[NEWBIES] I might be out of order saying this BUT...

by KarlWarren

Posted: 14 years ago 18 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

... if you think you're going to make money online (and grow a business/support your family) you'd better at least know what you're going to do FIRST.

If you think that leaving a job to START Internet Marketing is the way you're going to do it, then you most likely have another thing coming.

That thing will probably be:

- DEBT or DESPERATION

If you have savings in place, a buffer to live on, you might be a little better equipped - but, that's still not the ideal place to BEGIN Internet Marketing.

I don't care how many "If you dream it, it will come true" or "burn your bridges" people tell you otherwise... people fail, some people fail spectacularly. Some people lose everything...

Some succeed, but those who succeed are usually those who know what they're going to do, and then do it.

My advice?

If you don't yet know what you want to do...
If you don't yet know what you can do...
If you don't yet know how to do it...

If you hate your job, find a better one... while building a foundation for your business.

Once you can afford to go part-time at work, do so (if that means changing jobs, cool)

Once you can afford to leave, if it's the best thing for your business... do so.

Now, my advice will most likely be blasted as negativity... it's not. I'm all for people succeeding in Internet Marketing - everyone who applies themselves to it deserves to succeed. But there's a difference between dreaming and doing.

What I'm not all for, is people drowning in debt, not knowing what to do, having family and relationship problems because a small minority of people who have applied themselves to internet marketing got lucky or DID IT THE RIGHT WAY and built a business on strong foundations - and they think they can too.

There is no magic bullet...

There are lucky breaks, and there are people who make their own luck.

#newbies #order

Tinkerbell 14 years ago

Karl,

Thanks for this post.

This year I've hit problems with marketing online. See, I know what I "can" do, and I know "how" to do most of it. My dilemma is not knowing "what I want" to do. Terrible sense of direction -- or rather -- no direction at all.

I've ended up dropping almost everything I normally do online, and maintaining only a few things to bring in a bit of extra money now and then. My main problem, I see now (hindsight is 20/20 right?) is treating my online endeavors as more of a hobby than a business.

Anyway, I hope a lot of folks read your post. It may sound a bit hard or harsh, but it absolutely makes sense.
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Dennis Gaskill 14 years ago

Good post, Karl. It's crazy some of the things people will do. They get all fired up filled with bravado and think they can will what they want. Trouble is, willing what you want can take a long time. Emotions change, and with them, the confidence and bravado can fade quickly. Reality sets in, and it can be a rude awakening. Hope for the best, yes, but don't bet everything on it, because life has a way of humbling us.
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Rich Miller 14 years ago

Karl - Great post, I came close a few time to make the jump thinking that I could drastically improve my online income if I just quit my day job and spend more time getting things going. I am so glad I still have my day job.. I am sure one day it will happen, but not until I know I can replace my current offline income.
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Mac the Knife 14 years ago

One key to becoming successful online is to learn quickly what doesn't work for you. I know folks who keep going down the SAME road over and over again and are making very little at all...they refuse to change. Personally, I make adjustments anytime and every time I see an opportunity to do so that will positively affect my income.

Now, as far as your day job is concerned, there IS validity to putting yourself in a position to put more time into IM by quitting your day job, but there are quite a few factors to consider before doing so.

Are you making money consistently online and is your income increasing?
Are you making enough to cover your basic bottom line monthly debts?
Is your online business scalable and multi-faceted? (in other words, don't put all your eggs in one basket)
Do you have a good coach and/or support team that will help you get access to the resources you need to ramp up your business whenever you need to?

The OP is really right, but for some, heart, perseverance, and passion can create HUGE success stories...if you are making $500/month online but can't seem to get past this figure because of how much time you commit to your day job...you may NEVER succeed online. There IS that fine line of the cliff and the time to jump...intelligence, a supportiive network, and experience can be your guides into knowing just when is the right time to make the leap...

Mac the Knife
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DaveHughes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

If you think that leaving a job to START Internet Marketing is the way you're going to do it, then you most likely have another thing coming.

That thing will probably be:

- DEBT or DESPERATION

What's interesting to me is that so many of the marketing efforts in the IM world play on exactly those two things to convince people to part with their money (debt and desperation), often with a "You can quit your job TOMORROW!" type message.

Which means, in part, the less honest side of the industry is at least partly to blame for the expectations of the newbies.

"Don't believe everything you read" applies in IM just like in the real world, folks.

If you're considering it, listen to George in another thread here..."pretend quit" and see how it goes.

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Slin

14 years ago

Good post, I jumped into internet marketing and promptly lost $400.

My advise? Keep it slow, there is no reason to rush. I think that is the main problem people have, is they want to be making thousands tomorrow.

What's the best way to eat an elephant?

A little bit at a time.

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All Night Cafe

14 years ago

There is no better learning experience of the basics
of how internet marketing works. Before anyone should
leave a guaranteed pay check, take your spare time
and do the basics.

With the basics down, you can decide if you really
want to put in the boring hours of being in your
own IM business.

I know hundreds of IM'ers that work alone all day.
I know that I enjoy talking and just emailing others
isn't the same.

Their is a learning curve to marketing online. The job
you have now you had to put in the time.

I worked 10 hours days and came in spent time
with my wife and then studied my butt off to work
at home.

Learn first, slowly get into online and it will not be
be as hard. Besides building friendships and partners
takes months and years.

Thanks
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Mary Wilhite

14 years ago

Another with people new to IM is that they are not focused. I've been there myself when I was starting and I was overwhelmed by the huge amount of information I found. All these ideas were swimming on my mind and I felt the NEED to act on all of them. Fortunately, I realized that I needed to focus and made myself a plan. Sticking to that plan (which was hard!) prevented me from making myself broke.

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

My dilemma is not knowing "what I want" to do. Terrible sense of direction -- or rather -- no direction at all.

....

My main problem, I see now (hindsight is 20/20 right?) is treating my online endeavors as more of a hobby than a business.

Hey Tinkerbell, we've all been there - it's part of the learning process. Now, all you have to do is get serious about the thing that makes you money (providing you want to do it, that is) and build a business around it.

You could even write a business plan, which you should stick to (and adapt as needed) to help you focus and give you some direction.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Good post, Karl. It's crazy some of the things people will do.

Hi Dennis, I know all about taking crazy, and massive action - I burned my bridges multiple times. Looking back, I have no regrets - but, I could have made life a heck of a lot easier for myself (and those around me)

Originally Posted by Rich Miller

Karl - Great post, I came close a few time to make the jump thinking that I could drastically improve my online income if I just quit my day job and spend more time getting things going. I am so glad I still have my day job.. I am sure one day it will happen, but not until I know I can replace my current offline income.

Thanks Rich,

It's surprising how much of your newly found free time is taken up by people who want you to spend it doing other things...

ie. Going shopping during the day, just going out for a coffee, taking the kids to the park etc. Having the structure of a job (for a guaranteed income) actually prevents this happening because people don't see you as "playing about on the internet"

It takes a lot of determination (and sometimes damaged friendships) to stay in 'work/building business' mode at times like this.

Originally Posted by paulbarrs

Carl,

Imagine the sound of a thousand hands clapping together - that's what I'd give you for your post.

I'm stunned by the idiocy of some people these days - Go figure :confused:

Hi Paul,

if it weren't for idiots, the intelligent wouldn't shine

I actually enjoy idiots, they bring a smile to my face.

Originally Posted by Macurdy

Now, as far as your day job is concerned, there IS validity to putting yourself in a position to put more time into IM by quitting your day job, but there are quite a few factors to consider before doing so.

Hi Mac,

great reply - there are a lot of things people should take into account when leaving their job to pursue an IM career. One big factor is "their responsibilities". I shudder to think how many parents have left a job, with no other income to support their family without first building up a foundation for their business, because they've fallen for the "get rich quick" seduction techniques.

Originally Posted by DaveHughes

"Don't believe everything you read" applies in IM just like in the real world, folks.

If you're considering it, listen to George in another thread here..."pretend quit" and see how it goes.

Hi Dave,

I loved reading George's thread when I got up this morning - I actually did something similar when I went BACK to work after being a fool and jumping in at the deep end.

Originally Posted by Slin

What's the best way to eat an elephant?

A little bit at a time.

Slin, I love that!

Originally Posted by All Night Cafe

There is no better learning experience of the basics of how internet marketing works. Before anyone should
leave a guaranteed pay check, take your spare time
and do the basics.

Great advice, get the foundations in place, and the building is less likely to topple.

Originally Posted by Mary Wilhite

Sticking to that plan (which was hard!) prevented me from making myself broke.

It probably wouldn't surprise you to know that most people don't have a plan. It never ceases to amaze me - but, I guess I'm just one of the 'lucky' few who has one - and has managed to build a relatively successful business by sticking to it and adjusting it as needed.

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whippet75 14 years ago

In my experience, there is a long transition between paid employment and establishing yourself online...softly, softly catchy monkey !
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bit twiddler 14 years ago

These are great posts & this forum is full of not only great posts like this, but many great, and helpful, and generous Warriors.

In 2003, when I joined this forum, I was floundering and wondering where my life was leading. I had suffered a great and devastating financial setback that took away my 3.2M in retirement funds that was spread across high reward high risk investments. I was doing startups for investors in Las Vegas and decided the last project I did I would fund myself instead of using other people's money. Of course that was the one in 16 startups that tanked and cost me everything. The result, I lost my "juice" in the startup trade and lost the respect and confidence I once enjoyed from others in that trade.

I got online and started researching this "IM" thing and ran into this forum. Over several months "Allen Says" communicated with me, not knowing anything about me, and gave me great guidance, the exact guidance I am seeing here in this thread "Don't quit your day job"! until you are actually successful in business with this "IM" stuff. He reminded me of many things I already held close to my being; research, plan, research, deploy (I employed demographic studies back then) and test, test, and test more. Treat it like a business and it will treat you well and with great rewards. You must have an understanding of your business, you must have collaborators who know your market (like you Warriors), and you absolutely must have a passion for what you are doing. Thank You Allen!!

Because I was desperate and almost broke, about $20k in assets and about $240k in debts, I chose to get into real estate because the money would come quicker and it was not a difficult business for a business person that knew how to develop new business. I've done great for the past 7 years. However, I have less than half of the business today that I enjoyed just a few years ago. I also own and operate a Virtual Tour company, which by no surprise is suffering the same dollar volume setbacks.

Because of the setbacks in my trade, and because I'll be 57 next month, I am renewing my "IM" interest and have been researching the trade and becoming involved once again in this forum (I never forgot the friendliness and help from those that were here then). At my age, I need to continue to build a plan for my future financial needs and what I have now isn't enough. I do know that there is plenty of trade in the "IM" industry for me to provide for myself at a very high level. Others without my background and skills have done quite well, I admire them. For a few months now, I have been starting from scratch with "IM" and using this forum as my hub, my anchor. It is my intent to be fully functional within the next 6 to 8 months with a regular revenue stream. Keep in mind I am almost "autistic" with business models and business plans which I think gives me an edge over the average "newbie". I also have a computer industry background dating back to the late 70's. I think the average new "IM'er" should expect they will see similar results in a longer period of time. Back in the day, we expected our startups to actually start generating truly in the "black" within 3 to 5 years. We actually saw this happen in less than two years with a few of them, but that isn't typical of startups. Our startups were in the $5M to $120M annual revenue range, but the principals are the same here as they were there.

I believe, having researched diligently in the past months, an average individual entering this trade willing to put in about 4 hours a day every weekday and a little on the weekends can in fact have a few (or more) very successful niche businesses generating not only the revenues but also the confidence to go full time with "IM'ing" in about 18 months. I may be wrong, but I think the average person still has the need to learn not only the markets, products, and skills, but they need to learn a great deal more about computers and softwares and even a little about the scripts and then they need to learn how to stay on top of the ever changing landscape in this trade. NEWBIES........this is achievable! A four year college degree gets you a $32k annual salary today, this trade can get you that every quarter if you follow an 18 month plan, IMHO................T J

PS: Warriors, thank you for all of your recent and past contributions to my life and thank you in advance for what I know you will contribute to my life in the future!

PSS: Newbie's, be grateful you have a hub like this forum and all of these Warriors in it, this is the greatest place for your success to begin.

PSSS: Allen, I know you are out there, thank you for encouraging me to make a smart decision in 2003 and thank you for knowing I may return one day and be as welcome now as I was then. You are the best!

T J
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- M Thompson 14 years ago
  
  If you are prepared to work at IM you will succeed., you just need to have a passion and a desire and probably a bit of desperation.
  
  I started when i was almost down to my last 30 days worth of cash.... I worked 16 hour days for months to make it work, took on soul destroying jobs for other people to fund more sites...but after 6 months I was earning a good monthly income and could ease off, in the end it was worth it and now 5 years later when i look back at it I wouldn't change it ...
  
  I don't recommend that path for anyone but you can still put in 4 hours a night 5 days a week and then another 12 at weekends if you really want it...
  
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Zeus66 14 years ago

I want to echo what Mark said just above me. I actually think the OP is ultimately right, but I also know that real desperation is a strong motivator. I would stop short of recommending that someone quit a job before they're set up to replace at least that income with their online business, but I have to be honest and say that being "up against it" is just what some folks need. If you're lucky enough to find motivation naturally, understand that this is a gift. Some are not so lucky in terms of their natural level of motivation in life. And yes, I do believe that a lot of that is inborn, not learned. Not to say you can't learn it too, but I just think some are born with higher natural levels than others, just like other traits.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that it does take really dire circumstances for some people to dig in and really work at this. I would never wish it on someone, but I've known a few people who told me being on the brink of homelessness was the thing that turned them around forever. I don't think we can apply these rules across the board.
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cashcow

14 years ago

I totally agree with the OP - it is so much easier to be able to build your IM business from within the financial security of your day job.

But, you need to be willing to give up sitting in front of the TV at night

And you need to be willing to give up going out with friends on weekends

And you need a supportive family that understands why you are spending all your time on the computer

And you need to treat your IM venture like a business and not a hobby

Having to make money out of desperation can be a good motivator if you already have a plan in place. It can really kick you into high gear. But if you don't have a plan then quitting your job can put you into debt pretty fast.

The thing is that no matter how hard you work and how many hours you put in, if you don't have a plan and you keep flip flopping around then you won't be able to bring in the money that you need to replace that day job and if you have already quit it, you end up being more desperate and more in debt and less able to focus on building a business.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cashcow

Of course, that eliminates IM for about 90% of the population right there.

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paulie888 14 years ago

Great advice here. It's one thing to be involuntarily in a desperate situation through no fault of your own, but it's something entirely different if you voluntarily put yourself in one (i.e. through quitting your job when you're barely making any money, if at all, from IM). Not everyone can pull off amazing IM success when they have the equivalent of a gun pointed to their head, and it's "do or die" desperation that they have to face, and my guess is that many will fail miserably when confronted with this situation.
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- Martin Luxton 14 years ago
  
  Karl,
  
  I think we've all been there.
  
  Running around like headless chickens spending too much on the latest Google Terminator/Destroyer/Killer/Decimator . . .
  
  By the time we realize how the game really works we have run out of money and energy.
  
  Best advice I can give to newbies on a tight budget: spend as little as you can until you have some sellable skills which can finance your IM education.
  
  Martin
  
  Thanks
  
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petec 14 years ago

Thanks for the post Karl.
As a nearly newbie myself i find the input from experienced marketers very valuable, so thanks for that folks.
My personal attitude towards building my online business is to spend the last 6 months experimenting, seeing what works and what doesn't, heck i've even taught myself html.
I suppose i am lucky as i contract so i can work on a project for maybe 4-6 months then have no work for a couple of months, this then gives me the time to educate myself.
Not making much money at the moment but i know where i want to be and i will get there. Keep going as they say.
Thanks again Karl and all warriors.
Pete
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