The ugly truth about using self-hosted autoresponder software

I personally use an email marketing service from a company. It's worldwide and i am really happy with them. in case a company shares my email without my authorization, it's pretty much against the rules so you can take action. but in case of self hosted auto-responder, you can't do much ... and as you mentioned, with paid software it's really easy to unsubscribe. i see that from me

That is clearly a wildly incorrect and absurd statement.

Sure, some people will use self-hosted autoresponder
software for bad uses like spam.

However, there are a lot of decent e-mail marketers
who use self-hosted autoresponder software for
perfectly valid reasons.

I use both self-hosted autoresponder software and
third-party autoresponder services for my e-mail
marketing.

The fact is that both have their pros and cons.

And both methods are used and abused by spammers.

I prefer to use self-hosted autoresponder software in
most situations for a variety of valid reasons such as...

1. Control

My lists are the number on asset in my business and
I want them under my control whenever possible.

If you're using a third-party autoresponder like AWeber,
GetResponse, etc then THEY control your list database
and what SMTP servers are used to send your e-mails.

2. Flexibility

I can change the e-mail SMTP server that my messages
get sent from in a heartbeat.

(I use my own SMTP server as well as external SMTP
servers like AmazonSES, smtp.com and SendGrid.com)

With a third-party autoresponder service, they decide
which e-mail server your messages get sent from and
when.

3. Deliverability

If you have your e-mail server set-up correctly and
follow good e-mail marketing practices, then you can
get great deliverability rates.

Think about this...

If you're using a third-party autoresponder service like
AWeber, etc., then the deliverability of your e-mails is
dependent upon the reputation of the server which is
also shared by other users (and outside of your control).

Each method has pros and cons and both are fine to
use if used correctly.

Dedicated to mutual success,

Shaun

Thanks for the detailed answer, I wasn't aware of the external SMTP solutions you mentioned. These could come in handy for sending app related email like aMember lost passwords etc.

You're right, correlation does not imply causation.

Let me fix this.

Not true either.

I receive a lot of spam from people who use and abuse
third-party autoresponder services too - including sneaky
tricks to invalidate the provider's unsubscribe links.

There are some third-party autoresponder companies who
have less strict requirements than say AWeber, (in an
attempt to get more customers) but they inadvertently
make it easier for people to abuse their systems.

For example, some third-party autoresponder services
allow you to import lists without requiring any proof that
you have a valid list or requiring the people on the list to
confirm their subscription.

A key factor that determines whether you get spam or not
is how strict the list owner and SMTP server owner are on
following and enforcing good e-mail marketing practices.

Dedicated to mutual success,

Shaun

I use a self-hosted solution and I have nothing to hide...
Not using a 3rd party auto-responder does not mean you're a spammer.

Aren't all email marketing software self-hosted?

I mean whose email service does Aweber use?
If it's self-hosted then they are in trouble according
to your definition.

-Ray Edwards

I like aweber you know what you get will always be good and legal

It's time for people to drop the suspicion that self hosted solutions are somehow at the least lame and at the most a nefarious solution to email marketing. I would listen to the voices of experience here from Shaun and Big Mike. Assuming anyone using a self hosted email service is up to no good, is like blaming the gun rather than the person pulling the trigger.

I've been on the fence for a while thinking about going self hosted and you guys have convinced me to try. I've used both Aweber and Getresponse with no problems but I want more control.

If you do self-host, what solution do you use? Can anyone give me some additional information?

Also, I hope someone can shed some light on this: If I have a list of say 80k, but they aren't opted in to my site. What would be the regulations against us?

users with selfhosted autoresponders are of two types:
starters - who do not want to incur recurrent charges with 3rd party services, until they can considerably grow their list and break even..
experts - who want more control of their lists or have a love/hate relationship with a 3rd party who penalized them in the past..

as you know control equals power.. so if a spammer gets hold of selfhosted solution it's way easier to exploit than a 3rd party system..

i've seen reputable marketers who use selfhosted solution to send those SHORT High CTR emails.. to the same list they claim to respect..

so in a day you can receive same offer appearing to be from different senders and in various copy.. but its the same marketer trying to getting your attention
best way they can..

if you find such spammers report their domains here
The Spamhaus Project
Lists

Just adding my note to the pile.

I use self hosted because I'm small, new, small list, etc. Being new (about a year researching and experimenting with IM) I know what I know but I don't know what I don't know. I figured out how easy it was to maintain my own list and found no reason to pay someone else to do it for me when it takes more time to compose an email than it does to set up an AR plugin.

I have no interest in spam or anything else that's going to be short lived and more work than profit, dancing around from server to server. I have enough on my plate building the list to begin with to waste time sending emails that result in a 1% CTR and risk getting blackballed in the process.

This is obviously nonsense, in all the ways previously cited.

I've used the same self-hosted software for going on ten years, in part because of all the reasons Shaun and Big Mike gave, partly because it has the ability to add custom add-on scripts to do various things. The system I use now is based on the original, but it is different than the out-of-the-box version thanks to the flexibility and availability of coders familiar with the package.

There's also an active support forum, so I don't have to post support questions here...

Or maybe they use a third-party eMail marketing solution because they are up to something shady and don't want to end up getting their own domain name blacklisted.

So, it can go both ways.

I moved to self hosted a few years ago..

my belief: such a critical part of ones business can not be left to the whims of a 3rd party.

Plus, being a programmer I like to have complete control

How would one, go about setting self hosted email servers? Is it cost effective vs the awebbers and getrespones of the world??

An extremely good discussion. My 2 cents to this -

If we are talking about reputed marketers using 3rd Party Solutions and not spamming - I beg to differ. I have created a couple of videos and posted some very negative reviews in various forums about some very so-called reputed marketers, who have been using 3rd party solutions and spamming me. I click the unsubscribe link and get a message saying I am already unsubscribed, yet I keep getting emails.

I am also spammed by some marketers using self-hosted autoresponders. But the fun part is that I never shared my email address with any of these marketers. But yes, I did that with some reputed marketers. That makes me infer that some of these very reputed marketers might have sold my email address, though their email policy says, "We hate spam as much as.......blah blah blah".

Now onto why self-hosted -
3rd Party autoresponders become extremely expensive at times.
My list that I built after all the toils, is residing with a 3rd party who can do anything with it. If they ban me for whatever crappy reasons, I am back to square one.

A workaround for people using self-hosted autoresponders, to ensure that they do not spam people, is to check their unsubscribe link and also to scrub your database from time to time(which might look a little impractical).

All of these (2 cents only according to me )because I am contemplating a movement to a self-hosted solution.

I use both for many reasons - none of which include sending "spam".

In fact, managing a self-hosted autoresponder is not one of the easiest things to do... And building up your reputation in the eyes of the email clients and properly warming up your sending IP address, selecting the best SMTP to use... It's all hard work!

Now, most "self-hosted spam" that I get goes straight to the spam folder...

I will also get the same email from "aweber" from the same person and it will also go to spam...

Long story short - "spam" isn't nearly as profitable today as it might have been ten years ago. It's hard enough getting "legit" emails delivered.

Just report the emails and move on - if they are still emailing you than you can utilize features of your email client to block the sender's address or just have it deleted automatically upon receipt.

Unfortunately - even the tougher rules here at WF have not stopped the selling/trading/buying of email addresses and I don't think it will ever fully stop and if it does someone will just hack Aweber (or a similar) service and we are back were we started.

While the emails you are getting from self-hosted autoreponders might be spam doesn't mean ALL email coming from these are spam.

Cheers,
Coby

P.S. I didn't bother repeating why I use a self-hosted a/r because Big Mike and Shaun covered that pretty thoroughly

I take it you stereotype in all walks of life.
Self hosted with the right mail server is actually the best way for companies to go.
Companies like paragon, ms, apple ect.

You should really step back and look at your post and think about deleting it. It shows an intellect I would not want to be associated with.

What makes it shady is how people use it, not the technology itself. I am not using a self-hosted email marketing solution but at one time I seriously considered using one and I might transfer to one in the future for increased control.

Thanks for the detailed answer, I wasn't aware of the external SMTP solutions you mentioned.
Last self hosted email responder usually suffers from bugs.

autoresponders don't spam people, spammers spam people... people speak before they understand something.

I use to use one but it was very complicated for me to figure out how to do the simplest of things you can easily do with a conventional AR.

But no, not everyone who uses a self hosted AR is shady. I've seen people do it the legit way. I've also had the same experience as you - Ive come across people in my inbox who don't do it the right way at all . . .

The experiences I have had with self hosted options has been pretty good. Although when I was doing it I was building up a fresh list with limited importing.

Other then that the system was pretty much right on top of things. Someone wanted to unsubscribe, a few clicks of the mouse and it was done. And they were taken out right away. Also kept track of bounces and the type of bounces and took those people out as well.

But this is exactly what every honest email marketer has to deal with every day... the bad reputation that that "spammers" give us. As with almost everything the bad few ruin it for the rest of us.

The best thing we can do is set a better example.

Not sure if people realize it, but this thread is outdated and been created 2 years ago.

I really could not be bothered with self hosted AR for the very reason that I have to time for a learning curve for something that's already easy easy to use.

Self hosting AR are literally so hard to manage if you are on your own simply because of the responsibility you have to so many people. This is more for the guys who have huge lists. The bigger your list gets the more head you deal with...

Just my opinion...hope that helps

I know a lot of people who use self hosted ARs in a perfectly ''legal'' way and for sound legitimate reasons as well.

I've tried to set up my own SHAR but failed as it was too complicate for me to successfully achieve, but I'm still looking for a reliable and easy to set up one - so, if anyone knows of one please get back to me.

My reasons for doing so are the same as others I know, namely:

• Economics - the big boys are getting greedy, eg Aweber
• Convenience
• Easier to import your own lists
• Allows both single and double optin options
• Can be used for MMO businesses which some AR companies don't like eg MailChimp
• Greater control over how it runs and delivers
• Etc, etc, etc

Basically, think of how the big boys screw you over and then think that this can be prevented with a SHAR!

Self hosted can be very complicated to manage and keep the IP's reputation GOOD so you actually inbox.

BUT it can be used legitimately too, in which case you don't have as tough a time keping the reputation and inboxing rates high.

Lewis

Sure, I'm using self-hosted AR.

It's much cheaper and more control.

If you are concern about the inbox rate, you can use SMPT server, that helps a lot.