XSite Pro vs. Frontpage vs. Dreamweaver vs. Wordpress?

14 years ago

Ugh. I just read this : http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...AgTTGyhciHSH2l

I guess I have to learn wordpress. It seems so hard. Ugh

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SageSound

14 years ago

find a teenager to help show you the ropes.

The main choice is between a static web site where the pages are created on your desktop (eg, XSitePro, Dreamweaver, Frontpage) or with a simple editor (eg, what GoDaddy has) .... or a dynamic site, called a Content Management System, like Wordpress, Joomla, Mambo, phpNuke, etc.

For my money, Wordpress rules. Oh, and it's free.

You can have as many sites as you want. I avoid GoDaddy. I prefer HostGator.

-David

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esr

14 years ago

I've heard Go Daddy's hosting s*cks. Don't know from experience though.

However, for static web sites, I've always built them by hand. Way back in the day, I tried Front Page and hated it. I decided then that if I kept my skills up with the times, I'd never be dependent on a software program to make any changes to any website. I've been doing it for 13 years.

Wordpress, however, is an incredible tool for blogs. I've never built a website with it, don't even know if you can. But Wordpress, to me, isn't even in the same arena as all of the HTML editors I've tried and abandoned. And the fact that it's free? Forget about it!!!

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AidenChong

14 years ago

Boy oh boy...

The Oilman, I can feel your pain. 4 years ago when I first started, I was in the exact situation like you're in now.

I can do very simple page editing using Dreamweaver, but I don't like it. I tried XsitePro, it's simple to use, but I still don't like it.

Finally I tried to search for CMS (Content Management System). So I thought Joomla and Wordpress are good to go with.

Now, I think it's the best thing to get your feet wet using wordpress. It's too easy to set up (installing Wordpress with a few clicks if your hosting company support fantastico software within their system)..

You can set up as many wordpress system in a single domain. You can then find themes to use for free, you can find plugins to use, etc... If you are like me, not really a tech-savvy person, you might want to outsource this kind of techie things to someone else to install the system for you. It can be done within minutes. After that, what you need to do is just create pages after pages of content, and that's all. Wordpress is going to handle all the URLs and stuffs for you.

And yes, you can host several domains under an account, if your hosting company allows it. I was using a reseller account to do this, and it was just around $6 per month to do so.

Hope this is somehow going to help you out, my friend

Aiden Chong

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

I use Notepad, it's free too. Basic HTML is easier to learn than the programs most people use, IMHO. Of course, that's for static sites. If you want a blog...

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Lloyd Buchinski

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I use Notepad, it's free too. Basic HTML is easier to learn than the programs most people use, IMHO. Of course, that's for static sites. If you want a blog...

Seriously Impressed! I did my first site with Notepad but what a headache, and hard of the eyes by the time I finished. Shocked that anyone still uses it. That takes a work work work ethic, totally wide awake concentration, intelligence and a lot of that other upper class stuff.

Try Notepad++. It has light pastel background colors and it will give you clues when you are typing something that isn't valid. If you click on a start tag, it will highlight that tag and the matching end tag.

Just that alone has been a serious help. Just going through the </div> tags for a mismatched pair takes a few seconds with it.

The only negative compared to notepad is that they had to go with a 4 syllable name. I get around that by calling it notepad and calling the MS item notepad minus minus. (don't mind me. some days it doesn't take a lot to amuse me.)

As mentioned already Frontpage is pretty much dead, but the new MS program is really good. Expression Web.

It has an emphasis on valid code which is a complete turnaround for MS. Anything that is in your sheet that is not valid will have a light highlight and on hover will have a comment about why.

Xsp has a nice advantage in that it can set up a rss page for a static site. A serious disadvantage is problems importing and exporting sites. I haven't used it because of this.

One poster was asking how you could import an xsp site into another editor and the answer he got was that you couldn't. I don't know for sure if that's true but the thread got about 5 replies and no one argued with that.

I realize this is almost a Wordpress forum, but don't want to use it myself. Recently bought a beautiful domain name from someone whose blog was hacked. I can do my own rss feed, seo and that sort of stuff thank you.

With blogs most of the attacks are not something your host can prevent. Security is up to you.

best wishes, lloyd
.......__o
.......\<,
....( )/ ( )...

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BillyBee 14 years ago

I'm going through this now myself! I've decided to try WordPress, and since I don't care to become frustrated with tech things, I'm looking to pay someone to erect the basic design from a template I like, leaving me with the ability to add content and pages and remain in control. Seems like a good compromise solution.
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Loren Woirhaye

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski

One poster was asking how you could import an xsp site into another editor and the answer he got was that you couldn't. I don't know for sure if that's true but the thread got about 5 replies and no one argued with that.

Other editors do not work natively with XSP files because
XSP produces a master CSS stylesheet every time you
publish with it - the feature cannot, I believe, be turned
off. What you do is publish to a desktop folder, delete
the CSS file, and then you can use your own stylesheets -
if both your custom stylesheet and the XSP stylesheet
are on a server, XSP ignores the custom sheet.

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BillyBee 14 years ago

Doesn't Site Build It have a way to put up websites? Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on them?
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T.R. McCarroll 14 years ago

Wordpress for sure ... and about a million free and paid templates to use straight up or modify. Cuts the "getting a site" to about 1 hour ...
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Luffe

14 years ago

Personally i recommend learning wordpress. Its so easy to publish content that is extremely seo friendly.

But then again, Wordpress is a script, and the others are html editors. And if you want to make custom templates for wordpress sites, you still need to learn html.

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ShaneRQR

14 years ago

WordPress is super-easy to use, in my opinion. And I don't have any coding experience.

For static websites, I recommend using an editor like Nvu to make the job a little bit easier.

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teddyspears 14 years ago

XSitePro = Great, fast and SEO is great.

Frontpage = old, out dated and poo

Dreamweaver = Great, but complicated. You need to know how to use it

Wordpress = Good blogging platform, but you still need to make a website somehow (See above)

I hope that helps.
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tonyburr 14 years ago

I guess, to answer the original question it depends on your technical expertise. There are a few posts here from people who are clearly a lot more experienced technically than others which is fine.

For them ;-)

It also really depends on what you want to do. First off I'd rate XSP over FP evey day of the week - no contest there, but I think everyone agrees on that.

As for Wordpress, WP is fine if you want a blog but you rarely see blogs turning up at the top of the SERPs for major niche searches. Try it for yourself and see how many of the top sites returned are built with WP. That always puts me off WP as a serious site building tool.

I know from having used both, that WP is a complete headache when it comes to getting the theme right (I just don't have time to mess about with all the template files) so for me, to get a good quality site up and running quickly without the fuss, XSitePro does it for me every time.

Tony
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- sylviad 14 years ago
  
  Hi,
  
  FrontPage has a learning curve - I've been using it since it's early days when it was more difficult. Now, it has been discontinued by MS. So you can forget FP.
  
  I've heard that Dreamweaver is very popular, but expensive and time consuming to learn.
  
  I'm now doing more sites with Wordpress set up on my own host, unless I'm building a specific page for something. Then I head back to FP.
  
  What I like about the newer versions of Wordpress is the Page option. Before, you could only make posts. Now you can create Pages with navigation buttons on the top, just like in a traditional web site.
  
  It really depends what you want to do with it. You can do a lot with Wordpress, but for some things, you'll probably need a traditional site, which means learning one of those Editing programs.
  
  Oh. And there are some free editing programs online that you can download. Sorry I don't have any links to give you, but it has been mentioned here on the Forum before, so you might find info if you search.
  
  As far as domains go, you can easily get an account under one domain, with sub-domain capability. Then, you can just add new domains under the main one and set them up so they can be accessed as individual domains (as opposed to being a sub-domain URL, ie: www.yoursite.com/yourothersite.com/
  
  Any host service can help you set those up. It's not difficult, but it's good to have the support when you can't figure it out.
  
  Hope this helps.
  
  Sylvia
  
  PS: Overall, you'll probably find that Wordpress is the easiest to learn. Once you get it all set up, it's simple to add new pages and posts. Maybe you're just a bit overwhelmed.
  
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magneticweb

14 years ago

I've switched most of my sites to WordPress, but, as has been said here, the problem is getting the heading image you want, or alternatively a theme you like. In addition, as tonyburr says, there may be an issue for WordPress sites not being found much at the top of the SERPS.

XSitePro has a lot of people recommending it, so what I will probably do is to get myself a copy and make most of my sites have a standard HTML home page built with XSP, and then a link to the blog, where I can post articles and information.

The problem then will be to make the blog look like the home page as far as possible.

Having said all that, I can't help feeling blogs are the way of the future, and it won't be long before the only HTML web sites left are owned by large corporations and public bodies with large budgets.

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KenThompson

14 years ago

Hey Oilman...

I was shocked to read your confession, here.

I've been using Evrsoft's First Page (2006) for a long time. I'm
used to it, but I can also code by hand and from scratch. So that
does make some difference, I guess. I actually don't like wysiwyg
editor's, even though EFP has one in it. I never use it.

Oh, EFP is free.

You can also check-out Coffee Cup. It has a wysiwyg editor, and I
think it's a decent quality s/w.

Just bite the bullet and start learning. Ain't hard!

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Tony Hetherington

14 years ago

I have to stromgly disagree - Wordpress is easy if you take a logical approach.

For static htmal pages I use the free NVU

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DogScout

14 years ago

WordPress, Blogger or Typepad

For simple HTML sites, I hear Xsitepro is OK, but no personal experience with it

Frontpage? Forget it. Too much added code and crap extensions. If you use without the extensions as an editor only, it is not half bad.

DreamWeaver? -NEVER!! 1st, the code is HUGE! A nav bar alone is larger than whole sites I've seen! With Google looking closer at load time, this is death.
-Also, the learning curve is high.
-then the creme De la creme: it comes complete with DMCA spy-ware. It connects to Adobe's server to check the license and Abode always knows when you are using it. (I doubt they keep track of what you are doing, but they could.) It slows down a resource challenged computer, sometimes to the point of freezing and losing all your work.
-Last, it is unreasonably expensive. I once bought it, but it did not live up to the price. Most expensive crap I have ever bought, (and I have bought a lot of crap!)

Mark

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John Romaine

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

DreamWeaver? -NEVER!! 1st, the code is HUGE! A nav bar alone is larger than whole sites I've seen! With Google looking closer at load time, this is death.

Perhaps, If you're working in design view drag and drop mode. Learn to understand what is taking place in the actual code, or better still LEARN the code.

Originally Posted by DogScout

-Also, the learning curve is high.

So is Adobe Photoshop, but this doesnt mean the software is rubbish.

Originally Posted by DogScout

-then the creme De la creme: it comes complete with DMCA spy-ware. It connects to Adobe's server to check the license and Abode always knows when you are using it. (I doubt they keep track of what you are doing, but they could.) It slows down a resource challenged computer, sometimes to the point of freezing and losing all your work.

They have such systems in place to prevent piracy, which in my opinion is a good thing. They also clearly specify system requirements, which should be considered before buying.

Originally Posted by DogScout

-Last, it is unreasonably expensive. I once bought it, but it did not live up to the price. Most expensive crap I have ever bought, (and I have bought a lot of crap!)

This is dependant upon what you intend on using it for. Theres no point buying it if you plan on building simple 5 page static HTML sites. If you want to do that, get a freebie editor. Dreamweaver for me, within my web development business is a very reliable and efficient tool.

Ive been using Dreamweaver for over 10 years so I think I have the experience to say, its great software, but its not for everyone.

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Loren Woirhaye

14 years ago

Unless you are willing to learn to read some PHP
and dig into the stylesheets, you'll be stuck using
Wordpress themes as they come.

I use both XsitePro (on which I can work pretty
quick) and Wordpress.

The advantage of XSP is you can use a WYSIWYG
system to overlay tables on your header for
floating opt-in boxes and things. I can build
sites from scratch with it pretty quick too. It
really requires no knowledge of CSS because the
engine that builds the site for you creates the
CSS.

Wordpress, if you want to play with the way it
looks, demands you learn how to read and edit
more complex code than XSP.

I've learned lots from using both platforms.

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DogScout

14 years ago

Originally Posted by The Oilman

I also do not know anything about hosting or anything. Can I host 5 websites (with different domains) all with the same host? Is this hard to rig up?
.

You can host all the domains on one account. Make folders for each, being sure to add noindex that folder in your root robots text so the sites don't have multiple paths. Then there are 12 ways to make each folder become it's own domain. You can use .HTACCESS or if you are hosting at GoDaddy, just import all the domains in your hosting control and aim each one to the folder you set up for it.
DO NOT also forward the domain in the domain manager, just make sure the name servers are the same as the main account.
Then in each account, you need to add instructions to the server to NOT show the full path... IE http://mymaindomain.com/myfolderforadifferentdomain/.
The same code that combines all inquiries to either to www or non www, which you should be using anyway in the HTACCESS file in each folder will double as preventing the wrong path showing in the address bar.

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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

I am always confused when comparing apples and oranges...

Frontpage and Dreamweaver are HTML editors. Should be comparable with Frst Page, Kompozer, NVU(?) and similar editors.

WordPress is a publishing system - if you want to be fancy: a Content Management System (CMS). Comparable with other CMS, like Joomla, Drupal etc.

I never used XSitePro but watching their demo video it looks like a website building wizard. Have no idea what to compare with... not big in this field.

I hand code static sites with PSPad and use WP for dynamic sites. Sometimes I also use sNews for smaller sites.

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DogScout

14 years ago

Johnny, PS is rubbish! Over priced crap that they pay universities to teach so design companies have to buy it because it is all new employees know how to use. There is so much more powerful programs that do so much more at a tenth the price without spyware if you take the time to look.

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John Romaine

14 years ago

Honestly I think this debate is pointless. Its been covered in here so many times, its not funny.

Personally I think if you dont have any development knowledge, stick with a CMS like Joomla or Wordpress.

If you have the skills to develop complex sites, then use a more comprehensive editor like Dreamweaver or a comparible application.

Ive lost count of the amount of clients that have all said to me "Oh Im going to buy Dreamweaver, so that I can edit and build my own pages, can you show me how to do it...?" like it can be covered in a 5 line email.

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DogScout

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

Honestly I think this debate is pointless. Its been covered in here so many times, its not funny.

Personally I think if you dont have any development knowledge, stick with a CMS like Joomla or Wordpress.

If you have the skills to develop complex sites, then use a more comprehensive editor like Dreamweaver or a comparible application.

Ive lost count of the amount of clients that have all said to me "Oh Im going to buy Dreamweaver, so that I can edit and build my own pages, can you show me how to do it...?" like it can be covered in a 5 line email.

Yep pointless.
I can use notepad and code a page from scratch as good as Dreameaver looks (I can build a whole site that way -have a 700 page site built from scratch that way that gets 50,000+ unique hits a month- with CSS and Java too) and I use a graphic program that cost me $65 that does everything PS does except distort fonts in some ways. It will in others. I can write graphic altering code as well. So I am not comepletly code illiterate. Lol. I do get the politics of Adobe. I have talked to them and their lawyers several times and when you get them to go off the record, they know what they are doing and admit everything I said. But if you have been using them for ten years successfully , who am I to argue?

Mark

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John Romaine

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

Yep pointless.
I can use notepad and code a page from scratch as good as Dreameaver looks (I can build a whole site that way -have a 700 page site built from scratch that way that gets 50,000+ unique hits a month- with CSS and Java too) and I use a graphic program that cost me $65 that does everything PS does except distort fonts in some ways. It will in others. I can write graphic altering code as well. So I am not comepletly code illiterate. Lol. I do get the politics of Adobe. I have talked to them and their lawyers several times and when you get them to go off the record, they know what they are doing and admit everything I said. But if you have been using them for ten years successfully , who am I to argue?

Mark

Each to their own Mark. What you might hate, I might love, and vice versa. Still, I couldnt imagine dredging my way through a notepad file to write a site that consists of several thousand pages all plugged into an SQL Server DB.

No thanks.

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DogScout

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

Each to their own Mark. What you might hate, I might love, and vice versa. Still, I couldnt imagine dredging my way through a notepad file to write a site that consists of several thousand pages all plugged into an SQL Server DB.

No thanks.

Several Thousand pages? That right there is a problem, would take forever to load. Lol. *** sorry I missed you said site, not page, my mistake*** Anyway, It is really easy after you get the hang of it. No 'dredging' involved. Lol. Moving on...
Mark

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John Romaine

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

Several Thousand pages? That right there is a problem, would take forever to load. Lol. *** sorry I missed you said site, not page, my mistake*** Anyway, It is really easy after you get the hang of it. No 'dredging' involved. Lol. Moving on...
Mark

Maybe you're just not long sighted like me --->

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DogScout 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ramone_johnny

Maybe you're just not long sighted like me --->

My arms got too short to read 15 years ago. LMAO.

PS-You know Joey Atlas?
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- John Romaine 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DogScout
  
  My arms got too short to read 15 years ago. LMAO.
  
  PS-You know Joey Atlas?
  
  No dude, sorry.
  
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Lambert Klein

14 years ago

I've used XsitePro in the past but haven't in a while. I didn't like the looks.

Now I use wordpress and Dreamweaver.

Been using Dreamweaver for many years. If you don't mind learning how to use it you will have more control over how your sites look and works.

Lambert

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BillyBee

14 years ago

Originally Posted by lklein

I've used XsitePro in the past but haven't in a while. I didn't like the looks.

Now I use wordpress and Dreamweaver.

Been using Dreamweaver for many years. If you don't mind learning how to use it you will have more control over how your sites look and works.

Lambert

What would you say is the best way to learn Dreamweaver? I'd like to learn it in the fastest way possible.

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John Romaine 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BillyBee

What would you say is the best way to learn Dreamweaver? I'd like to learn it in the fastest way possible.

Question is....

Do you want to be an internet marketer or a web developer?

There is a significant difference, especially in terms of earnings.
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- BillyBee 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ramone_johnny
  
  Question is....
  
  Do you want to be an internet marketer or a web developer?
  
  There is a significant difference, especially in terms of earnings.
  
  Johnny, this is a great point! I have to remember that.
  
  Thanks
  
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  John Romaine 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BillyBee
  
  Johnny, this is a great point! I have to remember that.
  
  No worries dude.
  
  Seriously, one of THE biggest lessons Ive learnt is this.
  
  If you want to make money online, DONT WASTE YOUR TIME trying to LEARN to do EVERYTHING yourself.
  
  I wasted a good 6 years learning ASP, .NET, VBScript, Javascript, HTML, website design, usability, database modelling, SQL, stored procedures, SEO, and so on BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD TO.
  
  I then started attending Internet Marketing seminars and began meeting successful marketers WHO KNEW NOTHING ABOUT PROGRAMMING, yet they were making thousands of dollars a month! They simply outsourced everything to IDIOTS like me for $20 an hour!
  
  DO YOU GET MY POINT!!!????
  
  Be a BUSINESS PERSON, not a tech head. Remember its the big boss that sits in the air conditioned office upstairs in his $2,000 italian leather recliner chair that makes the big $$$. Not the workers on the floor.
  
  I hope you get my point
  
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smak 14 years ago

I have been using xsite pro for 2 years now.

It does the job well and allows you to add many elements to your webpage. Also integrates with other service providers like aweber and getresponse if u r putting up a optin form.

Big problem is when u r importing pages that are created other webdesign platform like say dreamweaver - Xsite just doesn't like it and the site comes out looking all messy when imported. AND thats why whenever I want a site designed by graphics team, I stress the point that I want all finished works in Xsite pro format so no issues when importing into xsite.

I particlularly like the ftp function.
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Lambert Klein 14 years ago

Originally Posted by BillyBee

What would you say is the best way to learn Dreamweaver? I'd like to learn it in the fastest way possible.

Hmmm, you could do a web search: Here's a couple I just found:

Dreamweaver Tutorials

Web Design Tutorials - SmartWebby's Web Design Guide

Sure there are better ones out there if you search.

Lambert
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Shane Hale

14 years ago

Wordpress for Blog and traffic building. I like Xsite Pro for building Squeeze pages. Dreamweaver is great. If you are strapped on cash there is a Free Gui WYSIWYG called NVU which is awesome too.

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

WP *all the way*. You can always mod templates and change stuff around, i have not seen ONE use where i cannot use WP. It does all what XSP does and about a zillion other things more. Seriously, no comparison.

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DogScout

14 years ago

Met him in Perry Marshall's MMC, I thought since he was in one of your niches, (or I guessed to be one of your niches) that you had run in to him.

Got to go and sit in my $2000.00 leather chair now

... later

Mark

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John Romaine

14 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

Got to go and sit in my $2000.00 leather chair now

... later

Nice, later

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski

Seriously Impressed! I did my first site with Notepad but what a headache, and hard of the eyes by the time I finished. Shocked that anyone still uses it. That takes a work work work ethic, totally wide awake concentration, intelligence and a lot of that other upper class stuff.

Try Notepad++. It has light pastel background colors and it will give you clues when you are typing something that isn't valid. If you click on a start tag, it will highlight that tag and the matching end tag.

Been coding that way for 13 years. Every now and then I try something else but always end up going back to Notepad. I have Dreamweaver because I bought CS4, tried other html editors as well, along with other text editors. I'm like a system unto myself, and trying other stuff slows down the system.

Really, if you create a template and create all your pages from the template, all you're doing is adding content to the main section of the page whenever you create a new one. That's usually little more than pasting in the content and adding a few paragraph and heading tags.

The footer, navigation, and side bar content is all SSI based. If I have the content written, making a new page doesn't take much longer than it does for Dreamweaver to load. It's all very simple...and very fast.

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Danny Turner

14 years ago

I'm stating to use wordpress for my sites - as well as the advantages mentioned - being able to edit from any computer/anywhere is a huge plus
try the atahualpa theme - it makes customisation pretty easy

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