi Bob,

If you haven't got this, Marketing Bullets | Gary's Arsenal, then you should.

WOW! That's like a marketing bootcamp

What a great resource. Thanks for posting it (even though it is likely old news to most on here)

[John Breese]

Originally Posted by vip-ip

Bob,

Not one book will make you good at it. Best course is to start.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

Couldn't agree more. I have tons of copywriting books, but I read them as I work.

The best way to get a kickstart?

Find a mean-ass, demanding ball breaker who lives for sales to work for.

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by John Breese

The best way to get a kickstart? Find a mean-ass, demanding ball breaker who lives for sales to work for.

There you go! After that writing is the easy part.

[ewenmack]

Last week, Clayton Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System
was going for half price at his site...better go over there to check it out..
it may be still on sale!

You have read Mikes review, haven't you?

All the best,
Ewen

[ARSuarez]

Originally Posted by ewenmack

Last week, Clayton Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System
was going for half price at his site...better go over there to check it out..
it may be still on sale!

You have read Mikes review, haven't you?

All the best,
Ewen

Hey Ewen,

This is because he is clearing out all the inventory.

Everything is going to be taken off the market. They'll be sending out emails to warn subscribers when a product is on its last week before they get rid of it.

"How To Build A Six Figure Copywriting Business" just went off the market yesterday. His marketing summit is on the last stretch right now, too.

If anyone wants to do any last minute shopping, I advise doing so soon.

Best,

Angel

[OmarBriones]

These are all great resources! And it's definitely best to just start putting it into practice...

I just gotta recommend the one program that has helped me out so much with my copy... Go to tednicholas.com/mp and you will get a super awesome deal on a whole bunch of stuff for trying his mentoring program out for 30 days... In case you don't know who Ted Nicholas is, he's the highest paid copy writer in the world.

Other than that, I would recommend reading all the different marketing and influence books you can find... Yes 50 scientific ways to influence people is one of my favorites.

Also, whenever you're checking out someone else's sales video, page, or emails, look at their copy and see how it works on you.

Hope this helped!

~ Omar

[The Copy Nazi]

Yep...as my learned colleague has pointed out, the writing is the easy part. As Halbert said "Being on-target is much more important than being facile with words".

But having said that...I think an enquiring mind is a great asset for a copywriter. Be interested in everything - no matter how banal. 'cause good research will help you be "on target" and it will be obvious that you know what you're talking about.

Talking about being on target - You gotta be ON TARGET. Read this and weep.

[Kevin Williams]

Damn, I was all ready to tell you what to do until I read Mike's post. I guess he pretty much covered it all. Make sure you hit up those classic books! Salesmanship is timeless.

[Profolegy]

Hi All,
I find this person pretty good - Craig Garber
He has a book out called -"How To Make Maximum Money With Minimum Customers"

Lead Generation Marketing-Business Strategy Consulting-Business Strategic Planning-Copywriting-Emotional Direct Response Marketing

[ARSuarez]

Originally Posted by Profolegy

Hi All,
I find this person pretty good - Craig Garber
He has a book out called -"How To Make Maximum Money With Minimum Customers"

Lead Generation Marketing-Business Strategy Consulting-Business Strategic Planning-Copywriting-Emotional Direct Response Marketing

Hi Prof,

Craig is a really sharp guy with lots of information.

However, I think his book is best as a start manual. If you've really not read much copy or studied much marketing, Maximum Money With Minimum Customers is a great starting place. He covers just about all the marketing and basic copywriting principles we prize.

For the adamant student of copywriting, his newsletter, Seductive Selling, is also worth the paltry $50 per month.

Never tried his more high ticket products, like the Lead Generation System.

All the best,

Angel

[sethczerepak]

I've been through and applied most of what's out there over the past ten years. You'll find the best of it all in this free course I created. You can always opt out if you think it sucks...but you get the two free ebooks anyway.

[pethanks]

There are lots there. What you did is a good start.

[Paul McQuillan]

Originally Posted by John Breese

Find a mean-ass, demanding ball breaker who lives for sales to work for.

That's what Dan Kennedy did. He ended up getting a job working
for a then unknown Gary Halbert....

he seems to have gleaned a thing or two

[patadeperro]

Have you read the Gary Halbert newsletter? I think it is a timeless education:

The Gary Halbert Letter

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by IM Viper

That's what Dan Kennedy did. He ended up getting a job working
for a then unknown Gary Halbert....

he seems to have gleaned a thing or two

I don't recall hearing Dan Kennedy ever say that.

Maybe you're thinking of John Carlton instead working for Halbert at one time?

[Paul McQuillan]

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

I don't recall hearing Dan Kennedy ever say that.

Maybe you're thinking of John Carlton instead working for Halbert at one time?

I have one of his cds (I've listened to over and over) and he talks
about working for Gary, in detail. It's a good story (told
in typical Kennedy fashion )

This story takes place before Dan entered marketing. They lived
in the same town (in case you did not know)

I'll find what the cd is titled is and post it on here. Problem is
I have a lot of Kennedy cds....

[John Breese]

Originally Posted by IM Viper

That's what Dan Kennedy did. He ended up getting a job working
for a then unknown Gary Halbert....

he seems to have gleaned a thing or two

I believe it. Have you heard the interview Halbert did with Michel Fortin? He doesn't let up for a second on his mentee, Caleb.

Still, it's all good-hearted in the end.

http://www.michelfortin.com/gary-hal...tin-interview/

[ARSuarez]

Originally Posted by IM Viper

I have one of his cds (I've listened to over and over) and he talks
about working for Gary, in detail. It's a good story (told
in typical Kennedy fashion )

This story takes place before Dan entered marketing. They lived
in the same town (in case you did not know)

I'll find what the cd is titled is and post it on here. Problem is
I have a lot of Kennedy cds....

I remember this. He really didn't "work" for Halbert, but one of his first copy assignments was a Beat the Control for the original Halberts. He ended up beating it, and they gave him something like $500.

Best,

Angel

[docsulo]

Originally Posted by Bob Conroy

Hey all,
I have taken John Carlton's Simple Writing System Course, and have recently begun another online course for copywriting.

What is the best beginner/intermediate course to take that will send you well prepared into the fray?

Why take more courses?

Take what you know and drill. That's what creates skill.

If you want to do more learning before you start I'll give you a complete system that will make you a great copywriter but before I do you should know a few things...

One of the difficulties in becoming a good copy-writer is that like salespeople (in-person or by phone) the measurement of success is in unit of sales vs. number of contacts; but unlike salespeople a copy-writer does not get immediate feedback on their results. So in order to get good at copywriting you must become FLUENT. Let me give you an analogy - when you go to a foreign country you may be able to learn some basics of the language before you go and then when you get there you get fluent through being immersed in the language in your daily everyday affairs (this is like tele-sales or face to face sales). However when you want to write a LETTER in a foreign language you must become FLUENT before you write the letter (this is like copywriting). And to become FLUENT in copy-writing and the creation of written appeals you either need to write a lot of copy and get immediate feedback (from the market and hopefully from copywriters that can point out where you can improve) OR you can take a few shortcuts that I'll mention in a moment...

Here's another distinction... salespeople often sell ONE item (or type of item i.e. - cars) their entire career and being good at selling one product does not always translate into being skilled at salesmanship in general. I've seen stock brokers that made a 1/4 Million a year when they were selling stocks - then try to sell vacations and fail miserably. I've seen car salespeople who sold thousands of cars successfully and then moved to advertising sales and barely scraped by. This isn't always the case but it often is. People become good at specific things and it often DOES NOT generalize as much as you'd think.

These facts say a few things to me:

1. To be a true sales pro that can move from product to product and create pitches yourself you must understand sales in general (what you learned in the SWS course)

2. you need to become fluent in creating appeals (see above)

3. It's usually a good choice to be a copywriter that specializes if you can because you can often use the same appeals over and over in your area of expertise.


So what are the shortcuts to becoming FLUENT? Is there a system to become a good copywriter WITHOUT practicing on unwitting clients? Can it be done without buying more courses?

I think so.

If you'd like to find out more and would like me to post the method here - let me know.

[gjabiz]

Originally Posted by docsulo

If you want to do more learning before you start I'll give you a complete system that will If you'd like to find out more and would like me to post the method here - let me know.

Hey Doc Sulo,

I'd like you to post the method. I'm a believer that even old dogs CAN learn new tricks.

So, toss this old dog a bone and post up.

gjabiz

[jennymcroland]

Originally Posted by Bob Conroy

Hey all,
I have taken John Carlton's Simple Writing System Course, and have recently begun another online course for copywriting.

What is the best beginner/intermediate course to take that will send you well prepared into the fray?

Thanks!

visit globalline.biz to see the best resources on earth

[John Breese]

One piece of media I recommend is the interview Ken McCarthy did with Gary Bencivenga.

Many copywriting view Gary as a God, but once they hear the interview and what he went through, you'll see just how accessible it is.

[Oxbloom]

Step 1: Read anything...ANYTHING...that will help you get the basic ideas. Any decent copywriting how-to would be fine. Any checklist given away free online would be fine. Certainly, Carlton's whole SWS is way beyond fine.

Step 2: Start writing.

Step 3: Digest feedback.

Step 4: Go to step 2.

[Ken_Caudill]

Find a viable, hungry market. Find or create a product that fills a need or want for that market. . Write copy to sell it. Drive traffic to that copy.

If your product sells, call yourself a copywriter, because you are.

You already know enough to do that right now.

That's not meant facetiously. That really is all you have to do.

I hope you make a ton of money.

[kalens99]

Start writing, submitting to article directories and monitor traffic and conversion rates. know SEO, social marketing and come up with ideas how to monitor results on your own blog. Write free guest posts or press releases for others. Then, after you get their feedback and build a portfolio you can start charging money for your work.

[Pisaka]

Hi Bob!
Personally I consider the "Emotional Hot Buttons" to be the best marketing e-book. Enjoy it, there is plenty of information to absorb!