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For goodness sake, practise what you preach

by Iggmeister
18 replies
Now I'm not a newbie but I might as well be. I'm just really, really bad at this game. And I mean useless. I have hardly made a penny in years of trying. In fact, though it's embarassing to admit in such accomplished company, I have made $10 in adsense and $35 dollars in clickbank in six years. I didn't even get the $35 dollars because it wasn't enough for them to send me a cheque, after which they nibbled away at it until there was nothing left. How rude. I bet you didn't even know they did that.

At the risk of rambling before getting to my point I can tell you I already know why I'm so bad at this. I just don't know why I keep trying! I'm not dopey, in fact folks tell me I'm quite bright. I'm not lazy, I can't be with the amount of time spent in front of my monitor. I'm not technically challenged, I have been and IT engineer since the days when you fixed them with a soldering iron. I'm not confused, I have a decent grasp of all aspects of internet marketing - just take a look at my e-book graveyard. I even have a decent array of tools in that graveyard. I'm even pretty good at writing and have a good command of the Queen's English and an excellent all-round education.

So what then?

A classic malaise which is very well known. A one which I read regularly in the sales pages, e-books, membership sites and emails (yes I still keep buying).

I CANT FOCUS. I wander off from one unfinished adsense project to the next destined-to-be-unfinished pile of articles for some affiliate niche.

It's not MY fault. It's you lot with your sexy sales letters promising the earth. You know the drill....."....loophole...." ; "....the gurus won't tell you...." ; "....secret...." ; "....a ten year old can follow this blueprint...." ; yada yada.
Don't get me wrong, all that is part of the territory and if I find out your secret isn't such a secret or more likely it's just another variation on a theme then I will get my money back Simple. I don't really have a problem with all that. Though I do wish I wasn't so gullable but I suspect it is probably due to desparation to double my $10 before I die.

My point? My point is a plea to anyone of you working in the IM field and in fact should serve as a bit of advice. When you entice someone into your membership site or sell them your blueprint please do not view them as mere list fodder. Your intoductory paragraphs will no doubt explain that they need to focus and follow through. Good advice, but then what do you do? You start flogging stuff to your list for every tool, affiliate deal, jv special that you can get your mits on. And guess what? They lose focus, they wander off, following your jv or the other toys sold by the links on the software you recommended and then they unsubscibe. Believe me, in this I am an expert.

I have been on lists of some marketers who are genuinely decent folks and very good at what they do but they lost me. I have unsubscibed from almost every one of them over the years. There are very few marketers who can keep me, indeed there are only two who have. I really don't mind getting the odd pitch now and then, as I said before, it's part of the business and I respect that. But I am not your cash cow. It doesn't make sense either, from a customer service point of view. So many are so busy marketing that they forget the old customer service angle. I spend money, I'm interested in what you recommend, so why not try to keep me? I could have been on your liist for six years now. The average life time for me staying on a marketer's list is now down to less than a week.

In a nutshell, it doesn't make sense to pitch your salesletter for your IM blueprint to newbies if you're going to instruct them to focus and then blind them with shiny silver bells and flashing lights just to get them to open their wallet. Be patient and build up a trust. So few people seem to know how to do that, it's astonishing, perhaps there is no point bacause you are all making piles of cash.

Tweek your autoresponders, manage your lists better, stop being greedy and practise what you preach. Please.
#goodness #greedy #list management #newbies; customer service #practise #preach #sake
  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Sounds to me like the problem lies within yourself and not all the shiny baubles being dangled. I focus on my set of projects and ignore shiny baubles.

    You can't do everything. Pick a few things and do them well. When something doesn't work, eliminate it and try something else.

    Marketers will keep selling, particularly when people keep buying. Stop buying and start implementing some of the better ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Focus on 1 thing and do that 1 thing very well, then move on to the next shiny thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Iggmeister
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Sounds to me like the problem lies within yourself
      I was afraid my point would be missed. Too much rambling methinks.
      There's no point in telling me where I am going wrong and who is at fault. I have already said where I am going wrong and I am at fault. For that I seek to blame no one.

      My point is why do people tell me that 99% of marketers fail because they don't focus and then proceed to dangle baubles in front of me. Well they do it to make more money off me. Well, in return, I say goodbye. I don't mind a pitch now and then, but every day? And within the first day of telling me to keep focus.

      I know it's tempting to launch a tirade against me for being foolish but what's the point? I have already come clean. I was hoping to make a point not incite a good kicking.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I CANT FOCUS. I wander off from one unfinished adsense project to the next destined-to-be-unfinished pile of articles for some affiliate niche.

        It's not MY fault.
        If you go into a department store, do you expect only the item you need to be on sale? Of course not - but if a salesman tries to sell you lawn mowers when you came to the store for a necktie, you'd ignore him.

        It is your fault if after six years you are still looking for the magic secret, the things gurus didn't tell you, the fast money method that works every time, etc.

        Every sales page you read, every email promotion you read, every product you buy that isn't a perfect fit for your current business ....takes away from your focus.

        You know enough to do well - and the hardest part of this business is believing that and targeting your efforts. Others can't distract you if you don't read the sales copy they send you. They can't send it if you unsubscribe. You can't focus until you plan what you will focus ON.

        Try working for one month on one project without reading "for sale" items in your mail box or on forums or anywhere else. Don't buy anything, don't read one single sales page. You might be surprised at what you accomplish. Sometimes to find focus, you have to eliminate all distractions.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Iggmeister
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          It is your fault ...
          errr.. do you mean like i already said twice?

          you aren't paying attention.
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      • Profile picture of the author clint48
        I understand what you are saying, but the list owner may have other people on his/her list that may not have bought the product so they are just trying to sell something else to those people that were not interested in the first product. I can see that you could get tempted to buy another product, so maybe the list owner should say something like "if you haven't bought my first product you might like this one".

        The list owners need to keep selling if they are going to stay in business, but you do have a point, they shouldn't tell you to stay focused and then try and turn you in another direction just because they need to make money.

        Clint
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        • Profile picture of the author Iggmeister
          Thank you Clint, that's my point. Which is why I finished my original post with a call to people managing their lists better.
          I have no issue with people trying to sell to me. I have been referred to some excellent products this way. But they need to realise they are losing good customers if they originally pitch the sales letter at newbies and, let's face it, there are a lot of newbies coming in, and then include them with all the other list fodder.
          They need to manage that list independently or they will lose that custom. Not only will they lose the custom but probably hack them off in the process never to return. Which is a pity because some of these folks have a lot to offer the newbie who then runs off to the next teacher.
          No one admits to being a guru in this field but a guru is just a teacher and a teacher should know how to manage his class.
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  • Profile picture of the author ishan
    I have recently felt distracted by the bubbles. However, I am learning to avoid these now!
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  • Profile picture of the author Stefanie
    I hear what you're saying but then you have to be able to turn off all those background noises when you are working on a project. You already know that you need to focus so pick a method that works for you and ignore everything else. Don't even look at your email or come over here unless you need to get help with what you're working on.

    Marketing is everywhere, online and off, it's up to you to decide what to listen to and what to ignore. It's not the marketers fault, they are just working their business and that's what you should be doing because this is a business whether you're in the IM niche or not.

    Pick a method, turn off the distractions, take massive action and you will get the results you want.

    Good Luck
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    • Profile picture of the author Laura B
      Originally Posted by Iggmeister View Post


      I CANT FOCUS. I wander off from one unfinished adsense project to the next destined-to-be-unfinished pile of articles for some affiliate niche.

      It's not MY fault. It's you lot with your sexy sales letters
      Originally Posted by Iggmeister View Post

      There's no point in telling me where I am going wrong and who is at fault. I have already said where I am going wrong and I am at fault. For that I seek to blame no one.
      I'm sorry, but these two statements are contradictory.

      I will take away from this discussion a better understanding of how people on my list feel (thank you for that), but I can't say that I support your argument as a whole, especially since you are contradicting yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Iggmeister
        Originally Posted by Laura B View Post

        I'm sorry, but these two statements are contradictory.
        Yes Laura, a point well made. That was just my bad writing.
        When I said "It's not MY fault. It's you lot with your sexy sales letters " that was meant to be slightly humorous, sort of toungue in cheek but I can see that would look contradictory.
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    • Profile picture of the author Iggmeister
      It's ok Stephanie. I have a plan, I've learned my lesson. You are right it is all about noise. It's also been especially difficult doing a full time job and working away from home.

      But this is not meant to be about my short-comings. I was hoping to suggest, from experience, that marketers are leaving money on the table by annoying a load of customers simply by creating that very noise.

      I had hoped that suggesting people were losing out on long term sales by annoying people might strike a chord. But instead people are picking up on my poor efforts.
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      • Profile picture of the author Stefanie
        Originally Posted by Iggmeister View Post

        I was hoping to suggest, from experience, that marketers are leaving money on the table by annoying a load of customers simply by creating that very noise.
        I understand what you're saying but then that's why you opt-out of those lists. Sure there are some marketers who just throw out offer after offer and hope something sticks but it must work as I see some big name "Guru's" doing it. It's like looking at those infomercials on TV and saying 'who on earth would buy that junk' but people do or they wouldn't be paying a fortune for the air time. It's just a fact of life that we have deal with this constant marketing 'noise' but then the bonus is a free-market economy that we can all benefit from.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Iggmeister,

          But this is not meant to be about my short-comings. I was hoping to suggest, from experience, that marketers are leaving money on the table by annoying a load of customers simply by creating that very noise.
          Forgive my bluntness, but you hit the nail on the head there.

          This forum is full of people who in one breath admit that they have failed miserably, yet in the next breath are trying to suggest that they are in a position to tell successful marketers how they should change their business in order to be more successful.

          EG -

          Tweek your autoresponders, manage your lists better, stop being greedy and practise what you preach.
          It's not about those marketers.

          It's about every other user of this forum who have to continually tolerate people dishing out advice as if they are in any kind of position to do so.

          If you want to try and help people by explaining how a lack of focus can cause problems, that's one thing. What you are doing here is quite another thing altogether.

          You claim that this advice you give is from experience, but that's a complete fallacy. You have experience of not being able to focus or turn a profit (according to yourself) and you also have experience of being a subscriber on a list.

          Those two elements of experience are NOT the same as experience of successfully running a mailing list and making it profitable.

          Do you see the fallacy? Do you see that although you have experience, it is experience of something else - NOT the type of experience that qualifies you to give this advice out.

          How do you know what the marketers' game plan is? How do you know that they are not trying to filter their list to remove the unfocussed subscribers so that they can leave themselves only with focussed ones? Answer - you don't. Therefore your assumptions are wrong, you are fooling yourself, but not fooling me.

          How do you think the people feel who know how to be successful in business and prove it every day, and may have had problems focussing in the past but have overcome them - and they see people making threads like this?

          Do they shake their heads and move on? Do they pop in and point out the error of your ways? Why should they have to do anything, this thread shouldn't have been written. Those same people who are successful might also -

          * only give advice on things that they are truly qualified to

          * if they want to advise on something else, they are clear that it's an opinion, not a fact. They look at their own experience, make a disclaimer about it and then offer the advice

          * think clearly in order to make sure that they are not making false assumptions, before telling the world how they should conduct business

          Should they make an effort to do these things, but allow others to do the opposite without saying something?

          There might be newbies reading this who take some of your advice thinking that it will help them to build their business, but you have already qualified to us that you have no right to suggest that you can give advice on how those successful marketers can improve their business.

          Again, sorry to be blunt, but you need some tough-love. Whether you appreciate it or not remains to be seen.

          In case you think I am just having a go at you for the sake of it, I'll point out to you that what I am getting at is the difference between thinking like a consumer/subscriber and thinking like a marketer. It's a crucial difference.

          Even if you can solve your focus issue, this will keep you down if you don't understand the difference, and why it is important. It's important because if you run a list and make assumptions based on your experience as a subscriber, and faulty logic, rather than asking your subscribers and conducting tests and then comparing the two, giving priority to the test results - then YOU will leave money on the table.

          Irony - preach only what you practise.
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          Roger Davis
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          • Profile picture of the author Iggmeister
            A collegue of mine at the military base used to take his wife and four kids to the local Pizza Hut every wednesday and get takeaways every Friday and often Saturdays too. Not a paricularly healthy lifestyle but great fun for the family.

            A new manager comes in and immediately there is a mix-up over a missing free pizza on the take away. I forget the details.
            Friend goes in to straighten it out, without any aggression or loud voices. Manager gets bolshy and tells him where to go.
            Friend suggests that it's not worth fighting over one free pizza and points out that he spends about £1500 in there every year.
            Manager didn't get it and send friend packing. Never to return.

            Now that Pizza Hut has lost a recurring £1500 per year and gets bad mouthed around a very small town and a large neighbouring military camp.

            Now I don't know but maybe that manager hit the Pizza Hut Manager's forum that night saying "I'm sick of these damn squaddies (military folk) telling me how to run a business"

            Admitedly, my friend is no business man, he's a weapons engineer, but does that make him unqualified to point out the error of this manager's ways?
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Iggmeister,

              A new manager comes in and immediately there is a mix-up over a missing free pizza on the take away
              So the squaddie was absolutely 100% justified in making a polite request to have his order fulfilled, as his order (which he paid for) wasn't correctly fulfilled.

              The squaddie did nothing to encourage any harsh treatment, yet that is what he got.

              The dynamics of the relationship between a free mailing list subscriber and a marketer, versus a paying food customer in a restaurant who has been short-changed on the order and the manager of the restaurant are completely and utterly different.

              I'm afraid your analogy is so far removed from the real situation that it's useless.

              I am actually trying to help you, you know - albeit, without cotton wool or kid gloves.

              Would I help you more by saying, "You're absolutely right. He should change the way he runs his list so that it's totally focussed on your preferences, regardless of him actually catering to a broad customer demographic as opposed to just one single person. He should optimise his marketing towards selling more products to those who seem to continually fail through lack of focus."

              Is that more pallatable?

              Now do you feel like starting your own list and showing that damn ExRat that with all of your years of experience you CAN actually successfully run a list, run a business and make a nice fat profit?



              Would you believe me if I said that I would hate to know that anyone here had failed purely through lack of focus after putting SO much time, effort and expense into it?

              You're not the first person I have approached with the kid-gloves off, and there is a very good reason for it. I hope that you can see that.
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              Roger Davis
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              • Profile picture of the author RMC
                Yeah, you can only sub list so much. The hard and fast facts are that you still can't be everything to everyone.

                The more I try to be the good guy and never send emails, it doesn't matter. Even if I send an email explicitly related to what people sign up for I will still get a complaint. Just shows there is no "right" way, one persons view of how to send emails and market is just one persons view.

                As a business you have to operate by what keeps you in business.

                One person might be at the right place to use the next shiny method and love my email, you might get distracted.

                Although, the good thing is that perhaps you finally recognize the point of failure and should do more to change that.

                You really don't NEED to be on any lists at all. It just feels that way.

                Even I after years of experience find myself wondering about on days when I have much to much work to do...and I even have the luxury of knowing what I'm doing.

                If I could be of assistance... I would suggest you shut off the computer.. sit down and hand write some ideas and steps to accomplish something, anything.

                Then assign those tasks to limited quantities of time to work on them.

                If it doesn't generate money, at least you know not to do it again. If it makes money, improve on it and repeat.

                But finally, DONT open your email while you're working on those tasks. And don't surf unless you really need to learn how to do something.

                That should help.
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  • Profile picture of the author Diana Lane
    Telling marketers to promote fewer products to everyone because you lack the determination to make proper use of the ones you've already bought is like an alcoholic asking a publican to sell less beer to people.
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