How did you get started?

[Eko Ventures]

Hello fellow warriors,

I have a question that I would like to ask all you copywriters out there, regardless of your experience level. I would really like to know, and I'm sure some other prospecting copywriters would be interested to know as well, is how and where you got started with your copywriting?

Personally I don't have any inclination to start up a copywriting business or service, however I think it's a valuable skill I need to at least get a basic grasp of. I believe myself to be a fairly decent writer in general, I enjoy writing and have the ability to articulate myself adequately - though I find my ability to effectively write a sales page is quite poor.

The main problem I've noticed is that I always end up trying to obviously "sell" something, which tends to be a turn off for the readers. So to reiterate my question, where/how did you get started? Any direction or suggestions for those who would like to learn the fundamentals of copywriting?

Cheers!

[scrofford]

I am actually taking a course and reading all I can about copywriting. I haven't actually written a letter yet though. I am creating a squeeze page with some copy on it though for a niche that I'm in.

So maybe you should find a course and go through it. Be careful though...there are people out there offering courses that can't write copy themselves. Find out their reputations first.

[aandersen]

First, I'll say I'm a newb too

To get straight to the point, this is probably the best place to start:

Top Copywriting Books... Ever

Furthermore, I think Scientific Advertising would be a smart first read, for many reasons. It's pretty short and you could probably finish it in a day two.


Here's what I've been figuring out about this whole copywriting thing...


As I read more books, blog posts, newletters, forum posts, etc., and I as I continue to interact with coypwriters and listen to what these guys have to say, one thing has become evidently clear to me. While copywriting appears to be a skill in an of its self, it is more or less, the product of many many other skills combined.

I DO belive there are people naturally inclined toward this copywriting thing, and who just kickass at it. I also believe the ability to write good copy can be considered, for some, a side effect of mastering salesmanship, marketing, advertising, writing, persusion, psychology, and god knows what other laundry list of skills.

There are products teaching specifically how to write copy, but to really understand it--to be any good at it--I believe you need need to look past the step-by-step, formulaic, stuff. Even the quality products of this type aren't going to help you, if you don't understand the core principles of marketing.

Another thing, a lot of the good courses in this field aren't cheap at all.

Getting back to your question...

I would start with the classics and once you have an understand of how things work, you can decide 1) if you still consider this copywriting thing is even worth your time, and 2) what to learn next.

Again, I'm a newb, so take what I said with a grain of salt

[Scott Murdaugh]

I got started in sales.

Besides a 4 year stint in the Air Force, sales and copywriting is
all I've ever done.

Knowing how to sell "belly to belly" was, and still is, my biggest
advantage. I started writing lead gen letters for a mortgage
company in like 2004-05.

Then I came online and was making a living basically doing all
kinds of crazy stuff, affiliate marketing, flipping websites, ghost
writing when I could find the decent paying gigs.

And then I came across a guy who had developed some really cool
software, but he sucked at marketing it.

Long story short, we teamed up, made a bunch of money, eventually
sold out the company and went our separate ways.

There was probably a 4 month period where I was doing a sales
letter every other week or so, and I had absolutely zero knowledge
as to how in-depth copywriting really is.

I was lucky enough to have some good offers in good markets, and an
understanding of sales.

So the copy worked, but it wasn't great by any standards, and I'd
be embarrassed to look at any of it today.

After my partner and I split up (it was on good terms) I was kind
of kicking around ideas with him for what I was going to do next.

He said "dude, you know how to write sales copy, you've sold a ton
of **** for us, why don't you do that professionally"...

And at the time I was thinking people either wrote copy themselves
or outsourced it for $100...

I just kind of assumed writing sales copy was something just about
anyone could do, and had no idea about the huge demand out there for
copywriters who can deliver.

So I started checking out what some of the top copywriters where
charging. I was REALLY surprised at how much these guys were making.

I remember seeing a $500 copywriting WSO selling well and thought
that wasn't bad money for just starting out.

And then I became hooked.

I found Halbert, Kennedy, Hopkins, Schwartz, Sugarman, Carlton...
And way too many other teachers/influences to list.

And I think that's a big part of it. Becoming "hooked", I mean, I
was (and still am) addicted to learning and doing this stuff...

And that's a common trait I see with good copywriters, they're
always learning, studying markets and writing copy. It's not "work"
when you're that passionate about it.

And even at this stage in the game, where I'm "established" and have
somewhat of a reputation going for me, on any given day I'm more
likely to have a copywriting seminar or interview going in my ipod
than music.

Once I felt I was ready I posted a WSO for I think around $500, and
within like 2 days of that going live I was booked up for a month
(thinking it would be "easy" to knock out 2 sales letters a week)...

A big thing I had going into that WSO was proof that the copy I did
for our old products converted very well, so I had some credibility
coming into it.

I busted my ass on those $500 sales letters.

And they worked out. I started getting testimonials, started
getting referrals and it's kind of snowballed from there.

I do basically zero self-promotion.

I post occasionally in this forum (but self-promotion is really
just a side-effect of that).

I have a blog/email list that I sometimes get around to updating
regularly.

I do network with people when I find the time, but I don't ever
have to go out and really "hustle" for clients anymore.

These days all of my work is either past clients, referrals and
occasionally someone who stumbles across my website or a forum post
or an article or whatever and decides to get in touch.

My best advice?

Learn how to sell face to face.

Because those skills transfer incredibly well into print. And then
find mentors (many of mine are dead) who you enjoy learning from.

Read the books in the sticky above.

Maybe hire a coach/mentor. I've never had a formal coach, but I've
been lucky enough to run into some great copywriters who've taught
me a lot.

Get involved with a mastermind group (or a few). I have a few that
I'm a part of and they've been tremendously valuable to my career,
and still are today.

I still remembered when it "clicked" for me...

Stephen Dean, he's a member here (and a great copywriter), ran a little membership site
where you could basically just ask him questions.

I asked for feedback on something I wrote, and his feedback was
"You need to charge more"...

That gave me sort of the confidence/permission I needed to know I
could actually do this and be good at it.

One last thing to drive home the point about learning to sell in
person/on the phone...

My website, my blog and people who send me referrals...
None of that stuff sells me.

It pre-sells me. It gets my foot in the door. Testimonials, samples
and past results all help a TON, but they're just making my "real"
job a little bit easier...

Because it's always that hour on the phone/Skype that ends with the
client (who is most likely shopping around and talking to other
copywriters) saying "you're the guy for the job, where do I send
the money?"

So even though I'm writing copy on a daily basis, I still have to
rely on my sales abilities over the phone to ultimately win clients
over and pay my bills.

And once you've won a client over, it's just a matter of giving
them 100% and being able to deliver on what you promised.

When you have enough happy clients under your belt they'll hire you
again and start sending new business your way.

And things can really take off at that point.

Hope that helps.

Good luck!

-Scott

P.S. Good point in the previous post about it being a mixture of
skills.

It really is.

Understanding human nature, psychology,
markets, writing, sales and just being a curious person who enjoys
learning all come into play.

P.P.S. Pretty sure this is the longest post I've ever put up in this forum

[Kevin Rogers]

Great responses so far.

I'll bet You find, Yasha, as you learn more about copywriting, that you've been selling in one form or another your entire life.

We all sell everyday. The key is to know what you're really selling and why.

I spent my 20's as a stand-up comic selling not jokes, but common bond to strangers.

I worked as a bartender selling not booze, but companionship and escape to the lonely.

I worked as a hotel bellman selling not luggage service, but inside information on how to make the most of a guest's stay.

Thing is... I didn't fully realize those things until I looked back through my marketing goggles.

I now know 1000 ways I could have made more of all those situations. Just as I'll look back next year and see opportunities I'm missing right now. Great part about this gig... the education never ends.

I can tell from your post that you already know how to sell... the lessons you're looking for are about why you're selling. That's what all those great books and courses will help you discover.

Then it gets really fun.

All the best,

Kevin (feeling oddly zen today) Rogers

[Alex Cohen]

I would really like to know, and I'm sure some other prospecting copywriters would be interested to know as well, is how and where you got started with your copywriting?

I started by writing copy for my business.

First, it was a lead generation ad and an Adwords campaign to drive the traffic. Then, because my "system" worked so well, I wrote a sales letter and began selling it to other professionals in my niche.

Alex

[The Copy Nazi]

I started at 10 when I won the "Best Poster" Prize for a school fete.

I drew a close-up of a little kid yelling his lungs out - his head was tilted back and you could see his tonsils.

The copy said

"MUM - I wanna go to Mona Vale School Fete!"

saturady 9am to 9pm

(yes I had a typo on the "saturday")

All the other kids drew cars, planes, dogs - rubbish like that. My poster blew them out of the water. And other kids copied it for years after. That's when I knew I was on to something.

So I went home and told my old man I wanted to quit school and become an advertising copywriter. I had to wait another six years before scoring a gig with J. Walter Thompson (Advertising).

So that's how it started. Where will it end? I'll still be running headlines round my brain while they're getting ready to put me down.

(BTW that reminds me of something my 98 year old aunt said to me when I visited her in the "North Haven" Nursing Home. She said the mail often came with the address "North Heaven" :-)

[Eko Ventures]

Whoa, great responses so far indeed! Hopefully this thread will help others looking to learn copywriting as well, not just myself.

I think the first thing I'm going to do is pick up a couple of the books in the stickied thread as suggested .

[Sebastion]

Great response Scott. I too find myself more and more fascinated by the day.

[shikari]

I have absolutely zero knowledge

[signity2]

what should i say all you need is just above it will help you surely

[EliteIM]

I used to work as a professional Web Content writer but the focus in the company was more on writing keyword rich, SEO content rather than persuasive, killer Copy. But the more I learned about the power of copywriting, the more I began to like it.
Now that I have switched my profession to full time Internet Marketing, I always make sure to give persuasive Copy writing preference over SEO focussed, keyword rich web content writing anyday.

[tobyR]

I know what you mean about 'selling'. For me its a case a having a topic and therefore a focus then just writing I free write not worrying about length etc then go back and edit down or split into 2 articles if thats what Im doing - Having done a bit now it does get easier as you do more.