Clickbank vs. PayDotCom

14 years ago

CB doesn't take ownership of your site... they can however reject it if they wish. You still own your site but you gotta abide by their rules. I know some people that have their site on both CB and PDC. There are pros and cons dong that.

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Aaron.Scott

14 years ago

Clickbank has way more affiliates than paydotcom but paydotcom is free to list your product, or at least it was last time I checked.

Originally Posted by AmyKz

Hey Everyone,
Finally have my first product ready to sell. Paydotcom makes a good case on their "compare" page of how much better their service is than Clickbank's, but I have questions:

1. Does PDC have as many affiliates as CB?
2. I've read - but can't find in CB's policies - that CB takes ownership of your product. True? For how long?
3. Is it possible to list the same product on both services? Is this advisable?
4. I'm also thinking of putting the product on CB or PDC AND having my own butterfly site where I'm selling the product myself. Is that allowed?

Thanks for any and all opinions!

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cellcom 14 years ago

Does paydot com allow recurring sales ?
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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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AmyKz

14 years ago

Thanks to everyone for your comments.

Alexa brings up an interesting point - what services and support should a seller give affiliates when selling through CB to be considered a great seller?

I realize now I'm not thinking enough about this.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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AmyKz

14 years ago

Thanks for the great insight, Alexa. Just one other question: what are "leaks" in a salespage?

I've never heard the term.

Thank you!

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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Sparklesperson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Hi Amy,

A "leak" is anything that has the potential to put the affiliates' prospect directly in touch with the vendor by email. (This always raises the ugly possibility of the affiliate getting cut out of the sales-loop and losing a subsequent commission).

Not all "leaks" will stop all affiliates from promoting the product.

The biggest, most obvious, most classic "leak" is a vendor's opt-in on the sales page, where the vendor offers the prospect a free report (or free trial of the product, or anything else) in exchange for his email address. Nothing personal against vendors, but when as an affiliate it's been my skills, time, trouble, expenses and work that have produced the prospect, I want him opting in to my list, not to the vendor's. Many of us feel this way and will immediately reject any sales-page with an opt-in. (These days some vendors have learned to appreciate this and will also supply an opt-in-free version, as an alternative, for affiliates who want it.)

A smaller "leak" would be, for instance, a link to an affiliate-page showing on the sales page, with the vendor's email address then given on the affiliate-page. Some pro-affiliates would still say "a leak is a leak" and move on to another product instead. I wouldn't. In a case like that, it would depend on the niche, for me. That sort of "leak" wouldn't bother me for a recipe-book or a book about nail-varnish, but it would bother me a lot (obviously) for a product about "making money online" or "internet marketing" itself.

I find that interesting. I've NOT promoted things in the past because the seller DIDN'T have an optin on their page. Maybe I'm overlooking something - can you elaborate on why that optin is a bad thing?

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Franck Silvestre

14 years ago

Yup!

I don't know, it may be just me, but I actually love to promote squeeze page, but with a few conditions....

1. Lifetime commissions (I like those)
2. High payout (coaching program, etc)

Because with squeeze pages, you send prospect to a list and some of them will buy later on... and you receive the commission.

I only do that with marketers who delivers the good though. Not with anyone. for some promos, you know that you make $10 per targeted lead you send there on average, so it's worth it.

Franck

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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Super_Vendor 14 years ago

Clickbank has wayyyyy more affiliates than paydotcom. Also, with paydotcom you must personally pay out your affiliates as compared to Clickbank where they handle the affiliate commissions on their own.

Clickbank is the way to go.
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jasondinner

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I may be young and naive

You are and you aren't Young Skywalker

If the vendor has every intention on following up with the prospect
you send him/her who opts in to his/her list until they either buy
the promoted product or unsubscribe, there is nothing wrong with
having an opt-in form on the sales page.

Other strategies that are effectively useful when it comes to capturing
prospect leads is if the prospect (visitor) does not buy, but when they
leave they are shown and exit splash page telling them not to leave
"empty handed" and get a sneak peak at the product being sold in
exchange for their email address (so they can be followed up with
as many times as it takes for them to buy the product)...

...or even better, try it for 7 days at a trial price.

Without this, all of that hard earned traffic you send to this vendor
that doesn't buy on their first visit or exposure to the vendor's sales page
is completely wasted.

Keep in mind that, in most cases, the conversion on the sales page
itself will only be around 1-3% and maybe a little higher (if the copy
is exceptional).

If this is true, then 97-99% of the traffic you send to the vendor is wasted.

UNLESS they capture leads either on the sales page, before they see the
sales page or when they try to leave the sales page so they can follow up
with them...

...resulting in increased response.

It's just good marketing, in my humble opinion.

- Jason

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

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jasondinner

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Jason, I have to say, I'm absolutely staggered how consistently and how repeatedly, every time this subject comes up, you totally miss the point.

It feels to me like every single time anyone explains why, as an affiliate, they won't promote a product whose vendor has an opt-in on the sales page, you "respond to this" by pointing out all the advantages of opting in, being followed up by autoresponder email, and all the rest of it. Jason, those points are not in dispute at all; nor are they relevant to the discussion.

All you're doing here (and I'm really, really surprised by the number of times you do it, apparently ignoring every Warrior who points out to you that this is what you're doing) is comparing "follow-up" with "no follow-up". A brain-dead amoeba is aware of the advantages of follow-up over no follow-up. That's not what the discussion's about, Jason: it's about the advantages of affiliate's follow-up over vendor's follow up.

And however many times you makes posts saying that following up prospects by email is "just good marketing", Warriors reading these threads can understand that.

You may be fooling yourself, but you sure as hell ain't fooling anyone else.

Alexa,

I don't think I have ever said exactly what I said in this thread.

And exactly how many times have I said how important follow up is? It seems
you are making a broad sweeping generalization. Did you read through all of my
posts that I have ever made on this forum or something?

Maybe I misunderstood the thread and your reply (i don't think I completely did),
but I was under the impression that you stated that you don't send traffic to a
vendor's page if they are collecting leads.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

The biggest, most obvious, most classic "leak" is a vendor's opt-in on the sales page, where the vendor offers the prospect a free report (or free trial of the product, or anything else) in exchange for his email address. Nothing personal against vendors, but when as an affiliate it's been my skills, time, trouble, expenses and work that have produced the prospect, I want him opting in to my list, not to the vendor's.

Just because you didn't understand or appreciate what I said, it doesn't mean someone else reading this thread won't find any value from my reply.

No need to throw out insults, being the classy lady that you are portraying yourself to be.

Please re-read.

You specifically stated the following

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

(Not using my skills, effort, time, experience, energy and money into sending my leads to someone else's squeeze page, though: I may be young and naive, but I'm not that young and naive! )

I am well aware of and understand the approach of you, the affiliate, collecting
the lead from your own opt-in form before sending the traffic over to the vendor.

I've done it before and depending on the situation, I would do it again.

However, if the vendor is any good at marketing, letting them do the follow up
with their own sales material will almost always make you more sales for that
product in the long run.

Collect the lead yourself too for all I care. Between you AND the vendor
following up, you may even possibly triple your results.

You misunderstood my reply.

I've done both. My current approach to affiliate marketing (ppc traffic) doesn't
include collecting the lead, but my profit margin justifies it.

It's all a matter of preference.

Also, you need to be aware of the fact that not every warrior in this forum, probably
less than 2%, even understand what you or me are talking about at any given time.

So making the assumption that "everyone" knows what you were saying is something
"A brain-dead amoeba" would do. (hey those are your words)

Just because I don't kiss your ass and agree with you all the time like everyone else here
(how's that for a broad sweeping generalization?

) doesn't mean what I am saying isn't
accurate or helpful.

And the mere fact that you went out of your way to insult me displays that
you were insulted in some way, shape, or form by my original reply.
(i was only joking about the young skywalker thing.)

No need to get your panties in a bunch. (no pun intended)

Insulting you was not my intention and if you feel insulted somehow, that I
apologize for.

Ouch girl. Just ouch

- Jason

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mastahhace

14 years ago

from paydotcom and clickbank i`ll take cj or adsmarket

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Here's a question...

Since when does CB having "way more affiliates" guarantee that you'll be able to GET way more affiliates promoting for you?

As a product creator, understand that simply putting your products on EITHER CB or PDC does not mean you'll suddenly get affiliates on either.

I say that because I have products listed in both places and have had more affiliates on PDC - but other times I get more on CB. So the statement by itself is meaningless.

Also, Jonathan Leger made a great point in a similar post to this one stating that no matter which service you use, you'll have much better success recruiting your own affiliates. And he is 100% correct on that point.

In any case, you should test both and choose accordingly. Both are great places to sell products from.

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tonyaphx

14 years ago

I would say Clickbank is better much more people promoting clickbank products you will get a lot more affiliates with clickbank

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laurenceh

14 years ago

I made this mistake myself when I started because I bought into the vendor's story that even if a customer opted in to "their" list and bought the product later, I still get credit for the sale.
Of course I soon realised if the said customer clears their cookies that will not be the case!

So yes it makes great marketing sense to the vendor, but not to an affiliate.

As for the original question, Paypal for me.

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jasondinner

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AmyKz

Hey Everyone,
Finally have my first product ready to sell. Paydotcom makes a good case on their "compare" page of how much better their service is than Clickbank's, but I have questions:

1. Does PDC have as many affiliates as CB?
2. I've read - but can't find in CB's policies - that CB takes ownership of your product. True? For how long?
3. Is it possible to list the same product on both services? Is this advisable?
4. I'm also thinking of putting the product on CB or PDC AND having my own butterfly site where I'm selling the product myself. Is that allowed?

Thanks for any and all opinions!

Now back to the original post and topic of this thread...

1. They don't YET, but that doesn't mean much unless you plan on shooting
to the first page of clickbank's marketplace with your product in your topic.

2. Someone else answered that better than I can.

3. Yes and yes. Sell it with different (but similar) domain names or just sell
from the same site, but the CB sales process in one directory and the PDC
in another.

Example: yoursite.com/ for cb and yoursite.com/1 for pdc

4. You can do whatever you want, but you will upset your affiliates very much
if you try to sidestep them to make sales on your own. They will end up losing
respect for you and not promote your products ever again.

Affiliates work hard for their sales, so any time you take food out of their
mouths, it's not always the best thing.

- Jason

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Christophe Young

14 years ago

Well, I'm getting a good education on the whole vendor opt in thing but about this...

Originally Posted by jasondinner

Example: yoursite.com/ for cb and yoursite.com/1 for pdc

4. You can do whatever you want, but you will upset your affiliates very much
if you try to sidestep them to make sales on your own. They will end up losing
respect for you and not promote your products ever again.

Affiliates work hard for their sales, so any time you take food out of their
mouths, it's not always the best thing.

- Jason

I never knew this would turn off affiliates. You are saying it's not good to have a separate (Non-Affiliate) site selling the same product? I don't see how you would be taking sales from them in this case. The affiliate site is all set up for them with tools, no opt in and everything else. If they do a good job in generating sales, why would they be concerned about the vendor's "other" site?

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jasondinner

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christophe Young

You are saying it's not good to have a separate (Non-Affiliate) site selling the same product? I don't see how you would be taking sales from them in this case. The affiliate site is all set up for them with tools, no opt in and everything else. If they do a good job in generating sales, why would they be concerned about the vendor's "other" site?

It's a matter of principal more than anything.

And my feelings on this are only mine and I don't speak for anyone else.

Only reason I stated this and believe it is because I've seen it happen and it has
pissed off affiliates.

It's almost like slapping them in the face and they will perceive it as you taking
money out of their pockets.

Especially if you're mixing their leads with the leads you get on your own
and overwriting their cookie. (i've seen that happen too)

But remember, you don't have to agree with me. I am just offering my
perspective on the situation as an experienced and successful affiliate
who knows other experienced and successful affiliates very well.

It's your business.

Try it for yourself and let us know how it goes. That is the only way you
will know for sure either way, right?

- Jason

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Christophe Young

14 years ago

OK, good to get your take on it. I haven't had any problems but good to know.

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jasondinner 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Christophe Young

OK, good to get your take on it. I haven't had any problems but good to know.

Now that I know you're doing it, don't ask me to promote your stuff. LOL
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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

I have a slightly different take than Jason on this one...

All of my products that I sell, people can buy without an affiliate referral. I have the sales page up and visitors come either by an affiliate referring them, or they find it on their own.

If customers find their way to my site via the SE's or something, I don't send them away to get an affiliate referrer.

On the other hand, I don't actively promote the sites either. I leave the promoting to my affiliates

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jasondinner

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

I have a slightly different take than Jason on this one...

All of my products that I sell, people can buy without an affiliate referral. I have the sales page up and visitors come either by an affiliate referring them, or they find it on their own.

If customers find their way to my site via the SE's or something, I don't send them away to get an affiliate referrer.

On the other hand, I don't actively promote the sites either. I leave the promoting to my affiliates

Exactly Mike. Maybe I misunderstood again as I apparently do that a lot, according to "some" people. lmfao

My whole point is, why create a completely separate page when if they come to your site from the SE's or something if no affiliate cookie will be dropped anyway?

If no affiliate cookie is dropped, no affiliate will get credit for the sale.

In the OP's 4th question, she asked this question

Originally Posted by AmyKz

4. I'm also thinking of putting the product on CB or PDC AND having my own butterfly site where I'm selling the product myself. Is that allowed?

Why go through all the trouble of creating that extra site when you can just send
traffic via a naked link to the one sales page you already have up?

And why do a butterfly site at all if you dont want affiliates getting credit for
sales on traffic to that specific page?

Maybe i'm missing something.

And like I said before, I'm not speaking for all affiliates.

It just seems like an unnecessary step to create an entirely new page just
to get your own sales. Just send a "naked link" to your site and risk affiliates
seeing it and thinking you are trying to get over on them.

Naked link = no affiliate link. just yoursite.com

So, do what you feel is best for your business and report back here with any feedback you get.

- Jason

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Christophe Young

14 years ago

Yes, I still don't see why it's an issue. If an affiliate approaches me and wants to promote my product to his list because it's super targeted, then great. I don't see how me having another site impacts this. The whole reason for me setting up another site was to use CB as the payment processor and attract affiliates from their market place. My original site uses Paypal and setting it up with CB was not an option.

There were no sinister motives there.

I promote the paypal site myself and it's heavily SEO'D for the search engines. The CB site is for affiliates and I leave the promoting to them. Sales come from both sites but from two different sources.

Let me be clear that I would never mess with cookies. There is NO opt in on my affiliate site anyway so that's not an issue.

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options

14 years ago

Hey, paydotcom maybe free to list one product but it will not go on the marketplace untill you have made atleast 1 sale. any other products you wish to sell through paydotcom will cost you $29 however you can list as many as you like for this one time payment.

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azurah22

14 years ago

I think Clickbank is way more popular than PaydotCom and offer more affiliates.

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promocomo

14 years ago

PayDotCom are not in the same league as Clickbank. There are several reasons for this, but I have had experience of both from the vendor and purchaser perspective and it's all about professionalism. But there are also some silly rules at PayDotCom which cause a lot of prospective sales not to happen. For me it's Clickbank every time.

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Adamonation92

14 years ago

I don't know if you have heard but Mike Filsame (who owns PayDotCom.com) said in one of his latest videos that he is going to be cutting down tremendously on affiliate marketing and focusing on his companies (like paydotcom.). He even said he was going to make paydotcom.com the #1 place for affiliate products in the coming year or 2.

So paydotcom.com could be the best affiliate site very soon, however for right now clickbank is where it's at.

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by azurah22

I think Clickbank is way more popular than PaydotCom and offer more affiliates.

Really? Huh, I never heard THAT before. Thanks for the contribution!

Originally Posted by promocomo

PayDotCom are not in the same league as Clickbank. There are several reasons for this, but I have had experience of both from the vendor and purchaser perspective and it's all about professionalism. But there are also some silly rules at PayDotCom which cause a lot of prospective sales not to happen. For me it's Clickbank every time.

Can you clarify what that statement means? That would be helpful.

Originally Posted by Adamonation92

I don't know if you have heard but Mike Filsame (who owns PayDotCom.com) said in one of his latest videos that he is going to be cutting down tremendously on affiliate marketing and focusing on his companies (like paydotcom.). He even said he was going to make paydotcom.com the #1 place for affiliate products in the coming year or 2.

So paydotcom.com could be the best affiliate site very soon, however for right now clickbank is where it's at.

I can tell you there are a lot of things happening behind the scenes - and it's going to change the way some people look at PDC.

Sorry, that's all I can say.

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Paul Walker

14 years ago

commission fee to paydotcom is cheaper if you are selling product above 50$. however the number of affiliates in pdc is far less than clickbank's.

another alternative is plimus. I like it. very fast payment. very fast to set up high-ticket (above 100$) product.

Paul

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Global365

14 years ago

I prefer Clickbank, sold a hi end product on PDC and had to email vendor 4 times to get my commission, that would have never happened with clickbank, and I find there signup and affiliate signup a pain in the ass...

Clickbank is the leader and always will be, paydotcom is not even second tier, don't waste your time

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Global365

Clickbank is the leader and always will be, paydotcom is not even second tier, don't waste your time

Hmmm - I guess I'd better pull my products from PDC then. All that money I am making just isn't worth it...

I fail to understand why people feel the need to choose between them.

Use both, on separate domains. Domains cost 10 bucks. Make the most of BOTH - trust me, you will make more money.

BTW - this stuff about CB and way more affiliates will mean absolutely nothing to the average user. It's pretty meaningless, in fact. Unless you have a big name, or you are in a particular niche, no one will flock to your new product to promote it. So if CB has 100 times more affiliates does NOT automatically mean you will GET 100 times more affiliates to promote your product.

You need to go out and recruit them. THAT'S how you make money with affiliates, whether on CB, PDC or any other system.

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Christophe Young

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

BTW - this stuff about CB and way more affiliates will mean absolutely nothing to the average user. It's pretty meaningless, in fact. Unless you have a big name, or you are in a particular niche, no one will flock to your new product to promote it. So if CB has 100 times more affiliates does NOT automatically mean you will GET 100 times more affiliates to promote your product.

You need to go out and recruit them. THAT'S how you make money with affiliates, whether on CB, PDC or any other system.

This is what I'm learning. When I put my product on PDC a while back, I had very little affiliates and no sales. When I switched to CB, I consistently had a lot of affiliates but only a small percentage of them got hops and sales. CB seems to have a LOT of newbies promoting products.

I may switch to a different aff program and start recruiting affiliates later this year. That seems to be the way to do it.

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Profit-smart

14 years ago

The big problem with PDC mike, Is that they have *daily* downtime. I'm sure you've seen this; and its simply bad business sense. The internet is *ALWAYS* open, and every minute your order page is down your losing sales.

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Profit-smart

The big problem with PDC mike, Is that they have *daily* downtime. I'm sure you've seen this; and its simply bad business sense. The internet is *ALWAYS* open, and every minute your order page is down your losing sales.

I am not aware of "daily" downtime, although I can check the server stats. In fact, I am not aware of ANY downtime in quite some time.

I am on with the PDC programmers almost daily and there's been no mention of these problems.

If you ARE experiencing downtime with PDC, it helps to know when, where, etc (I say where to be sure it's not a DNS issue...) and we can address it.

Thanks,
Mike

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SEOPoints

14 years ago

ClickBank collects and pays sales taxes for vendors.

ClickBank handles 1099 stuff with affiliates.

ClickBank pays affiliates, vendors don't worry about it.

All done automatically, in the background.

Does PayDotCom do this stuff for vendors?

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MikeAmbrosio

14 years ago

Originally Posted by SEOPoints

ClickBank collects and pays sales taxes for vendors.

ClickBank handles 1099 stuff with affiliates.

ClickBank pays affiliates, vendors don't worry about it.

All done automatically, in the background.

Does PayDotCom do this stuff for vendors?

Keep your eyes open... every one of those will be answered for you soon

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SEOPoints 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

Keep your eyes open... every one of those will be answered for you soon

Okay - sounds like PayDotCom doesn't do any of that stuff, but will do it sometime in the future. If it can be done EXACTLY the way ClickBank does it, where vendors do NOTHING (it just happens), then that would be super cool.
- Thanks
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agha

14 years ago

CB is great one but i never make a sale at all

Thanks

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I Got $3193 per month with this (laziness don't click it)

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Justin_nzpcs

14 years ago

It would be good to see pdc handling the commission for affiliates this I believe would encourage more affiliates to use products promoted on pdc presently the onus is the product owner and they don't all pay

i used my own affiliate program for two years using John D's Jvmanager this worked well but still didn't stop me getting the sweats every time money came through in large chunks to my paypal account yet to have it frozen but there are no guarantees.

Clickbank on the other hand if you earn money you get paid every time and on time and they have done this consistently for ten years for me that is the one point pdc can't offer presently and its the most important one. why promote a product with no guarantee of being paid.

Thanks

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jfinley

14 years ago

I think clickbank would be the way to go.

Thanks

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Clickbank vs. PayDotCom

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