Paypal dispute... what you think I need to do..?

14 years ago

This is something inevitable in a world like this.

It's very hard to win a dispute since Paypal almost always sides with the buyer as the item is intangible. I generally just ignore the dispute and then submit their email address to some CPA email submits :p

If I were you, I wouldn't have escalated the claim and just refund him since he's going to get the money anyway. That way, you don't piss him off and he doesn't share your product everywhere if he hasn't already.

Good luck,

Mark

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searchnology

14 years ago

Actually, the opposite is true. PayPal does NOT refund digital products. So just escalate the dispute to Paypal which prevents the person from making any additional comments/claims.

Now, what could happen is that if they purchased with a credit card, that was linked to their Paypal account, their credit card company can charge it back. Not sure if Paypal will then take it back from you....probably not worth the hassle.

Originally Posted by Mark Owens

This is something inevitable in a world like this.

It's very hard to win a dispute since Paypal almost always sides with the buyer as the item is intangible. I generally just ignore the dispute and then submit their email address to some CPA email submits :p

If I were you, I wouldn't have escalated the claim and just refund him since he's going to get the money anyway. That way, you don't piss him off and he doesn't share your product everywhere if he hasn't already.

Good luck,

Mark

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lisag

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Owens

This is something inevitable in a world like this.

It's very hard to win a dispute since Paypal almost always sides with the buyer as the item is intangible. I generally just ignore the dispute and then submit their email address to some CPA email submits :p

If I were you, I wouldn't have escalated the claim and just refund him since he's going to get the money anyway. That way, you don't piss him off and he doesn't share your product everywhere if he hasn't already.

Good luck,

Mark

Actually, the opposite is true. PayPal wants no part of protecting the seller or the buyer in a digital transaction. So, they do nothing. You have 2 choices:

1. Give the refund and avoid the buyer slamming you in all the scam forums.
2. Ignore it and it will go away by itself with no refund given.

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Joe Walter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mark Owens

This is something inevitable in a world like this.

It's very hard to win a dispute since Paypal almost always sides with the buyer as the item is intangible. I generally just ignore the dispute and then submit their email address to some CPA email submits :p

That's hillarious, I might just do that aswell! :p

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Well in my experience the transaction is not covered under seller or buyer protection because it is a digital item.

aside from the fact he is obviously scamming here Paypal now that you have escalated it will see the comments and the attempted blackmail and I highly doubt they would favor the buyer but as I said in my own personal experience Paypal does not cover digital transactions
-WD

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Last_Knight

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Mino

Well in my experience the transaction is not covered under seller or buyer protection because it is a digital item.

aside from the fact he is obviously scamming here Paypal now that you have escalated it will see the comments and the attempted blackmail and I highly doubt they would favor the buyer but as I said in my own personal experience Paypal does not cover digital transactions
-WD

True that.
Do you have his name, is he verified buyer/seller and where is he from?

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AFD

14 years ago

I already started submitting his email to CPA networks .. thank you

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Jeremy Kelsall 14 years ago

Originally Posted by AFD

I already started submitting his email to CPA networks .. thank you

lmmfao - haha, that is extreme! Funny none-the-less
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AFD

14 years ago

Yes, I will refund him but I will see what happens first... he should be ashamed of what he have done... I think he scammed many people with the same money he used to purchase my product... I call it...I think he also got a lot of clickbank products with such scamming activity..

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LetsGoViral

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AFD

Yes, I will refund him but I will see what happens first... he should be ashamed of what he have done... I think he scammed many people with the same money he used to purchase my product... I call it...I think he also got a lot of clickbank products with such scamming activity..

People like these do not get ashamed.

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lowjo 14 years ago

Originally Posted by LetsGoViral

People like these do not get ashamed.

Absolutely right, it is too bad but is a cost of doing business I guess.

Some people just live life that way and I wish them all the best because you really do reap what you sow....
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ivatel42

14 years ago

I wouldn't waste time on him he is probably a serial refunder. See how Paypal play this it will be interesting if you could feedback on their take on it.

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TristanPerry

14 years ago

I wouldn't refund him. I've won intangible asset disputes before (even if PayPal's rules on them are weird).

All you've got to do is provider proof that he's downloaded the e-book (by taking screenshots of your eJunkie control panel or whatever and providing the link to the screenshot in the dispute), provide any other information you have about the buyer, and then suggest that he's planned this all along (i.e. buy the product, download it twice, threaten the writer to try and get a refund hence a free product)

The PayPal dispute is usually checked by a real person, and so they'll hopefully have the sense to look at it, see that this person is trying to blackmail you, and award in your favour.

In short, fight it. Provide evidence. You can win the dispute.

The more people who fight these types of disputes, the less spammers and fraudsters there will be.

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AFD

14 years ago

@TrsiatnPerry

yes, that is exactly what I did... I provided ejunkie screenshot and sent it to paypal... I also provided screenshot of my sent email to him right after I received the dispute... My email got no response and instead, he keep on asking refund at PP resolution center... shows only he is not serious... I also provided screenshot of ejunkie email sent to him with download link... I am not expecting to win the dispute and keep his scam money... all I want is to let people know that people like should not be tolerated...

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jaiganeshv

14 years ago

Indian paypal users are facing now a very serious problem.

their accounts seems freezed now

not sure about complete information

Thank you.

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renu 14 years ago

Originally Posted by jaiganeshv

Indian paypal users are facing now a very serious problem.

their accounts seems freezed now

not sure about complete information

Thank you.

That's seems to be a general rule for paypal lately. I heard so many stories about frozen paypal accounts. That's why I try as much as I can to use 2checkout as they accept paypal payments.
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AFD 14 years ago

Originally Posted by jaiganeshv

Indian paypal users are facing now a very serious problem.

their accounts seems freezed now

not sure about complete information

Thank you.

Well, I have no idea about that details but I read it in verizon central the first day it came out of public... It might have been a coincidence but yes, he is from India...
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rajivkumar900 14 years ago

Originally Posted by jaiganeshv

Indian paypal users are facing now a very serious problem.

their accounts seems freezed now

not sure about complete information

Thank you.

Hi friend they havent freezed indians account if your account in negative balance then you cant do transations..i even dont know how paypal is working they have taken money back from my bank account but after 3 days they have returned money in my paypal account even gave me $11 extra..i am not able to find out why they have stopped the payment and why they have returned money with additional dollars....??????

they are doing foolish things but accounts are still in active status not freezed.
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dsmpublishing

14 years ago

Hi

If you dont want to pay him because of the way that he has treated you this is what you do....

Escalate it to a claim saying that you cant reach an agreement with the buyer
Then ring paypal up and say that its a none tangiable ebook and they will close it straight away in your favour because they dont do refunds from ebooks its against their terms and conditions.

Kind regards

sam
X

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Avdo

14 years ago

Originally Posted by dsmpublishing

Hi

If you dont want to pay him because of the way that he has treated you this is what you do....

Escalate it to a claim saying that you cant reach an agreement with the buyer
Then ring paypal up and say that its a none tangiable ebook and they will close it straight away in your favour because they dont do refunds from ebooks its against their terms and conditions.

Kind regards

sam
X

I've won a dispute today thanks to this advice..
Buyer didn't want a refund, but anyway he opened dispute saying that he hasn't received product, even I've sent him two emails with a download link..
It's strange that people are opening disputes with no desire for refund!!
WHY!!!

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AFD

14 years ago

Ha ha ha ha, the money was returned to e....

PayPal was not able to resolve the claim due to the item purchased being
virtual or intangible. As a result, PayPal has taken no action on either
account at this time. The fund will remain to the party where it was last delivered...

Thank you for your cooperation with our investigation.

Sincerely,
Christina
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

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NetInvestor

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AFD

Since the beginning of January until I posted this thread, I sold 138 copies of my ebook through ejunkie. I am glad that no one asked for a refund so far and I believe they are satisfied (not to mention a number of personal commendation I received).

Yesterday, I received a paypal dispute. The message included in the disputes says "the buyer did not received the product"

I immediately checked my ejunkie account and I found out the the buyer downloaded the product twice in separate occasions.

He also posted an additional message in PP dispute saying he did not like the product, he was expecting a black hat, he is very disappointed because he thinks that I ripped him, he also said the my product sucks, and he also said that if I will not agree with the dispute, he will distribute my product to other forums...

I am in real pain of thinking how bad this buyer is.... What an attitude...

I replied and apologized to him for not liking my product buy also told him that he should send me email first before filing a dispute... I also directed him to my return policy that shows 100% refund... but not in this way....

I am not interested with such small sum of money buy what makes me irate is his attitude....

let me know what to do... I escalated the dispute to paypal and provided all necessary evidence that he received the product and also forwarded his unethical and damaging words...

Any comment is highly appreciated....

BTW: Last year, I experienced the same case3 times all from the same country... These people are taking us for granted....

Just refund him and block him for future buys.

Thats what i do with this people...

Just because he´s crying out to post on forums etc.

Cheers,

patrick

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N4PGW

14 years ago

1. What is a CPA network? (as used above)
2. Paypal will always favor PayPal above any agreement with merchant or buyer. If the buyer reverses his CC payment, PayPal will get their money back from you. See their agreements. A Google will help you find a lawyer's interpretation of the agreement and you can see where PayPal's interest always overrides their customers.
3. You won the Paypal dispute but you owe the man a refund.
4. You are moving UP the ladder of success. Don't back down because some loser picks a fight. Consider this experience as a picture of things to come and be prepared to handle them quickly and effeciently.
5. 137 customers treated you well. Your time is better spent finding something else useful to your 137 customers rather than beating up on one who mistreated you.
6. Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and defeat you with experience. -- unless you are one too!

Just my not so humble opinion

Now, go take on the day

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Kay King 14 years ago

You won the paypal dispute but if he has contacted YOU about a refund - you should refund him as your product carries that promise.

If you want to feel like the bigger person, email him that you are refunding his purchase and would have sent it sooner had he contacted you directly rather than filing a "dispute".
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- halfpoint 14 years ago
  
  Give him a refund and block him from ever doing business with you again.
  
  When running an online business you're inevitably going to come across people like this so the best option is to honour your refund agreement and cut him off.
  
  You can fire your customers.
  
  This probably isn't the first time something like this has happened to you and it definitely won't be the last so give the refund, cut him off and move on.
  
  It's not worth doing anything more.
  
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AFD

14 years ago

Thanks for all the response... I already sent him email. I'm waiting for his response...I will not keep a disputed amount that could give me trouble (not with paypal) on other things... There is a big possibility that he will share my product to public if I will remain tough on him...he may also cry on public forums and whine that I scammed him. you know the reaction of the general public who don't know the real truth - they will surely believe in him... and I don't need to explain myself over and over again....returning his money back would end the argument...

Never argue with idiot

yes, this is funny but extremely true...

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pithu7

14 years ago

Yesterday, I received a paypal dispute. The message included in the disputes says "the buyer did not received the product"

I've experienced the same thing . You should submit proof of transaction to paypal.

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Marketstriker

14 years ago

"Bad buyers" is rather a statistical thing then an exception. I hate this kind of people, but I don't waste my time and efforts on them. Use these two things to earn more money, which will cover your expenses for this of kind buyers.

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rusanka

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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lisag 14 years ago

Originally Posted by rusanka

Човек не е застрахован и от недоволни купувачи макар, че продуктът е добър.

Translated: Man is not insured by disgruntled buyers though the product is good.
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A Bary 14 years ago

What reporting his email to CPA networks has to do with this?:confused::confused:

This is a PayPal seller/buyer dispute, what you achieve by reporting the person to CPA networks? And under what basis CPA networks accept your complaint about the buyers email address?
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GarrieWilson

14 years ago

I'd report his threat to PayPal. They might remove his account.

I would then remind him that that it's illegal to distribute it and if you see it being distributed, that you will sue him. And that you have proof thanks to his comments at PayPal.

Garrie

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sylviad

14 years ago

Well, if he claims to be dissatisfied with the product (because it's not black hat), clearly he did receive it.

If he's threatening to spread your product around, he'll probably do it anyway regardless of how you respond.

At best, protect your PayPal reputation and give him the refund. Then blacklist him so he can never buy from you again.

You already submitted your feedback to PP on this particular person. There's not much more you can do. He's not worth your time and worry.
Dump him as a customer and move on.

Sylvia

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kindsvater

14 years ago

While I'd normally agree with what Big Mike says on this thread, to provide a refund even if distasteful, the official PayPal dispute is that he did not receive the product. Since PayPal apparently, rightfully denied the claim, the PayPal issue is closed.

As for whether a refund should then be issued (assuming the request is made and not just assumed), that is initially a contractual issue according to the refund policy.

Here, the buyer is engaged in fraud, criminal extortion, and arguably defamed you by submitting false information to PayPal. Since there are always lots of unknown facts, especially here, this is not legal advice ---- It would be my position that the buyer is not entitled to a refund due to their initial breach of contract and/or breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

I've seen situations like this, and a response has been not only no refund, but that they should consult with a civil and criminal attorney before undertaking any of their threatened actions.

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Ken Strong

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Here, the buyer is engaged in fraud, criminal extortion, and arguably defamed you by submitting false information to PayPal. Since there are always lots of unknown facts, especially here, this is not legal advice ---- It would be my position that the buyer is not entitled to a refund due to their initial breach of contract and/or breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

You've got a point there, but I still think it's a counter-productive use of his time and a drag on his energy and mindset to spend all this effort thinking about this one transaction. I say refund, block, and move on.

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Kenster

14 years ago

Haha that is funny.

In general there will always always be buyers that dispute and want refunds. Its a part of life and you just have to learn to ignore them and move on. At the end of the day, if the guarantee gives you more sales than refunds, then its still worth it.

I used to take refunds to heart as well but have learned to jsut shurg them off. Then again you can also just submit their emails in submits like you said haha.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by AFD

Yesterday, I received a paypal dispute. The message included in the disputes says "the buyer did not received the product"... He also posted an additional message in PP dispute saying he did not like the product

Given the contradiction, PayPal should deny the dispute, and you should ask them to do so.

After the dispute is denied, give him a refund anyway. It's the principle of the thing, not the money.

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emigre

14 years ago

well how much is the ebook? I won't bother if it's less than $100. One refund out of 138 copies may also be not worth the hassle and isn't that bad at all.

I would just refund it and block the buyer if possible.

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Link Money

14 years ago

You have already wasted more time and money that this whole mess is worth.
Refund. Shut up about it but get even with him in other ways if it bothers you that much.
By the way what country?

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TVChatten

14 years ago

The thing with him is, though if he did receive his refund, he could still give your ebook away. He sounds like a really bad person and well, on the internet, that's just the way they are.

And to people who don't get about why they say submit it to CPA email submits, it's because they'd get a great load of junk email.

As the saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat

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NikNikAndCauliflower

14 years ago

Trust me, PayPal will find in your favour with a digital product.

I bought an e-course that was a bunch of crap, went to return it, the guy wouldn't refund the money (despite having a supposed 100% 'no questions asked' return policy), and so I disputed it.

Just because it was an 'intangible item', PayPal found in his favour. It's made me not want to buy anything online again (hopefully this guy was a once-off nickel and dime scammer)

Love
-Nick

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NikNikAndCauliflower

14 years ago

"Be that as it may, the real lesson here is that if you have a refund policy, then simply honor it in the first place"

True to the word. Please read this sentence everyone :-)

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