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Where do I start?

by rammonster
25 replies
I know i been making quite a few threads around here for a while, but i seriously need your opinion on this...So, Kindly bear with me.:p

Here is the situation:

So, I've been studying the whole science/art of writing copy for a few months now. There is so much that goes into it that I begin to think I know everything there is to copywriting...Only to discover there's more to it. It takes a solid week to absorb everything I read, write and listen to... Since some of you guy's pointed out that my grammar and punctuation was "atrocious" I actually called up my high school english teacher and got her to come over and help me brush up my writing. (Yea she's HOT as hell, sadly she's engaged)

Anyways, I have been working my @$$ off and honestly I am simply tired of writing "mock" copies and wasting hours...Whereas I could actually be spending the same amount of time writing a copy for my next client. I really feel like the longer I wait, the harder it's going to get.

Here Is What I Think I Should Do:

I believe that the only way I can be confident about my copywriting skills is by actually getting myself out there and work for actual clients. I know that I can write a good copy and I know my first one wont be the "greatest" but I know that it will SELL. I can later provide the client with more improvements that she/he can make to the copy and work with them to make the copy stronger and convert better.

So how do I get a client even if i don't have a portfolio yet??:confused:

Should I offer my services for free/cheap and get a few testimonials first or should I just put myself out there in hopes that someone picks me up for their next project and pays me the kinda fee many good copywriters get paid? What would you do?

I know what my time is worth - It will easily take me 5 days to a week to write a good copy. From interviewing the product owner, going through the product and finding out it's best features, coming up with a USP, Getting my hook, learning about my potential prospects and then writing the actual copy and then refurbishing it. Then following up with some headlines and some other elements to split test with and then making tweaks to enhance the copy's performance. Its insanely hard work and I don't wanna cut any corners.

Your advise/opinions are needed.

Thank you guys.

Cheers,
Kunal
#start
  • Profile picture of the author Johnemman
    Hi Kunal,

    If I were in your situation, I would be writing samples in the wealth, health and relationship niches. I understand you wanting to get out there and make some money, but you need to be prepared. The samples you write will be the beginnings of your portfolio.

    You need to get yourself a website, I have no hesitation in telling you to grab a copy of "Ghostwriting Cash" a brilliant course by Tiffany Dow and Craig Desorcy, it will give you all the information you need to be making money with your writing skills in no time. I am not an affiliate of this product

    I myself have used this resource and found it extremely helpful, if you want to have a look at my site, to see what I'm talking about, please follow the link in my signature.

    You can always extend your portfolio into different niches as different opportunities arise.

    Good luck in whatever you decide.

    John
    Signature
    Direct Response Copywriter - Health | Fitness | Financial | Content Marketing

    Helping you transform your complex messages into user-friendly compelling text
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    • Profile picture of the author rammonster
      Originally Posted by Johnemman View Post

      Hi Kunal,
      I understand you wanting to get out there and make some money, but you need to be prepared.
      Money is secondary to me ... I make more than enough offline and I only have to work for about 6 days a month and I get to party at work. Copywriting is something I am just passionate about and I find it insanely interesting. That is the main reason why I even started learning it.

      But yea, I definitely will prepare some writing samples and maybe even write an ebook on my favorite subject. I think it's a great idea and will definitely give my clients some confidence and see if my kind of writing suits their needs.

      Thank you.

      Cheers,
      kunal
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Hi Kunal,

        Find somebody who is advertising in your local papers or magazines.

        See the crappy ones that you know you can easily improve on.

        Get a list of them and their emails.

        Next you send an email titled; sauna wanted [always use lower case and put in whatever they are selling]

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Body: Hello,

        I've seen your advertising in the local paper recently, and it's sparked off a huge idea.

        I'd like to quickly run it past you for your opinion.

        You can expect my call soon, while this is hot.

        Regards,
        name
        company name
        Ph
        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        It works.

        I cold called a guy who manages investors funds with that same basic pitch...used his website as the lead in.

        He was the first time I used it with, [just this week] and is now a paying client.

        You are the idea man on improving his bottom line.

        After talking to your prospect about ways to improve his advertising,
        ask him where he would like to go from here.

        If he wants to use your help, go away and come up with a written proposal.

        Keep sending out those emails and keep following up by phone.

        That's your no cost lead generation method for bringing in clients.

        Just work the system.

        It's rare to see a client getting system on this forum.

        Make the most of it.

        Best,
        Ewen
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  • Profile picture of the author rammonster
    I tried looking at such ads. Someone had given the same suggestion in a thread.

    Where I live... People just aren't that into it. I tried a local gym and a real estate company they said they have people managing their advertising. Maybe it works well in the US but offline doesn't work here.

    Thanks for the suggestion though.

    Cheers,
    kunal
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Kunal, this is working here in New Zealand where people don't like doing things the way
      they do in the USA.

      Oh well, looks like your short experience has stopped you cold from speaking to other business types and using a different approach to them.

      On a forum which has 7,00 paid members, from around the world, there is a 4 line script that goes on postcards.

      It is common to get 50% of receivers to phone back.

      That script I gave isn't verbatim, however it is the gist of that proven winner.

      So how many business owners have you spoken to before you gave up?

      Best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author rammonster
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        So how many business owners have you spoken to before you gave up?
        The mentality of the businesses here is totally different. They believe in "brand recognition" and don't really care if the ads bring them business.

        I've tried talking to several businesses from Gyms, insurance companies, restaurants and so on... They just aren't into it.

        Glad it works for you...

        Cheers,
        kunal
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
          Originally Posted by rammonster View Post

          The mentality of the businesses here is totally different. They believe in "brand recognition" and don't really care if the ads bring them business.

          I've tried talking to several businesses from Gyms, insurance companies, restaurants and so on... They just aren't into it.

          Glad it works for you...

          Cheers,
          kunal
          Businesses want to make money. There's nothing wrong with them. There's something wrong with you and your pitch.

          First step to being a great copywriter is taking responsibility for your failures. If you just keep blaming something else you'll never learn to be a great writer.

          And also... if one more person says "write a good copy" I think I may very well hang myself with my mouse.

          -Daniel
          Signature

          Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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          • Profile picture of the author rammonster
            Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

            Businesses want to make money. There's nothing wrong with them. There's something wrong with you and your pitch.

            First step to being a great copywriter is taking responsibility for your failures. If you just keep blaming something else you'll never learn to be a great writer.

            And also... if one more person says "write a good copy" I think I may very well hang myself with my mouse.

            -Daniel
            Hi,

            I live in a VERY remote town in my area. There are less businesses and more "shops" here. The businesses I do find don't seem to be interested and if they are, they don't wanna pay me anything upfront and a million other porblems...I could go on and on about this. But the fact is, They're just not into it.

            There is a very good reason why there aren't many direct response ad agencies in my country. :rolleyes:

            I even talked to a popular entertainment center a few days ago about getting them a simple facebook page. They said they wouldn't be interested and 2 days later... They simply did it themselves! Offlineing doesn't work here. People are either simply not interested or they simply don't wanna pay too much. If it were possible, I would already be making a killing. The only client I EVER landed was way back in 2006 who paid me $100 to build him a 8 page HTML site and rank it high in the SERPS. He pulled it down 4 months later, claiming it wasn't bringing him any business.

            Anyways, my pitch was good enough. I was in telemarketing for about a year talking to people In New-Zealand and Australia selling them holiday packages. They absolutely HATE telemarketing calls and they are subjected to a LOT(about 20) of telemarketing calls everyday. I still managed to land 2-5 sales everyday. So I know my tish when it comes to face to face selling/negotiating.

            Sometimes they're simply not into it man. If it was my fault...I wouldn't mind accepting it. But its simple not the case here. I simply have a dead crowd, they simply don't "believe" in the internet or good advertising and its a weakness I plan on exploiting very soon. :p

            Cheers,
            Kunal
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    This is what I did. I wrote an ebook on self hypnosis. It gave general informantion. I was too dumb to know that content writers didn't write sales copy so I wrote the copy for the book. I'd worked for a couple years selling from the poduim so I knew many of the emotional triggers people respond to and managed to get them into the copy. I sold not a single book.

    Then someone told me that the book was too general and that people need to deal with specific issues and want info that will help them do that. So I changed the book around and made it a guide to help people stop smoking. I rewrote the sales page and the thing started converting very well right away. This was quite a while back before the Web was supersaturated with offers.

    The point? Create a product and write the copy for it. That adds a couple of items to your portfolio, resume, etc. But if you do a good job and the thing actually sells, then you can go out there and seek out clients as a proven writer. This is pretty much what I did. It was more by accident than design, but hell, who cares, it worked. Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author rammonster
      Hey,

      I am actually in the midst of finishing my first ebook in the IM niche. Amazon affiliate marketing to be specific. I was thinking about selling it simply as a WSO but now I think I'll make it a full fledged course with videos and advanced training and stuff. I think it'll be a good start. But finishing it may take a while. Lets see, I'm still keeping my options open.

      Thanks man...

      Cheers,
      kunal

      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      This is what I did. I wrote an ebook on self hypnosis. It gave general informantion. I was too dumb to know that content writers didn't write sales copy so I wrote the copy for the book. I'd worked for a couple years selling from the poduim so I knew many of the emotional triggers people respond to and managed to get them into the copy. I sold not a single book.

      Then someone told me that the book was too general and that people need to deal with specific issues and want info that will help them do that. So I changed the book around and made it a guide to help people stop smoking. I rewrote the sales page and the thing started converting very well right away. This was quite a while back before the Web was supersaturated with offers.

      The point? Create a product and write the copy for it. That adds a couple of items to your portfolio, resume, etc. But if you do a good job and the thing actually sells, then you can go out there and seek out clients as a proven writer. This is pretty much what I did. It was more by accident than design, but hell, who cares, it worked. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Mate, do us all a favour and just give up. You can't write to save your life. And your attitude is WRONG. You've had some good advice here from people who know what they're talking about...and yet there you are whining and giving us all the reasons why it won't work. The problem is YOU. Start from there. Or start from proofreading EVERYTHING you write. If you can't do that - bugger off back to telemarketing - those annoying *******s that somehow get my unlisted number and ring me on almost a daily basis.

    As Daniel says - go "write a good copy" - then hang yourself with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author rammonster
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      Mate, do us all a favour and just give up. You can't write to save your life. And your attitude is WRONG. You've had some good advice here from people who know what they're talking about...and yet there you are whining and giving us all the reasons why it won't work. The problem is YOU. Start from there. Or start from proofreading EVERYTHING you write. If you can't do that - bugger off back to telemarketing - those annoying *******s that somehow get my unlisted number and ring me on almost a daily basis.

      As Daniel says - go "write a good copy" - then hang yourself with it.
      I'm not saying that their advice is wrong, I was just stating that I live in a small town and people aren't interested in what I have to offer.

      And I know you hate telemarketers, It's one of the reasons I left my job. I am not complaining. Please understand that people here DON'T need my services. It's just as simple as that.

      I'm sorry if I came off as offensive, I was only stating the situation here, NOT questioning their advice. I was only asking for help dude, Don't take it the wrong way.

      Kunal
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  • Profile picture of the author rammonster
    Edit: doesn't matter
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      Well if you have an interest in gardening and decide to throw your hat in and become a full time landscape gardener but live in a small village where no one has a garden then you should move.

      Because that is what you are saying is it not?

      Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author rammonster
        Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

        Well if you have an interest in gardening and decide to throw your hat in and become a full time landscape gardener but live in a small village where no one has a garden then you should move.

        Because that is what you are saying is it not?

        Dan
        What i am trying to say is that there is no one here who wants my services. I live miles outside the city and there are not many businesses here. Only giant factories and farmers... There is a town nearby but businesses there don't really require my services. I tried man. That's all I'm gonna say.

        And that's why I am trying to make my services accessible online. I wasn't more specific in the OP and now that has created a misunderstanding here.

        Thank you for your suggestion. I totally get what you're trying to say here. Its just much more complicated than that.

        Kunal
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        • Profile picture of the author Rigmonkey
          Originally Posted by rammonster View Post

          What i am trying to say is that there is no one here who wants my services. I live miles outside the city and there are not many businesses here. Only giant factories and farmers... There is a town nearby but businesses there don't really require my services. I tried man. That's all I'm gonna say.

          And that's why I am trying to make my services accessible online. I wasn't more specific in the OP and now that has created a misunderstanding here.

          Thank you for your suggestion. I totally get what you're trying to say here. Its just much more complicated than that.

          Kunal
          ANY business, irrespective of size, needs to sell itself. Somewhere along the line, somebody will be writing promotional material. It doesn't whether you are McDonalds or Greasy Joe's Cafe. You have to sell your 'product' and you have to sell it effectively otherwise nobody will buy it. Indeed, there's more chance that McDonalds would use a copywriter than poor old Joe! There's no need to be scared of giant factories or anything else IF you have the skills to deal with them.

          Farmers? Why can't you sell to farmers? Inside 30 seconds, I found a website that is packed with priceless information about farming which is ideal for research. I don't think it's a question of them not needing you. It's more a question of you spending no time investigating your potential market so in turn, you have nothing to offer them. That's not meant to be nasty. I bet I'm right though.

          Seriously, but why copywriting? If it's because copywriters demands better money, you need to think again. I've been writing professionally for several years and I'm still perfecting articles. I read up on copywriting regularly so I have some basic information to use when I'm ready to try my hand at things. However, I'm definitely not ready for that challenge yet. There are others that can do it much better than I can so I prefer to leave it to the experts and learn gradually. Chances are I can write better articles and content than they can. It's simply a question of having 'aces in their places'.
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          • Profile picture of the author rammonster
            Originally Posted by Rigmonkey View Post

            ANY business, irrespective of size, needs to sell itself. Somewhere along the line, somebody will be writing promotional material. It doesn't whether you are McDonalds or Greasy Joe's Cafe. You have to sell your 'product' and you have to sell it effectively otherwise nobody will buy it. Indeed, there's more chance that McDonalds would use a copywriter than poor old Joe! There's no need to be scared of giant factories or anything else IF you have the skills to deal with them.

            Farmers? Why can't you sell to farmers? Inside 30 seconds, I found a website that is packed with priceless information about farming which is ideal for research. I don't think it's a question of them not needing you. It's more a question of you spending no time investigating your potential market so in turn, you have nothing to offer them. That's not meant to be nasty. I bet I'm right though.

            Seriously, but why copywriting? If it's because copywriters demands better money, you need to think again. I've been writing professionally for several years and I'm still perfecting articles. I read up on copywriting regularly so I have some basic information to use when I'm ready to try my hand at things. However, I'm definitely not ready for that challenge yet. There are others that can do it much better than I can so I prefer to leave it to the experts and learn gradually. Chances are I can write better articles and content than they can. It's simply a question of having 'aces in their places'.
            The farmers here speak/understand no other language other than tamil, Which honestly, I don't understand well. Many don't earn much and I've seen many even commit suicide as they now cant afford to pay their debts off to the bank. My grandpa was a part of their council, but the good ole days are now gone.

            I am only 18 now, I have a LOT of time to sit around and perfect my copywriting skills. I am not in a hurry but I thought it would be good to get out there at get my feet wet but I guess sitting around and practicing seems like a more viable option right now.

            I am learning gradually, Hopefully you'll see one of my copies in the future:p

            I am saving up some money for Gary Becivenga's seminar DVD's. They say the copy is limited to 2000 people only and costs 5k. But I don't wanna enter the battlefield unarmed....lol. Like you said "It's simply a question of having 'aces in their places'"

            I'll take that to heart and work harder. Thanks man.

            Edit: And you asked me why copywriting right?

            There is no specific reason, I stumbled into john carlton's marketing rebel rant blog where he had a post titled "thieving *******s" and it talked about how people stole his ads word by word and ran them in other regions/countries shamelessly and then he talked about how he's going to teach them how to use other copy's to make yours better and talked about his program "license to steal" I signed up for his newsletter and I found the whole thing pretty interesting and a few months later...Here I am.

            Cheers,
            kunal
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            • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
              Are you in Sri Lanka or India or thereabouts?

              Dan
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              • Profile picture of the author rammonster
                Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

                Are you in Sri Lanka or India or thereabouts?

                Dan
                YES! Its a very popular tropical getaway! I'm in Maldives right now although my house is located in chennai. I like living out here. But with the tsunami warnings and everything I am considering moving back home.
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                • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                  Okay. Makes sense.

                  I understood what you were trying to express with regards to local businesses in remote villages not requiring your service. You are actually correct.

                  However in Chennai there are probably a lot of businesses who export or would like to export to Europe or US.

                  Could you offer to help them, not with the end customers, but distribution partners who sell to the end customer?

                  These businesses you would approach would be everything from foodstuffs to hotels.

                  For example, I just saw a business called Chennai Silks. Indian people in the UK obviously know where to go for these things but you need to think of repackaging the same product so that it is something else.

                  So now you think of it as a luxury, hand spun, hand dyed, unique bed covering and now you just need to find retailers in the UK at the top end who need to be contacted in a professional way. One which a small local producer would never think of doing let alone know how to.

                  You get my point don't you?

                  Dan
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                  • Profile picture of the author rammonster
                    Yep, but I'm in Maldives right now, Got a high paying gig here. I cant leave. But when I get back in chennai, I'll get to it. I've got a LOT of stuff to work on back in the big city. But at the moment, I've gotta work with what I have.

                    My family already runs 8 restaurants all across the U.K The whole silk idea aint that bad, I'll definitely talk to a few producers when I visit my family after summer maybe.

                    But people kept talking about how its all my fault. I hope this clears things up a bit

                    Thank you

                    Cheers,
                    kunal

                    Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

                    Okay. Makes sense.

                    I understood what you were trying to express with regards to local businesses in remote villages not requiring your service. You are actually correct.

                    However in Chennai there are probably a lot of businesses who export or would like to export to Europe or US.

                    Could you offer to help them, not with the end customers, but distribution partners who sell to the end customer?

                    These businesses you would approach would be everything from foodstuffs to hotels.

                    For example, I just saw a business called Chennai Silks. Indian people in the UK obviously know where to go for these things but you need to think of repackaging the same product so that it is something else.

                    So now you think of it as a luxury, hand spun, hand dyed, unique bed covering and now you just need to find retailers in the UK at the top end who need to be contacted in a professional way. One which a small local producer would never think of doing let alone know how to.

                    You get my point don't you?

                    Dan
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                    • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
                      I'm reading a lot about how you're chained to your geographical area copywriting and consulting wise. But are you really?

                      My nearest client lives a full seven-hour drive away.

                      Use the Internets to their full potential and it matters not where you live. Long as you have a web connection you have a business.

                      I'm thinking about moving from a big city in the US back to a small, literally sleep-inducing British village.

                      But I'm going to take my business with me, and I only see it growing.

                      Don't let geography constrain your thinking.

                      --- Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    You already have your hook staring you in the face. As my learned colleague above says - it doesn't matter where you live. It's the internets baby. So go target the biggest market out there - the U.S. Start with a "Missive from the Maldives". Buy a mailing list of scuba-divers or something. Or dive-shop owners. Or travel agents.

    Read some of Halbert's stuff or just get into it. Talk one on one to them. Go sell them. By saying "I'm Kunal. I live and work from my boat. Right now I'm anchored off a tiny tropical island in The Maldives. "Where the hell is The Maldives?" I hear you say. If you have a globe. Locate India. Run your finger down South West to The Indian Ocean. See us? between Sri Lanka and India. Yeah - it's tiny. Best-kept secret and all that. The Maldives are famous for lobster and copywriters. Yeah...I'm kidding. But look....

    And here's a FREE 6-part series from Clayton Makepeace - A Conversation With the Legendary Copywriter GARY BENCIVENGA Part 1 of 6 | MakepeaceTotalPackage.com

    à bientôt
    M
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    • Profile picture of the author theplugindude
      Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi View Post

      You already have your hook staring you in the face. As my learned colleague above says - it doesn't matter where you live. It's the internets baby. So go target the biggest market out there - the U.S. Start with a "Missive from the Maldives". Buy a mailing list of scuba-divers or something. Or dive-shop owners. Or travel agents.

      Read some of Halbert's stuff or just get into it. Talk one on one to them. Go sell them. By saying "I'm Kunal. I live and work from my boat. Right now I'm anchored off a tiny tropical island in The Maldives. "Where the hell is The Maldives?" I hear you say. If you have a globe. Locate India. Run your finger down South West to The Indian Ocean. See us? between Sri Lanka and India. Yeah - it's tiny. Best-kept secret and all that. The Maldives are famous for lobster and copywriters. Yeah...I'm kidding. But look....

      And here's a FREE 6-part series from Clayton Makepeace - A Conversation With the Legendary Copywriter GARY BENCIVENGA Part 1 of 6 | MakepeaceTotalPackage.com

      à bientôt
      M

      Wow..that is what I call CLASSY!
      Simply amazing sir..I think you have inborn talent..
      When did you start to learn this art?
      I really loved it!
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      • Profile picture of the author IdrisSG
        The mentality of the businesses here is totally different. They believe in "brand recognition" and don't really care if the ads bring them business.
        That's pretty much the mentality of all the businesses you'll run into, I was shocked by this fact when it hit me that most business owners survive on ONE MARKETING TACTIC - - referrals, and then some basic online marketing.

        Also - I believe I've read you said:

        (1) Copywriting is a passion.

        With that being the case, why not WRITE FOR YOURSELF instead of writing for clients...

        You can have different products in different niches if you want variety.

        Also - if you desperately want to write for others but have no samples...

        Go write for "free"...

        Tell the business owners that you'll write for them an ad but you won't charge upfront unless they decide, for example to use your ad for next month's insertion, then you charge them in month #2.

        I believe Dan Lok used a similar version of this strategy when he was getting started.
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