How Much To Pay a Copywriter?

[activetrader]

I have a few projects I am trying to finish and I was looking to outsource writing the sales copy. I can write it, I have written sales copy for several products of mine that have been reasonably successful but it takes me two to three weeks per sales copy. I just want to get it done and over with so that I can start selling. If I were to hire a copywriter how much (ball park) would I have to pay? I have no idea what the ongoing prices are and I don't want to get a copy I could have written better myself. If you have suggestions about what is a reasonable price to pay for a quality copy please share. Thanks in advance!

[briancassingena]

How much to pay for quality? That's a hell of a question. I know the best copywriters are getting $15,000 and up for a sales letter. You can get a very good writer for between $5,000 to $15,000 per letter. And then there are the guys who are just as good but not charging what they are worth, they charge between the $2,000 and $5,000. (this is where if fit in...for now) And you can of course get a letter written on elance or rentacoder for a couple of hundred bucks. But in most cases, any sales you make from such a letter will be purely coincidental.

There is a saying which goes: Pay Once Cry Once. Once you have a top shelf letter written, you can use i over and over again to make sales. You should easily be able to make back your investment and then keep on making sales for the life of the product.

You get what you pay for.

[Matt James]

How much can you afford?

I mean... if you have 60k spare go and speak to Clayton Makepeace.

Generally speaking the more you pay the better the results. Your payment should be seen as an investment, as a wise business decision.

That's not to say you should throw your money at any copywriter of course. Always check for testimonials and even speak to their previous clients to get an idea of the results you can expect.

[Dean Dhuli]

How much can you pay is one thing...

How much are you actually willing to pay is another.

In my experience, there are two problems with people who
"write their own copy but are hiring a copywriter now because
they don't have the time to do it themselves".

a) They always look to pay as less as possible since they
feel the fees paid to a copywriter is an "extra" expenditure
because they could have written the copy themselves.

Or they think they can get SOME copy and make it better
themselves.

b) They keep poking a finger in the copywriter's work and
are almost certain to modify... and in most cases destroy...
the final copy that they get.


The important thing when you hire copywriters is to trust
them to do their job correctly.

Just because you know how to write copy doesn't give
you the license to annoy them and find nonexistent faults
in what they write.

So if you're really interested in hiring a "quality" copywriter,
be ready to pay him a decent fee and let him do his job.

- Dean.

[AlanCarr]

"I just want to get it done and over with so that I can start selling"

Well any serious copywriter is going to take the same two or three weeks as you would yourself.

If you already have a stack of research on your prospects, their hot buttons, all that stuff, you'd save your CW a heap of time. Would still be about a week though, or more. You can't rush this stuff.

So do you mean you just don't want the headache or you want it quick? If you want it quick and cheap it's going to be garbage - and I'm sure you know that.

Quick and good is going to be even more expensive than good.

If we presume you just want someone else to do the work because you have multiple projects and feel overwhelmed by it all, you'll find there were some peeps offering membership deals for salesletters? I recall hearing of one of them imploding but there may still be such options around.

To answer your question directly, you can get reasonable copywriting from around $200 to $2000, with the difference often nothing more than the confidence of the copywriter (and a bigger portfolio). Above that it jumps to the $5000 mark but few are so good as to demand (ask perhaps but not demand) more than that.

Try offering $500 and see what you think of the quality of respondees. You'll get some that barely speak English but among them you may find a gem just waiting to be given the opportunity.

I'd chase you myself but I have two on the boil, a third one coming, plus some vague enquiries so I'm not overly hungry right now. There's plenty that are though; give the poor blighters a chance why doncha?



B.

[Hugh Thyer]

I recommend you try out those who are charging less than they're worth at around the $2000 mark. Those people will get you sales, and if your product takes off, then re-invest your profit for some of the top writers at around the $15k mark. If it flops then at least you wont have blown your money.

Its a good chance to test out your offering before sinking big bucks into it.

Hugh

[Raydal]

Find writers who charge less than they are worth??

Is this the mentality of a business person? Take advantage of people?

Shouldn't a business owner want to see her copywriter be just as
successful as them?

Would you want to be paid less than you are worth?

"Do unto others as you'll have them do unto you."

-Ray Edwards

[Amfire]

Hi,

You can check with Russ Reynolds, a fellow warrior. He is a good copy writer, reasonably priced. However he also takes minimum 10 days to write.

hope it helps

Originally Posted by activetrader

I have a few projects I am trying to finish and I was looking to outsource writing the sales copy. I can write it, I have written sales copy for several products of mine that have been reasonably successful but it takes me two to three weeks per sales copy. I just want to get it done and over with so that I can start selling. If I were to hire a copywriter how much (ball park) would I have to pay? I have no idea what the ongoing prices are and I don't want to get a copy I could have written better myself. If you have suggestions about what is a reasonable price to pay for a quality copy please share. Thanks in advance!

[Warrior Globetrotter]

Honestly, who has 15k to shelf over to a copywriter for one sales page?

I would say give someone with a lot of experience a chance over there on elance and pay around $100-400 ...then revise and TEST different headlines....

different copy...etc!

your salesletter is NOT A ONE TIME thing...it should be constantly evolving and i am sorry, but no copy writer will get it absolutely right the first try without testing...have them write a first draft...then you do the testing and revising from there and see how your conversions go...

[MontelloMarketing]

Activetrader,

A few warriors here had it almost completely right.

1. How much can you afford? Matt's point is very important. But it's not complete...
2. Brian was right to ask how much do you pay for quality... but still not complete...
3. Dean took it deeper and had good points... as did BigSofty... and Raydal...

I think one important thing to ask however is this...

What's the pricepoint of the product? And if it sells well, how much do you stand to profit?

There's no reason to hire a $15K writer for a $7 ebook you're expecting to sell 2,000 copies of.

The fact that you never have hired a cw before makes me think we're talking about either low prices or low volume sales.

One thing you don't want to do is find someone wildly underpriced. I personally have students who I consider underpriced. Hiring them I don't see as an affront...

But usually when I hear someone say "you need someone underpriced" what they really mean is "I'm really good but willing to work cheap. Use me!" Not saying Hugh's doing this but...

really you don't want to find one of the most important parts of your business in the discount bin.

Okay... a little too much talking this morning with my coffee so I'll just get to my advice...

Suck it up and write it yourself.

You say you've had some success...
You know your product...
You know your market...
And you know what you can deliver in 3 weeks...

Just do that.

[Hugh Thyer]

Sorry Ray, but you've missed my point.

Bigsofty alluded to there being a lot of writers at the $2,000 mark who should be charging more. These are writers who are getting consistent results and are getting ready to move up into a new price bracket.

Often they're writers who want the practice to move their skills up another notch, and want more testimonials and referrals.

These writers represent excellent value for money because they're likely to get pretty good results. For someone in ActiveTrader's position they are probably the best writers to go after, and if the project takes off, then evaluate whether a top-shelf writer should be hired to re-write the copy.

Hugh

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by Dean Dhuli

Just because you know how to write copy doesn't give
you the license to annoy them

Yes, the worst thing is when you poke sticks into our cages while we're working.

[Peter Ramos]

Im am also looking to outsource a sales copy (which is a major project for me)
Do any of you have any names on designers you know that create converting
pages with nice graphics?

[Janus]

Ah, Price Points, bringing reality into play.

This could be really interesting and informative if Activetrader would be kind enough to post some numbers (real or imaginary) for the group to discuss.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer

Sorry Ray, but you've missed my point.

Bigsofty alluded to there being a lot of writers at the $2,000 mark who should be charging more. These are writers who are getting consistent results and are getting ready to move up into a new price bracket.

Hugh

Then contact those copywriters and tell them to charge more, not
encourage clients to pay them less.

-Ray Edwards

[honestbizpro]

Hi ActiveTrader,

Great copy is priceless.

But if you start out with a Great Product or Service,

had average copy but Testimonials from some people I really respect

I may give you the sale every time.

[TheCren]

Originally Posted by Raydal

Find writers who charge less than they are worth??

Is this the mentality of a business person? Take advantage of people?

Shouldn't a business owner want to see her copywriter be just as
successful as them?

Would you want to be paid less than you are worth?

"Do unto others as you'll have them do unto you."

-Ray Edwards

You can't be for real! This is business. It's all about obtaining the best deal possible. It's not like we're saying go out and extort some poor peon, but find someone willing to do a quality job for an inexpensive amount! That's how Warren Buffett makes fortunes - he's known as a bargain hunter. That's also how Microsoft was made - Paul Allen was able to purchase DOS for a very inexpensive price (for what it was worth) and the company capitalized on it. It's not that we don't want other people to be successful, but just because something is worth $X to us doesn't mean we want to pay $X if the same thing is available for $X/2.

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by Dean Dhuli

How much can you pay is one thing...

How much are you actually willing to pay is another.

In my experience, there are two problems with people who
"write their own copy but are hiring a copywriter now because
they don't have the time to do it themselves".

a) They always look to pay as less as possible since they
feel the fees paid to a copywriter is an "extra" expenditure
because they could have written the copy themselves.

Or they think they can get SOME copy and make it better
themselves.

b) They keep poking a finger in the copywriter's work and
are almost certain to modify... and in most cases destroy...
the final copy that they get.


The important thing when you hire copywriters is to trust
them to do their job correctly.

Just because you know how to write copy doesn't give
you the license to annoy them and find nonexistent faults
in what they write.

So if you're really interested in hiring a "quality" copywriter,
be ready to pay him a decent fee and let him do his job.

- Dean.

The entire WSO section we all love is built around getting a better deal.

"Non existent faults?" You are fired. Just kidding.

Originally Posted by KenStrong

Yes, the worst thing is when you poke sticks into our cages while we're working.

Definitetly will keep this in mind. But communication is key.

[Mr. Subtle]

Originally Posted by Raydal

Then contact those copywriters and tell them to charge more, not
encourage clients to pay them less.

Is that what Jesus would say?

Is that what Jesus would tell you to do?

I think not.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle

Is that what Jesus would say?

Is that what Jesus would tell you to do?

I think not.

Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
-Mark 10:28-30

-Ray Edwards

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

The entire WSO section we all love is built around getting a better deal.

"Non existent faults?" You are fired. Just kidding.






Definitetly will keep this in mind. But communication is key.

You can hire a copywriter who offer two out of the following three features but not all of them. You can get...

* The best quality sales copy
* The cheapest price
* The best customer service

No one in any industry would ever be the best, cheapest, and most customer attentive. If they were, they would be a complete fool.

While communication is important, smart clients quickly realize it's better to let their copywriter focus on delivering top-quality work and not on being easily accessible. Remember, a copywriter needs to keep a positive reputation for their professionalism and the quality of their copy if they are going to continue to get client projects. If they don't, then they don't last long as a copywriter for hire before people learn to avoid them.

Hire your copywriter, give them the information they ask for, and then stay out of their way so they can work at peak efficiency.

As for what to pay... that's dictated by your budget and personal comfort level. I'd worry as much about finding a copywriter who is familiar with your niche and type of product being sold.

Don't be surprised if the very good or great copywriters you talk to are booked for months in advance. If you want to work with them, then you aren't going to get your project started and finished in a week or two.

Good luck,

Mike

[MontelloMarketing]

There's an old saying...

You can have it fast...
You can have it cheap...
You can have it right...

Now pick one.

[Thomas Belknap]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

There's an old saying...

You can have it fast...
You can have it cheap...
You can have it right...

Now pick one.

I thought that saying was about women.

[activetrader]

Originally Posted by Janus

Ah, Price Points, bringing reality into play.

This could be really interesting and informative if Activetrader would be kind enough to post some numbers (real or imaginary) for the group to discuss.

I don't know what the numbers are. That's why I asked in the first place. I had no numbers in mind when I asked. Thanks to all who responded I am getting some ideas

[Janus]

Activetrader, or anyone else if they care to throw out an example.

Sorry I wasn't specific. As to numbers I meant the amount of expected views, conversion rate and the selling price.

A simple breakeven formula says - additional fixed costs divided by the selling price is the additional sales units required to cover any expense. Therefore it matters significantly whether your selling price is $100 or $10. At $100 you need an additional 50 sales units to justify 5,000 in expense while a $10 selling price requires 500 more units to be sold.

So the bottom line is what amount of risk does a person want to take. What are the reasonable benefits from taking that risk? If you can come close to cost justifying on the numbers then it becomes a reasonable risk to undertake. What do you think a copy writer could do for you?

[Kyle Tully]

Just give me all your money and I will make all your dreams come true.

[Kenneth L]

Originally Posted by Raydal

Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
-Mark 10:28-30

-Ray Edwards

What's this got to do with Copywriting?

No offence or anything but it just seems out of place in a Copywriting Forum...

Kenneth

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Kenneth Rearden

What's this got to do with Copywriting?

No offence or anything but it just seems out of place in a Copywriting Forum...

Kenneth

Because it's a quote from the Bible? I answered a question addressed to
me and you question the answer and not the question. Do you have
a hangup with the most read and most popular book in the world and
call yourself a writer?

The passage speaks about conversion rates and that's what it has to
do here.

Every classic book on copywriting quotes from the Bible, but again
maybe you haven't read them.

-Ray Edwards

[1 Marketing]

The question or issue was How much to pay a Copywriter but what I am seeing here is the most diverted opinions. Let's come to the point.

Pay handsome earn handsome. There are so many copywriters who would agree to a percentage of share in earning. If you feel you can earn too much then I am sure you can pay too much.

[comusher]

Just remember you will get what you pay for. Better copy will cost more and you will need to decide what you can afford.
I would just take serveral bids to do the job and take the offer that meets your needs the best.

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by Raydal

Because it's a quote from the Bible? I answered a question addressed to
me and you question the answer and not the question. Do you have
a hangup with the most read and most popular book in the world and
call yourself a writer?

The passage speaks about conversion rates and that's what it has to
do here.

Every classic book on copywriting quotes from the Bible, but again
maybe you haven't read them.

-Ray Edwards

I know I'm slow, but I can't see what this has to do with conversion rates.

Getting up Kenneth because he asked a question (politely, IMHO) isn't really fair. I don't get what it has to do with copywriting, and to me, it does seem out of place.

That's not to say that we're right, though; perhaps you're just seeing something we're not. If so, why not elaborate?

Just because something is popular doesn't necessarily make it good. Smoking is popular. So is Harry Potter, for that matter. But they have very little to do with copywriting in and of themselves.

I don't know what Subtle was trying to say with that post; I really don't. But no one's bashing the Bible here, Ray; we're just trying to understand the connection between that passage and... well, anything, really. I couldn't make heads or tails of it myself, but I admit that I'm not terribly bright, and I'm not at all religiously-inclined, so perhaps there's some obvious point here that I'm missing.

Kind regards,

-Dan

[Samuel Craig]

Its all about the leverage. If you are selling something that has the potential to make a million dollars then pay good money (10,000). If your projection is lower then lower it accordingly.

I once spent $100k on copy in a year and made $20 million... alas, not for my own business. All I got wa a 5k bonus and an engraved clock.

[TimCastleman]

Active -

If you wanted to spend say $500 I have an idea. Why not find 5 people on the WSO forum selling their letters for $97 a pop and hire them. Then test the letters and go from there.

Of course this is the same as putting $500 on Red in Vegas but sometimes the colors hit.

Just a suggestion that will get me boo'd out of here.

Here is a better one.

Find a copywriter that can work within your niche, maybe even has a past history, etc.

Understand that copy is not as important as the traffic you are getting, the offer you are making, or your position in the marketplace. But it helps.

Gotta run and duck for cover now.

Tim

[AlanCarr]

Jakpt, you may wish to look over there... *points someplace to the left*

Regarding the $15k jobs, these tend to be direct response, (usually mail order) and heavily tested by comparing the same demographics with your copy versus their control piece (their best copy so far). They know in advance, that if your copy will shift 0.5% more than their current control... then your copy is worth to them more than ten times what they're paying.

Who wouldn't want a 10x return?

Where the numbers sound scary, really scary, is when some individual hoping to make a few hundred, even a thousand, selling some ebook has to contemplate spending that kind of money to find out if it will sell.

Don't worry, no $15k cw will take the job if they think it will bomb.

Add in commission based or "per mailing" deals and you can easily hit $15k on a $1500 job - if you're good enough.

So I understand your initial disbelief. Sounds like a HECK of a lot of money for some scribbles, doesn't it? Yet we're talking about hyper-competitive markets and companies that would think nothing of $20K for a company car, a car that will ferry the ass of some junior sales rep to one bombed presentation after another.

You see, building the list or attracting the traffic costs money. So does product development, staff training, all that kindda thing. Ultimately where the rubber hits the road is where someone, somewhere, reads what your company has to say.

For such companies, say catalog stores, web sites, mail order, a huge chunk of the economy, the copywriter is THE salesman. There is no other. If Mr or Mrs Prospect sees your ad twice, it's the same freakin' salesman again.

And, in most cases, you only pay your (freelance) copywriter once.

Now if you were in that situation, it's your company, you're sitting at that big desk, about to launch a new product.. Who you gonna call?

The best bloody copywriter you can afford and is currently available, right?

Because next week, they could be writing for your competition.



B.

[EvieB]

I always tend to ask my clients what their marketing budget is, so I can figure out what they need, and what they can afford...

I have many Indian programming clients who roll out web site after web site, but their English isn't top notch when it comes to writing. They don't really give me any information at all about what they want... I ask questions about their project so I can gauge what they're looking for, and they just trust me to do the right thing, and write salesletters that will convert.

The products that they're selling, or membership sites they're releasing aren't big ticket items, so I price my work accordingly.

I basically charge $50/hr for the time I estimate it will take me to complete the work. Whether it's for solo ads, short sales letters or long sales letters -- even affiliate marketing materials. As a guideline, a solo ad would take around 45 minutes, and a long sales letter would take several days.

I guess I just charge a reasonable amount, because I don't have rich clients! Many are also newbies starting off with their first web site, so I give them a free critique of their site, and quote them for copywriting and graphic design work. They tend to order work from me as they can afford it.

I figure if I do a good job for them the first time, they might come back for more regular work (which is indeed the case with the Indian programmers). They do try to knock me down on price though! I pretty much stick to my guns with copywriting though, because it's a time-intensive undertaking.

All copywriters are different though, with specific target markets, and different strengths, and would price accordingly to suit their clients and the project.

I hope this helps somewhat. ;-)

Kind regards
Eva Browne-Paterson

[teamnirvana]

Guys guys, I agree its the sales pitch, the voice, the makeover and all the things that go into the copywriting business.

But, I would definitely say that, it does not require the aggravated pain that you guys have described above.

Sorry, to say this, but I do write, not in sales terms. But, I try to tend to touch the humane side when I write. And I dont charge that much too.

So, I would say, choose one, but choose wisely. I have seen so many experts replying in this thread who have provided valuable inputs.

[Dean Dhuli]

How much you pay is also dependent on your
current marketing system and how much more
you need to spend to reach the financial goals
you were aiming for from that project.

The companies and guys who pay $10k for copy
almost always have the resources and/or contacts
to take that copy and quickly make something in the
range of $250k-$500k from it.

If you're just starting out and don't know many
people in your niche, you should allocate some
money for your marketing also so that you don't
end up in a position where you've paid all the money
you had for a great sales letter and are now
left without any money to market it.

Just my 2 cents,

Dean.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

I know I'm slow, but I can't see what this has to do with conversion rates.

Getting up Kenneth because he asked a question (politely, IMHO) isn't really fair. I don't get what it has to do with copywriting, and to me, it does seem out of place.

That's not to say that we're right, though; perhaps you're just seeing something we're not. If so, why not elaborate?

Just because something is popular doesn't necessarily make it good. Smoking is popular. So is Harry Potter, for that matter. But they have very little to do with copywriting in and of themselves.

I don't know what Subtle was trying to say with that post; I really don't. But no one's bashing the Bible here, Ray; we're just trying to understand the connection between that passage and... well, anything, really. I couldn't make heads or tails of it myself, but I admit that I'm not terribly bright, and I'm not at all religiously-inclined, so perhaps there's some obvious point here that I'm missing.

Kind regards,

-Dan

Are you kidding me Dan? You don't see the relationship between
that passage and conversion rates?

"If you give up $100 then I will make you $10,000." (My version)

Anyway, Subtle and I have a relationship outside of this board
and he was just pulling my legs. He gave me a challenge and
I answered it.

My qualm was that my answer should not be considered
'out of place' but the question.

-Ray Edwards

[magic456]

Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer

I recommend you try out those who are charging less than they're worth at around the $2000 mark. Those people will get you sales, and if your product takes off, then re-invest your profit for some of the top writers at around the $15k mark. If it flops then at least you wont have blown your money.

Its a good chance to test out your offering before sinking big bucks into it.

Hugh

I completely agree. There are some really good writers on this forum who can write good content for less money because they are trying to establish or accomplish a level. Look for Dwayne. he goes by the name "yumeryu". He has been writing for me for very cheap and has done a great job.

Good Luck!

[fastcart12]

It depends on how much you want to pay. You can easily pay $50K+, but you can also find high quality writers for under $3K...also, isn't there a copywriter specific forum somewhere out there? (AIWA as I remember?)

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by fastcart12

...also, isn't there a copywriter specific forum somewhere out there? (AIWA as I remember?)

copywritingboard.com

AWAI is a board of student copywriters.

[elsvirtual]

Originally Posted by robbie foster

Hey, why don't you hire a copyrighting company and ask them to write this for you, there are many companies available who can write this for you for peanuts. Google around and you will find many.

Oooh, or better yet, why not try a finding a high school student...I'm sure you could get your copy written for under $20!

(for anyone who missed the sarcasm...I'm sending you a virtual slap on the head)

Evy

[zapseo]

I recently wrote a proposal to a prospect whom I had been told had hired a number of copywriters and had been disappointed.

I hear this ALL the time.

People pay cheap -- and then they are dissatisifed with the results.

Well, duh!

That's what happens when you go with low-priced producers -- they probably have not spent that much money on honing their copywriting skills and probably get lured in from promos like AWAI's "if you can write a letter like this one."

People like Vin, myself, and others have spent a LOT of money to track down top copywriters to train with.

It doesn't come cheap.

I know I've spent in the 10s of thousands of dollars. Not just in training, but also in access to top quality swipe files.

That's one of the things you pay for. You can read copywriting books, and they may tell you what has worked IN THE PAST. It doesn't necessarily mean it's what is working right now.

There are SOME things in copy that remain the same -- understanding people's emotionial hot buttons -- but, more importantly, discovering which emotional hot buttons your market responds to.

Let's take an example.

Someone asked me to critique a salesletter for a weight loss product. The domain name (which I haven't gotten around to asking again if I could use this as an example, so I can't give it to you.) use a military metaphor.

Uh, let's check that.

What is the #1 target of weight loss products?

Hint: it's not men.

Military metaphors MIGHT work, but it's really not a good message-to-market match.

This demonstrates another thing that good copywriters understand -- they understand to ask about what demographic your product is aimed at. A lot of the people who put up their shingle as copywriters not only don't know to ask that question, but probably don't even understand what it means. And even if they, did -- do they know how to assess that?

Having a copywriter who understands what and how to find the "message to market match" can make the difference between a salesletter success or a salesletter flop. It's MORE ESSENTIAL than lists of "power words" that seem popular with many copywriting products.

A successful salesletter needs:
* message-to-market match
* an irresistible offer
* from a credible source

Fill in the blanks with verbiage -- and while, yes, it is true that. from time to time, one word can make a dramatic difference in response -- you can have a quite good salesletter.

(Note that, along with the tales of "one word wonders", there are also tales of direct mail pieces that have been sent out with a substantial chunk of the salesletter missing, or with a fairly visible word misspelled, and it hasn't made a difference in response rates...)

Live JoyFully!

Judy Kettenhofen, Profit Strategist/Copywriter
NextDay Copy

[kobe24]

Let me give you a different perspective.. from a writer.

A) When it comes to payments, the provider generally sets the terms, unless it's really cheap or you're desperate for work. If you're desperate though, you should rethink the business plan (I know you're not at that point if you're just starting up). You need to set your own standards, refund policies, etc., and then customers either accept it or they don't. If you're talking about a larger group of writers in your company especially, you can't be constantly working out different terms with different clients.

B) There are a lot of types of writing needed online. Be prepared to offer several, instead of simply looking for what's most popular in the moment... it can always change. Also, you need to decide where you want your company to stand ethically. Do you really want to be the type that writes academic essays that students will buy and claim as their own (unethical)? Or do you want to build a reputation as an expert writer or company within a certain niche or industry, so clients come to you and refer your work because they respect you? There's a big difference in the kind of work you'll land over time, the amount you can make, and the kinds of referrals you'll get.

C) Whether a client cares about quality or not, always offer it, and always charge what you think is appropriate for it. You won't get every client, but you'll get the ones who understand the value, and more importantly, you won't risk damaging your company's reputation by being viewed as a poor quality provider.

[Vincent Cheng]

back here in Malaysia, most of the copywriters charge in terms of per job or per hour, so i guess there is not really a fixed price on copywriting charges. It is really a customized service.

[BillOliver]

Chris Marlow did a survey:
www.freelancersbusinessstore.com
Average for 1 page of 500 words was $1,500.. but can go to $9,000.

I'm in Malaysia and I use that as a guide ... then depending on research required, one third to halve it! Standard payment in industry is 50% up front, 25% first draft, 25% final draft. For the rest, the buyer relies on the copywriter wanting an excellent reputation.

HERE'S A HINT: Moneybookers (UK based but uses USD as base currency) allows buyers to place money in escrow until 1st draft and Final Draft. Great system.

Hope that helps.

Bill
PS: Your handle is "...Trader" - Are you a derivatives/FX trader?
I've done a fair bit of that in my time too!

[activetrader]

Originally Posted by BillOliver

PS: Your handle is "...Trader" - Are you a derivatives/FX trader?

I am a securities day trader (used to be not so much anymore but used to trade in and out every day

[Kyle Tully]

Originally Posted by senve

From the hundreds of things that a succesfull business needs, the hired copywriter does just his job, and should be always paid as a parttime employee for the project... no offense

For a 4 pages copy, to charge more than One hundred dollars is already too much

I know all copywriters here will disagree, but come on, copywriting is just a small part of the many investments that an antrepreneur does for his website

But if the copy doesn't work, then everything else was for nothing

No offense, but if you really believe that then you've never experienced what smoking hot copy can do for your business.

There is a reason why the $100+ million direct marketing companies pay their copywriters many many times more than what everyone else at the company makes.

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by senve

From the hundreds of things that a succesfull business needs, the hired copywriter does just his job, and should be always paid as a parttime employee for the project... no offense

For a 4 pages copy, to charge more than One hundred dollars is already too much

I know all copywriters here will disagree, but come on, copywriting is just a small part of the many investments that an antrepreneur does for his website

The thing is, to write that well takes years of study... hours upon hours of practise... and more often than not a pretty serious financial investment.

Good copy is also INTEGRAL to your success... at least most of the time (certain massive hype launch processes can make things sell out regardless of the copy, I guess... but even then, good copy helps).

To write a piece of copy takes hours of work... like 20, 30, 40 hours. It's a process of continual refinement and tweaking until the copy is as taught as a bowstring.

If you want to pay copywriters less than what they can make working at Macca's, well... it ain't gonna happen.

Logic dictates that a professional that is in demand (copywriting definitely is), takes years and lots of practise to master, and makes you FAR more money than you shell out... well, that's always going to be a pricey service.

-Dan

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by senve

From the hundreds of things that a succesfull business needs, the hired copywriter does just his job, and should be always paid as a parttime employee for the project... no offense

For a 4 pages copy, to charge more than One hundred dollars is already too much

I know all copywriters here will disagree, but come on, copywriting is just a small part of the many investments that an antrepreneur does for his website

1. You should never want to limit the number of pages for an online sales letter that you or a copywriter writes. It needs to be long enough to get the most desired action... if it's to get an opt-in, it might be as little as one page. If it's to sell a $2000 home study course, then it might take 80 pages of sales copy like the sales letter that Michel Fortin wrote for Traffic Secrets 1.0. That sales letter helped generated over 1.1 million in sales in 2004 alone. Do you think the owner of Traffic Secrets, John Reese, was upset that he was handed a 80 page sales letter. NO way.

If you are doing an offline direct mail campaign, then number of pages *could* be an issue because of postage costs. For example, you can send up to 5 pages of 8 1/2 X 11" paper for a single stamp. So a 6 page marketing package could need to be shaved down to get postage costs down.

2. You're hiring an independant contractor who is responsible for their own health insurance, taxes, and benefits. Big difference. That raises the price for any independent contractor, regardless of industry or profession.

3. Having owned more than one successful offline and online business over the last 15 years, I can say with much "in the trenches" experience that marketing that produces positive ROI is the most important thing for a business. You won't have money to pay employees, rent, webhosting, or any other business expenses if your marketing is not producing sales for your business. Without sales coming in, any business will eventually run out of money and be forced to close their doors.

Complaining about how much a copywriter charges is irrelevent. It's only going to alienate 90% or more of the copywriters who *could* help you.

It's a sellers market: There are A LOT more businesses that need great sales copy or great marketing than there are people with that skill who are available for hire. That's why you don't read posts from copywriters trying to cut each other throats to get a client. You'll even read threads where we help each other or offer advice on writing better copy too.

That's because there's a lot more potential clients than active copywriters.

Copywriters like Vin Montello, Ray Edwards, myself, and countless other highly skilled copywriters can be very picky about who they want to work with. One big reason why is our professional reputation is on the line with every project we accept. Write a bomb and our reputation takes a hit. Write a series of bombs and you quickly become known as someone that clients don't want to hire.

Write sales letters that make your clients money -- even a lot of money -- and people gladly pay your asking price. That's why proven copywriters can charge $4K and up... because they have proven their ability to make their clients money.

If your budget doesn't allow you to hire any outside help -- be it a copywriter, graphic designer, webmaster, etc. -- then you have to either go without that help or figure out how to do it yourself.

Complaining about the quoted prices isn't going to solve the problem. If it did, I'd complain about the price of everything because I'm fairly frugal with my money.

When I started my online info-product business in 2004, I made a promise to my wife: the business would pay for everything it needed by itself. No credit cards, no personal IOUs from the business to me or any other family member.

Back then, my online business couldn't afford to hire a copywriter or any other freelancer because it wasn't making any money yet.

So I had to learn how to do it myself.

As I was studying copywriting, I discovered I had a growing passion for it. After awhile, other people would see what I wrote and ask me to write copy for them too. Long story short, I've been a full-time copywriter since 2006 and have been consistently busy every step of the way.

My advice to you is instead of wasting your $100 on one copywriting project... praying every step of the way that you get sales copy that works well... invest that $100 into your own education.

Learn the basics of writing a sales letter first. There's another thread in this sub-forum on recommended copywriting books. Most of them can be had for less than $20.

You'll learn how to write a basic sales letter... something probably better than 70% of your competitors in your niche. Not great sales copy... that takes a lot of time and practice to learn how to write with that skill level.

But basic sales copy can still help you get started. Basic sales copy so if your future copywriter of choice can't start on a project when you need them to... or your budget doesn't permit you to hire a copywriter... you can still write a sales letter that can produce some sales anyway.

Good luck,

Mike