Protect Your Affiliates when using an opt-in form on your salespage

[Gene Pimentel]

So you have a salespage that you want your affiliates to promote,
but you also want an opt-in form on the salespage so you can
capture the lead if they don't buy right away.

The problem is, if the prospect fills in the opt-in form then clears their
cookies, the affiliate who referred them loses out. There are several
solutions to this dillema, but here is one that I use very effectively.

This will capture the referrer's affiliate ID and invisibly send it to your
Aweber list, so that every time you follow-up with the prospect, the
message sent to the prospect will contain the complete URL of the
affilate who referred them (whether or not the prospect clears their
cookies).

Here's how it works:

Let's say your affiliate link is
http://your-salespage-url.com/members/?id=777

When a prospect goes there, let's say they fill in the opt-in form rather
than purchase right away. Use a custom field in your Aweber opt-in form like this:

name='custom referrer' value='<?php echo "".$_COOKIE['aff'].""; ?>' size='20'

(note: the above 'aff' may be different for the cookies your page creates)

This field will get populated with the referrer's ID# that is extracted from
the cookie that was set.

That means when the prospect fills in the opt-in box, the referrer ID# gets
sent to Aweber as a custom field (invisibly). In Aweber, you simply use
that custom field as part of the URL you place in the outbound messages
sent to prospects. In this example, here is the link you would place in the
outbound messages:

http://your-salespage-url.com/members/?id={!custom%20referrer}
which displays as:
http://your-salespage-url.com/members/?id=777

The anchor text would be simply http://your-salespage-url.com

That results in the prospect getting the exact referral link in every
message I send to them, automatically, even months or years from now.

Hope that all makes sense to you... it sounds complicated in writing, but is
pretty simple in doing.

The end result is, every time someone uses the opt-in form, every
message they receive will be coded with the URL of the person who
referred them.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Thanks Gene. I've been struggling with conceptualizing how to do
this for a client and you've explained it very well here.

[garyv]

Wow - I wasn't going to post here today, but I had to chime in here to say thanks! I'll definitely bookmark this post for future reference. Now this is the kind of Gold that Warrior Forum was made famous with.

[Marian Berghes]

I don't know why would you want to give a prospect more actions to take?

On your sales page there should be only one option: the buy button.

If you want their email address just use an exit pop-up but don't give them multiple choices on the sales page.

Great to know that anyway.

[Michael Oksa]

Thanks Gene,

I always wondered how to do that. The product creator gets to build a list, and the affiliate gets the commission...win-win.



All the best,
Michael

[garyv]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

I don't know why would you want to give a prospect more actions to take?

On your sales page there should be only one option: the buy button.

If you want their email address just use an exit pop-up but don't give them multiple choices on the sales page.

Many times those looking for info, but can't afford to buy yet will fill out an opt-in form. Then you can tempt them w/ an offer again later, when they may be able to afford it. Either way, even if a buyer goes to your opt-in first, you'll still be able to hook them w/ a follow up.

[Marian Berghes]

yeah, but if they see the optin first they will be more tempted to subscribe rather then buying.

To me the whole purpose of a sales letter is to close the deal...like I said above, if they can't afford it and decide to leave, just use an exit pop-up...but why tempt them to opt-in when you could tempt them to buy?

[Gene Pimentel]

In my experience, this results in an increase in sales. When I added this to my salespage, the percentage of immediate conversions remained the same, but the follow-ups I was able to do resulted in extra sales for my affiliates. This may not hold true for every salespage, but it works for mine.

Gene

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

I don't know why would you want to give a prospect more actions to take?

On your sales page there should be only one option: the buy button.

If you want their email address just use an exit pop-up but don't give them multiple choices on the sales page.

Great to know that anyway.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Let me ask you this Marian: as an affiliate would you seriously
consider promoting any product where the sales page included
an op-in form for a free taste?

I wouldn't. Not unless I had reassurance that the merchant
wasn't some boob out to build his list on my effort.

To get into explaining WHY it's a good idea to offer prospects
a way to opt-in and reward your affiliates for building your list
is beyond the scope of what I want to write today, but in
short, as a vendor who wants to get affiliates to promote
for you, wouldn't it make sense to setup your business so
you can say, with integrity, "I'm not going to "F" you out of
your commissions, even if the sale takes a long, long time -
and here's how my system works to protect you" ???

[Marian Berghes]

I guess you have to test it see how it works for you.

I have not tested this, the reason I say this is because I own some courses from some well known copywriters and in most of them they say its a bad idea to use that on the actual sales letter simply because a sales letter purpose is to sell not to collect opt-ins.

Don't get me wrong, the idea is very good (the whole keeping the commission and stuff) but I just think that it should be done with an exit pop-up and not on the actual sales letter.

And frankly, I wouldn't promote any product that has an opt-in form on the sales letter unless its an exit pop-up, but thats just the way I do things.

[RentItNow]

From an affiliate perspective I would not touch a site that has opt-in. To me it means (whether it is right or not) that you are not confident in your salespage, sales are down so you are building a list instead. I likely don't know you so why would I trust you would do the right thing in the end.

In the offline world I was cut out of maybe $30K by refering people to landlords and the landlord lying that my client was his new tenant (and not pay my commission). Same concept. Why would I build your list.

However, if I was granted access to the list or compensated for each lead, I would think twice.

[Gene Pimentel]

Marian and John, I completely understand your point of view. Having an opt-in form on a salespage is usually not a good idea. But testing has proven to me that in controlled cases, it improves sales. The key factors are -- having a good relationship with your affiliates. In my case, only people who are already members of my service are allowed to be affiliates. I've already established trust. Secondly, you must be able to show your affiliates that this opt-in form is there for their benefit. My goal is not to try to build a list. I'm trying to increase my affiliates' sales. My affiliates automatically get the benefit of having me personally promote to their referred prospects at no cost or effort on their part.

We'rte getting off topic though. Whether an opt-in form on your sales page is good or bad in a particular situation isn't the discussion here. The discussion is about how to protect your affiliates' best interest if you DO decide to use an opt-in form on your sales page.

Thanks!

[garyv]

I've been able to outpace competitors in gravity rankings by nearly 2 to 1 in clickbank by finding ways to get my affiliates extra sales using an opt in.

The script being provided builds trust w/ affiliates. They may not see the code, but they'll notice the increase in profits. And it may be just enough to keep them from shopping for other vendors to promote. Affiliates are HUGE in this business, and that's why this thread is golden.

[onlinemoney00]

Thanks great advice, now I can explain to my affiliates why they won't lose their commissions if they refer their people to a page i have an opt in

[Matt.Lake]

I'm really confused by some of the points of view in this thread.

Instead of ASSUMING that having an optin box on your sales page will "distract" the visitor from buying, why don't you TEST it?

The whole point of it is to have some autoresponder messages in place that results in MORE sales. I bet you you're leaving so much money on the table by simply assuming that having an optin box will distract people from purchasing.

And why do some of you think that just because a product owner has an optin box, that they are trying to screw affiliates over and "hijack" your efforts or that their sales are weak?

That's rubbish!

It's because it's PROVEN that the average person needs to see a sales message around 7 times before actually deciding to buy... and by having a good auto responder sequence in place you will make a TON more money.

I thought this information was basic stuff.

May be some of you should get over your self and see that most people aren't always out to screw you... and put to practice some of this stuff and TEST it instead of just assuming.

Your bank balance and customers will thank you.

[RentItNow]

Gene/Mat,

Don't take my comment wrong as I have been trying to figure out how to do the same thing (build an optin list AND offer my product to affiliates). My comments were made in the mind of an average affiliate searching through clickbank and came across a product they thought was interesting and salable but go on their sales page and see an OPTIN book. I would be thinking (and have thought this) how am I going to make money sending people to your list? This is a knee-jerk reaction and one I have. Understand this is purely on that senerio.

However, if you have a relationship with them already as Gene said, and the affiliate understands this, I can see it working 100%.

[Marian Berghes]

Like I said above, test it and see what you do.

But for ME, personally I wouldn't promote a product that has that or make one of my sales letter like that or recommend to anyone to use it...simply because any good afilliate should be interested in building his own list besides the sales.

And putting a customer trough 2 opt-in processes I my opinion is not in the best interest of the customer or the affiliate or the product owner...and for me personally that counts more then just a few more bucks in affiliate sales.

And no, your not leaving money on the table...if your copy is good your not leaving money on the table...and plus, you can always use the exit pop-up so you don't distract the prospect.

To me, this is just simple direct mail concepts...when a prospects reads your sales letter the only thing that should be going on inside his head is how to buy this.

This discussion is pointless anyway, because people run their business different and we all have different opinions...so we better leave it at this and get on with our lifes

[viralim]

Thanks for the info. Something to kep in mind.

[Matthew Iannotti]

Good idea..I am in the process of a sales page and decided not to have an opt-in at all on my main page just for that reason....

[Istvan Horvath]

And for whoever decides to have opt-in on the sales page: there is a script that will help you to keep the visitor on the sales page even after subscribing. The form will just disappear, replaced by any text you put in the script and all the data will be sent in the background to your autoresponder.

It was a WSO last year:
Action Optin - Disappearing Optin Forms - $4.95 PHP script!
(and I have an affil link to the original )

[Gene Pimentel]

@The Pension Guy Thanks for reminding me about that. Looks very useful in the right circumstance.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Aren't we missing something here?

If we focus on the opt-in form for a salespage... ok, that's
not always a good thing. BUT... say you want to launch
a new thing, so you set-up your affiliates with an affiliate
squeeze page to build your "pre-launch" list - the best marketers
in the biz do this all the time...

Only with Gene's technique it catches the affiliate's
ID for the squeeze page and puts that right into the
autoresponder database. Then, cookies or no cookies,
your affiliate gets a much better chance of getting
credit for a sale he or she referred to you.

You say (in your affiliate back-office): "The system drops
a cookie for you when you promote any affiliate product -
but we also have a backup system that does this cool
thing - when your referred prospect opts-in for the
free goodie with any of our promotions, the email program
captures your affiliate ID and actually goes to work
to email out your affiliate link, from our servers, for
every message we send out. Even if your prospect
disables or clears his cookies you'll still get credit
when he buys through your link... and every email
we send out will have YOUR link in it."

I've been thinking about these issues a lot.

In online marketing you have 3 experiences to consider:

->your own, because you want a ecommerce system you can
understand and use effectively.

->your customers, because you want them to have a good
time so they'll come back.

->your affiliates, so they'll be motivated to promote your stuff.

If you treat any of these groups badly you put limits on
your success. Affiliates are your sales force, a valuable
asset - so if you set it up so they feel secure in the relationship
with you they'll continue to promote... and if your product is
high-profit and big-ticket the sales cycle may be months long.
If your affiliates understand that you understand how to
work a longer selling cycle and you show them you are
protecting them so their incomes will grow as your business
grows, then you'll have happy, consistent affiliates.

right?

[Gene Pimentel]

And just to add some more food for thought -- You can capture the referrer's ID with this system even if you don't want to use an opt-in form. Attach it to your ordering process. It can be helpful to have a hard-coded reference of who really referred the customer.

[TheNightOwl]

This is a great tip, Gene! And one that I've been trying to work out how to do for some time now.

So thank you!

LorenWoirhaye's post two above this one is exactly what I was thinking.

Terrific post and as garyv says, just the type of awesome stuff that you can learn around here.

Thanks again,
TheNightOwl

[tradermike2008]

How would you do this for clickbank?

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by tradermike2008

How would you do this for clickbank?

This wasn't intended for ClickBank, it is for those who run their own affiliate program, but I'm sure it could be adapted for ClickBank sales. You'd have to determine the 'cookie' configuration created by a ClickBank visit and use that cookie.

[CDarklock]

It's always nice to see people who actually look out for their affiliates, instead of trying to strip them away from the system as quickly as possible.

[TheNightOwl]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

I'm sure it could be adapted for ClickBank sales. You'd have to determine the 'cookie' configuration created by a ClickBank visit and use that cookie.

Any coding whizzes want to take a stab at this one?

(Pretty please?)

TheNightOwl

P.S. I use EasyClickMate, which is designed for CB, on one of my sites. It creates the "...com?blahblahblahhere" affiliate links, which contains the affiliate's CB nick. So I should be able to do it the way Gene points out, above, using this software. Which is, of course, a good thing.

The "problem" is that this will only work if someone is registered with my inhouse affiliate software (i.e. easyclickmate).

Hmmm... seems that you can either do it using the variable OR using the hoplink nick someway.

But can you do both?

The xxxxx.product.vendor.clickbank.com style links usually result in ...com?hop=xxxxx on the landing page, right?

[Spinethetic]

How can I do this with Aweber?

I've been talking with somebody on support on how to do it but it seems to me that their Customer Support is full of a bunch of ... something rather I wont say

[Josh Anderson]

In the environment we are in today...

Anyone who is using a platform that tacks only by cookie needs to get their head checked. Using a system that has tracking by IP and cookie will help eliminate much of this issue.

Even a person who deletes their cookies or blocks them all together will still get tracked to the affiliate.

Great tip on the list technique.

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

The problem is, if the prospect fills in the opt-in form then clears their
cookies, the affiliate who referred them loses out.

[Spinethetic]

Originally Posted by Spinethetic

How can I do this with Aweber?

I've been talking with somebody on support on how to do it but it seems to me that their Customer Support is full of a bunch of ... something rather I wont say

I should rephrase this, am I able to reflect their referrer's url in the 'Confirmation Success Page' ?

Or will I have to use this method in the auto followup email, hence adding an extra step in the subscriber's/referral's process?

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by Spinethetic

I should rephrase this, am I able to reflect their referrer's url in the 'Confirmation Success Page' ?

Sure, why not? Just hardcode most of the URL and use the cookie placeholder where the referrer's ID goes.

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Anyone who is not using a platform that tacks only by cookie needs to get their head checked.

I think you meant "Anyone who IS using a platform that tracks only by cookie..." right?

[Josh Anderson]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

I think you meant "Anyone who IS using a platform that tracks only by cookie..." right?

Yep. Mistype.

[Gene Pimentel]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

Yep. Mistype.

Good. I don't need to get my head checked after all. :-)

[Spinethetic]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Sure, why not? Just hardcode most of the URL and use the cookie placeholder where the referrer's ID goes.

Well I am not familiar with setting or using cookies.
I am using $7 Dollar Secrets script as the affiliate program, but I modded my .htaccess file to make subscribe.php the default directory index page, and I want to make the salespage (using $7 Secrets script) as an OTO after confirmation of their subscription.

So basically their referral url will be mysite.com/?ref=paypal@mail.com even though that is not the sales page, just an optin form for a free ebook

I setup the custom field to capture their PayPal address upon optin which will be populated via variable "ref"s value; so right now I am using the immediate autoseq email as the link to the OTO, but I would like for them to be sent directly to the OTO when they confirm their email and let the affiliate get their commission; thus saving an extra email for me and about 15 seconds on the subscriber's part.

[Alexa Smith]

I do see that this is a clever idea, and I see that, in the general sense, having it is better than not having it.

But can anyone tell me why, as an affiliate, I should have any interest in promoting a product that has an opt-in on the sales page when there are 100 others that don't?

As the one spending my time, effort and money on finding the potential customer, why I should want the potential customer to be added to the vendor's list rather than to my own?

I just don't "get" this, at all.

I see many forum conversations about it, here and elsewhere, and I still can't understand where the potential upside is to me, as an affiliate, in promoting anything with an opt-in on the sales page. I see all the disadvantages clearly enough, though. Can anyone explain this to me, please.

[Spinethetic]

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I do see that this is a clever idea, and I see that, in the general sense, having it is better than not having it.

But can anyone tell me why, as an affiliate, I should have any interest in promoting a product that has an opt-in on the sales page when there are 100 others that don't?

As the one spending my time, effort and money on finding the potential customer, why I should want the potential customer to be added to the vendor's list rather than to my own?

I just don't "get" this, at all.

I see many forum conversations about it, here and elsewhere, and I still can't understand where the potential upside is to me, as an affiliate, in promoting anything with an opt-in on the sales page. I see all the disadvantages clearly enough, though. Can anyone explain this to me, please.

I understand how you feel here, I am pretty selfish when it comes to my list and try to promote my own salespages. But from time to time you are going to have to do some affiliate marketing...

So what I do is scope around for a good product and test it out. If it is good stuff than I will subscribe to a few of their lists for a month or so and read every one of their emails ...

If all their email is hypish spammy bullcrap, then no matter how good their product was, I will not promote an affiliate link to them. Their product must be worthy and their emails must be worthy in order for me to consider promoting an aff link to my subscribers that I have groomed and taken good care of. Thats the way I see aff marketing ... maybe its just me.

[Gene Pimentel]

Hi Alexa,

I understand where you're coming from. Let me try to get you to think about this from another perspective.

Let's say you're already a customer of mine, and you've already traveled up that "funnel" of trust to get there. You've purchased from me because I've already earned your trust and confidence.

Now I ask you: How would you like to earn commissions on the sale of this product that you're already using and believe in, and I will actually personally work for you to help you close sales. I'll do this by giving your affiliate URL to your prospects every time I send them an email on your behalf. In effect, you're "hiring" me to sell for you at no cost to you.

Alternatively, I'll give you a sales page where the opt-in box goes directly to your own Aweber account so you can build a list yourself.

Make sense?

Originally Posted by alexa_s

I do see that this is a clever idea, and I see that, in the general sense, having it is better than not having it.

But can anyone tell me why, as an affiliate, I should have any interest in promoting a product that has an opt-in on the sales page when there are 100 others that don't?

As the one spending my time, effort and money on finding the potential customer, why I should want the potential customer to be added to the vendor's list rather than to my own?

I just don't "get" this, at all.

I see many forum conversations about it, here and elsewhere, and I still can't understand where the potential upside is to me, as an affiliate, in promoting anything with an opt-in on the sales page. I see all the disadvantages clearly enough, though. Can anyone explain this to me, please.

[SeanCooper]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Hi Alexa,

I understand where you're coming from. Let me try to get you to think about this from another perspective.

Let's say you're already a customer of mine, and you've already traveled up that "funnel" of trust to get there. You've purchased from me because I've already earned your trust and confidence.

Now I ask you: How would you like to earn commissions on the sale of this product that you're already using and believe in, and I will actually personally work for you to help you close sales. I'll do this by giving your affiliate URL to your prospects every time I send them an email on your behalf. In effect, you're "hiring" me to sell for you at no cost to you.

Alternatively, I'll give you a sales page where the opt-in box goes directly to your own Aweber account so you can build a list yourself.

Make sense?

Not to mention that an email follow-up sequence, when done right, usually at least doubles the conversion rate. So the affiliate makes more money.

Also, this little trick opens up a cool new opportunity: quick and easy back-end commissions. As long as both the front-end and back-end product are on the same affiliate network.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Alternatively, I'll give you a sales page where the opt-in box goes directly to your own Aweber account so you can build a list yourself.

Make sense?

Yes, that part makes complete sense - thanks, Gene.

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Matt.Lake

It's because it's PROVEN that the average person needs to see a sales message around 7 times before actually deciding to buy... and by having a good auto responder sequence in place you will make a TON more money.

Yes, I agree. Having an optin form will help close the sale and the cookie will give the affiliate the credit. Since it is proven that most people need to see your message 7 times at least then how could the opt in box hurt.

So what if a few people delete there cookies once in a while and your efforts built someone elses list. You have the option to build your own list by sending customers to your squeeze page first before you send them through to the affiliate offer. If they just signed up for the affiliates squeeze page then chances are good that they won't also subscribe to the vendors list. They'll see the vendors optin box and say I just subscribed so I am not subscribing again and then you have control to send them your affiliate link.

I'm talking Clickbank here. Genes idea is great but I'm not sure how to do this with Clickbank. I don't run my own affiliate programs. I use clickbank.

Mike

[TheNightOwl]

<?php echo (mikeyman120); ?>

TheNightOwl


P.S. There's a related--and extremely interesting--thread over this-a-ways.

[zoro]

Originally Posted by Marian Berghes

yeah, but if they see the optin first they will be more tempted to subscribe rather then buying.

To me the whole purpose of a sales letter is to close the deal...like I said above, if they can't afford it and decide to leave, just use an exit pop-up...but why tempt them to opt-in when you could tempt them to buy?

Yes that's right. But if you capture their contact details first you will be able to market to them many times over. In any case most people wont buy at first visit to a site.

[jasonl70]

I normaly do not have problems with sending people to a salespage with an opt-in.

To be honest, it demonstrates to me that the vendor understands they can make a lot more sales with a good follow up process. However, I do opt-in to their list and make sure they aren't doing anything funny like overwriting the aff cookie with their own. I've only come across this happening once.

I do agree that having 2 seperate calls-to-action is troublesome - and that people may put off buying in order to check out the freebie first. The exit pop is probably the best solution.

[paulgalloway]

Originally Posted by TheNightOwl

Any coding whizzes want to take a stab at this one?

(Pretty please?)

TheNightOwl

P.S. I use EasyClickMate, which is designed for CB, on one of my sites. It creates the "...com?blahblahblahhere" affiliate links, which contains the affiliate's CB nick. So I should be able to do it the way Gene points out, above, using this software. Which is, of course, a good thing.

The "problem" is that this will only work if someone is registered with my inhouse affiliate software (i.e. easyclickmate).

Hmmm... seems that you can either do it using the variable OR using the hoplink nick someway.

But can you do both?

The xxxxx.product.vendor.clickbank.com style links usually result in ...com?hop=xxxxx on the landing page, right?

If the page has a ?hop=xxxxx attached to the URL, and IF the page is PHP, you can use <?php echo $_GET["hop"]; ?> to insert the affiliate ID into the optin form. (That bit of code would be inside the quote marks of value="" for the hidden form field).

The same thing could be done with the Easy ClickMate links, but your post didn't give enough details on the link structure for me to tell you exactly how.

Best,

Paul
==

[paulgalloway]

One important note for this if you're using Aweber . . .

When you send out your broadcast or followup emails, and IF you're merging personal data into the LINKS in that email (such as the affiliate ID you previously captured in a custom field), you must turn OFF Aweber's click tracking -- it doesn't work right with merged data in the links.

Best,

Paul
==

[Intrepreneur]

I guess it takes more knowledge to do this with Clickbank etc. I would love to hear more as this could take off as a way of keeping affiliates happy.

[Suzanne Morrison]

Originally Posted by TheNightOwl

P.S. I use EasyClickMate, which is designed for CB, on one of my sites. It creates the "...com?blahblahblahhere" affiliate links, which contains the affiliate's CB nick. So I should be able to do it the way Gene points out, above, using this software. Which is, of course, a good thing.

The "problem" is that this will only work if someone is registered with my inhouse affiliate software (i.e. easyclickmate).

Hmmm... seems that you can either do it using the variable OR using the hoplink nick someway.

But can you do both?

The xxxxx.product.vendor.clickbank.com style links usually result in ...com?hop=xxxxx on the landing page, right?

I use EasyClickMate on a few of my sites as well.

It is actually optional for the affiliate to register - they can just create an ECM link as normal without registering if you give them the ECM link format.

Cheers,
Suzanne

[Spinethetic]

i just found a little issue that may arise when using this with RAP or $7 script,

Assuming you are going to be promoting the optin page as well, if in your autoresponder you have

yoursite.com/confirmed.php?e={!custom affiliate} than anyone who optins throu you and makes the purchase will get an error massage from PayPal since '{!custom affiliate} is not a valid PayPal address :-P

So make confirmed.php this instead:
[php]
<?php
if (isset($_GET['e'])) {
$refer = $_GET['e'];
header("Location: http://yoursite.com/onetimeoffer.php?e=$refer"); exit;
}
else {
header("Location: http://yoursite.com/onetimeoffer.php?e=YourPaypal@Email.com"); exit;
}
?>

This way you can promote the regular link to your site (yoursite.com)