What's the best WP theme framework ...

26 replies
...that uses the child theme approach and does not require hard coding?
Which one are you using, and why?

I am about to embark on using Wordpress from now on and my main findings over the last few weeks are as follows:

-I don't want to limited by 'regular' Wordpress Themes that do not allow design and style customization.

-Even those themes that do allow some modifications (i.e. Woothemes Canvas) have their limitations

EDIT: sorry...I took longer than expected to post this...it is 4am here now and I need to go and sleep for a couple of hours...so please don't be mad at me for checking back in the morning...

-Using instead a Theme framework that acts as the parent theme and works in conjunction with child themes appears to be a much better concept, even though it took me a while to understand what that means. It seems a better approach mainly because the core functionality lies in the parent theme while the design and style modifications are applied on the child theme. This makes frequent upgrades of the framework much easier as it does not put your work at risk. (if you haven't heard of this concept, you can also check out this article or just google it).

-However, it seems while most solutions may have option panels and a nice UI, they still seem to require some hard coding (CSS and PHP) for simple things where you'd think that this could be automated. THESIS comes to mind (that many appear to be using) - I checked out Brian Clark's video on their main site and while the initial modifications appeared really simple, at some point things needed manual coding in the functions.php file, etc.

While I understand HTML, which is useful for adding/tweaking things every once in a while, I am really not inclined to tap into a programming language for the sake of making some of these simple changes (i.e. in the Thesis video, Brian even entered manual codes for adding link hover functions and repositioning the nav menu from under the headline to above the headline.
This to me is not what I want in designing my own websites easily and quickly (and with FUN!) and getting on with all there is to Internet Marketing.

Some I came across:

Themehybrid - using child theme concept also, but I am not sure if creating or further customizing child themes require coding, or not

Builder by iTheme - using child themes, appears very user friendly with graphical user interface and option panels and no hard coding required as far as I understand. They also have a preview window of some sort, once you have your basic layout. However, with them I don't like the fact that you only get 1 year free upgrade and support and then need to pay full price again if you want another year's worth of upgrades and support.

Frugeltheme - not using child theme concept but skins (similar but not the same)

Headway - not sure actually if they use child themes but they are pretty much wysiwyg via a Visual Layout Editor. While I think it is a good idea to have a preview window (as compared to having to save and refresh the live site after each change), I am not sure if I like their editor.


The bottomline for me is:

-I want as much customization as possible
-Most if not all of the modifications should be able to be made using option panels and no coding
-The framework (acting as parent theme) should be stable, continuously maintained, updated/upgraded in line with general developments (WP etc)

From what I have seen so far, Frugaltheme actually appeals to me most, even when they do not use child themes in the strictest sense.

I know there are many other theme frameworks out there, some free and some to buy....so which one did you pick and why?


EDIT: pls don't be mad at me...but I need to have a nap now...it's 4am here..! Creating this post took me longer than expected
#framework #theme
  • Profile picture of the author RealExpert
    Thesis is very flexible theme and is being used by the heavy weights. Brian Clark of copyblogger.com is a partner with DIYThemes.com (the official website of Thesis theme).

    You will need to know CSS and PHP to customize it but you can tweak it to your heart's content. If you wanted to make it look like say a particular Wootheme look, you may have to ask for someone's help who is good with creating thesis skins.

    There are few thesis skins available on the market. Google them and you will find plenty.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
      Originally Posted by RealExpert View Post

      Thesis is very flexible theme...
      You will need to know CSS and PHP to customize it but you can tweak it to your heart's content.
      Yeah, well that's what I found out also...and trying to avoid.
      I don't want to having to use code in order to make these simple ordinary changes (see video demo I mentioned on Thesis' website).

      So Thesis is out for me I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
    ...I forgot to mention Genesis (Studiopress), another framework theme as of late. However, I am missing a fair bit of information on their website as to the features. The demos of their child themes all lead to dead links and there are no videos on their website.

    I heard lots of people saying good things about them, but I think their website may not do them any justice?

    Any experience or opinions?

    Is Genesis in conjunctions with child themes easy to use?
    Any hard coding required here?
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      I always use Atahualpa. You can customise everything. With the new version you even export the settings to use on another site.

      It's a blank canvas that you can use to design any style of website you like. PM me if you'd like to see some examples.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
        Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

        I always use Atahualpa. You can customise everything. With the new version you even export the settings to use on another site.

        It's a blank canvas that you can use to design any style of website you like. PM me if you'd like to see some examples.
        Hi there, yes I came across Atahualpa only yesterday...it is on my list of theme frameworks I wanted to check out...I have also seen your posts and will investigate further. Thankyou!
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      • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
        Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

        I always use Atahualpa. You can customise everything. With the new version you even export the settings to use on another site.

        It's a blank canvas that you can use to design any style of website you like. PM me if you'd like to see some examples.
        Originally Posted by Rolliesworld View Post

        Hi there, yes I came across Atahualpa only yesterday...it is on my list of theme frameworks I wanted to check out...I have also seen your posts and will investigate further. Thankyou!
        Hi again, I have sent you a PM (split into two separate ones)

        @Everyone: Anyone using Atahualpa with lots of joy and ease?
        I'd be interested to see some sites.

        @Everyone: Who is using Genesis (Studiopress)? Where can I find more info - their info on their website seems limited with no video demonstrations and only limited screenshots. Their SEO options (see here and here) seem like a drop in the bucket compared to some other themes (check out video on iTheme's Builder SEO plugin for instance, which apparently will soon be part of the core framework)
        How does Atahualpa's SEO options (recently upgraded, I heard) stack up to what you can see with iTheme's Builder, or also Frugaltheme?

        @Everyone: How do you find the other theme frameworks I pointed out in my OP? Who is using what? What's good to use without CSS/PHP hard coding?

        Edit: I am disappointed about Studiopress lack of response - the only way to contact them without violating their terms (as in not to register and submit to their forum as non-members), is via their webform. I picked PRE-SALES from their drop-down menu and submitted an enquiry two days ago, with no reply whatsoever. That says a lot..
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    I'm using Blogging Themes at Free WordPress Blog Themes and they are all quite impressive and easily customizable. My graphic designer at the same time does a great job for me to manage my web development and my blog will speak for itself: Internet Business Podcasts | Internet Business Profit Resources | Weekly Business Expert Podcasts

    Alternatively, this could be your alternative:

    http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009...nt-frameworks/
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    • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
      Hi Tyron,

      thanks for your reply. Nice website you got, using a free theme that you have had customized. Are you not concerned how a WP upgrade may affect your site if it is not running off of a theme framework? Or are you not upgrading, just using the WP version at the time of the theme release?

      Thanks also for the article, I did come across this the other day but actually lost track of it ...
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    I actually require my graphic designer to do the upgrading but I don't have the exact idea how he navigates everything all in one place. Well, that's the reason I outsource this much technical and creative side of things.

    You're welcome though and I'm glad you liked my blog!
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
    I've used Thesis and I like it.

    Though it was tough to get around in the beginning, it's become pretty easy now.
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  • Profile picture of the author christopherNV
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
      You might want to look at Artisteer, which is a template generation program rather than a single theme.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
        Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

        You might want to look at Artisteer, which is a template generation program rather than a single theme.
        Hi, thanks for mentioning this but I will give Artisteer a miss. It produces horrendous coding under the surface. I have seen some sites that were generated using this program but once you have a look under the hood (source code)...! Many fellow warriors have also raised similar concerns.
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        • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
          Originally Posted by Rolliesworld View Post

          Hi, thanks for mentioning this but I will give Artisteer a miss. It produces horrendous coding under the surface. I have seen some sites that were generated using this program but once you have a look under the hood (source code)...! Many fellow warriors have also raised similar concerns.
          It's not really that bad, considering what you get. It could be cleaner and certainly isn't as clean as something hand coded, which is what most of the "fellow warriors" who "raised similar concerns" are trying to sell you.
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          • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
            Is it really so hard to have a them that can EASILY post categories to a certain PAGE one would link together?

            Post with a category selection of Blue Widgets - goes to the Page named - Blue Widgets

            Red Widgets category posts appear only on the Red Widgets Page.

            why is this not a default ... what am I missing?
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    • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
      Originally Posted by christopherNV View Post

      The problem with this post and the OP is you keep referring to things as simple and easy and are yet unwilling or unable to make the changes yourself. Never assume something is simple or easy unless you can do it yourself.
      The "problem" is that you are making a lot of assumptions my friend that are unfounded. I never said that I was "unwilling or unable" to make changes to a theme. Likewise, I never said that I was unwilling to put a lot of work into anything to make it work. How can you say this? What I did say is that some themes are easy to customize, using option panels only and others seem to require additional coding even for simple things like changing the position of a nav menu or changing the link hover (i.e. Thesis) .... which I find much better solved in other themes. The purpose of my post is to see if others have experience with some of the themes (theme frameworks) I quoted, or others I may not have encountered yet and that allow flexible customization options via option panels in a nice UI.

      Originally Posted by christopherNV View Post

      You're never going to find an all-in-one out-of-the-box solution that looks and works exactly how you want it. That is why people pay to have custom built websites.
      I think you have either not read my post or completely misunderstood...in no way am I looking for what you refer to as an "all-in-one out-of-the-box solution" nor do I have the expectation that all I would need to do is clicking three buttons to get results that I will be satisfied with.

      Originally Posted by christopherNV View Post

      Your understanding of child themes vs. regular themes is a bit off. With a child theme you're still stuck with the (child) theme that was developed. A child theme offers (you) no more design and style customization than a regular wordpress theme does. If you want customization, your only solution is to buy more child themes. Yes, developers are looking to make a buck too.
      Again, what you are saying is completely wrong. With a child theme you are NOT "stuck" with the design and style...that is one of the main purposes of using child themes within a theme framework, i.e. that you can further customize it, independently from the parent theme and upgrades of the parent theme (framework) will not affect your modifications done to the child theme. Have you read the material I referred to in my post?

      Please do you homework before making all these assumptions.
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  • Profile picture of the author yianni
    my vote is thesis theme
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Do you need a license to use it on as many sites as possible?

    If you need professional (and fairly unique) designs, it's hard to beat WordPress Themes, HTML Templates - ThemeForest

    You can chose a design that most suits your project.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Do you need a license to use it on as many sites as possible?

      If you need professional (and fairly unique) designs, it's hard to beat WordPress Themes, HTML Templates - ThemeForest

      You can chose a design that most suits your project.
      Hi Melanie - thanks for your reply. I had a brief look and also did a search on their site via category and using the term 'customizable' in the search field...but wasn't sure about the resulting themes that came up.

      I am not really looking for a theme as such, rather than a theme framework solution, that allows me to build my own themes and site designs from scratch, or (to get a head start) use child themes (or skins) that can be further customized with as many flexible options as possible.

      There are a number of 'regular Wordpress themes' that can still be customized (for instance: Canvas by Woothemes), yet the styling settings are all stored in their respective theme options, which means upgrading can be much more difficult as you risk losing your modifications. In contrast, using themes (child themes or skins) in conjunction with theme frameworks your modifications/customizations would be save as they are stored in the child theme/skin. These are powerful advantages, and as WP evolves the theme you are using should be updated and upgraded also.

      I have heard of many people struggling with upgrading their themes as it is a manual process and you need to know which file goes where and what to backup. Apparently, using this concept makes it idiot proof.

      I still might use one or the other regular theme in the future for a quick site, but at the moment I am looking into the "better" solution.

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  • Profile picture of the author markament
    Thesis is what I use all the time. I love it. But you do have to get into the CSS sometimes. Another one I recently heard about that is getting some rave reviews from internet marketers is a theme called "socrates"
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    • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
      Originally Posted by markament View Post

      Thesis is what I use all the time. I love it. But you do have to get into the CSS sometimes. Another one I recently heard about that is getting some rave reviews from internet marketers is a theme called "socrates"
      Hi Mark, wow another Thesis user ... they really seem to have a huge fan base. Never heard of Socrates ... I must have missed one of Joel Comm's emails...checking it out, sounds interesting for a quick site.
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  • Profile picture of the author pyles
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  • Profile picture of the author Dietriffic
    Okay.

    In that case, you might want to look at http://themeshaper.com/thematic/

    It's free, too
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    • Profile picture of the author Rolliesworld
      Originally Posted by Dietriffic View Post

      Okay.

      In that case, you might want to look at http://themeshaper.com/thematic/

      It's free, too
      Yip...on my 'research' list...
      And also Themehybrid - also free.

      Anyone using either and could comment on user 'friendliness'
      (avoiding the term 'easy' from now on, it seems to upset a few)
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    • Profile picture of the author Byrt M
      Melanie
      I don't mean to hijack the thread but thanks for the headsup on Themeshaper - I will check it out.
      Thanks
      Byrt
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  • Profile picture of the author jcomm
    We tried to make Socrates the definitive theme for marketers, adding all the features that we personally want in a theme. Check it out --> Socrates Premium Wordpress Theme - The Logical Choice for Niche Bloggers and Marketers

    Joel
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